As someone who has worked on a few museum ships, and dealt with at least one incident where we had to disconnect and then reconnect shore power, I can tell you a couple of things. 1) Once the ship powers on, any lights that were last left in the “on” position will normally come back up. In a situation where things are computer controlled, it’s simply “restore to previous state.” 2) There are *always* lights left on in various compartments. Some are emergency lights, and cannot be turned off if the ship has power. If those lights go out it means that your ship has neither internal nor external power and you’d better be getting into a lifeboat. 3) Ships change as they age, externally as well as internally. The USS Intrepid (CVS-11), Yorktown (CVS-10) and Hornet (CVS-12) all came out of the yard looking similar. They also all had the same set of refits, at different times. All three are now visibly different from their earlier incarnations as well as each other, even at a distance.
Yes, I'm also willing to excuse any differences on the stardrive section because it's not the Enterprise -- there is nothing that requires USS Syracuse or any other Galaxy class to be identical. It would be amusing to see mismatched registries and vessel names on the donor stardrive section.
Not actually what's said. Geordi only says the engine and nacelles are from the Syracuse. It's entirely possible that all the "large" pieces of the superstructure were salvaged at the same time as the saucer, since he did say it was done to clean up the system. It would explain why it took decades for him to piece it back together. Having gone back and rewatched the scene in Generations, the engines breach with a double flash and between that and the shockwave, most of the drive section is obscured beyond the obvious explosion at main engineering. The Warp drive was obviously unsalvagable, and that extending to the nacelles makes sense. Depending on how the Syracuse went out of service, those might have been the only parts worth using.
Either way the discrepancies can be explained by the passage of time it's the simple fact of the matter I've always been a fan of the six filming model from the original series I thought it was the most elegant sculpted graceful looking ship I feel like aesthetically they should have stuck with that Andy Probert had told iom when they were making the model he did not want it to be 6 ft more like half that because he knew principal photography would be complicated from it it was a very wide very heavy model and thus there was the 4-footer then there was shape and design changes they made and then finally CG and now we have mismatched Aesthetics personally I think the one in season 3 the card is faithful it is and wonderful tribute and it works it has the best elements of both and it will be the definitive iconronic version going forward
@@lovipoekimo176 fun fact to we also don't know when the Uso Syracuse was constructed I don't think it was of the original batch of galaxy-class Starships as it wasn't mentioned or reference in the series but who knows but as it is they have established the USA Syracuse as being the donor ship of its star driving warp engines so that the enterprise-d could live once more I mean and that shouldn't be a surprise given the fact that even in modern-day military Tech parts are supposed to be interchangeable I see nothing out of the ordinary from taking of viable saucer and a working stardrive and mating them together
After seeing the sneak peak of episode 10 I'm pretty convinced that, besides the cast budget, everything else went to the D. The close fly-by shot looked amazing! Perhaps the best I've ever seen the D since the filming miniature.
I don't know why they can't make the Enterprise-C concept a different starship class. It looks very modern and more graceful than most of these newer classes.
That is because the design lineage of Star Trek is now an absolute mess. Things were pretty consistent right up to the End of DS9 and Voyager. The rot started when the producers of Star Trek: Enterprise insisted that the hero ship should look like the Akira Class. A ship from 2 centuries later in the shows timeline. Since Kurtzman took over it has just been a CGI nightmare. The ship designs alternate between pleasing fans (the new Excelsior and other TMP era rip-offs) and royally pissing them off (any ship from Discovery). They really ruined 40 years of fairly consistent design work. Other than fan bitching I think that is a shame. The consistency added to the verisimilitude of the show.
@@hastekulvaati9681 I think the biggest problem was really that they wanted to do a prequel show, but with sequel tech. Ignoring Enterprise, Discovery SHOULD have been set post-nemesis, and there wasn't a huge reason for it not to be. It wouldn't have given us Strange New Worlds, but it would have kept things consistent!
Rounded windows is more believable from an engineering standpoint. The first jet aircraft the de Havilland Comet had square windows, but the repeated pressurization of the cabin caused micro fractures in the air-frame around the sharp points of the window. So that is why aircraft windows today are all rounded corners. There is a lot of force pressed on them when flying at 40,000 feet but a cabin pressure at 6,000 feet. Now imagine these ships with a cabin pressure of 6,000 feet but zero atmosphere external. That is a lot of force on those windows. Transparent aluminum aside, you still want to build it to avoid structural stress as much as possible.
I did wonder why so many rooms/windows are lit. My headcanon is that the ship was last lit that way when Geordi was last working on it as he was probably doing a tour and inspecting his work. But we all know the real answer. It's the same reason we can hear sounds in space and see the stars move while at warp--because it looks cool (aka Artistic license).
Also, the random lights are on for effect to help the shape of the Enterprise stand out. Additionally, The entire Star Drive section was not from the Syracuse, just the nacelles and the warp engine.
@@skepticalbadger S3EP10 preview shows differences between Star Drive's clean surface from E-D saucer's dirty surface. There's a high probability that the Star Drive section is from Syracuse.
It's worth mentioning that the 6ft-model of the Enterprise-D had an entirely different detail/paint job for Star Trek: Generations. All the close-ups of the 6ft-model you used were of the Generations paint job which was the model's final resting state when it was sold at auction. The Generations paint job included new details like more detailed escape pods and yes, the higher-detailed ribbed phaser strips. The original paint job for the 6ft-model didn't include ribbed phaser strips--the phaser strips were actually just flat and monochrome; same thing for the escape pods which were also monochrome. I like the Generations paint job more, so I'm glad that's what the Picard team seemed to mostly go with. The graceful curvature of the nacelle struts of the original ILM 6ft-model seems to elude every other modeler. The 4ft-model's struts were harsh angles with pitiful curvature, and all the virtual models have varying curvature to the struts, and the Picard one is one of the better ones, but still none match the truly graceful curvature of the original 6ft-model's struts.
I have no problem with the lit windows, even when the ship was completely empty and it was stolen by the bynars it still had lights. Even when it was in space dock and everyone had evacuated the lights were on. The same again when it was getting the berion sweep. Also we live in an age where LED lights are extremely efficient and last forever so it makes sense in the future that lighting would essentially be free when the engines are on so there would be no reason to walk around a thousand rooms turning the lights off and on, but it does make sense that there would be certain rooms were lighting would be on all the time, like hallways, support rooms for engineering, labs, or common areas like 10 forward or the various other public areas on the ship. Even in modern day cruise ships and navy ships you will notice that even if they are decommissioned that there still are lights on in various rooms for various reasons so I'm glad that they chose to go this way because the ship would have looked so weird completely dark and blank. The windows sell the scale so they are very important. On a separate note the 4 foot model was a complete travesty, it completely changed the proportions and made the ship look chunkier like a bulldog (as you can read on memory alpha), the heavy texturing is ridiculous, it makes it look like a star destroyer and the elegant smoothness of the ILM model is so much far superior, and it's only two ft longer I mean how much harder could it be to deal with. I can't believe some never notice the difference, I remember the first time I saw The defector debuted in, it was extremely noticeable, even on a small screen TV, I was like "oh my God what did they do to the Enterprise"?! All of that chunky plating ruins it ! Ironically they said it was for scale but it works in reverse, the Death Star at a distance looks completely smooth but up close has towers and buildings but in reverse the Millennium Falcon has lots of paneling, plating and greeblies because it's far smaller so smoother means larger in scale, not the reverse. Thanks for covering the differences in the various models in such detail, I could have watched this for hours!
"...I mean how much harder could it be to deal with." Just to this point , it was 2ft shorter, but MUCH lighter and lacking some of the features of the 6ft model (if I remember rightly - built in blinkies and anything relating to saucer-sep). Add to that several years of working with the larger model, and the differences in construction techniques over that time, it may have been *much* easier to work with. An obvious example being that it likely had simpler/different mounting points and power points, purely chosen to solve problems they knew they'd got on the 5ft model. It's also likely that, being smaller and lighter, it probably used a much smaller/less powerful motion control rig, which would mean fewer man-hours per shot spent manipulating heavy equipment. Saying that, I don't like it either. I just thought that point warranted discussion
The lights come on to give the ship "life" so it doesn't look like a model off someone's shelf. The primary hull did have some scorching from entering the atmosphere on Veridian III. Geordi mentioned that he still had hull work to do.
This is the content I love most from Trekyards! This kind of deep dive and exploration of the differences in canon models was absolutely a joy to watch.
The main shuttle bay door issue is probably because it’s based on the larger filming model. It’s much more prominent on that version. Also if you look at the large mockup that was built for cause and effect that has an almost garage style door.
The saucer is still burned from reentry. If you look at the preview for next week, you can see the ship from behind and clearly see the color difference between the two distinct hulls!
@Randolph Defreese Like any vehicle restoration I've ever seen, paint is one of the later steps. Better to have all the bodywork issues sorted out and everything fitting & running right before you commit to paint.
Those phaser strips are ribbed alright. In fact, it's like they weren't satisfied with the ship in episode 9 and said we can take it to 11 for episode 10.
@@bosyber If it was just improving detail like the strips I would think so too but cutting/moving around windows and other things completely I'm not sure.
What I really want to see is the Enterprise D do a proper rubber band snap into warp. That was a great in-camera optical effect that they transferred pretty decently into digital for DS9 and Voyager. It makes sense different models of cores or nacelles might generate different warp effects, but each generation of tech should be internally consistent. I still want to see someone render the final flyby in Generations with distinct warp effects for USS Farragut vs. its TOS movie-era companions.
They went above and beyond in making it look like a giant ship with rooms behind those windows. I'm wondering if they further refined the model between the two episodes because the extruded, rectangular windows are gone in the sneak peak though the extrusions on the escape pods remain.
@@giftheck the ship in the preview for the next episode isn't even the same 3d model, it's completely different and looks cartoonish. i hope they arn't all like that. its no good focusing all their efforts on putting things befhind windows if they can't even get the hull color and texture right. there are undamaged escape pods on the top of the saucer which are all twisted and contorted with bad rendering, there are huge numbers on them which don't even line up with the polygons, and all the hull details look like someone has gone around them with a black pen. its nothing like the ship we just saw in the last episode, it looks terrible
I just watched he preview for ep 10 and came here to say, wow. You can see the conference table in the observation lounge as the ship goes by- the “D” in HD best 10 seconds of ship viewing I’ve seen in ST ever.
In that same sneak peak, when the D gets to Jupiter and you see the head on shot, you can see the re-entry burn marks on the edge of the saucer when it crash-lands on Veridian 3.
I just hit the 14 minute 40 second mark when Samuel is talking about how he doesn't feel like Drew already you would use a stardrive section from a more modern variant of a galaxy-class. From my experience with museum ship TH-cam channels they will take the best stuff that's available to them. If a hypothetical flight 5 Galaxy class starship is the best maintained and has the most structurally sound stardrive section you better believe that's what he's going to be doing as that will be what sets his museum up for long-term success. But if he has unlimited resources in man-hours to dedicate to a restoration he has to pick his battles carefully.
Given all the differences between the filming miniatures, it's incredible that they got as close as they did. Like Stuart said, this is a case where "close enough" is pretty damn high praise.
The bottom shot w/ the collector, is Standard Ray Tracing mechanics. Top 2 shots, the light source rays go directly to the camera, Bottom shot, the rays hit the saucer and reflect to the camera.
I think the saucer main phasers aren't even installed. I think we're just seeing the indent in the hull where they're supposed to be. They did say weapons were limited and it would make sense the ventral phaser, at least, wouldn't have survived the crash.
Couple of oddities. 1) The "rectangular" deflector is the same as shown in the Season 1 enterprise dream sequence. 2) In the 03x10 promo, with the arrival at Jupiter, the top phaser strip is much more prominent.
$10 says they are going to visit 10 Forward and, much to Picard's dismay, the "Picard Day" poster will be up and Jordi will just shrug and say something to the effect of the ship is a museum piece.
As for the raised windows on the saucer, you could say they are new windows mounted over top of the existing windows due to the saucer having crash landed on a planet. Maybe adding a new window over the top would be easier than trying to replace them all and making sure they are structurally sound..
I love the fact that Geordie (inverse) and the VFX Team (in real) kept the scorch marks on the Saucer Section as well as weathering due to probably lying there for a good couple of weeks, months, years? On Veridian III. While the Secondary Hull is "shiny"
I think reason that the lights are on is because the ship doesn't really know that there is no one on it except on the bridge. Powering up may just mean powering corridor and room lights until someone turns them off.
the last seen was pretty great, but I wish the shot of the Enterprise going to warp had lined up with the shot from the title credits of _TNG,_ where the ship comes in slowly from the bottom of the frame… -Riker: we’re gonna need shields and such. -Picard: make it so! -Geordi: aye sir! - glamour shot of Enterprise leaving spacedock, coming about, maybe with better lighting… -Picard: Mr. Data, set a course for Earth. -Data: aye Captain, course laid in. -Picard: _Engage!_ - _TNG_ title shot, music swells… - Enterprise-D shoots to warp, with the little warp twinkle in the distance 👌
Of course the saucer is still sporting her scars from not just the crash, but the burning from re-entry into the atmosphere of Veridian-III and the weapons exchange with the Duras Sisters' BoP, she took a beating that day 28 years ago (real life years, 18th Nov. 1994 Generations was released, so 28 years, 5 months, zero days, a number of hours, several minutes, a few seconds........), and when it comes to restorations, you've got to make sure it works before you make it shine, otherwise you just have a shiny broken thing... :)
While I wasn't a great fan of the Bulldog 4 footer. It did allow the production team to do some neat maneuver shots of the Enterprise. Mostly thinking of Booby Trap where they had to get out of that energy draining asteroid field with only their thrusters. Then the Barrel Roll they did in the Dyson Sphere in Relics. Helped alot in battles as well think first shots in season 3 in Yesterday's Enterprise benefited from it.
Watch the end of Generations again, guys. It was portrayed as a roller-door there too. Of course, that doesn't mean very much when Geordi reformed the bridge to appear as the season 7 showing and not the Generations styled bridge with the added consoles on the sides.
Some additional things I noticed: The hyphens in the registry on Tobias' model doesn't match with the originals or Picard versions. Also, the border color of the registry looks white on the Picard model instead of red from the original.
As far as the lights go, I can see two possibilities: 1) Geordi had pre-programmed the lights for when the ship eventually made its debut at the museum, so it's purely for aesthetics. 2) The main computer is defaulting to the last known settings of *everything* on power-up, so everything's in the last power-state it remembers.
On the windows, which seems to be your main concern second ony to the phaser strip. The windows are recessed and rounded at the corners, I'm guessing the lighting in these scenes makes them looked raised. It's probably an optical illusion similar to the classic inside out face illusion. When you take a look at the sneak peak clip for episode 10, with the much closer shot of the Enterprise saucer section as it arrives at Jupiter, the fact they are the correct recessed windows becomes clearly obvious (plus the correct rounded corners). Same goes for the phaser strip, much more visible and segemented. Bear in mind the shot for the Picard saucer view you are using is, in that scene, a cold shot, there are no internal lights on in the Enterpise, it's all powered down and Geordi has just turned on the exterior 'museum/work' lights that are spot illuminating the hull. As a result of that spot illumination, with no other Enterprise lights on at that moment in time, the insides of recessed window 'frames' are illuminated from outside and so look raised. Likewise, the detail in the phaser strip isn't as visible as later on.
It just plain looks like the phaser strips weren't installed. Insert Tuesday joke here. Maybe it's an upgraded phaser array? I doubt it though, museum restorations usually focus on getting everything as original as possible.
You should make a video about the mistakes with the CG Enterprise D in the remasters. I've never seen anyone talk about it. You can see in the episode Booby trap, the shot where the Enterprise fires up int's impulse engine is CG and it's the generations enterprise not the TNG enterprise. You can tell by the stripe on the neck and you can make out the physical detail that was added to the nacelle in generations.
Having painted an Enterprise D Model Kit I can confirm the aztec pattern is a right swine to paint , but when it's done it's fun it looks like lots of little space invaders stuck to a deflated grey balloon.
A lot of the subtle differences can be accounted for the fact that parts of the restoration would have come from other ships of the same class. A lot of the OG ship was destroyed beyond repair in the movie. And the differences between models could also be chalked up the the maintenance and the refits the enterprise would have gone through over the years of service. I always just assumed that ships with lots of azteching going on were because as they were in the field so long they would look like that from regular maintenance and repairs of the plating in patches of sections over time.
The way I look at the cabin lights being on is this. There's no electric bill on a ship powered by antimatter and so all cabin lights are on by default unless you are sleeping. I have never seen an episode of TNG where someone turned off their cabin lights when they walked out the door, lol. Only times I've seen the lights go off is when it was done deliberately or there was an emergency.
Maybe the raised window frames/lifeboat hatches and missing Aztec design can be explained by an outer hull layer being removed (because of the crash on Veridian III). Similar to how some people explained the difference between NCC-1701 and the refit having panels as not having it's "thermal blanket."
Easy explanation on lights being on is, it's at a museum where lots of people might have started doing tours of the ship. (Also sidenote) this might also tie into his wife actually being Leah Brahms because who else would be better at helping him get her (ship) as of as original as possible.
I wonder if the "extruded" escape pods is them having been ejected. I don't remember if they called to abandon ship when they crashed, but if they did, that could be what the pod docks look like after the pods are ejected. The outer armor pops off, the podbay doors open, the pods are ejected, and the podbay doors close again. I know that it's probably easier to get a model from ST:O, but with 3d scanning technology, and the importance of this ship, I don't see why they wouldn't pop up to visit Paul Allen and take a 3d scan of the original 6' filming model. It still looks great, and it's only noticeable when you compare side by side. But they had to know people would compare side by side.
I also believe the 1701-D marking behind the main shuttlebay changes the color and size somewhat. Any discrepancies in the stardrive section are excusable in my book, because there's nothing to say that all Galaxy class vessels have to be identical. Assuming the ventral saucer also needed extensive repair, only the dorsal side of the saucer warrants grilling for consistency. So nitpick away!
You guys don’t need to explain yourselves. Most of are here to see you go in depth and pick these ships apart, even when it a gorgeous thing like the restored D 👍👍👍👍 As to the question about why there are random lights on, I was thinking maybe that was part of Geordis display program for when it went on public show?? The other ships on display seem to have the same random lighting.
I think that's a reference to how the Galaxy class starship had less firepower than later classes of starship. The Enteprise-E for example had more powerful phaser banks and more torpedo launchers. Starfleet built its ships with more firepower in response to the Borg etc.
I can't help but think of the ship of Theseus paradox . Is the Enterprise? What is the "ship". A car's VIN plate can literally be the only original part of a rebuilt car, and it's still the car. Repairing the Enterprise isn't like pounding out some dents. It could have just been tractored off the surface or have thrusters attached. But floating off the Enterprise would be like refloating the wreck of the titanic. It would fly into a million pieces mid air if you tried. The microfracture fatigue damage of the space frame and bulkheads on the saucer so extensive, you would have to subatomicaly dematerialize each peace and reforge in a replicator to make it flight worthy again. It would be a giant replicated facsimile, not the ship.
It would make sense that random lights are on based upon the last setting before main power was taken offline. This is what happens when you get a blackout at home, otherwise you wouldn’t know when the power was back on and you’re siting in a pitch black room with pitch black space outside. Maybe Geordie was in there replacing the transparent aluminium window which smashed for no obvious reason in Generations. I don’t think that miniature you have at 31 mins for the crash is the right one. In the movie the crashed saucer has a ridiculously big main shuttle bay door about double the deck hight, and curves outward. I’ve noticed that nu trek puts those extruded frames around windows so they can make really deep set windows which don’t need a starfield outside most of the time.
Yes you for sure have the wrong crashed saucer miniature there, the crashed one even has the correct escape pod placement, I've just watched the crash sequence. Not sure one you have there.
There seem to be two versions of the crashed saucer, or one which gets repainted? The one that actually crashes for the sequence, and then a 2nd one for the final static pull away shot where the saucer has stopped end is covered in dirt. That one has the missing escape pods.
What stood out to me, is that the bussard collector material on the old models looks like a rough semi transparent material, whereas the Picard Ent-D is really shiny glass. Thats pretty noticeable when she turns and now the reflected sun creates a small sharp reflection on the bussard collectors.
Maybe the lights that are on are circuited to emergency generator backup. As long as the ship has power certain lights will always be on regardless. Also keep in mind how energy-siping LEDs are. When your talking Warp Core power running all the lights on board wouldn't even be a measured load it would get added into something else.
Wish you guys would highlight the components of which you guys are talking about. For people like me it's hard to place the differences you guys are pointing out. For instance things like the torpedo bays, 10 forward, escape pods, etc
2:07 come on now be serious. you know why the lights are on. the ship wouldn't look right to the audience if all the lights were off, and that would make for a boring power-on sequence. if you must have an in-universe explanation, just imagine that the lights are still set to whatever default or schedule was set by the previous crew the last time the ship was in service. it's easy.
The saucer comparison is interesting @25:00. To me, it is so cool to see how different artists choose to represent source material. Are the golden pads "transport emitters" they look very different per each model.
Thanks! The thing that stands out as you are gong through the various models is that the window arrangement below the registry is different to the other models.
I love it, it reminds me of the original model I built I think irmt was from ERTL and had the captain yaht seperate from the saucer. That one had a rounded main shuttle bay door, you had to cement it in. Captain Foley coming from a family of metal workers, structures and machines constructed from metal alloys are usually forged smooth, then welded on to there mounts or framework, then rough edges ground down, so when you talk about smooth surfaces being futuristic you are pretty much accurate. By the way nice breakdown guys! Thanks!
ah yeah that was it Ertl, had/have that too (it's a bit of a mess bc. it was one of my 1st bigger models, gave it to someone who's better at modelling and with more time to fix for his own ends.
Don't forget about the scorch marks on the leading edge of the hull from its plunge through the atmosphere on Veridian III. Geordi did say he still had some hull damage to deal with.
I wonder if the guys rendering the models for the show were talking amongst themselves saying "we gotta get this right...Stewart and Sam are going to nitpick the hell out of this!"
On the main shuttle bay door discussion at 17:48, the model for the saucer crash landing scene definitely looked like the roller door "protruded" more when viewed from the rear, like in the version from Picard. Always thought that looked a little odd in Generations.
Headcanon for me is that Geordie had updated building regs and heath and safety guidelines to follow which is why saucer windows look square and extruded. 😂
Who could have imagined, in 2023, Trekyards would get to make this video and we would get to enjoy it. Absolutely incredible, this is what we've been waiting for 👍 There is something about the oldschool miniatures that even to this day, still feel better to me on screen. They just look so damn good
Terry Matalas has said the tng era doesn't have to end with season 3 of Picard, and if people want it star trek legacy could be a possibility. Riker said in generations he always assumed he would get a shot at the enterprise chair someday. In the first episode Shaw tells Riker he is a captain without a chair. With the Enterprise-F set to retire that is if it isn't destroyed, what if the Enterprise-D also survives. What if not only that but gets refitted to be the most advanced ship in Starfleet again and put back into service and have Riker as captain with the younger officers of the titan being transferred to the Enterprise-D to serve with him and maybe seven as his first officer. With the cost of rebuilding the full Enterprise-D bridge maybe a continuing series with the Enterprise-D and that bridge were a thought process of a series moving forward rather than one using the titan. In the end maybe after the Enterprise-D is either decommissioned or destroyed years or decades later then the Enterprise-G goes into service
the bottom phaser strips look different from the top, as if the top phaser strip has been removed and the mounting pad is all that left, the bottom looks closer to original.
I'm with the captain on this. I'm just so so happy we have her back. Thank you guys for doing an in depth look at the D. She is my second favorite Enterprise and I didn't even know a lot of these differences were there throughout the years. Great job everyone!
Glad you mentioned the cabin loo lights, they caught my eye immediately and I thought it looked strange having any turned on. Very very minor quibble though, it was incredible to have that ship back on our screens again
It's just a funny curiosity that all after all these years that they do have discrepancies from the passage of time they're there because they can be there because well nobody thought that the ship would go on for this long but from physical models to CGI models discrepancies with the interior's it's amazing they've kept it is consistent but now going forward this Picard season 3 CG model will be the definitive version of ncc-1701 Delta
All the little changes don't really bother me, because they are well within the Margin of error between all the D variants. And my head cannon as to how the ST: Picard Enterprise D got the voyager Phaser Strips is that perhaps the original strips were heavily damaged in the Crash on Veridian 3, and perhaps the USS Syracuse, had the newer Voyager phaser strips, so Maybe Geordi matched the Saucher Phaserstrips to the Star Drive Phaser Strips. Or, when fixing them, the only available ones were the slightly newer ones, that in comparison were still quite old, and from the same era. ALso to the windows, in the sneekpeek from the Readyroom, for ep 10, the windows are round again, and there is no weird picture frame.
When I was in the fire department, if an alarm went off, dispatching say all the units in the house..... All primarily use common rooms lights cam on... Bunk rooms... Hallways ... Dispatch... Even the kitchen and day room.. and obviously also the vehicle bays and locker rooms .. sooo, primarily crew quarters that could use an extra jump during full ... Start up?
Have you noticed that the trailer for the next episode shows the D saucer with flat windows and not with the frame as shown in episode 9, I think it's just one of those things, I'm just happy to see the old girl back
On my old D model, the middle, big saucer shuttle bay was round and rolling looking, not quite unlike the one on the Picard version. But it's recessed enough that from this angle, the bay around it should look more like on the other two versions, with the door barely, if at all, visible.
Also, holy shit I never realized how different the 6ft and 4ft models were. 6ft definitely looks better, and the Picard model seems to match that most closely, especially the deflector and thinner edge to the saucer
I think *some* of the super-panel detail in Picard is likely partially impacted by the way they're handling reflection mapping - obviously the current lighting model seems to play a lot more withe different levels of panel reflectivity, moreso than panel colour I think. I think, even, it *may* have the aztecing you gentlement said was missing - but it doesn't seem to be done with colour but with reflectivity/luminosity. As to the window... cowling? The outwards extrusion. I find it interesting that the shot from the ep10 trailer gets close enough that you *should* be able to see that, but it's not visible. It seems extremely odd that they'd change it but it's possible that someone in the crew spotted it as much as you. If I wanted to headcanon the difference... maybe the extruded frame was some kinda drydock artefact from the repair? I can't imagine that there's many details known to be structurally sound after bumping into a planet. On the escape pods, the ones on the Picard model seem to have a very different structural design, because it looks - to me at least - that they've added some kinda internal structure instead of the flat, numbered cowling of the 6ft model. Again, if I wanted to be generous, maybe the Picard one is showing more of the lifeboat structure, and the cowlings have been removed for maintenance?
Andrew Probert's design for the Enterprise D was the last time I feel that a Star Trek production truly made a futuristic iteration on the design of starships in the franchise. Ever since then, ship designs have begun to look to the history of the franchise for their designs and that makes me sad. I want Star Trek to be about the future again and not just a nostalgia vehicle.
I don't know if the initial shot version was unfinished...but looking at this week's teaser version the windows don't seem to extrude and even the placement is different more like the studio model, phaser strips look corrected. Did they do another complete model or something idk.
Absolutely love the detail and historical background information on the various D models used for the series over the years. Great retrospective and comparative analysis on one of the most beloved ships in all of sci-fi. All I can say is that I hope to god they don't destroy or damage her severely in the next episode, PLEASE!!
The lights looked like they were on in various rooms because because Geordi was still fixing the ship up and didn't close a lot of the doors. Hence when the hall lights went on the hall light passed through those open doors and shone out the windows.
The Phaser strip on the nacelle struts is also different, on the models and CGI ones, its on the strut curve, on the Picard model, its been moved towards the actual nacelle, and at the front of it.
Probably it's depends on ship types(eg. vessel carrier, battlecruser, medical, research vessel, etc) and console systems. Quantum negative energy phaser is suggested to set in every ship, do you think so?
also if you look at the sacucer in this episode at the name and the sneak peak you can she she has re entry and scultch marks from her last mission damga on virenet 3.
As Geordie has been tinkering the ship back together from other Galaxy Class ships over 20+ years, so its going to be a ptachwork, due to changes in design during the service duration of this class of ship. And what's to say he hasn't done some further tinkering under the hood to improve its performance in some areas such as drive performance and weapons/shield tech as well. Either way, as long as NCC-1701-D survives the season finale then I'll be happy, but I would love to see D in Star Trek Legacy or another spin-off as the main ship character.
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As someone who has worked on a few museum ships, and dealt with at least one incident where we had to disconnect and then reconnect shore power, I can tell you a couple of things. 1) Once the ship powers on, any lights that were last left in the “on” position will normally come back up. In a situation where things are computer controlled, it’s simply “restore to previous state.” 2) There are *always* lights left on in various compartments. Some are emergency lights, and cannot be turned off if the ship has power. If those lights go out it means that your ship has neither internal nor external power and you’d better be getting into a lifeboat. 3) Ships change as they age, externally as well as internally. The USS Intrepid (CVS-11), Yorktown (CVS-10) and Hornet (CVS-12) all came out of the yard looking similar. They also all had the same set of refits, at different times. All three are now visibly different from their earlier incarnations as well as each other, even at a distance.
I agree, had one year with St. CROIX, A Canadian ship that was part bikini atoll, but still had power were I didn't think it should've.
Also look at the USS Midway, which looks NOTHING like it did when it launched.
Remember, the secondary hull is not from the Enterprise D, if it's from a later ship, that could explain the difference in looks
Indeed. The USS Syracuse, in fact
Yes, I'm also willing to excuse any differences on the stardrive section because it's not the Enterprise -- there is nothing that requires USS Syracuse or any other Galaxy class to be identical. It would be amusing to see mismatched registries and vessel names on the donor stardrive section.
Not actually what's said.
Geordi only says the engine and nacelles are from the Syracuse.
It's entirely possible that all the "large" pieces of the superstructure were salvaged at the same time as the saucer, since he did say it was done to clean up the system.
It would explain why it took decades for him to piece it back together.
Having gone back and rewatched the scene in Generations, the engines breach with a double flash and between that and the shockwave, most of the drive section is obscured beyond the obvious explosion at main engineering.
The Warp drive was obviously unsalvagable, and that extending to the nacelles makes sense.
Depending on how the Syracuse went out of service, those might have been the only parts worth using.
Either way the discrepancies can be explained by the passage of time it's the simple fact of the matter I've always been a fan of the six filming model from the original series I thought it was the most elegant sculpted graceful looking ship I feel like aesthetically they should have stuck with that Andy Probert had told iom when they were making the model he did not want it to be 6 ft more like half that because he knew principal photography would be complicated from it it was a very wide very heavy model and thus there was the 4-footer then there was shape and design changes they made and then finally CG and now we have mismatched Aesthetics personally I think the one in season 3 the card is faithful it is and wonderful tribute and it works it has the best elements of both and it will be the definitive iconronic version going forward
@@lovipoekimo176 fun fact to we also don't know when the Uso Syracuse was constructed I don't think it was of the original batch of galaxy-class Starships as it wasn't mentioned or reference in the series but who knows but as it is they have established the USA Syracuse as being the donor ship of its star driving warp engines so that the enterprise-d could live once more I mean and that shouldn't be a surprise given the fact that even in modern-day military Tech parts are supposed to be interchangeable I see nothing out of the ordinary from taking of viable saucer and a working stardrive and mating them together
Geordi and Beverly have something in common: they both kept their babies a secret from Picard for 20 years…
Boom boom! LOL
After seeing the sneak peak of episode 10 I'm pretty convinced that, besides the cast budget, everything else went to the D. The close fly-by shot looked amazing! Perhaps the best I've ever seen the D since the filming miniature.
I am by no means a fan of the Galaxy-class, but man does it look good in that sneak peek.
The windows are even actually rounded when you look at them!
What miniature,. It was cgi
Enterprise d looks more modern than many of the current designs
I don't know why they can't make the Enterprise-C concept a different starship class. It looks very modern and more graceful than most of these newer classes.
@@JamesFuentes526 what you don't like the fat one??
I keep thinking this too.
That is because the design lineage of Star Trek is now an absolute mess.
Things were pretty consistent right up to the End of DS9 and Voyager.
The rot started when the producers of Star Trek: Enterprise insisted that the hero ship should look like the Akira Class. A ship from 2 centuries later in the shows timeline.
Since Kurtzman took over it has just been a CGI nightmare. The ship designs alternate between pleasing fans (the new Excelsior and other TMP era rip-offs) and royally pissing them off (any ship from Discovery).
They really ruined 40 years of fairly consistent design work. Other than fan bitching I think that is a shame. The consistency added to the verisimilitude of the show.
@@hastekulvaati9681 I think the biggest problem was really that they wanted to do a prequel show, but with sequel tech. Ignoring Enterprise, Discovery SHOULD have been set post-nemesis, and there wasn't a huge reason for it not to be. It wouldn't have given us Strange New Worlds, but it would have kept things consistent!
Rounded windows is more believable from an engineering standpoint. The first jet aircraft the de Havilland Comet had square windows, but the repeated pressurization of the cabin caused micro fractures in the air-frame around the sharp points of the window. So that is why aircraft windows today are all rounded corners. There is a lot of force pressed on them when flying at 40,000 feet but a cabin pressure at 6,000 feet. Now imagine these ships with a cabin pressure of 6,000 feet but zero atmosphere external. That is a lot of force on those windows. Transparent aluminum aside, you still want to build it to avoid structural stress as much as possible.
I did wonder why so many rooms/windows are lit. My headcanon is that the ship was last lit that way when Geordi was last working on it as he was probably doing a tour and inspecting his work. But we all know the real answer. It's the same reason we can hear sounds in space and see the stars move while at warp--because it looks cool (aka Artistic license).
Also, the random lights are on for effect to help the shape of the Enterprise stand out. Additionally, The entire Star Drive section was not from the Syracuse, just the nacelles and the warp engine.
The star drive section houses the warp engine and nacelles.
@@valenrn8657 Yeah, no shit. But if Geordi had taken the entire stardrive section from the Syracuse he'd have said so.
@@skepticalbadger S3EP10 preview shows differences between Star Drive's clean surface from E-D saucer's dirty surface.
There's a high probability that the Star Drive section is from Syracuse.
@@skepticalbadger I think thats what he meant though. He should have just said 'stardrive' or 'secondary hull' though.
It's worth mentioning that the 6ft-model of the Enterprise-D had an entirely different detail/paint job for Star Trek: Generations. All the close-ups of the 6ft-model you used were of the Generations paint job which was the model's final resting state when it was sold at auction. The Generations paint job included new details like more detailed escape pods and yes, the higher-detailed ribbed phaser strips. The original paint job for the 6ft-model didn't include ribbed phaser strips--the phaser strips were actually just flat and monochrome; same thing for the escape pods which were also monochrome. I like the Generations paint job more, so I'm glad that's what the Picard team seemed to mostly go with. The graceful curvature of the nacelle struts of the original ILM 6ft-model seems to elude every other modeler. The 4ft-model's struts were harsh angles with pitiful curvature, and all the virtual models have varying curvature to the struts, and the Picard one is one of the better ones, but still none match the truly graceful curvature of the original 6ft-model's struts.
I have no problem with the lit windows, even when the ship was completely empty and it was stolen by the bynars it still had lights.
Even when it was in space dock and everyone had evacuated the lights were on. The same again when it was getting the berion sweep.
Also we live in an age where LED lights are extremely efficient and last forever so it makes sense in the future that lighting would essentially be free when the engines are on so there would be no reason to walk around a thousand rooms turning the lights off and on, but it does make sense that there would be certain rooms were lighting would be on all the time, like hallways, support rooms for engineering, labs, or common areas like 10 forward or the various other public areas on the ship.
Even in modern day cruise ships and navy ships you will notice that even if they are decommissioned that there still are lights on in various rooms for various reasons so I'm glad that they chose to go this way because the ship would have looked so weird completely dark and blank.
The windows sell the scale so they are very important.
On a separate note the 4 foot model was a complete travesty, it completely changed the proportions and made the ship look chunkier like a bulldog (as you can read on memory alpha), the heavy texturing is ridiculous, it makes it look like a star destroyer and the elegant smoothness of the ILM model is so much far superior, and it's only two ft longer I mean how much harder could it be to deal with.
I can't believe some never notice the difference, I remember the first time I saw The defector debuted in, it was extremely noticeable, even on a small screen TV, I was like "oh my God what did they do to the Enterprise"?!
All of that chunky plating ruins it !
Ironically they said it was for scale but it works in reverse, the Death Star at a distance looks completely smooth but up close has towers and buildings but in reverse the Millennium Falcon has lots of paneling, plating and greeblies because it's far smaller so smoother means larger in scale, not the reverse.
Thanks for covering the differences in the various models in such detail, I could have watched this for hours!
"...I mean how much harder could it be to deal with." Just to this point , it was 2ft shorter, but MUCH lighter and lacking some of the features of the 6ft model (if I remember rightly - built in blinkies and anything relating to saucer-sep). Add to that several years of working with the larger model, and the differences in construction techniques over that time, it may have been *much* easier to work with.
An obvious example being that it likely had simpler/different mounting points and power points, purely chosen to solve problems they knew they'd got on the 5ft model. It's also likely that, being smaller and lighter, it probably used a much smaller/less powerful motion control rig, which would mean fewer man-hours per shot spent manipulating heavy equipment.
Saying that, I don't like it either. I just thought that point warranted discussion
The lights come on to give the ship "life" so it doesn't look like a model off someone's shelf. The primary hull did have some scorching from entering the atmosphere on Veridian III. Geordi mentioned that he still had hull work to do.
This is the content I love most from Trekyards! This kind of deep dive and exploration of the differences in canon models was absolutely a joy to watch.
The main shuttle bay door issue is probably because it’s based on the larger filming model. It’s much more prominent on that version. Also if you look at the large mockup that was built for cause and effect that has an almost garage style door.
Agreed on the garage door kind of doors of the main shuttlebay. It was such a big plotpoint from Cause and Effect
The saucer is still burned from reentry. If you look at the preview for next week, you can see the ship from behind and clearly see the color difference between the two distinct hulls!
Not to mention scarred from sliding on the rocky ground...
So Geordi could get the materials to fix it but couldn't afford some paint?
@Randolph Defreese Like any vehicle restoration I've ever seen, paint is one of the later steps. Better to have all the bodywork issues sorted out and everything fitting & running right before you commit to paint.
Patina.
@@randolphdefreese7874 I don't think ships are actually painted. But it also serves a visual representation of what happened to.
Saw footage from 3x10 and OMG you can see 10-forward and the observation lounge table. It looks amazing.
About the Phaser Strip issue, it looks like the fixed it by episode 10 looking at the sneek peak.
Those phaser strips are ribbed alright. In fact, it's like they weren't satisfied with the ship in episode 9 and said we can take it to 11 for episode 10.
More than that the window extrusion and even the placement is not the same....more like the studio model. Not sure what happened there.
@@Skippy2k81 Perhaps they didn't have time to improve that before EP9, but sat through and worked on it so it was done for their EP10 glory?
@@bosyber If it was just improving detail like the strips I would think so too but cutting/moving around windows and other things completely I'm not sure.
What I really want to see is the Enterprise D do a proper rubber band snap into warp. That was a great in-camera optical effect that they transferred pretty decently into digital for DS9 and Voyager.
It makes sense different models of cores or nacelles might generate different warp effects, but each generation of tech should be internally consistent. I still want to see someone render the final flyby in Generations with distinct warp effects for USS Farragut vs. its TOS movie-era companions.
Have you guys seen the sneak peak for episode 10? So much detail on the ship
They went above and beyond in making it look like a giant ship with rooms behind those windows. I'm wondering if they further refined the model between the two episodes because the extruded, rectangular windows are gone in the sneak peak though the extrusions on the escape pods remain.
@@giftheck the ship in the preview for the next episode isn't even the same 3d model, it's completely different and looks cartoonish. i hope they arn't all like that. its no good focusing all their efforts on putting things befhind windows if they can't even get the hull color and texture right. there are undamaged escape pods on the top of the saucer which are all twisted and contorted with bad rendering, there are huge numbers on them which don't even line up with the polygons, and all the hull details look like someone has gone around them with a black pen. its nothing like the ship we just saw in the last episode, it looks terrible
I just watched he preview for ep 10 and came here to say, wow. You can see the conference table in the observation lounge as the ship goes by- the “D” in HD best 10 seconds of ship viewing I’ve seen in ST ever.
@@NCC_1701 if I could downvote you I would
In that same sneak peak, when the D gets to Jupiter and you see the head on shot, you can see the re-entry burn marks on the edge of the saucer when it crash-lands on Veridian 3.
I just hit the 14 minute 40 second mark when Samuel is talking about how he doesn't feel like Drew already you would use a stardrive section from a more modern variant of a galaxy-class. From my experience with museum ship TH-cam channels they will take the best stuff that's available to them. If a hypothetical flight 5 Galaxy class starship is the best maintained and has the most structurally sound stardrive section you better believe that's what he's going to be doing as that will be what sets his museum up for long-term success. But if he has unlimited resources in man-hours to dedicate to a restoration he has to pick his battles carefully.
Given all the differences between the filming miniatures, it's incredible that they got as close as they did. Like Stuart said, this is a case where "close enough" is pretty damn high praise.
The lights are on because it's a museum piece... It's supposed to be on display, so yes, lights in random quarters would be on.
The bottom shot w/ the collector, is Standard Ray Tracing mechanics.
Top 2 shots, the light source rays go directly to the camera,
Bottom shot, the rays hit the saucer and reflect to the camera.
I think the saucer main phasers aren't even installed. I think we're just seeing the indent in the hull where they're supposed to be. They did say weapons were limited and it would make sense the ventral phaser, at least, wouldn't have survived the crash.
Couple of oddities.
1) The "rectangular" deflector is the same as shown in the Season 1 enterprise dream sequence.
2) In the 03x10 promo, with the arrival at Jupiter, the top phaser strip is much more prominent.
I’m biased as I watched TNG as a kid. The D is my favorite Enterprise and I was so happy to see her on screen again.
Very emotional for me.
$10 says they are going to visit 10 Forward and, much to Picard's dismay, the "Picard Day" poster will be up and Jordi will just shrug and say something to the effect of the ship is a museum piece.
I still love Enterprise-D. I'm so glad she back to save the day.
Same!
As for the raised windows on the saucer, you could say they are new windows mounted over top of the existing windows due to the saucer having crash landed on a planet. Maybe adding a new window over the top would be easier than trying to replace them all and making sure they are structurally sound..
I love the fact that Geordie (inverse) and the VFX Team (in real) kept the scorch marks on the Saucer Section as well as weathering due to probably lying there for a good couple of weeks, months, years? On Veridian III. While the Secondary Hull is "shiny"
I think reason that the lights are on is because the ship doesn't really know that there is no one on it except on the bridge. Powering up may just mean powering corridor and room lights until someone turns them off.
In the movie the crashing saucer did have the escape pods, after it crashed those pods were missing. LOL never noticed that before
the last seen was pretty great, but I wish the shot of the Enterprise going to warp had lined up with the shot from the title credits of _TNG,_ where the ship comes in slowly from the bottom of the frame…
-Riker: we’re gonna need shields and such.
-Picard: make it so!
-Geordi: aye sir!
- glamour shot of Enterprise leaving spacedock, coming about, maybe with better lighting…
-Picard: Mr. Data, set a course for Earth.
-Data: aye Captain, course laid in.
-Picard: _Engage!_
- _TNG_ title shot, music swells…
- Enterprise-D shoots to warp, with the little warp twinkle in the distance 👌
Of course the saucer is still sporting her scars from not just the crash, but the burning from re-entry into the atmosphere of Veridian-III and the weapons exchange with the Duras Sisters' BoP, she took a beating that day 28 years ago (real life years, 18th Nov. 1994 Generations was released, so 28 years, 5 months, zero days, a number of hours, several minutes, a few seconds........), and when it comes to restorations, you've got to make sure it works before you make it shine, otherwise you just have a shiny broken thing... :)
Re: no registry on the ILM CGI build: "That's a whole thing, let's not get into it"
Uh...let's get into it, because that's super interesting to me.
Yes
While I wasn't a great fan of the Bulldog 4 footer. It did allow the production team to do some neat maneuver shots of the Enterprise. Mostly thinking of Booby Trap where they had to get out of that energy draining asteroid field with only their thrusters. Then the Barrel Roll they did in the Dyson Sphere in Relics. Helped alot in battles as well think first shots in season 3 in Yesterday's Enterprise benefited from it.
Watch the end of Generations again, guys. It was portrayed as a roller-door there too. Of course, that doesn't mean very much when Geordi reformed the bridge to appear as the season 7 showing and not the Generations styled bridge with the added consoles on the sides.
Some additional things I noticed:
The hyphens in the registry on Tobias' model doesn't match with the originals or Picard versions. Also, the border color of the registry looks white on the Picard model instead of red from the original.
As far as the lights go, I can see two possibilities:
1) Geordi had pre-programmed the lights for when the ship eventually made its debut at the museum, so it's purely for aesthetics.
2) The main computer is defaulting to the last known settings of *everything* on power-up, so everything's in the last power-state it remembers.
Yeah I can see some people forgetting to turn off some lights during a complete emergency.
I love that Gordie hadn’t had time to change the name on the drive section yet. It still says Syracuse.
On the windows, which seems to be your main concern second ony to the phaser strip. The windows are recessed and rounded at the corners, I'm guessing the lighting in these scenes makes them looked raised. It's probably an optical illusion similar to the classic inside out face illusion. When you take a look at the sneak peak clip for episode 10, with the much closer shot of the Enterprise saucer section as it arrives at Jupiter, the fact they are the correct recessed windows becomes clearly obvious (plus the correct rounded corners). Same goes for the phaser strip, much more visible and segemented. Bear in mind the shot for the Picard saucer view you are using is, in that scene, a cold shot, there are no internal lights on in the Enterpise, it's all powered down and Geordi has just turned on the exterior 'museum/work' lights that are spot illuminating the hull. As a result of that spot illumination, with no other Enterprise lights on at that moment in time, the insides of recessed window 'frames' are illuminated from outside and so look raised. Likewise, the detail in the phaser strip isn't as visible as later on.
It just plain looks like the phaser strips weren't installed. Insert Tuesday joke here. Maybe it's an upgraded phaser array? I doubt it though, museum restorations usually focus on getting everything as original as possible.
You should make a video about the mistakes with the CG Enterprise D in the remasters. I've never seen anyone talk about it. You can see in the episode Booby trap, the shot where the Enterprise fires up int's impulse engine is CG and it's the generations enterprise not the TNG enterprise. You can tell by the stripe on the neck and you can make out the physical detail that was added to the nacelle in generations.
Having painted an Enterprise D Model Kit I can confirm the aztec pattern is a right swine to paint , but when it's done it's fun it looks like lots of little space invaders stuck to a deflated grey balloon.
look at the teaser for episode 10, they give a wicked good closeup of the ship. the raised frames of the windows were flat again.
A lot of the subtle differences can be accounted for the fact that parts of the restoration would have come from other ships of the same class. A lot of the OG ship was destroyed beyond repair in the movie. And the differences between models could also be chalked up the the maintenance and the refits the enterprise would have gone through over the years of service. I always just assumed that ships with lots of azteching going on were because as they were in the field so long they would look like that from regular maintenance and repairs of the plating in patches of sections over time.
The way I look at the cabin lights being on is this. There's no electric bill on a ship powered by antimatter and so all cabin lights are on by default unless you are sleeping. I have never seen an episode of TNG where someone turned off their cabin lights when they walked out the door, lol. Only times I've seen the lights go off is when it was done deliberately or there was an emergency.
Maybe the raised window frames/lifeboat hatches and missing Aztec design can be explained by an outer hull layer being removed (because of the crash on Veridian III). Similar to how some people explained the difference between NCC-1701 and the refit having panels as not having it's "thermal blanket."
Easy explanation on lights being on is, it's at a museum where lots of people might have started doing tours of the ship. (Also sidenote) this might also tie into his wife actually being Leah Brahms because who else would be better at helping him get her (ship) as of as original as possible.
That's kinda my headcanon as well. But the real-world explanation is most like just artistic license.
Any differences on the star drive section is because it's a different star drive section . That captain was like Samuel L Jackson and wanted purple .
I wonder if the "extruded" escape pods is them having been ejected. I don't remember if they called to abandon ship when they crashed, but if they did, that could be what the pod docks look like after the pods are ejected. The outer armor pops off, the podbay doors open, the pods are ejected, and the podbay doors close again.
I know that it's probably easier to get a model from ST:O, but with 3d scanning technology, and the importance of this ship, I don't see why they wouldn't pop up to visit Paul Allen and take a 3d scan of the original 6' filming model. It still looks great, and it's only noticeable when you compare side by side. But they had to know people would compare side by side.
I also believe the 1701-D marking behind the main shuttlebay changes the color and size somewhat.
Any discrepancies in the stardrive section are excusable in my book, because there's nothing to say that all Galaxy class vessels have to be identical. Assuming the ventral saucer also needed extensive repair, only the dorsal side of the saucer warrants grilling for consistency. So nitpick away!
You guys don’t need to explain yourselves. Most of are here to see you go in depth and pick these ships apart, even when it a gorgeous thing like the restored D 👍👍👍👍
As to the question about why there are random lights on, I was thinking maybe that was part of Geordis display program for when it went on public show?? The other ships on display seem to have the same random lighting.
I wonder if the Picard Enterprise may not even have phasers because Worf said that the fire power is limited? Hence no phaser strip.
I think that's a reference to how the Galaxy class starship had less firepower than later classes of starship. The Enteprise-E for example had more powerful phaser banks and more torpedo launchers. Starfleet built its ships with more firepower in response to the Borg etc.
I can't help but think of the ship of Theseus paradox
. Is the Enterprise? What is the "ship". A car's VIN plate can literally be the only original part of a rebuilt car, and it's still the car.
Repairing the Enterprise isn't like pounding out some dents. It could have just been tractored off the surface or have thrusters attached. But floating off the Enterprise would be like refloating the wreck of the titanic. It would fly into a million pieces mid air if you tried.
The microfracture fatigue damage of the space frame and bulkheads on the saucer so extensive, you would have to subatomicaly dematerialize each peace and reforge in a replicator to make it flight worthy again. It would be a giant replicated facsimile, not the ship.
The crew remains the same and the ship changes around them from one decade to another
It would make sense that random lights are on based upon the last setting before main power was taken offline. This is what happens when you get a blackout at home, otherwise you wouldn’t know when the power was back on and you’re siting in a pitch black room with pitch black space outside. Maybe Geordie was in there replacing the transparent aluminium window which smashed for no obvious reason in Generations.
I don’t think that miniature you have at 31 mins for the crash is the right one. In the movie the crashed saucer has a ridiculously big main shuttle bay door about double the deck hight, and curves outward.
I’ve noticed that nu trek puts those extruded frames around windows so they can make really deep set windows which don’t need a starfield outside most of the time.
Yes you for sure have the wrong crashed saucer miniature there, the crashed one even has the correct escape pod placement, I've just watched the crash sequence.
Not sure one you have there.
There seem to be two versions of the crashed saucer, or one which gets repainted? The one that actually crashes for the sequence, and then a 2nd one for the final static pull away shot where the saucer has stopped end is covered in dirt. That one has the missing escape pods.
What stood out to me, is that the bussard collector material on the old models looks like a rough semi transparent material, whereas the Picard Ent-D is really shiny glass. Thats pretty noticeable when she turns and now the reflected sun creates a small sharp reflection on the bussard collectors.
Maybe the lights that are on are circuited to emergency generator backup. As long as the ship has power certain lights will always be on regardless. Also keep in mind how energy-siping LEDs are. When your talking Warp Core power running all the lights on board wouldn't even be a measured load it would get added into something else.
Wish you guys would highlight the components of which you guys are talking about. For people like me it's hard to place the differences you guys are pointing out. For instance things like the torpedo bays, 10 forward, escape pods, etc
Yes! A big arrow or circle to highlight old & new details would be great.
2:07 come on now be serious. you know why the lights are on. the ship wouldn't look right to the audience if all the lights were off, and that would make for a boring power-on sequence. if you must have an in-universe explanation, just imagine that the lights are still set to whatever default or schedule was set by the previous crew the last time the ship was in service. it's easy.
Watch for next week’s episode the saucer is scratched and weathered and the secondary hull is clean. It’s In the teaser
The saucer comparison is interesting @25:00. To me, it is so cool to see how different artists choose to represent source material. Are the golden pads "transport emitters" they look very different per each model.
Thanks! The thing that stands out as you are gong through the various models is that the window arrangement below the registry is different to the other models.
I love it, it reminds me of the original model I built I think irmt was from ERTL and had the captain yaht seperate from the saucer. That one had a rounded main shuttle bay door, you had to cement it in. Captain Foley coming from a family of metal workers, structures and machines constructed from metal alloys are usually forged smooth, then welded on to there mounts or framework, then rough edges ground down, so when you talk about smooth surfaces being futuristic you are pretty much accurate. By the way nice breakdown guys! Thanks!
ah yeah that was it Ertl, had/have that too (it's a bit of a mess bc. it was one of my 1st bigger models, gave it to someone who's better at modelling and with more time to fix for his own ends.
Don't forget about the scorch marks on the leading edge of the hull from its plunge through the atmosphere on Veridian III. Geordi did say he still had some hull damage to deal with.
Maybe that's just the lights that were on previously, it just powers up in it's last state.
Seeing how she at close up still appears to have her burn marks on the saucer in a cool way its like the flying generations damage playmates ship lol
Oh I've been waiting for this episode I bet you guys had a field day with this... I cried when I saw her leave space dock one last time.
I wonder if the guys rendering the models for the show were talking amongst themselves saying "we gotta get this right...Stewart and Sam are going to nitpick the hell out of this!"
On the main shuttle bay door discussion at 17:48, the model for the saucer crash landing scene definitely looked like the roller door "protruded" more when viewed from the rear, like in the version from Picard. Always thought that looked a little odd in Generations.
Headcanon for me is that Geordie had updated building regs and heath and safety guidelines to follow which is why saucer windows look square and extruded. 😂
Also remember that Geordi mentions the nacelle plating being a mess. So for me, the sky is the limit on what it looks like.
Who could have imagined, in 2023, Trekyards would get to make this video and we would get to enjoy it. Absolutely incredible, this is what we've been waiting for 👍 There is something about the oldschool miniatures that even to this day, still feel better to me on screen. They just look so damn good
Terry Matalas has said the tng era doesn't have to end with season 3 of Picard, and if people want it star trek legacy could be a possibility. Riker said in generations he always assumed he would get a shot at the enterprise chair someday. In the first episode Shaw tells Riker he is a captain without a chair. With the Enterprise-F set to retire that is if it isn't destroyed, what if the Enterprise-D also survives. What if not only that but gets refitted to be the most advanced ship in Starfleet again and put back into service and have Riker as captain with the younger officers of the titan being transferred to the Enterprise-D to serve with him and maybe seven as his first officer. With the cost of rebuilding the full Enterprise-D bridge maybe a continuing series with the Enterprise-D and that bridge were a thought process of a series moving forward rather than one using the titan. In the end maybe after the Enterprise-D is either decommissioned or destroyed years or decades later then the Enterprise-G goes into service
Riker would once again pass up a promotion in order to continue with Picard as his boss
To be honest, the Enterprise-D looks more modern than the newer "25th Century" ships. Lol.
the bottom phaser strips look different from the top, as if the top phaser strip has been removed and the mounting pad is all that left, the bottom looks closer to original.
I'm with the captain on this. I'm just so so happy we have her back.
Thank you guys for doing an in depth look at the D. She is my second favorite Enterprise and I didn't even know a lot of these differences were there throughout the years. Great job everyone!
Glad you mentioned the cabin loo lights, they caught my eye immediately and I thought it looked strange having any turned on. Very very minor quibble though, it was incredible to have that ship back on our screens again
You need to redo this entire video now since the Enterprise gets SO MUCH BETTER in Episode 10. Like a night and day difference.
....yep!
It's just a funny curiosity that all after all these years that they do have discrepancies from the passage of time they're there because they can be there because well nobody thought that the ship would go on for this long but from physical models to CGI models discrepancies with the interior's it's amazing they've kept it is consistent but now going forward this Picard season 3 CG model will be the definitive version of ncc-1701 Delta
All the little changes don't really bother me, because they are well within the Margin of error between all the D variants. And my head cannon as to how the ST: Picard Enterprise D got the voyager Phaser Strips is that perhaps the original strips were heavily damaged in the Crash on Veridian 3, and perhaps the USS Syracuse, had the newer Voyager phaser strips, so Maybe Geordi matched the Saucher Phaserstrips to the Star Drive Phaser Strips. Or, when fixing them, the only available ones were the slightly newer ones, that in comparison were still quite old, and from the same era. ALso to the windows, in the sneekpeek from the Readyroom, for ep 10, the windows are round again, and there is no weird picture frame.
"when fixing them, the only available ones" - that actually explains all the discrepancies
When I was in the fire department, if an alarm went off, dispatching say all the units in the house..... All primarily use common rooms lights cam on... Bunk rooms... Hallways ... Dispatch... Even the kitchen and day room.. and obviously also the vehicle bays and locker rooms
.. sooo, primarily crew quarters that could use an extra jump during full ... Start up?
Have you noticed that the trailer for the next episode shows the D saucer with flat windows and not with the frame as shown in episode 9, I think it's just one of those things, I'm just happy to see the old girl back
On my old D model, the middle, big saucer shuttle bay was round and rolling looking, not quite unlike the one on the Picard version. But it's recessed enough that from this angle, the bay around it should look more like on the other two versions, with the door barely, if at all, visible.
Interesting, in the sneak peek for ep10, the close ups of the ship doesn't show the 'frames' around the windows like in the museum shot.
Geordi did say there was still hull work to do (likely referring to the skid marks)
Also, holy shit I never realized how different the 6ft and 4ft models were. 6ft definitely looks better, and the Picard model seems to match that most closely, especially the deflector and thinner edge to the saucer
I think *some* of the super-panel detail in Picard is likely partially impacted by the way they're handling reflection mapping - obviously the current lighting model seems to play a lot more withe different levels of panel reflectivity, moreso than panel colour I think. I think, even, it *may* have the aztecing you gentlement said was missing - but it doesn't seem to be done with colour but with reflectivity/luminosity.
As to the window... cowling? The outwards extrusion. I find it interesting that the shot from the ep10 trailer gets close enough that you *should* be able to see that, but it's not visible. It seems extremely odd that they'd change it but it's possible that someone in the crew spotted it as much as you. If I wanted to headcanon the difference... maybe the extruded frame was some kinda drydock artefact from the repair? I can't imagine that there's many details known to be structurally sound after bumping into a planet.
On the escape pods, the ones on the Picard model seem to have a very different structural design, because it looks - to me at least - that they've added some kinda internal structure instead of the flat, numbered cowling of the 6ft model. Again, if I wanted to be generous, maybe the Picard one is showing more of the lifeboat structure, and the cowlings have been removed for maintenance?
Andrew Probert's design for the Enterprise D was the last time I feel that a Star Trek production truly made a futuristic iteration on the design of starships in the franchise. Ever since then, ship designs have begun to look to the history of the franchise for their designs and that makes me sad. I want Star Trek to be about the future again and not just a nostalgia vehicle.
NCC-1701-D is the ultimate nostalgia vehicle that seats 3,000 and goes Warp 9.7 (nitpickers - these are only placeholder numbers!)
Just my creative answer about the lights, but maybe the lights are the rooms that Geordi has repaired and the unlit rooms are still trashed. 😊
Wouldnt it be better to wait until ep10 to do a detailed comparison? Will you do another? Looks like there'll be lots more close ups and such.
Yes we will do another :)
I don't know if the initial shot version was unfinished...but looking at this week's teaser version the windows don't seem to extrude and even the placement is different more like the studio model, phaser strips look corrected. Did they do another complete model or something idk.
The 4ft model has Ten Forward, the lights are off. Why who knows, Guinan is always in there.
I don't see a roller door like you are describing. If you zoom in the shapes are right, the lighting gave an illusion of wrong shapes
Absolutely love the detail and historical background information on the various D models used for the series over the years. Great retrospective and comparative analysis on one of the most beloved ships in all of sci-fi. All I can say is that I hope to god they don't destroy or damage her severely in the next episode, PLEASE!!
Just a small correction for Sam, the correct word to describe the escape pods is "protruding"
Nitpicking the nitpickers, gotta love it!
Windows have just been retrofitted with double glazing, got to meet new energy standards
🤣
The lights looked like they were on in various rooms because because Geordi was still fixing the ship up and didn't close a lot of the doors.
Hence when the hall lights went on the hall light passed through those open doors and shone out the windows.
The Phaser strip on the nacelle struts is also different, on the models and CGI ones, its on the strut curve, on the Picard model, its been moved towards the actual nacelle, and at the front of it.
Probably it's depends on ship types(eg. vessel carrier, battlecruser, medical, research vessel, etc) and console systems. Quantum negative energy phaser is suggested to set in every ship, do you think so?
also if you look at the sacucer in this episode at the name and the sneak peak you can she she has re entry and scultch marks from her last mission damga on virenet 3.
As Geordie has been tinkering the ship back together from other Galaxy Class ships over 20+ years, so its going to be a ptachwork, due to changes in design during the service duration of this class of ship. And what's to say he hasn't done some further tinkering under the hood to improve its performance in some areas such as drive performance and weapons/shield tech as well. Either way, as long as NCC-1701-D survives the season finale then I'll be happy, but I would love to see D in Star Trek Legacy or another spin-off as the main ship character.