Does Spray Foam Soundproof a Floor? Lets Test it!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- How well will spray foam protect against noise transfer from footfall?! Matt runs around with his sound meter to test!
**This video is a primer for the #buildshow on Friday!
www.mattrisinge...
/ risingerbuild
TLDR: spray foam sucks. Adding a double drywall ceiling with some sort of isolation (green glue), or additional mass on the floor above are going to be the best improvements. You want air tightness to reduce transmission, and isolation+mass to reduce sound conduction. Insulation can Sometimes help with air tightness, but personally I would use it to reduce echoes.
Not to dork out, but you need a control. Better test would be same room, same location of meter and same sound (consistent volume) in room b4 and after spray foam.
When I built my studio (30x50) in an industrial building, I added a layer of sound board and another layer of drywall between the office and studio space. On the windows, I added 2 more layers of glass of different thicknesses and distance between layers, which cuts different frequencies. In the studio on top of 5/8" drywall, I added another layer of 5/8" drywall attached to Z metal. You couldn't hear traffic a from the nearby 4 lane boulevard except at 3:15pm; everyday a guy on a crotch-rocket would leave work.
On the ceiling and part way down the 12 ft. wall, 1" duck board insulation was laid flat. It preformed very well to reduce a major amount of reverb in an open space, , but cost $1200 at the time.
With time and money, we can achieve most anything we can think of. Cheers
My dad used to have us put 1/2 plywood and felt paper over it . Then we nailed down 5/8 particle board for a nice quiet and WARM floor . We then used putty on all the particle board joints.
This is the way I learned as well. Build it like a fish tank!
I use to be a Builder and Developer of high-end homes .. wood is a poor sound barrier, instead it's a good conductor of sound. You would need to float both the floor and floor joist to reduce sound transmission. Look into products like _U-Boat Floor Floaters_ or other similar products.
D Jaquith great comment - the floating system you refer to helps reduce the transmission of low frequency sounds, and that's what tends to bother everyone... and also love the fact that you will use the phrase "reduce sound". These people are perpetrating a myth when they use the word "soundproof".
Any insulation, is only part of the total solution. Spray foam air seals, it helps with mid and high frequencies and finding air gaps. Combine with fiberglass/rockwool, to close up between joists to stop the space from being a resonator. Then, decouple from the joists. RC then add mass with double drywall. This addresses "foot stomping" and pets nails.
Would be interesting to see more information about the framing that took place. Stud spacing and floor truss spacing to carry the additional load. From the first few seconds of the video, if stud spacing is 16" centers, trusses look to be 19.2" centers with simple math and where they land on studs.
Love your videos but would love to see more details so we can be educated enough to ask our structural engineer about other options.
If my kids are upstairs stomping around, I tell them to KNOCK IT OFF!
I'm not doing that now.. But in 6 months when we get that extension...
OK, Hillary. I'm sure they'll listen just like megacorporations.
Can't do that if you are in a duplex .
Knock what off of what?
@@doubledarefan IT!! knock IT off!!
I want to see more of the lower level curved stairway, looks very interesting.
You will also find a significant reduction in speaking noise transmission once the drywall encloses a dead air space, not so much with impact transmission though.
There is a video on it.
Thanks Ian, I will look on Matt's site.
Must say that is a huge house 🏡
Got the windows open mate
look like wire for concrete on the floor? That will really cut the sound
Krispin Gord it looks like to me that they're going to install a concrete like product called bomanite.
Our home in Houston was flooded recently, so we had black mold and lots of damage...total loss. Now we want to use open cell foam but what we got from Fema is literally almost gone and we have not yet fixed the interior, that is floors, walls, insulation on the attic and walls, ac ducts (full of black mold), electricity and so on.
So my question is...can we use close cell foam with ridgit foam board? what we want is to stop water on the walls at least half of them, stop the grow of mold which we have a huge issue on the walls (inside)...can we do that?
We do not want to use fiberglass to avoid the same problem..water soaking it and black mold growing like crazy.
Our budget is very very very tight so we need to combine the close cell foam with something else. the depth is 3 inches and 8 feet tall walls.
Thank you
That staircase is sexy as heck!
That's why I came down to the comments section. That is a gorgeous structure
How do you sound insulate the perfect wall house?
After install the floor and the sheetrock is going be better sound proof
But how does it compare to Roxio Safe n’ sound?
There’s no science to this test. You need mass, not gimmicks to reduce energy transmission through boundary walls. Products for reduction of reflections (high mid and high frequency reverberation) like spray foam are not suitable for noise suppression. Even “green glue” is a sham. Mass, mass, mass. And each type of material will only be affective at certain frequency ranges. Air-sealed, air-gapped, and multiple layers of material is the way: this means, hire the pros, or you’ll spend thousands more than you need on gimmicks.
This would be way more accurate to put the DB meter about a foot away from the floor in the center.
Dense pack cellulose is better for noise reduction!!!
Would this work for drums?
RHINO Sound control th-cam.com/video/ShPdFnJkMNs/w-d-xo.html
You need to close the room off, when shouting the sound meter is picking up the sound through the passageway vs through the floor.
Open cell does some sound control but closed cell can actually increase noise by coupling .Your test is false as the fibreglass pink helps control you voice.
Make sure you mention yours is open cell.
Thanks for sharing. With 20% of your floor area being solid wood, you,re not off to a good start.
There is a glare on the meter, can't see it clearly.
Your wall insulation in that house looks overly compressed, you losing a large r value by that.
Yeah this house could be of soundproofed but unfortunately not fire resistant..
I did it with the Woodglut plans.
If your kids are stomping around then get them something to play with... Your own dam fault.
Its an important topic, but you aren’t qualified to speak on it. Why don’t you host an acoustician and use a real ANSI test. Its like a video of a car mechanic hosing down a roof and saying I tested the roof tiles and they work.
you need to do a baseline test to see if the spray foam actually worked or not.
Sorry this is like listening to a snake oil sales man. The cheap sound level meter seem to make it scientific but the sound level meter has a noise floor of 40 dB. That is pretty lousy. Even with a lowest building code you should meet 45+ dB reduction between upstairs and downstairs. So if you talk at a sound level of 70 dB you want to measure something below 25 dB... well the sound level meter does not even show anything below 40 dB. So the video does not proof anything. Matt should really do this show in a finished home and not in a home that is under construction. The reduction of the floor is really a combination of the gypsum boards, isolation system, absorption in the cavity, etc. In the 2nd example without foam on the ceiling there is an open stairway right next to the room. I bet the main path of the sound goes right up the stairways. I don't think this video proofs anything about the spray foam.
Yeah, this was ridiculous. The stomping was even more ridiculous. That meter will be averaging levels over at least one second, so unless he manages to stomp about 10 times per second, the displayed sound level is going to be nowhere near the peak.
Charles Could Installing ceramic tiles be an option to prevent/almost mute sound transfer from heavy steps from upstairs to downstairs?
The main point of this was to show that spray foam is not purposed for sound deadening, but for thermal insulating, although it will have a natural tendency to deaden minimally. That's the reason why they have the spray foam on the ceiling of the garage and not on the ceiling anywhere else.
I agree. The problem with acoustics is that it is like rocket science. Everybody thinks they have a grasp of the basics but hardly anybody has unless they have studied it at an academical level. Don't believe you understand it even after you have learned it because you will fool yourself into thinking you have a solution that won't work. Footsteps resonate through the joists and walls meaning you need to create a floating room that is not connected to the floor or walls through non-elastic parts.
Totally agree with you. That was not a test. That was a joke.
+1 on foam insulation not doing shit for noise. Paid good money for this in my house 10 years ago and it was not worth it
Just use rockwool, resilient channels and 5/8 drywall to soundproof anything else is a waste of time.
I did this and its ok. But, I wish I used 2 layers of drywall
@@didafm If its only "ok" you did it wrong
@@fivestar2227 how so? I used rockwool safe and sound with and air gap above and below. And used res bar and then 5/8 fire proof drywall... its good but I can still hear my basement tenant move sometimes...noise travels thru the ducts there is no way to address that.
@@didafm If they are rigid metal vents and your able to switch them to flex that might work for you. If you have an air gap above and below the rockwool that space would have been better loaded with more dense sound deadening rockwool.
@@fivestar2227 i could see that working...but videos I watched on TH-cam said to leave an air gap between layers....next time I would do 1 layer of 5/8 and 1 layer of 1/2 i think that would have been amazing
Double sheetrock your walls over insulation,same with the ceiling it works a lot better, just watch a video on it, works great and not that much.
could only imagine this being a worthwhile test if you did before and after spray foam in the same room. A little better planning would have made all the difference!!
Obviously it would not have made much difference. That's the point.
I live in Karachi Pakistan I like your comments send 4 month ago
@@Cotronixco I live in Karachi Pakistan I like your comments if you don't mind
@@Cotronixco actually just spray foam and a studded wall filler with recycled newspaper or jean is completely soundproof. no extra drywall, no dead space. Being in construction Im amazed more people dont know that.
Had 4" of closed cell sprayed inside older home roof so I could open up ceiling height. Rain not as loud but still can hear it, along with aircraft and road noise. I also put 1/8" acoustic matt (250lbs a roll) on traffic side wall before 5/8" sheetrock. Can't justify QuietRock cost but now the source of noise are the windows...😐
Spray foam SUCKS for soundproofing!
This video is really an unfair comparison. If it was me I would have like a boom box let's say in the upper floor.
Play a file that generates a certain DB of sound before the spray foam is applied. Then redo the same test with everything in the exact same position and boom box sound levels, and redo the test. Room sizes can generate different DB level acoustics based on size, material, etc.
Most of the sound is transferred directly thru the structure, the floor joists, not the open cavity between. You have to insulate over the structure to really do anything significant
Decouple or float the floor? I am trying to figure this out for an attic music studio. Maybe 2" rigid Rockwool foam board w/ 2 layers of OSB?
With 2 inch spray foam on a cathedral ceiling you can really hear the rain, with cellulose added it is very quiet.
In an unfinished home there's so many factors impacting sound. Should've waited until things were almost done then do a test before & after foam is added to the same room.
The only economic and effective way to deaden a floor in construction is to isolate (decouple) the deck and ceiling from the joists. (There is a more effective solution see the end). Increasing the mass, (eg using concrete) would work, but be very costly.
Most of the vibration in conventional home construction isn't through the air space, but through air penetrations and directly transferred between the deck and ceiling through the joists. That structure it acts as a unified rigid membrane within each set of walls. Some damping can be done by placing a dissimilar material between the tops of the joists and the deck but this material needs to bear the floor's loading, so can't block very low frequency vibration.
If the ceiling is suspended from hangers with elasticity under tension, or by a light joists that are isolated from the loadbearing one of the floor above, only the air can couple the floor to the ceiling. The mass of the ceiling will act to dampen higher frequencies, partially through cathat sound. A ceiling composed of isolated pieces would be more effective tha a similar material installed as a continuous sheet, and tiles made of alternating layers of rigid and elastic materials will be more effective at converting vibration to heat than a conventional ceiling with one layer of sprayed on foam -regardless of the thickness of the foam layer.
Compare the costs of these techniques against carpet floor covering with a dense pad. The carpet will cost less and reduce sound better than a poured concrete floor.
I'll give you that foam will reduce sound but just by a few decibels and particularly with higher frequencies but will do close to nothing at isolating bass. The typical misunderstanding between sound absortion and isolation is that foams and light, absorbent materials reduce sound transmission when they only reduce sound reflection but keeps traveling through these materials. MASS is the only way to isolate sound, these are heavy compact materials such as concrete, steel, glass, etc.
So, if you are looking to reduce the noise from upstairs don't waste your money in foams and better add a layer or two of plywood, OSB or even sheetrock to your ceilings and make sure the gaps between them and the perimeter are filled with mastic. Recessed lights and such should be boxed in plywood too and sealed with mastic.
Great videos btw, thank you for taking the time to make them and sharing !
See all the steel reinforcement he's walking on? On the upstairs floor? They're going to pour lightweight concrete on the upstairs floor. GUESS WHAT? The lightweight concrete, or tile over cork or dense rubber underlayment or even OSB will isolate noise from upstairs and not allow it to travel through the framing members to the floors below.
What most people don't know is that the sound will transmit through the floor joists!
So, the only effective sound dampening is to separate the floor joists from the floor surface. See above: Lightweight concrete, tile over cork or even OSB over the underlayment. Isolation. Physics.
Matt, What about the reverse - from the first floor to a second floor room on the opposite side ? Would spray foam reduce the noise?
Spray foam sucks for sounds. Sprayed a 2x6 wall. One side bathroom one side garage. Can hear through it clear as day. A perfect house is 2x8 structure, 6 inches of foam and then roxul for sound on top of that. Not to mention it's a fire barrier
lolMyke I like that assembly!
I agree. I put a little closed cell foam around a shower that was next to a bedroom. It may as well not even be there. I think closed cell foam may actually amplify the noise.
Totally true. I put spray foam around my dishwasher, and no change. It is too light. A heavier mass is needed to dampen sound. Live and learn.
Yes you 100%correct 6in ruxul spray is not good the amount you need to just get the effect ruxul does I tell owners that because lying to make buck come on foam no good and advice one side wall I understand get more if you roxual all walls and ceiling because them sound waves bounce and have to exit point and as you said fire proof lol is a house really ever fire proof how many house you think burnt to ground and roxual went with it fire proof closed cell if sprayed and sealed proper is best watch videos is good and they are working sound proof foam give 2 years tecnogly will create it and then every one be bitching cause it will be$ 5.00sq.ft because it sound proof fire proof closed cell in one they will eventually male all insulation gone no anything open cell gone they will have one kind that does it all and there changing codes to point where there forcing people switch foam we do alot brand new house and there all pretty much foam invest now before you have to and if can get in the bussnies next 5 years company's be banking and then it will be normal steady bussnies
Need a control. This proves nothing.
When I built my studio (30x50) in an industrial building, I added a layer of sound board and another layer of drywall between the office and studio space. On the windows, I added 2 more layers of glass of different thicknesses and distance between layers, which cuts different frequencies. In the studio on top of 5/8" drywall, I added another layer of 5/8" drywall attached to Z metal. You couldn't hear traffic a from the nearby 4 lane boulevard except at 3:15pm; everyday a guy on a crotch-rocket would leave work.
On the ceiling and part way down the 12 ft. wall, 1" duck board insulation was laid flat. It preformed very well to reduce a major amount of reverb in an open space, , but cost $1200 at the time.
With time and money, we can achieve most anything we can think of. Cheers
I’m curious to know you’ve displayed sound proof membrane I believe was a product from Keene how does if compare
Worst. Science. Ever. That's not how you test something. Anyway, spray foam does almost nothing to block sound. Carpet would work well. Drywall would work better than carpet. I know, let's bury the house in concrete and Matt, you watch and see if that meter registers the roar of laughter outside.
I ve been watching Moe sargi for like a year now. watching this video i can literally see how he was hearing footsteps from upstairs still knowing theres no one upstairs. Dayam.
Thats a nice staircase, not gonna make a squeek ever. Looks tedius as fuck to build though lol
This house ain't normal. That entry is bigger than my whole house !
This is a house for the 1%. Not normal folk.
he lives in texas so the homes they build there are typically very large.
Anything is bigger than a cardboard box, LOL!
Yep. Puts my house to shame.
This was the silliest test, if you can call it that....ever
Sound waves travel most effectively through dense encapsulated structures( Spray foamed), Isolating materials that vary in density, is what reduces the sound waves ability to conduct through the structure.
@Laura Brown There is virtually no soundproofing from those curtains. Read the Amazon reviews for those products using the search term "noise reduction". Complete waste of money if purchasing for sound proofing.
@@elympicrecords2434 She's a troll... I see "her" same comments on many of the noise reduction vids I am researching.
No wonder US houses are so dirt cheap. Are they really just made out of timber and I assume plasterboard? Walls should be concrete or concrete blocks. Floors maybe timber but my last flat also had concrete between floors as well. What stops them going up in flames? I suppose the reason they get washed away in floods is because being timber they are light and float. Everything being timber just looks so weird and flimsy.
mbaker335 ... And yet we have 'stick built' homes in the US dating back to the colonial era. Don't be deceived by appearances; if built' correctly timber construction is sturdy and durable.
Matt, in New England we rarely see 1 1/8 sub floor. Mostly 3/4.
Do you think it is that much of an improvement when using 16 OC
Floor framing?
Thanks
I wish i had this... howling neighbor dogs fuck!
open cell????ummmm,,no
We're going to tell you on Friday's version? Bye!
I'd be more worried about using open cell foam it's a huge growing bed for mold......
Use closed cell always better more money but no air pockets as open cell does and be sure you hire known company you won't regret
Only if there is a constant source of moisture ~60% relative humidity for >48 hours. Mold will not grow unless moisture is present. If there is that much moisture constantly the building will rot. I'm a licensed Mold Remediator
I've used hat channel underneath floor joists prior to hanging sheet rock. It seemed to work quite well, although I didn't use sound measuring devices.
What is better on an existing basement ceiling? Existing drywall+woodfiberboard+RC channel+additional 5/8" drywall. VS " "+ RC channel+5/8" drywall+green glue +5/8" drywall.
Interesting experiment. The fact that sound travels through solid material beats any absorption by the foam. A good “soft & thick” carpet will help a lot. Shame the camera polaroid filter was blackening the noise meter screen.
Red wing boots 👍are the best
would be good if we could see the reading at your sound level meter
Umm......... you have an open stairwell, and the sound can simply travel down there. WHAT A STUPID TEST!
This is a terrible video.
Nice house!
This video is bound to give laypeople some wrong ideas about sound transmission. Matt, it is out of a love for your channel and a much older, deeper love for acoustics that I implore you to PLEASE stick to construction topics and leave the acoustics talk to experts (show guests?) who can speak authoritatively on the topic.
Roxul is a great sound attenuation material with isolated drywall
I live in Karachi Pakistan I like your comments
@Laura Brown I live in Karachi Pakistan I like your comments send 4 month ago
Spray foam is somewhat effective but sound energy still travels down the joists. Resilient strips (Z-shaped channel) and two layers of 5/8" drywall is the way to go.....the mass of the drywall cancels out the deflection by the sound waves traveling through the joists.
That is some DANG-SOLID Woodworking and reinforcement. Impressive.
why not mass loaded vinyl?
Matt I love your videos. What do you think about that bat insulation by Owens Corning that is design for sound reduction between walls? I didn't really notice a difference but was wondering what you thought about it. Looking forward to more of your videos. It's the best building videos I've seen on TH-cam.
Has anyone mentioned that 10db difference (65 vs 55) means no-spray-foam is twice as loud? Decibel is on logarithmic scale.
who cares, 65 is still loud as hell
😬
cellulose is the way to go ;)
You have to have a quality AV guy in your area. Have them come out and do a show and tell on sound transference. (sound proofing ain't going to happen unless you really care to drop some coin)
If you don't know one I am close and would be happy to refer someone to you. Otherwise your game is always on point.
Sorry to be negative but the quality of the insulation install makes me wonder, look over his shoulder at 3:50, how packed and in even it is. it needs to be as unpacked and puffy as possible, that's how it works.
We used this same material for living space over a 3 car garage. The major annoyance is from the electric garage door operators, bolted to the garage ceiling. Hardly hear sounds from the garage or living space above. Our focus was on a cold floor, sound proofing was not a consideration.
wasn't much of a test!!!!!!!!!
Most of the vocal energy is being absorbed by the open insulation. Spray foam will be good for preventing sound transmission because it seals openings. But it doesn't have the mass to absorb any significant amount of energy. My guess is that it will be better at damping than say wall board.
Definitely not a worthy test of soundproof testing. Spray foam will not attenuate those long "base" sound waves... you need more mass. Nice try Matt.
what kind offloor are u puting in ht e bonus room?
That house is f’ing massive
you do know that spray foam is that toxic and dangerous only america and few other country use it it is banned everywhere else as it not good at insulation and fumes that come of it is not good for you just saying not trying to start everything
this place is huge
test at 3:30
resilliant channel takes care of 90% of thru-floor sound transmission provided there are no direct air paths.
I wonder where is the "Quiet Rock" or am I a little early.
Thinking of using quiet rock on my basement ceiling to separate my unit from upstairs tenants. Both ceiling open in basement and flooring ripped up upstairs now. Any other suggestions?
The reason there wasn't a change is because the vibrations travel through the exposed wood framing. I would bet that if you cover the wood with foam you would notice a difference.
Matt, do you put these sheets of pink insulation in the inner walls (between rooms) for sound proofing as well? Thank you.
alteragnostik Fiberglass thermal insulation doesn't help with sound insulation much at all. Thermal insulation works by creating air space to trap air. But sound insulation needs to be more dense to absorb sounds vibration.
Double bottom plate your pouring self leveling concrete to sound proof been around for ever.
If your wanting to soundproof there are better products than spray foam.
Is that tarpaper and either some sort of a light duty “rebar” for tile? Or is it the heating coils for heating a floor?
I wouldn't mind to see if you used closed cell insulation???
Spray foam actually makes it WORSE. It binds all surfaces together and worsens mechanical transfer. Don't do it if soundproofing is your goal.
I read that is true for closed cell, but not open.
Test it with a drum set! Or low bass guitar amp