How to know if your square is square? (how to)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2024
- I’ve seen many people state that we should not be trusting our framing squares when checking our joinery for square. I’ve heard statements that as many as 60% to 70% of the framing squares we buy from the big box stores are not square. I simply found that hard to believe. Heck, square is right in the name of the tool… Framing Square. So how to check if your framing square is square? In this video I’ll show you. It’s easy to give your combination square, or framing square, or carpenters square a test for square. I hope you enjoy the video.
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Hey, if you haven't already tossed the old square, try this technique and you might bring it back true. Get a center punch and an anvil (or your bench vise, something metal of substance to strike against) and put one or more well-placed dimples in the metal of the square, which will spread out and stretch the metal, opening or closing the blade and tongue. Keep the dimples about 1/4" from the straight edge so as to not distort it, and group them together if you have to do more than one. Pound them into the outside corner if the square is more than 90 degrees to close it, or into the inside corner if it's less than 90 to open it up. Re-check for square after each dimple to get a feel for how much you're moving it. You should be able to get a few more dances out of the old girl! At the very least, you could shoot an interesting video of the adjustment.
Yep, I learned that technique after tossing them away. Oh well, next time I'll give it a try.
I think what you did was generally good but using the tape measure to confirm if the hypotenuse of the triangles were true is not reliable because of the difficulty in determining where the lines intersect and making an accurate mark and measurement of the dimensions. A large divider instrument may help to produce a better measurement. Also, when comparing the repeatability of my tape measures, they are off.
That's fair
I was looking for a video to remind myself of the 345 math method. Thank you!
You're welcome. Thanks for watching.
I fully agree with JusBidniss's comment below. Just about any framing square can be adjusted using a center punch.
I agree but my video was just about how square they are of the shelf.
Intelligent ways to measure the validity of squareness hitherto not known or told by others flooded on TH-cam about squareness.
Thank you
Wow..... great method to square a square!!! Good job
Thanks
Math is hard! :)
I bought a large square from Lowe's and I remember having issues when I was marking across a sheet of ply from both sides and not meeting up. I brushed it off.
I thought it was the plywood not perfect. I may have to check that large square as you did.
I also bought two more large squares at a yard sale around the corner for me for $1 each.
Old guy selling off tools, a bargain. But now I think I should test those too.
(He had a lot of other goodies as well for cheap like a Magnesium circular saw, plumbing stuff and wooden flag.)
Thanks for the video!
Yeah, I was pretty shocked to see these results actually. My old one was the only one that was probably off enough to make a difference for my work, but I really thought they all were going to be square.
Buen video gracias...
De nada. Gracias por ver.
Before you shitcan your squares, you can put a dimple with a punch in the inside or outside corner . This will expand the metal in the corner to draw the blade open or closed and back to square. Do this in small taps so not to overshoot. There are vidios to demonstrate this. Also place sand paper on a glass surface and sand square to remove any unevenness or nicks in blade especially at end where may have been damaged during use. The sand paper on glass should give best flat surface.
Hope this helps.
M L Rogers.
Fixing with a dimple I've heard of and seen. The sand paper I had not heard of. One of the squares seemed to go out of square half way up so the dimple method wouldn't have worked but sanding may have. These are so inexpensive I just went and replaced. Thanks for the sanding tip, new for me.
I squared up several small speed squares (from harbor freight and big box stores ) using sand paper on a glass table top truing the flanged side first, then testing against my framing square till no light will pass between edges and usually they stay true. Thanks for your vidios
M L Rogers
Tip using squares,
When cutting down a tree, place a speed square on a 2' level and while holding it level look up the 45' angle to tip top of tree and draw an imaginary line to ground, that's point where your tree top will reach when fallen. At least you'll know if tree will hit house or other object
@@outcast7899 Never thought of that. I actually have a couple trees in my back yard that need to come donw. I'll remember this.
Very good test. I liked it. What I miss are links in the description box (and/or prices) of the squares which are good.
Thank you for pointing that out. Silly of me to leave that out. Here is the link on Amazon for the main square that I use as I proved it to be square: amzn.to/2S5JL3W
Thank you, now I have an excuse when my work is out of square! :)
exactly!
Thanks for sharing. I like your straight edge. It is think. Where can I buy one? and what is it called?
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This stretched the realm of mind at times, but I was able to follow along with you and it was a. Dry informative video. Especially bc I own that first square from Empire and use it everyday. Colin Knecht has a good video on squares too. He only relies on the type of squares you had. He never uses a combination square. He says they are the least reliable. Of course at certain times he said he uses it but not for a critical measurement. Thanks for sharing this great info. Be careful and stay safe.
Thanks for watching. I was completely shocked that the squares were not square.
I did my combination square from empire and the results out the box
Perfect square
They can be tuned if you has to
excellent
Thank you
It would have been better if you measured the deviation from square. The best way to do it is to use the flip-line method, except do not put the lines on top of each other. Instead just put them very close to each other. Then measure the spacing between the lines at the bottom and near the top, also recording the distance between the two places where you measured the spacing. Then arctan( (space2 - space1) / distance ) is equal to twice the deviation angle from square. If you have a caliper / micrometer, it is probably the best tool to use for measuring the spacing.
For example, if you measure 0.03-in at the bottom and 0.09-in at the top, which are separated by 24-in, then twice the deviation angle is arctan( (0.09 - 0.03) / 24 ) = 0.14-deg, so the deviation angle is half that at 0.07-deg. Meaning the square is 89.93-deg (or 90.07-deg if the second line was to the left of the first)
Thanks. I did not know that math. That would have been better to know the exact angle. I was simply testing to see if they were square. I was surprised to see the 2 not square. I figured if that noticeable by my eye then definitely not worthy of using to check my joints for square.
A tenth of a degree deviation is actually okay for most applications. Most of the tools people use to measure angles directly (digital protractors, or one of those magnetic boxes that you stick on a table saw blade or whatever) have an accuracy of worse than 0.1-deg
Also, you would be unfairly penalizing the longer squares compared to the shorter ones if you go by the spacing at the top, because for the same angle of deviation, the spacing at the top will be larger for the longer squares.
I agree with all your statements. Of you are building small items not a big deal, but if building a bookcase and of 1/16" over 20" that's way too much. For me it's all about can you really see it with your eyes or do you need a tool. Of you need a tool then it is fine.
I strongly disagree that 1/16-in over 20-in is "way too much" angular deviation when building a bookshelf. That is 0.18-deg. As I wrote previously, the instruments used to measure angles are mostly not accurate to as good as 0.1-deg. Your table-saw, miter-saw, and band-saw certainly are not going to be accurate to better than 0.1-deg in most cases. And even if your square is perfect, the wood you are measuring is rarely perfectly flat and clean. It only takes the smallest amount of deviation from flatness or speck of wood to give you a 0.1-deg deviation when you place the square against a board. So there have been numerous bookcases built where the cuts are 0.1- or 0.2-deg out of square. And those bookcases are fine.
totally respect your opinion and at my skill level I have created several boxes/ book shelves that have been off that amount or more. Those bookshelves certainly do no fall down or break, but they either have noticeable gaps or noticeably out of square. At this rate a 4' bookcase would be of almost 3/16 and 6' bookcase would be of almost 1/4". That's more than I'd like. Yes the bookcase would be fine and maybe I'd be the only one that notices since i built it. Either way, I'm using the proven more accurate square. You sound like you really know what you are doing and i fully admit in learning a lot as i go so maybe at some point I'll change my opinion but for now in striving for much better accuracy.
Thank you for taking the time to post this.
You are welcome. Glad it helped you.
Thanks for the tests, very handy! BTW, at 2:00 your shirt collar looks pretty square. :)
Gotta stay square
Very useful, thanks.
You are welcome. Thanks for watching
Thank you for the informative video.
You are welcome and thanks for the comment
Nice video. Thanks
You are welcome. Thanks for watching.
Awesome video! Subbed and looking forward for more informative videos.
thank you. I really appreciate it.
Doing building layout I never trusted projecting a framing square to twice its length. Used the 3,4,5 lots. Bigger the better. Hypotenuse of 25’ inside and 50’ outside the building weren’t uncommon. Often measuring to the 32nd of an inch if we could.
Yeah, when working with larger dimensions the 3 4 5 method is a great way to go.
Why not figure what the hypotenuse should be from from the longest point on the body to the same point on the tongue. Most construction calculators can solve for any hypotenuse.
You could, but then you are trying to measure something like 20.325674 inches which is not easy.
I had that problem with a T-square one
yeah. I'm now suspect of all my squares. Thanks for watching.
Yup ... I knew it ... and this proves it ... you are a big square .,.. Great video ...
P.S. is that my old Square?!
Well i was very surprised with the outcome. Nope, you probably left your old square on a roof some where.
Cool video. I enjoyed it up until the 5:35 mark. I then experienced clear fluid leaking from my right ear. Upon waking 27 minutes later I realized it was the math that caused it.
ha! Not only is math hard, it can be painful as well. Thanks for watching!
great vid, instead of not using the ones that are not square re-square them?
Thought about that but figured for less than $10 start over. Was worried that once they get re- squared they now may be weakened a bit and would go out of square again at some point and me not notice.
This is the DUEBEL Combination Square 12” Horizontal Square Stainless Steel Multi-Function Carpentry Squares Right 90 Degree Angle Ruler Woodworking Square: www.amazon.com/gp/product/B088879YHB
That looks pretty darn fancy. Do you have it? Do you like it?
This dude's a gentleman and his fingers are thicker than my damn neck.
Thanks for watching.
A little late to this party, but your old friend responsible for the Pythagorean theorem is Pythagoras...
Party doesn't start until you get here. Thank you fur the correction.
Tell me you didn’t throw that square away!
Okay, I will not tell you that, but one of them I did. The other I returned. I know about the punching nipples to correct the angle but I now have two good squares. Also the one I tossed the angle was 90, it went out of square at about 6 inches so the blade was not straight which is harder to fix.