Is Music College Worth the Price?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 มี.ค. 2017
- I graduated summa cum laude from Berklee College of Music. Here are some things worth considering based on my experience.
Download my FREE 7-T Jazz Practice Framework at bobsvirtualstudio.com
--
the article i mention www.marketplace.org/2017/02/2...
#berklee #berkleecollegeofmusic #musicschool
![[TH] VCT Pacific Stage 2 - Week 1 Day 1 // DRX vs ZETA | BLD vs TS](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/AWaOqaxN6Y0/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TH] VCT Pacific Stage 2 - Week 1 Day 2 // GEN vs T1 | PRX vs TLN](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZkFjjJNwzH0/mqdefault.jpg)
"It's an amplifier not a generator" FANTASTIC -- it's like a microphone - you get out what you put in - yes!
really interesting to watch this video from the perspective of being a current berklee student - bob is not kidding when he mentions the shark tank. the analogy of berklee to an amplifier is spot on. berklee doesn't make people good... people get good because they practice and know how to network.
chord #2!
Yeaaaaaaa man
WOOOOOOOOOO hit the nail on the head there, man!
Bob, So refreshing to see a Jazz musician under the age of 70 who actually cares about other people. I went to UNT in the 70's and got an ocean of knowledge and paid $200/semester and saved money when I was done. I feel their pain. If I paid $250K for a degree I better get a boat out of it. These colleges cant sustain this policy. Shameful extorting money off young people.
i too went to NTSU in the 70"s, got a music ed degree, taught, retired and playing a bunch of gigs now. I knew at the time, a full time gigging musician is like an NBA player. Not too many players can make a steady living at only playing gigs. My back up plan was teaching which I still do on the side and loving it. Great advice Bob. Yes, $200 a semester was about right Sid. 4 to 5 years of college, 2 grand!
I got into Berklee in 1990 and didn't go, opting for a more traditional college path. Bob - I think you've just extinguished my lingering regret for not going. Thanks man.
Perhaps the wisest thing Bob says here is when he talks about having a "backup plan." If you're an artist, there is no backup plan. You will always fall back on something if you give yourself that option. The only way to get through as a musicians is to walk that wire with no net. That's what drives you to success.
It's not explicitly said, but the biggest takeawy from this imo is "If Bob Reynolds telling you to quit is enough to make you quit, you were never going to make it in the first place."
Man if someone likes music and another things, lets say math for example, and dedicate to both with passion and hardwork, he can do it!! The thing is, it’s not a question of safety net, it’s a question of time and hardwork no matter what other thing you’re doing. Herbie Hancock went to study in electronics before becoming what he’s known for
Exactly! If you are FIRST working on a back-up for any endeavor then you already are planning to fail or quit.
@@justforgame179 Tal Falow painted signs, Wes Montgomery recorded commercial albums. Everybody needs to eat.
The most important thing I learned from my music degree is that you don't need one.
Not that it was bad, I absolutely loved it, but music is a path you carve for yourself, and if you're not willing to do that without a degree then you're probably not going to do it with one either.
Great advice. I can totally relate to the Larry issue. Wanted to go to music school out of high school, but with Asian parents, that was discouraged. I ended up going to medical school and am now a physician. I have great friends and band mates that are pro-musicians, and AMAZING at their instruments, but man.....they struggle to keep things going. For years, I always asked myself if I should have pursued my dream of being a pro musician. But now, I am thankful that I went another route. Music will always be there, it doesn't leave you. Having "regular" career doesn't mean that you can't an incredible amount of fulfillment and satisfaction continuing to play music.
Great stuff, Bob. I always look forward to your vlogs. I like the 2nd chord.
Hi Bob! Revisiting your videos is always so good. Just wanted to tell you that you really inspire me. Your music inspires me, but your wisdom and how real you are about the things you say is so inspiring, too. Thank you very much.
(Can't wait for Runway by the way)
Thanks for the honesty Bob, lots of people need that.
Thanks for your words of wisdom! Awesome! 1st chord is my favorite of the two.
Awesome video! Chord #1 for a stable chord. I like your mention of the higher ed bubble. Found you from Janek. Great stuff thanks!
First chord! And thanks for answering that question for Larry! That reminded me of our talk at the saxophone camp, which was so life changing. I'm still at SIUE doin it up and going just for the jazz degree like we talked about! Thank you for all of your help! This video was super motivating!
bob, much respect! there are few people who gives the true reality behind that bubble. thanks 👍
Superb answer, Bob! With depth and heart. I am not concerned, but I am sure you are helping a lot! Respect.
Thank you for the advice
and I hope Larry won't give up
I am feeling colorfully anxious right now. Chord 2 jazzes me more at the moment. It has more purples and blues.
Great, honest, and thoughtful video Bob,
Great, honest and realistic advice Bob. Thank you on behalf of our readers, who most are beginners. They know you like we do, because of Janek Gwizdala. What you are and what you do go hand in hand. Wishing you much success!
Thank you so much for this! I'm going to university for accounting and pursuing music in my free time, I'm glad I'm taking this route!
great example and point of view Bob!! I my area it´s happens too that many graphic designers wanna pay so expensive schools, titles for CV and at the end are not creative, are not motivated for what is means to be a designer. Keep well and from Germany watching your videos and learning wirh your content, thanks so much Bob!!!
the 2nd one.
and this was an amazing video man. great attitude that I'm trying to develop myself also.
Well said, Bob. As a fellow Berklee grad, I couldn't agree with you more. Also, I prefer the 1st chord!
The first chord. Unless you're doing a crazy re-harm, then the second. LOVE your vlogs man. Please, don't stop uploading.
Thank you for your insights. Very enlightening!
Man, so dead-on! I've had this discussion with too many people/aspiring music professionals. The quintessential argument in terms of the preposterous rise in tuition costs, where the end does not necessarily justify the means. Thank you.
Thanks for posting this Bob! I only listened to it now. I will be 60 next year and going to retire, shifting my focus from being a Registered Nurse to music studies full time but not in a formal setting. I was never able to afford post secondary music school and felt like I missed a real opportunity. In retrospect I did not. I played in a military reserve band with professional level musicians in my early 20s. The standards were very high and most if not all of my band mates from back then still play. They all ultimately got "day jobs" in music. Going into debt to get a degree in music is nothing short of ridiculous. If I could talk to 20 year old me I would say get solid trade or skilled profession and stay focused on learning the craft, music ;O).
Great vlog Bob. (I dug the first chord)
You rock Bob! To be a unique and outstanding musician you have to be born with that gift, but if it's not the case, a school like Berklee might be one of too many options. After graduation I discovered that I had been learning such amazing theory things from both books and professors, but I was so far from being a real musician... To be a good one, you just have to be a dedicated person with ears and an instrument in your hands in the way to learn from such amazing sources out there, like recordings are. After all, without some motivation moved by the true love for music, there would be nothing else than laziness, hate, criticism, sadness and false regrets.
First chord. Thanks, Bob. I really needed an alumni's opinion on whether to go to Berklee or not, and that part on Berklee being an amplifier and not a generator is on-point. I'm a music student from Malaysia trying to follow up my music diploma with a better degree program at another Uni. I just don't know where to go, but after hearing you talk about Berklee, it puts things into perspective. I certainly don't wanna be $60 over grand in the hole. The music really comes from us, I suppose. Doesn't matter where I go to study my craft. Stitt didn't go to Berklee, neither did Sonny nor Coltrane. Quincy Jones went to Schillinger before it was called Berklee. We didn't love these musicians because they descended from this musical "olympus" , but because of their music!
These thoughts are such a great way to think about music school. I was fortunate to go to a well known music school, but music as a career can always be a struggle for some people, regardless of how talented they are. Dedication to music and effort will be determine more of how someone succeeds in music than how many degrees or what specific college they went to. The networks are amazing, but the dedication is much more important!
I am keeping on the right track to build the music career, and it has slowly become more successful. Hearing all of this was great to hear at the moment.
1st chord and massively dope vlog! ✌🏾👍🏾
straightforward advice. It's hard to rock all over the world dude. I'm from Brazil, tks. jazz on.
Thanks for all these Vlogs. You are a legend :)
Hard hitting vlog. Good stuff. On a lighter note: reassuring to see you're still doing the same reed prep technique as on that old Rico advert and chord choice: the first one (brighter).
aww man so good! Just graduated from a uni in Australia and couldn't agree more with the amplify-generator analogy.
2nd chord too!
Hi Bob,
Thank you for this video. I was denied by William Paterson University today for the jazz program. Although it burnt me a little, it has given me more motivation to make myself better-sans a competitive college program. Just as you said, I'm trying to learn the trade. The love of playing jazz gives me more impetus than the "support" of a place that only wants my money.
Once again, thank you. Thank you for ALL of these vlogs.
Larry Lenau What kind of major are you looking for?
Jazz performance.
Hey Bob - just curious if you ever heard back from "Larry" on this. You provided excellent advice and were spot on! To anyone considering music school I'd just like to throw out one more thing to think about:
There are so many avenues you can go down that don't involve being a gigging musician. So, so many! If you can get some production chops you could become a mixer, mastering engineer, recordist, sound designer, implementer of audio into game engines, composer, music editor, music arranger, audio editor (cleaning up audio). You can also become a sample library developer who records, edits and then implements audio files to create a virtual instrument that you can sell to others. Finally, there are so many industries out there that need custom original audio work. In my own journey I've had times of lots of gigging then lots of sound design, then lots of composing and so on. It goes through cycles. But I wouldn't have been able to do music full time without diversifying.
If you want to work as a gigging musician and are finding it hard to make ends meet with just that one approach, consider widening your net into some of the other roles mentioned above. While there's some learning involved - overall - there's a lot of overlap in skills. Best of luck to everyone!
Thanks again for the great video, Bob!
Bob, solid advice. I was at UNT in the ‘90s. Initially studying Jazz performance. I learned a ton there. The main thing I learned was I didn’t want to be a professional musician. It’s where I found my true calling. I ended up with a degree in Biochemistry. I’m now a research scientist. My advice to young people: be honest with yourself and listen for your true calling. I couldn’t be happier.
dang i like the chord progression. if i had to pick i'd go for the second one! nice vlog
That is very good advice Bob ,that was well said
I've lived out in the real world for about 4 years now. Im now 25 and accepted to Berklee, and I think the advice you gave was just all around good, honest life advice. I personally think Berklee has the programs I'm looking for when I compared to other colleges, community colleges etc, but its not the only way, and for many years I was convinced that Berklee would be "the destination". "The place where I'd get some kind of start" It's isn't, and no place ever will be because the truth is that life has already begun. There are always opportunities. It doesn't matter how prestigious the college is you choose, or isn't. Took me until the age of 24 to learn that. By now I have worked in the music industry full time for two years. It's not easy, but possible, and there are many avenues contrary to how it seems. It's entirely possible to find yourself going a different direction than you intended if you keep an open mind, too(many fields both in science, business and the arts overlap with each other). In my case, I still don't know if I'll even be at Berklee with the intention of finishing for the degree, but my reasons for going aren't for everyone. Hell if you really wanted to get me on a rant I could go for a while about how much of a scam college is. Berklee is still offensively overpriced, and no one should ever feel that's its the only best option if you want to become a musician because that simply isn't true
edit: I like the first chord better
Chord 2... Excellent vlog Bob.
Wow, great advice Bob!!!
Chord #1! Currently working as a Mechanical Technologist, it took 3 years out of my musical life but I got through college, working at a firm for about 5 years, I have 2 small children 2 and 4. I have a house and I can support them. I dont think there is anything wrong with having a plan b. Just dont loose YOUR path. Which is easily done. As an artist its gonna be tough no matter if you do get a trade or you are a full time position. You learn quickly that time is the most valueable thing in your life so dont waste it! The calender thing is a really good tool! Thank you!
I am in this exact same dilemma, trying to choose between electrician apprenticeship or jazz studies major at CSUN. Parents telling me not to take music but its honestly my life! i cant imagine not doing that as a career. This video has helped tremendously is realizing the reality of what the music industry is like today. Im still early in college and have the opportunity to change majors and because of this video im going to give up on my music dream and focus on what will feed my family. Thanks so much Bob this video was perfect timing for me. Sent from above!
Damn man. I feel you. I'm doing a B.Ed in Mathematics because its practical. You're not alone in this struggle. Much respect to you.
Love the voicing on the first chord!
Great video. Really liked the 2nd chord
I like the first chord better, great vlog!
I'm a Berklee alum and I totally understand where you are coming from; I'll be paying off the debt into my 40's, even though I had a good scholarship. It's ironic that the massive debt from music school can actually keep you from being a professional musician. So many of my friends have actually gone back to school to study a "practical" field so they can actually make money. I started Berklee as an older student; I already had a bachelors in Graphic Design, so that's what my current day job is right now. I did have a mostly great experience at Berklee and I don't regret going, but I question the value of a degree that expensive.
I can relate to this. I first took some general ed credits at another school but was not happy. So I transferred to the school I intended to go to sooner rather than later. Still wasn't any happier. The reality is I needed to take a break from music, but pushed on any way thinking it would pass.
Great advice. Also, Larry, if you're interested in music, but afraid of the low job market, you might try a music ed degree. You can balance your income and performance opportunities this way.
Chord 2!
"Berklee is an amplifier, not a generator." #truth Great vlog Bob! second chord!
Second cord for me. Excellent advise you gave to him here, too.
love the words of wisdom, they make sense
Great episode. I am one of the ones that is in student loan debt from going to school. I would tell anyone to be smart and do not get yourself into a huge amount of debt for a degree. It is not worth it. It is a burden that you will carry for most of your life. Berklee is an amazing school but you have to really be focused to make it worth it.
Enjoyed this. People sometimes forget that you can play music just for fun.
Killer vlog, man. Second chord, all the way!
They're both good voicings (the chords you played at the end) but the second chord has more tension in it which I personally like.
first chord. Great stuff. By the way, have you done a vlog on your video setup? If you have, please point me in that direction because it appears to be super slick and I'd like to know. Thanks!
First chord! Great to hear someone who's not afraid to voice their honest opinion on a difficult subject. Major 👍
Great post Bob well done 👍 spot on. 🙏🎷💫🍀🇦🇺🦘
Thank you Mr. Reynolds! Thought-provoking video! For the young musician aiming to become an artist, what alternatives to graduate school are there, if any?
Shoutout to "Larry". Keep on keeping on.
Also, I prefer the first chord. But I feel like that question might be just a social experiment to see how many people watched the whole video.
Hey bob i kind of liked the 2nd chord. Your awesome by the way.
Both chords are nice, can't really choose. Depends on the progression/voice leading
Hey Bob. Just watched this blog. Found it very interesting. Looked for a way to email you a question similar, but couldn't find an email address, so I figured I'd write a comment. This comment is open to anyone else that wants to give their opinion. I'm scheduled to audition for Berklee in November. My basic question is, should I go. Based off "Larry's" email, some things that are much different for me are that music is all I do, and I don't make any money from it. I spend hours just practicing, writing on average a song a day to get better at writing songs, playing open mics every week to test my songs to an audience, recording my songs for me to listen to. Music has always been my passion. It's like you said, there is no plan B, not because I'm just trying to be cliche, but simply because I love it. What I would like to major in is Composition to then get a Masters, and eventually a Ph.D. in Composition, and become a college professor talking every day about music theory, which I already do. So with all that said, the reason I want to go to Berklee is simply to learn the most I can from the best. Debt isn't even in my mind. Getting in won't be hard, not because I'm great, but because I worked hard and got good enough because I worked hard, and earned it. So what is your opinion on should I go to Berklee for my reasons? Would love to get some other peoples thoughts. Thanks.
It's an amplifier not a generator. Love that. Chord 1...
BWAHAHAHA- After that Grammy Winning Reality hitting speech, you ask, "which chord do you like better? " Dude! I 1,000% agree with you. Bob Reynolds, you are more than just a musician. You are an all around incredibly wise, very experienced Demi God. (but seriously, that last part was so necessary as a deep breath, comic release) #On a mission to watch every single video you've ever posted. :D #Dailydose
Now I know how determined I am about this music path I've chosen. I admire Bob for obvious reasons, (he's genuine and just the part he shows in "social media" is kind, talented, etc, etc)
And when he was giving the guy his advice I was listening as if the guy was myself, and my answer was NO WAY BOB. NO NET, NO BACKUP, NO SHIT, IT'S ALWAYS BEEN ABOUT MUSIC, ALL THE WAY, (sorry for yelling at you) but with that, I just knew that this is what I feel right, the right thing to do! If John Coltrane, Parker, and Miles came here right now telling me to quit,
First I would freak out cause that's a kinda impossible thing to happen, but secondly I would tell them to mind their own damn jazzy business. And also that I love them. But ye, one has to believe in oneself, and do what feels absolutely right, period.
First chord. Love the lesson in reality, Bob. There's some sound advice in there - about music, and about degrees in general.
I think it's crucial to note that a lot of killin' players today went to relatively affordable public colleges, often in-state to save money that aren't necessarily notable because success is more about the player than the school they attended. Also, if you want value for your money as far as music schools go, North Texas puts out amazing players and out-of-state cost of attendance is less than half of what Berklee costs per year and you get in-state tuition if you work on-campus.
As a Berklee alum, Berklee can inspire you and your interest in music and inspire you to practice which can in turn help you become a better musician. It is very difficult trying to be alone practicing and trying to find people to perform with. Plus when you are at Berklee you may be turned on to another major other than performing. They have 12 majors and only one is called performance. Berklee is great if you truly feel you want do music for your life.
Wow!! What great insight!
Tough one, man.
(Oh, and I like both, they actually sound like a great chord progression, craving for a IV7+ and who knows what next, some diminished chord...)
This is late,but the second one all day! It is much warmer to me :)
Nice vlog!
Totally agree with you Bob!
Great vlog. Chord 2.
I like the first chord.
By itself, the first chord. If other chords around it sound like that one then I think it would be nice to hear all the color in the second chord instead to throw me off. Also, would you happen to have enough kitchen staff in your inside outside retreat? I've got the experience to work if you need some!
For the chords, depends what chords come before and after them ... there is always a place for either of those chords, it might be hip sometimes, or lame other times .... that being said, I liked the second chord haha
1st chord Bob! Who was the guitar player in that Lighthouse clip? Dude burns.
Tough question at the end....for me the first chord I think.
There is more to going to uni or college than the course itself. I made incredible friendships, played in great bands, learnt a lot, almost had a nervous breakdown...and learnt a lot about my life and my own psychology. I even met my wife there....in fact, I met my wife and my best man for the first time at the first jam session I ever attended. This was the most magical time of my life, but I do wish I had been better prepared for it. No matter, I did my best and I'm delighted that I was lucky enough to go to a jazz college. Today I'm an alto player, so what. But I love it, and I will until I die.
The Jerusalem acadamy cost 2500 $ A year (my private saxophone teacher was the phenominal Eli Degibri...), There are places in europe where its free tuition! so there are plenty of other good options, you should check them out!
Another thing, as a teacher in tel aviv I find that saxophone and jazz are on high demand. if you can inspire your studnts and the people around you, chances are that you will find work and people who are intersted in your music. its all just a matter of atitude and respect for your surroundings.
I like the second chord but would like to hear the context, what's the melody?
A couple of things about this amazing saxophonist: One, the kind of "electrical" energy and motivating way he speak throw all his videos is really motivating. Each time I watch a video from him, I take my saxophone and say "OMG, I must to study this, and that, and that", so, very motivating. Second, he show that he read real books, it mean, his references are not only the classical youtuber source like Wikipedia (I say that with a lot of respect for Wikipedia) and finally, he have a huge knowledge, he is a really good musician and saxophone player. Eso es!
🙏🏻
Loved this video!
First chord all day
Both work fine, but first chord in an A/B environment
1st chord
Hey Bob,
I seem to struggle to find solid drummers in my area. I have a few friends who can play but are not very dedicated and still struggle with basics like time and feel. Like most people, I enjoy playing with other musicians, but most of the time after playing with these drummers, I leave jam sessions feeling drained and uninspired. Do you think it is worth it to continue to play with the musicians in your area even if they do NOT elevate your playing? Or is it still good practice to play with musicians regardless of their skill level?
I asked Janek the same question to see what both your opinions are on this
I know the feeling of not finding a good drummer. Unfortunately I had to use drum machines, samples, and play snippets on the kit myself and then edit the snippets to be used in conjunction with machines. I hated doing that. To find a drummer on half the level of Jeff Porcaro would have been a blessing. But never was to be.
Great topic! Chord 1
Tough question. My son (Surf Mesa) went back and forth on this and although I pushed for school he jumped in with all fours. One platinum record later.
Wow, are they really at 60000 a year? When I went in 1999 it was 1/5 of that. I think Bob is making some good points to consider. Also people should keep in mind, that Berklee is not the only school around. I am sure there are other possibilities that are great. Here in Germany, there are smaller schools which also have great faculty and they are free. Another thing to consider is that at least half of what you learn, you learn from your classmates (thats how i felt), so if you already live in an environment with plenty of great musicians (like NY) you can connect with them to learn and be inspired....
two vlogs in one week?!?! holy cow!
First chord. Only because of the Ab in the higher octave. It just feels nice.
You are the sunshine of my life:)
It just helped me millions
This kind of reminds me of the book Shop Class as Soul Craft. Great advice too. I especially likes the "Generator/Amplifier" reference. Now stop competing with Gwizdala for "coffee with Janek". Lol.
What you said about a back-up plan says a lot. If you go into ANYTHING in this life and FIRST work on a back-up plan that means you are not ALL IN on your chosen endeavor and are already predicting a future failure of that goal. You have to go all for it, put in the work and go get that future you want! A back-up is precursor to killing your dream.
Good talk. First chord
I like both; make a vamp connecting the two!
Heed Bob's advice; he speaks the truth. Here's some food for thought for all prospective and current music students: Every year, roughly 30,000 students graduate from conservatories and universities. Unfortunately, there just aren't as many gigs to go around today as there were in the past. Unless you're going to teach in a school, a music degree is pretty useless. Many grads wind up as embittered Guitar Center and Sam Ash employees. You know the type.
After 12 years of classical piano lessons with a local private teacher, I went to Berklee (1 semester), then several years later, to the Univ. of Miami (1 year), and found U. of Miami to far better than Berklee. I learned a hell of lot in that one year.
Up until fairly recently, all one needed to get into Berklee was a check or a credit card. But I think it has greatly improved since the time I was there. Anyway, I then came to my senses, transferred to Indiana University (which also has one of the top music schools) and got a a more practical degree in telecommunications (radio & TV) and business. I figured I could always still play music, and I do. If you already know how to play, all you need is drive and lots of woodshedding.
(Bob, I like the first chord going into the second. They work together as part of a progression.)