Clear explanation, I really understand the theory and have been using this idea (more or less subconscious) throughout my sessions and learning curve. However, I do think that there is one aspect you haven't touched on, and that is the force you need to create power in the desired direction. There is a reason for waterstarting with the board aimed downwind, it is to get going and build up some speed. This is contradicting the theory in your explanation so an addition needs to be made. It is the force on the other hand which makes the soap bar pop out perpendicular. Speed gives you the ability to push the board against the water in the desired direction of travel, going too slow makes you lose this ability since the water doesn't provide enough resistance anymore. It is all about finding this sweet spot of speeds which gives you the most efficient upwind force, provided by pull from the kite and resistance from the water. Hopefully my train of thought is understandable, otherwise I would elaborate.
Very true and something to be conscious of at the same time is that in kiting going too slow does not mean riding downwind… Going too slow means stalling. So yes you need be be moving fast enough to be actually moving (and not stalling) but after that you want to be going as slow as you possibly can. In fact most of the time, in marginal winds, to be going as upwind as you possibly can you are constantly on the brink of stalling and it is that balancing act that makes it so difficult.
Tantrum Kitesurf Great video. Can you explain how racers go upwind when going really fast? or I suspect are they always having to compromise with speed and angle? When racing I mean actual oldschool raceboard with big fins. Getting into racing style riding on my naish venturi. I do notice the slower i go the way more upwind i will go. Cheers and great video :)
A lot of it comes down to the fact that yes they just go really damn fast in all directions...but at that level apparent wind starts to have a big effect which when combined with the fact that race kites are designed to sit really far forward in the window starts to change the physics a little in ways which starts to blow my mind a little!
Sam. Thanks for your Live TH-cam session today. I’ve watched this video a couple of times and it makes more sense now 👍 (every word in the video counts, great job)
WoW for me its really getting very interesting:Big true Thank you monday 20.3.2023 from germany You really help me understanding it step by step I can't wait enyoi it to figur it out tomorrow on the spot,Actully I did some movement but didnt understand it because I see other TH-cam clips You really help me Vielen Dank I must remember:the Window change.....alles klar
Thanks for explanation ! This is so clearly exposed, and finally so logic !! Big thanks you from a Kite beginner that tries to succeed in riding upwind :D
Glad you enjoyed it mate! Would be awesome to see you! We're looking pretty busy that week so I'd drop us an email here: www.tantrumkitesurf.com/contact-us/ and we can get you all sorted!
Thanks for the vidieo blog it was intuitive I live in Western Australia I am learning to ride up wide which I can only cross Wind at the moment I was tryi g to u der and very much the theory behind riding up wind and the resistance you have to have on the bar and kite and bar great video
Great explanation. One comment. More you are ridding upwind the aparent wind changing the diriction closer to the real wind (vector of real wind is increasing with the part of small induce upwind vector) and the wind window changing too, closer to the real windwindow but the angle between aparent wind and the ridding direction is increasing and the resistance of the water increasing too. Means that you cannot changing the direction without limits. Changing the direction more to the upwind direction induce more water resistance but increasing part of the induce wind consistent to the real wind direction - thats one of the point of light wind riding too :D.
I am ok in flat water but with swell I really struggle. Either go launching off a way and hard to regain after otherwise board turns into a submarine thru the swell. Could u do a video on this.
Great video! Been trying to get my head around how window changes as you move. I might be wrong, but if you're moving to the right won't your wind window rotate clockwise? The way you diagramed it looks like window shifts counter clockwise as you move right.?
Cheers mate! If your riding heel side looking over your right shoulder, the wind window would rotate counter clockwise as the induced wind would be generated opposite to your direction of travel. Hope that makes sense. (not the easiest thing to explain or get your head around!)
Great video, thank you! When you say to go slow upwind, do you mean to edge the board upwind more to loose the speed? Or do you mean trying not to go upwind as hard by edging less?
At the end of your podcast you do mention increasing the resistance by engaging the heels. So it means that we should aggressively edge the board upwind, which will slow us down, but take us upwind more than if we were edging less. Then, as we start loosing the power we pinch downwind, and so on?
Exactly, though I would change the word aggressively to progressively. Being too aggressive out of the gate will cause you to stall, instead apply the edge progressively and try to find that balance.
No ideally you want the kite as low as possible mate, a high kite will pull you upwards and off the edge (and downwind) a low kite allows you to really drive the edge in and resist the pull from the kite shooting you out upwind
oh haha now i finally understand. when i was a beginner i was scared and went really slow in strong winds. I ended up insanely upwind and struggled to go do downwind. now I'm intermediate rider and want as much speed as i can, and always find myself coming back to the same spot, and even a little downwind if I do any tricks. lol, makes sense.. go slower. and thats why I always go upwind easily near the shore, because I am going slower to ensure I have more control near obstacles. I see now, it all makes sense.
Twin tip and directional riding are differen. So it's difficult to say one is easier than the other as they require different techniques.I guess it comes down to which one you prefer/are more comfortable with. Directional boards ride off the fins much more and so tend to ride flatter and with more back foot control while twin tips ride off the edge. The same theory does apply to toeside riding although the mechanics are quite different...probably a good topic for another podcast!
tx pap yes if the kite is stationary, but as you’re probably flying the kite aswell, which is also generating apparent wind, this will mean the kite is affected differently...that’s where it gets really complicated!
I lose you too, with my comment. I was sad by you saying ... all that stuff. Is all that stuff that enabled us to achieve our modern way of living, kites included. I don't like to see someone despising maths. Although your explanation is great, I quit looking at it the moment you said that. I returned later, because I was liking the way you were explaining the «stuff». I know maths can be a pain, but it's useful. Don't you ever wonder why your 15 mph are, accurately, 14.142135623730950488016887242097? Embrace your students in curiosity, not in taking out the importance of... that stuff!
Nuno Girão I'd say its a nice expain w/ training instead of education. Im an adult. I dont need ppl inspire me to slow down when i suck walk of shame. Hope you understand my pupil english
i declare this video the GOAT of riding upwind explanations
Clear explanation, I really understand the theory and have been using this idea (more or less subconscious) throughout my sessions and learning curve. However, I do think that there is one aspect you haven't touched on, and that is the force you need to create power in the desired direction. There is a reason for waterstarting with the board aimed downwind, it is to get going and build up some speed. This is contradicting the theory in your explanation so an addition needs to be made. It is the force on the other hand which makes the soap bar pop out perpendicular. Speed gives you the ability to push the board against the water in the desired direction of travel, going too slow makes you lose this ability since the water doesn't provide enough resistance anymore. It is all about finding this sweet spot of speeds which gives you the most efficient upwind force, provided by pull from the kite and resistance from the water. Hopefully my train of thought is understandable, otherwise I would elaborate.
Very true and something to be conscious of at the same time is that in kiting going too slow does not mean riding downwind…
Going too slow means stalling.
So yes you need be be moving fast enough to be actually moving (and not stalling) but after that you want to be going as slow as you possibly can.
In fact most of the time, in marginal winds, to be going as upwind as you possibly can you are constantly on the brink of stalling and it is that balancing act that makes it so difficult.
Wow! Never thought about (or learned from my instructors) that the wind window is shifting. Perfect video 👌
Great explanation Sam, the light bulb is finally turned on. Thank you brother !!
Nice one mate! Glad to help.
Tantrum Kitesurf Great video. Can you explain how racers go upwind when going really fast? or I suspect are they always having to compromise with speed and angle? When racing I mean actual oldschool raceboard with big fins. Getting into racing style riding on my naish venturi. I do notice the slower i go the way more upwind i will go. Cheers and great video :)
A lot of it comes down to the fact that yes they just go really damn fast in all directions...but at that level apparent wind starts to have a big effect which when combined with the fact that race kites are designed to sit really far forward in the window starts to change the physics a little in ways which starts to blow my mind a little!
Thank you. helps Very much
You are doing a great job explaining advanced concepts by slowly building up towards the point you are trying to make! Really useful video! Thanks!
Great to hear sir
Sam. Thanks for your Live TH-cam session today. I’ve watched this video a couple of times and it makes more sense now 👍 (every word in the video counts, great job)
Great to hear sir!
Awesome video! The best explanation on whole youtube! Thanks a lot! I hope you would continue to do such a good videos.
Cheers mate, really glad you're finding it useful!
This was by far the best explanation for riding upwind and now I understand the mechanics for riding more efficiently!! Thanks!!
thats why I love this sport, its actually sailing, and you have to think about a lot of things! great for the body and mind!
For sure!
i realize I'm kinda randomly asking but does anyone know a good website to stream newly released movies online?
@Remy Harvey lately I have been using FlixZone. Just search on google for it :)
@Remy Harvey i would suggest flixzone. Just search on google for it =)
WoW for me its really getting very interesting:Big true
Thank you monday 20.3.2023 from germany
You really help me understanding it step by step
I can't wait enyoi it to figur it out tomorrow on the spot,Actully I did some movement but didnt understand it because I see other TH-cam clips
You really help me
Vielen Dank
I must remember:the Window change.....alles klar
Excellent video...his explanation are always enlighting....thanks
Thanks for explanation ! This is so clearly exposed, and finally so logic !! Big thanks you from a Kite beginner that tries to succeed in riding upwind :D
You're very welcome!
Brilliant explanation, super thanks for this insight
Awesome video and pod cast! I am in town the week of the 28th hope to see you for some lessons!
Glad you enjoyed it mate! Would be awesome to see you! We're looking pretty busy that week so I'd drop us an email here: www.tantrumkitesurf.com/contact-us/ and we can get you all sorted!
Really great video, I haven't heard it explained that clearly I leaned a lo
Thanks for the vidieo blog it was intuitive I live in Western Australia I am learning to ride up wide which I can only cross Wind at the moment I was tryi g to u der and very much the theory behind riding up wind and the resistance you have to have on the bar and kite and bar great video
Awesome!
Can't wait to try this out. I will definitely visit you in Tariffa next year!
Can't wait to meet you!
That was very very useful. Superb explanation. Thank you very much!
Awesome to hear mate!
Brilliant, first time I've thought and understood about this despite watching loads of videos
Great to hear sir!
Brilliant explanation. I always thought faster was better. Thanks Sam.
Great to hear sir!
Going slow and zig-zagging with wind strength was very helpful- Thankyou!
Glad to hear it mate!
I finally got it... Great explanation Sam 👍 !!!
Awesome! Glad to hear it!
Incredible! I got all of it. YOu are a great teacher! THank you!!
Awesome!
Great explanation. One comment. More you are ridding upwind the aparent wind changing the diriction closer to the real wind (vector of real wind is increasing with the part of small induce upwind vector) and the wind window changing too, closer to the real windwindow but the angle between aparent wind and the ridding direction is increasing and the resistance of the water increasing too. Means that you cannot changing the direction without limits. Changing the direction more to the upwind direction induce more water resistance but increasing part of the induce wind consistent to the real wind direction - thats one of the point of light wind riding too :D.
amazing explanation. thank you. subscribed
Awesome to hear mate, glad you found it useful
First explanation that works
Glad to hear that!
actually hadn't thought of it that way. Pretty cool stuff
Glad to help!
You are a natural instructor!..
Why thank you sir!
After 15 years of airline flying.. I can tell a good instructor....
Phenomenal explanation
Thank you sir!
Brilliant explanation!
Cheers mate!
Awesome video,learnt heaps ,thanks
Nice one! Glad to help!
so smart !!!! thanks for the explaination
Thank you!
I wish I watched this video earlier. Going out in the water tomorrow and will try to put it in practice!
Hope it helps!
Very clear. Thanks. But, how can I apply this to getting airborn and riding the wind without touching the ground?
Thank you i m beginner and this video answered some questions
Great explanation, thanks! :)
Thank you sir!
Wow. Makes sense. Just blew my mind
Awesome!
superbly interesting
very cool!
Great vid!
Thank you
Perfect!
Thank you!
eccellente spiegazione
does anyone still have the podcast? i would love to listen to it but the website is gone
I am ok in flat water but with swell I really struggle. Either go launching off a way and hard to regain after otherwise board turns into a submarine thru the swell. Could u do a video on this.
Done sir, check out some of the other videos in the riding upwind playlist
Can you post another link to the podcast...it's showing up as "oops cannot find that track".
That s... Illuminating
God has bless you🙏Thank you very much
You too mate
Love this video! Question: Kite height? should the kite be low to the ground or closer to 12 o'clock. or do I want 45° between 12 and 9?
As low as you can comfortably get it
Great video! Been trying to get my head around how window changes as you move. I might be wrong, but if you're moving to the right won't your wind window rotate clockwise? The way you diagramed it looks like window shifts counter clockwise as you move right.?
I think I'm wrong... interesting stuff!!
Cheers mate! If your riding heel side looking over your right shoulder, the wind window would rotate counter clockwise as the induced wind would be generated opposite to your direction of travel. Hope that makes sense. (not the easiest thing to explain or get your head around!)
Great video, thank you! When you say to go slow upwind, do you mean to edge the board upwind more to loose the speed? Or do you mean trying not to go upwind as hard by edging less?
At the end of your podcast you do mention increasing the resistance by engaging the heels. So it means that we should aggressively edge the board upwind, which will slow us down, but take us upwind more than if we were edging less. Then, as we start loosing the power we pinch downwind, and so on?
Exactly, though I would change the word aggressively to progressively. Being too aggressive out of the gate will cause you to stall, instead apply the edge progressively and try to find that balance.
Thank you
You are Best
Why thank you!
I can't find the podcast anywhere ?!
Where’s the podcast link?
what do you think about high or low kite for going upwind? if its up at 1 oclock and riding slow, is the same as at 3 oclock and riding slow?
No ideally you want the kite as low as possible mate, a high kite will pull you upwards and off the edge (and downwind) a low kite allows you to really drive the edge in and resist the pull from the kite shooting you out upwind
oh haha now i finally understand. when i was a beginner i was scared and went really slow in strong winds. I ended up insanely upwind and struggled to go do downwind. now I'm intermediate rider and want as much speed as i can, and always find myself coming back to the same spot, and even a little downwind if I do any tricks. lol, makes sense.. go slower. and thats why I always go upwind easily near the shore, because I am going slower to ensure I have more control near obstacles. I see now, it all makes sense.
Awesome! Glad it all makes sense mate!
Is it easier to ride upwind on a directional or a twin tip ,also does the same theory apply to riding toeside,Thanks agin ,Fly High
Twin tip and directional riding are differen. So it's difficult to say one is easier than the other as they require different techniques.I guess it comes down to which one you prefer/are more comfortable with. Directional boards ride off the fins much more and so tend to ride flatter and with more back foot control while twin tips ride off the edge. The same theory does apply to toeside riding although the mechanics are quite different...probably a good topic for another podcast!
YEAH COOL ,I understand ,I am a surfer and i have both boards ,I'm getting into kitesurfing,and I cant get enough of it ,Fly high
Totally with you mate, personally I love riding surf style, twin tip struggles to get a look in at the moment!
is the apparent wind the same for the kite and the rider?
tx pap yes if the kite is stationary, but as you’re probably flying the kite aswell, which is also generating apparent wind, this will mean the kite is affected differently...that’s where it gets really complicated!
@@TantrumX Isn't the true wind for the kite more than the rider as it is higher?
@@fluffyrich1 yes
Doctor Kite has spoken 😊 long story short: keave kite 45°. Get upwind by steering the board?!
You lose me at 3:20. Triangles and pitagoras and that stuff! Is that so difficult to understand? Come on!!!
Don't worry, as I say it's not too important that you understand the physics of this, just that you need to be riding slow!
I lose you too, with my comment. I was sad by you saying ... all that stuff. Is all that stuff that enabled us to achieve our modern way of living, kites included. I don't like to see someone despising maths. Although your explanation is great, I quit looking at it the moment you said that. I returned later, because I was liking the way you were explaining the «stuff». I know maths can be a pain, but it's useful. Don't you ever wonder why your 15 mph are, accurately, 14.142135623730950488016887242097? Embrace your students in curiosity, not in taking out the importance of... that stuff!
Nuno Girão I'd say its a nice expain w/ training instead of education. Im an adult. I dont need ppl inspire me to slow down when i suck walk of shame. Hope you understand my pupil english