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Standard is fun..but it should NEVER have been a 3 year rotation. I don't care why some people wanted it. The rest of us are sick and tired of people using decks that are 95% New Capenna or Midnight Hunt / Crimson Vow because of how much stronger several of those cards are than their newer iterations.
The other big point of making them all mythic is to drain people of the most expensive type of wildcard on Arena. It's a scam from top to bottom at this point.
The chances are MUCH lower on arena. Instead of replacing a card 1/5th of the time, they replace a MYTHIC 1/5th of the time. If you want big score cards, you may want to consider buying those mythic packs for a little more gold. (Note that this is not true for arena’s limited packs, they have the same rates as in paper at 1/5 for a big score card)
Prof really baited me on that ad break. I thought he would have some miracle card organizer that collects and organizes the loose cards around my house.
I think bonus sheets are only cool when it's a reprint exclusive sheet like the masterpieces, MOM's reprint legends and the breaking news sheet, they are what the list was supposed to be.
Right. WoE’s enchanting tales bonus sheet was a huge hit, I LOVED the masterpieces even if I only got one in a pack. It’s when it’s fun like that it’s really enjoyable.
Absolutely! It boosts the power of limited. We get reprints of great cards. And none of it goes into standard, so you don't have to worry about screwing anything up there. No real downsides that I can think of
My only way I could justify it was that if all 5 cards were good versus 1-2 and a bunch of draft chaff in current packs, I was open to the idea. So much for that 😂
Because we, the community loudly confirmed to WotC that we will pay 5x + the money for the same number of cards if they're shiny with collector boosters.
Honestly one of the biggest issues with the aftermath set was how it was full of chaff. If the set was filled with actual bangers, similar to how thunder junction big score actually does have a very large number of wanted cards, it might have gone over better. But it was a low powered set, with a questionable gimmic. It was doomed to fail.
It’s not a mistake as long as they show their investors green at the end of each financial quarter. The next one doesn’t matter- just the one we’re currently in. That’s all they care about. That’s their only goal.
I just wanted to show appreciation for the Tolarian Winds video style. I like to hear what your opinion is Prof and I hop you continue to do these style videos.
I wouldn't call "Special guest" a bonus sheet since in the booster they don't fill the slot usually dedicated to them but they fill the slot where you can find cards from the list, because that's what they are, cards from the list that have been given a new art and a new symbol because they're particularly in theme with the set they are in. The List has always had cards added and removed with each expansion, these cards have simply now been branded as "Special Guest".
The Big Score big is a mistake, like Aftermath was, it shouldn't be there and only causes confusion in the set. I hope that considering the community's hatred for minisets, "Big Score" is a last-minute fix from Wotc to print cards already designed and that this format never appears again in a set.
Exactly!!! Notice that he didn’t mention special guests for LCI or MKM when listing other bonus sheets. Because they aren’t a bonus sheet! I wouldn’t even call BIG a bonus sheet either. It adds confusion, sure, but it’s not a bonus sheet.
I feel like the only thing that was really wrong with Aftermath's Epilogue boosters was the price. Yugioh does 5-card boosters but the MSRP on them is like $1.50. If a box of Aftermath was $40-50 from the beginning and the packs averaged $1.50-$2 I don't think they would've been anywhere near as big a problem.
I agree also. The disgusting part of Aftermath is paying the same price for only five cards. If you lower the price, I don't think you get the same outrage. Would they be cheered? Maybe not, but at least the cards would be as accessible as was originally intended.
Bonus sheets convinced me to play OTJ draft and were my favourite part of OTJ and WOE drafts. I absolutely adore bonus sheets being in every pack; only issue was OTJ having 3 bonus sheets competing for 1 slot.
Actually its two bonus sheets for 1 slot, the breaking news bonus sheet is its own slot guaranteed in every pack. Big Score and Special Guests can appear in the list slot.
@@alexmanzanares200 Special Guest cards are reportedly 1 in 64 packs and would appear to be more rare than getting a non-specific Big Score card. I do wonder if the sorting was a little skewed, I've opened 1 box of play boosters and pulled 7 cards from the Big Score sheet, no other List cards or Special Guests appeared in that box.
@@santyricon or… for limited? You don’t want people having just as many bristly bills as they have intrepid stablemasters. Also using that 1 in 7.4 play boosters have a mythic in them you have about the same chance of pulling a specific mythic as a specific big score card, .7% to .5% respectively.
after Ixalan that’s the first set I’m actually interested in because it’s not a gimmicky mishmash of known characters and based on sales numbers I imagine I’m not alone in that feeling
@@yawg691No I don't think so. Pretty sure there's going to be basically a "bonus sheet" of sorts for animal versions of planes walker special guests. They also showed off a fox Jace
@@philip5273 Ral is going to be involved with the story on the plane, but there are also going to be planeswalker fursona cards in the bonus sheet like the Jace one shown already
Wizards probably handled the epilogue flop the best they could with this short-term solution, but I really don't think this multiple bonus-sheets thing should be done in any future set. I don't think the high price for Big score cards, that would've cost a few cents if they were in the main set, is healthy. Maybe it's an idea to put epilogue style cards from all the main sets released in a year into one bigger set at the end of the year?
I agree. It's not as bad as it could have been. I don't mind this choice as a one off solution. I fear for if any of these cards become usable in pioneer/modern. All of a sudden they become very good, incredibly scarce, and even more expensive.
Honestly great video prof. I've set my eyes on that Synthethiser card since it was revealed but as soon as I saw the price I shook the idea of building it in standard out of my head, but never realized this was the reason it's so expensive.
I see 978K subscribers , I'm sure you'll be at 1M soon Prof. & well deserved. You're content ROCKS! and you always uplift the MTG Community. Many thanks & Much Luv 4 ya !
This video feels like it could have benefited from waiting a week before it was made, especially because only 9 of the cards from The Big Score cost more than a play booster now. Also as a personal anecdote, I absolutely loved all the bonus sheets when buying a play booster box because it made opening packs that much more fun, it was kind of nuts getting 15 mythics in my box thanks to all the bonus sheets!
I agree, especially when he claims that these prices are the floor. Which implies through his argument that it aint going any lower. Which is outright wrong considering territory forge is already almost half of that price he put up on this video.
I like that Murders at Karlov Manor is basically being given the unofficial nickname of Markov Manor. Now that we have the omenpaths, that type of confusion can happen in canon!
Tolarian Winds is definitely one of my favorite series of videos you do, Prof! It's always a pleasure to hear your thoughts about this awesome game we all love and play! ❤
Great video, with excellent points! I was expecting that you would also be including information from the wildcard hellscape called Arena. It's even more rare to open a BIG card on Arena, about a 1/35 chance, forcing players to have to burn wildcards to get them.
Honestly. As a commander player. These bonus sheets really incentivised my purchase of the product. Infact it convinced me to buy my first booster box in years, and I had such a blast discovering loads of cool, powerful cards, so many rare and mythics.
Yeah, it's a little bit paradoxical when the complaints about MKM were that it was a failure and not worth it, but also to complain that people will want to buy packs of OTJ because of the cards inside.
I like the bonus sheets but i think there should have been one from each sheet per pack and double that in the collectors pack. We can take out a few commons from each pack.
Imagine buying singles to get the cards you actually want instead of draining your whole bank acout to gamble on fantasy cards just to get a bunch of junk and a legendary creature you didn't even know existed
I think it sucks for players trying to pick up big score cards but on the other hand it will drive the cards in the regular set wayyyyy down over time.
All these bonus sheet cards and alternate art and alternate treatments and alternate foil treatments make it impossible to organize these damn cards. I’ve been collecting Magic cards since 1998 and all of my cards from before 2020 or 2021 are very neatly and plainly organized in card boxes.
Mu only issue is the bad treatments like extended arts they're so incredibly pointless when it just barely extends the art genuine alt arts are pretty cool
I was at a sealed RCQ today, and the set checklist used for deck registration was two pages, even with tiny font. It's too much. It's worth noting that for The List in OTJ, the Big Score cards are weighted much higher than the Special Guests cards - the Special Guests only appear in 1 out of 64 boosters. So the odds of getting a new card from the Big Score is actually a little higher than stated in this video - it's closer to 16%. (The Prof's point still stands, though.)
1:64 was for MKM's SPGs, pretty sure it's 1:20 for OTJ's SPGs. (The WotC news article about collecting OTJ seems to have used the value for SPG without checking if it was still valid ??)
All of my favorite sets for limited, either draft or sealed, have had bonus sheets. It’s a really fun environment. But I wasn’t thinking about the effect on standard. I didn’t realize the are standard legal
We know that they were capable of adding cards from the Big Score to the main Outlaws of Thunder Junction set because that's what they did with the new Jace. He was originally designed to be included in the Big Score due to his presence and influence on the story of Thunder Junction. Since Epilogue Boosters got axed, they decided to include him directly in Outlaws itself as an exception to their new "we're only doing one Standard legal Planeswalker per set going forward" guideline. They could have included him as part of the Big Score bonus sheet, but they specifically chose to make him part of the main set to ensure that he'd be more widely available.
The one thing ill point out which messed with the math is that special guest cards are rarer then big score cards, i believe it worked out for every 11 or 12 big score cards you get one special guest in a play booster
a single booster of Thunder Junction can contain cards from FIVE different sets in. OTJ, OTC, SPG, BIG, OTP. This is absolutely INSANE. every product is so bloated and excessive
Dein Hemd steht dir sehr gut. Hier ist grad 00:30 Uhr durch. ich komm von einer Bäcker Innungsversammlung in Brandenburg. Leider habe ich glaube ich nicht alles verstanden. Aber du siehst aus wie ein leckerer Snack.❤ ich mein das wirklich positiv.
If they're going to double down on bonus sheets, they should replace the art cards' slot. I'd be much happier when I didn't get the tokens I need because I got a cool reprint or whatever because at least that's something I can play.
I know this is a semi unrelated comment; But I just wanted to get out my thoughts on a new(ish) Theros Block in a world return; First off I need to preface that I loved the original Theros block! It is my absolute favorite plane next to Innistrad as my second. I have always been a big fan of the Heroic and constellation abilities, and I was thinking about a new(ish) kind of combination of the two. A set of Auras that give the enchanted creature constellation that triggers abilities whenever enchantments ETB. I am also looking forward to receiving the other 10 “Ordeal of” Aura cards based on the other 10 Gods. It would be nice to see a return of the HEROIC mechanic in true. We didn’t get any in Beyond death. Inspired was a unique ability and there are all kinds of cool things you can do with those; including putting them on BESTOW creatures. Which by the way - having dual colored bestow creatures with deity themed abilities is very much needed. And having artifacts that grant various HEROIC abilities. Would make artifacts viable in a set that is greatly dominated by enchantments. Not to mention that the whole TRIBUTE mechanic was really fun!!! And if there was like a legendary artifact that allows your creatures to have both upon ETB! That could get crazy for Commander games. Also, MONSTROUS as an ability needs a complete work over. The monsters need to become ACTUAL monsters. Like real threats not just like a 4 mana 3/3 with monstrous 3 for 5 mana should do more than just become a 6/6 . . . It should also grant key word abilities like Trample, Flying, Lifelink, Deathouch, Can’t be blocked, etc. or maybe deviate the board in some way, as well as enchantments or auras that either make your MONSTROUS abilities cost 2 less to activate, or that instantly turn your monsters into Monstrosities! (I feel like escape already works well, so that doesn’t need any work) Though, I don’t know how they are gonna rework the new Gods after the Phyrexian Invasion (side note; total missed opportunities by WIZARDS there - they could have introduced a year of phyrexians invading 3 planes per set for the next year - to really draw out the multiverse wide invasion of 12 of our favorite planes and how the inhabitants fend off the Phyrexians. sigh, but I digress) Anyway, this would open up opportunities for the introduction of new Gods for the Theros Plane or maybe the restoration of some already beloved Gods. This new block could be a 3 part set focused on 1. the restoration of the plane from the plane-wide invasion. 2. restoring the obvious power vacuums in the Pantheon. Not to mention maybe remnants of the Phyrexians’ influence on some of the plane’s inhabitants (especially the Minotaurs). 3. The New Theros/NYX, maybe in order to save the plane the two realms merge into some new name like THERYX????!! And lastly; the Hydras - need to feel more like hydras, where you get to spawn head tokens with X/X where X is the number of Hydra creatures you control. These hydra head tokens could generate when a non token hydra dies and you make X tokens equal to the destroyed hydra’s power. Or maybe a legendary hydra that spawns heads whenever it takes damage - like combining “protean hydra” with “Vigor” but it would remove counters to spawn heads and you could sacrifice heads to restore +1/+1 counters. (Kind of like Chasm Skulker in a way) Either way, I look forward to revisiting Theros - and I am really hoping to see some of these abilities revamped.
Haha imagine a revamped Hydra Brood-Mother; she could be like a XXGG for cost, Enters with X +1/+1 counters AND enters with X X/X hydra tokens. Then when she dies she spawn X X/X head tokens (X = her power) Or maybe she’s a monstrous creature - like her original design with monstrous XXG where she gets X +1/+1 counters AND THEN spawns X X/X hydra tokens! . . . Actually that sounds more fair! 😅 I love this! I just wish it was an actual thing.
I actually like how they did the Big Score cards in this set by replacing the crappy list cards which were more often than not a crappy common from an old set whereas here ur getting mythics that have value AND playability 😁
@@laurentrobitaille2204 it's more like an uncommon. Mind: I have a 60-card deck based on artifacts and proliferate, A.C. runs at 4 copies, so I know his power; yet, it's an uncommon at best.
They got it right with Kaledesh, wish we could go back to that and 3 block standard with core sets. I just got back into magic after a 4 year break really wanted to get back into paper but at these prices i'll just play arena.
I pulled the sword and the ring during the 2 prerelease events I participated in. So 2 of my 12 packs had a big score card for a 16% chance of pulling one. Close enough to 13%
Is good that they did reprints for the card economy, it's cool that instead of straight reprints they have special flavour art attached to the "current" expansion. But they implemented the solution/good idea while reintroducing the problem it was trying to tackle to other new cards.
Thunderjunction play boosters are the most fun magic packs i have opened in a long time. It makes the packs worth opening and buying. The added value to the packs is important now that we are at the cost of playboosters. The sales of thunderjunction which has it versus sales of manor speaks for itself.
I don’t mind the extra cards in the set. I like it in draft but yes it is unfortunately causing problems with big score availability and makes it harder for new players to pick up.
I opened a box of OTJ and I got 6 set mythics and 6 big score cards + a special guest. The OTJ boosters have 5 potential rare slots compared to 4 in MKM packs. I know it's just one box, but idk, getting the big score cards might not be as difficult as it sounds. Personally, I enjoyed opening the box and also the prerelease was really fun. I don't think wotc should necessarily do multiple bonus sheets again, but it's been fun for me this time. Basically, I think it's probably fine.
Entirely agree as someone who primarily plays limited. I don't think the multiple sheets are necessarily impacting the format's power level any more than, say, March of the Machine's bonus sheet, but the lack of predictability in draft is certainly something that many I've spoken to have mentioned. With all the previous sheets, there's been some kind of theme, creatures, spells, artifacts, etc. It allowed you to draft potential answers accordingly. With OTJ, though it's been great fun to play so far, the random bomb mythics have felt like exactly that: too random. There's just so much stuff that can appear. I very much hope they tone it back in the future.
Man, Star Wars: Unlimited really came out at exactly the right time. Gave me an excellent exit point from this downward spiral that doesn't seem to have brakes.
Personally I love the OTJ packs they feel really good to open and have. I fail to see the real downside as opposed to the positives right now. I suppose in time we will see but opening play boosters and having a lot to look forward to makes them feel more cost effective. Just my opinion of course.
I got molten dupplication on the pre release... Didnt even realize it was a bonus sheet card until watching this video just now... It felt like any other card of the set. Good and great, but I didn't even realize it was part of the BIG sheet
I'm so glad I bought a collector box in hindsight. Pulled the sword and old Oko. I feel like I can wash my hands of the set and go back to getting eldraine packs lol
Big Score is definitely the sticking point here and less indicative of an overall bonus sheet problem than it is a "shoving stuff into a set haphazardly because we fucked up as usual" problem. Special Guests are always going to be List cards and eventually that will become pretty standard knowledge, and the actual bonus sheet is still nice to have. Mana Drain reprint good and all that.
Implement would-be epilogue sets into future sets instead of separate sheets, that works well. Also, Art Series Booster instead of Art Series in other Boosters
The Big Score is also flavourless. Like why do so many cards look like leftover art. There’s at least Ixalan, Phyrexia, and Thunder Junction all crammed in there.
@@CatManThreeI know that. But Ixalan and Phyrexia feel out of place. I guess they designed the Big Score based on the events in the epilogue story rather than chronologically.
It's like somebody woke up one morning, remembered the old block system with smaller supplemental sets that came out after a while to shake up the sealed/draft environment, and decided "we should do that again, but horrible".
I like the idea of using bonus sheets to put in nice reprints (like Mystic Archive) into both rotation and the card pool in cases where that reprint wouldn't make sense or fit in the standard set (Brazen Borrower, Vaultborn Tyrant, etc) but I do have some serious concerns when it comes to adding new cards or limited the amount that these cards are added. The bonus sheet should be used to fill out the packs with one or two extra cards instead of driving up market value
I like bonus sheets as the name implies, a little bonus. There are so many cards in OTJ’s bonus sheets, it’s just confusing. And the singles I want from them are so expensive that I gotta pick and choose the ones I really want to get first.
I agree I don’t think that they needed to do the big score. It just makes limited more bomb dominated. One of the other things that I don’t like about the play boosters is that with the art cards there are so few tokens, when at a prerelease or a draft you don’t have enough or the right tokens to play with.
I cracked 6 packs of this set. It was exhausting. Like I remember opening stuff and being like “oh man, this looks sick” or “I’m throwing this in XYZ deck for SURE”. Now, I don’t even remember what it is that could be in it, I spent five minutes getting a handle on what we were looking at, then another twenty minutes I had to look up if I could even play what I was opening in my format and then just tucked them in a box.
My thing with bonus sheets is that while they do make a limited format a little more interesting and fun in some respects they also have a tendency to warp the format around them. They’re also pretty difficult to play around because they’re unpredictable.
Completely agree. Hasbro will see the numbers even when Outlaws is not even close to compare with MKM disaster. They might use special slots to justify the higher price.
Honestly, as a person who primarily plays draft and sealed formats, and commander with my friends every once in a while, I'm all for this. I was passed completely fire stuff at my draft last night. I know that I will be hit with a fire pack and have to regret passing up on some cards, but if I'm even out drafting, the main point is for me to have fun. Granted, I know this isn't smart of WotC to do a huge whole sheet of cards thrown into the set, but a more balanced one going in the future should rectify the problems.
Bought and cracked a box of TJ yesterday, only 1 special guest card, no list cards, and none of the chase mythics. Value of boxes is notably lower. You also get way way fewer full art lands. They gotta fix this or im not buying sealed product anymore. Retail price should be no higher than $125-$130.
Realistically, how many additional sets at this point already had the epilogue sets designed? 3-4? Are they going to pair down the card pool, are they going to continue with expansive bonus sheets with majority of cards on that sheet creating the excitement of soggy bread, or are they going to attempt to expand the epilogue into a two-set planes that's actually worth having as a second release? I wouldn't be mad if the first set was the primary story affecting it, and the second was the "aftermath" of that plane as long as it's worth being a, and let me say this very clearly, a full sized set. Heck, why not have the second as an Aftermath/Prologue set? Teaser Hype has been a driving force of MTG as of late.
Ehhh doubt its even 3 more, let alone 4. We know at the very least late 2023, well after Aftermath was launched, they revealed they only just started to work on the first sets for 2025. I think at that point they already had the impression that Aftermath was a flop, but they already had essentially the entire 2024 line-up finished well before that. So I doubt any sets in 2025 were planned to have aftermath, and from the remainder of 2024 theres only Bloomborrow and Duskmorn. Assassins Creed was planned to be like a Aftermath set. Considering not every standard set was planned with a Aftermath set in mind, Murders and Lost Caverns for example, I kinda doubt Duskmorn would have one. Maybe Bloomborow?
I'm amazed they didn't just send out Pikertons to someone's house to take their cards, to generate interest. It would at least be the flavor of the set, right?
Honestly, I've been enjoying drafting the format. Yes, you can lose to Oko but other than that its been fun to have all those cards pop here and there in packs
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Magic: The Gathering has a Magic: The Gathering problem.
Would you consider autographing my Green Academic deck box?
Standard is fun..but it should NEVER have been a 3 year rotation. I don't care why some people wanted it. The rest of us are sick and tired of people using decks that are 95% New Capenna or Midnight Hunt / Crimson Vow because of how much stronger several of those cards are than their newer iterations.
The other big point of making them all mythic is to drain people of the most expensive type of wildcard on Arena. It's a scam from top to bottom at this point.
I'm just imagining going back in time and giving that as the reason they introduced Mythic rarity to start with and how confused folks would be.
After opening 90+ OTJ packs on Arena I have 5 Big Score cards. Five.
The chances are MUCH lower on arena. Instead of replacing a card 1/5th of the time, they replace a MYTHIC 1/5th of the time. If you want big score cards, you may want to consider buying those mythic packs for a little more gold.
(Note that this is not true for arena’s limited packs, they have the same rates as in paper at 1/5 for a big score card)
Exactly my first thought with all the mythic and rares now. Play boosters instead of set boosters also with more rares instead of commons
Am I the only one who has a glut of Mythic wildcards and not enough rare ones? I’d welcome a printing of the shocklands or other staples at mythic
Prof really baited me on that ad break. I thought he would have some miracle card organizer that collects and organizes the loose cards around my house.
Hahaha I felt the same way!
I think bonus sheets are only cool when it's a reprint exclusive sheet like the masterpieces, MOM's reprint legends and the breaking news sheet, they are what the list was supposed to be.
Right. WoE’s enchanting tales bonus sheet was a huge hit, I LOVED the masterpieces even if I only got one in a pack. It’s when it’s fun like that it’s really enjoyable.
Absolutely! It boosts the power of limited. We get reprints of great cards. And none of it goes into standard, so you don't have to worry about screwing anything up there. No real downsides that I can think of
I liked the ones in Brothers War a lot.
One of my favorite things about this channel has always been your staunch advocacy for the players. Thank you for all the good work you do.
I'm still baffled they thought "How about we sell them fewer cards, for the same money" would go over well in the community.
I wonder how many tolarian videos this comment could apply to
My only way I could justify it was that if all 5 cards were good versus 1-2 and a bunch of draft chaff in current packs, I was open to the idea. So much for that 😂
Because we, the community loudly confirmed to WotC that we will pay 5x + the money for the same number of cards if they're shiny with collector boosters.
Sure, it sounds bad, but don’t forget that there were also shitloads of duplicates, even within the same pack!
Wait…
Honestly one of the biggest issues with the aftermath set was how it was full of chaff. If the set was filled with actual bangers, similar to how thunder junction big score actually does have a very large number of wanted cards, it might have gone over better. But it was a low powered set, with a questionable gimmic. It was doomed to fail.
Ah yes, WotC’s “Oops, All Mistakes” brand of decision making
It’s not a mistake as long as they show their investors green at the end of each financial quarter. The next one doesn’t matter- just the one we’re currently in. That’s all they care about. That’s their only goal.
I just wanted to show appreciation for the Tolarian Winds video style. I like to hear what your opinion is Prof and I hop you continue to do these style videos.
Tolarian Winds is my favorite segment, followed by Dies to removal.
This is not only a problem for paper but also arena too. its rare to even pull a mythic you want now they're adding 30 more to the pool.
Yeah it's kind of annoying tbh
Hey you, stop recognizing patterns!
Love that he still calls it "Markov Manor".
... I do, too.
Its because the word murders upsets the algo and possibly removes the ability to monetize the video
Yeah cuz the cards in the set sound like they were designed by markov chains
@@Espeonkilledyou Except it's Teysa Karlov's house and has nothing do with the word murder.
@@Espeonkilledyou but it isnt markov manor
its karlov manor
I just wish wizards would slow it down a little on all these lottery cards, alternate art works, and pop culture sets.
100%. But they’re just chasing that quarterly revenue… 😒
as someone who pops their head through the door every now and then, magic is incomprehensible compared to a decade ago, when I last checked in.
when you did the sponsor, i Kinda expected a sorting ad for cards or something. ;(
Yep, I got excited til the food appeared 😂
lol same I was like, “im listening…..”
Same haha
@@SylveonSimpI learned the proper way to spell segue...
I always thought it was spelled like the scooters with huge wheels 😅
I wouldn't call "Special guest" a bonus sheet since in the booster they don't fill the slot usually dedicated to them but they fill the slot where you can find cards from the list, because that's what they are, cards from the list that have been given a new art and a new symbol because they're particularly in theme with the set they are in. The List has always had cards added and removed with each expansion, these cards have simply now been branded as "Special Guest".
The Big Score big is a mistake, like Aftermath was, it shouldn't be there and only causes confusion in the set. I hope that considering the community's hatred for minisets, "Big Score" is a last-minute fix from Wotc to print cards already designed and that this format never appears again in a set.
Exactly!!! Notice that he didn’t mention special guests for LCI or MKM when listing other bonus sheets. Because they aren’t a bonus sheet! I wouldn’t even call BIG a bonus sheet either. It adds confusion, sure, but it’s not a bonus sheet.
The List was always effectively a bonus sheet. Not mentioning it for LCI and MKM is probably just because they weren't problematic there.
I feel like the only thing that was really wrong with Aftermath's Epilogue boosters was the price. Yugioh does 5-card boosters but the MSRP on them is like $1.50. If a box of Aftermath was $40-50 from the beginning and the packs averaged $1.50-$2 I don't think they would've been anywhere near as big a problem.
Honestly this. I wouldn't mind a micro set for even $2/pack. Charging regular price was where they went wrong.
I agree also. The disgusting part of Aftermath is paying the same price for only five cards. If you lower the price, I don't think you get the same outrage. Would they be cheered? Maybe not, but at least the cards would be as accessible as was originally intended.
Bonus sheets convinced me to play OTJ draft and were my favourite part of OTJ and WOE drafts. I absolutely adore bonus sheets being in every pack; only issue was OTJ having 3 bonus sheets competing for 1 slot.
Actually its two bonus sheets for 1 slot, the breaking news bonus sheet is its own slot guaranteed in every pack. Big Score and Special Guests can appear in the list slot.
@@alexmanzanares200 Special Guest cards are reportedly 1 in 64 packs and would appear to be more rare than getting a non-specific Big Score card. I do wonder if the sorting was a little skewed, I've opened 1 box of play boosters and pulled 7 cards from the Big Score sheet, no other List cards or Special Guests appeared in that box.
"in every pack"?
you missed a "5-th": "in every 5th pack"
Mythic rares were a mistake. And this is even worse
Rares were a mistake, only commons, why should different cards have different chances to be pulled in a pack?
@@cowsmoogoto create artificial value, basically
@@santyricon or… for limited? You don’t want people having just as many bristly bills as they have intrepid stablemasters. Also using that 1 in 7.4 play boosters have a mythic in them you have about the same chance of pulling a specific mythic as a specific big score card, .7% to .5% respectively.
@@cowsmoogothis, but unironically. The lcg format is significantly better for the consumer, but y'all aren't ready for that conversation.
mtg was a mistake
I really hope WOTC gets it right with Bloomburrow because I'm really looking forward to that set.
after Ixalan that’s the first set I’m actually interested in because it’s not a gimmicky mishmash of known characters and based on sales numbers I imagine I’m not alone in that feeling
Isn't ral zarek furrified the main character?
@@yawg691No I don't think so. Pretty sure there's going to be basically a "bonus sheet" of sorts for animal versions of planes walker special guests. They also showed off a fox Jace
@@philip5273 Ral is going to be involved with the story on the plane, but there are also going to be planeswalker fursona cards in the bonus sheet like the Jace one shown already
Wizards probably handled the epilogue flop the best they could with this short-term solution, but I really don't think this multiple bonus-sheets thing should be done in any future set. I don't think the high price for Big score cards, that would've cost a few cents if they were in the main set, is healthy. Maybe it's an idea to put epilogue style cards from all the main sets released in a year into one bigger set at the end of the year?
I agree. It's not as bad as it could have been. I don't mind this choice as a one off solution.
I fear for if any of these cards become usable in pioneer/modern. All of a sudden they become very good, incredibly scarce, and even more expensive.
I play aggro and have issues counting to 20, I can't handle all this algebra I need to work out Big Score pull rates
Honestly great video prof. I've set my eyes on that Synthethiser card since it was revealed but as soon as I saw the price I shook the idea of building it in standard out of my head, but never realized this was the reason it's so expensive.
I see 978K subscribers , I'm sure you'll be at 1M soon Prof. & well deserved. You're content ROCKS! and you always uplift the MTG Community. Many thanks & Much Luv 4 ya !
This video feels like it could have benefited from waiting a week before it was made, especially because only 9 of the cards from The Big Score cost more than a play booster now. Also as a personal anecdote, I absolutely loved all the bonus sheets when buying a play booster box because it made opening packs that much more fun, it was kind of nuts getting 15 mythics in my box thanks to all the bonus sheets!
I agree, especially when he claims that these prices are the floor. Which implies through his argument that it aint going any lower. Which is outright wrong considering territory forge is already almost half of that price he put up on this video.
I like that Murders at Karlov Manor is basically being given the unofficial nickname of Markov Manor.
Now that we have the omenpaths, that type of confusion can happen in canon!
A lot of interesting points as usual, Prof.
My one nitpick is that saying Memory Vessel is the same as Memory Jar is bananas😂
Right they intentionally jumped through hoops to nerf it significantly. It’s nostalgic; it’s not the same.
With Dranith it's MemJar+TimeWalk...
But yeah, it's trash.
Tolarian Winds is definitely one of my favorite series of videos you do, Prof! It's always a pleasure to hear your thoughts about this awesome game we all love and play! ❤
So The List Slot is just a new rarity.
Great video, with excellent points! I was expecting that you would also be including information from the wildcard hellscape called Arena. It's even more rare to open a BIG card on Arena, about a 1/35 chance, forcing players to have to burn wildcards to get them.
Honestly. As a commander player. These bonus sheets really incentivised my purchase of the product. Infact it convinced me to buy my first booster box in years, and I had such a blast discovering loads of cool, powerful cards, so many rare and mythics.
Yeah, it's a little bit paradoxical when the complaints about MKM were that it was a failure and not worth it, but also to complain that people will want to buy packs of OTJ because of the cards inside.
I like the bonus sheets but i think there should have been one from each sheet per pack and double that in the collectors pack. We can take out a few commons from each pack.
I'm over buying new sets now but appreciate your videos keeping me in the loop!
Huh. I guess I should buy singles
Imagine buying singles to get the cards you actually want instead of draining your whole bank acout to gamble on fantasy cards just to get a bunch of junk and a legendary creature you didn't even know existed
Remember folks, there are hot singles near you
If you can afford them? Proxy them at this point.
I basically got every car I needed from this set yesterday for like 30 bucks lol
100000%
I think it sucks for players trying to pick up big score cards but on the other hand it will drive the cards in the regular set wayyyyy down over time.
All these bonus sheet cards and alternate art and alternate treatments and alternate foil treatments make it impossible to organize these damn cards. I’ve been collecting Magic cards since 1998 and all of my cards from before 2020 or 2021 are very neatly and plainly organized in card boxes.
Mu only issue is the bad treatments like extended arts they're so incredibly pointless when it just barely extends the art genuine alt arts are pretty cool
I was at a sealed RCQ today, and the set checklist used for deck registration was two pages, even with tiny font. It's too much.
It's worth noting that for The List in OTJ, the Big Score cards are weighted much higher than the Special Guests cards - the Special Guests only appear in 1 out of 64 boosters. So the odds of getting a new card from the Big Score is actually a little higher than stated in this video - it's closer to 16%. (The Prof's point still stands, though.)
1:64 was for MKM's SPGs, pretty sure it's 1:20 for OTJ's SPGs.
(The WotC news article about collecting OTJ seems to have used the value for SPG without checking if it was still valid ??)
Does anyone else notice how Sandstorm Scavenger appears to be wielding a weapon from Innistrad?
The Prof. looks sharp in my favourite format! Tolarian Winds!
My solution for all the not played cards: donate them or just throw the bulk cards away.
I was hoping the ad was for for card organization because I definitely need it
All of my favorite sets for limited, either draft or sealed, have had bonus sheets. It’s a really fun environment. But I wasn’t thinking about the effect on standard. I didn’t realize the are standard legal
Wait. They’re not increasing the number of list slots to make room for these sheets?
That’s crazy.
We know that they were capable of adding cards from the Big Score to the main Outlaws of Thunder Junction set because that's what they did with the new Jace. He was originally designed to be included in the Big Score due to his presence and influence on the story of Thunder Junction. Since Epilogue Boosters got axed, they decided to include him directly in Outlaws itself as an exception to their new "we're only doing one Standard legal Planeswalker per set going forward" guideline. They could have included him as part of the Big Score bonus sheet, but they specifically chose to make him part of the main set to ensure that he'd be more widely available.
I want block sets back~ I feel like visiting a single theme/plane for a few sets instead of all different themes is cooler!
I agree.
The one thing ill point out which messed with the math is that special guest cards are rarer then big score cards, i believe it worked out for every 11 or 12 big score cards you get one special guest in a play booster
Big Score's power level is broken (unlike Aftermath) and Breaking News contains so much removal, you basically build your limited deck around them.
Big score cards seem either busted or unplayable in limited, which is definitely a choice.
I opened a 4 rare pack last night, called over my judge for a witness
I opened a 3 mythic pack yesterday. I felt pretty powerful.
You can actually get FIVE rares in an OTJ pack: guaranteed rare, non-foil wildcard, foil wildcard, bonus sheet, and "The List" slot.
This reminds me a lot of the Format Staple Box-Toppers problem, except at least in that case you knew what card you were getting.
I feel like I’m very plugged into Magic and I had no idea until this video that Big Score was part of The List :0
Glad to have Professor once again advocating for the players.
Loved your Tie Prof.
Good video. Ive been having a lot of fun with TJ limited! So not sure I fully agree😮
a single booster of Thunder Junction can contain cards from FIVE different sets in. OTJ, OTC, SPG, BIG, OTP. This is absolutely INSANE. every product is so bloated and excessive
Reap and Sow was always a pet card of mine, and Territory Forge reminds me of it... so Im kinda happy it exists
Dein Hemd steht dir sehr gut. Hier ist grad 00:30 Uhr durch. ich komm von einer Bäcker Innungsversammlung in Brandenburg. Leider habe ich glaube ich nicht alles verstanden. Aber du siehst aus wie ein leckerer Snack.❤ ich mein das wirklich positiv.
If they're going to double down on bonus sheets, they should replace the art cards' slot. I'd be much happier when I didn't get the tokens I need because I got a cool reprint or whatever because at least that's something I can play.
Watching this I have nostalgia too the Urza Block days where a foil was really special and you just got 1 rare per pack.
I think it's great, I like being able to get new card staples in my commander decks. I like looking forward to cracking these packs.
I know this is a semi unrelated comment;
But I just wanted to get out my thoughts on a new(ish) Theros Block in a world return;
First off I need to preface that I loved the original Theros block! It is my absolute favorite plane next to Innistrad as my second.
I have always been a big fan of the Heroic and constellation abilities, and I was thinking about a new(ish) kind of combination of the two.
A set of Auras that give the enchanted creature constellation that triggers abilities whenever enchantments ETB.
I am also looking forward to receiving the other 10 “Ordeal of” Aura cards based on the other 10 Gods.
It would be nice to see a return of the HEROIC mechanic in true.
We didn’t get any in Beyond death.
Inspired was a unique ability and there are all kinds of cool things you can do with those; including putting them on BESTOW creatures.
Which by the way - having dual colored bestow creatures with deity themed abilities is very much needed.
And having artifacts that grant various HEROIC abilities. Would make artifacts viable in a set that is greatly dominated by enchantments.
Not to mention that the whole TRIBUTE mechanic was really fun!!! And if there was like a legendary artifact that allows your creatures to have both upon ETB! That could get crazy for Commander games.
Also, MONSTROUS as an ability needs a complete work over.
The monsters need to become ACTUAL monsters. Like real threats not just like a 4 mana 3/3 with monstrous 3 for 5 mana should do more than just become a 6/6 . . . It should also grant key word abilities like Trample, Flying, Lifelink, Deathouch, Can’t be blocked, etc. or maybe deviate the board in some way, as well as enchantments or auras that either make your MONSTROUS abilities cost 2 less to activate, or that instantly turn your monsters into Monstrosities!
(I feel like escape already works well, so that doesn’t need any work)
Though, I don’t know how they are gonna rework the new Gods after the Phyrexian Invasion (side note; total missed opportunities by WIZARDS there - they could have introduced a year of phyrexians invading 3 planes per set for the next year - to really draw out the multiverse wide invasion of 12 of our favorite planes and how the inhabitants fend off the Phyrexians. sigh, but I digress)
Anyway, this would open up opportunities for the introduction of new Gods for the Theros Plane or maybe the restoration of some already beloved Gods.
This new block could be a 3 part set focused on
1. the restoration of the plane from the plane-wide invasion.
2. restoring the obvious power vacuums in the Pantheon. Not to mention maybe remnants of the Phyrexians’ influence on some of the plane’s inhabitants (especially the Minotaurs).
3. The New Theros/NYX, maybe in order to save the plane the two realms merge into some new name like THERYX????!!
And lastly; the Hydras - need to feel more like hydras, where you get to spawn head tokens with X/X where X is the number of Hydra creatures you control. These hydra head tokens could generate when a non token hydra dies and you make X tokens equal to the destroyed hydra’s power. Or maybe a legendary hydra that spawns heads whenever it takes damage - like combining “protean hydra” with “Vigor” but it would remove counters to spawn heads and you could sacrifice heads to restore +1/+1 counters. (Kind of like Chasm Skulker in a way)
Either way, I look forward to revisiting Theros - and I am really hoping to see some of these abilities revamped.
Haha imagine a revamped Hydra Brood-Mother; she could be like a XXGG for cost,
Enters with X +1/+1 counters AND enters with X X/X hydra tokens.
Then when she dies she spawn X X/X head tokens (X = her power)
Or maybe she’s a monstrous creature - like her original design with monstrous XXG where she gets X +1/+1 counters AND THEN spawns X X/X hydra tokens!
. . . Actually that sounds more fair!
😅
I love this!
I just wish it was an actual thing.
I actually like how they did the Big Score cards in this set by replacing the crappy list cards which were more often than not a crappy common from an old set whereas here ur getting mythics that have value AND playability 😁
And I love big score because it has Simulacrum Synthesizer 😮
Some Big Score cards are only mythic in name. I don’t think anyone would consider something like Ancient Cornucopia a mythic worthy card.
@@laurentrobitaille2204I pulled that card twice and was sad both times
@@laurentrobitaille2204 it's more like an uncommon. Mind: I have a 60-card deck based on artifacts and proliferate, A.C. runs at 4 copies, so I know his power; yet, it's an uncommon at best.
They got it right with Kaledesh, wish we could go back to that and 3 block standard with core sets. I just got back into magic after a 4 year break really wanted to get back into paper but at these prices i'll just play arena.
Wizards is pulling a DBZ “this isn’t even my final form” when it comes to rare/mythics.
I pulled the sword and the ring during the 2 prerelease events I participated in. So 2 of my 12 packs had a big score card for a 16% chance of pulling one. Close enough to 13%
Is good that they did reprints for the card economy, it's cool that instead of straight reprints they have special flavour art attached to the "current" expansion. But they implemented the solution/good idea while reintroducing the problem it was trying to tackle to other new cards.
Thunderjunction play boosters are the most fun magic packs i have opened in a long time. It makes the packs worth opening and buying. The added value to the packs is important now that we are at the cost of playboosters. The sales of thunderjunction which has it versus sales of manor speaks for itself.
I don’t mind the extra cards in the set. I like it in draft but yes it is unfortunately causing problems with big score availability and makes it harder for new players to pick up.
I pulled 2 big score mythics in my pre release. Collectors cage and simulacrum synthesizer. Both of them went into liberty prime commander deck. Lol
I opened a box of OTJ and I got 6 set mythics and 6 big score cards + a special guest. The OTJ boosters have 5 potential rare slots compared to 4 in MKM packs. I know it's just one box, but idk, getting the big score cards might not be as difficult as it sounds.
Personally, I enjoyed opening the box and also the prerelease was really fun. I don't think wotc should necessarily do multiple bonus sheets again, but it's been fun for me this time. Basically, I think it's probably fine.
Bro I went full white noise when you started explaining these new packs… mind boggling
Entirely agree as someone who primarily plays limited. I don't think the multiple sheets are necessarily impacting the format's power level any more than, say, March of the Machine's bonus sheet, but the lack of predictability in draft is certainly something that many I've spoken to have mentioned. With all the previous sheets, there's been some kind of theme, creatures, spells, artifacts, etc. It allowed you to draft potential answers accordingly. With OTJ, though it's been great fun to play so far, the random bomb mythics have felt like exactly that: too random. There's just so much stuff that can appear. I very much hope they tone it back in the future.
Man, Star Wars: Unlimited really came out at exactly the right time. Gave me an excellent exit point from this downward spiral that doesn't seem to have brakes.
Personally I love the OTJ packs they feel really good to open and have. I fail to see the real downside as opposed to the positives right now. I suppose in time we will see but opening play boosters and having a lot to look forward to makes them feel more cost effective. Just my opinion of course.
only a small subset of the big score are actually cards that I feel are good cards.
I think that right now is a great time to get in the business of printing playing cards.
I got molten dupplication on the pre release... Didnt even realize it was a bonus sheet card until watching this video just now... It felt like any other card of the set. Good and great, but I didn't even realize it was part of the BIG sheet
I really thought this ad spot was going to be a card organization tool, Factors cool too.
thank you Prof you are amazeing as always and you help everyone save money and spend it wisely
I'm so glad I bought a collector box in hindsight. Pulled the sword and old Oko. I feel like I can wash my hands of the set and go back to getting eldraine packs lol
I do need to be honest... I really really liked the limited experience at the OTJ (pre-)releases!
I love this! It makes it fun that the vault cards cost more.
I love the idea of Bonus sheets, the unique art cards are really exciting, its just a shame about the downsides of said sheets
Big Score is definitely the sticking point here and less indicative of an overall bonus sheet problem than it is a "shoving stuff into a set haphazardly because we fucked up as usual" problem. Special Guests are always going to be List cards and eventually that will become pretty standard knowledge, and the actual bonus sheet is still nice to have. Mana Drain reprint good and all that.
Implement would-be epilogue sets into future sets instead of separate sheets, that works well.
Also, Art Series Booster instead of Art Series in other Boosters
The Big Score is also flavourless. Like why do so many cards look like leftover art.
There’s at least Ixalan, Phyrexia, and Thunder Junction all crammed in there.
Because they were probably meant for an epilogue booster.
@@CatManThreeI know that. But Ixalan and Phyrexia feel out of place. I guess they designed the Big Score based on the events in the epilogue story rather than chronologically.
I'll explain the thing with territorial forge: exiling the one ring (and basically making a copy of it)
Epilogue boosters arent even gone. Beyond boosters are coming this summer.
It was probably too late. They already got the license and designed the set.
he is getting pretty good in the cheeky mtg way to advertise products
It's like somebody woke up one morning, remembered the old block system with smaller supplemental sets that came out after a while to shake up the sealed/draft environment, and decided "we should do that again, but horrible".
I don't blame them for this one fumble; it was the least of two evils. But if it continues gojng forward it'll be a problem.
Very true. Totally agree.
You should. They could just seed more cards into booster packs. It’s not like the content of a PLAY booster are sacrament.
I like the idea of using bonus sheets to put in nice reprints (like Mystic Archive) into both rotation and the card pool in cases where that reprint wouldn't make sense or fit in the standard set (Brazen Borrower, Vaultborn Tyrant, etc) but I do have some serious concerns when it comes to adding new cards or limited the amount that these cards are added. The bonus sheet should be used to fill out the packs with one or two extra cards instead of driving up market value
I like bonus sheets as the name implies, a little bonus. There are so many cards in OTJ’s bonus sheets, it’s just confusing. And the singles I want from them are so expensive that I gotta pick and choose the ones I really want to get first.
Couldn't agree more prof!
I agree I don’t think that they needed to do the big score. It just makes limited more bomb dominated. One of the other things that I don’t like about the play boosters is that with the art cards there are so few tokens, when at a prerelease or a draft you don’t have enough or the right tokens to play with.
I've opened 50+ packs on Arena so far & only pulled 2 Memory Vessels from the "Big Score" set.
I cracked 6 packs of this set. It was exhausting. Like I remember opening stuff and being like “oh man, this looks sick” or “I’m throwing this in XYZ deck for SURE”. Now, I don’t even remember what it is that could be in it, I spent five minutes getting a handle on what we were looking at, then another twenty minutes I had to look up if I could even play what I was opening in my format and then just tucked them in a box.
My thing with bonus sheets is that while they do make a limited format a little more interesting and fun in some respects they also have a tendency to warp the format around them. They’re also pretty difficult to play around because they’re unpredictable.
Completely agree. Hasbro will see the numbers even when Outlaws is not even close to compare with MKM disaster. They might use special slots to justify the higher price.
Honestly, as a person who primarily plays draft and sealed formats, and commander with my friends every once in a while, I'm all for this. I was passed completely fire stuff at my draft last night. I know that I will be hit with a fire pack and have to regret passing up on some cards, but if I'm even out drafting, the main point is for me to have fun. Granted, I know this isn't smart of WotC to do a huge whole sheet of cards thrown into the set, but a more balanced one going in the future should rectify the problems.
Bought and cracked a box of TJ yesterday, only 1 special guest card, no list cards, and none of the chase mythics. Value of boxes is notably lower. You also get way way fewer full art lands. They gotta fix this or im not buying sealed product anymore. Retail price should be no higher than $125-$130.
Remember when that Faithless Looting print was the biggest controversy in MTG? My, how we’ve grown…
I 'member!
Realistically, how many additional sets at this point already had the epilogue sets designed? 3-4? Are they going to pair down the card pool, are they going to continue with expansive bonus sheets with majority of cards on that sheet creating the excitement of soggy bread, or are they going to attempt to expand the epilogue into a two-set planes that's actually worth having as a second release?
I wouldn't be mad if the first set was the primary story affecting it, and the second was the "aftermath" of that plane as long as it's worth being a, and let me say this very clearly, a full sized set. Heck, why not have the second as an Aftermath/Prologue set? Teaser Hype has been a driving force of MTG as of late.
Ehhh doubt its even 3 more, let alone 4. We know at the very least late 2023, well after Aftermath was launched, they revealed they only just started to work on the first sets for 2025. I think at that point they already had the impression that Aftermath was a flop, but they already had essentially the entire 2024 line-up finished well before that. So I doubt any sets in 2025 were planned to have aftermath, and from the remainder of 2024 theres only Bloomborrow and Duskmorn. Assassins Creed was planned to be like a Aftermath set.
Considering not every standard set was planned with a Aftermath set in mind, Murders and Lost Caverns for example, I kinda doubt Duskmorn would have one. Maybe Bloomborow?
I'm amazed they didn't just send out Pikertons to someone's house to take their cards, to generate interest.
It would at least be the flavor of the set, right?
Honestly, I've been enjoying drafting the format. Yes, you can lose to Oko but other than that its been fun to have all those cards pop here and there in packs