Having their moment in the sun, the 1989 to 2001 Mercedes-Benz R129 takes off in the market.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- Having their moment in the sun, the 1989 to 2001 Mercedes-Benz R129 (SL 280, 300SL, SL 320, 500 SL, SL 500, 600SL, SL 600) takes off in the market.
SCM Contributor and German car authority Philip Richter examines the Mercedes-Benz R129 SL Class (SL 280, 300 SL, SL 320, 500 SL, SL 500, 600SL, SL 600) to see what’s driving their increasing popularity in the market. One of Bruno Sacco’s most timeless designs and with everything from an inline and V-6 to a V-8 and V-12 under the hood, there’s an SL to fit every taste and budget. We’ll look at each variant and give you the inside scoop on what to look for!
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I generally agreed with a lot that Philip Richter had to say about the R129. It's an incredibly beautiful and well-designed, well-built SL that appears, finally, to be getting the attention that it deserves from collectors and enthusiasts. As other commenters have said, however, I have to vehemently disagree with what Philip said @18:44 in reference to the M113 V8 motor introduced in 1998 for model year 1999 in the facelifted cars versus the M119 motor in earlier cars. As a so called Mercedes "expert", to make a throw away/blanket statement like "that motor is no good. So you know, you don't want to own the later V8s," is just ridiculous. As a magazine/content provider with the goal of trying to educate its readers and viewers on the classic car market, Sports Car Market Magazine has done a pretty grave disservice here. Philip doesn't provide any context or empirical/objective data to support that claim and John Nikas just nods along and says "OK". Really? Do some research. The M113 is almost universally considered to be a very robust and long-lived engine with the added benefit of providing significantly better fuel economy to these V8 cars that, in general, tend to get dump truck like fuel economy in the first place. I know because I own an R129 SL500 and semi-daily drive it in the summer. To allow someone billed as an "expert" to misinform, malign and turn people off from 4 years of production run of the R129 SL 500 without any factual basis is pretty irresponsible. You guys should issue a correction. Also, another factual inaccuracy in Philip's statement regards the timing/context of the decision to change to the M113 motor as the power plant for V8 models. Though it was called a "merger," Daimler's take over of Chrysler wasn't even executed until November 12, 1998. Everyone knows that it takes years of design and production work to introduce a new motor. The fact that the M113 was introduced in the R129 in 1998 for model year 1999 tells us that this work/decision took place well before the take over of Chrysler which occurred at the end of calendar year 1998. Stop the nonsense guys.
I bought a 1994 R129 SL500 a few days ago, one more point in regards to maintenance is thev ADS system that is over engineered and complex on some of these cars with this option and all of the V12s.
I own a SL500 1995 83k miles, I gotta say this guys speaks the truth! This car is bulletproof inside and out. I’ve owned new Mercedes and they simply don’t make cars like this anymore,
New Mercedes is plastic garbage
Having owned many 80's - 90's Mercedes, I feel compelled to comment on a couple of points made in an otherwise well-done market analysis. 1. The M104 inline six engine, as offered in the R129 from 1993-97, is an outstanding, over-built, reliable engine, which at 230HP provides plenty of pep in this car in everyday traffic and on the highways. The "sweet spot" on 6 cylinder R129 ownership is likely the 1997 model year, due to the biodegradeable wiring harness issue being resolved after 1996, the 5 speed adaptive automatic transmission being offered (vs. 4 speed auto of previous years), and the presence of OBD-II easy plug-in scan tool diagnostics. I have driven the 5 speed manual 300 inline six, and was not that impressed - it did not make the car feel any sportier - plus the 5 speed as offered has a dogleg first gear (down & to the left, then up & to the right for 2nd), which makes for awkward shifting in traffic. There's a reason why M-B dropped the manual in their flagship car early on. 2. The M113 three-valve V8 is actually a very robust design, definitely in the same league as the previous M119, if not better. With the later M113 design, Mercedes made a durable engine even more durable, especially with regards to the timing chains & guides. The early AMG V8s (C43, E55, etc.) were all just modified M113 engines, and have a great reputation for durability and reliability, without any major known issues, over hundreds of thousands of miles of hard use. Just ask someone who owns one (I have two). Anyway, great to see the R129 starting to get the respect it deserves in the marketplace.
Great comment, thanks.
Pete Engel, I agree. The M113 and M112 are great motors. I have a CLK 320 W208 V6 love that car. My Brother has a W210 E55 with well over 300K and not one ounce of problem from the motor at all. He has owned that car since brand new, still going very strong. The only problem he has now with his car is, he had an accident with a Kangaroo on his way to work. I feel a great car to own if collecting would be a V6 W129. That way you can avoid costly suspension issues on the V8 and V12 models. But that said if you have the money to correct the suspension issues if they ever prop up, why not a V8 or V12.
Later v8 are great engines. More fuel efficient and more torque which made if feel sportier. No sure where he got his information which is clearly wrong.
I am selling my 1997 Sl500 original owner , 26k miles, panoramic hard top.....great car...need garage space
The most beautiful R129‘s are the ones from the earlier 90s up to 1993….Truest to Bruno Sacco’s design intention. Absolutely correct: these ultra low mileage cars aren’t the ones to actually look for…..this often is worse than a middle mileage driven car.
Don’t replace the hydraulic cylinders have them rebuilt for 50 bucks a piece. They are better than new then.
Where James?
@@209euro2 Top Hydraulics in Oregon
@@jamesreckling6697 yep I sent mine to them they rebuilt them and sent them back good as new easy to replace. they have a youtbe page now th-cam.com/channels/42mwub5KDCu2zDtCi-K7aw.html
bought a silver 2000 SL 500 Sport for $3000 it has 205K on the meter but rides and drives like a Dream, im very happy just the same.
Hugely disagree about the M119 vs M113 argument. The M113 is a robust engine that is more efficient than the prior M119. Both are great engines, but to say the M113 is "no good" is an egregious statement. Otherwise, I agree that the R129 is finally coming into its stride and is here to stay as a collectible. The R109 market has seen insane froth.
I also heard from my friend mechanic, who works on Mercedes that M113 engine is pretty bulletproof. However many people reeves about M119
I totally agree with you. I own them both (a '94 and a '99) and despite the supposed 20hp difference, they feel exactly the same. Perhaps if we were regularly driving 140mph on the autobahn might be able to tell (but i doubt it). The '99 also has the 5-spd trans, a noticeable improvement. Anyone who passes on a good '99-2002 model because of this is making a real mistake.
He contradicts himself saying that m113 is no good, but the v6 is better than the straight 6 - the V6 is the same engine as the m113 less a bank of cylinders (m112). Even Pierre will tell you the m113 is Bullet proof. Plus lighter and more useable torque.
I just bought my Black on Black 1995 R129 with 132,000 miles
You’re thinking of the M275 v12 that has 24 spark plugs. The M120 only has 12
I Bought mine (1997 SL 500 La costa edition) in 2002 drove it for about 18 years put well over 70K on it (current mileage about 140k) , she's replaced now by an S63 , but I still have it and won't let go of it I'm about to put some new shocks and brakes on it, engine still running strong ,
Great video... I have an R129 and a W140 and they're both terrific. That whole era of Mercedes is legendary really. I have the M119 in the W140 and I have the M104 straight six in the R129 (both cars are 1995). The six is a great engine in the SL... when I first bought the car I was concerned that maybe I'd miss the power of the V8, but the six really does well and has a nice exhaust note too. It also helps that they used the five speed automatic box on the six, while the V8 got the four speed until 1996.
It's great that the market is finally waking up to these cars; it's long past time they get the appreciation they deserve. You guys should talk about the W140 at some point also, it's another car that's on the uptick.
I got the same cars. 1994 s500 coupe
1992 300sl 24valve.
In Love with Both.
I agree with these guys prices are on the rise. I also own both the R129 and the W140. A silver 2000 SL500, White 1997 S320 They both are built like tanks, over engineered. They definitely don’t build cars like this anymore. Amazing ride quality solid bulletproof drive train, fun to drive. I believe the wiring harnesses were corrected after 96. My R129 has the M113 engine I feel is a perfect engine more economical and lighter weight than the M119 just a little less horsepower about same torque. My opinion the SL looks great with top off and hard top on. Not a big fan on the look of the soft top, only in emergencies if it starts to rain. If you ever wanted one of these now is the time, don’t hold off.
You guys should talk about the W140 C140 coupé at some point also, it's another car that's on the uptick.
I just bought a 92k mile one for $2700
The wiring harness issues are only in 1995 and earlier cars. Also, the post-1995 R129's have the much better 5 speed electronic (not 4 speed hydraulic) transmissions. Buying only a 1996 or newer R129 is a no-brainer.
Have to disagree. I have a 1994 SL320 and the 5 speed auto box and revvy bulletproof straight six engine (right up to 6000 like a sewing machine) and crisp exhaust note and delightful handling are all an absolute pleasure. Harness fixed btw... not a dealbreaker at all.
@@christophervan6966 Totally agreed.... I've both a 1995 SL500 and my current 1995 SL320 - and I LOVE the SL320! Its very peppy in town, gets amazing gas mileage, exhaust sounds amazing.... just replaced some of the hydraulic cylinders for my power soft top - I LOVE THIS CAR!
He said “3rd Beverly Hills wife on her way to get Botox injections”...🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Just bought my 2000 SL500 AMG Sport and I cannot wait to take it on a road trip.
I have 96 sl320 great car
great cars , I own a 300sl24 since new and its been stress free.
The dohc straight six in the 300sl24 is a great engine
Biodegradable wiring harness was only on 1993-95 cars.Bought my LHD 92 500SL in 2008 with 40000 Kilometers from Japan. Now @ 61000 KM's it's been a great car & no issues.
Drive a Manual 5 Speed 6 cylinder before purchase.The dog leg" Hewland Pattern" Gearbox is notchy & not for everyone.The 5 Litre M119 is 322 HP & the sweet spot for R129's.
Best most desirable R129 is 1996-97 SL500 Sport package with Panorama roof.
V12's standard active body control ( was also an option to avoid on V8's too) is problematic with age & expensive to fix. Keep in mind if a V12 ever has an oil leak you will find the car is built around the engine & it will probably have to come out which is BIG bucks.
I got a 1999 SL320 V6 auto 2 owners with 107k and a full history and it has given me no trouble in 5 years! Has the panoramic roof and heated seats and the fully automatic roof still pulls a crowd! The auto is better suited to car as it is a tourer - it is not a sports and that's why manuals are rare - nobody wanted them because it didn't suit the car!
I just bought a 1990 500SL from the first owner who was a Forbes 500 CEO back in the 90's.
There is 50k miles on the clock and has full service history.
It will be a graduation present for my son.
We have just celebrated his first birthday :-)
Fantastic.
I have a 97 sl500 sport in silver with the pano roof amg monochrome’s an HID headlights... love it
I have owned my 96 320sl for 14 years . I will never sell it . Awesome car.
Me too. Kindly note it's an SL320 😁
I've owned a few. I presently own a Silver 1997, Pano Roof, SL500 Sport with 35K Miles. The R129 is a great car. Finding a good example for cheap is getting harder but there are still opportunities out there if you look. There is still a good supply in the San Francisco Bay Area, Southern California and Florida... Great Bang for the Buck. Just know that it's not a super nimble "sports car" it's a very refined, comfortable, fun to drive, Grand Touring car.
V12 or nothing.
I have 2, to me it's all about the 12cyl.
😭😭😭 I need to find one that starts
I just picked up an R129 SL500 for 500 British Pounds, undergoing a mild restoration now!
I just bought one ‘91 300SL with 55k
phillip knows a lot but doesn't have all his facts straight. The m113 is a very good motor. it was designed for tightening emissions standards. It is a fine and thoroughly modern engine. Far lighter, cleaner, efficient, smoother and longer lived than the m119...
Purchased a 93 500SL a few weeks ago and love it
15:00 Good luck finding a new wiring harness anywhere for a couple thousand. MB doesn't even produce them anymore for the SL600.
This was a very good video, well-paced and informative. But, IMO it had four questionable points, some of which have been covered, by other posters The bio-degradable harness was not an issue after 1996, denigrating the M113 engine (which from most accounts is as durable and a lot less expensive to maintain), the throwaway line on the red colors being no good (I have one and they usually demand a premium) and the $7K+ cost to rebuild the soft top (true if done at a dealer, but it can be done for far less at an independent hydraulics shop).
I recently bought a 1999 SL500 with $35K miles in excellent condition (200 point inspection at a MB dealer). It was a dream car for me, I had done some research on its reliability, so it's a bonus to now find out that it might also be a good investment. Especially since my wife was fearful I was acquiring a "money pit" - hope she's not right!
The M119 is completely superior, the engine they replaced it with in 1999 was done so solely for cost - they were cheaper to make - and it shows.
@@j.k.cascade2057 Provide data for your assertion.
I have Dave Thomas (founder of Wendy's) 1991 500SL. 20K miles. I think its the cleanest R129 in the US
Try keep the mileage down but be sure to drive the car weekly up to proper operating temperature.
That is awesome! What a cool car to have (as if having an R129 isn't cool enough - you have Dave Thomas'!). How did you come across that? I love celebrity owned cars..... I had a W140 previously that was owned by Ken Venturi who won the US Open in 1969 i think..... it was absolutely pristine, a 1995 with 55k original miles, like brand new. I had been told Frank Sinatra was a close friend of his and rode in the car a few times - way cool!
Mine was a Sheiks lol
Where’s the Beef?
Are you in Ohio?
I have the 96 sl600 from a texas oil man and a 97 sl600 from a beverly hills plastic surgeon one black one silver and both are amazing!! The m119 in my 97 black sl 500 is a great daily driver!!
You guys should talk about the W140 C140 at some point also, it's another car that's on the uptick.
Great conversation. I always loved the R129 since I was a child and was able to pick up a '97 SL600 with 60k miles about 8 months ago just before this jump in value. The heavy depreciation always seemed silly to me and it turns out I was right. I was fortunate to find an example that just had the soft top and suspension hydraulics rebuilt as well! It is such an incredible car to own and even better one to drive and enjoy. I was planning on keeping this one forever but if prices keep climbing, who knows!
I own a '97 320, and yes, i'd never part with it. One note: the vid is riddled with technical inaccuracies, but anyway, the subject is elsewhere. Yes, the R129 can only go up in value. It's worth 1/3rd of a bitcoin today. Go for it.
I drive a 92 500sl daily it’s a great little car and in beautiful shape I maintain it meticulously
I agree with the Silver Arrow seats. I don’t think they do the car justice.
Just to clear things up; the M113 is categorically not " a bad motor". In every category it more or less matches the M119 and in fuel consumption is more frugal than the M119. The M113, like the V6 M112 is a great engine matched to a great transmission. The V8 M119 is however a purists' engine and a masterpiece.
If you want the genuine expression of R129 and Sacco's clean, unadorned design then the model years 90-92 are the ones to go for. None of them had wiring harness issues and all of them were built to old-school Mercedes standards particularly in terms of the quality of cabin fitments and materials. From then on the design was tinkered with and build standards, though still high, dropped away as happened on the W124 and virtually every Mercedes model from 95 onwards.
M113 is a good engine.
Yea why did he say you don’t want the later v8. I have an 2001 R129 with the m113. 86,000 miles and runs perfect. Im the 4th owner but no issues and was assured by multiple indy mechanics that there is no mechanical issues apart from some worn seals.
@@Random59427 He is literally the first person I have ever heard say this - my mechanic said "thank god you bought the 2002 otherwise it would be a maintenance nightmare". I prefer to drive a car I buy and not constantly repair it.
I have a ‘94 with 102k miles on it, SL280 straight 6, autobox. It was previously owned by an enthusiast and has been well looked after generally. The front wings rot badly, mine has had oem replacements fitted and a bare metal respray. Definitely agree that the wiring harness can be an issue and the soft top hydraulics are antsy as well. There are some excellent specialists out there though. Plastic Trim goes brittle with age, and hard to find parts, some have 3D printed replacements.
Good video, intelligent and very insightful into the R129 and what it’s like to drive and own one. I’ve just bought a 1996 SL500 R129 (July 2021 here in the U.K.) that was kept in storage in Japan for 24 years after initial use…total mileage from new is 4,100 miles😎
I also have an R107 (300SL) but my plan is to drive the 129 across Europe next summer and stick 10,000 miles on it and then sell it for probably what I paid for it or maybe a bit more if the values keep rising. My 107 has gained £10k in 3 years albeit it’s a garage queen with low miles so the 129 will give me the little extra things I would like for long trips such as electric hood, air conditioning and of course power!
I can’t get excited about new cars (my partner has a C63, fast but it’s like owning white goods these days and feels disposable at a fairly short point in its life)
Totally disagree about the M113 engine comment at the end! It’s one of the best V8s ever and more efficient then M119 and lighter. The M113 had so much reserve and derivatives like M113K demo the potential of that design!
No, the commentator is correct, the M119 engine is vastly superior. You want a pre 1999 build for the engine, and a post 1995 for the 5-speed transmission. The best combination for this car is 1996-1998
@@j.k.cascade2057 but why? Where are the facts? You need to explain statements like that. Look at the specs and maintenance manual, moving parts, manufacturing process and longevity before postulating an opinion.
@@siegfriedbarfuss9379 the m113 is the better motor and they are faster too
m119 is by far more maintenance and trouble- ive heard this from MANY experts, including my mechanic
I have had two S 500’s both with the M113 motor, over 200,000 miles without one engine problem. This engine was truly the Best Mercedes engine for reliability and economy.
A most extraordinary piece of engineering, das beste, oder nichts. Lo mejor o nada. The best or nothing...
Bellissima.
Don't forget the R129 SL600 suspension maintenance.
In March 2021, I purchased my first M.B. A 2000 SL500 with 62k miles for $9,900. Purchased from a pastors wife, her "other" Mercedes. Third owner. Garage Queen all it's life. A few usual suspect issues like the sun visor plastic doodad, and the plastic louvered dash vents, and minor tearing thru the soft top rear window by the stitching. I am a retired auto tech so maintenance is not a problem. Love the car, drives like a dream. And to think, I almost dropped $67k on a new Mustang.
Nice discussion, my next daily driver will be R129.
Definitely a great choice!
Got my 98' with the m119. Ported and polished the throttle body, port matched to intake.
Very very reliable.
Purchased at 160,000 miles, bought for $2,600 in 2017. I don't plan on ever selling it.
Too rare, very simple repair, looks great in black, red, and silver. Looks great on HR springs or even coilovers
I had a 95 500 that I absolutely loved. No problems whatsoever and I did great selling it right on my lot. Right now I have a 92 300sl. I’ve put about 7000 into it but it’s back in it’s full glory. Praying I can find the right customer even considering trying bring a trailer. I would do anything for a 600!
300s seem tough to sell for a lot, everyone wants a 5 or a 600 it seems.
SL stands for Superliecht, not Sportliecht
Sl r129 ❤👍👍🧢🧢
I own a 2000 SL 500 and the engine is great. It seems there is always a debate amongst enthusiasts of this car between the previous V8 engines. I have a friend who own the previous gen and the difference is negligible. Both are great cars and great engines.
Wiring harness issues stopped after 95 when they got rid of the biodegradable harness. 96 through 98 are the ones to get.
Or get one that the harness is repaired... I have a 94 SL320 with a fixed harness and it's absolutely fabulous
@@christophervan6966 No thanks. Glad you like yours but the 4 speed transmission is a deal killer for me.
@@jamesreckling6697 My 1994 SL320 straight six has a five speed auto box which is a thing of beauty.
@@christophervan6966 I forgot they put the 5 speed in the six cylinders first. A much better car than having a 4 speed.
The in-line six with manual 5 gear is a rare and great combination. You can cruise the car but you can also really push the car to its limits at 6,ooo r/pm.
What a wonderful car and one of the last real Mercedes!
on the 6 in-line, there are 2 manuals 5-gears shift; 1) sporty which has the first gear back left and 5-gear direct and the standard shift which has the first gear forward and the 5th is gas saving...! i had the sporty one on a 300-24 SL but after few years i switched to a SL320 auto-trans because i like it more
@@francescosalvioli Interesting. I have the sporty manual gear and thought that was the only one available. Of the approx 10 R129 available in good or excellent conditions, all are manual gear sporty and the engine is the M104 in either 280SL or -like mine- the 300SL-24.
Again, what a classy car and it is fun to drive with the gearbox.
@@henning0466 there are 2 trans manual models let me be back on my desk this evening and I will send you something more...as I remember the less sporty manual was standard on the 6 inline 300SL 190 cv
Beautiful
man, in 2008 before buying my 1995 SL500 Mille Miglia, I read as much as i could and came across this 500 for sale in the US. The guy had traversed the US for years and clocked over half a million miles. He had the camshafts measured on a micrometre and there was no visible wear. Ive owned mine for 13 years, put on 60,000 miles in the UK and France and it runs like new. It currently has 115,000 miles. Sure Ive had it serviced on the dot and always used MB parts. The soft top / hard top has never failed and ive used it in Winter in the UK in dreadful weather and i always feel safe, warm cosy what ever is going on outside. I love my R129 and will never part with it. A note on the M113, I had a C43 AMG estate for 12 years with that engine and it too was 100% reliable and I am a lead foot i dont care about gas milage and drive hard when ever i can. MB never had a single recall on the M119 or M113, they are both bullet proof, engines and gearboxes. I now have a C63s estate as well as the SL500 and the W205 is nowhere near as robust as theW202 or the R129. It marks more easily and scuffs too. I'm extremely careful with my cars but i have to treat the W205 with kid gloves. The engine is mind blowing , has 510 hp and is monstrously fast so i done mind the extra care but as you say, the R129 pre 1996 was bult to last for ever.
'90 300SL I picked up cheap with > 100k miles...not and investment but still a great car to drive and enjoy. the in-line 6 M104 does have head gasket fail at some point but, mine did, just resolve and keep driving....past 165k now
Best car
Great video 👍
I love my 1990 300sl…. Second owner 😊. Great car but maintenance is important to maintain just like any car.
Couldn't agree more!
1990 500 sl
Just bought 98 SL500 from my dad. He was the second owner, bought it with 20,000 miles in 2002. It now has 127,000 miles. I'm getting ready to have it detailed. One problem is the driver seat has a hole in the booster that needs to be fix. Anybody knows how much that might cost?
Part match from Mercedes website for your car and copy the part number from them and look for it on eBay. 98 is the best year
Dose the 1998 have 119 or the113
Can you believe I was hit on each side is very car 500 SL 1990 Mercedes had the car 20 years never any major problems fainted in the heat last summer went through intersection on a red light after fainting from the Heat I believe this car is the best car ever built I will buy another one as soon as I can the problem is and what I should have not done is Let It Go I should have kept car received almost 7,000 from Insurance have problems getting parts because I would not put a part on that car that wasn't a Mercedes-Benz Park some of those parts how hard to find
Do all of those r129's have that annoying biodegradable electronics?
Only until 1996.
@@angelg2638 Seems that late model years are the only way to go with these cars
@@angelg2638 The CIS injected cars have none of those wires, the earliest ones are some of the most reliable as far as I can research. I own a 91 500SL as well.
Looking for one right now anybody want to put some comments and send me to some sites I'm ready
M113 is no good 😂. All those M113/M113k engines. Got a C43/E55/SL55K/SL500 R129 all powered with the M113. What are AMG/ Mercedes thinking 😂. Overall thou good review on the R129.
I Have a black 1997 SL320 with 27, 000 miles in perfect condition including the interior. All original including the radio, wheels, glass etc. Never been in an accident. It is truly a great car!