16:49 Correct, but then you make the same mistake in lumping "The Europeans" together. Yes the EU is a thing, but each member country has its own motivations, and also the distinction must be made between these countries' governments and their taxpayers. Germany for example is a leader in the EU, and they are heavily motivated by the fallout of WWI and WWII to outsource their defense, yet the populous is not in some magical unanimous agreement about this. Brexit is a great example of this complex dynamic, and the need to recognize the various layers. It's honestly silly to say "The Europeans" at this point.
We have a major gold currency in the world since a week or two. I thought you would be all over it. Please, discuss it! 5000 Ruble for 1 gram gold. Ruble/USD exchange rate back to before the invasion. We have a major upheaval of world economy, especially monetarily. "Come'on now" and apply Austrian theory on current events!
Buying gold with paper/digital rubles isn't the same as guaranteeing the ruble by allowing the ruble to be redeemed by a fixed amount of gold. Interesting event none the less.
Kind of a moot point now. Germany and Poland are vastly expanding their militaries, and the US keeps a lot more leverage over world affairs by staying in NATO (able to threaten departure over something more serious, to secure European cooperation), than by leaving it now.
@Unbroken On the contrary, NATO has become hugely useful again as a uniting mechanism between ourselves and the Europeans. Before the invasion I was in favor of threatening departure from NATO in order to bring Europe to its senses and get cooperation from them on the major issues of our time, but now there's no need for that anymore, and we save enormously more leverage in the tank by keeping that possibility open in future, rather than leaving right now. Not to mention leaving right now would be perceived horribly around the world, most crucially in Asia, as we would be seen to be leaving under pressure, as not having a stomach for maintaining major international commitments. That could lead to a lot of hedging policies (out of fear that America couldn't be counted on as a bulwark against Chinese regional hegemony) in places like Korea, India, Japan, Taiwan, Australia, Philippines, Malaysia, the list goes on and on.
@Unbroken On many very important issues you damn well should care that you can be united with the Europeans. The Europe+America is about half the global economy, when we can decide on something together we tend to get our way, or when it comes to discouraging the opposite, an aggressor tends not to get their way. To give just one policy example, right now the EU is absolutely critical to WTO reform, which in turn is critical to more beneficial terms of trade between countries not possessing FTAs, especially China and the restrictive trade practices they’re able to get away with.
@Unbroken The UK and France pay above 2% of GDP as required, now Germany (the other major European power) has committed to doing so as well. Did you read my original comment?? Poland is also doubling their military.
@Unbroken Or even better yet when it comes to examples involving China, say the Chinese were thinking to invade Taiwan. Well now, now the notion they’re gonna peal the EU away into a position of apathy, that nonsense doesn’t work if America-Europe are this close. Again, Europe’s economic power is immense, & if Beijing felt it would be facing this level of response as we’ve seen since February, it is not gonna be inclined to invade. Furthermore when it comes to our position, being in NATO we are in a position to demand things from the Europeans, in this case…that they sanction/embargo China together with us, so that we don’t actually have to use military force to intervene. Then, then if they say no, we still have the leverage to say “okay fine, say goodbye to NATO.”
@Unbroken Pretty soon it won't be any longer, the US will finally be a value-add to an alliance that pulls its own weight in Europe. Poland is doubling its military, and Germany is doubling its military spending. The new gas deal signed with the EU eats away at more than half of the $40 billion annual DOD spending in Europe, and I am confident we can A: find other areas of mutual benefit to make it worthwhile, even if it does still stop short of a full-fledged Free Trade Agreement, and B: the diplomatic benefits and leverage it gives us in international affairs, is more than worth whatever remaining gap there is. The real problematic argument from a pro-NATO perspective, is the extent to which it could make war more likely for Americans, after all in many alliances across history we see a trend of smaller nations - knowing the security guarantor has their back - acting more irresponsibly and putting the larger country's credibility on the line. But Russia has show itself to be so incompetent militarily, frankly thats not really much a worry anymore. And there would ofc be other negative consequences to the timing of leaving NATO right now, such as a complete undermining of American diplomacy with virtually every country in East Asia.
@Unbroken maybe because the US took all the nukes from Ukraine, offered fake protection in return? Do you understand that next country that wants to develop a nuke will simply ignore US, and your policy of safer world just ended
@Unbroken Because it gives them power. Why do you think Germany threw money on Nordstream and told the US to pound sand. Now the Germans have shot themselves in both foots... Why is that? Because Russia + Germany/central Europe is a long paranoid nightmare that UK and later on US has done everything to sabotage. It's a threat..
If you're going to ask the question, at least attempt to answer it. NATO was formed after the expansion of the Soviet Union, taking territory after the war such as East Germany. NATO was formed to keep Russia out, and Germany down. Why do we, or did we think we needed to do this? Stopping a great power like Russia from having outsized influence in Europe was geostrategicly important, and we were sacred of what kind of Germany we would have next. The fact of the matter is, even though we were allied to defeat Nazi Germany, the US-Soviet alliance was one made on the basis of common enemy. After that enemy was defeated, the truth came out, which was that the US/Western world was ideologically opposed to a state that proposed and supported international communism. The fact is the US has to worry about Europe because even though we didn't want to get involved in 2 world wars (WW1 is debatable) we were drawn in. This idea that we can let Europe just be and settle their messes by themselves ignores the fact that any major wars starting in Europe will turn into something more expensive just due to economic might and control of the countries there. Why does the US feel the need to support NATO now? If NATO wasn't there, we'd have to worry about the expansion of Russia into Eastern Europe and the expansion of the Russia empire. Why do we still need Nato after the fall of the SU? We may not, but a military alliance like NATO is one where we feel it's better to have it and not need it, than to not have it and need it. I think NATO should remain, but we should be criticizing NATO like Trump did and not be so scared to antagonize them as the political class seems to be.
NATO is a relic of the Cold War. Time to move on. You actually think Russia is in an extensive expansion mode right now? Lots of Americans are just infected by the narrative right now to think clearly much less understand what's going on in Ukraine right now.
Lol "Europes defence". You could've just said Ukraines defence but no you had to go more dramatic and say "Europe's Defense"---,,,, both of them would essentially mean world war 3
US funds majority of NATO and many European members don’t meet 2% requirement (which in itself is still a substandard amount). US also subsidizes European healthcare
Answer: Because printer goes brrr
So they can have free health insurance and mock us for not. Lol
16:49 Correct, but then you make the same mistake in lumping "The Europeans" together. Yes the EU is a thing, but each member country has its own motivations, and also the distinction must be made between these countries' governments and their taxpayers. Germany for example is a leader in the EU, and they are heavily motivated by the fallout of WWI and WWII to outsource their defense, yet the populous is not in some magical unanimous agreement about this. Brexit is a great example of this complex dynamic, and the need to recognize the various layers. It's honestly silly to say "The Europeans" at this point.
We have a major gold currency in the world since a week or two. I thought you would be all over it.
Please, discuss it! 5000 Ruble for 1 gram gold. Ruble/USD exchange rate back to before the invasion.
We have a major upheaval of world economy, especially monetarily. "Come'on now" and apply Austrian theory on current events!
Buying gold with paper/digital rubles isn't the same as guaranteeing the ruble by allowing the ruble to be redeemed by a fixed amount of gold.
Interesting event none the less.
Politicians get kickbacks.
Kind of a moot point now. Germany and Poland are vastly expanding their militaries, and the US keeps a lot more leverage over world affairs by staying in NATO (able to threaten departure over something more serious, to secure European cooperation), than by leaving it now.
@Unbroken On the contrary, NATO has become hugely useful again as a uniting mechanism between ourselves and the Europeans. Before the invasion I was in favor of threatening departure from NATO in order to bring Europe to its senses and get cooperation from them on the major issues of our time, but now there's no need for that anymore, and we save enormously more leverage in the tank by keeping that possibility open in future, rather than leaving right now.
Not to mention leaving right now would be perceived horribly around the world, most crucially in Asia, as we would be seen to be leaving under pressure, as not having a stomach for maintaining major international commitments. That could lead to a lot of hedging policies (out of fear that America couldn't be counted on as a bulwark against Chinese regional hegemony) in places like Korea, India, Japan, Taiwan, Australia, Philippines, Malaysia, the list goes on and on.
@@Cotswolds1913 it seems hugely useful for erasing Europeans.
@Unbroken On many very important issues you damn well should care that you can be united with the Europeans. The Europe+America is about half the global economy, when we can decide on something together we tend to get our way, or when it comes to discouraging the opposite, an aggressor tends not to get their way.
To give just one policy example, right now the EU is absolutely critical to WTO reform, which in turn is critical to more beneficial terms of trade between countries not possessing FTAs, especially China and the restrictive trade practices they’re able to get away with.
@Unbroken The UK and France pay above 2% of GDP as required, now Germany (the other major European power) has committed to doing so as well. Did you read my original comment?? Poland is also doubling their military.
@Unbroken Or even better yet when it comes to examples involving China, say the Chinese were thinking to invade Taiwan. Well now, now the notion they’re gonna peal the EU away into a position of apathy, that nonsense doesn’t work if America-Europe are this close.
Again, Europe’s economic power is immense, & if Beijing felt it would be facing this level of response as we’ve seen since February, it is not gonna be inclined to invade. Furthermore when it comes to our position, being in NATO we are in a position to demand things from the Europeans, in this case…that they sanction/embargo China together with us, so that we don’t actually have to use military force to intervene. Then, then if they say no, we still have the leverage to say “okay fine, say goodbye to NATO.”
What do you mean by our size? In comparison we are actually a very small country. We are productive hard working people, not big by any means.
Which country??
@Unbroken Pretty soon it won't be any longer, the US will finally be a value-add to an alliance that pulls its own weight in Europe. Poland is doubling its military, and Germany is doubling its military spending. The new gas deal signed with the EU eats away at more than half of the $40 billion annual DOD spending in Europe, and I am confident we can A: find other areas of mutual benefit to make it worthwhile, even if it does still stop short of a full-fledged Free Trade Agreement, and B: the diplomatic benefits and leverage it gives us in international affairs, is more than worth whatever remaining gap there is.
The real problematic argument from a pro-NATO perspective, is the extent to which it could make war more likely for Americans, after all in many alliances across history we see a trend of smaller nations - knowing the security guarantor has their back - acting more irresponsibly and putting the larger country's credibility on the line. But Russia has show itself to be so incompetent militarily, frankly thats not really much a worry anymore. And there would ofc be other negative consequences to the timing of leaving NATO right now, such as a complete undermining of American diplomacy with virtually every country in East Asia.
@Unbroken maybe because the US took all the nukes from Ukraine, offered fake protection in return? Do you understand that next country that wants to develop a nuke will simply ignore US, and your policy of safer world just ended
@Unbroken Because it gives them power. Why do you think Germany threw money on Nordstream and told the US to pound sand. Now the Germans have shot themselves in both foots... Why is that? Because Russia + Germany/central Europe is a long paranoid nightmare that UK and later on US has done everything to sabotage. It's a threat..
If you're going to ask the question, at least attempt to answer it. NATO was formed after the expansion of the Soviet Union, taking territory after the war such as East Germany. NATO was formed to keep Russia out, and Germany down. Why do we, or did we think we needed to do this? Stopping a great power like Russia from having outsized influence in Europe was geostrategicly important, and we were sacred of what kind of Germany we would have next. The fact of the matter is, even though we were allied to defeat Nazi Germany, the US-Soviet alliance was one made on the basis of common enemy. After that enemy was defeated, the truth came out, which was that the US/Western world was ideologically opposed to a state that proposed and supported international communism.
The fact is the US has to worry about Europe because even though we didn't want to get involved in 2 world wars (WW1 is debatable) we were drawn in. This idea that we can let Europe just be and settle their messes by themselves ignores the fact that any major wars starting in Europe will turn into something more expensive just due to economic might and control of the countries there.
Why does the US feel the need to support NATO now? If NATO wasn't there, we'd have to worry about the expansion of Russia into Eastern Europe and the expansion of the Russia empire.
Why do we still need Nato after the fall of the SU? We may not, but a military alliance like NATO is one where we feel it's better to have it and not need it, than to not have it and need it. I think NATO should remain, but we should be criticizing NATO like Trump did and not be so scared to antagonize them as the political class seems to be.
NATO serves as nothing but a provocating anachronism of the cold war era. Its very existence fulfills its own pretext.
NATO is a relic of the Cold War. Time to move on. You actually think Russia is in an extensive expansion mode right now? Lots of Americans are just infected by the narrative right now to think clearly much less understand what's going on in Ukraine right now.
Lol "Europes defence". You could've just said Ukraines defence but no you had to go more dramatic and say "Europe's Defense"---,,,, both of them would essentially mean world war 3
European his helpless in the terms of security
They are USA slave
Defend Europe from who?
Talking NATO. The European free ride on defense should end. Time for US TOTAL withdrawal from Europe.
@@percyblok6014European countries is USA slave.
US funds majority of NATO and many European members don’t meet 2% requirement (which in itself is still a substandard amount). US also subsidizes European healthcare