Assurance (Pathfinder 2e Rule Reminder #38)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ก.ย. 2024
- How does Assurance work? Does Assurance suffer the multiple attack penalty? Do I add ability bonuses to Assurance?
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This video is sponsored by Roll For Combat, a Paizo official actual play podcast! Check out all their great content here: rollforcombat.com/
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Want to help support the channel?
Get your name listed at the end of my videos by joining my Patreon :
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Thank me with a cup of coffee!
▶️ ko-fi.com/HowItsPlayed
But those guys r terrible
So... the video about the one feat that allows you to NOT roll is sponsored by... Roll For Combat...
I like the irony!!
Most of my players had, at one point or another, commented on how this feat sucked. I then immediately commented that "did you not read where it lets you ignore ANY penalty". But even I hadn't thought about its implications for things like trip etc. Good on you man!
That's why I rate Assurance so highly. It's surprising how often removing randomness and penalties from certain skill checks would come in handy. From "Treat Wounds" to "Long Jump".
This changes EVERYTHING!
That's EXACTLY how I felt when it was brought to my attention!
Hey there, I helped a bit with this video (by confirming everything was correct) and a few extra notes on what DOES affect Assurance.
One example is the spell _Ancestral Memories_ heightened to 6th makes you an expert. So if you had Assurance Athletics but were not an expert, and then used ancestral memories to become an expert, that would increase the Assurance value.
Another example of how your Assurance can go DOWN is with Krampus's regression ability. This would screw up all your Assurances by reducing you to trained in everything that was expert or better.
Those are the only two that I can really think of that can affect Assurance, otherwise, it's pretty much locked in stone whenever you want to use it.
Thanks, man! I appreciate you chiming in... those examples had to be cut for time. :)
Thanks I was having trouble thinking of things that modify DCs in this context
Awesome video. One thing to add to this as well. Assurance is also one of the fortune effects that work with secret checks.
Good point! I have a bad habit of overlooking Fortune effects.
Assurance is also great for a skill tied to a low ability modifier (esp if the mod is negative).
you could technical roll with assurance a trained medicine check for treat wounds, you only need 5+ and would always get a success in that.
or other stuff, who have usual static checks or at least know, where the dc is
I realize that this video is 3 years old.... but this I never knew, and now that I do, my mind is blown! Thank you!
Assurance is particularly good for skills that have uses vs the environment rather than adversaries. Having no chance to fail a simple climb check (DC 10 or 15 @level 3) can be immensely helpful. You can use these benefits even in stressful situations like combat. No need to worry about falling on your face during a jump, fall, balancing a ledge, surviving in the wild, etc. Athletics, Acrobatics, Medicine and Survival stand out the most in those situations.
It's also good for knowledges. It assures no crit fails on learning/identifying spells and critters. You can auto learn spells 1 spell level lower than your max slot most of the time if your proficiency rank stays max. It allows you to ID critters 2 levels below you (or your level very easy/common) without hesitation. There are a few levels where you can ID creatures at your level if maxed on proficiency (7 and 8 are some).
In general vs checks that are using a simple DC (smash or climb that wooden door/wall, recalling knowledge about subjects/events, gathering info) assurance does well. It doesn't do as well against creatures/traps as those tend to be closer to or above PC levels.
I love Assurance, finally it's getting some recognition.
Have a player that came over from D&D playing a gnome half-orc giant barbarian with a meteor hammer. Once I showed him the value of being able to trip at reach with assurance (Great damage mitigation since it effectively causes most enemies to lose two actions standing up and moving in range) he's been a machine.
Learned several new things in this one
Glad to hear it!
Yes, thank you for the examples for the Assurance feat. It does makes a difference in situations when modifiers are getting the better of the character.
Great video as usual. Another application I found for Assurance was on my arcane sorcerer who has a +0 intelligence modifier. I picked up Assurance (Arcana), became an expert in Arcana at level 3 and now I can use assurance to automatically succeed at learning spells that are at least one level lower than my highest level spell slot. Saves me having to risk being unable to learn the spell until my next level which can be pretty brutal, and also prevents the risk of gold loss from critically failing. It lets me keep intelligence as my dump stat.
I just want to say anything had you writing the Core rulebook for Pathfinder second edition it would've made more sense looking through the book thank you for all your wisdom. I love the game I wish it was a little bit more clear and the way they explained things but that's why we have your channel
thank you very very much
You're very welcome! And thanks for the kind words!
Thank you for taking a feat that I thought sucked, to one I am now considering (full disclosure - every time I read the feat, I probably ignored the text in the parenthesis!!)
Wow! That last bit about using it with athletics is very interesting! Thanks for these videos, they are absolutely amazing.
You're very welcome!
If works one time, it'll work always
60% of the time, it works every time.
EDIT: Deleting my old comment bc I figured it out rewatching the vid again. prof bonus = prof rank boost + level (but not ability score). Thanks again for these great videos! Really helps new players like me find exactly what we need when trying to look for specific things in the game!
No worries! Glad you've got it figured out!
Thank you bunches for the clarification on this. I've been overlooking it, will no longer.
You're very welcome!
The Assurance Feat on Athletics, is probably the best Tactical Skill feat ANY fighting class should take.... though it's not really massively effective at low levels against enemies, unless they are both lower level and THEY are already disadvantaged by a lower AC.. i.e. Flat-footed etc. because Assurance normally isn't high enough to achieve the required DC. e.g. Level 1 = 10 +1 (level) +2 (Trained) = 13, good for routine athletics checks like swimming and climbing, not for combat. Thus it only really comes into it's own at level 3... 15, plus taking a skill increase in Athletics to Expert at 3rd can also make that a 17, which makes it VERY useful. Especially for pack tactics ;)
Another quick helpful video. Thank you.
You're welcome!
Might be worth taking for diplomacy for Glad Hand?
If your CHA mod is less then 5, then it might!
I hadn't realized it worked like that!
As an aside, I would really adore a feat that lets you Aid people that are using Assurance, perhaps requiring you have Assurance in that use but not having to take the feat per skill. Medicine is also a solid use for Assurance, especially given the fact that you can use it to get rid of conditions. If you're whole team gets hit with a condition that penalizes your checks, you *might* be able to use Assurance to get rid of it while suffering from it.
Thanks for the vid. I hadn't seen the Assurance to trip trick before!
Perfect, I was wondering about attack modifiers with Athletics!
This could really change the way someone plays. Crazy.
Great topic!
My first thought was that this would be really good with a skill that you're proficient in but have a really bad ability score for, before remembering that you don't have negative stats in pathfinder like you do in d&d, at least not as often
Good explanation!
Thanks!
Power Attack with Gill Hook and Assurance for Grab without -10 :)
Thank you, I'm done :D
here to please the algorithm gods
Praise be!!
At first i did believe that attributes are involved.
When you said no, i was flattered "why would anyone use that?!" I exclaimed.
And then was the real banger.
Thanks, mate, that was a rollercoaster of emotional hights.
I never thought about Assurance that way. Thanks a whole bunch!
Happy to help!
Monk flurry (attack twice), then assurance disarm, then assurance trip.
I think a lot of complaints about the feat come from people who read it and assume its just a feat version of the "Taking 10" rule from old. Which it isn't. Its very like it but its very different
Just double checking something. If you had a negative to the ability score, via an ancestry flaw or something, does assurance also stop that from impacting? Because if it does, that gives another reason to take assurance for skills that use your bad ability scores.
Ability scores do not apply to Assurance, so if you suffer a penalty to an ability score it will not also pull down the Assurance score.
@@HowItsPlayed Wow. Just wow...
Also means that any BONUS you have from ability score is not present either
One thing to keep in mind though, if you're assurance value is lower than the DC, it's 100% fail chance. So if the enemy has a 17 reflex save and your assurance athletics value is 16, it's always better to roll that even at -10 MAP
Oh damn, this seems so strong, but you also dont apply your attribute modifier to it right? So a level 3 barbarian will always have a 17 which beats most of the creatures that are lower than you, but the bare minority of creatures on level 3 got lower fortitude save than 18
If you can't beat DC with assurance you can just roll d20 ang get all your bonuses. Or, you know, give them some conditions with minus to DC.
Demoralize -> Strike -> Assurance Trip
Algorithm check-in - keep up the good work!
Thanks!
Can you make an video about the errata regarding combat maneuvers and weapons with the finesse trait? According to reddit, that errata opened a whole can of worms because definitions changed and some feats only apply when you "roll" a check.
Some people say, that after the errata feats that say "If you roll a check, treat the dice roll 1 better" don't work with assurance anymore.
Some say maneuvers are not attack rolls anymore and you can't use dex with combat maneuvers anymore if your weapon has the finesse trait.
Skill actions with the attack trait (Trip, Grapple, etc.) are skill checks, not attack rolls - this has always been the case, the errata just added an additional lines to clarify it.
Finesse weapons with the trip/grapple/etc. trait don't let you use dexterity for those checks, because finesse only applies to attack rolls.
The errata didn't change anything there - by RAW, that's always been how it worked. The language is just confusing because an "attack" and an "attack roll" are different things.
Hope that clears things up for you :) Obviously always feel free to play the rules however you group prefers to!
And I'm not sure what feats you're referring too that don't work with assurance anymore - is that from a different errata?
@@elliebbean The feats that say for example: "If you roll a success on a X save, you get a critical success instead."
Some say they don't work because you don't roll a success. You forgo that process.
Great video. Hey, can you make a video about the Reach trait of weapons, and monsters using reach? I've seen a few people think that reach follows the same rules as movement. Meaning that a reach weapon cannot reach an extra 5 ft into a diagonal square unless it has an additional 10 ft of reach, similar to how movement works with every other diagonal costing 10 ft of movement instead of 5 ft. But I know that reach doesn't work that way, and that reach weapons do allow attacks to reach an extra 5 ft diagonally.
Got you covered! th-cam.com/video/LH-TUsaOKYQ/w-d-xo.html
@@HowItsPlayed thank you! Love your videos.
Wait, it's a skill feat. **Cackles in Rogue**
Please talk about invisibility in combat! And if a player has scent
I always just glossed over Assurance. Thought it was ok, but now that I understand it better I'm gonna have to come up with some fun for that. I never realized you don't apply MAP.
@How It's Played... so, with this logic, if you use assurance to trip as your 1st action, and strike as a 2nd action, then that strike would include a multiple attack penalty? In other words, assurance still counts towards other actions, but itself is exempt.
That is the way that I would rule it.
I've always liked Assurance on Athletics.
As a GM, idk how I feel about this... I had a monk character with assurance (athletics) who was a nightmare in combat, tripping everything in sight all the time. The only thing that stopped him from doing it more than once per round was the MAP...
@@kschleic9053 but assurance negates MAP
@@kschleic9053 that's when you give your bad guys Kip Up. Lol
@@CErra310 I didn't know this at the time🤣
Scrounger archetype assurance craft bam craft anything out of anything at any time
Assurance? Who cares about that. I wanna know how INSURANCE works in Pathfinder 2e. Can I get general dungeon liability? Is there full coverage for dragon attacks? These are the questions people!
Sorry, Dragons are excluded unless you purchase the optional "Dragon Rider".
"Proficiency Bonus" is rank + level, right?
So if I were to choose Assurance: Medicine, from Level 3 onwards I could never fail a check for Treat Wounds again...
That is correct as long as you are just trying the dc 15 check.
My firend built a bard for my current campaign. He picked assurance with performance so that when he uses Facinating Performance which stuns enemies for a round he can use assurance if they're will DC is low enough to make sure he stuns them.
Is tripping a basic task? The feat says it's for basic tasks.... So I don't think you can use it unless your doing something like jumping. It seems like tripping would be a difficult or complex task.
That's pretty much just flavor text. There are no "basic" actions in Pathfinder. But, yes, Tripping can use Assurance. In fact, it was a developer who provided that example.
Quick question: for asdurance counts the attribute modiffier?
No, assurance does not include any modifiers other than Proficiency.
i don't think the numbers really add up, i can only see the odds being more in your favor by using assurance on a third attack action in combat, at which point the chance of it meeting the DC of equivalent level mobs is not great. cause for the most part most DC checks in combat are built around you rolling above 10 for a success. for example i have a level 8 char with a 14 skill, +4 of which is form a stat. i would need to roll a 6 for it to give the same result as assurance. and most of the time rolling a 6 will fail even with no other negatives. and honestly this only applied to the third attack action at all, unless your canceling out negatives assurance just is not worth using odds wise, and i hate using all 3 actions on attacks, some builds can get away with it but most of the time your third action is more useful doing other things
There are also other scenarios, like having a crappy ability mod. For example, a level 3 Thief Rogue with 10 STR, expert in athletics, would have a +7 to his roll to trip, which means that against a DC of 17 he would have a 40% chance of failing and 5% chance of critically failing. With Assurance, he would have 100% chance of a simple success, so there's definitely value there. Continuing with the level 3 example, at the point there are a lot of monsters with with a REF/FOR DC of 17 or lower, for example, Doppelganger, Giant Eagle and Dryad could ALWAYS get grappled with assurance and , be it first or third attack, and Wights, Ogre Warriors and Grizzly Bears can always be tripped, no matter if you're sickened 2 or attacking for the third time.
IMO this sits in a nice spot, it's not a spammable solution for every situation, but definitely a nice options to target weak saves, specially as a third action.
If you used Assurance to trip on your first action of a turn, would it increase your Multiple Attack Penalty?
I assume it would because the action of Tripping has the Attack trait. My understanding is that Trip is still the action you're taking, so the MAP increases for further actions
For whatever it's worth, I agree with this interpretation as well.
If my trip assurance is 17, does that mean a success is assured against a cave bear with a +11 reflex?
+11 Reflex Bonus would be a DC 21 Reflex Save DC. So, no, I do not believe so. There might also be a rule tucked away somewhere about four-legged creatures being more difficult to trip, but I may be confusing it with another edition.
does assurance work with the aid action/reaction?
hell yea oculus!
Vive, but close enough. :)
So that would bypass Armour Check Penalties?
It would!
Just love the idea of a character untrained in Full-plate but having assurance in Athletics then swimming with no penalty... but do I, do I really? Hmmm.... I sense DC escalation
OK. But the DC for trip will be Reflex save +10? Or Im wrong?
Yup. And 95% (not actual math, I did not check), even with max proficiency assurance will fall short vs an appropriate CR opponent.
I see a lot of people seem to have a "revelation" that now assurance is good since you don't apply MAP... but so what if you still don't succeed?
You are correct. Assurance to trip is best used on minions and weaker foes and not on the big Boss ;-)
The point of assurance is that it takes out randomness of EASY CHECKS. It in no way makes difficult or even on par checks easier, especially in a system where a +1 is the difference between a failiure and a crit failiure.
That is why there is a note in the video that says "If you can trip once, you will always trip." It leaves out the obvious counter to that. If you fail to trip, you will always fail to trip.
This makes the feat utterly useless at on-level and higher level challenge campaigns. Chat with your GM before taking the feat. If the likely hood of facing lower level challenges is very slim, you are better off with a different feat. If all you are doing is beating mooks, Assurance is a good way to make you look like an unstoppable action hero.
This effect is particularly evident at 1st level, where Assurance will always fail to beat any DC that is trained or above. It isn't until 3rd where you can finally beat a trained DC (DC 15) consistently. Once you get to expert DCs, (DC 20), it ceases to work. Around 4th level, you start to see the moving difficulty scale, and now things that kicked your ass only 2 levels ago, are being slaughtered - bare handed - by the mage. Assurance works wonders at this point as a low roll will still screw you over even against the mooks.
To sum up, Assurance is a feat that makes easy checks garunteed, but it is not the powerful tool from 1e, where you could simply take 10 with all bonuses and penalties applied (and 1e had ALOT of bonuses you could apply).
If your GM is constantly throwing solo level + 3 creatures at you, they are doing a disservice. The sweet spot of encounter balance is where the number of enemies equals the number of PCs. Which for moderate encounters is level - 2 creatures and severe is level - 1. Not saying you can't have an occasional boss or one with a few minions, but encounters with only equal or higher level creatures should not be the norm.
@@realdealsd Nope. Just following the module, word for word. Average enemy creature count was 2. Only time it was higher were the only points in which the creatures were party level -2.
Most of the time you were fighting creatures on your level or your level -1. At least 4 points in the module were "boss encounters" with one being in Part 1, one in Part 2, and two in Part 3.
And we leveled up fast only because we used a faster xp track (fewer xp needed to next level) for over half of it AND we started the module half-way to level 2 on a module designed for 1st level players. oh sorry. 5 boss fights. The first fight is a Severe encounter.
Do you think this was an "accident" in that they had not thought assurance through for that trip move? Its feels to be good to be true for a low level character to use up that 3rd attack slot with such a good athletics trip option.
I don't think it's an accident. Assurance results are always below average for the level meaning the average adversary will beat the result (actually about 75% of enemies at any given level will beat the check). It's mostly good in this context (tripping) to gaurentee the result against a lower level adversary. Or to be used where the DC is static like a Medicine check to Treat Wounds.
Can you do a rules reminder on refocus and lay on hands? Is it RAI to allow a champion to heal the entire party back to full health in one night? I know there is a time restraint but it seems to go against other healing rules.
I can't find the video clip of Jason Bulmahn telling a champion they can use Lay On Hands repeatedly by refocusing but I know it exists. Anyway, yes it is intended by the rules to be able to fully heal in-between fights via Lay On Hands and other Focus Spell that can provide healing. The Medicine skill can also gain this ability via the Continual Recovery skill feat (remember that the target's immunity time [usually 1 hour] OVERLAPS with the the you spend Treating Wounds [10 minutes]. Continual Recovery changes the immunity time to 10 minutes and it still overlaps with the Treat Wounds activity time - so a medicine expert can immediately treat wounds on the target again) and this can be even better than most focus spells if that feat is combined with the Ward Medic skill feat since you can treat 2, 4, or 8 targets in 10 minute intervals.
Yes! I remember that clip of Jason saying that too... and the GM of Echo Quest (RIP) also noted that Paizo confirmed to him that that was how it worked.
@@HowItsPlayed ok thank you just wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing something
Assurance is the best skill feat aside from battle medicine, prove me wrong.
Actually, the seemingly poor choice of skill feats is actually something my players don’t like about 2e
And if you have assurance in medicine - after 3rd level you can just say to low hp ally "I healed you"
That is a general feat, but yeah I feel like a lot of skill feats are really meh or just extremely situational
@@coolboy9979 All skill feats are general feats, but Assurance and Battle Medicine are both skill feats.
So numerically, if you're using that Trip you're talking about with this feat, at best it seems you'd likely only succeed on opponents about half your level or less. Right.... maybe?
Well, depending on their Reflex defense and your proficiency with Athletics, the difference can be a few points. Also, you may not be affected by penalties, but they are.
Ex. You have a level 20 wizard, who is (for some reason) a master in Athletics and has Assurance. That gives him a score of 38 (10 + level (20) + expert proficiency (8)). According to the Gamemastery Guide, they could trip a level 18 creature with low Reflex, a level 16 creature with moderate Reflex or a Lvl 14 creature with high Reflex. This is also affected by conditions like Fatigued and Clumsy.
@@armanhammer Gotcha....thnx! So, not BAD then.
I feel if a level 20 character is fighting 14-16 ones they'll have more effective things to do to them than a trip.
@@Unikatze That's fair, although this is more for focusing on weak point and finding a use for your 3rd action.
What movie is 4:20 from?
The brand new Mortal Kombat