Mark, I can't tell you how much I enjoy your thought process. Wood working is not for dopes. I'm not stopping the video for any reason, I'm along for the ride. What a smashing improvement. I've never thought about the extruded extension; though, truly, I have no need because of the way we have set up our "contractrors" saw. Keep calm and keep wood working.
With 30mm*X aluminum profiles you can slide a f clamp behind to clamp to the fence from the ends. You just need to file a little bit the f clamp to fit on the track.
These 2 videos are excellent examples of iterative development. It's never perfect, but it can be made better each time until it works as well as it needs to. 👍
That's a nice improvement. A few thoughts: 1) You can cut / drill / route aluminum with most wood working tools, so don't hesitate to modify the extrusion. 2) Dovetail and fence clamps are good options for attaching an auxilary fence (I can get a pair of decent fence clamps for $15 USD). Both replace the anvile arm a c-clamp. Dovetail clamps use a truncated triangle shape that works in dovetail slots or t-tracks, while fence clamps use a round rod so you can just slide them into a hole. 3) The extrusion is probably rigid enough to attach your auxilary fence at the front and back of the original fence, instead of the top. 4) Though it wouldn't work with your vertical hold downs, it's common to make an aux fence as a box that just slips over the existing fence, and doesn't need a clamp.
#4 - Been there, done that. Unless it is a really tight press fit, the whole thing will tilt once you apply pressure to the infeed attachment. I don't trust mine enough, so I will be modifying it.
@@HepauDK Yeah, you'd have to do something to oppose any sort of lifting forces. I wouldn't want to apply significant lifting forces on my factory fence anyway. Regardless, to clamp a sleeve fence down, I'd lean toward something like 1/2" / 12mm thumb screws and t-nuts with a metal plate to spread the force so it doesn't dig into my fence (like a flat washer)
@@ardemus I plan to use some swivel foot levelers I have laying around. They are M10 and have 40mm "feet" that can easily be countersunk into a board for load spreading and secured from the back with slotted washers. I have successfully used this method on an auxiliary fence for my router attachment on the table I made for my DeWalt DW745. On that fence, I used Bessey TR6 clamps. Those will not work on this fence though. They are also a bit too flimsy for this application.
Nice one, Mark. I too look forward to the improvement suggestions in the comments because I’ve realised that when it comes to any form of engineering I’m a copier, not a creator. The improved fence looks the business. Thanks as always for the time you put into these videos.
Thank you Roger. To be honest I am loving the comments so far. Some brilliant ideas. I was not considering a mk 5 version but we all know I wont be able to resist.
Love this! Looks like something I would have Frankensteined. Smart idea to make a follow-up video based on comments from an earlier video… I’ve done that a couple of times too. I think the viewers really appreciate it!
Yours we a spectacular second video imo bud. Way beyond my cobbled approach. But I do appreciate the praise from you thank you. Looking forward to your latest video. It's been way too long.
Great video and very informational as usual. Also, again, over-engineered as usual. For fixing the aluminum extrusion on the fence, why not use fence clamps. Milescraft 7209 4 pack is around $20, or 4009 2 pack for $14. Looks like Powertec and O'Skool also have variations of the same in 2 packs for $14. If you're lucky and your table saw fence allows it, you can slide the face clamps in the back tracks and clamp from the side. Worst case scenario, drill a couple of holes on top of the extrusion near the ends and voila! There are also track clamps. Milescraft track crafts have a tongue width of 11.5 mm. So by selecting the right type of extrusion, they will work too, though a bit more expensive ($18/pair). One might even be able to use a toggle clamp with some creativity. Put some scrap wood behind the saw fence, about same height as the fence (probably a bit shorter, depending on the toggle clamp chosen), mount the toggle clamp to the wood and then activate the clamp to the top of the extrusion. Haven't figured out how to fix the wood to the fence but I believe in your creativity to sort that out!
@@startmaking1 like someone else mentioned below, you can never have enough mark's. By the way, you promised a number of folks a mark 5. How many mark 5's do you plan to pursue. I think a new video trying all the ideas from folks into a mark 5a, 5b, 5c, ...etc is in order. Looking forward to my next video installment.
Nice job. Helpful tips. Of course many people will know the following, but it's worth saying a couple of things explicitly. 1. There's some risk of damaging the original fence. If you bump a long fence near the ends, you put tremendous twisting force on the short factory fence. Not a huge problem, but it's worth some extra caution when a long fence is attached. 2. A long fence will not straighten a bowed board. Not unless the fence is twice as long as the board you're rip cutting. One way around that is to establish a straight edge with a track saw. Another is to use a ripped piece of plywood as a sled. Keep the factory edge against the fence during the cut and you're good to go.
I would have just drilled 2 or 3 holes in the fence. Then use the T-slot bolts to attach it through the OEM fence. But that’s just me. I would also sleeve the holes in the fence to keep it from collapsing or bowing.
Great video, Mark. I really like your sharing your thought processes as well as the solution, because one must actually do that kind of problem solving for a lot of situations - in woodworking and in the rest of life. Good show, man!
My dude... you are a great content creator. You shouldn't assume people will come up with a better idea. Never second guess what you make my friend. You know what your talking about a lot more than most who watch your content. Including me. People can come up with different ideas or improvements, sure! but never doubt your own work. You have a glowing endorsement from at least one subscriber today.
I like the extrusion. We use it at work. Very versatile stuff. Suggestion: use bolts off the back of the extrusion to clamp across the back of existing fence. Does away with the obstructions on top. ✌️👍
Well done. I have used the 30x.... extrusions for my mitre saw and also for my drill press. you will be amazed at the possibilities now for their use in these circumstances. I have also got the JessEm Clear-Cut Stock Guides for Router Tables and surprise I can use them on the mitre saw/ router table, drill press and the table saw. In each case they work brilliantly. The table saw users may say that they are not out wide enough but 90% of any feather-boards are located directly on the fence and are very close anyway. This gives me safety and excellent value for money with the Jessem product. 😊
While I did miss your previous fence builds, I did make a variation of this one quite a while back. I have a Metabo (USA sold) which has a VERY similar fence with the rack & pinion design. Using a caliper, I measured the inside dimensions of the larger piece of the fence, and ran a piece of 1 inch (apx 25mm) thick MDF through my planer to get it to the proper thickness to be able to fit inside of the fence. After doing that, I drilled 4 holes aligned with a piece of extruded aluminum, and used captive nuts, and the same star nuts you used, to secure the new fence to the existing fence. I will be adding the upgrades you used in this video, to my fence, I really like them.
Thanks for working through your design process out loud. I really appreciate that style. I have a few things to add to the conversation here. The longer the fense, the more leverage it will exert on the hold down mechanics of the base fense. To refute or prove this on your machine, repete the same test while adding forces to the lead in side of your new fense and observe if your dial indicator moves, then make a judgement call as to if that is ok. Having the fense support your lead in side of the material being cut will also play into lifting the fense. I'm guessing the outfeed side of the fense is "clamped" to the track, thus not allowing it to lift up away from the saw surface. Many saws out there do not have this feature. Personally, i would not want to learn that halfway through a rip. I work alone much of the time in my shop, and when i need help, i get it, or find a better way to deal with the aquard cuts (think track saw or a simple wood fense and circ-saw). A few of your commenters proposed drilling through the fense and use your t-nut connections to secure the excrution to the fense. I agree with them on that concept (less things to fail). As an added bonus, you could also attach the excrusion laying flat on your saw to have less verticle face to deal with when cutting closer to the blade. My comments come from a good place to add to your ongoing conversation, no disrespect or ill will intended. Thanks for getting me thinking about how i would look at this puzzle.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Very useful knowledge. And I would never read something this helpful and think anything other than, thank you. Great shout about lying the extrusion on its side too.
Another less over engineered solution: secure a piece of 3/4” (18-19mm) MDF on the backside of the extrusion with countersunk screws and specialty track nuts that you have. Drill 2 vertical holes in the mdf and use two universal fence clamps (~$15-20) to secure it to the factory fence. This way you leave top side of the track on extrusion unobstructed for any special accessories that you want to mount there.
Track clamps is the way forward. Or make similar from the rear of the extrusion to the side / rear of the original fence with those Hold down clamps you have. Great video as always
Excellent video! My daughter expressed an interest in learning woodworking so I started looking into making safety improvements. In my search I ran into the BOW line of woodworking products. However, their longest fence was not long enough to attach their infeed and outfeed supports at each end of my biesemeyer fence. I did find a 30 x 150 x 1500mm extruded aluminum t-slot rail on amazon for under $100 US. And I also purchased a pair of POWERTEC 71409 Quick Screw Guide Rail Clamps amazon also. The clamps slide in the rear t-slot at each end of the rail and clamp to my fence. I am able to reposition my fence without having to loosen the rail clamp. I was worried about the fence bowing due to the clamping pressure at both ends of the fence. But my measurements found no bowing. I purchased a couple of BOW feather boards for the fence and one for the table saw. Unfortunately, the BOW infeed/outfeed extensions will not fit on my fence, so I will have to make those.
Nice idea but as I have the same table saw, my thoughts are just drill through the existing fence in 2 places and secure with through bolt and star knob. I feed support with a strip of flat bar aluminium secure on the underside profile with a single bolt fixing so it can be rotated out of the way when not needed. When the extended fence is removed, the 2 drilled holes in the existing fence will have no detrimental effect.
I just dont know if I want to drill right through the fence. Though I can see how it is the easiest way. I better take another look. Thank you for sharing your experience.
@@startmaking1What do you think is going to happen as a result of two small holes in the fence? I did it to mine over 15 years ago and the two little holes have never caused me a problem, with or without the extension installed. The factory fence is just a simple aluminum extrusion. You just take simple measures not to allow the screws to crush and distort the fence.
I like this a lot. For the clamping, If you don't want to change anything, I'd suggest taking the two pieces of wood you made and attach them to the back side of the extrusion where they hang past the table saw fence. Then clamp them to each end of the fence (vs clamping them from the top). My guess (not having built this) is that your clamps might be pulling the extrusion out of plumb. Pulling them against the fence lower down would alleviate that. You could also try making a couple of pieces of wood in a sort of C shape, where each leg attaches to the aluminum. Then you'd have a couple of shapes at each end that look like the holes in your previous attempt for the f-style clamps to attach to. Keep coming up with great ideas!
Good afternoon Mark. I don’t have any handy hints for you except to keep up the good work. And Izzy Swan comes up with some interesting solutions to problems we never thought we had 🌞
I feel like a lot of the issues you encountered could be resolved by just using a 20 x 100 extrusion. Yes, it would likely be more expensive, but you'd get that 20mm above the factory fence that you could then use with clamps that you either make or source, to hold on to the factory fence. The rollers could then (likely) be installed on the top of the extrusion using the slots that are already there. You might have to swap some mounting hardware around to get it all to be totally compatible. All that said, I sprung for the Bow a while ago. It stung, but I use it every time I use my fence, and it was an absolute game changer. Love seeing these DIY solutions!
Two of the MicroJig ratcheting clamps slid into the back of the extrusion will secure it to the fence supper tight, and will come off really easily when needed. That will also leave the top completely open so you can attach anything you want to it.
A very well done video that has has given me the epiphany that I lack the patience, discipline, initiative, and skill to do any of the things you've so cleverly worked out. That's actually a good thing. As Dirty Harry Callahan remarked at the end of Magnum Force, a man's got to know his limitations. Thanks for helping me know mine. I'll by the expensive one.
I have to say great video and ill be using this for my table saw. Now for me i have an older craftsman table saw which has through holes in the stock fence so attacking this for me is as simple as running a few of the extrusion bolts through the back and slapping on some star knobs. So win for having an older craftsman table saw compared to new ones.
I use the 20 x 80 extrusion for a lot of router jigs. With a piece of clear acrylic sheet overhanging the bottom, it's a great straight edge for a guide bushing to ride against.
I have no space in my current house for a table saw. So I am mostly exploring track saw workflows. already got my track saw. This has been a very effective demonstration of the long tail of issues that can be totally sidestepped by the use of a track saw!! Hopefully I will be able to figure out enough solutions for a track saw system that i'll never need to get a table saw, even once I have the space for one. I would like to get a band saw first.
They make "fence clamps" that have a rod with a 90 degree bend intended for inserting into a drilled hole in a wood extension fence for one end. Looks like one can get a pair for USD 10-20 if you don't already have one. Drill a couple holes of the right size vertically through the extrusion for attachment points and you'll get your clamping pressure down at the midpoint so it's not twisting the fence out of plumb without the clamp showing on the face. You can reuse them to attach a sacrificial fence when making rabbets and other cuts where the blade needs to be close enough the fence there's risk of damaging the fence.
@startmaking1 I tried every kind of clamp out there for about a year trying to avoid drilling holes through the original fence.....wish I had done it day one. Forget all the "half assed" clamping gimmicks and just drill the holes, you'll be glad you did....
Love your videos. I believe you may suffer from the same issue I have, namely in the process of trying to solve a problem I end up going down a very long deep rabbit hole. It seems to me that a possible solution to this problem may be to simply use a sacrificial fence using fence clamps. You just drill holes on the top of the material you’re using for the fence. These clamps have a dowel-like rod that slides down into the hole and clamps from the back. Google table saw fence clamps.
You are spot on Peter. I actually kind of enjoy the rabbit hole. I like the idea of fence clamps but I didnt like using them with extrusion and ply was a pain to get both dead straight and light as the previous video to this showed. But I do have a plan I think.
It would definitely work for that. I imagine one long piece across the back with a hole cut out for dust collection. With 2 smaller pieces on the front of that so you can close the gap up around the router . Though that is a lot. Im sure there are better idea.s
Regarding fixing it to the fence, so you get rid of the two nubs sticking up, you could use dado clamps (or if not, some clamp that fits in the extrusion's slots) at the beginning and end of the fence, just like you do with the spirit level at 3:47. The Milescraft 4021 clamps or something similar might work.
Big improvement for not too much more money! Seems like you could use the same hold down clamps to hold the extension to the original fence if you utilized the slots in the extrusion and clamped to the original fence from the front and rear instead of over the top. This should eliminate the need for the riser blocks and give you a cleaner look as well as making the top surface more open for attachments.
Cut some U-channel with roughly the right interior dimension, add spacers/shims if needed, boom, easy clamp that may not even require fastening. It'll slot into the 80/20 channel and over the existing fence. Make some cutouts in the plywood top piece for access, or if the fit is good enough, use the plywood to secure the U-channel pieces. This also gives you convenient hooks for wall storage
Hey bud. Thank you. I did this one before I say your 3D printer in action (loved that last video especially getting your family involved in the fun). That 3D printer combined with this would have been excellent. may just have to go down the 3D printer rabbit hole. If I ever get offered one. Take it easy bud.
Let me start by saying that I'm not sure if this is better or just different, but I think it would be an easy experiment. Widen the top strip of wood slightly and angle the cut on the back side by 10 degrees. Add a strip of wood to the back side of the top strip that hooks down over the fence, creating a slightly acute angle, and reaches almost all the way down the back side of the fence. Slot the top holes perpendicular to the fence to allow you to pinch the fence between the back strip of wood and the aluminum and tighten the star nuts. The angle of the back piece should keep the pressure low enough to maintain the perfect 90 degrees to the table and eliminate the two towers up top. I just hope I am describing what is in my head well enough to be understood. I have an old Dewalt saw as well and I love this idea for for a fence extension.
Your clamp issue with the aluminum fence actually has a simple solution. They make fence clamps where you drill a hole into your sacrificial/extension fence, the stud of the clamp goes inside and the clamp screws close to clamp against the table saw fence. These type clamps then won't get in the way. Additionally, most aren't very expensive as clamps go.
Thanks Mark. Some great thinking. I don't understand the difficulty of a feed-in support being attached to the fence. I have a caterpillar frame with a plywood top on wheels set to the height of all my saw/router tables. I can then push the feed-in table to wherever I need it. I can also use it to cut down 2400x1200 sheets, within the limit allowed by fence.i.e about 800mm
My wife calls my workshop a "garage" and insists tha the car is given precedence during storms or hot days. I therfore have to pack everything up and to this end I remove the plywood and fold up the caterpillar legs - until I can reinstate my workshop. I understand that won't be suitable for all wood warriors.
I have been experimenting with the same aluminum fence. I was going to use a smaller piece of aluminum for the front and backboard stabilizers. I would also drill holes in the original fence to attach the new fence. It will be way more stable this way. I love my Bow featherboards, too. They can be mounted without the miter bar. I use t track bolts
You are right. I was really trying not to drill the original fence, for reasons I dont fully know, but eventually after mk 5, 6 and 7 I may just have to.
Quick query...if extrusion/tracking has built in t-slots then guide rail clamps could be used on the back of the extrusion to secure it to existing fence? Would alleviate any interference at the front face? By the by, I had to use alternative fence as a dangerous kick back damaged my original Dewalt fence 2 weeks after getting your same jobsite saw. Sometimes I laugh, sometimes I jaw drop at my own stupidity for not thinking of your simple solutions. Keep it up fella. Good mental health to you.
There are clamps similar to f clamps that hold diwn tracksaw tracks. Not sure what size they are, but maybe that could be used to hold it to the fence.
I used a length of good quality box tubing as the basic fence extension. I used the blue tape & CA glue trick to fix it to the saw's fence. I am now in the market for an improvement.
When you get ready to remove the box tubing put some fingernail polish remover (paint thinner) at the junction. It will soften the CA glue and/or the adhesive on the blue tape.
@mikebeck7263 Thanks - though fingernail polish remover is acetone, not paint thinner. I have already upgraded using aluminium box tubing. Greater length and same profile as the original fence. Now attached with double-sided tape.
Track clamps, e.g., the Bow XT2, or equivalent. On the rear/outfeed side, you could probably slide a clamp into the back-facing (fence-side) slot on the extrusion, and then clamp against your existing fence. On the front/infeed side, you might have some interference with the fence mechanism. Options include drilling vertical holes through the extrusion (large enough for the clamp), or perhaps attaching some extra bits of extrusion (rotated 90° to the main extrusion) to give you something for the track clamps to fit into.
Great idea, Mark! Re your question at the end: maybe you could make the top wooden runner thicker and route the T-track for the clamps horizontally in this runner? That would avoid the vertical extensions. Not sure if the pressure would be distributed the way you want, though...
LOVE this idea. New subscriber here. I have JessEm guides that I didn’t want to attach permanently to the fence on my SawStop. Yours is a perfect solution!
Just drill 3 holes in the original fence and fix the extrusion with t-nuts. Easy to do, easy to remove and you can slide the fence for more support to the front or rear. Did it that way, works like a charm for years.
That is the obvious way to do it. But for some bizarre reason he seems to think those tiny screw size holes will cause something bad to happen I guess. I did it about 15 years ago on a DeWalt job site saw and it's never been a problem.
I made a fence that slotted over the front and back of the table saw fence and braced the table saw fence across the ends … this allows me to lift the home made fence on and off as required
I just drilled a couple of holes and screwed my extension board on. A couple of holes through the fence on my job site saw doesn't bother me at all. When I remove the extension the fence still works perfectly fine with a couple of small holes in it. That just seems like a whole lot of trouble to avoid drilling two small holes through the fence on a job site saw.
I have a couple of clamps that a designed to clamp a sacrificial board to my fence. They fit into 3/8" holes in the board. You could do the same with your aluminum fence. I got mine from Rockler, but I'm sure other sources are available.
A suggestion would be to add another piece of timber to the top piece of timber making a C shape covering the existing fence Put a couple of threaded inserts into it and use the star knobs to tighten Hope that makes sense
Good project - and a t-track / dovetail clamp on the back will be great for mk5! I wonder how many people like me just ordered the exact same extrusion from oozenest??
Hi Alan. I hope they have enough. No, I doubt from the comments it is all that many people. There seem to be a fair few who have done it already. To be honest, the extrusion, indeed support and just 2 clamps without all my overengineering is just fine and really easy.
Thank you Jim. It isnt perfect but it works. The saw though, man it is loud. I have no other experience but as much as I love it, I would spend twice as much if I cold get one half as loud lol.
You’re welcome, I know that you mean ya it’s loud and I’m in the same boat I don’t have any other experience with any other table saw except I had a very small Ryobi table saw and it was very loud also. I would pay the same for a saw that was quieter. But I do love my DeWalt one much better then the Ryobi one
i have some some of the wide aluminum profile that i picked up for "other " projects but never made so i may use it for something like yours , i use a electric standing / height desk for an outfeed table and around the shop table too
@@startmaking1 some of them you could cut the cross connecting bars and drive shaft down and the top to fit maybe???!!!!! :) i use mine as an assembly table a lot and just tear stuff down too
Hi Mark, to me this works and does the job, it doesn't matter how big or bulky it's better than not having one and I think you done a good job, look at it as an improvement and a good accessory. For the price of the parts which is not bad and all it cost you is the time to make it, any accessory that is made is an improvement to the workshop and this is one of them. As always a great video, catch you soon Take care
Thank you Shaun. And as an added bonus, I love tinkering with this kind of thing. So much fun. I may just get back to woodworking soon lol. Take care bud.
Will do this style, and I'm lucky my fence came with 3 holes already that I can use to attach it. I hate my fence, it sits more than 1/8" from the table, so I can't use the guide to cut 1/8" plywood without attaching a board. Thanks for the useful tips.
A piece of wood, a little longer than the built in fence, behind the fence, and 2 long screws into the extrusion, on both sides, clamping it in place, with star nuts simple and sturdy, and much cheaper than your solution
Drill through your stock fence. Run bolts into square nuts in the T slots in the back of your sub fence. If you drill some holes in the top edge of the extrusion you could use L bolt sub fence clamps near the ends of your stock fence. Mines just a long pine 2x but I’ve already had to re joint and thickness plane it true again. Someone working for me had that Dewalt saw with a dent in the fence face. We just screwed through the fence into a longer taller trued wood 2x sub fence. Any subfence gives up rip capacity.
Beautifully done! I wish you went through this process about a month ago though, I just went through a similar process of trial and error trying to build out my own extension fence for my table saw, utilizing jussum rollers. I built mine with 20/20 extrusion. I stacked them all up, put a small shim underneath them, then made metal brackets to tighten everything together. I ended up cutting holes, and bolting the whole fixture directly to the fence, because I couldn't figure out any kind of solution that would fit in my workspace. I definitely did bump into a few of the f-style clamps and decided to just bolt them to the fence, so I didn't end up hurting myself 😂 I also made the bracket for the rollers, and the infeed support out of small cut-offs of the extrusion
I appreciate the work end effort that went into it. But for me, I just use a sawhorse that matches the height of the table saw if I'm cutting larger boards. Though I will likely pick up an extrusion, I have been using a level.
They make plastic end caps for those. Also the thicker ones with a bigger cavity are good for a router fence because if you cut through the face half way of it you can add a vacuume to the end to pull the cuttings away from the head
you could make a more cleaner fence if you play around with aluminum profile accessories like different Corner Angle Fitting, T Slot L-Shape Aluminum Profile Interior Corner Connector Joint, Aluminum L Connector etc... and remove all those woods in your fence. This way it looks much cleaner.
I LOVE THIS ! ! ! I have burned many brain-cells trying to come up with a viable solution . . . to no avail. I even like the clamp towers, I would just make them able to accept additional accessories. Although I'm wondering if a slightly taller fence could make them unnecessary ? ? ? Things that make you go hmmm . . .
Try a track saw clamp, mine fit in my extrusion on my "mill table" that I attached to my drill press. they are cheap, they come in pairs, and you can just slot them into the t track to clamp to the original fence.
I was today years old when i realized the Dewalt and Skill jobsite saws were not identical. I was going to suggest using additional T-Bolts in the top of the fence, but, after watching the video a second time, I realized the Dewalt saw does not have a T-Track on top of the fence (whereas the Skill does).
Hi Mark, I'm a bit late to there comment okay this week but you did make me laugh with the paraphrased "you know me, i over engineered it". Looks like i need to buy some extrusion now...
I think from reading the comments that if you can find some that match with either the match fit system of track clamps then it will be the most useful. But over engineering it is the most fun. lol.
Drill holes through the factory fence. Make the hole on the back side big enough to fit a socket. Then attach your extrusion using the nuts and bolts as you've done with your other accessories.
Hi Mark, thanks for another great video, I'm loving that aluminium extrusion, can't help thinking there must be some other uses for that around the workshop, will it take rail saw clamps I wonder? Thanks again buddy, and as always....stay lucky!
I would use a bit of angle iron or ally and use the T nuts and a through hole on the hoz surface leaving a gap between the vertical portion and the existing fence, and just drill/tap the holes on the vertical bolt though,add a 3d printed face to not mark the existing fence, and 3d print and handle if you like and tension up.
Woe - this design just ignites the possibilities! ! :) Why didn't you make that top board an L, with the L projecting down at least 1/2 height of OEM fence. Then, you just slip onto the OEM fence - no extra clamps needed.
The distance from the slot to the fence extension went up fairly consistently from one end to the other, suggesting that it's not so much that the extrusion isn't straight as it isn't parallel to the slot. 0.1 mm isn't much, but you could probably eliminate most of it with your fence's parallelism adjustment.
You can find some bolts with heads that will fit in the extrusion track; at that point, you can bolt your towers to the back of the extrusion, one at either end of your fence. Take a look at how machinists fixture; typically, you have a flat piece with a bolt through the middle, and a bolt at one end as a 'jack', with the other end used to hold down the material.
Really great ideas and helpful information. I especially like and respect the fact you always include your "Oh Crap" moments. Like leaving out the sliders in the top rail. I have BTDT many times. Well, OK, almost Every time I touch something. The one time I will Never forget I was rebuilding an automatic transmission. I, Twice, left something amiss (you guessed it) right in the middle. Which, of course, means I had to open it up three times. Also, keep in mind, I had to put it back in the car, to find something is wrong. And, of course, I didn't have lift, so I was working on the garage floor, with the front jacked up (well supported) and lifting the transmission on and off my chest. Yeah, that was a "Fun" day! 🤪🤪🤪 😁✌🖖
Hey bud. Love the story as always. Thank you. So many oh crap moments in every build I do. Though I tend to laugh now rather than. berate myself. Just picturing your fun day feels familiar lol.
Simply, use the slots on the backside of the fence with your t-track clamps. One on the front and one on the back. That puts the pressure inline with the fence instead of skewing it from the top.
@@startmaking1 The current solution has wood bolted to extrusion thats has t-track screwed to it. Just bolt that short section of t-track to the extrusion using the extrusions t-nuts.
Could you clamp from the ends rather than from above? Festool rail clamps might slide inside the tracks on the back of the extrusion and clamp onto the back of the fence.
You could drill through the original fence to grab the new one or you could simply glue the original fence to the new one with something like Soudal T-Rex. Maybe even a strong double sided tape might be enough, with such a big area of contact double sided tape is really strong. You could also extend the new fence on the top like you did with the strip of plywood, only a bit wider so it hangs over the back side of the original fence and then come down on the back with another board, making the cross section of the new fence an inverted U that wraps around the original fence. That inverted U could be wide enough to leave a bit of space between the two fences and then you can drill through the back plate and screw bolts with "feet" on the inside of the U that, when screwed in, push against the back of the original fence. Basically you make the new fence into a long G-clamp in cross section with as many points of pressure as you want.
Great improvement, Mark. I love following the process. The number of things I've created before redesigning and rebuilding... as for the clamping solution, could you use C clamps that run along the aluminium extrusion, or maybe a threaded rod secured by the flat extrusion nuts and then a small clamping bar (100 x 15mm) with a hole in one end? Bar fits over threaded rod and gets tightened with nut or knurled knob. Just had another thought... imagine how much you could make designing knurled knobs on a 3D printer 😜
hi Iain. Hope you are well. Great idea for the clamping. I have a few older clamps that I could rejig. Please dont mention 3D printing. I am getting dangerously tempted after seeing everyone using one. IT would suit me perfectly if I could ever learn how to use it.
@startmaking1 exactly the same here. Bambu P1S keeps appearing on my 'to review list'. The Swedish Maker and Wittworks have highly recommended. Hopefully, Bambu reach out to you, as I feel it would benefit the viewer from watching someone starting out on their 3D journey. Just imagine the French cleat prints. Mark, its paid for itself already 🙃
@iainrutherford184 you are so right bud. Especially someone as inept as me. To be honest with the laser I turned down so many just waiting for xTool to offer. Same with the printer now, Bambu or nobody. We watch the same channels. Love what Swedish maker is doing . So much passion, love the little cheers when it goes right.
my idea is to use a piece of plywood that is slightly longer than the fence and us long bolt to screw into the extension from the back, so no clamp needed and making kind of like a parallel clamp.
Instead of building your clamp towers to go over the OEM fence, place them beyond the ends of the fence but within the height of the OEM fence, far end and near end. That leaves the entire top of the extrusion for whatever you desire.
Remove the track towers you made and install the red clamps to the existing t track fence you have. Try installing the clamps where the ends of your fence meet the face of the aluminum extrusion so the clamps will be positioned horizontal instead of vertical.
I feel like there were some missed opportunities with the aluminum extrusions. 1. You showed 80x20 and 30x120, but your supplier sells a goldilocks size at 30x90. Less height, less weight, and slightly cheaper than the 30x120. 2. The 30 Series extrusions have t-slots, as in t-track slots. You should be able to slide any t-track type fixtures into the slots on the 30 series extrusions. 3. The Bow featherboard, remove the knobs completely, pull out the 5/16 t-bolts from that miter track bar thing and confirm that the square head slides into the track on the 30 series extrusion. That should save you adding plywood to the face when you want to attach feather board. 4. Drill 2 or 3 holes into 1 face of the factory saw fence at the correct height to line up with a channel in the 30 series extrusion. You don’t need to drill any holes in the extrusion itself. You can get a more snug fitting t-nut that takes an M8 bolt. Then you just need to determine the length to go through the saw fence and catch in the t-nut that will be captured in the extrusion slot. This allows you to slide the extrusion forward or back by simply loosening those M8 bolts and there are no holes in your extrusion, no plywood on top of your extrusion sticking up like crazy. Deez Nutz 😂, sorry, couldn’t resist… ooznest.co.uk/product/m8-30-series-slide-nut-t-slot-zinc-plated/
It's a great thought but I have now tried 3 brands. The trend ones fit the larger extrusion I would but it is quite heavy. I may look for one more solution.
@@startmaking1 Looking forward to seeing that. Very clever idea using extrusion. If I had a table saw I would want to make one, but it's a bit excessive for a hand saw! LOL.
Excellent presentation: Audio=10; Lighting=10; Scripting=10; Pacing=10; Clarity=10; Demonstrations & Visual Examples=10; Focus=10; Angles=10. Well done sir!
That is really kind bud. If a little generous. But I will take it. Thank you.
Fair enough.
Mark, I can't tell you how much I enjoy your thought process. Wood working is not for dopes. I'm not stopping the video for any reason, I'm along for the ride. What a smashing improvement. I've never thought about the extruded extension; though, truly, I have no need because of the way we have set up our "contractrors" saw. Keep calm and keep wood working.
We may never meet in person bud but you make a difference every second Saturday and I appreciate it. Good man.
With 30mm*X aluminum profiles you can slide a f clamp behind to clamp to the fence from the ends. You just need to file a little bit the f clamp to fit on the track.
Thank you. I better start planning my mk5 fence.
Yes! Or even make use of that red hold-down clamp from the video, where you suggest the clamps.
These 2 videos are excellent examples of iterative development. It's never perfect, but it can be made better each time until it works as well as it needs to. 👍
Thank you very much.
That's a nice improvement. A few thoughts:
1) You can cut / drill / route aluminum with most wood working tools, so don't hesitate to modify the extrusion.
2) Dovetail and fence clamps are good options for attaching an auxilary fence (I can get a pair of decent fence clamps for $15 USD). Both replace the anvile arm a c-clamp. Dovetail clamps use a truncated triangle shape that works in dovetail slots or t-tracks, while fence clamps use a round rod so you can just slide them into a hole.
3) The extrusion is probably rigid enough to attach your auxilary fence at the front and back of the original fence, instead of the top.
4) Though it wouldn't work with your vertical hold downs, it's common to make an aux fence as a box that just slips over the existing fence, and doesn't need a clamp.
#4 - Been there, done that. Unless it is a really tight press fit, the whole thing will tilt once you apply pressure to the infeed attachment. I don't trust mine enough, so I will be modifying it.
@@HepauDK Yeah, you'd have to do something to oppose any sort of lifting forces. I wouldn't want to apply significant lifting forces on my factory fence anyway.
Regardless, to clamp a sleeve fence down, I'd lean toward something like 1/2" / 12mm thumb screws and t-nuts with a metal plate to spread the force so it doesn't dig into my fence (like a flat washer)
@@ardemus I plan to use some swivel foot levelers I have laying around. They are M10 and have 40mm "feet" that can easily be countersunk into a board for load spreading and secured from the back with slotted washers. I have successfully used this method on an auxiliary fence for my router attachment on the table I made for my DeWalt DW745. On that fence, I used Bessey TR6 clamps. Those will not work on this fence though. They are also a bit too flimsy for this application.
Great idea exchange going on here guys. Thank you for the original comment and the replies. So much useful food for thought.
I’ve been a uk carpenter for 35 years. I really like you and your channel buddy. Keep up the good work 👍
Thats really kind bud. Thank you.
It’s about time I bought you a coffee for all your hard work. I want the Biscoff though!
Ah Roger. Thats more than generous. Thank you very much. Biscoff is all yours bud.
Nice one, Mark. I too look forward to the improvement suggestions in the comments because I’ve realised that when it comes to any form of engineering I’m a copier, not a creator.
The improved fence looks the business. Thanks as always for the time you put into these videos.
Thank you Roger. To be honest I am loving the comments so far. Some brilliant ideas. I was not considering a mk 5 version but we all know I wont be able to resist.
Love this! Looks like something I would have Frankensteined. Smart idea to make a follow-up video based on comments from an earlier video… I’ve done that a couple of times too. I think the viewers really appreciate it!
Yours we a spectacular second video imo bud. Way beyond my cobbled approach. But I do appreciate the praise from you thank you. Looking forward to your latest video. It's been way too long.
@@startmaking1 new one coming in 5 hours!
@BustedKnuckleWoodworks brilliant. Well done bud. Can't wait.
Great video and very informational as usual. Also, again, over-engineered as usual. For fixing the aluminum extrusion on the fence, why not use fence clamps. Milescraft 7209 4 pack is around $20, or 4009 2 pack for $14. Looks like Powertec and O'Skool also have variations of the same in 2 packs for $14. If you're lucky and your table saw fence allows it, you can slide the face clamps in the back tracks and clamp from the side. Worst case scenario, drill a couple of holes on top of the extrusion near the ends and voila! There are also track clamps. Milescraft track crafts have a tongue width of 11.5 mm. So by selecting the right type of extrusion, they will work too, though a bit more expensive ($18/pair).
One might even be able to use a toggle clamp with some creativity. Put some scrap wood behind the saw fence, about same height as the fence (probably a bit shorter, depending on the toggle clamp chosen), mount the toggle clamp to the wood and then activate the clamp to the top of the extrusion. Haven't figured out how to fix the wood to the fence but I believe in your creativity to sort that out!
I think that this will. be the mk 5 version.
@@startmaking1 like someone else mentioned below, you can never have enough mark's. By the way, you promised a number of folks a mark 5. How many mark 5's do you plan to pursue. I think a new video trying all the ideas from folks into a mark 5a, 5b, 5c, ...etc is in order. Looking forward to my next video installment.
Nice job. Helpful tips. Of course many people will know the following, but it's worth saying a couple of things explicitly.
1. There's some risk of damaging the original fence. If you bump a long fence near the ends, you put tremendous twisting force on the short factory fence. Not a huge problem, but it's worth some extra caution when a long fence is attached.
2. A long fence will not straighten a bowed board. Not unless the fence is twice as long as the board you're rip cutting. One way around that is to establish a straight edge with a track saw. Another is to use a ripped piece of plywood as a sled. Keep the factory edge against the fence during the cut and you're good to go.
Very good advice Thank you for sharing.
I would have just drilled 2 or 3 holes in the fence. Then use the T-slot bolts to attach it through the OEM fence. But that’s just me. I would also sleeve the holes in the fence to keep it from collapsing or bowing.
I just dont know if I want to drill right through the fence. I better take another look. Sleeving them sounds like a very good idea.
I bent my fence trying to bolt an aux. fence to the bolt holes that my fence CAME with, so I don't trust drilling my own holes ever.
Great video, Mark. I really like your sharing your thought processes as well as the solution, because one must actually do that kind of problem solving for a lot of situations - in woodworking and in the rest of life. Good show, man!
Lovely. Thank you .I could not agree more.
My dude... you are a great content creator. You shouldn't assume people will come up with a better idea. Never second guess what you make my friend. You know what your talking about a lot more than most who watch your content. Including me. People can come up with different ideas or improvements, sure! but never doubt your own work. You have a glowing endorsement from at least one subscriber today.
What a lovely comment. I really appreciate it when people are this kind. Thank you.
I like the extrusion. We use it at work. Very versatile stuff.
Suggestion: use bolts off the back of the extrusion to clamp across the back of existing fence. Does away with the obstructions on top. ✌️👍
This is great advice and what I am trying at the moment. IT seems the most practical solution. thank you
Well done. I have used the 30x.... extrusions for my mitre saw and also for my drill press. you will be amazed at the possibilities now for their use in these circumstances. I have also got the JessEm Clear-Cut Stock Guides for Router Tables and surprise I can use them on the mitre saw/ router table, drill press and the table saw. In each case they work brilliantly. The table saw users may say that they are not out wide enough but 90% of any feather-boards are located directly on the fence and are very close anyway. This gives me safety and excellent value for money with the Jessem product. 😊
Brilliant. I cant wait to try it all out in other areas. Thank you.
While I did miss your previous fence builds, I did make a variation of this one quite a while back. I have a Metabo (USA sold) which has a VERY similar fence with the rack & pinion design. Using a caliper, I measured the inside dimensions of the larger piece of the fence, and ran a piece of 1 inch (apx 25mm) thick MDF through my planer to get it to the proper thickness to be able to fit inside of the fence. After doing that, I drilled 4 holes aligned with a piece of extruded aluminum, and used captive nuts, and the same star nuts you used, to secure the new fence to the existing fence. I will be adding the upgrades you used in this video, to my fence, I really like them.
Sounds like we have a similar approach to the same problem. I appreciate you sharing your method, thank you
Always a great start to the weekend when you post a video.
Thank you James. I always appreciate it.
Thanks for working through your design process out loud. I really appreciate that style. I have a few things to add to the conversation here. The longer the fense, the more leverage it will exert on the hold down mechanics of the base fense. To refute or prove this on your machine, repete the same test while adding forces to the lead in side of your new fense and observe if your dial indicator moves, then make a judgement call as to if that is ok. Having the fense support your lead in side of the material being cut will also play into lifting the fense. I'm guessing the outfeed side of the fense is "clamped" to the track, thus not allowing it to lift up away from the saw surface. Many saws out there do not have this feature. Personally, i would not want to learn that halfway through a rip. I work alone much of the time in my shop, and when i need help, i get it, or find a better way to deal with the aquard cuts (think track saw or a simple wood fense and circ-saw). A few of your commenters proposed drilling through the fense and use your t-nut connections to secure the excrution to the fense. I agree with them on that concept (less things to fail). As an added bonus, you could also attach the excrusion laying flat on your saw to have less verticle face to deal with when cutting closer to the blade. My comments come from a good place to add to your ongoing conversation, no disrespect or ill will intended. Thanks for getting me thinking about how i would look at this puzzle.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Very useful knowledge. And I would never read something this helpful and think anything other than, thank you. Great shout about lying the extrusion on its side too.
Another less over engineered solution: secure a piece of 3/4” (18-19mm) MDF on the backside of the extrusion with countersunk screws and specialty track nuts that you have. Drill 2 vertical holes in the mdf and use two universal fence clamps (~$15-20) to secure it to the factory fence. This way you leave top side of the track on extrusion unobstructed for any special accessories that you want to mount there.
This is about the simplest solution I thin k. Thank you,
Thank you for sharing your thought process and different results along the way to your fence improvement build!
More than welcome. Thank you for watching.
Track clamps is the way forward. Or make similar from the rear of the extrusion to the side / rear of the original fence with those Hold down clamps you have. Great video as always
This may just work. I need to take a look. Thank you.
Excellent video! My daughter expressed an interest in learning woodworking so I started looking into making safety improvements. In my search I ran into the BOW line of woodworking products. However, their longest fence was not long enough to attach their infeed and outfeed supports at each end of my biesemeyer fence. I did find a 30 x 150 x 1500mm extruded aluminum t-slot rail on amazon for under $100 US. And I also purchased a pair of POWERTEC 71409 Quick Screw Guide Rail Clamps amazon also. The clamps slide in the rear t-slot at each end of the rail and clamp to my fence. I am able to reposition my fence without having to loosen the rail clamp. I was worried about the fence bowing due to the clamping pressure at both ends of the fence. But my measurements found no bowing. I purchased a couple of BOW feather boards for the fence and one for the table saw. Unfortunately, the BOW infeed/outfeed extensions will not fit on my fence, so I will have to make those.
That sounds like a brilliant job bud.
Nice idea but as I have the same table saw, my thoughts are just drill through the existing fence in 2 places and secure with through bolt and star knob. I feed support with a strip of flat bar aluminium secure on the underside profile with a single bolt fixing so it can be rotated out of the way when not needed. When the extended fence is removed, the 2 drilled holes in the existing fence will have no detrimental effect.
I just dont know if I want to drill right through the fence. Though I can see how it is the easiest way. I better take another look. Thank you for sharing your experience.
@@startmaking1What do you think is going to happen as a result of two small holes in the fence? I did it to mine over 15 years ago and the two little holes have never caused me a problem, with or without the extension installed. The factory fence is just a simple aluminum extrusion. You just take simple measures not to allow the screws to crush and distort the fence.
@@actionjksn My fence has a clamp rod running through it and I don't know where it is. I think I would at least want to know that before drilling.
I like this a lot. For the clamping, If you don't want to change anything, I'd suggest taking the two pieces of wood you made and attach them to the back side of the extrusion where they hang past the table saw fence. Then clamp them to each end of the fence (vs clamping them from the top). My guess (not having built this) is that your clamps might be pulling the extrusion out of plumb. Pulling them against the fence lower down would alleviate that. You could also try making a couple of pieces of wood in a sort of C shape, where each leg attaches to the aluminum. Then you'd have a couple of shapes at each end that look like the holes in your previous attempt for the f-style clamps to attach to.
Keep coming up with great ideas!
This is really good advice. I will take a look tomorrow. Thank you
Good afternoon Mark. I don’t have any handy hints for you except to keep up the good work. And Izzy Swan comes up with some interesting solutions to problems we never thought we had 🌞
His mind is simply unique. I love what he comes up with. It's like he is just playing but then what he makes is ground breaking. thank you Ray.
I feel like a lot of the issues you encountered could be resolved by just using a 20 x 100 extrusion. Yes, it would likely be more expensive, but you'd get that 20mm above the factory fence that you could then use with clamps that you either make or source, to hold on to the factory fence. The rollers could then (likely) be installed on the top of the extrusion using the slots that are already there. You might have to swap some mounting hardware around to get it all to be totally compatible. All that said, I sprung for the Bow a while ago. It stung, but I use it every time I use my fence, and it was an absolute game changer. Love seeing these DIY solutions!
Brilliant advice. Thank you
Genius at work. Well done
Thanks bud. Very kind.
I bought the bow extender fence setup. I love it. I can resaw on my table saw
Thats brilliant and as I said in the first video, I think it is a good product. The experiment is can you do something similar for a lot less.
Two of the MicroJig ratcheting clamps slid into the back of the extrusion will secure it to the fence supper tight, and will come off really easily when needed. That will also leave the top completely open so you can attach anything you want to it.
I think there must be a size of extrusion where this will work but neither of mine was compatible. Great idea though.
A very well done video that has has given me the epiphany that I lack the patience, discipline, initiative, and skill to do any of the things you've so cleverly worked out. That's actually a good thing. As Dirty Harry Callahan remarked at the end of Magnum Force, a man's got to know his limitations. Thanks for helping me know mine. I'll by the expensive one.
Hi Richard. That expensive one looks amazing to be fair.
Keep up the videos. I need quite a bit of reminding.
I have to say great video and ill be using this for my table saw. Now for me i have an older craftsman table saw which has through holes in the stock fence so attacking this for me is as simple as running a few of the extrusion bolts through the back and slapping on some star knobs. So win for having an older craftsman table saw compared to new ones.
Great bit of luck already having the holes. Brilliant.
I use the 20 x 80 extrusion for a lot of router jigs. With a piece of clear acrylic sheet overhanging the bottom, it's a great straight edge for a guide bushing to ride against.
Great idea. Thank you.
I have no space in my current house for a table saw. So I am mostly exploring track saw workflows. already got my track saw. This has been a very effective demonstration of the long tail of issues that can be totally sidestepped by the use of a track saw!! Hopefully I will be able to figure out enough solutions for a track saw system that i'll never need to get a table saw, even once I have the space for one. I would like to get a band saw first.
If space is tight, a track saw is definitely the way to go. Check out 10 minute workshop, He managed without a table saw for years.
@@startmaking1thanks! Yes I found him recently and his tips are gonna be my bible!
They make "fence clamps" that have a rod with a 90 degree bend intended for inserting into a drilled hole in a wood extension fence for one end. Looks like one can get a pair for USD 10-20 if you don't already have one. Drill a couple holes of the right size vertically through the extrusion for attachment points and you'll get your clamping pressure down at the midpoint so it's not twisting the fence out of plumb without the clamp showing on the face. You can reuse them to attach a sacrificial fence when making rabbets and other cuts where the blade needs to be close enough the fence there's risk of damaging the fence.
This looks to be the perfect all round solution I think. Thank you.
I use these clamps with 23mm birch ply extension fence. More than accurate enough for my skill set.
@startmaking1 I tried every kind of clamp out there for about a year trying to avoid drilling holes through the original fence.....wish I had done it day one.
Forget all the "half assed" clamping gimmicks and just drill the holes, you'll be glad you did....
Love your videos. I believe you may suffer from the same issue I have, namely in the process of trying to solve a problem I end up going down a very long deep rabbit hole. It seems to me that a possible solution to this problem may be to simply use a sacrificial fence using fence clamps. You just drill holes on the top of the material you’re using for the fence. These clamps have a dowel-like rod that slides down into the hole and clamps from the back. Google table saw fence clamps.
You are spot on Peter. I actually kind of enjoy the rabbit hole. I like the idea of fence clamps but I didnt like using them with extrusion and ply was a pain to get both dead straight and light as the previous video to this showed. But I do have a plan I think.
Great solution, Mark. You’ve got me thinking about my router fence now 😊
It would definitely work for that. I imagine one long piece across the back with a hole cut out for dust collection. With 2 smaller pieces on the front of that so you can close the gap up around the router . Though that is a lot. Im sure there are better idea.s
Regarding fixing it to the fence, so you get rid of the two nubs sticking up, you could use dado clamps (or if not, some clamp that fits in the extrusion's slots) at the beginning and end of the fence, just like you do with the spirit level at 3:47. The Milescraft 4021 clamps or something similar might work.
Great idea. Thank you for sharing. Appreciate the input.
Big improvement for not too much more money! Seems like you could use the same hold down clamps to hold the extension to the original fence if you utilized the slots in the extrusion and clamped to the original fence from the front and rear instead of over the top. This should eliminate the need for the riser blocks and give you a cleaner look as well as making the top surface more open for attachments.
My match fit ones are a little wide at the curve but close. I will have to look at a few brands. Thank you
Cut some U-channel with roughly the right interior dimension, add spacers/shims if needed, boom, easy clamp that may not even require fastening. It'll slot into the 80/20 channel and over the existing fence. Make some cutouts in the plywood top piece for access, or if the fit is good enough, use the plywood to secure the U-channel pieces. This also gives you convenient hooks for wall storage
Great idea. Thank you.
Great work, Mark!
Hey bud. Thank you. I did this one before I say your 3D printer in action (loved that last video especially getting your family involved in the fun). That 3D printer combined with this would have been excellent. may just have to go down the 3D printer rabbit hole. If I ever get offered one. Take it easy bud.
Let me start by saying that I'm not sure if this is better or just different, but I think it would be an easy experiment. Widen the top strip of wood slightly and angle the cut on the back side by 10 degrees. Add a strip of wood to the back side of the top strip that hooks down over the fence, creating a slightly acute angle, and reaches almost all the way down the back side of the fence. Slot the top holes perpendicular to the fence to allow you to pinch the fence between the back strip of wood and the aluminum and tighten the star nuts. The angle of the back piece should keep the pressure low enough to maintain the perfect 90 degrees to the table and eliminate the two towers up top. I just hope I am describing what is in my head well enough to be understood. I have an old Dewalt saw as well and I love this idea for for a fence extension.
I get it, very well explained. And so long as the joints are solid I think that it could be a good and easy solution. Thank you.
Your clamp issue with the aluminum fence actually has a simple solution. They make fence clamps where you drill a hole into your sacrificial/extension fence, the stud of the clamp goes inside and the clamp screws close to clamp against the table saw fence. These type clamps then won't get in the way. Additionally, most aren't very expensive as clamps go.
Thanks Mark. Some great thinking. I don't understand the difficulty of a feed-in support being attached to the fence. I have a caterpillar frame with a plywood top on wheels set to the height of all my saw/router tables. I can then push the feed-in table to wherever I need it. I can also use it to cut down 2400x1200 sheets, within the limit allowed by fence.i.e about 800mm
This is a great idea but I just dont have the space to wheel things around my shop.
My wife calls my workshop a "garage" and insists tha the car is given precedence during storms or hot days. I therfore have to pack everything up and to this end I remove the plywood and fold up the caterpillar legs - until I can reinstate my workshop. I understand that won't be suitable for all wood warriors.
I have been experimenting with the same aluminum fence. I was going to use a smaller piece of aluminum for the front and backboard stabilizers. I would also drill holes in the original fence to attach the new fence. It will be way more stable this way. I love my Bow featherboards, too. They can be mounted without the miter bar. I use t track bolts
You are right. I was really trying not to drill the original fence, for reasons I dont fully know, but eventually after mk 5, 6 and 7 I may just have to.
Well done, I admire your inventiveness !
Thats kind thank you.
Quick query...if extrusion/tracking has built in t-slots then guide rail clamps could be used on the back of the extrusion to secure it to existing fence? Would alleviate any interference at the front face? By the by, I had to use alternative fence as a dangerous kick back damaged my original Dewalt fence 2 weeks after getting your same jobsite saw. Sometimes I laugh, sometimes I jaw drop at my own stupidity for not thinking of your simple solutions. Keep it up fella. Good mental health to you.
My very thought , about using the existing fence, and T nuts, with star knobs. Easily removed and refitted
@@paulcooper9187my first thought as well.
You can but only if you buy extrusions with 8mm t slot
I think I can to be honest but not with the 2 extrusions I bought. So the question is do I make a mk 5 just for me where I finally get it right lol.
@@startmaking1I think a “Mk V” is almost compulsory at at this point!
There are clamps similar to f clamps that hold diwn tracksaw tracks. Not sure what size they are, but maybe that could be used to hold it to the fence.
I was going to look into converting a pair since reading all of these helpful comments. Thank you.
I think I could unbolt my fence from its clamp, and replace it using bolts in the back tracks of the extrusion. great video, thanks!
That sounds like a really good solution. Thank you for sharing.
I used a length of good quality box tubing as the basic fence extension. I used the blue tape & CA glue trick to fix it to the saw's fence. I am now in the market for an improvement.
How well did the glue and blue tap hold up. Genuinely curious.
@startmaking1 Unexpctedly well - it's going to be difficult to detatch it when I eventually upgrade.
@douglasclerk2764 brilliant
When you get ready to remove the box tubing put some fingernail polish remover (paint thinner) at the junction. It will soften the CA glue and/or the adhesive on the blue tape.
@mikebeck7263 Thanks - though fingernail polish remover is acetone, not paint thinner.
I have already upgraded using aluminium box tubing. Greater length and same profile as the original fence. Now attached with double-sided tape.
Track clamps, e.g., the Bow XT2, or equivalent.
On the rear/outfeed side, you could probably slide a clamp into the back-facing (fence-side) slot on the extrusion, and then clamp against your existing fence. On the front/infeed side, you might have some interference with the fence mechanism. Options include drilling vertical holes through the extrusion (large enough for the clamp), or perhaps attaching some extra bits of extrusion (rotated 90° to the main extrusion) to give you something for the track clamps to fit into.
Great advice. Much appreciated. Thank you.
Great idea, Mark! Re your question at the end: maybe you could make the top wooden runner thicker and route the T-track for the clamps horizontally in this runner? That would avoid the vertical extensions. Not sure if the pressure would be distributed the way you want, though...
Very good idea. Thank you for sharing.
LOVE this idea. New subscriber here. I have JessEm guides that I didn’t want to attach permanently to the fence on my SawStop. Yours is a perfect solution!
Thank you very much.
Just drill 3 holes in the original fence and fix the extrusion with t-nuts. Easy to do, easy to remove and you can slide the fence for more support to the front or rear. Did it that way, works like a charm for years.
That is the obvious way to do it. But for some bizarre reason he seems to think those tiny screw size holes will cause something bad to happen I guess. I did it about 15 years ago on a DeWalt job site saw and it's never been a problem.
Easy tiger. Im just trying this out before I butcher my £800 saw. It's all good.
It will be my eventual fall back.
As always belting vid rkid cleer and Precise directors very well made keep up the good work I love it 😀👍
I made a fence that slotted over the front and back of the table saw fence and braced the table saw fence across the ends … this allows me to lift the home made fence on and off as required
Very nice.
Mark, great project and insight into finding solutions. Thanks
Thank you David. Very kind.
I just drilled a couple of holes and screwed my extension board on. A couple of holes through the fence on my job site saw doesn't bother me at all. When I remove the extension the fence still works perfectly fine with a couple of small holes in it. That just seems like a whole lot of trouble to avoid drilling two small holes through the fence on a job site saw.
I know. I just wanted to challenge myself . thank you
I have a couple of clamps that a designed to clamp a sacrificial board to my fence. They fit into 3/8" holes in the board. You could do the same with your aluminum fence. I got mine from Rockler, but I'm sure other sources are available.
Im going to try these next time I am tinkering. Thank you.
A suggestion would be to add another piece of timber to the top piece of timber making a C shape covering the existing fence
Put a couple of threaded inserts into it and use the star knobs to tighten
Hope that makes sense
Yep that's the way I'd do it. You could also just use a star knob to tighten against the back to keep it firmly in place.
Perfect sense. Thank you. It's a great idea.
Good project - and a t-track / dovetail clamp on the back will be great for mk5!
I wonder how many people like me just ordered the exact same extrusion from oozenest??
Hi Alan. I hope they have enough. No, I doubt from the comments it is all that many people. There seem to be a fair few who have done it already. To be honest, the extrusion, indeed support and just 2 clamps without all my overengineering is just fine and really easy.
Great video as always Mark I have the Sam saw and been looking into upgrading the fence.this will be very helpful as always. Have a great week.
Thank you Jim. It isnt perfect but it works. The saw though, man it is loud. I have no other experience but as much as I love it, I would spend twice as much if I cold get one half as loud lol.
You’re welcome, I know that you mean ya it’s loud and I’m in the same boat I don’t have any other experience with any other table saw except I had a very small Ryobi table saw and it was very loud also. I would pay the same for a saw that was quieter. But I do love my DeWalt one much better then the Ryobi one
i have some some of the wide aluminum profile that i picked up for "other " projects but never made so i may use it for something like yours , i use a electric standing / height desk for an outfeed table and around the shop table too
I have been so tempted by a rising table for this exact reason but my shop is just too small.
@@startmaking1 some of them you could cut the cross connecting bars and drive shaft down and the top to fit maybe???!!!!! :) i use mine as an assembly table a lot and just tear stuff down too
Hi Mark, to me this works and does the job, it doesn't matter how big or bulky it's better than not having one and I think you done a good job, look at it as an improvement and a good accessory. For the price of the parts which is not bad and all it cost you is the time to make it, any accessory that is made is an improvement to the workshop and this is one of them. As always a great video, catch you soon Take care
Thank you Shaun. And as an added bonus, I love tinkering with this kind of thing. So much fun. I may just get back to woodworking soon lol. Take care bud.
Will do this style, and I'm lucky my fence came with 3 holes already that I can use to attach it. I hate my fence, it sits more than 1/8" from the table, so I can't use the guide to cut 1/8" plywood without attaching a board.
Thanks for the useful tips.
Thank you. Wow, that is a big old gap.
A piece of wood, a little longer than the built in fence, behind the fence, and 2 long screws into the extrusion, on both sides, clamping it in place, with star nuts simple and sturdy, and much cheaper than your solution
I just dont know if I want to drill right through the fence. I better take another look.
Drill through your stock fence. Run bolts into square nuts in the T slots in the back of your sub fence. If you drill some holes in the top edge of the extrusion you could use L bolt sub fence clamps near the ends of your stock fence. Mines just a long pine 2x but I’ve already had to re joint and thickness plane it true again. Someone working for me had that Dewalt saw with a dent in the fence face. We just screwed through the fence into a longer taller trued wood 2x sub fence. Any subfence gives up rip capacity.
This would work too.
Beautifully done! I wish you went through this process about a month ago though, I just went through a similar process of trial and error trying to build out my own extension fence for my table saw, utilizing jussum rollers. I built mine with 20/20 extrusion. I stacked them all up, put a small shim underneath them, then made metal brackets to tighten everything together. I ended up cutting holes, and bolting the whole fixture directly to the fence, because I couldn't figure out any kind of solution that would fit in my workspace. I definitely did bump into a few of the f-style clamps and decided to just bolt them to the fence, so I didn't end up hurting myself 😂 I also made the bracket for the rollers, and the infeed support out of small cut-offs of the extrusion
Lol, sorry for the delay. Sounds like yours is a beautiful job. Well done.
I appreciate the work end effort that went into it. But for me, I just use a sawhorse that matches the height of the table saw if I'm cutting larger boards. Though I will likely pick up an extrusion, I have been using a level.
Nothing wrong with a sawhorse at all bud. If it works it cant be wrong as I like to say.
Brilliantly explained 👏👍
I appreciate that Gary. Thank you bud.
They make plastic end caps for those. Also the thicker ones with a bigger cavity are good for a router fence because if you cut through the face half way of it you can add a vacuume to the end to pull the cuttings away from the head
Another brilliant point. Thank you.
I bought an Incra router fence that I think is set up the same way that you are describing. Already set up to use a shop vacuum to extract the chips.
you could make a more cleaner fence if you play around with aluminum profile accessories like different Corner Angle Fitting, T Slot L-Shape Aluminum Profile Interior Corner Connector Joint, Aluminum L Connector etc... and remove all those woods in your fence. This way it looks much cleaner.
I LOVE THIS ! ! ! I have burned many brain-cells trying to come up with a viable solution . . . to no avail. I even like the clamp towers, I would just make them able to accept additional accessories. Although I'm wondering if a slightly taller fence could make them unnecessary ? ? ? Things that make you go hmmm . . .
Im glad that it has helped. There are probably tons of improvements that could be made. Take a look in the comments loads of good ideas.
Try a track saw clamp, mine fit in my extrusion on my "mill table" that I attached to my drill press. they are cheap, they come in pairs, and you can just slot them into the t track to clamp to the original fence.
My match fit ones are a little wide at the curve but close. I will have to look at a few brands. Thank you
I was today years old when i realized the Dewalt and Skill jobsite saws were not identical.
I was going to suggest using additional T-Bolts in the top of the fence, but, after watching the video a second time, I realized the Dewalt saw does not have a T-Track on top of the fence (whereas the Skill does).
Hi Mark, I'm a bit late to there comment okay this week but you did make me laugh with the paraphrased "you know me, i over engineered it". Looks like i need to buy some extrusion now...
I think from reading the comments that if you can find some that match with either the match fit system of track clamps then it will be the most useful. But over engineering it is the most fun. lol.
It’s good to see Phil Collin’s is keeping busy after his music career. Woodworking is an excellent hobby especially if your hearing is already shot 😂
Lol, I have no idea where the Phil collins thing came from. It started only a month ago. I will take the compliment though.
Use the microjig matchfit system: attach a board to the back of the extrusion with the matchfit dovetail and then clamp it to the fence
Yes. That will be my first solution too
Simple genius right here. Thank you.
Drill holes through the factory fence. Make the hole on the back side big enough to fit a socket. Then attach your extrusion using the nuts and bolts as you've done with your other accessories.
It's a good idea. I have gone a different way so as not to damage the fence but your way would definitely work well.
Hi Mark, thanks for another great video, I'm loving that aluminium extrusion, can't help thinking there must be some other uses for that around the workshop, will it take rail saw clamps I wonder? Thanks again buddy, and as always....stay lucky!
You think like me Paul. I have been thinking about the other uses too. Thank you
I would use a bit of angle iron or ally and use the T nuts and a through hole on the hoz surface leaving a gap between the vertical portion and the existing fence, and just drill/tap the holes on the vertical bolt though,add a 3d printed face to not mark the existing fence, and 3d print and handle if you like and tension up.
Wow, I have a lot to learn before I can implement this but it sounds perfect.
one word for you... genius
2 back atcha. Thank you. Much appreciated. Damn, that was 4.
Woe - this design just ignites the possibilities! ! :) Why didn't you make that top board an L, with the L projecting down at least 1/2 height of OEM fence. Then, you just slip onto the OEM fence - no extra clamps needed.
I was worried that I would not get it tight enough.
The distance from the slot to the fence extension went up fairly consistently from one end to the other, suggesting that it's not so much that the extrusion isn't straight as it isn't parallel to the slot. 0.1 mm isn't much, but you could probably eliminate most of it with your fence's parallelism adjustment.
Very good point. Thank you.
You can find some bolts with heads that will fit in the extrusion track; at that point, you can bolt your towers to the back of the extrusion, one at either end of your fence. Take a look at how machinists fixture; typically, you have a flat piece with a bolt through the middle, and a bolt at one end as a 'jack', with the other end used to hold down the material.
Brilliant. Thank you.
@@startmaking1 (However, if your fence is a box extrusion like mine is, don't crank down the bolts too hard, because you will squash your fence.)
Really great ideas and helpful information.
I especially like and respect the fact you always
include your "Oh Crap" moments. Like leaving out
the sliders in the top rail.
I have BTDT many times. Well, OK, almost Every
time I touch something.
The one time I will Never forget I was rebuilding an
automatic transmission. I, Twice, left something amiss
(you guessed it) right in the middle. Which, of course,
means I had to open it up three times. Also, keep in mind,
I had to put it back in the car, to find something is wrong.
And, of course, I didn't have lift, so I was working on the
garage floor, with the front jacked up (well supported) and
lifting the transmission on and off my chest.
Yeah, that was a "Fun" day! 🤪🤪🤪 😁✌🖖
Hey bud. Love the story as always. Thank you. So many oh crap moments in every build I do. Though I tend to laugh now rather than. berate myself. Just picturing your fun day feels familiar lol.
Great video 👍
Simply, use the slots on the backside of the fence with your t-track clamps. One on the front and one on the back. That puts the pressure inline with the fence instead of skewing it from the top.
Sadly my track clamps dont fit in the slots. I will see if there is a better extrusion for my purpose.
@@startmaking1 The current solution has wood bolted to extrusion thats has t-track screwed to it. Just bolt that short section of t-track to the extrusion using the extrusions t-nuts.
@gadgetmerc oh i see. I will give it a go. Thank you
Could you clamp from the ends rather than from above? Festool rail clamps might slide inside the tracks on the back of the extrusion and clamp onto the back of the fence.
Mine do not fit but I will have to see if others do. Thank you
You could drill through the original fence to grab the new one or you could simply glue the original fence to the new one with something like Soudal T-Rex. Maybe even a strong double sided tape might be enough, with such a big area of contact double sided tape is really strong.
You could also extend the new fence on the top like you did with the strip of plywood, only a bit wider so it hangs over the back side of the original fence and then come down on the back with another board, making the cross section of the new fence an inverted U that wraps around the original fence. That inverted U could be wide enough to leave a bit of space between the two fences and then you can drill through the back plate and screw bolts with "feet" on the inside of the U that, when screwed in, push against the back of the original fence. Basically you make the new fence into a long G-clamp in cross section with as many points of pressure as you want.
All good ideas thank you very much.
Great improvement, Mark. I love following the process. The number of things I've created before redesigning and rebuilding... as for the clamping solution, could you use C clamps that run along the aluminium extrusion, or maybe a threaded rod secured by the flat extrusion nuts and then a small clamping bar (100 x 15mm) with a hole in one end? Bar fits over threaded rod and gets tightened with nut or knurled knob. Just had another thought... imagine how much you could make designing knurled knobs on a 3D printer 😜
hi Iain. Hope you are well. Great idea for the clamping. I have a few older clamps that I could rejig. Please dont mention 3D printing. I am getting dangerously tempted after seeing everyone using one. IT would suit me perfectly if I could ever learn how to use it.
@startmaking1 exactly the same here. Bambu P1S keeps appearing on my 'to review list'. The Swedish Maker and Wittworks have highly recommended. Hopefully, Bambu reach out to you, as I feel it would benefit the viewer from watching someone starting out on their 3D journey. Just imagine the French cleat prints. Mark, its paid for itself already 🙃
@iainrutherford184 you are so right bud. Especially someone as inept as me. To be honest with the laser I turned down so many just waiting for xTool to offer. Same with the printer now, Bambu or nobody. We watch the same channels. Love what Swedish maker is doing . So much passion, love the little cheers when it goes right.
I use a length of aluminium angle as its easy to clamp to my dewalt tablesaw fence, but it would probably be better with aluminium c channel
Brilliant
Great idea. but I don't really have a problem with drilling a couple hole thru the stock fence for bolts. 👍
Fair enough.
my idea is to use a piece of plywood that is slightly longer than the fence and us long bolt to screw into the extension from the back, so no clamp needed and making kind of like a parallel clamp.
That could just work. Thank you
Use the two red clamps either end of the saw fence in the extrusion channels.
Sadly my t track clamps dont fit in the slots. I will see if there is a better extrusion for my purpose.
I'm pretty sure you can get direct size tee bolts, M5 M6 etc.
Instead of building your clamp towers to go over the OEM fence, place them beyond the ends of the fence but within the height of the OEM fence, far end and near end. That leaves the entire top of the extrusion for whatever you desire.
I will take a look. Thank you.
Remove the track towers you made and install the red clamps to the existing t track fence you have. Try installing the clamps where the ends of your fence meet the face of the aluminum extrusion so the clamps will be positioned horizontal instead of vertical.
This may just work. I need to take a look. Thank you.
I feel like there were some missed opportunities with the aluminum extrusions.
1. You showed 80x20 and 30x120, but your supplier sells a goldilocks size at 30x90. Less height, less weight, and slightly cheaper than the 30x120.
2. The 30 Series extrusions have t-slots, as in t-track slots. You should be able to slide any t-track type fixtures into the slots on the 30 series extrusions.
3. The Bow featherboard, remove the knobs completely, pull out the 5/16 t-bolts from that miter track bar thing and confirm that the square head slides into the track on the 30 series extrusion. That should save you adding plywood to the face when you want to attach feather board.
4. Drill 2 or 3 holes into 1 face of the factory saw fence at the correct height to line up with a channel in the 30 series extrusion. You don’t need to drill any holes in the extrusion itself. You can get a more snug fitting t-nut that takes an M8 bolt. Then you just need to determine the length to go through the saw fence and catch in the t-nut that will be captured in the extrusion slot. This allows you to slide the extrusion forward or back by simply loosening those M8 bolts and there are no holes in your extrusion, no plywood on top of your extrusion sticking up like crazy.
Deez Nutz 😂, sorry, couldn’t resist… ooznest.co.uk/product/m8-30-series-slide-nut-t-slot-zinc-plated/
M8 bolt head will sit inside your factory saw fence, you should be able to tighten or loosen easily with an Allen/hex key.
Brilliant. Thank you for taking the time to share the knowledge. Appreciated
Would track saw clamps fit in the groove in the aluminum? First thing that popped in my head.
It's a great thought but I have now tried 3 brands. The trend ones fit the larger extrusion I would but it is quite heavy. I may look for one more solution.
Good drills matey. I love the solution.
Thanks bud. Appreciate it. Mk5 on its way lol
@@startmaking1 Looking forward to seeing that. Very clever idea using extrusion. If I had a table saw I would want to make one, but it's a bit excessive for a hand saw! LOL.