Printing in the Darkroom with Ilfochrome (Cibachrome)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 มิ.ย. 2024
- An in-depth demonstration of traditional wet darkroom printing, specifically, color ilfochrome (a.k.a. cibachrome), the only method for printing directly from positive film to positive paper. Filmed in my studio in San Jose, California.
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This was really beautiful to watch!
Thanks Willem!
I get the sense that you're saddened by the realization that this passion you have with lifochrome comes with knowing one day soon, it will be no more. It's tragically beautiful.
Few companies reintroduced color film production in recent years and RA4 paper process isn'T going to be replaced anytime soon. This unusual dye-destruction process never was a popular thing because of it's huge price. It's sad but nothing can be done about it.
It's a shame that the material for this process has has been discontinued. Thanks for taking the time to make this video
Thanks Doug for sharing your print processes with us. I am a bit late to the game myself and have been exploring alternative processes and appreciate your taking the time to share this with your viewers.
I just found out about Ilfochrome... I wish Ilford will bring it back.
Kodak is making a massive comeback and starting to market their brand again. Ilford has a good opportunity to do so too and bring back this paper!!! It would be so amazing to print slide film the correct way
fascinating, true artisan at work.
thanks for taking the time to show this process.
I loved Cibachrome. Like Kodachrome nothing like it and unfortunately probably never coming back. Wish I had done what you had and purchased a large volume of it to stash away. thanks for sharing
Stunning video ! I think Ilford made a big mistake . Instead of shutting down production they should have advertised the method , made videos like yours and so on . I just became aware of the process . I wish i could do it .
Thanks Edersandro. Yes, it's unfortunate, Ilford really did fail to marketing the opportunity including the unique beauty of the medium.
Fantastic video Doug. Thank you!
Great video,lovely to see the passion that went into making a great print the old fashioned way.
Absolutely EXCELLENT!!! Thank you!
The cleanest development process I have ever seen!
Loved every second of it, thank you for sharing this Douglas.
Very well done! Those prints are stunning!
I would love to see a video detailing your digital process (especially printing).
What a great video! Thank you for sharing your experience!
Thanks for the inspiration Doug. I'm a 68 year old photog who's gonna get back into analog. I just plain miss it even tho I've got enough digital equipment to sink a battleship. (2 Hasselblad H3D's among many other Sony Canon Olympus and mostly Nikon stuff). I guess you could say I'm obsessed with making pictures all the way from the beginning, taking the shot, to the end, printing the shot. Up With Kodak!
I loved watching you work. So organized and tidy. Very relaxing and reminds me of how I used to do it back in the Day. How I miss my darkroom. Thanks very much.
Thanks for the compliments. In fairness, my everyday darkroom organization is a little sloppier ;)
This was such an amazing video. I had to comment to say thank you.
This is phenomenal. Thank you so so much. It was a perfect mix of interesting and relaxing and was really fantastic to have seen : )
Very kind words. Thank you.
Never see anyone print cibachrom,it’s super amazing work and sure one think, digital has not yet surpassed ang film .
Wow! I'm impressed by your passion for this dying art and by the results of your work. I hope to have a color dark room in the semi-near future. Thanks for sharing.
you are a maniac in the best possible way. excellent video
Wow. Amazing. Thanks for sharing!!!
Great video product and wonderful topic - thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and insights into this process. Certainly sad that this is no longer available.
Fascinating work.
WOW! In my case it is not the terms of "willing" it is the terms of space... you have a own house for it :-) thats awsome!!!
this is incredible!!
Eric, thanks for the comments. I have only photographed with Provia on rare occasions. I've also used Velvia 100 but it's quite different from 50. My style is well suited to Velvia and Ilfochrome because much of what I photograph is in subtle, reflected, ambient light. Even then, the printed images still exhibit high contrast.
In the original video, I mentioned I don't contrast mask. But recently, I had the fortunate opportunity to work with a master printer who printed Ilfochrome commercially back in the day. So I have some new skills in my repertoire for the remaining paper.
I plan to make a new video (from my new studio in Bend, Oregon) in the coming months.
In the early 1980s, I learned color printing by starting with original Cibachrome. This first type pf Cibachrome presented several issues which were ironed out in later versions: massive high contrast and a serious reciprocity failure starting at about 20 seconds exposure time, which would be exceeded necessarily for prints larger than 8x10. I replace the Ciba developer with a two-bath alternative to partly manage contrast. I added a contrast control ("unsharp") mask process later to fully control the process. With that, I could make maybe three final (different) prints in a day. I quickly learned not to open the processing drum until a final wash in-drum was completed, as the fumes from the bleach and fix processes could literally knock you over. When Cibachrome went away, a gave away almost all of the paper and chemistry I still had and shifted to neg/pos color printing. Much easier and safer to do. Both the Cibachrome paper and bleach are hard to manufacture, and the demand would be fairly modest, so I doubt it will come back. Ilford always keep the formula for the bleach a propriety secret, so DIY folks like me are still screwed.
Yeah, cibachrome isn't coming back. Some of us negotiated a partial powder/raw version of the chemistry. I haven't mixed any yet because I'm still running through my last delivered batch of chemistry from late 2015 which could start to expire any day now. If I'm lucky I still have 3-4 years of printing left. I have enough paper to make 2-3K worth of prints but even that is starting to shift (losing density in the blacks). And, yeah, I run a water wash in my Jobo before washing in trays to avoid the extra stink. Cheers!
a dedicated image maker! thanks for sharing, a world a way from my work but again really enjoyed it
wow!! passion is the key
I used to do ilfochrome printing in the 1980s.
I remember rolling the print tank in the bathroom with warm water in the bath.
It was pretty easy and I still have the prints.
Ilfochrome prints are very permanent.
If Kodak brought back Kodachrome and Bromesko black and white paper I would be very happy.
If Ilfochrome paper and chemicals came back too I would be an over the moon 72 year old.
Great video! Thank you. I just started playing the film. Currently only had enlarged b&w, very interesting. I hope to have access to color printing.
Thanks for making this video.
great video! I've been printing black and white for a decade, but sad that I've missed the opportunity to print from colour transparencies.... very well produced and informative
Nice video, Douglas! I visited your website to look at what you're doing - more power to you!! You've inspired a tremendous number of people to go out and express themselves on some slide film - that's something you can be very proud of!
Thanks Andy. Appreciate the kind words.
thank you SO much for sharing this Douglas... I wish it comes back! :'(
First of all you are an amazing photographer, the shot used for this finished image is beautiful and would be in any medium. Your printing is out of this world, every bit was measured perfection. Your darkroom is fantastic and you have some top notch kit, but it can only do small but important changes and it needs someone with talent and passion to get the best out of it. I never thought it was possible to get emotional watching someone else make a darkroom print. Thank you for sharing this video.
wow.. i admire the process, make me fully understanding how people produce the masterpiece photo print by their hand... i have my own lab epson d3000 and stylus pro7900 ans use it on daily basis but this "process" make my eyes open.... what a great image...superb... shame on my digital print without knowing the difficult process of this... thanks for expand my knowledge
Thank you for that video. It's a real shame that such a unique material just disappeared. I really don't understand how it could happen.
Marcin, it is indeed a shame. The material is unparalleled and the product's failure falls squarely on Ilford's shoulders. They failed to address the digital revolution and market Ilfochrome as a viable printing medium to commercial printers who all switched to or adopted Fuji Crystal Archive. Despite pleas by many photographers and printers (including offers to donate photographs for marketing/trade show efforts), Ilford simply let the product slide into obscurity.
Douglas Vincent It was a sad day when they pulled the plug!! I take t that there is no equivalent?
Great bro! Really wish to have my work print on ilfordchrome too^^
Markd514 - yes, I do still have chem and it's actually relatively recent - delivered from Switzerland last summer. But it's less than what I need to print 100% of the paper I have left. Unfortunately, Ilford Swiss is now bankrupt. There are people worse off than me and I hold out hope someone with enough resources ($$) may coax a final batch of chemistry out of the remains of Ilford once its bankruptcy is settled.
Let's hope so!
I've been in a photo rut of a month or two. I watched your video awhile back.
your work is incredible Douglas! keep doing it, it shows a great spirit of detail an aesthetic vision of the reality. A question, it is possible to find chemistry for the entire process nowadays? Congratulations
Hey Martin, sorry, been traveling a lot the last month. You cannot find chemistry in stock anywhere. A chemist in Switzerland has the rights to produce chemistry (he's done it for me and others in the past) but it's enormously expensive and requires a significant volume commitment.
Now THAT is how you make a print!
I hated that Ilfo was discontinued. I printed on it starting when it was Ciba, and in fact used a neutralizing solution before the chems were discarded. RIP Ilfochrome.
I like your "invisible signature."
Very awesome clip :0)
I used to do Cibachrome with drums. It was a tedious process. Getting the filtration right was a long process.
Beautiful…
Thanks you for your excellent video. I am returning to my darkroom after some years and will be printing Ilfochrome again. Your thoughts on contrast masking would be very interesting to know. Have you made your new video yet?
I'll be making the new video this coming Spring ahead of a conference I'll be speaking at. Sorry for the delay. I'm excited to put it all together.
Hi! any news about a new video? I am interested in contrast masking too ;-)
thank you for this video :)
Thank you for posting this video. I've only printed black and white negative in the darkroom so this was interesting to see. From what I've read, it's possible to use a very dim green light with color negative printing, but are there any safelights available for this kind of color positive printing? It's a shame that this paper is no longer available. Is there any color positive printing paper still available?
Additionally, my first ever photography class involved 35mm slide film. I absolutely loved the color and I usually used Velvia 100(F?). I'm pretty sure that if I ever photographed with color film for art purposes, I'd prefer the chrome color positives for the richness. It'd be a shame if the traditional way is gone.
Brilliant!
great work
thanks for sharing this
have you ever enlarged 35mm positive film on Cibachrome
Thank you!
Great video! Thank you. When printing, do you keep in mind the brightness of the lights that the final print will be under when mounted and hung on the wall? The light quality in your darkroom where you put the print on the screen seems much different than where you hung it. Thanks again!
+wolfywho Yes, absolutely. I do not critically evaluate wet prints straight out of the drums. In fact, in my new set-up, I have a dedicated print evaluation wall. I view images under high-CRI LED bulbs at 3000K in a range of 70-80 foot-candles. The LEDs are on a dimmer so I can also evaluate the print in brighter or duller light as well.
+Douglas Vincent - Thanks for your reply, Douglas. Is 3000 kelvin and 70-80 foot candles a "standard" that museums/galleries follow, or is that just a personal rule of thumb based on your experience?
Most galleries still use halogen spots which are rated 2800-2900. Good galleries will target a certain level of foot candles though the chosen foot candle could vary significantly. What is considered "well-lit" is highly subjective. Museums are notorious for under lighting subjects preferring conservation over aesthetic representation
BTW, equivalent LED with strong color rendering (CRI of 90+) is still relatively expensive. I expect galleries to move this direction as costs come down given the superior longevity and power saving of the bulbs. LED at equivalent kelvin still render what I consider a cleaner, whiter cast which is my personal preference.
This reminds me of the Cibachrome P-12 process however I thought it was not as good as the much longer and more difficult P-10 process.
I thought Cibachrome was dead ages ago. Good that they revived it but sad it's now gone. The video does not show the almost 3D effect and stunningly vivid colours the gloss has.
Also I liked your drum roller, in the early days we had to manually roll the drum back and forward. Does the machine alternate the rotation? I had considered making up a motor to the job but never did.
Apologies for not responding sooner. Been traveling a bunch. You're right about capturing the material's beauty, It's so highly reflective, it's almost impossible to capture its unique characteristics by digital means. The drum roller (Jobo CPP) does alternate the rotation which is critical to this type of processing.
we want to see more videos!!!!! :D
Where did you buy your awesome jewelry?
Hi Douglas.
I enjoyed your video, seeing as this was a couple years ago, I'm curious if you still have any Ilfochrome paper left?
Thanks again!
+Geoff Robson - Yes, I'm still printing. I had the fortune to acquire both paper and chemistry which will last me at least a few more years. I plan to make a new updated video this Spring ahead of a talk I'm giving at a symposium, Shooting the West.
Thanks for sharing, it's appreciated....Have you found a paper that has some qualities of Ilfochrome that might be worth investigating.Currently I am amazed that everyone's answer to printing is squarely aimed at sticking a negative in a scanner yikes!! (not my bag at all) I have always shot, developed and printed Monochrome in my darkroom and on occasion's that I used c41 I used a pro lab, but after migrating to Australia many years ago I could not find a pro lab in easy reach at the same quality.I am now at this bonkers stage in my life looking at getting a jobo system myself (the significant cost was a consideration) I prefer the idea of printing colour over purchasing a scanner, any input appreciated and thanks again. Andy
Hi Andy. There, unfortunately, is no comparable to Ilfochrome. The design, materials, and aesthetics of the paper are unique in a way that there really aren't any direct alternatives. Of course, you can go with negative based printing and Fuji's Crystal Archive paper line. When I'm finished with my remaining stock of Ilfochrome (about 4,000 sheets), I'll likely switch to something monochrome like platinum palladium. I used to photograph with Polaroid Type 52 which was a lot of pain, I mean fun ;). Cheers!
@@zenfoto6428 if in the pain and effort, you find joy...it was worth it.
Thanks for you response Douglas, very much appreciated.
lo maximo
As a digital only photographer, I really respect your passion and dedication to this art form. I can honestly say that if this is how we had to work today, I would not be a photographer lol.
I used this back in the 1980s. I still have some prints. Beautiful in the hand. It was so simple. We never thought it wouldn't be around for ever. Bloody digital and ink jets.
I used Kodak Bromesko paper for black and white until it was discontinued.
thank you. :)
have you thought about using infrared to record the development process
@@cstp842 everything emits infrared radiation, so having passive infrared goggles might work, although I wouldn't know if the temperature differences would be large enough as the paper warms up in the liquids. You might use it to get around the darkroom though, but I guess that isn't a problem for most people anyway.
Douglas Vincent in your opinion are color analysers useful to save test paper or is it a waste of money in buying one? Thanks
Luis, I use an old densitometer that can measure neutral and color densities, both transparent and reflective. Since I currently use just one type of paper in the darkroom, the densitometer is only used on occasion. It's helpful when initially testing new paper (from different sources) but I don't use it as a tool to save test paper when making new prints. Color is so subjective, I don't find measurement tools particularly helpful in making aesthetic choices.
Douglas Vincent that is now clear to me. Thanks for your reply and help!
right on
You make test prints with 8x10 paper with a larger final print. How do you calculate/compensate for the exposure times when the head is higher on the actual print?
Rene, I spot metered light values for my enlarger at different heights. From there the conversion calculations are pretty easy. Enlargements to standard sizes are a 1.65x increase in exposure. But the prints are almost always tweaked - they open up at larger sizes and I find my exposures decrease slightly (in relative terms).
Also, now, if I'm confident in the image, I'll start directly with 16x20s. Or I'll make 8x10 sections of a 20x24 image. It's a little quicker as I'm now focused on making larger images. Cheers!
@@zenfoto6428 thanks. Do you use a standard light meter placed at easel level? Can you share your calculator?
Rene, I spot metered the light (on the easel's center) with no light head filtration and recorded the exposure values (EV) applying standard photographic exposure adjustments (i.e. an EV change of -1 would mean an additional stop of exposure) to my calculations.
I miss Cibachrome , coff coff gag ... well not that much , very surprised you are still using it as the paper did not last very long as a rule, never much more than 12 months for me even when refrigerated.
Wish it was still made though.
I've been printing B+W for years and recently wanted to get into colour printing. Now you tell me positive colour printing paper no longer exists. Kodak or Fuji never developed a positive colour paper? Will you go to C-Type and shoot colour negative film once your stock has run out?
The dye destruction process, of which Cibachrome and Ilfochrome is, was actually invented by Eastman Kodak. They abandoned the process and went with a reversal process and invested heavily into type C prints instead. They felt that the cost of the dye destruction process was too high. Perhaps they were correct as both Cibachrome and Ilfochrome became discontinued.
Beautiful! Strictly analogue printing is the only real thing. Sadly, apart from hand printing like you do, it is very rare nowerdays. I only know 3 labs in Germany that still do it with analogue minilabs from the late 90´s.
Hi Vincent,
Can you still find the development for Cibachrome? Thank You
Howw has the Ilforchrome been going?
8:00 unique watermark XD wow, nice
Why do you work in positive transparency? Afaik, color negative sheet film and paper is still in production, right?
Did you watch the video? The short answer is I love Cibachrome, its unique characteristics, and the positive transparency process. Negative based prints (C-prints) have a very different aesthetic.
@@zenfoto6428 that comment made the two questions seem related when I didn't mean them to (I mean why do analog enlargement and film at all when digital is so much easier amirite?)
What I meant to ask was if there was something been inherit to color positive or just aesthetic reasons? Unfortunately it's kinda hard to tell aesthetic differences through TH-cam (and my lack of experience) although I can't disagree with the results.
The second question was just general curiosity
@@AMTunLimited Cibachrome printing is the only way to directly print from color positive to photographic paper. The paper itself is unique in that the color is actually built into the paper. For various reasons, a well printed Cibachrome has a luminosity and depth that's rather unique to photographic print making. So, yes, there's inherent capability and aesthetic that factor in my decision to use it. If you can ever see the large format work of Christopher Burkett in person (where do you live?), you might better understand.
Your question about the "easiness" of digital is really a philosophical one. I print my Icons of Agriculture series on an Epson 9900 at home. I utilize image processing tools to achieve the aesthetic I want in a way that could not be replicated in the darkroom. Believe me I've tried. I find the digital process, while powerful and appropriate to my intention, it still does not carry quite the magic of working with your hands in the tactile medium of the darkroom. Engaging in any activity that demands both a mental and physical attention to detail, with the possibility of total failure, serves, at least for me, to elevate the process of creativity and life itself. Those tactile, in the moment, fully attentive experiences is what I live for. Make any sense?
Would I be able to buy some Ilfochrome paper from you?
Would you print other people's negatives for money?
Hi, what color developer you use? Do you have recept of it? I cant finde P5 developer recept or simular for ilfochrome to prepere myself(((
老哥长得好像列宁！！！
So.. there isn't a way to find the same Ilfochrome paper today? That's so sad!!!
That is one expensive print! Pretty interesting.
What chemicals do you need for Ilfochrome?
Vedat, the chemistry for Ilfochrome is specific. There is a Developer, Bleach and Fixer. The Bleach is proprietary to the medium and only made by special order in large quantity.
Simple color photo developing?
Do you still have the ability to make these prints?
losing the magic of seeing the image appear on paper?
You can't do that with color paper anyway, it has to be done on coplete darkness since the paper is panchromatic (sensible to all light including red).
You may not poo poo digital photography, but you certainly pee pee it.
You're probably right Abigail. At the time, 5 years ago, I was wholly emotionally invested in my massive commitment to Cibachrome and the tradition of handmade darkroom prints. I still fundamentally value them in a way that's different from digital photography and pigment printing. But I've wholeheartedly embraced digital photography for my Icons of Agriculture work. My vision there is something that can't directly be achieved in the darkroom. Though, what I'm currently most excited about is outputting some of those digital files to film and printing them in the darkroom. It's a fusion of mediums. And that's a lot of fun. Cheers.
When you think of it digital killed of so much of photography history and pleasures. Not to mention the company's that made all the gear used in this video. A crying shame. The world is doomed.
masochism