Our mind has a tendency to have false memories of us thinking it before when we hear something smart and agree with it. But, of course, it's not always true.
He's illuminating, in a rational way, thoughts and ideas and conclusions we all had. But we are generally good at pushing them aside or to the back of our minds. "Conspiracy" brings them up front and makes them inarguable.
It’s a horrifying book that pierces your very soul, and once it gets under your skin there’s no way of getting it out. But yes, it doesn’t really tell you anything that you don’t already know. And if you’re right about the writing style being intentionally jarring, I think that was a courageous move for Ligotti which I quite admire.
Im jumping into an adders nest here, perhaps, as while I admire Ligotti, I am not an anti-natalist. Yet I have to push back regarding this notion that "we all" have ideas like Ligotti, Zapfe, Benetar... I think Ligotti makes an excellent point regarding genetics playing a role in our attitude towards such things. Some peoples brains are inherently pessimistic, others optimistic.
That. That the book doesn't tell you something you don't already know. That. I've given this book to other people and they either get it or are offended by it. Great in depth review, thank you.
Great review. I also loved the book, and I am about to read it for the second time. It made me feel less insane and alone in the sense that it agreed to a large extent with my stance on life.
Great review, best ive heard. For me Schopenhauer is the ultimate, really final word in pessimism and philosophy, im glad he mentioned him, but sad Schopenhauer is out of fashion these days.
Couldn't get through it even once, since I mostly agree at an intellectual level, not at a spiritual level. How has Ligotti managed to write this horror masterpiece is beyond me.
I think everyone who has read the book will agree that there's no going back. Once you're aware, you can't turn it off anymore and everyday things seem to lose meaning. I think all of us are at some point in time aware of this but we just push it back down because we just don't wanna cope with the idea that we may be totally alienated from nature. Anyway, that's just my take.
Oh, I totally agree with that. The book doesn’t teach you anything you don’t already know, it just brings it out in the open so you have to acknowledge it.
I personally struggle to understand how life having no inherent meaning is automatically a bad thing. Or, as some claim, horrifying. Thinking that life being meaningless is negative isn’t an objective fact, it’s a subjective reaction to the fact. Life has no meaning. Ok, I can accept that this is probably true. My next question is, “so what?”
I'm reading this at the moment, it's very scary indeed. Not something to read it you're feeling low. But don't you think it's ironic how fearful we feel of thinking about life as devoid of all mean. The very fear we feel is just another example of how we are imprisoned by our consciousness.
The fear and suffering itself have inherent meaning. So long as that exists, life cannot be truly meaningless. Whether that is something desirable or not is a different issue altogether.
Really enjoyed this in depth analysis whilst having your own views on the whole thing. Too many people blindly follow it word for word or read it to constantly try to debunk everything. I do follow this book but I don't think people should act like some sort of messiah trying to "enlighten" everyone to follow. I recently read a book that Ligotti commented on. It's naturally a very dark topic. "Every Cradle Is A Grave" by Sarah Perry. Very rational and interesting read on antinatalism and suicide.
Yes, I agree with most things in this book, but I also realize that I don’t have to agree with everything. I sometimes get criticised for pointing out that you can enjoy life. I think a cult has formed around this philosophy, and the cultists don’t like it when you disagree with their messiah, T. Ligotti.
@@AuthorJamesFlynn agreed. I have discussions with the about it and to be honest i can be considered one of these Ligotti cultists as I implant it as a creed creed me, simply because it helps me survive mentally as weird as that may sound. I do believe people miss the point of the book if they criticise you for still enjoying life after having read the book. I thought you pointed it out very well in your verdict. Everything is subjective, in the end these cultists are stuck in the same life trap as everyone. Everyone just uses those 4 coping mechanisms which is perfectly fine. You're stuck here anyway, so do what you like. I also believe there is little to be gained having a discussion when one is not open to the mind set of the other. I like this book as Ligotti writes cosmic horror and this work of non fiction invokes the same kind of dread and it feels more real. It burrows deep inside and envelops you slowly. I noticed with some discussions with people who never read it, you plant a seed in people. You spread this "disease" of consciousness further. That's what I absolutely like about this book as a form of horror.
Rather than human consciousness being the tragic misstep, rather it is all consciousness. Trillions of suffering beings, struggling to survive and coming to painful deaths.
This book is not disturbing at all. What is disturbing is society, capitalism, taxes, consumerism, gurus etc. If you are not depressed at some point in life you are not sane.
Hi James, recent subscriber. Really enjoy your content - it is unique to say the least. I have yet to read the book but issue I take w/ the author is the notion that consciousness was a mistake - that is all semantics. If you believe in Darwinian evolution, then all progress is the result of mistakes - if it does not make the animal fitter for survival it will go extinct. Indeed, it is our consciousness that has allowed us to reign supreme over the animal planet. Indeed, one can say that consciousness and the human brain is the highest form evolution has attained to date and biology's crown jewel.
I personally found the book very funny at times. It took pessimistic ideas and presented them in an entertaining way. There's a lot to chew on, but it's not the only book with philosophical ideas that has stuck with me long after I'd finished reading.
Fantastic in-depth analysis. I particularly enjoyed the final section where you summarise your thoughts on this book. Your observations about these ideas being subjective opinion and drawing comparison between the pessimism of Ligotti and the optimism of Dawkins is bang on. “I didn’t ask to be born, and all I can really do is my best” is actually a really healthy mindset to have. I have often have similar thoughts. Your unpretentious, straight talking and honest review style is really refreshing. I thoroughly enjoy it and will be checking out your other reviews. It’s a sin that you don’t have a wider audience. I hope your channel takes off soon. You deserve it.
In the book he says something like that everything must end on optimistic note, otherwise it would be too depressing for people. You do the same thing in this video.
patrik Hezcko Yes, I do the same thing because that’s my opinion. I do not blindly follow what Ligotti says. I have my own mind, and I use it. There are too many sheep out there who follow his words like cultists.
THE NIGHTMARE BOX sounds very much like a re-tread of an Algernon Blackwood story called (I think) THE MAN WHO FOUND OUT. A good dose of some of the episodes of WAKING COSMOS---the non-interview ones, like A LIVING UNIVERSE might act as an antidote---or at least a counterpoint----to Ligotti-HPL-ism (tho I'm a fan): These are discussions about the evolutionary nature of it all, meaning this "terrible" place we find ourselves in may only be a stage in a long process of perfecting itself. The ideas, based primarily in physics and the study of consciousness, are smart and worth being exposed to, if nothing else. Thanks for the talk! (I guess I won't add, "cheers"!) ;-7
I really enjoyed your review here. I found myself greatly comforted by Ligotti's book since I have always been surrounded by Optimists and Stoics who drove me nuts. Like you, I am enamored by the dark honesty presented in the book. I got into personality theory for a while as a hobby, and through that I came to believe that we're creatures of both nature and nurture; we are puppets, but we can tug on our own strings to some extent due to our self-awareness. So I feel Ligotti's view was incomplete, but I suppose that he would have considered nurture to be pointless or merely a product of the puppetry around us. I am content to accept Optimism and Pessimism as possible valid views; one will be more 'true' to an individual than the other - it's a matter of personal experience, knowledge, and belief. I definitely feel a strong catharsis when I see such well-articulated Pessimist views - they make me feel more sane and allows me a more complete perspective on the whole of human experience.
It’s good to know that there are other people out there who are willing to acknowledge the awful truth. If you’re surrounded by staunch optimists, it can feel as though you’re in a lonely nightmare. I combine pessimism and stoicism. I acknowledge that existence is inherently flawed, and from that my meaning and purpose in life is to deal with the pain of life as heroically as I can.
My conclusion was that death is beautiful, and that we have to wait for it while we enjoy life. It also made me an antinatalist, I don't want to have kids but I don't give a shit about other people bringing more people to this world. One of the best things you can do to relieve yourself and others from suffering is letting them live their way, always according to justice. The truth of life, the scientific truth that there is nothing after our lives might be quite depressing for a lot of people but don't worry about it. The truth is insignificant. It changes nothing. The problem of meaning also changes nothing. There's no meaning in life? Who gives a shit? Nobody, no one, not one soul gives a shit about the metaphysical meaning of life. Choose your own meaning, e.g. "I want to learn French and to be able to read french poetry"; "I want to start a family"; "I want to meet the love of my life". Choose what you want, you're going to die, remember it. Do what you want but live according to justice. I'm sorry to be so "authoritarian", I don't like giving orders. I accept all your comments and reading recommendations. I don't speak English very well, I assume you might have seen it by now. Have a great day, don't waste your time in problems that don't matter to us, insignificant creatures.
Even if u didn't like and understand the book please don't breed. The problem here is that u are still seeing the book in perspective of anthropocentrist, u don't take into account the whole suffering of all sentiment beings, so yes, life IS suffering for those who are empaths and aware of all the suffer out there, in nature, far away from our eyes. Gary Inmendham excellently explains efilism and why the life in not worth living , not my life but life in general.
The most enlightening messages are always "Dark". So the truth is dark and the lie is light. I'm confused. I knew I should of came to earth as a squirrel all I would have to do is chase nuts and avoid moving cars and do the same thing tomorrow. Human beings lives are just to damn complicated.
I loved this review. Very in depth. I even watched it twice. It makes me want to revisit this book again. It covers a lot of different ground. Yes, I’m a little bit unsure what I think about Ligotti’s stance on determinism and free will and all this «puppet» stuff, that is the part I don’t know about, but a lot of this other stuff I feel is hitting close to home, and I realize how much it has influenced my views years back. Especially the parts with Zapffe. Ironically I used to be a big fan of Richard Dawkins too back in the day, so I can see the interesting conflict between someone like him and Ligotti battling it out if consciousness is a good or a bad thing. Perhaps its a two-edge sword. There’s a psychologist Colin Feltham, who has written books on the topic of Depressive Realism which explores even further the idea that depressed people »lose» some of that optimism bias and starts seeing things more «soberly» (aka «real») when at least mildly depressed. A lot of psychological experiments has backed this up. Love his writings. Tali Sharot also has a good book on Optimism Bias which touches upon the same thing. I find the idea that pessimism and pessimists might be one of the most oppressed type of people in society very interesting, and rings true. I didn’t remember that part of the book, but its a quite a novel idea. You asked for people who killed themselves reading Ligotti. Wilhelm Alexander. He still has a channel here on TH-cam, and he used to upload Ligotti related material. He was a huge Ligotti fan. He killed himself. Supposedly threw himself in front of a train 7 years ago. This said it would be just speculation saying he did that just because he read Ligotti, as things like that are usually more complex than just reading a book. However, he had a pretty dark view of life, I’ve heard from people who knew him. I’d be curious what you’d make of Peter Wessel Zapffe’s essay «The Last Messiah», which inspired a lot of Ligotti’s book. Its not that long, but I find it very intriguing. Its only like 7-8 pages long or so. So if you want to continue down on this track - I’d recommend that one for sure. I’d also be curious how you would compare David Benatar’s book with this one.
Andreas Moss Thanks so much for watching, Andreas. The puppet analogy makes sense if you give it time to sink in. It’s about determinism, not choosing to be born, and having genetic traits that govern us. And yes, Ligotti admits this view is down to opinion. And the idea that depressives see a more realistic view of things is one of the strongest, and scariest, aspects of the book, I think. It reminds me of an article I read once about a phenomenon called ‘Pessimists Accuracy’, or something like that. I’m not going to read any more pessimistic stuff for a while. You need to balance this kind of literature out, for the sake of your sanity.
Leo Tolstoy had 13 children despite of his anti-natalist views. Was wondering if his strong views on the subject mainly formed toward the end of his life maybe?
@@AuthorJamesFlynn Thanks, James. I always felt so alienated from this world due to my philosophy of existence mainly developed in my childhood. Every time I tried to bring it up I was immediately pushed to a corner even though nobody could rationally argue the core of the belief. First time I came across “Better never to have been” by David Benatar I was totally over the moon knowing there are other individuals out there having the same views. Now finding out about Ligotti’s book and your channel it’s like Christmas coming early.
Aleks Martini Glad to be of service. Just remember: if you’re having certain thoughts or feelings, it’s pretty much a given that thousands of others are too. Most people just try to hide it-or deny it.
I am enjoying your more detailed review. I would like to share a couple of things you may find interesting. I think the human collective has a need to distort, adulterate and sugar coat almost everything reality shows us to make it more tolerable. This includes religions and mythologies, the essence of which, as far as I can tell, is often very simple and arguably firmly grounded in reality. For example this quote from Guatama Buddha: "Nanda, I do not extol the production of a new existence even a little bit; nor do I extol the production of a new existence for even a moment. Why? The production of a new existence is suffering. For example, even a little bit of vomit stinks. In the same way, Nanda, the production of a new existence, even a little bit, even for a moment, is suffering. Therefore, Nanda, whatever comprises birth, [namely] the arising of matter, it's subsistence, it's growth, and emergence of feeling, conceptualization, conditioning forces, and consciousness, [all that] is suffering. Subsistence is illness. Growth is old age and death. Therefore, Nanda, what contentment is there for one who is in the mother's womb, waiting for existence?" ('The Sutra on Entry into the Womb'. 2014. [the oldest version of the sutra that survived is a Chinese translation by Dharmaraksa from 281 or 303]) Also the following link that demonstrates similar sentiments through out Christianity... www.reddit.com/r/antinatalism/comments/6h1g5p/christianity_and_antinatalism/
Really enjoying this read. What a fabulous book. I quite get what Logatti means by “puppets”. I think his view is best expressed by the old woman in Voltaire’s Candide where the false love of life is so deeply and persistently coded in the subconscious mind that one might be able to observe it but paralysed to act upon it: “A hundred times I wished to kill myself, but my love of life persisted. This ridiculous weakness is perhaps one of the most fatal of our faults. For what could be more stupid than to go on carrying a burden that we always long to lay down? To loathe, and yet cling to, existence? In short, to cherish the serpent that devours us, until it has eaten our hearts?” Source: Better never to have been
I've read it a couple of times when life has been tough and it provides some sort of solace. However, I can't take Ligotti seriously as a philosopher. He clearly hasn't grappled with much of the corpus of Western philosophy and is content to write a sort of performance piece.
the book is truly entertaining as well very thought provoking in many ways and places. However it remains within a general occidental limit - even as it destroys the myths very well. yes it does discuss Buddhism and Pessimism in a comparative sense. Thanks for this discourse! and what's wrong with puppets...
So far as I can see, there are two satisfactory answers to the reality of meaninglessness (ie nihilism): one is Camus and Absurdism, which is to acknowledge life is meaningless, to not try and stamp on a false meaning (religion, nation, etc), and to simply enjoy the absurd spectacle of existence for what it is, nothing more, nothing less, for the brief time we have to do so, and to take pleasure in our puppet rebellion against the chaotic forces of life, meaningless though it might be ("One must imagine Sisyphus happy.") The second possible answer comes from Max Stirner, who says that once we acknowledge life is meaningless, there's no reason we shouldn't spend all our days pursuing our keenest pleasure for its own sake, making our art for its own sake, and denying anyone's standards except our own - since life is nothing, we are the creative nothing out of which we ourselves, as creators, create everything.
Even though consciousness became our own enemy it has introduced us a voluntary “Exit Button”, Leo Tolstoy’s third solution. . Something that animals are unaware of. I really would like to know your opinion on that. My theory is nature knew consciousness and self-awareness might becomes so painful to actually push us to the edge hence as part of the whole package we also became aware of self-deliverance. Do you think it’s nature’s mercy?
Aleks Martini No, because you describe nature as though it has a mind and it plans things. Nature is blind and unthinking. As for suicide: if you have the courage for it, fair play to you.
The meaning of life: KEEP YOURSELF OCCUPIED. the way to be unhappy: KEEP DWELLING ON MORTALITY AND THE FACT THAT REALITY IS HARSH. give me free will any day
Hi, James. I’m about 1/2 way through and definitely like the depth you are getting to here. Two things to mention, and these are very minor. First, I think the way to pronounce Zapffe is zap-fa. Second is that War and Peace has ... 587,287 words!! omfg... Anyway, I’m looking forward to listening to the rest.
So, I finished the review. You did a great job hitting the main points of the book, and you seem to agree with them. So I don’t understand how you end on such a strangely positive note. Aren’t you just doing what the book highlights, closing your eyes to the utter pointlessness of existence and saying “life is alright”?
ItStands2Reason Well, I seem to hold the very rare view that life doesn’t need to have a point. I’m okay with the prospect of having a pointless life with no meaning; I just think it’s amazing that we exist. The main problem with life, as far as I’m concerned, is the prospect of ageing and death, not the pointlessness of it. I personally think that it’s possible to enjoy this life to a certain extent.
ItStands2Reason I think I agree with that. Although it’s worth remembering that circumstance plays a part in this argument. The common, working class individual definitely shouldn’t reproduce, but a wealthy individual in a decent country could be forgiven for doing so.
@@brahimsaad6287 Well, excluding the idea that a god created us, the human race is here due to evolution by natural selection. Evolution is a blind process with nobody controlling it, so therefore you could say that we evolved by accident. A common phrase in the book is: ‘Consciousness-nature’s biggest blunder’. And that’s what it means.
Consciousness and the development of the analog mind ushered in our role as human RNA in the new technological expression of life. We (RNA) build tools from information inside tech cells. It had great survival value but if we are equipped mentally to do technology then we are also equipped to see our own deaths.Those chimps that can do technology and deny death have an advantage. But alas we can also recognize that we have become a Megacancer within the ecosystem and use the same mental death denial system to cover it up.
I notice in your otherwise excellent review of Ligotti’s book, you quickly pass over Ligotti’s “critique” of transhumanism. But what would be more in keeping with Ligotti’s programme than using technology to cure all the ails which befall the human condition?
It's been a while since I've watched this video, so I can't remember exactly what I said. However, after reading several of Ligotti's books, I get the impression that he thinks transhumanism is plausible. Ligotti is aware that humans are comprised of many separate parts (like puppets), and replacing some or all of those parts with tech could work, according to him. Thank you for watching.
Maybe he’s right maybe not there is always a question that I have with many philosophies and if philosophers had therapy or if science and the brain studied more deeply in like the 1700s how would philosophies change I personally do not wanna read the book even though my OCD tries to tempt me but I just don’t want to commit suicide it happened to a loved one and I seen the effects of what I did to the family
I have suffered with OCD too, intrusive thoughts mainly. I wouldn't recommend it if you're feeling very low, but if you feel like your ready for more scary exposure then it definitely is a good one, All the best x
We would practice absurd devotion to the absence of ourselves and the meaningless of our existence. We would collectively mourn and collectively laugh at how pathetic and messed up we are.
Really loved his thoughts on this book. I have much the same view as the author and James and like to hear people who know the truth speak. So many people say Jesus is the truth but I have found that to be untruthful. I also liked when he said not killing yourself because of what you know is okay. I still can't quite figure out some things about evolution and consciousnesses such as why when we know it produces so much suffering do our stupid bodies still require meat. Some people say plant proteins are enough, but they simply are not for how hard or hearts have to work. So why can't our bodies really evolve past killing animals as our consciences have? That is the million dollar question for me. I also liked the authors view of the earth going as well. I have always thought humans should go and the earth and animals and everything else should stay but that was a comforting viewpoint for the earth to take some responsibility as well. Kind of going down with the ship. I'm for sure going to get the book! Also going to try to find more things of James' to read.
I disagree. Consciousness is not a mistake; its source cannot even be discovered, whereas all other biological components have been located ....My hypothesis is that consciousness is a field that we cannot see with human eyes, and our brain filters it, depending on the level of maturity of the brain. Take for example radio waves or xrays...... You can't see the motion, yet the field is there, and an instrument filters it for information. I'm with Eienstien in that there is a lot more going on that we cannot see; we are limited to our five senses. I am not in denial here; I totally get what the author is saying, and I've been greatly depressed about life. However, I am also science motivated (have a science degree in nursing), and an open mind that explores other possibilities for how we are evolving and tapping into sources that separates us from the rest of the animals.
LUXE BEAUTY Yes, I agree that there are probably other dimensions that we cannot perceive due to our limited senses. However, that doesn’t mean that consciousness wasn’t an accident. There are various things that a cockroach cannot comprehend, does that mean a cockroach wasn’t an accident?
@@AuthorJamesFlynn Cockroaches are most definitely accidents, lol! So, if we evolved to the point of consciousness (which my personal belief is that consciousness is not an accident, but inherent in all things at different levels), and the universe does not need us, then why does the universe exist? It doesn't need to exist for any purpose, yet it does exist, therefore it must serve some purpose. I don't think higher intelligence is just an accident; it's not a default; entropy is.
Great video. Really, really well done. Thank you. Great insight & breakdown. Here’s my two cents on our current predicament. Keen to hear any thoughts or rebuttal to it please. Cheers. I’m fairly confident that Prime Source Sentience is infinitely & eternally lonely, loveless, confused & bored. Hence this whole Maya/matrix & endless games of delusion, distraction & dreaming. Source would rather experience conflict, drama, tragedy & loss then experience never ending “All Oneness” or aloneness. Could this be possible? Most people have an installed system that deceptively says “show me & tell me anything but the harsh & hopeless Truth” haha. Perhaps this a protection mechanism from the tragic & lonely nature of base reality. Do you think that the origin point of awareness could be a hellish experience of infinite & eternal lovelessness, loneliness, boredom, terror & despair? I do. If this hypothesis is true then all of creation & “reality” is just a temporary & futile means of conscious awareness self~hypnotising, deluding & distracting itself from its unending nightmare of lonely lovelessness. Just my thoughts for the morning ;) Finally…word on the grapevine is that Prime Awareness is truly immortal & eternal & unable to delete itself & end it’s torment. Thus creating & engaging in Maya & its endless illusions, distractions, addictions & violence. The suffering of impermanence & loss is, at least according to good ol’ lonely Prime Awareness, the lesser of two evils 😈 Could this be true? If so I have great empathy for the lonesome Alpha & Omega. Maybe this why the few people who reach enlightenment are said to not talk about it. Perhaps they have nothing (good) to say…. “If you have nothing good to say, then don’t say anything at all” It is what it is ;) “As above, so below, as within, so without, as the universe, so the soul…” Hermes Trismegistus
Regarding your last points in your verdict, I think you may find inmendham's ideas on consciousness compelling, maybe. Strictly Philosophy th-cam.com/video/z4YqlRyd-DY/w-d-xo.html The not so hard problem of consciousness th-cam.com/video/srJyDaLy_Ok/w-d-xo.html
There are also some things I also disagree for example the but the hole Pessimism is somehow maginelized. Using you're example there are many forms of nihilistic film's and TV shows that have a persimistic tone and are quite well regarded. Come and see, death of a salesman and all is quiet in the wester front
JoeyJoJo Shabado No, it’s not Joey. Just remember that it’s still possible to enjoy life. Life may be a horror show, but horror shows can be fun! And also, nobody can actually prove that it is a horror show.
@@AuthorJamesFlynn true I never really see a horror show from it and try to help out as much as I can so I kinda feel you can make a better day and lessen pain
I often say we live in a Kafkaesque existentialist Absurd world where we are going to die and nothing we have done or worked for means anything...it can be quite liberating in a way because all the things we stress and worry about don't matter anyway so we should just stop bothering so much...or maybe take Monty Python's approach to the absurd meaninglessness just find the humour and laugh at it all.
I can't listen anymore, JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T FIND AY MEANING IN LIFE , DOESN'T JUSTIFY SAYING LIFE HAS NO MEANING , DEFINE MEANING.MAYBE SOME PEOPLE DON'T NO WHERE TO LOOK FOR " MEANING " .
Also, I'm struggling with this view. If life is not meaningful as ligotti and other philosophers claim. If it truly has no meaning, why do we always search for meaningfullness? When we believe we've done something meaningful, is that just the illusion of meaningfulness? It just seems like Ligotti is over projecting a little bit when he claims out existence has not meaning.
Life has no meaning in the sense that we’ve randomly evolved, and then we die. People find that hard to accept, so they try to create meaning. But yes, I suppose it’s artificial meaning.
@@AuthorJamesFlynn I spoke to someone else about this, and they said that Ligotti just thinks we find meaning in things so that we can cope. That everyone is just coping, that does make sense. But yes artificial meaning makes a lot of sense.
It will change your life. Certainly changed mine. It's one of those books that should really come with a warning. Much like Benatar and Ligotti's work, it can have a severely traumatic effect on the reader's mental wellbeing. Some people are unable to read the entire book because it makes them feel ill.
Oh you are anti-religion, yet you claim to disagree with Ligotti on what you yourself claim to irrefutable and undeniable, that's inconsistent mate, you adhering to procreation or even naive optimism binds you in as much mythology as religious people, for more light into this, read the existentialists.
Very pedestrian review. No mention of A. Schopenhauer, who said it all in early 19th century. ( ‘An author called Leo Tolstoy ? That is like saying a boxer named Muhammad Ali !)
Maybe it is, but I think it’s debatably true. I, personally, am of the opinion that human life is inherently a bad thing, but I understand that other people would disagree.
😂 obviously without God life has no meaning but if you turn off the noise and the propaganda of corporate capitalism in psychologist nakademia and you search your intuition and your dreams you will see that life is far from meaningless❤❤❤ search inside of you for the truth😮 sit in the Sun for an hour and Earth your bare feet do a 24-hour fast good luck on your journey fellow human❤ blessings to all from Toronto
The wisdom of Buddhist thought is that if one manages to cease desiring, ipso facto, no more desires. Ergo, no more suffering. Schopenhauer echoes this.
James Flynn : Why did Siddhartha jettison his wife, son and palace ? Because he desired release from sickness, old age, and death. Nothing gets done. save and except by accident, without desires.
Wow, I have juts witnessed how horrific the devil truly is. This is the greatest piece of horror ever created. I believe that determinism and free will are true at the same time. And I believe in the God of the bible. This is monstrous...
@@shatteredteethofgod look if we really want to get philosophical, then we know "nothing" other than our own existence, which is undeniable. Also, it is true that the world is wicked. But that is beacuse the soul of man rejects God, by commiting horrific acts.
@@shatteredteethofgod Also, you think that believing in God, is believing in the impossible. But that is objectively not true. As you believing that God is impossible is just as crazy of a claim as me believing in God by your logic.
The God of the Bible you believe in? That the creator of the whole Universe made a flat earth c 6,000 yrs ago in 6 days and the Sun goes around the Earth? Humans males are made in the form of this God named El ( oddly the canninite supreme god of a small culture on a little corner of a dry Near East ) . This El god made a human man out of mud, a woman out of his rib? And this rib worm met a talking Snake (!!) who talked her into eating some fruit, she talked dumb mud man into eating it too: so we all have sinned and must die? This El god changed his name to Yahweh and chose the Jews as his favorite humans , telling them to slaughter the native tribes and sometime keep the little girls as sex slaves & steal the land? I don’t think you are very smart or paying attention.
No one in his right mind, with any moral awareness would create a world like ours. The 'God of the Bible' did. Talking about 'monstrous'! Concerning free will: compatibilism is just a way of getting around the problem by defining free will differently, in a way that leaves the concept completely meaningless (-> Sam Harris, 'Free Will').
Wow. Your outlook on existence is bleak. I also, am against religion, however am not against following Christ and knowing The Most High God. I challenge you (and anyone else) to reserve the judgment that you know everything, suppress pride, ego and preconceptions and come to the truth. Humans aren't evolved from primates, we are created using intelligent design. Please consider the preponderance of evidence all around us that's contradictory to your worldview. This is intended as a friendly rebuke, done out of love. Please dont think otherwise
This probably the worst book on philosophy. I want to read it but was turned off by this review. LIFE is a gift from our creator. You wanna live your life on pessimism? By all means go ahead, but don't kill or hurt others. The universe was CREATED and you are lucky enough to live a small life. Love your self, love your family. This is book is nothing but ridiculous. Mocking life? Come on!
@@AuthorJamesFlynn ok so if there's no creator, how do you explain how the universe was created? Even renowned scientists came to acknowledge that there MUST be a creator bec of the existence of the universe.
"Life was a gift from our creator" Nothing written after that statement has any value in the real world unless that statement is first retracted. Enjoy the "gift" of the dying process I guess. Civil wars look to be on the cards pretty soon aswell. One more aspect of the "gift" of life.
All of these ideas have occurred to me at one time or another, And I generally agree.
Aith Jawcraig Yes, I generally agree. Although I still think we should try to make the most of life.
@@AuthorJamesFlynn just so long as that doesn't entail making more of it
Our mind has a tendency to have false memories of us thinking it before when we hear something smart and agree with it.
But, of course, it's not always true.
@laughingbat1695 I don't know whether that's true or not, but I used to think so 😉
He's illuminating, in a rational way, thoughts and ideas and conclusions we all had. But we are generally good at pushing them aside or to the back of our minds. "Conspiracy" brings them up front and makes them inarguable.
It’s a horrifying book that pierces your very soul, and once it gets under your skin there’s no way of getting it out.
But yes, it doesn’t really tell you anything that you don’t already know.
And if you’re right about the writing style being intentionally jarring, I think that was a courageous move for Ligotti which I quite admire.
Im jumping into an adders nest here, perhaps, as while I admire Ligotti, I am not an anti-natalist. Yet I have to push back regarding this notion that "we all" have ideas like Ligotti, Zapfe, Benetar...
I think Ligotti makes an excellent point regarding genetics playing a role in our attitude towards such things. Some peoples brains are inherently pessimistic, others optimistic.
to have this Death Drive and paradoxically an insatiable urge for life is so frustrating and irreconcilable
That. That the book doesn't tell you something you don't already know. That. I've given this book to other people and they either get it or are offended by it. Great in depth review, thank you.
S Moss Yes. I think most of us know this stuff already, but we sweep it under the carpet for various reasons. Thanks for watching.
Great review.
I also loved the book, and I am about to read it for the second time. It made me feel less insane and alone in the sense that it agreed to a large extent with my stance on life.
Great review, best ive heard. For me Schopenhauer is the ultimate, really final word in pessimism and philosophy, im glad he mentioned him, but sad Schopenhauer is out of fashion these days.
I’ve never read Schopenhauer, but I plan to in the future.
"The book is disturbing... I've read it twice". Nice!
Francisco Flores Maybe I’m a glutton for punishment.
Couldn't get through it even once, since I mostly agree at an intellectual level, not at a spiritual level. How has Ligotti managed to write this horror masterpiece is beyond me.
I think everyone who has read the book will agree that there's no going back. Once you're aware, you can't turn it off anymore and everyday things seem to lose meaning. I think all of us are at some point in time aware of this but we just push it back down because we just don't wanna cope with the idea that we may be totally alienated from nature. Anyway, that's just my take.
Oh, I totally agree with that. The book doesn’t teach you anything you don’t already know, it just brings it out in the open so you have to acknowledge it.
I personally struggle to understand how life having no inherent meaning is automatically a bad thing. Or, as some claim, horrifying.
Thinking that life being meaningless is negative isn’t an objective fact, it’s a subjective reaction to the fact.
Life has no meaning. Ok, I can accept that this is probably true. My next question is, “so what?”
I'm reading this at the moment, it's very scary indeed. Not something to read it you're feeling low. But don't you think it's ironic how fearful we feel of thinking about life as devoid of all mean. The very fear we feel is just another example of how we are imprisoned by our consciousness.
The fear and suffering itself have inherent meaning. So long as that exists, life cannot be truly meaningless. Whether that is something desirable or not is a different issue altogether.
Really enjoyed this in depth analysis whilst having your own views on the whole thing. Too many people blindly follow it word for word or read it to constantly try to debunk everything. I do follow this book but I don't think people should act like some sort of messiah trying to "enlighten" everyone to follow.
I recently read a book that Ligotti commented on. It's naturally a very dark topic.
"Every Cradle Is A Grave" by Sarah Perry. Very rational and interesting read on antinatalism and suicide.
Yes, I agree with most things in this book, but I also realize that I don’t have to agree with everything.
I sometimes get criticised for pointing out that you can enjoy life. I think a cult has formed around this philosophy, and the cultists don’t like it when you disagree with their messiah, T. Ligotti.
@@AuthorJamesFlynn agreed. I have discussions with the about it and to be honest i can be considered one of these Ligotti cultists as I implant it as a creed creed me, simply because it helps me survive mentally as weird as that may sound. I do believe people miss the point of the book if they criticise you for still enjoying life after having read the book. I thought you pointed it out very well in your verdict. Everything is subjective, in the end these cultists are stuck in the same life trap as everyone. Everyone just uses those 4 coping mechanisms which is perfectly fine. You're stuck here anyway, so do what you like. I also believe there is little to be gained having a discussion when one is not open to the mind set of the other.
I like this book as Ligotti writes cosmic horror and this work of non fiction invokes the same kind of dread and it feels more real. It burrows deep inside and envelops you slowly. I noticed with some discussions with people who never read it, you plant a seed in people. You spread this "disease" of consciousness further. That's what I absolutely like about this book as a form of horror.
Thanks, James. I will check this one out.
Rather than human consciousness being the tragic misstep, rather it is all consciousness. Trillions of suffering beings, struggling to survive and coming to painful deaths.
This was a very refreshing take on the book and the topic; really enjoyed the depth you went into.
Thanks for watching, Jan.
This book is not scary, disturbing or shocking at all. It's 100% truth. Life should not exist!
The truth is shocking and disturbing. They are not mutually exclusive.
Nah Christ died for your sins
I would say there's a fifth self deception. It states that suffering is always a choice.
This book is not disturbing at all. What is disturbing is society, capitalism, taxes, consumerism, gurus etc. If you are not depressed at some point in life you are not sane.
I agree. The sane ones are the insane ones.
Hi James, recent subscriber. Really enjoy your content - it is unique to say the least. I have yet to read the book but issue I take w/ the author is the notion that consciousness was a mistake - that is all semantics. If you believe in Darwinian evolution, then all progress is the result of mistakes - if it does not make the animal fitter for survival it will go extinct. Indeed, it is our consciousness that has allowed us to reign supreme over the animal planet. Indeed, one can say that consciousness and the human brain is the highest form evolution has attained to date and biology's crown jewel.
I personally found the book very funny at times. It took pessimistic ideas and presented them in an entertaining way. There's a lot to chew on, but it's not the only book with philosophical ideas that has stuck with me long after I'd finished reading.
Fantastic in-depth analysis. I particularly enjoyed the final section where you summarise your thoughts on this book. Your observations about these ideas being subjective opinion and drawing comparison between the pessimism of Ligotti and the optimism of Dawkins is bang on.
“I didn’t ask to be born, and all I can really do is my best” is actually a really healthy mindset to have. I have often have similar thoughts.
Your unpretentious, straight talking and honest review style is really refreshing. I thoroughly enjoy it and will be checking out your other reviews. It’s a sin that you don’t have a wider audience. I hope your channel takes off soon. You deserve it.
Great conclusions James. Fascinating book, eating it up right now.
In the book he says something like that everything must end on optimistic note, otherwise it would be too depressing for people. You do the same thing in this video.
patrik Hezcko Yes, I do the same thing because that’s my opinion. I do not blindly follow what Ligotti says. I have my own mind, and I use it. There are too many sheep out there who follow his words like cultists.
@@AuthorJamesFlynn agree
@@AuthorJamesFlynn Isn't that applicable to other influences as well?
“It’s very dark, it’s very dark indeed...” Martin from Game On
Daniel Bell Wow. I remember that show. How 90’s.
THE NIGHTMARE BOX sounds very much like a re-tread of an Algernon Blackwood story called (I think) THE MAN WHO FOUND OUT.
A good dose of some of the episodes of WAKING COSMOS---the non-interview ones, like A LIVING UNIVERSE might act as an antidote---or at least a counterpoint----to Ligotti-HPL-ism (tho I'm a fan): These are discussions about the evolutionary nature of it all, meaning this "terrible" place we find ourselves in may only be a stage in a long process of perfecting itself. The ideas, based primarily in physics and the study of consciousness, are smart and worth being exposed to, if nothing else.
Thanks for the talk! (I guess I won't add, "cheers"!)
;-7
I’ll have a look at that story. Thanks.
I really enjoyed your review here. I found myself greatly comforted by Ligotti's book since I have always been surrounded by Optimists and Stoics who drove me nuts. Like you, I am enamored by the dark honesty presented in the book.
I got into personality theory for a while as a hobby, and through that I came to believe that we're creatures of both nature and nurture; we are puppets, but we can tug on our own strings to some extent due to our self-awareness. So I feel Ligotti's view was incomplete, but I suppose that he would have considered nurture to be pointless or merely a product of the puppetry around us.
I am content to accept Optimism and Pessimism as possible valid views; one will be more 'true' to an individual than the other - it's a matter of personal experience, knowledge, and belief.
I definitely feel a strong catharsis when I see such well-articulated Pessimist views - they make me feel more sane and allows me a more complete perspective on the whole of human experience.
It’s good to know that there are other people out there who are willing to acknowledge the awful truth. If you’re surrounded by staunch optimists, it can feel as though you’re in a lonely nightmare.
I combine pessimism and stoicism. I acknowledge that existence is inherently flawed, and from that my meaning and purpose in life is to deal with the pain of life as heroically as I can.
Well said.
Excellent review and break down James 👍🏻
Thanks for watching.
My conclusion was that death is beautiful, and that we have to wait for it while we enjoy life. It also made me an antinatalist, I don't want to have kids but I don't give a shit about other people bringing more people to this world. One of the best things you can do to relieve yourself and others from suffering is letting them live their way, always according to justice. The truth of life, the scientific truth that there is nothing after our lives might be quite depressing for a lot of people but don't worry about it. The truth is insignificant. It changes nothing. The problem of meaning also changes nothing. There's no meaning in life? Who gives a shit? Nobody, no one, not one soul gives a shit about the metaphysical meaning of life. Choose your own meaning, e.g. "I want to learn French and to be able to read french poetry"; "I want to start a family"; "I want to meet the love of my life". Choose what you want, you're going to die, remember it. Do what you want but live according to justice. I'm sorry to be so "authoritarian", I don't like giving orders. I accept all your comments and reading recommendations. I don't speak English very well, I assume you might have seen it by now. Have a great day, don't waste your time in problems that don't matter to us, insignificant creatures.
Juan Edu Great comment, Juan. I agree to a certain extent. There’s no meaning, but there doesn’t need to be. What a crazy universe!
@@AuthorJamesFlynn I forgot to say it was a great video, James! Good job!
Even if u didn't like and understand the book please don't breed. The problem here is that u are still seeing the book in perspective of anthropocentrist, u don't take into account the whole suffering of all sentiment beings, so yes, life IS suffering for those who are empaths and aware of all the suffer out there, in nature, far away from our eyes. Gary Inmendham excellently explains efilism and why the life in not worth living , not my life but life in general.
The most enlightening messages are always "Dark". So the truth is dark and the lie is light. I'm confused.
I knew I should of came to earth as a squirrel all I would have to do is chase nuts and avoid moving cars and do the same thing tomorrow. Human beings lives are just to damn complicated.
I loved this review. Very in depth. I even watched it twice. It makes me want to revisit this book again.
It covers a lot of different ground. Yes, I’m a little bit unsure what I think about Ligotti’s stance on determinism and free will and all this «puppet» stuff, that is the part I don’t know about, but a lot of this other stuff I feel is hitting close to home, and I realize how much it has influenced my views years back. Especially the parts with Zapffe. Ironically I used to be a big fan of Richard Dawkins too back in the day, so I can see the interesting conflict between someone like him and Ligotti battling it out if consciousness is a good or a bad thing. Perhaps its a two-edge sword.
There’s a psychologist Colin Feltham, who has written books on the topic of Depressive Realism which explores even further the idea that depressed people »lose» some of that optimism bias and starts seeing things more «soberly» (aka «real») when at least mildly depressed. A lot of psychological experiments has backed this up. Love his writings. Tali Sharot also has a good book on Optimism Bias which touches upon the same thing. I find the idea that pessimism and pessimists might be one of the most oppressed type of people in society very interesting, and rings true. I didn’t remember that part of the book, but its a quite a novel idea.
You asked for people who killed themselves reading Ligotti. Wilhelm Alexander. He still has a channel here on TH-cam, and he used to upload Ligotti related material. He was a huge Ligotti fan. He killed himself. Supposedly threw himself in front of a train 7 years ago. This said it would be just speculation saying he did that just because he read Ligotti, as things like that are usually more complex than just reading a book. However, he had a pretty dark view of life, I’ve heard from people who knew him.
I’d be curious what you’d make of Peter Wessel Zapffe’s essay «The Last Messiah», which inspired a lot of Ligotti’s book. Its not that long, but I find it very intriguing. Its only like 7-8 pages long or so. So if you want to continue down on this track - I’d recommend that one for sure. I’d also be curious how you would compare David Benatar’s book with this one.
Andreas Moss Thanks so much for watching, Andreas. The puppet analogy makes sense if you give it time to sink in. It’s about determinism, not choosing to be born, and having genetic traits that govern us. And yes, Ligotti admits this view is down to opinion. And the idea that depressives see a more realistic view of things is one of the strongest, and scariest, aspects of the book, I think. It reminds me of an article I read once about a phenomenon called ‘Pessimists Accuracy’, or something like that. I’m not going to read any more pessimistic stuff for a while. You need to balance this kind of literature out, for the sake of your sanity.
For a better understanding of determinism, check out Robert Sapolsky’s new book on the subject.
Leo Tolstoy had 13 children despite of his anti-natalist views.
Was wondering if his strong views on the subject mainly formed toward the end of his life maybe?
Aleks Martini I really have no idea. I don’t know much about him other than what’s stated in this video.
@@AuthorJamesFlynn Thanks, James. I always felt so alienated from this world due to my philosophy of existence mainly developed in my childhood.
Every time I tried to bring it up I was immediately pushed to a corner even though nobody could rationally argue the core of the belief.
First time I came across “Better never to have been” by David Benatar I was totally over the moon knowing there are other individuals out there having the same views.
Now finding out about Ligotti’s book and your channel it’s like Christmas coming early.
Aleks Martini Glad to be of service. Just remember: if you’re having certain thoughts or feelings, it’s pretty much a given that thousands of others are too. Most people just try to hide it-or deny it.
@@AuthorJamesFlynn that all started after he turned 50 with 14 children behind
www.brainpickings.org/2014/06/03/tolstoy-confession/
You should read his Confession to understand his perspective on this. Hello from Moscow, Russia :)
I am enjoying your more detailed review. I would like to share a couple of things you may find interesting. I think the human collective has a need to distort, adulterate and sugar coat almost everything reality shows us to make it more tolerable. This includes religions and mythologies, the essence of which, as far as I can tell, is often very simple and arguably firmly grounded in reality.
For example this quote from Guatama Buddha:
"Nanda, I do not extol the production of a new existence even a little bit; nor do I extol the production of a new existence for even a moment. Why? The production of a new existence is suffering. For example, even a little bit of vomit stinks. In the same way, Nanda, the production of a new existence, even a little bit, even for a moment, is suffering.
Therefore, Nanda, whatever comprises birth, [namely] the arising of matter, it's subsistence, it's growth, and emergence of feeling, conceptualization, conditioning forces, and consciousness, [all that] is suffering.
Subsistence is illness. Growth is old age and death. Therefore, Nanda, what contentment is there for one who is in the mother's womb, waiting for existence?"
('The Sutra on Entry into the Womb'. 2014. [the oldest version of the sutra that survived is a Chinese translation by Dharmaraksa from 281 or 303])
Also the following link that demonstrates similar sentiments through out Christianity...
www.reddit.com/r/antinatalism/comments/6h1g5p/christianity_and_antinatalism/
Really enjoying this read. What a fabulous book. I quite get what Logatti means by “puppets”.
I think his view is best expressed by the old woman in Voltaire’s Candide where the false love of life is so deeply and persistently coded in the subconscious mind that one might be able to observe it but paralysed to act upon it:
“A hundred times I wished to kill myself, but my love of life persisted. This ridiculous weakness is perhaps one of the most fatal of our faults.
For what could be more stupid than to go on carrying a burden that we always long to lay down? To loathe, and yet cling to, existence? In short, to cherish the serpent that devours us, until it has eaten our hearts?”
Source: Better never to have been
I’m glad you’re enjoying the book. Be careful with it, though.
I've read it a couple of times when life has been tough and it provides some sort of solace. However, I can't take Ligotti seriously as a philosopher. He clearly hasn't grappled with much of the corpus of Western philosophy and is content to write a sort of performance piece.
the book is truly entertaining as well very thought provoking in many ways and places. However it remains within a general occidental limit - even as it destroys the myths very well. yes it does discuss Buddhism and Pessimism in a comparative sense. Thanks for this discourse! and what's wrong with puppets...
How about Philip Mainländer?
I might look into him, but I'm having a break from pessimistic stuff.
Thanks for your review. You've motivated me to reread it.
You should!
Thank you for all your hard work.
Thank you for watching, my friend.
ligotti does say that people avoid or hate the truth about the darkness of life. so people will avoid the truth in every way possible,,,, Amen,,,,,,
So far as I can see, there are two satisfactory answers to the reality of meaninglessness (ie nihilism): one is Camus and Absurdism, which is to acknowledge life is meaningless, to not try and stamp on a false meaning (religion, nation, etc), and to simply enjoy the absurd spectacle of existence for what it is, nothing more, nothing less, for the brief time we have to do so, and to take pleasure in our puppet rebellion against the chaotic forces of life, meaningless though it might be ("One must imagine Sisyphus happy.") The second possible answer comes from Max Stirner, who says that once we acknowledge life is meaningless, there's no reason we shouldn't spend all our days pursuing our keenest pleasure for its own sake, making our art for its own sake, and denying anyone's standards except our own - since life is nothing, we are the creative nothing out of which we ourselves, as creators, create everything.
Aren’t they both the same? They both mean that we should enjoy life regardless of the meaninglessness.
Even though consciousness became our own enemy it has introduced us a voluntary “Exit Button”, Leo Tolstoy’s third solution. . Something that animals are unaware of. I really would like to know your opinion on that.
My theory is nature knew consciousness and self-awareness might becomes so painful to actually push us to the edge hence as part of the whole package we also became aware of self-deliverance.
Do you think it’s nature’s mercy?
Aleks Martini No, because you describe nature as though it has a mind and it plans things. Nature is blind and unthinking. As for suicide: if you have the courage for it, fair play to you.
The meaning of life: KEEP YOURSELF OCCUPIED.
the way to be unhappy: KEEP DWELLING ON MORTALITY AND THE FACT THAT REALITY IS HARSH.
give me free will any day
Hi, James. I’m about 1/2 way through and definitely like the depth you are getting to here. Two things to mention, and these are very minor. First, I think the way to pronounce Zapffe is zap-fa. Second is that War and Peace has ... 587,287 words!! omfg...
Anyway, I’m looking forward to listening to the rest.
ItStands2Reason Oh, I see. I won’t be reading War and Peace anytime soon then!
So, I finished the review. You did a great job hitting the main points of the book, and you seem to agree with them. So I don’t understand how you end on such a strangely positive note. Aren’t you just doing what the book highlights, closing your eyes to the utter pointlessness of existence and saying “life is alright”?
ItStands2Reason Well, I seem to hold the very rare view that life doesn’t need to have a point. I’m okay with the prospect of having a pointless life with no meaning; I just think it’s amazing that we exist. The main problem with life, as far as I’m concerned, is the prospect of ageing and death, not the pointlessness of it. I personally think that it’s possible to enjoy this life to a certain extent.
James Flynn
Okay, but would you at least admit we probably shouldn’t bring more life into this world?
ItStands2Reason I think I agree with that. Although it’s worth remembering that circumstance plays a part in this argument. The common, working class individual definitely shouldn’t reproduce, but a wealthy individual in a decent country could be forgiven for doing so.
Cannot find your book Conservation in print. Interested to read it.
I’ve sent you an email, John.
Did you ever end up reading that book on the evolution of deception, and lies? If so was it good/ worth the time to read
No, I haven’t read it. But I did recently read The Human Predicament by David Benatar. There will be a review of that in the coming weeks.
@@AuthorJamesFlynn groovy, looking forward to it.
Very good explanation!
👻Logotti is accomplished and abept author ,i really like his work and you channel too 🙃✌
20:00 in he said we don't a say in who we are and what we are , I believe that we do have a say in who we are and what we are .
Only to a certain extent.
Planning to buy it.
Should i have a thorough knowledge about philosophy to understand this book?
No, that’s not necessary. It would help just to have an understanding of our evolutionary past, and the fact that we evolved by accident.
@@AuthorJamesFlynn i don't understand what you meant by "Evolved by accident" what makes you think so?
@@brahimsaad6287 Well, excluding the idea that a god created us, the human race is here due to evolution by natural selection. Evolution is a blind process with nobody controlling it, so therefore you could say that we evolved by accident.
A common phrase in the book is: ‘Consciousness-nature’s biggest blunder’. And that’s what it means.
Consciousness and the development of the analog mind ushered in our role as human RNA in the new technological expression of life. We (RNA) build tools from information inside tech cells. It had great survival value but if we are equipped mentally to do technology then we are also equipped to see our own deaths.Those chimps that can do technology and deny death have an advantage. But alas we can also recognize that we have become a Megacancer within the ecosystem and use the same mental death denial system to cover it up.
porkberries Interesting point, Pork Berries. I suppose the only way to solve this is to colonise other planets and cure the disease of ageing.
I notice in your otherwise excellent review of Ligotti’s book, you quickly pass over Ligotti’s “critique” of transhumanism. But what would be more in keeping with Ligotti’s programme than using technology to cure all the ails which befall the human condition?
It's been a while since I've watched this video, so I can't remember exactly what I said. However, after reading several of Ligotti's books, I get the impression that he thinks transhumanism is plausible. Ligotti is aware that humans are comprised of many separate parts (like puppets), and replacing some or all of those parts with tech could work, according to him.
Thank you for watching.
Maybe he’s right maybe not there is always a question that I have with many philosophies and if philosophers had therapy or if science and the brain studied more deeply in like the 1700s how would philosophies change I personally do not wanna read the book even though my OCD tries to tempt me but I just don’t want to commit suicide it happened to a loved one and I seen the effects of what I did to the family
JoeyJoJo Shabado I’m sorry to hear that. If you’re prone to depression, I wouldn’t recommend reading it.
I have suffered with OCD too, intrusive thoughts mainly. I wouldn't recommend it if you're feeling very low, but if you feel like your ready for more scary exposure then it definitely is a good one, All the best x
Hi James, what about doing a review of The Human Predicament?
I might read that. But I presume that it’s very similar to this book.
@@AuthorJamesFlynn It’s not as dark.
@@pavelhanek9790 I’ve just finished reading The Human Predicament. A review is in the pipeline.
Will you be making a book review on Livingstone's "Why we Lie?"
Tommy Phillips I think I will, Tommy. It’s not at the top of my reading list, however, so it might be a while.
Stephen Routledge Telling the truth about Why We Lie?
Stephen Routledge How confusing. Haha. It’s on my reading list, but it’s not very high up. It’s something I might read in the future.
Great work mate. Ta.
Thank you.
I’ve got another review for this book scheduled for the end of this month. Stay tuned!
Omg! Tolstoy was a Christian Anarchist! I love him, since I became one.
What about stoicism? Existentialism?
We would practice absurd devotion to the absence of ourselves and the meaningless of our existence. We would collectively mourn and collectively laugh at how pathetic and messed up we are.
Really loved his thoughts on this book. I have much the same view as the author and James and like to hear people who know the truth speak. So many people say Jesus is the truth but I have found that to be untruthful. I also liked when he said not killing yourself because of what you know is okay. I still can't quite figure out some things about evolution and consciousnesses such as why when we know it produces so much suffering do our stupid bodies still require meat. Some people say plant proteins are enough, but they simply are not for how hard or hearts have to work. So why can't our bodies really evolve past killing animals as our consciences have? That is the million dollar question for me. I also liked the authors view of the earth going as well. I have always thought humans should go and the earth and animals and everything else should stay but that was a comforting viewpoint for the earth to take some responsibility as well. Kind of going down with the ship. I'm for sure going to get the book! Also going to try to find more things of James' to read.
Glad you enjoyed the video.
Did you ever read about gnosticism and archons?
I disagree. Consciousness is not a mistake; its source cannot even be discovered, whereas all other biological components have been located ....My hypothesis is that consciousness is a field that we cannot see with human eyes, and our brain filters it, depending on the level of maturity of the brain. Take for example radio waves or xrays...... You can't see the motion, yet the field is there, and an instrument filters it for information. I'm with Eienstien in that there is a lot more going on that we cannot see; we are limited to our five senses. I am not in denial here; I totally get what the author is saying, and I've been greatly depressed about life. However, I am also science motivated (have a science degree in nursing), and an open mind that explores other possibilities for how we are evolving and tapping into sources that separates us from the rest of the animals.
LUXE BEAUTY Yes, I agree that there are probably other dimensions that we cannot perceive due to our limited senses. However, that doesn’t mean that consciousness wasn’t an accident. There are various things that a cockroach cannot comprehend, does that mean a cockroach wasn’t an accident?
@@AuthorJamesFlynn Cockroaches are most definitely accidents, lol! So, if we evolved to the point of consciousness (which my personal belief is that consciousness is not an accident, but inherent in all things at different levels), and the universe does not need us, then why does the universe exist? It doesn't need to exist for any purpose, yet it does exist, therefore it must serve some purpose. I don't think higher intelligence is just an accident; it's not a default; entropy is.
@ Luxe Beauty. This comment blew my mind when I read it last night. Wish i was as articulate as this.
you should read the corporeal fantasy to, by martin butler
I’ll put that on my list. Thanks.
You should do a better never to have been follow up :)
@@pavelhanek9790 I'm going to do a 5 Short Stories for Pessimists video soon.
@@AuthorJamesFlynnCool
This book makes TOO MUCH sense !
It’s a great book.
I recommend this glorious sound journey as a soundtrack to the book: th-cam.com/video/0vntWG7ogIs/w-d-xo.html
Great video.
Really, really well done.
Thank you.
Great insight & breakdown.
Here’s my two cents on our current predicament.
Keen to hear any thoughts or rebuttal to it please. Cheers.
I’m fairly confident that Prime Source Sentience is infinitely & eternally lonely, loveless, confused & bored. Hence this whole Maya/matrix & endless games of delusion, distraction & dreaming. Source would rather experience conflict, drama, tragedy & loss then experience never ending “All Oneness” or aloneness.
Could this be possible?
Most people have an installed system that deceptively says “show me & tell me anything but the harsh & hopeless Truth” haha. Perhaps this a protection mechanism from the tragic & lonely nature of base reality.
Do you think that the origin point of awareness could be a hellish experience of infinite & eternal lovelessness, loneliness, boredom, terror & despair?
I do.
If this hypothesis is true then all of creation & “reality” is just a temporary & futile means of conscious awareness self~hypnotising, deluding & distracting itself from its unending nightmare of lonely lovelessness.
Just my thoughts for the morning ;)
Finally…word on the grapevine is that Prime Awareness is truly immortal & eternal & unable to delete itself & end it’s torment.
Thus creating & engaging in Maya & its endless illusions, distractions, addictions & violence. The suffering of impermanence & loss is, at least according to good ol’ lonely Prime Awareness, the lesser of two evils 😈
Could this be true? If so I have great empathy for the lonesome Alpha & Omega.
Maybe this why the few people who reach enlightenment are said to not talk about it. Perhaps they have nothing (good) to say….
“If you have nothing good to say, then don’t say anything at all”
It is what it is ;)
“As above, so below, as within, so without, as the universe, so the soul…”
Hermes Trismegistus
It's not life that is a horror show😅 it's capitalism thank you❤
Consciousness is not a mistake if you believe in quantum mechanics. The wave function needs to be observed to collapse.
None of the ideas in this book are that original. Schopenhauer effectively said everything in this book over 200 years ago.
Ligotti is the better writer though.
Regarding your last points in your verdict, I think you may find inmendham's ideas on consciousness compelling, maybe.
Strictly Philosophy
th-cam.com/video/z4YqlRyd-DY/w-d-xo.html
The not so hard problem of consciousness
th-cam.com/video/srJyDaLy_Ok/w-d-xo.html
“You will live to see man made horrors beyond your comprehension”
There are also some things I also disagree for example the but the hole
Pessimism is somehow maginelized.
Using you're example there are many forms of nihilistic film's and TV shows that have a persimistic tone and are quite well regarded. Come and see, death of a salesman and all is quiet in the wester front
the 2nd time you red it it was less shocking, again, the dark nature of desensitization
I think I prefer absurdist to anti-natalist philosophy.
Great review. 👍
I would also highly recommend checking out Ernest Becker, if you haven’t already.
Take care
🙏
Do u follow Inmendham?
No, I'm afraid I don't.
Peter Zaffe is a Norwegian
Yes, and it's Zapffe. Pronounced Zap-fuh, as in, Nietzsche or Goethe.
Peter Zapffe was a Nowegian.
I got to stop looking at depressing stuff it’s not great for my mental health
JoeyJoJo Shabado No, it’s not Joey. Just remember that it’s still possible to enjoy life. Life may be a horror show, but horror shows can be fun! And also, nobody can actually prove that it is a horror show.
@@AuthorJamesFlynn true I never really see a horror show from it and try to help out as much as I can so I kinda feel you can make a better day and lessen pain
JoeyJoJo Shabado Yes, it’s possible to enjoy life.
The holiday analogy is nonsense. Mr. Death is very diligent, and does not sleep !
Okay. Give me your plane ticket, and I'll take your holiday for you. I promise I'll send you a postcard!
I often say we live in a Kafkaesque existentialist Absurd world where we are going to die and nothing we have done or worked for means anything...it can be quite liberating in a way because all the things we stress and worry about don't matter anyway so we should just stop bothering so much...or maybe take Monty Python's approach to the absurd meaninglessness just find the humour and laugh at it all.
Yeah, there are two ways of looking at it, I think. It can seem like a nightmare, or conversely, a kind of relief.
Relativism is a self refuting.
1000 words in War and Peace? Try half a million lol
Human beings have a higher level of consciousness. 🤔
Yes Zapffe had a long a fulfilling life but consciously chose not to have children.
12 is better than zero.
I can't listen anymore, JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T FIND AY MEANING IN LIFE , DOESN'T JUSTIFY SAYING LIFE HAS NO MEANING , DEFINE MEANING.MAYBE SOME PEOPLE DON'T NO WHERE TO LOOK FOR " MEANING " .
Also, I'm struggling with this view. If life is not meaningful as ligotti and other philosophers claim. If it truly has no meaning, why do we always search for meaningfullness? When we believe we've done something meaningful, is that just the illusion of meaningfulness? It just seems like Ligotti is over projecting a little bit when he claims out existence has not meaning.
Life has no meaning in the sense that we’ve randomly evolved, and then we die. People find that hard to accept, so they try to create meaning. But yes, I suppose it’s artificial meaning.
@@AuthorJamesFlynn I spoke to someone else about this, and they said that Ligotti just thinks we find meaning in things so that we can cope. That everyone is just coping, that does make sense. But yes artificial meaning makes a lot of sense.
25:25 five inches thick yet only a thousand words long? what is this, the Schrödinger's cat of books?
A minor slip of the tongue, Mr Spasticus. Could you find it in your heart to forgive me?
Well, if you do a review of _Hellstorm_ by Thomas Goodrich, I will forget this travesty ever occurred. Fair deal?
@@ArnoldTohtFan Hmmm. I don’t know.
It will change your life. Certainly changed mine. It's one of those books that should really come with a warning. Much like Benatar and Ligotti's work, it can have a severely traumatic effect on the reader's mental wellbeing. Some people are unable to read the entire book because it makes them feel ill.
Autisticus Spasticus I’ll put it on my list, but I can’t promise you anything right now.
Oh you are anti-religion, yet you claim to disagree with Ligotti on what you yourself claim to irrefutable and undeniable, that's inconsistent mate, you adhering to procreation or even naive optimism binds you in as much mythology as religious people, for more light into this, read the existentialists.
Very pedestrian review. No mention of A. Schopenhauer, who said it all in early 19th century. ( ‘An author called Leo Tolstoy ? That is like saying a boxer named Muhammad Ali !)
😂😂 watch the dogs playing in the dog park then explain to me again how life is suffering❤
Isn’t your conclusion that it’s “just an opinion” one of zapphes 4 methods to escape the truth? Lol
Maybe it is, but I think it’s debatably true. I, personally, am of the opinion that human life is inherently a bad thing, but I understand that other people would disagree.
But I also mentioned cryonics. Isn’t that a hopeful contradiction ?@@AuthorJamesFlynn
@@Fireneedsair When did you mention cryonics?
U mentioned it? Did u not ?@@AuthorJamesFlynn
@@Fireneedsair In the video? It’s been a long time since I watched it. If someone gets frozen, it’s a safe bet they enjoy life in some way.
😂 obviously without God life has no meaning but if you turn off the noise and the propaganda of corporate capitalism in psychologist nakademia and you search your intuition and your dreams you will see that life is far from meaningless❤❤❤ search inside of you for the truth😮 sit in the Sun for an hour and Earth your bare feet do a 24-hour fast good luck on your journey fellow human❤ blessings to all from Toronto
Puppets implies the existence of a puppet master, which seems to contradicts the idea that there is no "creator".
The puppet master in this scenario is blind evolution.
The wisdom of Buddhist thought is that if one manages to cease desiring, ipso facto, no more desires. Ergo, no more suffering. Schopenhauer echoes this.
Thanks for watching, Bernard. I'm glad you enjoyed the video. Have a great day.
Mr S Exactly.
James Flynn : Why did Siddhartha jettison his wife, son and palace ? Because he desired release from sickness, old age, and death. Nothing gets done. save and except by accident, without desires.
Bernard Liu Exactly. Nothing gets done without desires. That’s a criticism against Buddhism. I thought you were sticking up for it.
A 1,000, 000 yrs from now it will make no difference if nothing gets done . A life dies and rots . This stupid idea stuff needs to get done . None
Wow, I have juts witnessed how horrific the devil truly is. This is the greatest piece of horror ever created. I believe that determinism and free will are true at the same time. And I believe in the God of the bible. This is monstrous...
@@shatteredteethofgod look if we really want to get philosophical, then we know "nothing" other than our own existence, which is undeniable. Also, it is true that the world is wicked. But that is beacuse the soul of man rejects God, by commiting horrific acts.
@@shatteredteethofgod Also, you think that believing in God, is believing in the impossible. But that is objectively not true. As you believing that God is impossible is just as crazy of a claim as me believing in God by your logic.
@@shatteredteethofgod And so what point are you trying to make.
The God of the Bible you believe in? That the creator of the whole Universe made a flat earth c 6,000 yrs ago in 6 days and the Sun goes around the Earth? Humans males are made in the form of this God named El ( oddly the canninite supreme god of a small culture on a little corner of a dry Near East ) . This El god made a human man out of mud, a woman out of his rib? And this rib worm met a talking Snake (!!) who talked her into eating some fruit, she talked dumb mud man into eating it too: so we all have sinned and must die? This El god changed his name to Yahweh and chose the Jews as his favorite humans , telling them to slaughter the native tribes and sometime keep the little girls as sex slaves & steal the land? I don’t think you are very smart or paying attention.
No one in his right mind, with any moral awareness would create a world like ours. The 'God of the Bible' did. Talking about 'monstrous'! Concerning free will: compatibilism is just a way of getting around the problem by defining free will differently, in a way that leaves the concept completely meaningless (-> Sam Harris, 'Free Will').
Wow. Your outlook on existence is bleak. I also, am against religion, however am not against following Christ and knowing The Most High God. I challenge you (and anyone else) to reserve the judgment that you know everything, suppress pride, ego and preconceptions and come to the truth. Humans aren't evolved from primates, we are created using intelligent design. Please consider the preponderance of evidence all around us that's contradictory to your worldview. This is intended as a friendly rebuke, done out of love. Please dont think otherwise
How can I respect anything you say, when you disregard evidence so that you can believe in fairy tales?
@@AuthorJamesFlynn and he is telling u to supress pride , ego and preconceived notions.
This probably the worst book on philosophy. I want to read it but was turned off by this review. LIFE is a gift from our creator. You wanna live your life on pessimism? By all means go ahead, but don't kill or hurt others. The universe was CREATED and you are lucky enough to live a small life. Love your self, love your family. This is book is nothing but ridiculous. Mocking life? Come on!
Evidence is obviously not very important to you, then.
@@AuthorJamesFlynn ok so if there's no creator, how do you explain how the universe was created? Even renowned scientists came to acknowledge that there MUST be a creator bec of the existence of the universe.
USER_ DEV I can’t explain it, and neither can you. Claiming that a big imaginary friend in the sky made it is not a valid explanation.
USER_ DEV : Please read Dawkins, an eminent scientist, Arther Schopenhauer, David Hume, John Gray, etc.,and some Buddhist canons.
"Life was a gift from our creator"
Nothing written after that statement has any value in the real world unless that statement is first retracted.
Enjoy the "gift" of the dying process I guess. Civil wars look to be on the cards pretty soon aswell. One more aspect of the "gift" of life.
Spiritual Existence before the fall. The curse came and becoming mortal within the dimension of time ruled and regulated by the law of the finite.