You‘re absolutely right! There have to be bad luck currencies.. Did Ara Kara 20 times, no Sackbrood but 5 other Items I don‘t need 🤯🤯 50 gold at the end of the dungeon is freakin insulting. Now we can easily get 1k gold for repair. Wtf!!
If we can pick our key what will happen is early in the season you will get people doing them all for KSM but then later on people will only be running the same 2-3 keys to farm crests and you will see literally 0 groups for the other keys.
There are dungeons I legitimately don’t do even if it had a bis item because it sucks. I run dungeons for my enjoyment, if I’m grinding bis I’m grinding bis but if I hate 1 dungeon I’m never going to push that dungeon ever. Choosing keys just lets me do fun dungeons, like I loved academy in DF, and would constantly Que for it because it was fun.
@@greentang6375 the thing is typically everyone likes the same dungeons, not the hard ones. So as I said there wouild be basically no groups for these dungeons ever.. and if you needed something from it or were late to the season and needed KSM you would be waiting forever to get into said dungeon or maybe might never get in at all.
@@artradies that would likely never get filled. It's already hard enough to find a Grim Batol right now for instance but people have to do them to push their keys etc so it keeps some in LFG still. With a pick your own system it would literally be all the same few keys after the first couple weeks.
This is actually an argument for being able to give proper feedback to blizz. If they see 1-3 dungeons never getting any runs maybe they would actually make an effort into making the dungeon fun.
@@MarcelianOnlineyes bro. Currently PvP is in ruins. The entire reward system is redundant be it for players like myself who are RBG Heros or any casual who just wish to get some mogs. I wish Blizz would hear us someday and act
The other day I had a bug where that alt Z interaction happened where nothing was on your screen. Except I couldn’t bring it back so I continue to tank the dungeon and it was the best experience I had a long time. I saw things I’ve never seen before, it was so visually pleasing and immersive. I thought about that and if there was a way to make it less about looking at data and more about immersive gameplay, I think that would be a good thing for the game. It is beautiful, but people are so caught up looking at Data points that it goes to the wayside
this is why i made a dynamically hiding UI this season. with all the pop culture stuff in wow, i never thought it could be a game i could be immersed, but i was wrong. It's beautiful, and you can totally feel like yu're in the world. I wish they would lean into that. I'm sure a lot more people would play just to live in the world and not even touch end game, as some already do
I also got some Ideas to make pugging a lot more bearable 1.We need some sort of M+ trial for People to be able to enter at all, Something like proving Grounds that shows you all the Affixes this Season and how your class can or cant deal with them. 2.At Season Start you should have to do each Dungeon 1 Time on M0, so you at least have a minimal understanding of the Dungeon 3.Instead of Keystones, use the Delve level System where you have to do +2 first to Unlock +3 and so on and you just can choose them from a Menu.
I was thinking exactly you're last point, if you need to do T2 then T3 would be greyed out, then T3 unlocks and you do that to unlock T4 and so on. Would be way better and solidify the mechs in people's minds, there needs to be a way of getting more DPS players to get groups though
Let this be very clear, I want key depletion to be removed, but I can give you the reason why Blizzard placed it in the game and kept it in the game for all this time, They said this in the official Blizzard interview with Ian Hazzikostas: "The depletion of mythic keys exist so lower keys are still in rotation, if there is no key depletion then lower keys don't exist anymore over time as with every weekly vault players get a mythic plus key equal to their latest m+ they ran previous week." That is what Blizzard said, no one has offered a solution for that issue yet.
In a world where keystones don't deplete, I could see the difficulty selector becoming like delves. Wanna run a NW 5? Just go there with your group and do it, assuming you've cleared a 4 or higher for that dungeon already as the leader/m+ dungeon starter.
The solution is that people play alts. Not all my characters will be able to do a +10, some may be at a +5, while others are starting at +2. My character running a +10 is never going to go back to do a +2, depletion or not, so there is no need for depletion.
@15:20 I just want to point out that this point would be true for Monk's Mystic Touch rather than Battle Shout. Battle Shout is one of the very few redeeming qualities of Warrior, the buff will make it so that every single Strength or Agility class regardless of damage type will have 5% more AP.
The entire mythic system is a great in theory, terrible in practice scenario. it's punishment for the sake of punishment on all accounts. On top of the mythic io score which breeds elitism furthering the tilt and divide between old and new players. This game is supposed to bring people together and I would like to see it do that again.
honestly, 10man mythic or like 12man would be a godsend for so many people including me. Its incredibly difficult scheduling 20 people of similair skill and motivation and 1 person missing kills the raid night.
+1, just make it flexible like any other difficulty. If they want it for RWF then just implement it so it becomes flexible after some time of the race being over. Would love to play it without it being so much of a chore to get 20 ppl to do so
Honestly, simply accumulating all the items that are wiped from the non looting nature of m+ would help so much with the repair costs. Normal/heroic dungeons have so much gold, reagents, greens, etc drop from the mobs that are completely wiped from m+ that simply having those appear in the final chest would help so much in terms of funding repair bills at the very least.
Auto loot would be amazing! Star Wars galaxies has had it forever. Don't make me click on anything to get my loot. With a huge radius for ranged players.
Spec difficulty fix: Make a billion mechanics that 1 shot dps if they fail. Make heal/tank deal with constant and less spiky mechanics. If they get 1 shot: blame yourself (less toxic) If they die slower (healer sucks and know its him (cant blame dps)
I have been ranting about this since 10 years ago and I think we all have had similar thoughts. There just comes a point where you have to decide when to stop and just accept you are not going to get that item you want. I used to raid with guilds that were pushing for being within a week or so of world first kill (cutting edge etc). I quit raiding for this reason. I didn't want to wipe to the same boss 100+ times before seeing one item drop I'd use. Now I play more casually but delves have me feeling a bit of the same lately. I have cleared literally 300+ delves (got the account 250 delves achievement several weeks ago) across 6 characters at around 619 ilvl now. I have yet to see some of the items ONCE. Some of the ones I wanted the most I only got a track lower from the vault on a week I didn't do 8 delves. I don't play any of these characters now. I do alts to around 610 ilvl and stop before more of this kicks in. I know I'd LIKE to play more but without something deterministic I'm not going to suffer beyond 300 delves. And delves are fun for me. Something chill I do after work. But I'd rather do something else or at most play an alt. You know the WORST part of all this for every player: we know we won't even use any of this stuff I February. We will be going through it again. Now that, THAT, is the demotivator for me.
The biggest problem for 90% of the player base is the toxic m+ cummunity. So how to solve it in three steps 1. Put in a autoque without a timer too compensate for not having a meta 4000+ rating group (keep the old system for the ones enyoing it) 2. Make it so you can replace ppl leaving the non timed ques 3. Lower the punishment from mechanics. If you cant do the content with the worst setup there is... its bad game design. Bonus: Give us the TInker with tank/heal/dps/support spec
I would like to thank you for taking the time to present all of these suggestions for the M+ players like me :) They have to introduce tokens ffs, it's a no brainer, it would help a lot. Also, having tanks and healers feel like doing a 2nd job instead of fun is the biggest issue here I think. My VDH is at 2600 io and it's really hard to stay alive, no mistakes allowed or I"m dead on the floor in 0.5sec. Dont think it's helping having more tanks. FInally, in Gw2, doing the same as M+ is the most profitable thing you can do in the game (fractals). I dont understand why it would not be the same thing.
But they’re also losing out on long term sales because it might keep is around in the short term, but within a couple of months, ppl grow fed up and frustrated. So having these changes would boost their revenue quite a bit imo
I would love to WANT to play more instead of feel like I have to. It’s a mistake to make the game feel like a chore, when really part of me loves mythic+, but it’s just bogged down with so many dumb decisions.
Right and wrong. Imagine alts were easily gearable and not restricted through weekly vaults (if you play m+ only) so many people would play many different alts which also means more time played
I just literally agree with everything. M+ is so flawed, I'm already burnt out by this time. But still, with such small improvements you mention in the video, it could be a million times better. Devs! Listen to this. Listen to the constructive critics. Implement them. Win-win. Thanks Marcelian for sharing this!
"why don't we have this stuff in the best MMO ever made?" we do we do have this stuff in FFXIV it's also in Warframe it's called a pity system, where if RNG fails you, you can still get what you want by grinding out a currency you get from the same activity
Love the loot ideas, the depletion idea, and the mechanics ideas! No RNG on dungeon would have most people farming the fastest/easiest one over and over for crests. Leads to burnout, makes it harder for non-meta to find keys when they will already be more rare. IMO of course, seems to makes sense though. Also, I freaking love BRD raid... I run it even while saved just fun lol
Don’t you dare dumb down my healers. I love the challenge. We can create difficulty with our messing with dps. Force tanks to taunt mobs that lose agro- make mobs have the trinity system- tanks attacking dps causing a dps loss- healing mobs, and melee that attack the healer…
preach! Just to add on: I believe key depletion needs to be only partially removed, for example you still need to complete it within an hour and bellow 50 deaths (just some arbitrary caps). If they were to remove it completely, people will just restart the dungeon over and over after a single dead/wipe and kick the scapegoat of turn creating a very toxic trend. Alt gearing should be free (only valorstone costs) up to heroic as long as one character in the warband has completely upgraded said slot. There's no reason for low keys (up to +4 or so) to not be in LFG queuing like heroics. High keys should offer some sort of deterministic raid item tokens, for example the weekly vault from timing a +12 could have 1 token, farm 4 and you can buy a mythic raid trinket/weapon/item with effect, etc from the current raid, vault from +8~10 from heroic raid, vault from +5 normal raid, etc. In the same way, raid vault should offer dungeon currency, similar to DF season 4, but "not as free". It's such an easy, fair and elegant solution so people can focus on the content they want to focus on instead of trying to artificially boost raid numbers as they did in DF... every healer should have either, bres or lust, PI always has been a nightmare to balance, mages and warlocks are witness of that... leavers need to be punished, if someone leaves a group in the middle of a dungeon ON THEIR OWN, or DC/AFK for 20% of it, they get, no loot and vault that week and a big fat deserter-like debuff in their complete warband that stacks and lasts for a whole season so everybody can read it, also they wouldn't be able to enter keys of the same lvl than the one they left until they 'redeem their sins' completing a determined number of lower lvl keys.
Normally content creators are just shitting about every game, but you sir, are right on point. I couldn't agree more with you on each and every point you made!
I feel like they definitely need to stop depleting keys in mythic plus. And also, they absolutely need to add a permanent deterministic loop system into the game now and moving forward forever. Meaning, if you do a piece of content, you get rewarded badges that you can buy any piece of gear you would like. End of storyyou can still have world quest, and even have them drop a piece of gear that will save you from having to use a token.
Absolutely agree with everything you said, as someone who dosent have time for raids m+ is my end game content and right now its pissing me off due to how much time i spend either looking for groups or failing keys and having to go back to 8s and 9s
My personal thoughts: - Get rid of key depletion, 100% - Get rid of affixes (knowing the mechs well but on top of "also, grab these purple orbs while doing them, quick!" - I'd like to see the timer go but maybe having a sense of urgency helps the flow and speed of the dungeon, so feel either way about that - Stop forcing players to focus so much on popping defensives for survivability, don't mind difficulty but let healers take back control of survivability of the group - MTTA - Make Tanks Tanky Again
No affixes, timers, or actually requiring players to use their full kits? It sounds like you just don't like the concept of m+ at all. It's supposed to be different from standard dungeons and also much harder. Stop trying to turn mythic + into something it's not. I'm 100% on board with the depletion and making tanks actually tanks though. Tanks should 100% be in control of their deaths. This also makes smart play and rotation for a tank matter.
@@XAn0nymousX0tbh with you M+ is what I play WoW for, I don't really raid and I do a delve or 2 on occasion, but for me it's all about M+ The dropping timer is maybe a little extreme, I can deal with it. The flow of a dungeon run with a team that know what they're doing is a great feeling. I said the point about affixes because sometimes it feels more of a nuisance rather than an enjoyable challenge - it already requires more skill to survive in the higher keys (as it should) but now "catch/destroy these blue orbs also" I don't feel adds much to the experience
Your tips were spot-on, and I would appreciate Blizzard addressing them. However, I remain skeptical about their commitment to enhancing the "quality of life" for players after so many years.
Simple get rid of the timer, keep the trash counter, add currency for each boss that you kill that you dont get loot from and you can buy loot from a vendor from said dungeon
Freaking gear vendors is EXACTLY what this damn game needs. I've done tons of delves and dungeons with the same items dropping over and over... It's ridiculous. Just add tokens and let us pick gear for the work we have done!
While I don't mythic raid or anything fancy, I do still feel the effects of rng and the lack of vendors not just having items that I can get currency for.. and currency not being streamlined for buying in general... like I feel the messiness. Everything feels like it's cobbled together with duct tape and had that one part you don't touch at all because it's not worth it. I really wish after all these years, 20 in fact, that they would take this a lot more seriously for the fans. Treat fans like valued players of a community rather than cash grabs. Experiment but don't hold on to things the community hate and struggles with. I really think that after all this time it would have been nice for them to take FFXIV as a sort of a more serious competitor in certain areas. While story wise and stuff it runs differently - they would take better care to balance specs, raids, and gear for even a casual person like me. I'd run Savages for fun, and any class I picked felt solid enough, felt like no matter the composition of the raid, each one had mechanics that worked and could help. Mechanics of fights were intricate, fun to learn, fun to dodge, fun to experience. WoW's just feel... hallow. Like pulling bosses just feels like DPS checks only and little mechanics, like you were saying about interrupts and certain classes not being as good to use. WoW could be so much more interesting, could be more mature, easy to understand, easy to get into and learn classes, and feel pride in your class regardless of specs, if they would be more serious about what players need at this point.
New player here, and i got 2.3k in the season so far. Im not renewing my subscription but if most of your suggestions get on, i probably will. You addressed the main issues in the game, well done!
Yes all good points, but also remove the lock on mythic raids for easier pugging and remove the 20 player requirement. Completely revamp the pvp reward structure, add new modes and deal with the que times. And heavily remove button bloat for healers especially, no one wants 30+ keybinds
thinking that pulling more mobs vs fewer that have mechanics is probably an impulse thought. without anything to kick and just pull the whole dungeon shit would get stale/boring after 1 week. i'd actually prefer to bring back hard cc where you're required to use hex/poly and shit and be more thoughtful than just zug zug -> mash keyboard -> wipe -> manchildren saying "you suck" -> group disband
This hit home. I honestly might quit the game just because they still haven’t stopped key depletion. Blizzard we aren’t stupid, we know that you just want us to have tons of time sink which is fine, but with key depletion it’s just outright ridiculous. Keep time sinks out of pushing high keys or doing high level content. How are we supposed to prog keys when we have to literally push the key back up to the level we need and on top of that it’ll probably be a complete other dungeon we don’t even get it for. So stupid. Just listen to the damn community
I agree. Sometimes it feels like the developers hate the players, and are trying to torture us as punishment. IMHO the best questing system was on Argus when operating from the Exodar. We earned veiled argunite. Then we went to a vendor and bought the item we needed instead of running 8 delves and getting six cloaks and 2 trinkets when we needed a necklace. But wait, it gets better. You could reforge your gear to improve certain stats. And next expansion back to the same stupid shit where your going insane running some in game thing trying to get the one piece you need.
One method of buffing tanks/healers I really liked was from Mists of Tirna Scythe. If you went out of your way to have a herbalist in the group you could take down a pathway and gain temporary buffs to damage, healing and damage reduction. One thing I absolutely hate is the little buffs you get in LFR Nerub-ar Palace. It feels so pointless to get despite them being everywhere. Maybe I'm just not seeing the benefit. One other thing I would ask of Blizzard would be to have an ignore item option. If I'm going into a dungeon looking for a weapon, I want the option to ignore the trinket which isn't good for my class that constantly drops. Also, every time that item wouldn't drop, increase its drop chance by lets say 5%. I'd also bring back Warforged/upgraded gear for non-mythic/raid gear. It's hard enough to gear enough on a new character for heroics, having the option to get a piece of gear in normal dungeons that may be 565 ilvl to help us get to heroics would be a massive boost. Not to mention it would help with rings since they are so expensive on the ah. Lastly, just buff the knowledge points gained from crafting professions. Or make them easier to get. My tailor is stuck at something stupid like 150 available points, that I can only gain maybe 15 a week, whereas my gathering professions already are maxed out. Just give me a chance to gain a knowledge point when crafting gear. That's all.
Nailing it until I hear "why invite a warlock". Other than MDI teams running them (I know bad example), we have an aoe stun that lasts 3s, 45s cooldown, infernal CD which again is an aoe stun for 2s. The 24s cooldown on kick is the normal CD for range classes. Melee is 15s and shadow priest has a 45s kick. Overall great points, but as a warlock main, cmonnnn
Dude you are absolutely right i hope the dev take this video seriously this is the what community wants. 90% of players is normal person ant a WF chaser or mythic raider or pussing 18,19 20 m+ we dont have time to do all of this things. Ppl buying gold cause nothing is rewarding enough and flask potion enchs are expensive.Why???? a lot of things must be change if they dont wow will be in dust in 3 year even they have a good plan for saga no matter what
Monk here as well, cleared hc raid every week, got the contract only last week, I was getting desperate. But still, ~80 runs in grim batol - no skardyn’s grace
Umm...i came back from cata and was genuinely enjoying tww. I felt like i was hooked again, spending a shameful amount of hours online. Then i came across mythics (im a healer main) and immediately looked forward to patch notes. But now...seeing that these problems have been around since legion...guess ill come back in another 14 years.
No you don’t understand , we had it good in DF , you missed out on one of the best expansions ever . Now they changed it so much and are experimenting so much in TWW , makes playing the game completely miserable and awful . And what Marcelian is basically asking the devs to do “you tried new stuff it didn’t work , revert it back”
I don't agree about the key depletion part tbh but to each their own. But man, bring back aoe stops as interrupts. There are so many spells to interrupt anyway. And make myth vault a +9 before the small wall.
If dps actually pressed their defensives every key would be 100 times easier for healers. Its only super stressfull because we're making up for dps zug brain.
You mentioned all the reasons why I stopped playing and caring, too much time for too little rewards in a season based game, got my 10-11st on 1st month and stopped there.
Rogues need some support too. With the power creep other classes have had in this regard and Blizzard removing (rightly) so many mandatory skips, rogues haven't much going for them in the control and support departments. All they have right now is being meta on raw DPS.
That is all needed and correct but it will not undo a mount that costs a AAA and AA game on a subscription based game. They are on full brand withdrawl mode
Bro I love this idea. I hate losing trinkets to people who only see there's a roll button available without actually knowing that trinket is garbage for their class. Idiots
THE BEST recomendation to the devs video ive watched so far. We know devs are watching and listening but this is a video deserving the attention .All of it. I hope it goes the way. GREAT JOB. U explained so many of the reasons i quit every expansion at some point.
The stuff he is saying is literally exactly what we want, but they wont do it and that’s why players come back and leave after 2-3 months. They get sick of just being taken advantage of for money. Hopefully a new mmo comes out soon and incorporates these things and when blizzard loses even more subs to a competitor they can wonder how it could’ve been if they just fixed such a simple thing.
Another question: what's the point of crests if I have to grind for the same item in each track? Hello, sir, you just won this cool new phone. Unfortunately, you first have to fix its screen. That's how it feels when I go from champ to hero and from hero to mythic. Different tracks and different crests do the same thing, make you do higher content for better gear. You don't need both crests and tracks, preferably lose tracks (except mythic, leave it as separate category).
I agree with all of these especially the loot part. I did over 40 mists to get the changling trinket just to get a champion track helping a friend with a alt😭
So, not sure if I understood, what happens if you wipe and your key won't deplete. That means you can just run out and reset over and over. That is 10000% not fun at all!
Only thing I'd change here is to delete the key system entirely and use the delve system of picking the difficulty at the start. cooked the rest of it.
Bravo!!!!!! 100% right. Tired of being punished and strung along on so many levels so they can continue to time gap, stonewall and stretch out their revenue.
Yes, vendor gears were amazing. you always feel like you progress towards something. not just wait for RNG And please... give us some kind of system for queueing to M and M+ where we also could slowly progress. Like open each + for every dungeon only after completing that dungeon on previous lvl or whatever.
If you want to target the Mythic+ key system, why not just make it very simple, NO KEYS AT ALL! How about players just earn something equivalent to restored coffer keys that are used for delves for bonus loot?
I just can't digest warriors not being able to apply HEROISM to their team. Shamans literally shout when they use BL, and warriors, the shouting class in every blizzard game, can't. I also can't digest the flying lizard not displaying their armor. They gave dractyr extra classes Noone asked for and kept the shitty looks. Now they can stink in more classes.
You‘re absolutely right! There have to be bad luck currencies..
Did Ara Kara 20 times, no Sackbrood but 5 other Items I don‘t need 🤯🤯
50 gold at the end of the dungeon is freakin insulting. Now we can easily get 1k gold for repair. Wtf!!
Feel like you wrote that for me, had the same experience 🤣
Sir, you have cooked
This video man is the best video for wow if the DEVS listen!!!! Than any other. Well done man!!!!
I’m not even halfway in and you’re 100% right on everything.
I felt the same after 5 min
Again - you nailed it - Having gear vendors would solve (legit) 90% problems
Like integrating tokens/currency for trinkets and weapons again.
Then you might aswell remove gear drops from dungeons.
PvP is much better that way
@ That’s fine, make bosses drop currency to buy the items instead. Less RNG, pleases everyone.
@@Nightstalker314 Tbf is it that bad idea ?
If we can pick our key what will happen is early in the season you will get people doing them all for KSM but then later on people will only be running the same 2-3 keys to farm crests and you will see literally 0 groups for the other keys.
There are dungeons I legitimately don’t do even if it had a bis item because it sucks. I run dungeons for my enjoyment, if I’m grinding bis I’m grinding bis but if I hate 1 dungeon I’m never going to push that dungeon ever.
Choosing keys just lets me do fun dungeons, like I loved academy in DF, and would constantly Que for it because it was fun.
@@greentang6375 the thing is typically everyone likes the same dungeons, not the hard ones. So as I said there wouild be basically no groups for these dungeons ever.. and if you needed something from it or were late to the season and needed KSM you would be waiting forever to get into said dungeon or maybe might never get in at all.
@@lukehyre1383What a tragedy, if only you could make your own group and go to the key you want...
@@artradies that would likely never get filled. It's already hard enough to find a Grim Batol right now for instance but people have to do them to push their keys etc so it keeps some in LFG still. With a pick your own system it would literally be all the same few keys after the first couple weeks.
This is actually an argument for being able to give proper feedback to blizz. If they see 1-3 dungeons never getting any runs maybe they would actually make an effort into making the dungeon fun.
Spot on video. I can simply extend everything you mentioned to PvP as well. I hope the Devs listen to this excellent video today..
Glad you enjoyed it! and yea, pretty sure a lot of the stuff can be applied to most content in the game, still missing the PvP days :)
@@MarcelianOnlineyes bro. Currently PvP is in ruins. The entire reward system is redundant be it for players like myself who are RBG Heros or any casual who just wish to get some mogs. I wish Blizz would hear us someday and act
The other day I had a bug where that alt Z interaction happened where nothing was on your screen. Except I couldn’t bring it back so I continue to tank the dungeon and it was the best experience I had a long time. I saw things I’ve never seen before, it was so visually pleasing and immersive. I thought about that and if there was a way to make it less about looking at data and more about immersive gameplay, I think that would be a good thing for the game. It is beautiful, but people are so caught up looking at Data points that it goes to the wayside
My brother in Christ that's called classic wow
This ^.
Similar experience when I did the NO ADDONS challenge in Dragonflight, made me see all the visual work put into the game :P
this is why i made a dynamically hiding UI this season. with all the pop culture stuff in wow, i never thought it could be a game i could be immersed, but i was wrong. It's beautiful, and you can totally feel like yu're in the world. I wish they would lean into that. I'm sure a lot more people would play just to live in the world and not even touch end game, as some already do
Love you brother. May Jesus bless you and your family
Thanks for the response marcelion
I also got some Ideas to make pugging a lot more bearable
1.We need some sort of M+ trial for People to be able to enter at all, Something like proving Grounds that shows you all the Affixes this Season and how your class can or cant deal with them.
2.At Season Start you should have to do each Dungeon 1 Time on M0, so you at least have a minimal understanding of the Dungeon
3.Instead of Keystones, use the Delve level System where you have to do +2 first to Unlock +3 and so on and you just can choose them from a Menu.
Add the “training” to Mythic 0. Gotta clear the dungeon on M0 to get into M+
I was thinking exactly you're last point, if you need to do T2 then T3 would be greyed out, then T3 unlocks and you do that to unlock T4 and so on. Would be way better and solidify the mechs in people's minds, there needs to be a way of getting more DPS players to get groups though
Let this be very clear, I want key depletion to be removed, but I can give you the reason why Blizzard placed it in the game and kept it in the game for all this time,
They said this in the official Blizzard interview with Ian Hazzikostas:
"The depletion of mythic keys exist so lower keys are still in rotation, if there is no key depletion then lower keys don't exist anymore over time as with every weekly vault players get a mythic plus key equal to their latest m+ they ran previous week."
That is what Blizzard said, no one has offered a solution for that issue yet.
In a world where keystones don't deplete, I could see the difficulty selector becoming like delves. Wanna run a NW 5? Just go there with your group and do it, assuming you've cleared a 4 or higher for that dungeon already as the leader/m+ dungeon starter.
Just take keys out and do it llike delves, then you can run stuff at any level.
boom, solutions ^
The solution is that people play alts. Not all my characters will be able to do a +10, some may be at a +5, while others are starting at +2. My character running a +10 is never going to go back to do a +2, depletion or not, so there is no need for depletion.
@@Daemos66good one
@15:20 I just want to point out that this point would be true for Monk's Mystic Touch rather than Battle Shout. Battle Shout is one of the very few redeeming qualities of Warrior, the buff will make it so that every single Strength or Agility class regardless of damage type will have 5% more AP.
just get rid of keystones entirely. at the pedestal you can select what difficulty you want to attempt.
The entire mythic system is a great in theory, terrible in practice scenario. it's punishment for the sake of punishment on all accounts. On top of the mythic io score which breeds elitism furthering the tilt and divide between old and new players. This game is supposed to bring people together and I would like to see it do that again.
honestly, 10man mythic or like 12man would be a godsend for so many people including me. Its incredibly difficult scheduling 20 people of similair skill and motivation and 1 person missing kills the raid night.
+1, just make it flexible like any other difficulty. If they want it for RWF then just implement it so it becomes flexible after some time of the race being over. Would love to play it without it being so much of a chore to get 20 ppl to do so
If someone leaves the timer should pause and allow a reinsert, just consider it a dead key but let us bring some help to get the loot
Any way we can tag Blizzard on this video? They NEED to see this video, PERIOD!!!
One of the best wow videos all explaining the big issues with the game. I can only hope the devs see this and rethink what they are doing.
Honestly, simply accumulating all the items that are wiped from the non looting nature of m+ would help so much with the repair costs.
Normal/heroic dungeons have so much gold, reagents, greens, etc drop from the mobs that are completely wiped from m+ that simply having those appear in the final chest would help so much in terms of funding repair bills at the very least.
Auto loot would be amazing! Star Wars galaxies has had it forever. Don't make me click on anything to get my loot. With a huge radius for ranged players.
Spec difficulty fix: Make a billion mechanics that 1 shot dps if they fail. Make heal/tank deal with constant and less spiky mechanics.
If they get 1 shot: blame yourself (less toxic)
If they die slower (healer sucks and know its him (cant blame dps)
I have been ranting about this since 10 years ago and I think we all have had similar thoughts. There just comes a point where you have to decide when to stop and just accept you are not going to get that item you want. I used to raid with guilds that were pushing for being within a week or so of world first kill (cutting edge etc). I quit raiding for this reason. I didn't want to wipe to the same boss 100+ times before seeing one item drop I'd use. Now I play more casually but delves have me feeling a bit of the same lately. I have cleared literally 300+ delves (got the account 250 delves achievement several weeks ago) across 6 characters at around 619 ilvl now. I have yet to see some of the items ONCE. Some of the ones I wanted the most I only got a track lower from the vault on a week I didn't do 8 delves. I don't play any of these characters now. I do alts to around 610 ilvl and stop before more of this kicks in. I know I'd LIKE to play more but without something deterministic I'm not going to suffer beyond 300 delves. And delves are fun for me. Something chill I do after work. But I'd rather do something else or at most play an alt.
You know the WORST part of all this for every player: we know we won't even use any of this stuff I February. We will be going through it again. Now that, THAT, is the demotivator for me.
Add a vendor like D3 had with blood shards...let us at least randomly target a slot from a currency that mythic plus drops.
The biggest problem for 90% of the player base is the toxic m+ cummunity. So how to solve it in three steps
1. Put in a autoque without a timer too compensate for not having a meta 4000+ rating group (keep the old system for the ones enyoing it)
2. Make it so you can replace ppl leaving the non timed ques
3. Lower the punishment from mechanics. If you cant do the content with the worst setup there is... its bad game design.
Bonus: Give us the TInker with tank/heal/dps/support spec
I would like to thank you for taking the time to present all of these suggestions for the M+ players like me :) They have to introduce tokens ffs, it's a no brainer, it would help a lot. Also, having tanks and healers feel like doing a 2nd job instead of fun is the biggest issue here I think.
My VDH is at 2600 io and it's really hard to stay alive, no mistakes allowed or I"m dead on the floor in 0.5sec. Dont think it's helping having more tanks.
FInally, in Gw2, doing the same as M+ is the most profitable thing you can do in the game (fractals). I dont understand why it would not be the same thing.
Literally all of these things are implemented so we play more. Playing more= more money.
But they’re also losing out on long term sales because it might keep is around in the short term, but within a couple of months, ppl grow fed up and frustrated. So having these changes would boost their revenue quite a bit imo
I would love to WANT to play more instead of feel like I have to. It’s a mistake to make the game feel like a chore, when really part of me loves mythic+, but it’s just bogged down with so many dumb decisions.
Right and wrong. Imagine alts were easily gearable and not restricted through weekly vaults (if you play m+ only) so many people would play many different alts which also means more time played
I was skeptical when I clicked your video but you are a hero
I just literally agree with everything.
M+ is so flawed, I'm already burnt out by this time. But still, with such small improvements you mention in the video, it could be a million times better.
Devs! Listen to this. Listen to the constructive critics. Implement them. Win-win.
Thanks Marcelian for sharing this!
"why don't we have this stuff in the best MMO ever made?"
we do
we do have this stuff in FFXIV
it's also in Warframe
it's called a pity system, where if RNG fails you, you can still get what you want by grinding out a currency you get from the same activity
Love the loot ideas, the depletion idea, and the mechanics ideas! No RNG on dungeon would have most people farming the fastest/easiest one over and over for crests. Leads to burnout, makes it harder for non-meta to find keys when they will already be more rare. IMO of course, seems to makes sense though.
Also, I freaking love BRD raid... I run it even while saved just fun lol
If Blizz allowed me a way to farm what I want [bad luck protection] and removed flight stones, I would actually gear up alts AND play more.
Don’t you dare dumb down my healers. I love the challenge. We can create difficulty with our messing with dps. Force tanks to taunt mobs that lose agro- make mobs have the trinity system- tanks attacking dps causing a dps loss- healing mobs, and melee that attack the healer…
Saying "Let the healers and tanks have fun". Bravo bravo let them pull ton of them
preach! Just to add on:
I believe key depletion needs to be only partially removed, for example you still need to complete it within an hour and bellow 50 deaths (just some arbitrary caps). If they were to remove it completely, people will just restart the dungeon over and over after a single dead/wipe and kick the scapegoat of turn creating a very toxic trend.
Alt gearing should be free (only valorstone costs) up to heroic as long as one character in the warband has completely upgraded said slot.
There's no reason for low keys (up to +4 or so) to not be in LFG queuing like heroics.
High keys should offer some sort of deterministic raid item tokens, for example the weekly vault from timing a +12 could have 1 token, farm 4 and you can buy a mythic raid trinket/weapon/item with effect, etc from the current raid, vault from +8~10 from heroic raid, vault from +5 normal raid, etc. In the same way, raid vault should offer dungeon currency, similar to DF season 4, but "not as free". It's such an easy, fair and elegant solution so people can focus on the content they want to focus on instead of trying to artificially boost raid numbers as they did in DF...
every healer should have either, bres or lust, PI always has been a nightmare to balance, mages and warlocks are witness of that...
leavers need to be punished, if someone leaves a group in the middle of a dungeon ON THEIR OWN, or DC/AFK for 20% of it, they get, no loot and vault that week and a big fat deserter-like debuff in their complete warband that stacks and lasts for a whole season so everybody can read it, also they wouldn't be able to enter keys of the same lvl than the one they left until they 'redeem their sins' completing a determined number of lower lvl keys.
Normally content creators are just shitting about every game, but you sir, are right on point. I couldn't agree more with you on each and every point you made!
I feel like they definitely need to stop depleting keys in mythic plus. And also, they absolutely need to add a permanent deterministic loop system into the game now and moving forward forever. Meaning, if you do a piece of content, you get rewarded badges that you can buy any piece of gear you would like. End of storyyou can still have world quest, and even have them drop a piece of gear that will save you from having to use a token.
Absolutely agree with everything you said, as someone who dosent have time for raids m+ is my end game content and right now its pissing me off due to how much time i spend either looking for groups or failing keys and having to go back to 8s and 9s
My personal thoughts:
- Get rid of key depletion, 100%
- Get rid of affixes (knowing the mechs well but on top of "also, grab these purple orbs while doing them, quick!"
- I'd like to see the timer go but maybe having a sense of urgency helps the flow and speed of the dungeon, so feel either way about that
- Stop forcing players to focus so much on popping defensives for survivability, don't mind difficulty but let healers take back control of survivability of the group
- MTTA - Make Tanks Tanky Again
No affixes, timers, or actually requiring players to use their full kits? It sounds like you just don't like the concept of m+ at all. It's supposed to be different from standard dungeons and also much harder. Stop trying to turn mythic + into something it's not.
I'm 100% on board with the depletion and making tanks actually tanks though. Tanks should 100% be in control of their deaths. This also makes smart play and rotation for a tank matter.
@@XAn0nymousX0tbh with you M+ is what I play WoW for, I don't really raid and I do a delve or 2 on occasion, but for me it's all about M+
The dropping timer is maybe a little extreme, I can deal with it. The flow of a dungeon run with a team that know what they're doing is a great feeling. I said the point about affixes because sometimes it feels more of a nuisance rather than an enjoyable challenge - it already requires more skill to survive in the higher keys (as it should) but now "catch/destroy these blue orbs also" I don't feel adds much to the experience
Your tips were spot-on, and I would appreciate Blizzard addressing them. However, I remain skeptical about their commitment to enhancing the "quality of life" for players after so many years.
Simple get rid of the timer, keep the trash counter, add currency for each boss that you kill that you dont get loot from and you can buy loot from a vendor from said dungeon
Freaking gear vendors is EXACTLY what this damn game needs. I've done tons of delves and dungeons with the same items dropping over and over... It's ridiculous. Just add tokens and let us pick gear for the work we have done!
While I don't mythic raid or anything fancy, I do still feel the effects of rng and the lack of vendors not just having items that I can get currency for..
and currency not being streamlined for buying in general... like I feel the messiness.
Everything feels like it's cobbled together with duct tape and had that one part you don't touch at all because it's not worth it.
I really wish after all these years, 20 in fact, that they would take this a lot more seriously for the fans.
Treat fans like valued players of a community rather than cash grabs. Experiment but don't hold on to things the community hate and struggles with.
I really think that after all this time it would have been nice for them to take FFXIV as a sort of a more serious competitor in certain areas.
While story wise and stuff it runs differently - they would take better care to balance specs, raids, and gear for even a casual person like me.
I'd run Savages for fun, and any class I picked felt solid enough, felt like no matter the composition of the raid, each one had mechanics that worked and could help.
Mechanics of fights were intricate, fun to learn, fun to dodge, fun to experience. WoW's just feel... hallow.
Like pulling bosses just feels like DPS checks only and little mechanics, like you were saying about interrupts and certain classes not being as good to use.
WoW could be so much more interesting, could be more mature, easy to understand, easy to get into and learn classes,
and feel pride in your class regardless of specs, if they would be more serious about what players need at this point.
Wow those are great points!!! I do hope Blizz are watching this!
New player here, and i got 2.3k in the season so far. Im not renewing my subscription but if most of your suggestions get on, i probably will. You addressed the main issues in the game, well done!
Thank you for yelling out my issues. Hopefully, this reaches Blizzard, who pretends to be deaf
how is it possible blizzard sees this video?!! 100% AGREE WITH YOU! well said on everything. THIS WILL CREATE FUN
Speaking of tanks, they just nerfed our Prot Pally. Why? He got 2 weeks of some minor buffs and then nerfed hard! What?
Yes all good points, but also remove the lock on mythic raids for easier pugging and remove the 20 player requirement.
Completely revamp the pvp reward structure, add new modes and deal with the que times.
And heavily remove button bloat for healers especially, no one wants 30+ keybinds
Awesome video! I agree with everything. I don’t play m+ anymore because of the toxic environment. More rewards equals more happy players.
Everything you said sums up to this: Time Sink.
They don't want you to get what you're after beacuse fomo is real and you're living it.
This is probably the best video I've ever seen. This should be played on the devs daily agile stand ups at 9am
thinking that pulling more mobs vs fewer that have mechanics is probably an impulse thought. without anything to kick and just pull the whole dungeon shit would get stale/boring after 1 week. i'd actually prefer to bring back hard cc where you're required to use hex/poly and shit and be more thoughtful than just zug zug -> mash keyboard -> wipe -> manchildren saying "you suck" -> group disband
This hit home. I honestly might quit the game just because they still haven’t stopped key depletion. Blizzard we aren’t stupid, we know that you just want us to have tons of time sink which is fine, but with key depletion it’s just outright ridiculous. Keep time sinks out of pushing high keys or doing high level content. How are we supposed to prog keys when we have to literally push the key back up to the level we need and on top of that it’ll probably be a complete other dungeon we don’t even get it for. So stupid. Just listen to the damn community
This is too rational for money greedy corporations it's never gonna happen
I agree. Sometimes it feels like the developers hate the players, and are trying to torture us as punishment.
IMHO the best questing system was on Argus when operating from the Exodar. We earned veiled argunite. Then we went to a vendor and bought the item we needed instead of running 8 delves and getting six cloaks and 2 trinkets when we needed a necklace.
But wait, it gets better. You could reforge your gear to improve certain stats.
And next expansion back to the same stupid shit where your going insane running some in game thing trying to get the one piece you need.
One method of buffing tanks/healers I really liked was from Mists of Tirna Scythe. If you went out of your way to have a herbalist in the group you could take down a pathway and gain temporary buffs to damage, healing and damage reduction. One thing I absolutely hate is the little buffs you get in LFR Nerub-ar Palace. It feels so pointless to get despite them being everywhere. Maybe I'm just not seeing the benefit.
One other thing I would ask of Blizzard would be to have an ignore item option. If I'm going into a dungeon looking for a weapon, I want the option to ignore the trinket which isn't good for my class that constantly drops. Also, every time that item wouldn't drop, increase its drop chance by lets say 5%.
I'd also bring back Warforged/upgraded gear for non-mythic/raid gear. It's hard enough to gear enough on a new character for heroics, having the option to get a piece of gear in normal dungeons that may be 565 ilvl to help us get to heroics would be a massive boost. Not to mention it would help with rings since they are so expensive on the ah.
Lastly, just buff the knowledge points gained from crafting professions. Or make them easier to get. My tailor is stuck at something stupid like 150 available points, that I can only gain maybe 15 a week, whereas my gathering professions already are maxed out. Just give me a chance to gain a knowledge point when crafting gear. That's all.
This video is so well articulated its like you have a PHD in wow, very awesome.
Nailing it until I hear "why invite a warlock". Other than MDI teams running them (I know bad example), we have an aoe stun that lasts 3s, 45s cooldown, infernal CD which again is an aoe stun for 2s.
The 24s cooldown on kick is the normal CD for range classes. Melee is 15s and shadow priest has a 45s kick.
Overall great points, but as a warlock main, cmonnnn
Gear vendors were the shit. Running heroics in WotLk mattered. They need to bring it back. They already have the currency with the crest.
Paladins need a bloodlust called something like, “The Argent Crusade”
Sure.. let em have everything 😅
Dude you are absolutely right i hope the dev take this video seriously this is the what community wants. 90% of players is normal person ant a WF chaser or mythic raider or pussing 18,19 20 m+ we dont have time to do all of this things. Ppl buying gold cause nothing is rewarding enough and flask potion enchs are expensive.Why???? a lot of things must be change if they dont wow will be in dust in 3 year even they have a good plan for saga no matter what
Monk here as well, cleared hc raid every week, got the contract only last week, I was getting desperate.
But still, ~80 runs in grim batol - no skardyn’s grace
No depletion! No depletion!
Let people finish the game, they return later! Gate differently!
Cool vid! They should learn!
Hear hear!
Umm...i came back from cata and was genuinely enjoying tww. I felt like i was hooked again, spending a shameful amount of hours online. Then i came across mythics (im a healer main) and immediately looked forward to patch notes. But now...seeing that these problems have been around since legion...guess ill come back in another 14 years.
No you don’t understand , we had it good in DF , you missed out on one of the best expansions ever . Now they changed it so much and are experimenting so much in TWW , makes playing the game completely miserable and awful . And what Marcelian is basically asking the devs to do “you tried new stuff it didn’t work , revert it back”
You could work in Ion Hazzikostas's place. You are certainly showing that you are more attentive to WOW's needs than the guy there.
I don't agree about the key depletion part tbh but to each their own. But man, bring back aoe stops as interrupts. There are so many spells to interrupt anyway. And make myth vault a +9 before the small wall.
If dps actually pressed their defensives every key would be 100 times easier for healers. Its only super stressfull because we're making up for dps zug brain.
No more keys. Just pick what level you want when you start. Like Torghast or Delves
Spot on. That’s the reason I left the endless grinding n farming for items that u never get.
You mentioned all the reasons why I stopped playing and caring, too much time for too little rewards in a season based game, got my 10-11st on 1st month and stopped there.
Blizzard... listen and act! It will benefit your status! Make the game for the gamers!
Glad you think so! Pretty sure they can make better decisions than what we are saying here, but at least try to solve the problems somehow
Spot on ! However explaining this to blizz is the equivalent of blowing a damn trumpet into a deaf persons ear.
Rogues need some support too. With the power creep other classes have had in this regard and Blizzard removing (rightly) so many mandatory skips, rogues haven't much going for them in the control and support departments. All they have right now is being meta on raw DPS.
Welcome to reality of non meta classes
Each of your videos is a real find! Thank you for your quality content and interesting topics. I always look forward to the new episodes!🤟💓😜
Agree with everything, Mythic plus feels like a chore. The only desire I have to do it is the loot, and 9/10 times you don’t even get anything.
Yo, this video needs to blow up, my man Flame out here spitting truth!
We all know these things because we actually play the game, unlike any Blizzard employee.
No to tokens for ur bis items from dungens, but big YES for the gold in m+ chests and mats and stuff.
That is all needed and correct but it will not undo a mount that costs a AAA and AA game on a subscription based game. They are on full brand withdrawl mode
I totally agree with you! I hope someone at Blizzard listens to you. More rewards and fun, less painful penalties. 🤓🤓
This….. had to be said. Very well designed video! If they really want to deliver what was promised they will start with these things.
These ideas need to be listened too by the development team !!!
They'll never do deterministic loot. They want us running on the hamster wheel. Stick and the carrot kind of thing except there's no carrot
Make the Nerub Palace Refinery also gear vendor tokens.
Bro I love this idea. I hate losing trinkets to people who only see there's a roll button available without actually knowing that trinket is garbage for their class. Idiots
THE BEST recomendation to the devs video ive watched so far. We know devs are watching and listening but this is a video deserving the attention .All of it. I hope it goes the way. GREAT JOB. U explained so many of the reasons i quit every expansion at some point.
If real life worked like WoW
Boss: Time for your paycheck *Rolls d20* oh that's a nat 1 sorry you won't get paid better luck next week
The stuff he is saying is literally exactly what we want, but they wont do it and that’s why players come back and leave after 2-3 months. They get sick of just being taken advantage of for money. Hopefully a new mmo comes out soon and incorporates these things and when blizzard loses even more subs to a competitor they can wonder how it could’ve been if they just fixed such a simple thing.
I've been spammign LFR, Normal and Heroic for Spymaster every week since they launched that god forsaken raid and I STILL have no spymaster...
Man, you spoke from the deep of my heart!
Thank you Flame.
The Devs do watch your videos! Keep up the good work.
Much appreciated!
Another question: what's the point of crests if I have to grind for the same item in each track? Hello, sir, you just won this cool new phone. Unfortunately, you first have to fix its screen. That's how it feels when I go from champ to hero and from hero to mythic. Different tracks and different crests do the same thing, make you do higher content for better gear. You don't need both crests and tracks, preferably lose tracks (except mythic, leave it as separate category).
I agree with all of these especially the loot part. I did over 40 mists to get the changling trinket just to get a champion track helping a friend with a alt😭
So, not sure if I understood, what happens if you wipe and your key won't deplete. That means you can just run out and reset over and over. That is 10000% not fun at all!
They really want us not to spent but to waste hours in the game.
Only thing I'd change here is to delete the key system entirely and use the delve system of picking the difficulty at the start. cooked the rest of it.
Key depletion and horrible rng are why I don't bother trying to do high end mythic+ anymore. Games are meant to be fun, that shit just isn't fun.
I have a spicy idea... get rid of Mythic and have only Normal and Heroic levels for dungeons and raids.... Mythic+ has ruined this game for me.
Hands down, the best wow video I have seen. Spot on views.
Bravo!!!!!! 100% right. Tired of being punished and strung along on so many levels so they can continue to time gap, stonewall and stretch out their revenue.
Yes, vendor gears were amazing. you always feel like you progress towards something. not just wait for RNG
And please... give us some kind of system for queueing to M and M+ where we also could slowly progress. Like open each + for every dungeon only after completing that dungeon on previous lvl or whatever.
If you want to target the Mythic+ key system, why not just make it very simple, NO KEYS AT ALL! How about players just earn something equivalent to restored coffer keys that are used for delves for bonus loot?
I just can't digest warriors not being able to apply HEROISM to their team. Shamans literally shout when they use BL, and warriors, the shouting class in every blizzard game, can't.
I also can't digest the flying lizard not displaying their armor. They gave dractyr extra classes Noone asked for and kept the shitty looks. Now they can stink in more classes.
All this would make everyone happy.