My Nemesis: The Coffee Scoop
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ส.ค. 2024
- I'm aware this may have all gone too far...
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Rather than rant about this, I wanted to test my well-stewed bias against coffee scoops and volumetric measurements with help and data from other people.
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The irony that James did this experiment at Prufrock, named after the Eliot poem containing the line "I have measured out my life with coffee spoons" made me chuckle.
Underrated comment
How is that ironic?
@@ApexHerbivore I wondered that too….
I think that's an intentional reference.
@@ApexHerbivore Because James hates to mesure with scoops/spoons, I think if James could mesure his life, he would do it with a scale xD
Being "fussy and pretentious and difficult" is the whole reason I subscribed. It helps me learn what to be fussy and pretentious and difficult about
Most people are indeed "fussy and pretentious and difficult" about the things they care deeply about. Then they ridicule people who care deeply about other things, which is just silly. Care deeply about nothing and you're a bum, but care deeply about too much and you're neurotic.
We all have our neurosis and our things. You don't have to understand it but you don't gogt judge it, it's just like, move on if it ain't for you 🤷♀️
Coffee drinking has become a hobby in a similar fashion to say a Single Malt Scotch drinker. (it's also a lot bloody cheaper) So it is necessary to have the pretentiousness and fussiness of an enthusiast. Which prompts the question, are there actual coffee drinking clubs around, like Single Malt Scotch clubs?
@ and to build off your point, when people care deeply about things, it leads to progress. Especially when companies take the criticisms to heart and actually improve their products/processes/UX & UI.
Some of us also find it incredibly stressful to guess, and try to be consistent with volumes. I like to weigh my eggs with I'm baking, because they too vary a lot in size, and it does matter. I'd rather be fussy and difficult than stressed out and unsure any day of the week!
The word scoop, and all of it’s various conjugations, was used 69 times in total in this video.
Nice.
scoop
@Matthew: A noun cannot be conjugated.
@Jens
'scoop' is also a verb
to scoop
@@aiocafea Absolutely correct. Good point!
Nice
"Don't be chaotic, do it as if you were making coffee for yourself"
which one do you want, James
Exactly lol. His statement assumes that we are less chaotic when we make coffee for ourselves
Somewhere in the distance, _Hames Joffman_ stirs...
I don't know if this is pure comedy, but damn, you make a good point
I’ve spent my entire 5 years of marriage trying to convince my wife that the scale is the way to go but I arrogantly showed this to her before watching it myself and now I am sad.
F
Just make a case about how the multiples of your coffee scoop exactly filled out is not the way to enjoy your choice of coffee and then start bringing different coffee products with different grinds and insist that the same volumetric measure doesn't apply to their variances the best, unlike knowing the weight would (the required measure being outside the units of coffee scoops of course as well).
Doing a similar test convinced me to ditch the scale.
Oh dear, after five years you have not learned a thing……
What happened?
I’m with James on this one; I’m so against a scoop, I just reach into the bag and use my hands. So satisfying.
Excuse me, but _real_ coffee drinkers use butterflies.
I tip it onto my philtrum and convey it to the filter from there. I can tell by smell when I have the right amount.
Whatever happened to just tilting the container and stopping when it's just about right? xD
I just pour my water directly in the coffee bag, it doubles as a drinking cup
@@moopet8036 A xkcd reference? I'm surprised if anyone got it, but nice. :D
"People get angry with me for being fussy and pretentious and difficult and they're probably right" what a quote.... We love you James
My wife is a chemistry professor, and I had to send this to her as a video example for an intro class of how to design a study. She also said at the point of you being frustrated at how consistent some people were scooping that she's had that exact emotion in the lab when some people are just so damn accurate at "scooping" chemicals. Through either years of practice or some kind of intuition they just always get out exactly how much they need of whatever it is they're using.
Yeah one of the benefits of being a lab rat is that when i measure in the kitchen im almost always bang on accurate to the nearest gram.
Familiar one! A coworker is still amazed at how I measure things by eyeball down to the millimeter. Honestly just a handy skill to have
@@thomgt4 Ah yes, the infamous "eyeballing it".
Now I need to know if someone with unusually accurate proprioception is more accurate at scooping coffee consistantly.
some people just have the special gene that allows their hands to be the perfect biological scale that tells them the exact weight in .1 grams through the nerves in their fingertips
the barista gene...
only James could make me excited for a video on a scoop
I don't know what to say .. You are right .. 😂😂 spoon , scoop .. maybe next screwdriver ..
True lol.. but he have such a good story telling and production that it becomes cool..
That's for sure! 🙂
Hey, try Rich Piana YTP videos 😆
You won't regret it
Same here. Only James could offer the kind of commentary on the scoop to make it worth watching.
It's a thing now: The Hoffmann Iceberg Scoop Theory.
I would imagine this is exactly why infant formula comes with a deep/tall, small-diameter scoop.
Someone needs to set up a Wikipedia page for this
@@kunalagrawal8948 I'm certain that James would be delighted to have his name forever linked with the word "scoop".
It's also flawed, an iceberg always has a fixed percentage above the water based on its buoyancy
My dad has used a normal spoon for his coffee every day for 35+ years and it pains me to say his coffee is incredibly consistent
I myself, also have a spoon...but i just bought a moccomaster and its suppose to come with a scoop. This video came across my feed and peakrd my interest lol
@@Papi4l2 I too just got a moccamaster!
@@poshhippie6446 thats awesome. Did u get it yet? Mines comin today. Been wantin it for a couple years now and i seen it was on sale on amazon lol
@@Papi4l2 yeah I got an old cdg model and I really like it. I've had it for a couple weeks and I'm finally getting the hang of it. I've found giving it a good bloom is pretty important and that mine does better with a more medium grind than the super coarse that most people recommend. They also just look beautiful. I also have a spinn which I love but my girlfriend missed having pots of coffee
@@poshhippie6446 how do u "give it a good bloom"? Doesnt it bloom on its own? Never heard of a spinn. I never did the keurigs...i gotta have the pot lol
For me, coffee is like homemade curry. I don't really focus on making it the same every time, as long as it's within a mile of "delicious".
I agree here. There's so many variables in cooking, including in the food itself, that aiming for absolute perfect measurements every time is pointless. The world isn't perfect, humans aren't perfect, embrace that fact and free yourself from fretting over the minutiae.
That is fair. I guess for James coffee is more like baking were exact measurments are very important and can sometimes be the difference between a success or a big failure
there is a difference between a commercial and a private setting. In a commercial setting reproduceabillity is wanted in order to communicate with the customer what he wants. In a private setting variance is desirable because it is more interesting.
@@Isamu27298 I really don't bake to exact measurements but it usually works. And even if it doesn't, it still tastes good
Set the temperature from 94 to 96 Celsius for your espresso and you find out, how little a mile of delicious can be ;)
Like baking with yeast: too hot or cold and it’s dead 💀
I just want to commend you on your speaking voice. I don’t know what it is about TH-camrs but it seems that a lot of them out there tend to shout or talk in a manor that makes me feel that I’m in another room from them. You consistently speak like I’m across the table from you and that feels really great as a viewer.
haha, not to mention the "youtuber" cadence.
Alot of them have bad mics or don't know how to master or record their audio properly. Most people have their audio set way too high especially since the majority probably edit via headphones which really doesn't give you an accurate depiction of what your audio will sound like. Americans also tend to talk loud lol. James is pretty chill and mellow.
Which manor is this you're referring to? And home many rooms does this manor have again?
The table probably helps ;)
Audio book quality
I never expected to become a coffee snob, but this past year I’ve found a passion in making the best coffee I can at home and that’s all thanks to James. Now I feel queasy whenever I have to make a coffee without my scale or burr grinder since I can hear James’ “no… no….” ruminating in my head. Anyone else relate?
uhh yeah.
Opposite.
Questioning my sanity at this stage.
Definitely. I carry my grinder, scale, filter and kettle whenever I go to a friend's house. My friends like my coffee and I feel like it'd be embarrassing for me not to make what they expected because I didn't have my tools at hand. The invisible James in the sky would berate me.
Yeah. I learnt most of my skills from this channel over lockdown 🤪😊 got a new hobby
Absolutely
I just recently found your channel and I love your unique blend of fastidious precision and self-effacing open-mindedness. I don't imagine I will ever feel the need to be as precise and careful as you, but I love that you're doing it!
I just bought a chemex and made coffee today using my best approximation of your V60 technique and I think it was the best cup of coffee I have ever made at home. At the moment, I am still buying pre-ground coffee (don't hate me!) but even with this, it was a better cup than I am used to (I guess it's time to experiment with home grinding, and later, sourcing fresh roasted beans...
Two of my favorite unrelated niche TH-cam channels have found each other!
Nice to bump into you here Atomic! I buy pre-ground too and find it delicious when fresh, who do you use, I'm on Pact at the moment.
@@MattGDesign I feel a bit ashamed to say it's whatever I happen to like the look of at the supermarket, taking into consideration flavour claims and ethics as far as possible. I suppose it's fair to say that I have much of this journey still ahead of me...
I myself live in a divided home. The wife buys coffee at the supermarket and mixes it with... flavored coffee from T.K. Maxx! For me, I am a couple years in to my coffee journey (on the cheap) and drinking locally roasted beans, at least once a day, and a bunch of gifted coffees from friends... generally supermarket origin, Tchibo, Denn’s Bio (organic store) because I hate wasting anything! I can honestly say that I find something good in every cup. And I enjoy them all.
@@AtomicShrimp I am not a coffee connoisseur by any means, I just taste stuff and know it's something I like 😆 I usually get Tesco Finest and Sainsbury's Taste the Difference, in the moca pot I can't tell the difference.
I've been scooping everyday. No scales. Though I did measure a good few scoops to see how much coffee I was getting per scoop. I think it's easier and faster than using scales everyday.
Finally, us precision scoopers have been vindicated!
I've literally been eyeballing how much coffee I put into my french press, it's definitely fine by me haha
Ah, yes. The precision mk1 eyeball. Difficult for me since most of my brewers are opaque.
I think that's the trick, you try out scooping with a scale so you can get feedback on if you're doing it accurately. Once you know what you're doing and can trust it then scales are just an unnecessary extra step.
I’d imagine the average persons coffee scoop to be even more variable since people who would follow James on Twitter are at least fairly into coffee
Exactly. The population of the experiment were most likely ... way over the standard coffee makers.
Thus said, if they can show that it's possible to get a consistent amount of coffee per scoop (with a tiny bit of time and engagement), the average scoop user should be able to do it as well ;)
It was at a public cafe though, so it wasn’t just people who follow James on Twitter.
@@ThinhTDiep True, but that just complicates it further by dividing the sample population into those who happened upon the experiment vs. people who knowingly sought it out based on his twitter. Not saying that's a bad thing, its just more variables to consider.
@@knownunknowns589 I was replying to the original comment which implies only people who saw the tweet came and performed in the experiment, which is unlikely to have been the case.
There are two kinds of people. Those who believe there are two kinds and those that don't.
Just loving the term "BEAN SCOOPER"
> JH bursts into a room. "LISTEN HERE BEAN SCOOPERS"
> Starts throwing $10 scales across the room.
But anyway. If I use a Aeroproess scoop you fill it up completely with no overflow (beans or grounds) or your just some kind of monster.
I'm now using Bean Scooper as an insult.
Would love to see a Bean Scooper T-shirt to be honest
British man has feelings about coffee scoops, spends an unreasonable time going off about them. Quality content, just what I'm here for
James' utter distress at scoops being kinda sorta accurate is precious 😂 😂
I think the missed opportunity here is a test like "This is a 8g scoop, try to load 20g into that V60 (or a cup) with it. That is how the scoop world is messing with you. You always have the scoop with a dose that's not useful.
Anyway, thanks for the video!
Exactly. I have a scoop that I rather consistently fill with 6 grams. Needless to say, when not weighing, I always prepare a coffee where the water volume (density 1) is based on an integer scoop count.
@@bjorn_ and that's the thing, really. Everyone's drip coffee maker is a little different and uses a varying amount of water/temp and extraction quality. Taking those into account, sloppy scooping means that a pot of coffee made by the same person on the same day on the same machine could be wildly different.
I've got a 1/8 cup scoop that I can consistently get 17g of coffee with by filling it about 1.5 times.
@@feronanthus9756 I guess that’s a clear case for using a scale. On the other hand, my taste isn’t as calibrated, developed nor refined as Alex’s.
@@bjorn_ What? No. I can reliably just measure it with a scoop. I don't need the scale. If its not clear, I meant i weigh it after scooping.
One unmentioned thing that bothers me about scoops is that beans are different sized depending on the source/batch, so even if you learn the grams for one bag, you have to relearn it with each new one. I suppose at least with powder it will be more consistent.
One great thing about scoops, however - transferring beans from your canister onto your weigh scale!
And into the top of my tiny hand grinder! 😅
And grind size should matter. You see this with salt in cooking; a fine table salt is much more compact than a flaky sea salt, so measuring by volume is an issue.
I’ve never used a scoop to transfer beans to scale to grinder. I guess the world is divided to scoopers and Hoffman’s. 😂
Actually, no, it's not more consistent with ground coffee, not even for the same grind size. I noticed that 20g of different beans, all ground with my grinder on the same setting, don't fill up my moka pot baskets to the same level
@@EvenTheDogAgrees You just provided evidence that scooping ground coffee is inconsistent. You didn't provide evidence that scooping ground coffee is less consistent THAN WHOLE BEANS.
Omg, I love he took one of his most hated biases in coffee and then let other people prove it right or wrong. One of his best videos to date.
Something to consider... Beginner coffee enthusiasts SHOULD use a scoop! Like you said, if you pay attention, you can get pretty darn consistent results. But using the scoop encourages new drinkers to find the right amount of coffee for themselves. Instead of "James said I need 15 grams, so I have to do that or I'll be condemned to coffee hell!" they'll say "when I filled that scoop to the top, it was a bit too much for me. Let me back it down a little and find what's just right for me!" The scoop encourages coffee exploration! Which is really the whole point!
You can also do that with grams? Like go to 14 grams
I think it would also be beneficial to know how many grams their scoop scoops. James has made me want to totally rethink my coffee preparation - because I've become totally dissatisfied with my drip coffee maker -- and I'm going with an AeroPress. I also want to find a scoop that measures out close to 15g of coffee; and because I also own A KNIFE I know I'll be able to level off my scoop of coffee consistently and accurately. Love your videos, James, especially when you get a bit 'pedantic' about coffee and the shortcomings of coffee makers!
I disagree. I think that is a misunderstanding of measuring. It’s for precision. It’s not a mandate. If 15 grams is too much just change it to 14 grams. Meanwhile the scoop is inconsistent. You may not be decreasing the amount even if you’re trying.
@@aureaphilos I mean, I scoop whole bean coffee and get drip coffee I enjoy. I simply will not notice the difference between 14g of beans and 15g, personally. I do notice the difference between a dry process coffee and a wet process, both can be fun.
The scoop is good for getting the beans on the scale. :)
Exactly how I use them, they're helpful
Thank you!
I need to start doing this. I usually poor out of the bag and always spill some beans.
@@ButImFeelingMuchBetterNow Or pour too much in!
I have been using my moka pot basket to make my coffee in itslef. And stopped using the scale 😅
Scooping made me very miserable. As soon as I started weighing my coffee and water with a set of scales, making coffee suddenly became fun again. People think weighing coffee is overcomplicating things, but the opposite is true.
Right! Making good coffee made me realize something that I never thought to be true. I am a control freak. I love to control all the variables, even if it is just in the realm of coffee
Nah, I set up my scale and I can put 3 scoops in for 21 grams +/-0.6 grams. Plenty close enough. Three 7 gram scoops, very accurately, every time.
In weighing I've found that my grinder's number of cups serving dial has a 25-32 gram range with at the single set point I use for my normal pot. That's a lot of variance. With weighing I can get more consistent.
I only imagine the dude that scooped a MOUNTAIN of coffee and broke all the charts with those 15g. Absolutely based.
Well it was free so you better take as much as you can...
If you're reading this, drink every time James says "scoop."
depending on the drink, you're going to be either very drunk or very jittery by the end of the video
@@moonhorizon9245 If you do this with water, you did your best for your health ;-)
How much should I drink? A scoop?
@@sharpsheep4148 yes, a scoop.
Drink…coffee? Am doing so, now I can smell colors and see sound - and I’m not done watching.
“…incredibly consistent results…and that hurts me inside.” 😂 ❤️
You've always said the key to making a good coffee is understanding and remembering what you do that makes a coffee the way you like it. Well, with my scoop, I know exactly how many scoops I need to make the coffee that I like. And there isn't that much variance if you're even slightly competent in trying to make sure you fill the scoop the same way each time.
But as he said, what if you use another scoop?
@@oscargomez7070 But you don't. Most kitchens have exactly one scoop, and you use that scoop forever. Or until it breaks, and you have to learn the new scoop. But that's a week of OK coffee, before you manage the same consistency as before.
Agreed. I do believe James not telling people to try to be accurate with their scooping is kind of the wrong setup. If you were trying to make good coffee you'd wanna scoop accurately.
And the whole thing about making the coffee you like i fully agree with. Only problem i see is that the quantity of liquid coffee you get out is kind of fixed by scoop-increments because partial scoops are harder to do accurately I assume.
And then there's the question of how you measure your water... if you weigh the water you might as well weigh the coffee.
But if you're brewing a french press and you just fill it to the line you should be fine.
Whilst this is absolutely correct, you can be consistent with a scoop, i think that scoop is consistent in a very discreet set. Yes you can have very consistent one scoop or two or three scoops. But what if i feel daring today and i think to myself, 'Oh im gonna do my coffee slightly stronger today', so you take your usual three scoops and a bit... and the other day you want to repeat this, but you wont be able to repeat this 'a bit'. Or what if you use different coffee and so it happens that its perfect at exactly 3 1/3 scoops, again its hard to be consistent. Again, i absolutely think that scoops can be consistent... if you drink your coffee in a consistent manner. If you want to experiment and, fine tune and repeat your recipes from a time ago i think that's where scoops stand no chance against scale
@@M4DA. you've gotta play around the amount of coffee the scoop scoops so you only ever use full scoops and not partial scoops. The scoop is not about being daring or terribly precise but having a reliable scoop in the morning with no twiddling of scales required.
If you want to tweak the taste of a scoop of coffee with such and such method, roast and grind size you aren't changing the scoop, you're changing everything else until you get that scoop to taste good.
I just dump coffee straight from the package into whatever I'm using to make it. The only time I bother measuring anything is when baking. To be fair though, my palate isn't refined enough to recognize anything other than "strong coffee good."
I would love to see more of the one on one “Can James get me to like coffee?” type videos where you walk through various tastings and methods. I found that very interesting as someone who just recently getting in to coffee in my late 30’s. It’s taking a lot of experimentation and personally trying various roast types, grinders, French press, v60, Aero, etc. Your channel has been a tremendous resource. Thank you!
“We have over a hundred scoops of data” lol
I thought he was trying to prove the scoop was a poor measurement? And yet here he is measuring the amount of data he got in "scoops"
He clearly is in a class of his own.
Warning to viewers: Be prepared for the word "scoop" to lose all meaning
Imagine this and all the outtakes…
@@jameshoffmann at least it’s not a word you regularly encounter when using coffee equipment 😳
As a newcomer to coffee pretention (and I owe a lot of that too James), I would be very entertaining and helpful to see experiments in tamping!
For a while I was getting out my scale and weighing the beans in my scoop to ensure consistency. Then I realized I can get within a half gram without weighing and I decided to just scoop from then on.
The issue for me was the extra step/ time to get the scale out, turn it on, zero it, use it and then put it away. For me it wasn't a significant difference to my end result.
I do think using the scale to "get to know" my scoop was helpful, but now I just scoop and enjoy it.
A while ago you did a video about what made a difference in taste when using an aero press, things like wetting the filter paper, and for me this is the same. I can't taste a difference, so it's not worth the fuss.
I’ve been scooping for decades. My key to consistency is using the same scoop. Before watching this channel if I ever lost that scoop in a move or something I would be screwed. A different scoop would definitely mess me up. But I have since weighed my coffee grams per liter to know where I like my ratio and I keep using my scoop.
It would be ridiculous for James to make a video about a glorified spoon, which is *exactly* why we should've expected this video
oh man, I would never make coffee with using a spoon to measure.
@@FusionDeveloper that's what a scoop is though...
I feel like James was hurt by a scoop at some point in his life
Probably something like this: th-cam.com/video/9VDvgL58h_Y/w-d-xo.html
The scoop looks sorry about what it did
@@cedrichero1 death by scoop! 😂
James, show me on the doll where the scoop hurt you.
@@cedrichero1 what a blast from the past that was
I appreciate your love for weighing out your doses. That's the science of making a great cup of coffee, and it's brilliant. For some things I'll do that, like when making more coffee than I normally would for guests. However when it's just me, working with a single bloodshot eye in the early morning, my practiced hands can dose out ~5 scoops of beans with relative consistency for the morning grind, and that works pretty consistently with my electric kettle of water filled to the max fill line. There will absolutely be variance from day to day but not so much as one might think. And to me at least, that's the art of coffee. The little imperfections and variances that make each delicious cup one-of-a-kind, more or less. Or at least that's my post-hoc rationalization for my morning laziness. :)
Very interesting results! When I was a kid, my grandmother would get me to help bake cookies and such (which of course had many happy rewards when done). One of the things she was a stickler on was leveling a measurement, particularly measuring spoons and cups. When I got older, my grandfather showed me a bit on loading black powder rifles and reloading ammunition, and it was the same thing: ALWAYS level your powder measure. By the time I was taking proper science classes, levelling a measured amount of material was already second nature. Recipes that call for a "heaping _________full of ..." really annoy me because, as you mentioned, what I can heap on my measuring tool can be quite different from yours simply because of the shape. All that to say that I level my measures of both beans and grounds, which does result in reasonably consistent and repeatable volume and mass, even when using a scale. Certainly close enough to only need to "fine tune" with a scale (I only have a manual grinder, and very basic brewing equipment).
I use a scoop every day.
I carefully scoop my beans out of my air tight container and gentle tip them into my scales.
me lol
Buying a scale was definitely the best improvement for my kitchen, my coffee and my diet. But people do give me a weird look when they find out I weight not only coffee, but every ingredient for every dish. I guess you have to be an engineer to get exited about precision and consistency 😆.
I don't even think you need to be an engineer to appreciate not having to do as many dishes or clean as many tsp/tbsp/ml/cup measuring cups. I like scales because it means less clean up and a more minimalist approach to my setup.
I do it only when a bake
I bought a proper digital scale when i needed it for a specific diet. Once we started measuring stuff both me and my wife never stopped, and now most ingredients will be weighed in all our food. All the way down to the individual components in my breakfast yoghurt with muesli, raisins and fresh fruit. It gives awesome consitancy and you never deal with an *oops, i put in to much by mistake *
@@Megacheez
It's notable though that some people like variance and "happy accidents"...
I'm not one of those people typically, before my wife moved in I would measure the components of my breakfast and batch cook meals for the week etc. We don't share the same focus on consistency so there have been some changes since 🤷♂️
@@BenHC I wouldn't say they like the variance and happy accidents but it's more that they couldn't care less if there is a little more or less of something as long as it doesn't ruin the dish.
I feel like the test is flawed. Virtually all people using a scoop to make good coffee are using the same scoop every time, have used it hundreds or thousands of times and are way way better than a random person using an unknown scoop.
Some brews I do by weight, some by volume (shocker) and others I do (the horror) by scoops using a table spoon. I think with the spoon my variance would be comfortably
One way to also try to reduce variance: scoop and “pack” then level. Weigh. Do it again and see if the weight changes. Then one more time. So you can see if you can be consistent when you scoop and pack it then level it off.
No less, the scoop in his left hand was made for the Aeropress to dispense the correct amount of grounds for said Aeropress
@@jomsies Except there's really not, as James admitted in this very video
I have graduated as an analytical chemist but I work as a chemical engineer so I hate volumetric measurements but I also know that if you eliminate most variables and if you calibrate your machines correctly...volumetric is fully viable dosing technique and it's cheaper to incorporate into older production lines.
It's even more pronounced in my currenct company where corrosive dusts tend to destroy tensors of any scale device much faster than expected.
You hit the nail on the head when you said "if you're paying attention". This is true in almost all aspects of all life pursuits. If you pay attention, I'm sure a great cup of coffee can be made with a tuna-can scoop, tin foil funnel, and an old tee-shirt for a filter (all rights reserved).
It sounds like that method has a backstory.
"Measure twice, scoop once"
Fling zero times. Incinerate negative once.
Once you dial in a scoop for a specific coffee it is quite accurate. There is something nice to just making a coffee without a scale and without thinking about the numbers. Sorry James please don't hate me.
Yeah. If you use the same scoop for the same coffee and grind, you've eliminated enough variables in my mind, but I like trying all sorts of different coffees so I just use a scale...
But then what about the water? How do you measure that and know you've done it right? I guess in an inverted Aeropress or a cafetiere it could work by drawing a line...
I genuinely don't understand the "without a scale and without worrying about the numbers". What's to be worried about something that gives you the piece of mind of not guessing? Numbers are our friends, they make our modern world possible :)
Sounds a lot like tea culture. I read a post yesterday where someone said something like, "When brewing tea, you have to learn to let go of worrying about all the variables, since there are too many outside of your control." Of course, they're mostly talking about origin and chemical reactions.
@@dcashley303 I'll just use the numbers on the aeropress. It works absolutely fine. I do use a scale most of the time but it really doesn't make a difference when I don't.
Mom's recipe (always came out perfect) - 1 slightly rounded "scoop" per "cup" + 1 scoop more for the pot. James should do a video on "the cup" since it's also not standardized! for US it's 5oz, 6oz or 8oz depending on what you're talking about (coffee, coffee or water). From what I understand the 6oz "cup" is the standard tea cup. 5oz cup is based on using 6oz water and getting 5oz of coffee out. The video we all need - James making a "pot" of coffee measued in "scoops" of coffee and "cups" of water and then measing the resulting output.
This is very well timed for me. I'm going away for the weekend and have been working on my accuracy for scooping all week. Basically comparing my scoop to my scale, and am able to scoop the 17g I like to use very easily now. Scales are still going to be easier in most circumstances, especially when using a new-to-me coffee, but for my standard beans, I'm confident in my scooping skills!
The variance is what makes coffee so good! It's the "surprise!" that's the spice of life
Ahhh so true! I don’t go to multiple different roasters/ shops to taste a consistent standard coffee! Same thing at home
This is true for quite a lot of people, in my experience. Also, they have deliberately chosen not to be fussy about coffee.
There's variance enough even without that additional tier of imprecision.
"The Coffee Scoop" sounds like a 90s sitcom episode title.
It sounds like a coffee news website to me. 😉
"The one with the coffee scoop"
You should have also done the following:
1. Ask the participants to now scoop "half a scoop" and "a third of a scoop" and see what the variations are and if they are accurate.
2. Show how much a scoop of ground coffee weighs in comparison to a scoop of whole beans.
Why would anyone ever have a reason to scoop a "half scoop"? Just use a smaller scoop if you wanted a smaller scoop.
I’m with Liliana on this one. I use 20 grams in my espresso, because I like the taste of that dose. But how do I consistently get that specific dose with a scoop? Because half scoops will be more difficult to consistently hit… Or how do I even find my preferred dose using a scoop? Or should I own 5 different scoops so that with those scoops I can consistently hit the most common dose options by always using full scoops?
With the coffee I use at this moment, 20 grams is a nice dose and if I can consistently get that dose using (lets say) two volumes of my regular scoop, I’m in the safe zone. But what do I do when I realise I need to, for example, lower my dose to work with a different coffee? Do I look at my graph of scoops and volumes to come to know I need three volumes of a certain smaller scoop, which I have to also own?
The answer is simple: No, you need a scale. Unless of course you’re fine with whatever coffee a dose of two, three or four scoops provides. In which case I wonder what you’re even doing watching this channel.
@@derkrodermond7491 most people already have several different sized scoops, they're called measuring spoons. tablespoons and teaspoons, in quarter increments. before digital scales they were all you had to measure small amounts, and they worked fine.
@@isthatrubble My coffee scoop has lines for 8 10 and 12 grams though not sure how accurate they are since i use a scale 🤔
James started this channel out so professional and reserved, but I love the campy route he's taking now
Anything else here, Amber???
“You’re no worse than a ground coffee scooper” how dare you lol
I know. The audacity of taking such liberties. Mr. Hoffman, you sir are no gentleman! 🕵️
This did not surprise me. Beans from a single source/batch will have variance in size, true, but so will the degree to which ground coffee is compacted by previous scoopers versus fluffed up by people who fastidiously level each scoop, not to mention moisture uptake if you were doing the test over multiple days. I'd actually expect whole beans to be marginally more consistent in that setting.
I use the coffee scoop. To measure out an amount of laundry powder for my clothes washer and a coffee scoop is wonderful to portion out the dishwasher powder. For coffee, I weigh it out.
The key takeaway here is that when you make the same cup of coffee every morning with the same scoop every time, and with no thinking each time, you do it reflexively exactly the same. We hare creatures of habit, especially when we don't pay attention. As long as you do it the same way each time (no matter exactly how that way is), you'll end up with the same cup of coffee.
Which is why I measure by eye. I use a cheap hand brewer, the same filter, the same coffee, and the same amount of coffee, each day. And I don't need a scoop (or a weight) to see how much coffee is in the filter (granted, as long as I fill it the same way as the day before). Or that's a lie, I don't know HOW MUCH coffee is in there. I know that "this is the same as every other day", whatever that might be.
Granted, I have extensive training getting eye measurements right as I have been building traditional boats in a way that requires measurements by eye and feel due to it being more accurate than measurements by laser or ruler. Especially when measuring 3d shapes and curves in multiple directions at the same time. When you know how it is going to look, and have practiced it, your eyes are very good at telling you "this is right" and "this is wrong", despite being unable to tell you if it is 4,5 mm or 4,7 mm.
Honestly, I agree. Once you get used to your equipment or know what it looks like; for example, your scoop, you just know how much to get without having to measure it every time. Similar to remembering how to get to places you go often, it's just instincts when you go there but when someone asks for directions or the name of streets to that place, you can't answer it,
There's definitely a bit of nuance to the topic. When making coffee for myself, a scoop is all I need. When making it for someone else, or when someone else is for me, a scale is definitely needed.
Am I the only one who enjoys the thrill of unpredictable variation? Having brews of varying strength allows you to experience the same coffee in different ways, which to my sick little mind is way more fun than getting the exact same experience every single time.
It's all about your priorities. I prefer having a great experience nailed down and recreating it so I can just relax and enjoy myself when I drink it.
Initially I was really excited cause I thought someone made a coffee scoop and called it Nemesis, which I would instantly buy. Having reread the title I'm still excited, but my wallet has just been sheathed.
I love it when James goes off on one like this. It is always with such passion and feeling. Love it! Thanks for yet another fun, interesting and, dare I say, useful video :)
I love my scoop. But I use it the same every time and I have weighed out how much my scoop delivers so I know what I am getting. At 6 in the morning I really don't want to use a scales... I just want to scoop, skim, brew and drink and the scoop makes that easy for me.
Having said that I can see the issue with scoops when not used with care and I am with James on this... unless you pre-weigh a scoop how you use it and then use it consistently every time they are a recipe for disaster!
I love watching this channel, and I love the experimentation that takes place, but also my normal before work coffee is just two units of instant crystals, two units of sugar, enough hot water to dissolve both, and then combining that with enough ice cold milk to fill a large mug. One unit being however much I naturally scoop up with a soup spoon, because a super basic super cheap cafe latte like that this helps me through the shift and I like the taste well enough.
My takeaway here is that if you're a meticulous person, you might get a reasonable result with a scoop in situations where you don’t have a scale, like with an aeropress in the woods.
Assuming you're not the sort to Bripe.
I think it works if you use the same coffee and same scoop each time
Well if you’re in the woods maybe you have other priorities than perfect coffee 😆
friggin bripers.
I had a bripe dream last night
As someone mentioned - being consistent in filling the same amount of coffee into the scoop is one thing, but measuring with it 15/18/22 grams into v60 is another thing. Additionally scoops aren't shaped like cubes so half of its volume capacity will not be equal to half of its weight capacity. If I had to design a scoop it would be a cube.
What I love about your channel is the insane attention to detail on such an unimportant topic. I find it therapeutic to think about this nearly pointless hobby and just let go of everything else that induces any stress. On the topic of scooping, my scale battery died a couple weeks ago and I’ve been dosing my flair signature with unground beans in the empty basket. I’ve had many delicious cups with this method even though I can tell it’s not particularly consistent.
I am not measuring coffee with scales. It's just not that hard to get it about right by eye and the inconsistant results are variety not error. I'm not running a production line or entering competitions though ;)
James, let me soothe your pain a little. I scoop beans from the jar into a cup on a scale. I'll also use whatever coffee I have, no matter how old it is. (Not by choice, I promise.)
The day I finished an old, stale batch of coffee beans and opened a fresh bag and continued scooping was eye-opening. The older beans were significantly lighter than the new ones. My scoop went from 9 grams to 12 grams, with no change in the way I scooped or the volume inside the scoop.
Volumetric measurements are terrible.
I have also experienced this. Older beans lose a LOT of weight compared to when you first opened a bag. In my case, I noticed that over time the weight of the beans on each scoop went down, and I had to scoop just a little bit more to match what I could achieve 2 or 3 days ago with the same scoop volume.
I like baking. I used to buy books for the general public. It had me measuring things by volume. My baking was only as consistent as my ability to measure ingredients; even when using fixed size measuring spoons. Then I went to the bookstore of a professional cooking school and bought books from there. All the recipes measured things by weight. It was SOOOO much easier to have consistent results in my baking. I can completely see that this is true for coffee as well.
Yes! Scrolled till I found this comment. If we measure other ground powders (like flour for baking) more accurately by weight than by volume, then why not so for coffee, too? I have seen folks attempt consistency in volume measurement of flour by sifting, then spooning flour into the measuring scoop (as opposed to scooping with the scoop itself since that would inconsistently compact the flour) before leveling it off with a knife or spatula. I suppose you could do the same for coffee, but it seems like a lot of work, especially first thing in the morning/before coffee, when you could just measure by weight and not think about it like James says.
My parents think I'm stupid for not having a "scoop". But I use what we call a rouchly translated "foodspoon" may be a English term for it, 15ml and is found in every kitchen together with dl and table spoon measurement.
I know it and it is allways the same, kitchen to kitchen, 99% of the time it is the IKEA one too so even the identical one
I don't use scoops or scales. I use turns. My ancient grinder with a big handle.... 26 turns for 1 coffee. 48 turns for two. Super consistent results.
This could have gone deeper. How does the mass of a “scoop” of ground coffee vary across roasts or grind settings?
Not to mention difference in density of beans according to their location of origin. HUGE difference! A bag of Brazillian peaberry feels significantly more full than a bag of, say, a high altitude Guatemalan, even if they weigh the same.
As someone who uses a scoop to add beans onto a scale, I've also noticed that the weight of a scoop of coffee beans decreases over time as coffee gets older, I've had to scoop just a little extra to match the weight I could get with the same scoop volume 2-3 days ago.
@@TexelGuy interesting. and what’s the cause of that decreasing weight??
@@KAFaye-nk5tl The only thing that comes to mind is CO2, the degassing process could explain it. I've seen the same volume of beans weigh about 2-2.5 grams less than when I first opened up the bag after about 2-3 weeks, so while being as consistent as possible with my scooping technique, what used to be a max 15 gram scoop could weigh less than 13 grams. I thought I was crazy at first, but it really does happen.
@@TexelGuyI really doubt that you lost 2 grams of co2 in a 15 gram measure. I doubt that you would lose 2 grams in a 15 kilogram measure.
My main argument for scales, is that they can be used for more than just coffee. I bought a digital scale for coffee, and it quickly became my go-0to way of measuring just about everything. I rarely touch the various sized measuring spoons anymore (I live in the US so we use the whole teaspoon, tablespoon, cups things, each of them having fractional ones as well like a spoon for 3/4 tablespoon, etc) Instead of fussing around with 5 or so different measuring spoons at a time, rinsing them between different ingredients if needs be, I use a single device, I put the container on the scale, I zero it out, I put in the amount in grams and I take it off the scale and put the next one on. Or if the ingredients are to be mixed together I just zero it out after each ingredient and measure directly into the bowl. I only use the measuring spoons when making a recipe that doesn't provide weight units, in which case I measure out the ingredients onto a scale using the spoons/cups so I can convert the recipe into weights, and then I can fine tune it by adjusting the weights the next time if I want to change something.
With volume measurements there's usually slight differences between dry and wet measuring spoons, with some ingredients like flour or brown sugar the same volume will be different depending on how fine the flour is, the type of flower, and for the brown sugar as well the amount you compact it. By weight it doesn't matter 40 grams is 40 grams and my cooking and baking has been more consistent and repeatable. It's so much nicer than having to deal with tons of separate measuring vessels. I'd consider a decent scale as an essential kitchen appliance at this point. The fact that it's useful for far more than just coffee makes me confused why people seem opposed to getting one. I've gotten so much use out of the one I bought that it's paid for itself hundreds of times over in time alone.
Yeah cooking/ baking by weight is so much easier.
The fact that this video exists says so much about James.
The fact that I watched it says so much about me.
The real question is measuring by volume, versus measuring by weight. Different coffees and different roasts have different densities.
Two 15gram doses of different coffees will have different volumes of coffee, and therefore different surface areas during the brewing, requiring adjusting grind size, etc.
Weighing your coffee is probably the best, but it's not perfect.
It's the same for different flours when cooking or baking which is why I prefer to weigh dry ingredients vs the 'scoop and dump' method.
I really don't get the point of measuring a solid ingredient by volume. There are so many possible variables that might make 2 identical volumes of the same substance quite different in weight. Why take the chance in the 1st place? It's not that a scale is such a rare and hard thing to find 😂
@@un_lucio Yes, that's the point! Identical weights can be different volumes. But the volume of coffee is an important variable in the brewing.
@@benjaminland9573 Oh pardon: my question was really in general. I don't really know how I got to this video, I kept watching it because the guy seems funny 🤣
For coffee I've been thought that it's about weight and not volume because chemistry: solutions are defined as a molar mass ratio, which is weight and not volume. But I really only know it because I'm Italian. By the end of the day, I'm not a chemist and I don't even drink coffee :P.
My genuine curiosity is why to use volumes to measure ingredients in recipes in the 1sdt place. It's not easier nor more convenient than using a scale, and it doesn't yield a better result. But really it's just a curiosity, then as far as I'm concerned everybody is free do to cook as they're pleased as long as their don't hinder someone else :)
@@un_lucio I don't know why but I find it much more satisfying to make a good cup without my scale. If I happen to be out without the scale and have my scoop and weighed it before out with that particular roast then it makes a good cup still and satisfies that risk-reward side of my brain
This is how I know this channel is legit. And I'm a total youngster/amateur in coffee. Despite bias, there's an outlook on both sides of the subject. Very educational and entertaining at the same time.
What I love is that you clearly love coffee and are not very judging of how people enjoy their coffee. Subbed.
I currently use 6-7 flat tbsp (30-35 grams) ground coffee to ~500ml (usually a little more) boiling water.
French press.
5min steep, stir the top & skim, 10min steep.
Per your video on perfect French press technique! Thank you, Mr. Hoffman! You really know your beans.
Amazing video as usual. Can’t believe I am sitting here wondering did he consider the influence of humidity, or settling of the grinds over time to explain the tail of data to the right for the grinds. And wondering if the same was true in the bean data…
10am, coffee in hand, and I’m analyzing the “science” of coffee scoops.
Well done Mr. Hoffmann 👏 Well done.
at this rate we'd see the next round of testing in a temperature/humidity controlled room and an analytical scale
I'll watch anything James Hoffman now even its only about him talking about coffee scoops. 😂
As someone who only used a filtercoffee machine to make coffee at home for like 20 years with the same scoop I have developed a very accurate sense of how big of a scoop will produce a coffee that meets my taste.
Viewing my first Hoffmann vid. My first thought was , wait he’s British! What do they know about coffee. As I watched more I gained a real appreciation for your coffee knowledge. Thank you so much!
Coffee is like anything else we consume. If it is pleasing to the senses we love and want more and if not we are frustrated about what’s wrong with it. I never pretend to love a good cup of coffee. That love for if is natural and real.
Thank you James.
I use my aeropress scoop to transfer coffee beans from my jar to my scales. Quite consistently actually.
I usually weigh but recently went camping and just took the scoop. Amazingly everything was fine. Coffee was decent. World didn't end.
I feel like if someone uses the same scoop every morning for a while, they can get pretty much the same amount of coffee every time without paying attention or thinking much about it.
True - but if I want, say 14g for an Aeropress or 30 grams for a Chemex, and I have an 8 gram scoop... those are not easily divisible. Unless you have, like, a perfect 5g scoop, I feel like it's be a pain being consistent enough across different methods of brewing.
@@Grumpist1 I doubt you'd scoop if you are making coffee using g/l
I am proof of this.
The real advantage is for people who brew larger batches, because the variance of 10 scoops is far smaller than the variance of 1 even using the same technique (law of not-that-large numbers, but it does begin to come into play!)
@@Grumpist1 Just brew a 16g Aeropress or a 32g Chemex.
All excellent points. But as for dealing with something accurately in the groggy morning time, scoops become muscle memory. A scale is always a bit more fiddly, requires closer attention, while a scoop (a person’s specific scoop) gets me to a standard brew with as much or little variation as the coffee has in its growth, season, and roast - three things I can’t account for, even with the finest scale used precisely each day. That tiny bit of variation via scoop matters much less for a standard brewed coffee than for an espresso.
Of much bigger import to a good and even standard (per taste) cup of coffee is bean variety, roast, grind, water temperature, general ratio (which you execute well on your own equipment day after day). Precisely dose and brew the same amount of Folgers and awaken to what really makes a difference in a cup of coffee.
Scoop is a rough tool you can learn to use in a more refined application, but there’s a limit on its quality and consistency.
For the everyday morning coffee, the variance in my scoop is well within the bounds of "acceptable" coffee.
For precision coffee making, I scoop, and then adjust the water based on how much I actually scooped. (Helps to have a scale do the calculation) So the variance gets placed in the volume, not in the strength/flavor.
Three cheers for "acceptable" coffee. It's fun to know the technique to get the most out of the beans. But first thing in the morning, or in general we shouldn't grumble about how the coffee could be "better" if we enjoy the cup we made.
And you do this before your morning coffee!
I feel like a lot of the variability of the scoop would come more from the coffee you're scooping than from technique. Different sizes of beans, different grind sizes, etc. will all lead to different scoop weights.
To a large extent yes, but the finer you grind, the mote potential you have for compaction resulting in varied results.
This reminds me of baking tutorials that tell you when you measure flour you should never put the measuring cup in the flour bag, but instead fluff up the flour and pour the flour into the measuring cup. Then flatten with a straightedge. I imagine coffee grounds would be similar - if you want an exact weight measurement every time.
Here’s where a scoop works for me, a totally unsophisticated coffee drinker: I make the same 1-cup French press of coffee once per day and have determined the scoop quantity needed for my desired cup. No need for weighing, because I’m a total creature of habit and don’t vary the pot that I make (or which scoop I use). Other than that, I agree with what you’re saying,
Rejected title: POV - James handles you and stuffs you into a bag of coffee
I use my Aeropress scoop to weigh my coffee beans before grinding it. It’s always 18-19 grams.
Which is about 5% variance.
If people are getting results that divergent, it implies that they either have a broken scoop, or they don't know how to use a scoop. A range like that would be pushing it for flour, let alone coffee.
Whole-heartedly agree about this. Unless you're buying the same pre-ground coffee every time, using the scoop is hit and miss. For example the "standard" scoop for the manufacturers of preground coffee is I think 6 g, yet the scoop manufacturers don't respect that. I had a 7 g one and I think the one that comes with Moccamaster sometimes is way bigger. Your scoops in all honesty look huge.
Now that 7 g scoop is what I used to measure coffee beans before I had a scale and it turned out that two times used "7 g" scoop nets you perhaps 8 grams of coffee as beans. Should've guessed with how much air there is with beans, but it also changes depending on how fine the preground is, so it's just never gonna be equal without weighing. I feel like the bean scooping balances out a bit because you have quite big units that differ much less than the individual unit itself. You can quite clearly see if you have a full extra layer of beans. And an individual bean still weighs something like 0,1-0,2 grams and you're using perhaps 15 grams to make coffee.
Now for every day home use it's not a disaster because you learn to use it, like adding a slight extra after measuring the preground with the scoop or little less, depending on your experience of what works. The same scoop, the same preground coffee from day to day, same amount of coffee made as well. And for your average worker or mom it doesn't matter if the coffee this morning had 1-2 grams more or less. Might not taste it either. It's the average market coffee anyway that they use to fuel their brain, not to treat their taste buds. Case in point, my mom loves different coffees and their nuances, but at times she might just pour straight from the bag guessing what's half a litre of coffee worth.
Also if you've ever been to a lab measuring things by volume for example, you know how to use the measuring tools - how to fill the container with liquid to be accurate or how to use solids so with something ground coffee of the same type it's not unexpected that some people are good at repeating it. Like using a 1 dl measuring cup for oatmeal every morning and making it an even measure, not just scooping randomly and using whatever you end up with. But it's just not something you can predict well if you have variables in volume. If the exact amount doesn't matter to you, you can still repeat it consistently if you use the same product. Yet if you need any measure outside the exact unit of a coffee scoop you have, give up.
I was hoping James would touch on the variable density of different beans/roasts. Somewhat counterintuitively, the results might actually favor using volumetric measurement (scoops). Generally, as roasting level increases density decreases but percentage of soluble material increases. So when dosing by weight, darker roasts will produce more intense coffee for equal weight because a greater percentage of their mass will be soluble. Alternatively, dosing by volume would serve to counteract this effect, since darker roasts will also be less dense. So if the goal is consistent intensity across different beans, there may be an argument for careful volumetric dosing. It would be interesting to see the comparison of the variability in soluble material per unit volume to the variability in soluble material per unit mass.
This would make a great video topic in the future! I knew darker roasts were less dense but always saw that as an argument for dosing by weight. I didn't know that the % soluble material increased.
I feel that this might be more "weighty" than the argument of variations between different users using the same scoop. The roast does make a significant difference. Would love to see a separate video on this topic as well.
James doesn't acknowledge that anything other than light roasts exist.
My nemesis: James' upload schedule 😪
Ikr? Everytime I expect another upload there is none. But sometimes I get surprised by several uploads in a short period of time when I am not expecting it, which makes me feel happy then.
His T-shirt changed but his hair didn’t. That’s brilliant. 😂
Great video. I'm glad you didn't let your bias dictate the scope of the experiment.
People laugh at me for weighing the coffee (and water) I use, but they are always impressed with the results.
Keep up the good work.
This is the exact kind of commitment to principles that keeps me watching these videos.
I feel like my scoop is somehow more accurate than my £10 scale...
That's true for many inexpensive scales. I got a letter returned to me more than once because it was too heavy even though I had weighed it on my kitchen scale. And once the batteries are starting to drain, the results are getting even more inconsistent. I would be lost without a scale when it comes to Magarogype -- they are simply too large.
James' mission of total scoop domination has been foiled for today. He'll be back
I'm with you on this one. I weight my water and coffee before either of them get near my French press.
I love the way you talk about coffee :) I enjoy so much the technical way you are able to talk about coffee and so many things that go along with it. Thank you from a fellow coffee lover. I will sleep better this evening because of your videos.
I had an espresso every time he mentioned scoop and I'm BUZZING!
There are some great out loud laugh moments! Perfect morning vid