Thanks for sharing. When you say the noise cancels out on frame averaging presumably not to the extent relative to taking 3 or 4 shots at base ISO and stitching them together.
Actually the averaging should help noise removal more and more. I think it is at about 40 shots that it still improves but at that point you have diminishing returns from the noise perspective. But there are other reasons to average too. Because the averaging help remove the random noise a frame averaged shot will always have at least some less noise as a similar single shot. There is some math involved if you want to change the ISO from those example to compare them. But shoot as low as possible and then FA will help further after that!
Frame averaging has its uses, no question. But, I wonder if there would have been any difference if you just shot a single frame with a 30 second exposure with an ND (but, of course, the whole point is that you don't need an ND). IMHO, the cameras that need frame averaging are those with small sensors. You know, you really are tempting me to buy a medium format camera... ;-)
Ha! Buying a medium format camera is a step you will not regret :) On your point: my impression from frame averaging is that it also significantly enhances dynamic range when it comes to highlights and shadows.
How big are Phase One 150MP raw files? I can't seem to find that information anywhere. I'm guessing at least 150MP if they're compressed but that is a guess. Here's the other question: When the Phase One XF IQ4 makes a 100 shot Automated Frame Averaging image, is this the math: "RAW frame size" * "number of frames" = AFA file size on the card. Or is there some type of magic going on?
A raw file is about 140mb. There are samples to download one some of the vendors sites. The final FA file is a RAW and only as big as one single file, so the FA file is not bigger because of the frame averaging. Essentially it does the math while collecting the data, and doesn't show the preview or file on the media until the final file is done. The Dual Exposure+ tool does it differently and actually saves two different shots taken right after each other. You then combine them in C1
Is the frame averaging occurring in real time? How long does it take to average the 100+ images? Where are the images stored while the camera is taking the shots? Thanks for the interesting video.
Yes it is reading the sensor constantly, and the preview takes just a moment to review, just like a regular single still image. I'm not sure where they are stored. It would be interesting to learn from Phase One if it averages after each shot, then just has one master shot and one new shot, then averages it again. I assume the computer could do that with the right coding. And it seems like combining them all at the end would take longer than just a split second.
Or Pro - i use an XF which all in with the lenses still costs less than the machine lathe i was photographing a few weeks ago for an artist creating wooden ornaments - my old Fuji GFX100 is a far too a complex thing
20 years ago you cold buy for the Phase One plastic fantastic camera price a professional medium format camera and big Volvo . Now you only get a plastic camera that lose its value in a few years and is out dated in six months ..... and you have to walk in the rain .
Thanks for the video. You can show two images side by side in Capture One, both at the same time. So that would be a much easier way to compare.
Thanks for sharing. When you say the noise cancels out on frame averaging presumably not to the extent relative to taking 3 or 4 shots at base ISO and stitching them together.
Actually the averaging should help noise removal more and more. I think it is at about 40 shots that it still improves but at that point you have diminishing returns from the noise perspective. But there are other reasons to average too. Because the averaging help remove the random noise a frame averaged shot will always have at least some less noise as a similar single shot. There is some math involved if you want to change the ISO from those example to compare them. But shoot as low as possible and then FA will help further after that!
Frame averaging has its uses, no question. But, I wonder if there would have been any difference if you just shot a single frame with a 30 second exposure with an ND (but, of course, the whole point is that you don't need an ND). IMHO, the cameras that need frame averaging are those with small sensors.
You know, you really are tempting me to buy a medium format camera... ;-)
Ha! Buying a medium format camera is a step you will not regret :) On your point: my impression from frame averaging is that it also significantly enhances dynamic range when it comes to highlights and shadows.
Thank
you for your sharing.
How big are Phase One 150MP raw files? I can't seem to find that information anywhere. I'm guessing at least 150MP if they're compressed but that is a guess. Here's the other question: When the Phase One XF IQ4 makes a 100 shot Automated Frame Averaging image, is this the math: "RAW frame size" * "number of frames" = AFA file size on the card. Or is there some type of magic going on?
A raw file is about 140mb. There are samples to download one some of the vendors sites.
The final FA file is a RAW and only as big as one single file, so the FA file is not bigger because of the frame averaging. Essentially it does the math while collecting the data, and doesn't show the preview or file on the media until the final file is done.
The Dual Exposure+ tool does it differently and actually saves two different shots taken right after each other. You then combine them in C1
Is the frame averaging occurring in real time? How long does it take to average the 100+ images? Where are the images stored while the camera is taking the shots? Thanks for the interesting video.
Yes it is reading the sensor constantly, and the preview takes just a moment to review, just like a regular single still image. I'm not sure where they are stored. It would be interesting to learn from Phase One if it averages after each shot, then just has one master shot and one new shot, then averages it again. I assume the computer could do that with the right coding. And it seems like combining them all at the end would take longer than just a split second.
I found a better answer, in this video by Phase One, they talk about how it does it: th-cam.com/video/6B5Y2cE9mUk/w-d-xo.html
You have to be crazy or rich to choose P1 over Fuji
Or Pro - i use an XF which all in with the lenses still costs less than the machine lathe i was photographing a few weeks ago for an artist creating wooden ornaments - my old Fuji GFX100 is a far too a complex thing
20 years ago you cold buy for the Phase One plastic fantastic camera price a professional medium format camera and big Volvo . Now you only get a plastic camera that lose its value in a few years and is out dated in six months ..... and you have to walk in the rain .
100%. And a trip to Disneyland, deposit for a house, new bike for the kids. My Mamiya RZ cost 3K - this thing costs 60
@@nelsonclub7722 you’d have to be crazy buying this at retail price tho, probably 95% of phase one owners wrote it off with their company
@@tdg9281 I was being allegorical