Do We Need Religion To Create A Moral Society? (The Big Questions)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 มี.ค. 2012
- From King Edward VI Handsworth School in Birmingham, Nicky Campbell presides over the debate: Do we need religion to create a moral society? Guests include the philosopher Stephen Law, Bishop of Birmingham Rt Rev David Urquhart, Islamic law consultant Khola Hasan, former NBA player turned activist John Amaechi, born again Christian Michael Johnson, journalist and writer Myriam Francois Cerrah, Muslim convert and law student Susan Snushall and Sunday Mirror journalist Anthony Clavane. (BBC The Big Questions, 25th March 2012)
"If People are good because they fear punishment and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed.” - Albert Einstein.
"True Morality is doing what is right without the threat of divine retribution nor the possibility of divine reward." - Arthur Paliden
Hell is not to deter wrong deeds, it's to achieve justice and punish wrongdoers. The primary purpose of religion is not to scare you into doing good things. You're supposed to do good things because they're good. Religion is to answer questions of morality and give you guidance into what is good and bad beyond the obvious don't kill and steal.
MrTimmy23 "Religion" means to revive ones' relationship with God, the 24/7, eternal Absolute Truth. To quit the eternal cycle of birth and death, the cycle of ignorance.
MrTimmy23 Hell is a fabrication of people because WE demand justice...not some higher power. The original scripts never spoke of hell they spoke of a shoel which was literally a land of the dead. People turned it into a place of torture because people demanded justice for those bad people. The whole idea of hell is laughable and proves how petty people are that they want to hold on to some idea that bad acts are punished and good ones rewarded. Truth is, that's just our hope and there is no proof of any of it. You hope the person who murdered hundreds isn't going to end up in the same place as you who devoted your life to others so to make people feel warm and fuzzy, hell was created. If any of you actually read the OT in it's original biblical hebrew you'd be shocked to see how poorly translated the bible you know is. There is no justice and there is no hell...except in your mind and that simply doesn't prove anything.
***** no it wasn't. There is no "hell". There was never a reference to it in the OT nor was it ever identified as a place where bad people get punished. it was only after people demanded justice for sinners and bad people that writers took special liberty to create a place where bad people are tortured for bad things. I find your lack of knowledge on your own religion very telling. I guess I don't get how people are willing to devote their entire lives to some silly belief without also taking some interest in learning more about what was originally said and learning to read the original biblical hebrew. What reason other than pure laziness do you have to spend so much of your life believing a religion that you've clearly never taken the time to study or research more to know there is no reference to hell in the OT? you are clearly lazy and ignorant and willing to accept whatever any religious leader dishes out to you. Pathetic.
+Are_You_Serious? I'm not a christian. I don't believe in the Old testament as from God, so whatever it says has no bearing on this discussion. Yes, I hope there is justice. Of course I do. That doesn't in any way mean that what I hope is not there. the concept of Hell is not laughable, it makes logical sense that God will punish those who do wrong and reward those who do good, otherwise, why would he tell us what to do and not to do.
"Do We Need Religion To Create A Moral Society?"
The question should be
"Is it possible for a religious society to be moral?"
ya its nescessary for society to have a fair religion to be more moral. and the religion is more needed than laws but we need to make the laws runing with religion.
ZAIN GHANNAM HAH super-wrong
If we have a law that happens to match your book, does that mean the book is the cause of the law?
Leonidas Black yea i wasnt speaking directly to you either. It was just a comment out in the air
no to 1, yes to 2
Short answer: No
Long answer: Hell no!
Trond Brother just ask your self one question ; what would you do when you and where will you go and what is going to happen and answer them very patiently coz think about the people who had died and didn't not come back and nether will come back coz once you died then there is no coming back so better ask these questions and answers it on your own or u can ask other aswell but ask those who are positive about these questions. You know what, now we are here and we chance to retern to the true God not Jesus a true God I don't have to tell you, you have to look at it and choose it for you and read all the books so u can find out which one is good for you Coz after death no one will have the chance to return. Allah in English most people says God will says to you I gave you the chance but you didn't bother on it so now go to hell and then you will be for whole your life Coz that life doesn't finishes at all . May Allah grant you to the right oath
Even longer answer. No, No, No, No, No, NO, NO, NO, (ad infinitum)
@Ricardo B. Do you attend Church services? Churches in the UK are being sold or demolished left right and centre because no one attends their services.
Personally I find Islam As ridiculous As any other religion, and call me a "leftard" to my face gammon boy, and you'll see just how f***ing godless I am.....
I was brought up in an Atheist family and I like to think I have good morals. They are inherent to all species for survival. If you don't know that you know nothing.
True that, we simply have to cooperate in the same way an ant colony has to cooperate. We wud die in days without it
It's not about that. One person can have an amazing moral compass, be raised with amazing skills in personal interaction, whereas you can have a bigoted Christian family raise a child on nothing more than Leviticus and teach them to hate.
Religion is a tool, a glue that adheres many people together in common understanding and help teach each other right from wrong. It's almost like socialism in a way, a unity of the people working together to accomplish a goal. In this case; a moral society. Do you require religion for a moral society? For the most part, I believe so. I'm a self-claimed agnostic. I don't feel like I need to be tethered by teachings in a book, but I can't disagree what these bronze age stories TEACH people. Murder is wrong, do unto others as you'd do to yourself, don't steal, don't cheat, don't lie. These are all things religion teaches and imparts on people. If people need the approval of the society they've willingly accepted, I don't find anything wrong with it. Religion only oversteps its boundaries when it becomes involved in politics or becomes something people feel entitled to throw around. Unfortunately, with the advent of the internet, we only hear the loudmouths and not enough of the kindness you CAN see from the various religions around the world.
andylikesyourkite Most of the religions stand in opposition to each other and can not work together. This is no way to improve the moral.
The religous books are packed with stories (education) that are very unmoral with todays standards.
Religion is a threat to a sound moral.
Anders Karlsson That's probably religion's only redeeming quality, the fact that they can never unite... They would have to murder all competition before they could successfully enslave us all again. And by the time they'd be done, there would hardly be anyone left of them ;)
*****
From the evolutionary point of view we have the patterns of behaviour that survived.
There are strange patterns. Why does a fox kill all the hens in a den, when one should be enough?
How does that equate to survival?
I think you think, it is good because it is a natural thing.
But there are a lot of things not fit for survival. They just survived.
When has Religion, whenever put in power in society ever been helpful?
*****
LOL
Well if one is in darkness, how can he proclaim light? Justice on man's scale is still wrong w/o God's might, to show us what hides behind the veil, sin or salvation the latter the only escape from man's plight, one brag's about his intelligence, his lack of need for the sublime, while standing at death's door, what will deliver him from the crime, of nullifying God's Truths for mans temporal existence, man's need's the Transcendent, to deliver him from the predicament, Providence is the word not a city and faith unlocks the door, to place humanity in favor with God and His peaceful shore, Remember our minds have been blighted and our spirits are dull of sway, But with trust in God's Holy Son salvation is just a prayer away! It's not about religion, but the atonement of the One, regardless of man's morality, he is still without redemption, a sinner is his nature, noble as he may claim, their is only one way to be save and it is through the name that is above every name! His Name is Jesus, Yeshua Ha Mashiach
Will Thompson ...Eh? Did you not read my comment? Religion whenever put in charge of lawful or political affairs has always ruined individual lives. Forcing age 11 daughters to marry aged slobs, facility rape, etc.
And, no... Humans are not inherently evil they are progressively good/bad. But I digress, we're not discussing the legitimacy of your religion, or where our morals come from.
Will Thompson
Your religion makes you believe that all humans are evil sinners?
What a truly disgusting religion you have,
The Middle Ages, The church preserved Western knowledge and social organization.
Look at the guy holding up his hand to say something the entire time hahaha
👆🏻
🙋🏼♂️
This irritated me so much.
Oil? The Middle East was so peaceful before oil was discovered !?!
And what place has always been peaceful?
Yes. In fact It was the most peaceful part of the planet before the invasion of the United States. Traced back to 1700s-1800s.
***** Lol. Doesnt matter, Truth has no religion.
I want Emma Stone's babies Says your tiny brain.
Anonymous its fact even if your a Muslim. Muhammad beheaded 400-500 jews. If my brain is tiny yours doesnt exist
Morality is not a religious construct, so that question is moot.
It is.
@@ijya6413 No, It isn't. Morality existed long before any notion of religion existed. & we have evidence of this fact.
@@drakocarrion evidence?
@@ijya6413 Yes. Evidence. You know. That stuff theists don't have at all for their claims.
@@drakocarrion 😂😂expected from you.
I know I should be tolerant to religion. I realise that everyone has the right to believe whatever they want. Trouble is, the older I get, the more I find the religious so utterly irrational that I can hardly bear to listen to their nonsense for more than 2 minutes.
***** Should we be tolerant to communists? You can't be serious! In fact, you are surely American, as only the US has this bizarre paranoia about communism. And although I dislike religion, I would never compare a Christian to a Nazi. Come on!
Me too!
Good point
***** You say that 'while it (religion) lasts, it protects people from all this hate'. Explain what that means.
***** It is clear that humans need some sort of code to live by and relate to each other. There is increasing pressure for such code to be internationally accepted and it should be based upon sensible verifiable values.
The battle is to prevent clanism, cultism or gang mentality, religious or otherwise, from taking root in human minds and societies. Whether such clanism is Christian, Islamic, Jewish, Mormon, Scientologist or some other flavor of nutty ice cream, problems invariably result at the "clan interface". This can now be observed in Europe with the Muslim influx that in my opinion should NOT have been allowed. The problem of clan conflict can be observed as we speak in Israel/Palestine and has been raging since forever. Hose of an Israeli and a Palestinian in the shower and you can't tell the difference - two middle eastern people with big noses and short tempers - and WE ALL have to pay for their ridiculous nonsense predicated upon entities that do not in reality exist.
I don't know about you, but I have seen and had enough.
In a world without religion (cultism), good people do good things and bad people do bad things. If you want good people to do bad things, that takes religion (cultism).
It's time for us to think. Time for us to think rationally. Time to stop the relinquishing of our critical thinking in favor of conceptual entities, the existence of which, we cannot validate.
There's only one ultimate source of morality in this world and that is empathy.
Wrong. Different cultures believe in different notions of honor, dignity, rights, justice.
I am a longtime educator, and believe that empathy is and must be the highest educational experience.
I am so amazed to see John Amaechi, former NBA player, now as an organizational psychologist....you rock Johnny!!!!!!
That one woman, who was wearing the black hijab, is pretty confused. Her problem with the "philosophical approach" is that it is "one person's word against another." The host then pressed her about a moral issue--wearing the hijab--and she immediately said the other woman is not immoral for not wearing one. Why? Because her religion is her "personal belief." Wow, looks like her position does not solve relativism or subjectivism, at all. If she studied more philosophy, specifically logic, perhaps she would not have made a such a terrible argument.
Well she got confused there. She knew she fucked up but somehow tried to get out of it.
Yeah she messed up big time on that one
Can we focus on what her actual argument before getting questioned out of nowhere, she said if religion was gone it would just be one mans tongue going against another man there would be no one to submit to for authority therefore no true morals would exist.
"In Islam the use of critical reason is encouraged..." where? I would love to see that reference.
IGalactic I simple research and you can find hundred verses AT LEAST . quran 2:269 - 3:7 - 5 :100 - 13:19
30:21
And of His signs is that He created for you from yourselves spouses that you may find tranquillity in them; and He placed between you love and mercy. Indeed in that are signs for a people who give thought.
this verse proves darwin theory is bullshit and god created a sign for the people who give thought and it is that there is male and female from each kind . the evolution cant be true unless if you want to think that two defferent apes at the same time and same location evolved and one was male and the other was female and this two fell in love and created all the generation after them . god in the quran just gives you the signes so that you do the thinking with your own brain . its more logical to believe in adam and eve and a creator than believing in two defferent coancident that never happened in our history to be happened at the same time .
41:53
We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth. But is it not sufficient concerning your Lord that He is, over all things, a Witness?
39:9
Is one who is devoutly obedient during periods of the night, prostrating and standing [in prayer], fearing the Hereafter and hoping for the mercy of his Lord, [like one who does not]? Say, "Are those who know equal to those who do not know?" Only they will remember [who are] people of understanding.
ibrahim ayobi That is all so silly. That verse says nothing other than that "allah" created women for men. And if a mutation occurs, which is does frequently, especially when the population is in the millions such as birds or fish, you can still reproduce with the rest of the species. Or that's like saying someone with genetic blindness is no longer a human. When these mutations stack up, and when two groups get isolated long enough for them to evolve a lot differently, the two will not be able to reproduce, as they have no speciated into two new species. Not as soon as one randomly "evolves". Evolutionists don't think species just pop up like that, unlike theists. And that second one doesn't really say anything.
Stephen Essex i know what are you saying and mutation is really rare to happen and there is no prove that mutations led into a new spicies . but what quran said is that the god created men and women and love between them and that s one of the signs of his existance and he gave us brain and wants us to think .
do you believe two defferent series of mutations has happened that led to new spiecis that one was female and the other was male at the same time and same location ?
thats insanity man .
there is a chance that you play bingo at the same day and you win twice but how much is the posisbility ? its almost zero . the new spiecs has to be one male and one female at the same time and same location cos this two have to get married and create the next generation .
eventhough the mutation just led into a new colour or new feutures in the same species but a defferent species have defferent amount of chromosomes that cant bind with the new creature that s just mutated .
there is thousands of times more posibility that god created adam and eve at the same time and same location and this two creaed all the generations .
the kind of mutations that you re talking about will lead to a new genetic pool and separation but we re talking speceficely about humans and apes . the new human cant repruduce unless there is a male and female the same time otherwise they extinct
ibrahim ayobi Thanks for detailed response :) Mutations are not rare, virtually all of us have differences caused by mutation, this is called variation. If an animal gave birth to a child with a mutated lung, would this child be able to mate with another of its species? Of course it would, it's a lung. Now, if this mutation is beneficial, it will be preserved. If something happens in the environment making it very hard to survive without this lung mutation, only the mutants will survive. Then one of the mutants has another mutant, again it's a successful mutation, so now this population of animals have two mutations. Now, something environmental could cause a separation of the group into two smaller groups; an earthquake, for example. The two groups stack up mutations to adapt to the different environments they are in, until the two become so different that they can no longer reproduce. And as for number of chromosomes affecting reproduction, people suffering with Down's Syndrome are still able to reproduce.
I think it is more probable, and honest to the empirical facts we have, that we evolved. Remember how we used to pertain natural phenomena we could not explain, such as Thunder, to gods. The diversity of life is another natural process; evolution. It is more likely that we evolved over billions of years,than that a being complicated enough to design the whole universe, to monitor every particle of his/her creation 24/7, to hear and answer prayers. And that this omnipotent god has his/her message entrusted to some of the most underdeveloped communities of the time, and before the advent of video recording?
Stephen Essex i know all of that but i m specificy talking about humans and mutations that is cousing new species . fiest let me define species concept acording to ernest mayr :species are groups of interbreeding natural populations that are reproductively isolated from other such groups.
imagine a mutation create a human with red eyes in asia and that was beneficial . you cant say that we have a new species unless if they cant mate with someone that is from his parents kind .cos if they still can mate with a white blue eyed person that was in a defferent area like europ then they re just a new feuture that we already have in our gens . but its off in some people and went on in the others becouse of the mutations .
for example donkey and horse can mate and have mule but the mule cant repruduce itself so you cant say that we have new species cos the one mule will die without sharing his gens in the next generation s pool .
or the sheep and goat can mate and have baby but the new creature will die before 5 month .
no mater how much mutations accure in a one certain point you can say you have a new species ofter billions of years only if the new species cant mate with his parents kind in the defferent area in the world cos if they do then its not a new specie .
so in order that the new specie can repruduce itself it has to be a one male and one female at the same time and same location and love between this two that can result in reprucuction acording to the quran .
so mutations only add more feuturs in a the same spicies but the only way to create a new species is that two deffernt kind of mutations happen in two defferent creatures that will create two new creature from the same kind and this two can mate while they cant mate with their parents kind and they re living close enouph to eachother to mate and repruduce .
If people cant tell right from wrong they lack empathy and common sense... not religion!
+The Kalidor Their not saying it comes from religion but rather God .
mikeMcoa And we humans has been making up gods since we discovered fire.
Life couldnt exist without a sense of morality. It comes naturally in nature and it evolves as our societies evolve. But the worst kind of morality is the kind that religion teaches.
Treat others the way you want others to treat you. Be able to put yourself in other people's shoes.
But remember,before you criticize someone,walk a mile in their shoes..It is harder to catch and hurt you when they are shoe less and a mile away.
jim hall I criticize religious ideas.. not people. Except bad people, i criticize bad those too :)
@@mikeMcoa god itself create religion. I dont know how to fit my mind on that.
couldn't people just figure out. Hey I won't murder you and you won't murder me.
***** Thats pretty much what people fight over.
***** but wouldn't people become logical and use reason. "You disagree with me I don't like you for it but I'm not going to ill you"
***** There is only one reason, consequence. Look at war time. When someone is rewarded for killing they continue to kill. Thankfully we are pack animals and we have a need to get along to make our lives easier.
They would be lying.
The reason people commit murder is because in a time that lacks a law enforcement agency and where making a living is very hard and you could starve to death any time, murder and crime is the easiest way to live.
Human Beings, Instinctively knew the difference between Right and Wrong Before "Religion" was ever Invented.
Simon Vickers its just basic
Simon Vickers that’s a lie
@@AlexisJohnson223 No it isnt. Barbarianism continued even after religion, supported by religion.
10 years later and you can see with your own eyes what happens to society without religious boundaries.
what do you mean? whos culture/religion feeds is the gangs?
That is not religion. @@matswessling6600
the real problem is, when people become radical, extremist, deny science, start believing that they are right while considering everyone else to be wrong,then they become problems....
The stupidity..
Muslim woman with hijab: "But without religion it's the word from one person against the word from another person!"
Seconds later: "But it's my personal belief!"
Okay, so your "objective universal morality" is just your personal belief.
I'd say it's unbelievable what cognitive dissonance can do.
I for sure would tear up some muscles on an exercise like that....
I think you happen to be a little confused actually, what I was saying was that morality has been defined for centuries in a religious manner, the only reason certain rules exist in our society is because religion created them, but how I practice my beliefs is personal, I am not trying to upset or offend anyone, it's my personal choice to dress a certain way. Society has subjective beliefs that dictate our lives, but how I chose to practice my personal beliefs is objective.
@@MegaSusan1991 Religion came from morality, Not the other way around. Religion doesnt own morality.
@@atrixsauza2068 I agree, I suppose then the question is why do people chose to use religion as a conduit for morality?
@@MegaSusan1991 bcs it was and still is easier
@@MegaSusan1991 Was that you? I'm curious, are you still Muslim?
how is using centuries old books for our morality a good idea? we should be able to change our values according to our knowledge and advancements.
Well said.
What knowledge? Does knowing the sun is the center of solar system or that the Earth is round change what is right or wrong (morally)?
MrTimmy23 do you seriously think the only area of research and scientific study is about the solar system or cosmos? there are several scientific studies and research going on about human evolution, human behaviour, genetics, psychology etc. and yes, these studies do help answer questions about morality.
No, obviously not. It was just an example.
MrTimmy23 so what is your point? how does that address what i said?
The girl in the black hijab at 11:05 is infuriating! How do you contradict yourself so profoundly in the same sentence and fail to recognize it?!
+Ahmed tnt Another ignorant who have NO idea what an atheist is. Congratulations!
Ahmed tnt 0 + 0 + 0 = 1 can only be true to a theist considering you believe in shit that has ZERO evidence for. Idiot.
Ahmed tnt Wow...I'm speechless. I haven't seen some one make such a dumb argument since the Bush era...you're kidding right? Not every atheist believes in or accepts the big bang theory. The only thing that atheist share in common, the one thing that puts all of us in a group with a label, is our lack of belief in the super natural and claims that suggest the existence of supernatural entities. Even so, you still miss understand what the big bang theory actually states. Your scientific illiteracy is more than apparent here pall...and that's me being polite. You're living in the information age for gods sake (pun intended) open your browser, close out your porn, and research this shit.
Raheel Zafar Hakeem
Ahmed tnt that made no sense at all.
Morals don't come from religion...it comes from us and the "grounding or foundation is the well being and health of others not from an assertion from authority. Period.
If you don't know law, how should you know moral?
Anything that goes against the health and well-being of other people or someone being deliberately dishonest that's what's I judge to be moral. @@ronaldztma3470
Did you know that even in the earliest writings, all the way throughout human history people always complained about "Ach, the kids of today!"
But then they died and yet the world kept spinning.
PonzooonTheGreat and if the kids are bad, it’s the fault of the parents because they are the ones raising them!
PonzooonTheGreat Ikr. It's so weird to think about every generation of kids were complained about. Socrates complained about how kids are losing oral recitation and have thins new thing called "writing."
One has to appreciate the proponents of relgions for their extraordinary ability to do mental gymnastics.
Slavery is "forbidden in Islam" (5:35). Am I mishearing her or did I read the wrong Quran?
jimpozcaner
The Qur'an:Qur'an (33:50) - "O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those (slaves) whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee" This is one of several personal-sounding verses "from Allah" narrated by Muhammad - in this case allowing himself a virtually unlimited supply of sex partners. Other Muslims are restrained to four wives, but, following the example of their prophet, may also have sex with any number of slaves, as the following verse make clear:
Qur'an (23:5-6) - "..who abstain from sex, except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess..." This verse permits the slave-owner to have sex with his slaves. See also Qur'an (70:29-30). The Quran is a small book, so if Allah used valuable space to repeat the same point four times, then sex slavery must be very important to him.
Qur'an (4:24) - "And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess." Even sex with married slaves is permissible.
Qur'an (8:69) - "But (now) enjoy what ye took in war, lawful and good" A reference to war booty, of which slaves were a part. The Muslim slave master may enjoy his "catch" because (according to verse 71) "Allah gave you mastery over them."Qur'an (24:32) - "And marry those among you who are single and those who are fit among your male slaves and your female slaves..." Breeding slaves based on fitness.
Qur'an (2:178) - "O ye who believe! Retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the murdered; the freeman for the freeman, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female." The message of this verse, which prescribes the rules of retaliation for murder, is that all humans are not created equal. The human value of a slave is less than that of a free person (and a woman's worth is also distinguished from that of a man's).
Qur'an (16:75) - "Allah sets forth the Parable (of two men: one) a slave under the dominion of another; He has no power of any sort; and (the other) a man on whom We have bestowed goodly favours from Ourselves, and he spends thereof (freely), privately and publicly: are the two equal? (By no means;) praise be to Allah." Yet another confirmation that the slave is is not equal to the master. In this case it is plain that the slave owes his status to Allah's will. (According to 16:71, the owner should be careful about insulting Allah by bestowing Allah's gifts on slaves - those whom the god of Islam has not favored).
MrHCSander Looks like you're reading the same Quran as I am: the one which gives a big thumbs up to slavery.
One of the 70(why so many?) deadly sins in Islam, is a slave leaving their masters. It's say a slave that leaves their masters side will not have their prayers answered.
+jimpozcaner are you a Muslim yourself?
Awash Alnaqeeb No, I'm not.
"Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teacher"
Socrates 469 BC - 399 BC
Good point well made.
Older people always bang on about "The youth of today" in every era and always will do.
Welcome to humanity, in every single place and time slot we've always been dicks to any sort of authority.
That is bloody brilliant.
the older generation always seems to forget they are exactly the ones who raised the younger generation.
Thanks for sharing this quote by Socrates so it means each generation thinks the old age is better by we keep advancing . This is an eye opener.
You need religion to create a moral society if you think keeping slaves, human sacrifice etc is moral. If not hell no
***** What are you saying Christianity, Islam etc aren't religions or aren't a "system of beliefs"? What is your actual point aside from an ad hominem?
I think your very first comment is incorrect unless you disagree with the definition of religion
religion |rɪˈlɪdʒ(ə)n|
noun [ mass noun ]
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods
I don't see how morality as a universal code is a religion, perhaps you would care to elaborate? To go down this route I would argue that religion is just as much a psychological illusion. It is just a construct, there isn't any evidence of any god(s).
What makes you think that atheists are afraid of being bullied by other atheists? What makes you think that the choice wasn't carefully deliberated? I would venture that atheism would,more often than not, be a deliberate choice whilst religions like christianity and islam would not as most people are indoctrinated as children.
Religion may have had a use in the past but I can't see any area of life today where it can serve a useful purpose that can't be filled by a secular or humanist or whatever else group. I for one struggle to see any valuable social morality coming from religion. Things like gay rights, stem cell research, abortion/womans' rights etc wouldn't be issues at all without religious doctrine. I don't see how a books that advocate slavery, misogyny, violence and intolerance can have any moral standing.
I'm not a Christian but Michael did speak to a truth. A lot of people are just doing what feels good rather than what is ethical and moral.
Doing what feels good does not mean what you are doing is not ethical or moral..If what makes you feel good comes at other peoples expense or harm it is not good. A lot of people feel good helping others.
If we accepted that reasoning than pedophiloa and incest would not be immoral.
Religious people individually can be moral, but faith can't give them a framework to explain why anything is right or wrong.
Lets face fact here and avoid this politically correct nonsense. If we did need any religion to create a moral society it will least likely be islam
Says Sam Harris' little brother. Go back to your Western hole.
As God is reluctant to show himself, its left to priests and clerics to explain his demands and wishes.
What can possible go wrong?
Saying you need religion to promote morality is like saying you need prostitutes to promote virginity.
Best comment ever.
Lmao
From what I've seen, morality is directly proportional to comfort. The more comfortable and well off someone is, the more likely they are to be moral. Morality also seems to be inversely related to excess. So typically the people who are moral are somewhere in the middle class. Religion can be a buffer to this, making some adhere to morality when they are suffering, or desperate; or it can help deflect corruption from too much wealth. Religion can also be used for destructive purposes. I usually find that once a religious person becomes immoral, they usually seek justification from the religion they claim. The cold hard truth of the situation is that: if the situation is bad enough, everyone will be out for themselves, violent, and self destructive; if the situation is too good, the people will be corrupt, blind and weak. Therefore, isn't morality just an illusion? Something we tell ourselves that we have in order to feel better about ourselves? Furthermore, who decides what is moral?
The truth is, I don't think we will ever be a moral society regardless of whether or not we have religion. No, we won't ever become completely immoral; but most of the time we will follow the path of least resistance.
thats not true when it comes to parents abusing their kids . its the same 10% or so percent across every income bracket. every type of discriptor you can think of .. seem intent on bullying their own kids. society really doesn't want to get their hands dirty when it comes to protecting kids who are slowly brain damaged daily by the people they are programmed to hope loves them . Adults aren't mostly good when they have money .. they aren't necessarily good because they dont have money either .. people think not being able to reason beyond what they did when they were 12 is ok.. its not. our laws and democracy depend on reason .. .. you should have to prove you know wtf an argument or a fact is
Closed at 0:00. The answer is no.
13:13 religion is great until something bad happens and then it's just "politics"
Behaviours that we consider moral, amoral and immoral, can be observed among animals. The roots do indeed go deep.
It's not just a few that hijacked a religion. It is the religion that hijacked humanity itself.
10:27 Nicky introduces Susan who complains that without religion there is no foundation for morality and it becomes the word of one man over another. Next, when Nicky points out that she prefers to wear the head covering of her religion and another woman of the same religion does not, she waffles that it is the other woman's personal belief, and thus moral for her.
So, there you have it folks... She's right, and wrong in the same breath. Even with religion, morality comes down to the word of one man over another.
Exactly what I was thinking. Contradicted herself within 2 minutes
and she is at law school ??? she is sharp as a bowling ball
And she is wearing some sort of pants, that seems to be haram in islam. Women are not to wear anything that reveals their body parts or even shape so tight jeans/pants are not allowed, but there we go again. Idk what is worse being hardcore religous or converting to muslim.
It's an evolutionary thing. Humans, in order to survive, needed to gather in groups. Once we started gathering in groups and forming small societies, we realised that in order for said societies to keep existing and be functional, individuals who were part of them would have to get along. Why? Because if they didn't, the society would be dysfunctional and it would end up being dissolved. No society meant solitary way of living, which, in turn, meant harder struggle for survival. So people had to establish certain rules among them in order to prevent their societies from breaking up. For example, I know that if I kill you, you will no longer assist me in hunting. Hence, hunting would be more difficult for me. That led to killing being deemed to be immoral. Basically, morality came from the realisation that humans needed each other in order to survive. So they had to respect each other and treat each other right, otherwise they'd end up alone. No god or religion were ever needed for us to develop a sense of morality. We did it all by ourselves. Had we not done so, we would end up dead and we wouldn't have survived as a species. Nature led us there. Not god. Unless you want to call nature your god...
Your argument applies well to families and tribes but at some point another tribe is your enemy and the practical thing may very well be is to destroy your enemy. You haven't established a basis for caring for each other rather than just using others to get what you want. Also the evolutionary aspect with it's "sense of morality" is non-rational. Perhaps the evolutionary process gives us a bad feeling when we do something wrong but so what? What sacrifice are we willing to make against our own best self interest in order to get or get rid of some feeling?
Morality is a social construction. Morality results from rational choices. Morality results from a complex interaction of genes, neural processes, and social interactions. Hence the origins of morality are both neural and social.
True morality comes from within. Who deserves more credit: the humanist who treats everyone with respect because they CHOOSE to or the religious fruitcake who only does what they are told under threat of eternal damnation.
These religious folk come over as naive and childlike.
Morality is essential for us to live as a civilised society. It has nothing to do with a supernatural being.
Morality is a community's view of what individual behavior supports the community.
So was slavery moral back when people supported it.
+MrTimmy23 I think you answered your own question.
+Glenys Wiseman the reply to the questioner was contained in the question provided you comprehended my original thesis. Any moral value is a community's idea of what individual behaviour supports that community. Both you and the previous questioner are trying to argue that point using arguments that contain assumptions that presuppose it's error. In order to make a sensible argument you have to comprehend what you're arguing against which means you need to think a bit deeper.
To that end I'll ask you a different question, since what you asked was incomplete...
To whom?
Ok that question helped me understand your position much better. Correct me if I'm wrong but based on this view of morality. If a certain outside society practiced slavery, human sacrifice. Would this society not be seen as immoral because morality is what the community sees as moral. Therefore, there could not be any condemnation of this society.
It would not be seen as immoral within that community, however the slaves would not be a part of that community. They and other communities could consider it immoral. Also as a community matures members of that community start thinking of themselves as ppart of a larger community that includes the slaves and become ambivalent about that moral code. This is the same as how liberal Western cultures think that the way Muslims treat women is immoral and Muslim cultures think the way Western women behave is immoral. There are no absolutes but that does not mean that morality is purely subjective either.
Once you understand where it comes from you can start to make value judgements which are not just screaming at each other for having a different morality. "This works better because it includes all people" "this works better because it is not so easily corrupted by a rich elite" etc... instead of "your moral code is immoral".
Great discussion... learning and listening.
Those non Muslims are sO deaf to Truth;
Islam and Muslims. I can't believe that he
actually said he didn't hear moral compass
at the end, when it was mentioned by that
sis in the beginning sO clearly. ...Peace...
I love watching sister Maryoum debating in these mixed-faith debates. She is so energetic and full of fervour and passion for her newly-found religion, Islam. May Allah protect her from all harm, and keep her strong in Faith. She is doing such a good job on the front lines. May Allah reward her with a very high place in Paradise. I also wish all the muslim brothers and sisters that participated in the discussion good rewards from Allah and happiness and peace in Islam. Salam.
Amen ya rab
Love, life, and growth are what we need for a good world.
Morals of life can teach you every thing, every living human knows what's good and what's bad. Religions make their own format of morals, and start selling it for better audience through their trained personal, who can describe the rules, and uniquely name them.
Answer: No.
Yes
This show should be called "Questions a five year-old could answer".
And adults making up excuses to justify their nonsense.
Very well done good to see arguments from both the secular and religious side that weren't just a bunch of people yelling at each other. Both raised some very good points, the main ones that I noticed were "you don't need religion to have morality" which is true being an atheist myself but at the same time the religious camp brought up a really good point that there are more organizations charitable organizations that are religious than those that are secular since they are a unified front rather than a bunch of people who don't believe in god.
***** I'm not a fan of monetary donations either since it is difficult to tell where it goes. Most of it usually goes to employees salaries of these NGOs. That is why I think donations of goods such as food, water, blankets, clothing and etc is more useful.
During Ramadan, Muslims clear their fridges and donate it all to charity. That's not something a lot of atheists would do.
***** Ok your spelling errors are getting very annoying. From the way you are writing you appear to be an anti-theist. If look at most scientists throughout history that have cured diseases they tend to be Christians but that's besides the point. How many atheists contribute to aid to foreign countries at the time of a disaster? Not too many since we are not as compelled to do it. Just look at Haiti for instance. So many churches mobilized to help people after the earthquake by providing emergency supplies. How many purely secular organizations contributed?
Religious people tend to care a lot more about social issues, whether it is because they see it as a ticket to heaven or it is part of their morals doesn't matter.
Atheists lack the organizational capabilities of religious people which are unified by their local church.
Religion was and will remain important so long as atheists are not unified.
***** I'm an atheist, not a Christian and could you please learn to use spell check. I'm also not from the US.
The knowledge that was destroyed during the dark ages came back during the Renaissance because of Muslim countries that hanged onto the Greco-Roman works.
As for Haiti I mentioned supplies not money. I am against donating money as stated previously.
The people you are referring to are a representation of the worst types of religious people when there are many more that do good.
Atheist countries? No country is officially atheist. Not the Scandanavian countries and not even secular France.
Medical knowledge was gained over time. Muslims brought back cultural aspects of Greco-Roman culture.
As for donations the US and Canada are always in the top 5.
www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/11/19/chart-the-worlds-most-generous-countries/
Membership fee?
You couldn't be more wrong, the US pays one of the highest amounts.
www.worldtribune.com/2013/02/24/whos-paying-and-not-paying-their-fair-share-at-the-un/
Being religious doesn't necessarily make you moral and being non-religious doesn't necessarily make you immoral. Any morality found in religion is put their by people, not by magic. If religion promote compassion, tolerance, understanding and charity, they are moral, if they promote bigotry and ideological warfare they are not.
"Do we need religion to create a moral society?"
What a stupid question.
Absolutely not.
What is needed is to take religion out of politics, economics and education entirely.
Religion belongs to houses of worship and the homes of believers.
Religion, regardless of the kind, teaches people to be irrational and deluded.
Shove this mind-forged nonsense into the confines of hobby and superstition.
Among them, take out Islam first.
All you guys saying we don’t need religion to form a “moral society”. Let’s see how irreligious societies did. China ended of persecuting and killing millions of Christians so did North Korea and the Soviet Union. But what about Sweden? I here you cry, well. Countries like that were countries were the vikings ran around killing each other and them CHRISTIAN missionaries came round and the countries were basically converted and then when peace came the decided. “We don’t need Christianity and more”. So have fun boycotting Christianity I don’t care about religion as a whole. The point is all these societies that were atheist just thought. If humans create morals then we do as we want and therefore they could make people think of killing those who disagreed with them as moral since morality is apparently just subjective.
Repent and give your lives to Jesus.
Work and Pray let's see how religion worked .
The holocaust was started and supported by christians , same with the wich hunt , abuse/torment/outcast of gays and lesbies .
And there are still people that say god or religion are moral in any way , shape or form .
P.S. over 10 milion inocents (man , woman and children) died in all of the actions mantioned.
In the religion of The Flying Spaghetti Monster (the one true god) all noodles are created equal, just think, when was the last time you saw a Pastafarian commit any immoral act? Check, mate.
Are u still there pastafarian?
Well done Nicky. You answered the question in your introduction.
Thank you everybody here!
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion, too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace
You, you may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you will join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world
You, you may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you will join us
And the world will live as one
Imagine having nothing to die for,
That means you have nothing to live for,
Imagine living for nothing,
Imagine dying for nothing
I choose something, you choose nothing
The points made by Stephen Law were absolutely spot on. I have seen very moral people both religious and irreligious. But the commonality between the moral people of both positions was that, in the both cases those people sat down to think about morality amongst other issues. The people who just followed religion in a dogmatic fashion, actually weren't that moral at all. And equally the non-believers who didn't spend time to think about morality, didn't come off as kind people.
So if you teach kids philosophy, critical thinking and figuring out things for themselves, you will far supersede the morality suggested by any one book. Give no one book precedence. Read as much you can, debate and figure out for yourself your moral framework. Morality I think, is not ingrained, it is fostered. Anyone whose had kids can attest to this fact. Kids aren't born moral. They have to be taught morals and values. I have questioned a lot in my life, and I think I am a lot more compassionate than my friends, be it towards family, friends or animals.
With religion, people have outsourced their responsibility and ability to be moral to a medieval book. When you ask how homosexuality is immoral, people never seem to have an answer except for point to their book.
What most people miss when it comes to right and wrong is that what most think is RIGHT in one venue CAN be totally WRONG in another. You need some "framework" to determine what is RIGHT is RIGHT in ALL scenarios regardless of the circumstances. Humans sometimes do what is WRONG to achieve what is right in the final outcome.
so should that framework be religion? if then which religion?
I think what is right and wrong should be decided based on reason and discussion. That's what a secular society should do.
He was sooooooo right about what he said concerning the idea of having two parents. We are not living in Armegeddon...that is a fear...people should apply their religion in a productive and joyful manner... stay civic ... Miriam is amazing!
After endless battering, what compels the believer to maintain defending the indefensible. They get backed into corners in every single such debate on TH-cam
That poor guy in the back in the white shirt had he's hand up for the entire video lol
The question should be "do we need a source for morality?" Then we can ask "do we need to be moral?" Yes, we need to be moral because no society will survive if we devour each other and this planet will be destroyed by our own hand. What then is the purpose of morality? Morality is good for the preservation of things in this world living or not. Now to answer "do we need religion to be moral?" It is asking do you need to be a christian, muslim, buddhist etc to be moral.? No! But what is our source for morality seeing we need one as a basis of right and wrong which should not come from one man. It boils down to this "learn from the mistake of those who lived before us". Learn about religion, its teachings and histories. Look at it as a historical figure. There are religious people who had done marvellous deeds for the society, there are non-religious that had done well too. There are religous who had done evil and there are atheist who had done evil too. They had something in common. They are both man. Ultimately the big question is "should we rid religion?" The answer is "we must not". Its like taking away a big chunk from our referrences. If you want a law to prohibit religion, it already happen in the past but yet it survived. History will repeat itself, the religious will fight for their freedom to practice their religion. Society will lose its peace. Sooner or later a new leader will reform the law that prohibits religion.
Empathy is the foundation of morality, not religion. It's so sad nobody could point this out.
If being moral means I have to wear a face cloth for the rest of my life and condemn other people's actions which are perfectly natural according to nature, then I'm fine with being "immoral".
Funny fact the more religious the community the higher the crime rate and the violence in general
True!
1. muhammed is a liar. 2. islam is a scam. 3. muhammed thought about and
set up this scam. 4. muhammed is a person who only thinks about his
benefits. 5. first he married to hatice because of her money and her
rich family, he was a poor guy, he did not have parents. he was 25 years
old, and hatice was 40. 6. after living 15 years of marriage with
hatice, at age of 40 muhammed thought about this scam and started his
plan. 7. at that time arabic language was very developed. there were
many good poets. frequently there were poet contests with big prizes. 8.
mohammed rented his first poet, and made him write the first texts. 9.
after islam became popular in his city, he set up a "writers team". the
writers team consisted of the best poets. 10. the poets joined to the
writers team voluntarily. because it was a very big priviliege and fame
to be in that team. 11. by time even being a good poet was not enough to
be in the "writers team". recommendation of strong and effective people
needed to be accepted into that team, and of course permission of
muhammed. 12. after the "writers team" things became even easier. 13.
for example he had a quarrel with his wives at that day. he sleeps,
wakes up the next morning and says that he recieved a message from allah
about wives and women. ))) 14. he tells his story to the writers team
roughly. the writers team writes almost a perfect script like a poet and
tells him. if he likes it, he says "yes thats the exact text that allah
told me". ))) 15. thats why it is said that kuran is very poetic and
beutiful script. 16. but these were not made a book until 30 years after
his death. instead, the pieces of text were written on camel bones,
gazelle skins or people memorized them. this continued on 23 years. 17.
kuran was collected as a book 30 years after death of muhammed, by the
initiative of omer. 18. why his great allah was not able to send a book
directly? because he did not have enough lies at that time, he continued
his lies 23 years. 19. omer settled up a committee. this committee
collected the texts from camel bones, gazelle skins, and memories of
people. 20. at the end there were many versions of the book. ))) 21. the
commitee decided a version, by subtracting the text that they did not
like, or adding text in favor of them, or changing the order of the
text. 22. after a lot of work, they declared the first version of the
book as genuine and authentic. 23. mohammed is murderer. 24. mohammed is
merciless. 25. mohammed is psychopat. 26. as soon as he got accepted
and treated like a god, he set up a harem. 27. when he was 52 he had
over 100 wives and sex slaves at his harem. 28. but these women were not
enough. he married to a 6 years old girl, when he was 52 years old. 29.
he is pedofile. 30. he is not only pedofile, but also incest. he
married to his stepsons stunning wife. 31. even at that time in arabia,
this was an unacceptable act to marry with sons wife. but he found a way
as always. )))) 32. to be able to marry with the stepsons wife, he told
that "allah sent me an order to marry with her. you are helal to me."
))) this is written in quran. 33. he is nothing else but a dictator and
warlord of his time. 34. islam spread throughout the world with wars.
there were countless wars. starting from the first day of islam, until
this date, today. 35. he left all his fortune and powers to his children
and his relatives. 36. khalife is called successor of the prophet in
islam. he said that khalife will be from my relatives after me. )))
When you start arguing on the importance of something, it loses its importance right away.
Wish it lasted longer really. What i find interesting is that this debate broadens the mind as it made me think/reflect about different elements brought by the different people there. However most of the comments below seem so closed and concluded.
A world without religion.. oh..
+YunaQQQQQ8 you ran out of anti skeptic meds?
+la cri And you say religion makes your opinion more extreme.
I don't know if you did this on purpose, but you could read this comment in 2 ways. 1. "I'm dreaming of a world without religion, I wake up, shit religion is still here". or 2. A world without religion huh? I wake up, even though there's no religion all this shit (the same old problems) are still here even though there's no religion to blame it on.
atheist.are.non.religious.not.bigoted.or.extreme
It's incredible how religion holds back humanity from achieving so much. It should be banned and criminalized to believe in any of that shit.
Simple answer, ABSOLUTELY NOT.
My sister Emilie francois we all support you and we are proud of you. thanks for you.
It should be a stepping stone in the individuals journey of the self, from lower to higher states of consciousness.
No, enough said.
Teen pregnancy is at a record low in the UK.
I have lived on this planet for 62 years and was taught as a child all about religion. As I have lived my life, I find that most so called religious believers have the most sadly bankrupt moral values as they fight over different religions. I believe that we should all have strong moral guidelines, and try and live by them to the best of our ability, but as the Christians and Muslims, and Buddists, and Mormons, and Jehovahs, all claim that religions are growing around the world, why then is greed which is the worst plague on our planet now so rampant and mostly among the ranks of the "RELIGIOUS" zealots? They don't care if their fellow human is starving, homeless, etc., they build their shiny temples worth fortunes to pray to their greed in.....insanity.
The last concluding statement is ultimate.
Don't use religion as your moral compass !!
Simple answer is no we have no need of religion
Wait! What are those ninjas doing there?!
1 3 is that moral?
you said ninja? i think that is better than west which nude
as a former ninja living in middle east (not by choice), no its not better than nude, neither are good
if covered women are to be called ninjas then uncovered or short clothed women should be called pornstars /whores.
LANO the best comment ever
"you don't know and I know" would be the end of this kind of arguments! You can watch any debate and find the same. After debate if you changed your mind, please let others know!
We need to get rid of religion if we want a more moral society.
"A person is either your brother in faith, or equal in humanity"
- Imam Ali ❤️
10:20
Glenys Wiseman what the hell you are talking about ? islam doesn't teach that males are better than females . one of the reasons the message of the prophet was refused by the leaders of his community is that he increased the rights of women radically . islam teaches that we are equal but different physiologically and psychologically . Iam a muslim women living in Egypt and studying medicine .for more information you can search for women rights in islam or myriam francosis women in islam liberated or oppressed . Stop repeating the same bullshit the media says.I hope you check what I told you before replying another bullshit.
Glenys Wiseman Like "Science" preaches that White people "are" superior race, or "Politics" says let the Mighter win!
Yeah! Now you are a mind reader!
Science says that white people are superior? wtf are you talking about btw i know this is 2 yrs late
+ sally shafeyit increased their rights supposedly but certainly not equality.
I can't believe that anyone would disagree with the man who indicated that there is a direct relationship between the raising of children with a mother and father and that of a broken home and the effect on how those different groups of children will turn out to be. What with all the violence in the streets and this terrible knockout game that is plaguing our society. It is all from teens with no father figure. My two cents!
two cents indeed.
Better than no cents...haha
haha indeed.
I dont really remember anyone disagreeing with that. I would like to add however that teen violence has been steadily decreasing for a while now, so while there are more and more broken families, overall the violence is down.
I disagree with his point entirely. To say that we have regressed as a society due to the rise in broken homes and single parents is a huge generalization. We have come a long way from the days when women had to be house wives and needed a man to support themselves. Why don't we look at the rise in life expectancy, the increase in living standards that we have today, and also compare that to the jim crow era, slavery, and much more things we have overcome from the past. We don't need religion for morals.
Wisdom discussion...great frame work.
This will be the best program ever for knowledge
Yeah.To a great extend you are right.She tries her best to give balanced answer.Being a revert she often come under flak by Muslims and Non-Muslims alike.She is trying her best to convey the message of Islam in a proper way.May Allah bless her.She needs our support and encouragement.
Is like saying do we need to follow iron age barbarians without questioning for morality.
Of curse not.
Firstly because as the world evolves our sense on morality evolves.
Secondly the barbarians ho made religions where not moral
Thirdly and most importantly ...Morality by definition requires and includes reason.
Kostas Spiliotopoulos Yeah thats why it takes ages to understand Quran from that barbarian age accaording your r ignorance
+xyz2k I didn't get what you said!!
For uneducated population one needs religion,but as education prevails in one doesn't need religion for a moral society.
You absolutely do not need religion for a moral society. Sweden is one of the most agnostic or secular countries in the world , and it is one of the most peaceful counties as well.
NO.
I saved you 15 minutes of word vomit.
"And Marriages are advised to be done early in Islam because to avoid masturbating, which is a very harmful act for many people."
I must admit I laughed out at that statement. Marriage does not mean people avoid masturbation, and I have not heard of a single case of masturbation being harmful to anyone.
It's better to have seggs in healthy relationship, than masterbation.
Conscience and our notions of right or wrong are drilled into our brains in a long process of growing from childhood to adulthood. As a child, we explore the boundaries between the permissible actions and those that are not permitted. From our experiences we learn what is good and what is bad. I think that it is erroneous to think that a supreme being "wrote" the code of morality into our heart.
"One the one hand this religion is this powerful entity and on the other hand the moment anything bad happens within it that's politics no you have to take some responsibility "
I love this debate and people are advancing however slowly and you can see clearly the religious don't like it.
I decided against religious faith on one major thought and it was has this spiritual ideology murdered enslaved or tortured one million people directly or by inspiration, and if the faith did and their god didn't intervene then they themselves in fact proved their god or version of god is not real to me.
If you say well god wouldn't intervene or inspire enough humans greatly enough to dissuade and halt massive acts of evil being done in his name, then he is not a creator or father which would love and protect their creation as most of us would our own children and so your saying god created us with a instinct that he himself does not possess.
Any religion that produced mass homicide no matter the excuses or dodges, in my mind has murdered itself committed suicide for their idea of god just my opinion though.
Out of context misinterpreted misunderstood when I think of our worlds religious choices, I always think of it as being like asking directions from a man with 50 arms and he points in every direction at the same time.
Morality is all that's born with us, naturally, ...endowed to us free of cost along with the three good virtues of all time: Love, Faith and Hope. I have been simultaneously horrified, saddened, and enraged at the spate of suicides committed in the name of religion, for the act suicide shows you that the one who commits to the act or the ones who are in any way supportive of the idea have in fact no love, no faith, and no hope.
Reprehensibly remaining underdeveloped is the society that lives off its emotions.
thanks for the post
You are one thousand percent correct! It is JUST YOUR OPINION and you are wrong! Someone said "I hate religion and all the hypocrites!" The teacher answered his student explicitly "so did Isaiah, Amos, Hosea and even Jesus!" Yeeaahh Booyyyeee! Jesus task was to point men to true love for God and He was crucified for it, but God raised Him from the dead! Jesus came preaching the kingdom of God is at hand, a wonderful teaching that many stumble over! Many are before the very throne room of God because they experienced what Jesus proclaimed and revealed, but simultaneously many WILL stumble at Christ's basic message, Everyone has been given a golden opportunity to receive and emulate Christ's example and teachings by faith, abuse them, or plainly reject Him and His teachings. It's a matter of choice. But what many fail to realize, and sadly never will of all those who have been redeemed and have received the ultimate reward...Heaven before God's throne. You see since we have been raised in unrighteousness we have become cynical. When someone abuses religion, get rid of it we say. What about sex, do we say, get rid of it when a man rapes a woman? What about bad government? Bush stole the election, we need reform! Obama wins in landslide, no ones complaining. Get my point? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I was a pot head/alcoholic. My friend told me Jesus loves me and he can save you. I prayed, haven't smoke a joint or had even one drink in almost thirty years. Praise God from whom all blessings flow. I sense His Holy Spirit daily and have a sense of the kingdom of God, and that is God's active presence in one who believes on Jesus. Been to Christian conferences and have had wonderful experiences of God's presence as we have worshiped God collectively. Oh, I wish many could experience His Presence. Religion is mans' attempt to reach God. The New Testament writers said God has come down to man in Christ, His Holy Son. And when one lifts up their hands to God, acknowledging Jesus, there will be a manifestation of His presence. Oh it's more than religion, it's a person HIS NAME IS JESUS!
Will Thompson
All comes down to scrolls written by men and claimed to be divine, not that one would ever know that looking at the appalling cruelties on exhibit in the book.
Written by men translated by men and from copies of copies of old scrolls that were selected edited revised and compiled by men.
Here is what it would take to make any of it believable in the least, it would have had to have independently been revealed to every nation and peoples, and not to one group gang or culture and all at the same time.
There would only be one book standing one religion left, because all the rest would have been laughable next to that sort of revealed knowledge of a book inspired of or written with the influence of the creator of all the universe having had any part of it
It would clear and concise enough to be clear and easily understood in every tongue, there would not be no where near or even close to a thousand different denominations each with its own take on the gibberish.
You can act all you wish that you;re speaking of a god, obviously their man made comical representations of the creator/god and that does not even imply god/creator does not exist he may be real.
Hes not in your theology religion or faiths any of them at all that I've seen, if he does exist which is of great question, the atheist or agnostic answer is I don't know which is a valid and rightful truthful answer.
Whats more not a one of you know and you all know that you do not know any such thing, no one could know nothing from this pitiful hodge podge on parade, that the worlds religions are made of and Christianity NO is not given any exception to that rule.
You don't have extra sensory perception that I don't have, you don't have any relationship with Jesus, while you may hear voices thats more to your discredit then credit.
Look at Christianity even today not to mention its heinous criminal background, that here in the age of technology you can see paraded in its full inglorious details.
If that pathetic cruel sadistic perversity was inspired by this idea of god you carry, that any sensible realistic being, would declare as revealing of its non divinity and laughable so called moral influence or teachings
For in all realities had a negative influence on human kind< "Yes" murdering millions stealing continents burning people alive even though time passes, handing out toiletries and food at moments will not there in suffice to make Christianity a positive net win for us as a species.
Should never been but it is there and that is a fact like it or not !
Act like you're not aware of it say its all lies downplay the scope and scale, you;ll only fool your damned self.
You worship a book your a idolater it was man made to, and your so called as you all say good Christian ancestors "PRICKS ON PARADE" called people names like savage or pagan ETC tortured raped stole from and killed them for idolatry,,, bunch of fucking god damned no good cursed ass sorry entitled frigging hypocrites, that is your Christian heritage, as we all really know it, if were at all honest that is.
P.S.
Yes I'm angry very at the divisive hateful evil and piss poor fabrication, that the whole of this Christian ideology is so example of.
I thought I would just save you some time in pointing that out, yes I hate your Jesus the holy ghost the church your faith religion ideas all of it hate it.
Love the people even Muslims and Christians and our demand, is let our people go free and more enlightened truthful and human and to that amen.
Moohammed pbuh incoraged forgivness and equality and education he made things 1400+ years ago better its mans greed and desires that made them worse
Yes, things are certainly worse now.. Everyone has the right to an education, animals have rights, there is more equality in society, barbaric death penalties are removed.. Oh wait, this isn't progress for you, is it?
Husky Paws maybe hes sad because there isnt any pegasus left D: mohamed took the last one
If you are right, why did he kill so many people then?
It doesnt sound very forgiving to kill his critics, or to kill someone who wants to leave islam.
Also, it is not a very high standard of morality, to go around and rob caravans and pillaging other villages and taking their wives as slave.
He may have preached forgiveness, but surely not against non muslims.
you need to do your research and come up with factual evidance not here say
jalal aburas I did, i spent more time of my life with islam, than i intended to.
But i found out that it is worse than i originally thought.
If the almighty god wrote a book for all mankind as a guide, why is there in this book a rule as to how many of the loot of robbed caravans belongs to muhammed himself?
Why would allah have to make a rule, specially dedicated to muhammads loot, if he was such a nice guy?
Why did allah allow female war prisoners to be raped as sex slaves, if muhammed and his lot were such nice fellows?
And, where did it lead to? Allah did foresee what would happen, so why didnt he wrote the Qur`an in a matter, that wouldnt cost so many lives (270000 000 dead people in 1400 years because of islamic expansion), or didnt allah knew whats gonna happen?
Or maybe allah just didnt care about all those christians jews and hindus that were slaughtered in his name?
Maybe he is not that loving and merciful, but instead just another tyrannic devil.
Its either one or the other, or, what is the most probable, he is just the invention of muhammad, the "nice guy."
Neither of these possibilities is flattering to say the least.
Watched all of it
Well if you can have morals without religion that's good. Also if you can have morals with religious guidance that's also good. See tribalism and our nature of defending our beliefs against the beliefs of others is what makes a good majority of the worlds issues. It's better to relate with all other individuals and not try to tear each other just because one is a Christian and the other is an atheist. Because no matter what we all want a society where peace, love, equality, and prosperity. We just got different ways of trying to achieve the same goal. I hope this inspires anybody reading this to truly show love, respect, and openness to people who may have different beliefs of how to get towards a moral society.
Instant Answer:
No .-.
Atheists are perfectly fine without religion.
magic
Happiest countries are least religious in the world
Ive never seen such civil discussion!
Peoples can have common goals and values without a common religion. Religion tends to be irrational, and is more often a source of conflict than of mutual respect.