If one is choosing this based injury, high volume training or required grip strength, be aware that the distance to the trigger guard matters. If it is a huge trigger guard for gloved hands like an usp this might not be an option or it might not feel right on different width or shape of the trigger guard. Don't give up early on and try it on different pistols to give it a real chance. It'd be interesting to see if this is easier with a straighter grip angle.
Quality info, I feel like the conversation around grip will shift soon from the crush with support hand to a relatively more relaxed style with more focus on joint locking like grauffel’s.
I think the crush the with the support hand is the easier method to conceptualize and apply honestly, and adding to it proper structure behind the gun really helps! I had done well with that combination before, but overdid it and ignored the pain creeping in haha I had kept this grip in the back of my mind in case I ever needed it, but wasn't going to switch myself unless there was a profound reason to, but that pain was getting so bad it gave me an opportunity to see what I could learn from this and share with you guys!
Thanks for sharing. I appreciate the alternative solutions rather than the "one size fits all". I had been fighting through a elbow tendonitis that impacted my grip for the season. I elected to sit out for 2 months after the major matches so I could let it heal. My elbow is about 90% back but may decide to give this a try to avoid future injuries.
Absolutely and thanks for watching and commenting! When it comes down to it there are several ways that can effectively work if the person is willing to put the time into making it work well! I'm 41 now, so longevity at high performance is something that is becoming valuable to me. Plus having experienced a few ways to do it allows me to be able to give people better information for their specific situation!
Thanks so much man! It's really only that I haven't put much time into it yet - I really try to focus on learning and getting better so I can help more people! Social media is just something I have to embrace haha
Thanks for the video. Trying this alternative grip is never better unless you try during hundred of hours. This is a huge investment of time I only justify if current grip is generating both problems or lesions.
@jpradasdiez I'd agree totally and if I wasn't having issues I wouldn't have personally switched myself! I had only kept it in the back of my mind when I learned it in case anyone ever needed it. It turned out I did hahaha I'd say two circumstances that it would be better for are that and someone at the beginning of their journey who in their particular circumstance this seems to agree with and they haven't developed the traditional grip with hundreds of hours already!
Thanks Rob. EG style imo seems superior for one reason. Ole sayin “Best ability is Availability”. If EG style takes pressure off elbow ligaments and you suffer from shooters elbow seems like a worthwhile investment learning even if it sets you back in performance short term. Personally I feel your pain going in for PRP injection right elbow next week. I am right handed seems the draw causes most of my problems. Good luck on your road to recovery!
Thanks so much for sharing and watching! I agree and my original intention when starting down this was that "I want to be able to still train while recovering my arm." I tested it live after trying it in dryfire for a few days to make sure it could produce live fire results, and it did - which was surprising to me honestly! As I've recovered my elbow, I've added back pressure into the support hand, but it's not what it was before at all and is getting better as I dial it in more and more. It's really about fine tuning it and placing my personal understanding and experience behind it at this point as I "make it my own"! Quite honestly, it's fun to get to see if you can replicate results with an entirely different idea - if anything to be able to help more people with options that fit them :) I got it in my right arm from EG's class in 2023 as well haha but I actually was able to solve it then too without having to switch grips or stop training! I even wrote an article about that journey here - www.ssusa.org/content/elbow-and-hand-longevity-for-the-practical-shooter/ - Maybe that might help you as well!
Thanks for making and sharing your videos! I participated in the EG-CZ Online trainings instructed by EG. I asked him the question on his grip. As you've stated he's had the grip since he was 9, but he still uses it mainly because he has small hands and fingers. He stated that in general, he doesn't teach this grip to new shooters. I have tried to use this grip during live fire training sessions. I have large hands and long fingers, which complicates things alot as far as placement of the WH index finger around the trigger guard. Felt very uncomfortable. In addition the RO's didn't really like it either, because it blocks their clear view of the trigger guard and may give the incorrect appearance that you have a finger in the trigger guard. As you said, shooter's preference ;-)
Thanks for watching and sharing! I have pretty large hands, but my fingers are normal length id say, not piano fingers haha Two of the things I wanted to know when I first played around with this was - can I be comfortable with it in 5 minutes of training? If it was too awkward for me I would have figured out a different way - how does it look when I'm shooting LIVE? If it's significantly worse then it's likely not worth exploring. In my case, in ideal conditions it was actually better, so it made it worth going down the path of seeing how it works for me so I can share with others!! I'd say you could also take the traditional looking grip and apply the post/hook concept and less grip pressure idea that Eric uses (maybe he teaches that in his academy? I plan to sign up for it soon!). I think the best part is that we as students and instructors learn that there are many ways to achieve success so that no matter who you are you can make it happen!!
I find this works better with certain pistols than others depending on their size in relation to your hand size. I can do the Eric Grauffel grip with my Glocks, can't really do it with my Berettas. This finger on the trigger guard grip gets described by different shooters in different ways but they all seem to mean the same thing. I agree that "push/pull" is horribly misleading. When I first actually tried to push/pull I had extreme oscillation. When in reality it is the isometric tension the finger on the trigger guard creates when you push out with your firing hand and the support hand is simply holding onto the trigger guard. Since the support hand is slightly ahead of the strong hand, that small discrepancy in asymmetry is what creates the tension. Even as I hear myself type this I laugh at how hard it is to convey the grip.
Yep! I've found the same as you, although for me personally I could make it work with pretty much every gun I had at the time. It's only something that actually going through it can really help you convey to the best of your ability haha
I'm having trouble with elbow pain on my dominating hand. Could you do a video about elbow angles both with this grip and your old grip? What is the difference between them? Love your videos. Thank you 😊
For sure and thanks for watching and for the questions! Not that there's tension persay, but because what was subconscious and not thought about is now different so I'm noticing it. Also in more dynamic situations while I'm learning to master it it just behaves differently than before. Not good or bad. Just different! And as I dial it in I'm sure i won't even notice anymore haha
Austin Prolux shoots like this as he learned on the 1911 in .45 from a young age. He also drives/twists his wrists slightly together. It’s interesting, but I struggle with it.
Yep! I do whats called an upside down horseshoe in my normal grip - imagine an upside down horseshoe in your hands and try to straighten it. I don't use it so much with this though. It's interesting to use vastly different techniques and still end up with a decent result though!
I need to try this! My elbow has been killing me for weeks. Question for you Rob: are you going to continue to shoot this way after you heal? And do you shoot your EDC pistol like this now too?
I've been continuing down this path and I do think it will be the better way! As long as an edc pistol doesn't have a wml (mine doesnt) I would use the same style of grip. I have added back in support hand grip pressure and am working on more full elbow extension again with good results! I'm able to recover finally and I'm not using as much effort when running the gun now 😁 I'll keep you guys updated!
It definitely is something worth experimenting with if you're going through some hand and/or forearm issues! I'm probably 80-85% recovered by now and I'm still using this, although I've added back grip pressure as tolerable too and it's worked really well.
What's old is new lol I think the interesting thing is people don't really realize that the guy who did the Weaver stance initially looked like this, specifically with the elbows being pretty symmetrical! Most people look at the weaver platform and see a highly bladed stance and stiff firing elbow and highly bent support elbow. I do think this is conceptually different in that it's not quite "push/pull" as well, as applying that type of concept (at least for me) delivers results that aren't quite as good.
If one is choosing this based injury, high volume training or required grip strength, be aware that the distance to the trigger guard matters. If it is a huge trigger guard for gloved hands like an usp this might not be an option or it might not feel right on different width or shape of the trigger guard. Don't give up early on and try it on different pistols to give it a real chance.
It'd be interesting to see if this is easier with a straighter grip angle.
Very good info for others! I've run it on several different guns and it's a slight adjustment but seems to be just fine for me personally :)
I have been doing this way for the last couple of months and it feels more natural now to me. I also feel I get tighter groups using this technique.
@bluyetiinc7553 I remember you saying you liked it better when I first introduced it to the group! Glad it's still working well for you 😁
I absolutely love the grips you recommended for the sp01. Thank you very much sir 🤝
Thanks for watching and commenting!
Interesting…. Thank you for the information. Well done!
Thanks so much for watching and commenting!
Going to give it a try.
Awesome, let me know how it goes for you!!
Love the channel. Great information.
Thanks for watching and commenting! It helps me continue to make more content to help you guys :)
Quality info, I feel like the conversation around grip will shift soon from the crush with support hand to a relatively more relaxed style with more focus on joint locking like grauffel’s.
I think the crush the with the support hand is the easier method to conceptualize and apply honestly, and adding to it proper structure behind the gun really helps! I had done well with that combination before, but overdid it and ignored the pain creeping in haha
I had kept this grip in the back of my mind in case I ever needed it, but wasn't going to switch myself unless there was a profound reason to, but that pain was getting so bad it gave me an opportunity to see what I could learn from this and share with you guys!
Thanks for sharing. I appreciate the alternative solutions rather than the "one size fits all". I had been fighting through a elbow tendonitis that impacted my grip for the season. I elected to sit out for 2 months after the major matches so I could let it heal. My elbow is about 90% back but may decide to give this a try to avoid future injuries.
Absolutely and thanks for watching and commenting!
When it comes down to it there are several ways that can effectively work if the person is willing to put the time into making it work well!
I'm 41 now, so longevity at high performance is something that is becoming valuable to me. Plus having experienced a few ways to do it allows me to be able to give people better information for their specific situation!
Great tips Ty brother. How is ur channel not bigger that’s crazy to me.
Thanks so much man! It's really only that I haven't put much time into it yet - I really try to focus on learning and getting better so I can help more people! Social media is just something I have to embrace haha
That’s what I want to know
Thanks for the video. Trying this alternative grip is never better unless you try during hundred of hours. This is a huge investment of time I only justify if current grip is generating both problems or lesions.
@jpradasdiez I'd agree totally and if I wasn't having issues I wouldn't have personally switched myself! I had only kept it in the back of my mind when I learned it in case anyone ever needed it. It turned out I did hahaha
I'd say two circumstances that it would be better for are that and someone at the beginning of their journey who in their particular circumstance this seems to agree with and they haven't developed the traditional grip with hundreds of hours already!
Thanks Rob. EG style imo seems superior for one reason.
Ole sayin “Best ability is Availability”. If EG style takes pressure off elbow ligaments and you suffer from shooters elbow seems like a worthwhile investment learning even if it sets you back in performance short term. Personally I feel your pain going in for PRP injection right elbow next week. I am right handed seems the draw causes most of my problems. Good luck on your road to recovery!
Thanks so much for sharing and watching! I agree and my original intention when starting down this was that "I want to be able to still train while recovering my arm." I tested it live after trying it in dryfire for a few days to make sure it could produce live fire results, and it did - which was surprising to me honestly!
As I've recovered my elbow, I've added back pressure into the support hand, but it's not what it was before at all and is getting better as I dial it in more and more. It's really about fine tuning it and placing my personal understanding and experience behind it at this point as I "make it my own"! Quite honestly, it's fun to get to see if you can replicate results with an entirely different idea - if anything to be able to help more people with options that fit them :)
I got it in my right arm from EG's class in 2023 as well haha but I actually was able to solve it then too without having to switch grips or stop training! I even wrote an article about that journey here - www.ssusa.org/content/elbow-and-hand-longevity-for-the-practical-shooter/ - Maybe that might help you as well!
Thanks for making and sharing your videos! I participated in the EG-CZ Online trainings instructed by EG. I asked him the question on his grip. As you've stated he's had the grip since he was 9, but he still uses it mainly because he has small hands and fingers. He stated that in general, he doesn't teach this grip to new shooters. I have tried to use this grip during live fire training sessions. I have large hands and long fingers, which complicates things alot as far as placement of the WH index finger around the trigger guard. Felt very uncomfortable. In addition the RO's didn't really like it either, because it blocks their clear view of the trigger guard and may give the incorrect appearance that you have a finger in the trigger guard. As you said, shooter's preference ;-)
Thanks for watching and sharing!
I have pretty large hands, but my fingers are normal length id say, not piano fingers haha
Two of the things I wanted to know when I first played around with this was
- can I be comfortable with it in 5 minutes of training? If it was too awkward for me I would have figured out a different way
- how does it look when I'm shooting LIVE? If it's significantly worse then it's likely not worth exploring. In my case, in ideal conditions it was actually better, so it made it worth going down the path of seeing how it works for me so I can share with others!!
I'd say you could also take the traditional looking grip and apply the post/hook concept and less grip pressure idea that Eric uses (maybe he teaches that in his academy? I plan to sign up for it soon!).
I think the best part is that we as students and instructors learn that there are many ways to achieve success so that no matter who you are you can make it happen!!
Another great video.
@@tbenson5966 thanks for always watching them! Keeps me motivated to make more 😁
I find this works better with certain pistols than others depending on their size in relation to your hand size. I can do the Eric Grauffel grip with my Glocks, can't really do it with my Berettas. This finger on the trigger guard grip gets described by different shooters in different ways but they all seem to mean the same thing. I agree that "push/pull" is horribly misleading. When I first actually tried to push/pull I had extreme oscillation. When in reality it is the isometric tension the finger on the trigger guard creates when you push out with your firing hand and the support hand is simply holding onto the trigger guard. Since the support hand is slightly ahead of the strong hand, that small discrepancy in asymmetry is what creates the tension. Even as I hear myself type this I laugh at how hard it is to convey the grip.
Yep! I've found the same as you, although for me personally I could make it work with pretty much every gun I had at the time. It's only something that actually going through it can really help you convey to the best of your ability haha
I'm having trouble with elbow pain on my dominating hand. Could you do a video about elbow angles both with this grip and your old grip? What is the difference between them? Love your videos. Thank you 😊
@@tmksolfilm I can see about that, great idea!!
I'm going to have my kids try this.
Awesome let me know how it works for them!
Thanks for the video and content!
You mention it feels different in movement. Is that because there's more tension in the body than traditional grip?
For sure and thanks for watching and for the questions!
Not that there's tension persay, but because what was subconscious and not thought about is now different so I'm noticing it. Also in more dynamic situations while I'm learning to master it it just behaves differently than before.
Not good or bad. Just different! And as I dial it in I'm sure i won't even notice anymore haha
Austin Prolux shoots like this as he learned on the 1911 in .45 from a young age. He also drives/twists his wrists slightly together. It’s interesting, but I struggle with it.
Yep! I do whats called an upside down horseshoe in my normal grip - imagine an upside down horseshoe in your hands and try to straighten it.
I don't use it so much with this though. It's interesting to use vastly different techniques and still end up with a decent result though!
I need to try this! My elbow has been killing me for weeks.
Question for you Rob: are you going to continue to shoot this way after you heal? And do you shoot your EDC pistol like this now too?
I've been continuing down this path and I do think it will be the better way! As long as an edc pistol doesn't have a wml (mine doesnt) I would use the same style of grip.
I have added back in support hand grip pressure and am working on more full elbow extension again with good results! I'm able to recover finally and I'm not using as much effort when running the gun now 😁
I'll keep you guys updated!
I used a grip like this for quite awhile to help me compensate for some god awful Carpal tunnel in my strong hand. Before I got surgery
It definitely is something worth experimenting with if you're going through some hand and/or forearm issues!
I'm probably 80-85% recovered by now and I'm still using this, although I've added back grip pressure as tolerable too and it's worked really well.
This is just the Weaver Stance and grip. It's been around since 1950s.
What's old is new lol
I think the interesting thing is people don't really realize that the guy who did the Weaver stance initially looked like this, specifically with the elbows being pretty symmetrical! Most people look at the weaver platform and see a highly bladed stance and stiff firing elbow and highly bent support elbow.
I do think this is conceptually different in that it's not quite "push/pull" as well, as applying that type of concept (at least for me) delivers results that aren't quite as good.