3V 4.6 Swap | Longblock Build | Dyno Numbers | Chapter 2, Part 2

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 พ.ย. 2024

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  • @austinharris3203
    @austinharris3203 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Makes me so happy to see someone putting so much time and effort into a modular three valve. I hope to see more on this engine in the future. I have an 07 that I desperately want to start building!

    • @BradfordsGarage
      @BradfordsGarage  ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Sweet! Glad you’re enjoying it, I know I am! It really is an underrated engine, IMO. Especially for budget friendly swaps in 2V cars or for the sake of not having to coyote swap an S197 car. Good luck on your build!

    • @HeadRush2002
      @HeadRush2002 ปีที่แล้ว

      ​@@BradfordsGarage Hey man, what did you use for exhaust manifolds/headers?
      Did you make a bracket for the throttle cable?
      What did you do about the fuel pressure sensor?
      Thanks

    • @BradfordsGarage
      @BradfordsGarage  ปีที่แล้ว

      @@HeadRush2002 I made an adapter bushing for the fuel pressure sensor. For the headers I cut the flanges off of my 2V headers and welded on 3V flanges. I made the throttle cable bracket.

  • @corbin6564
    @corbin6564 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Dude, great video! You just answered a lot of questions for me that will help with my build.

  • @Meat-Gzer
    @Meat-Gzer ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Street/garage builds are the best! I did some home porting on my 3v heads and threw in all FRPP parts(Hot Rod cams, Intake manifold, throttle body), took about 200-300 lbs out of the car, did all BMR suspension, 4.10 gears, FBO w/HC 11-1 pistons and rods from MMR, makes the 3v a monsters on the streets! I love your build brother keep it coming!

    • @BradfordsGarage
      @BradfordsGarage  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Nice! Did you ever dyno tune it- numbers? Any ET's or lap times anywhere? I was pretty happy with the numbers mine made, and with the FRPP Intake and Accufab it should be about 375rwhp, which aint bad at all out of 281ci with not cam phasing. I kind of wish I had gone with a bigger cam, I think the between the compression ratio, intake and heads I think it would support it now. Any pics/videos of your build anywhere?

    • @Meat-Gzer
      @Meat-Gzer ปีที่แล้ว +1

      ​@@BradfordsGarage I have some videos and pics of a few races, I'll DM you. No dyno numbers yet, but I did do a 1/8 mile draggy test with a friend in the car going up a hill and ran a 7.78! This was before I did the FRRP intake, head porting and H/C pistons, at that time I had a Holly EFI Sniper(do not buy it). I've looked at all kinds of camshafts and I can honestly tell you these 3v's are better off with a mild cam and FI/nitrous. Mod motors don't respond as well with a big camshaft like a push rod would, you can over cam the car and we don't have the displacement for low end torque (even stroking these motors you will get maybe 10-15hp/10-20twq) RPM's are your friend! High compression with nitrous is probably the best and cheapest route to go. That's my next plan since I have 11-1 CR and a build to support it with nitrous, and spinning to 7k with a mild cam, its going to hurt a lot of feelings! 🤣

    • @BradfordsGarage
      @BradfordsGarage  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@Meat-Gzer Right on! Yea, I know you don't want to go too wild with camshafts. The mid-range lift is the bread and butter here. I saw somebody had done the 127600, which is what I was referring to (I have the 127500's) and made really good power with them. Since I run my 3V in my SN with the old 2V computer, I can't phase the cams, which hurts my top end a bit, I know. I think they have like 8º more duration and another .010" lift or something. And I think my combo could handle it. Also wouldn't be afraid to throw 4:10's in if low end suffered tremendously.
      Though, my cams are pretty big compared to the hot rod cams, already.
      With the stock intake HP tops out at 6500, so I could spin it to 7000. I built the bottom and and valve train for it. I'm also running about 11:1 compression ratio. I'm hoping to get it back on the dyno with the FRPP and see what more it puts down and how much higher I can spin it.
      I'll have to check out your stuff when I get a chance. I just saw your message on instagram, so thank for reaching out.

    • @Meat-Gzer
      @Meat-Gzer ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@BradfordsGarage Yes sir! Comps 127500 are very good for what you have going on since you locked out the VCT due to the ECU being a 2v. 127600 are too much for a 281, you would need a stroker/bore and Stage 3 heads to support the additional air flow. The stock 3v heads flow very well, especially since you did the porting and cleaned up the imperfections with a valve job. I hope you upgrade the springs as well for higher rpm and lift? Your top end should be there, low end is a different story. VCT helps with low end torque and emissions, you are correct 4.10s would help you tremendously if you don't feel that pull off the line.
      I didn't check but did you do a stroker kit or you kept the same displacement?
      I would love to see what you put down on the dyno too with everything you've done. It would give me a good idea where mine is. I will probably do some dyno pulls this spring/summer. I'll send you my build list and the racing I've done. All against bigger motors/FI
      PS: you gotta freak'en love 3'vs they are so under rated and can put in work if built right. Old saying " my car's built, not bought"

    • @BradfordsGarage
      @BradfordsGarage  ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Meat-Gzer Yea, for sure! I love this motor and this swap in general. I get so many sideways looks when I tell people about it. Then I tell them it cost less than half of a coyote swap, sounds amazing and puts down the power. For SN guys looking to break the 400hp mark on a budget, I still think this is an incredibly viable swap option. With the suspension upgrades it's a killer at my local track. Supposed to be a 'momentum car' type track, pretty slow and technical, and I've had multiple Miata guys come up to me after a session scratching their heads as to how the Mustang was on their ass through the sweepers. It's a handful. Built, not bought is the icing on the cake, for sure.
      Correct, cylinders are .020 over, stock stroke, forged rods and pistons and 300# PAC springs. I have the cams locked out at 102 degrees- full advance. The VCT would retard them at high rpm and offer more power up top.
      My buddy had a similar build in his Fox, but has functional VCT and he made 387rwhp, and I believe that was with stock CR and intake. He actually just rebuilt with his own custom stroker setup- I want to say it's 13:1 CR and around 295ci, and it put down 418rwhp. It's a bad mother.
      Would love to see more details on your build and some dyno sheets. I'll make sure I share them with you this spring/summer when I get the car back out.

  • @NWOutdoors2017
    @NWOutdoors2017 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I'm really wanting to 3v swap a new edge too but am a little leary in doing so because I've seen several different articles on what it takes to do it. Is there any way you could give a few details or maybe a quick video of what is needed? Your build is great! Please share, thanks!

    • @BradfordsGarage
      @BradfordsGarage  ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks man! That is something I've considered doing- an overview of what it takes to 3V swap one of these cars. If you want to shoot me an email, Bradley.daniels@gmail.com, I'll give you a rundown of what it takes, for now.

  • @jayg713
    @jayg713 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I am in the process of doing the same swap so you have a write up in the wiring or some sort of chart i am having trouble with that thanks great videos

  • @donaldspeck9212
    @donaldspeck9212 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Another Awesome video !
    What cam lift and duration did you select?
    My 5.4 3v I went with
    225° I/ 233° E duration
    .492 I/ .497 E lift
    113 lsa
    102 centerline
    Also new beehive springs @ .550 lift
    Comps phaser limiter kit.
    On another one of your videos I mentioned that
    I would like to get 400rwhp, I realize now that's probably not gonna happen.
    Hopefully 360.
    You had mentioned getting different dished pistons, I have new flat top hypereutectic pistons, is that my best option? My build is completely all new except for the block and heads. This gonna be my daily driver and just want a little more kick when needed. Not gonna be trying to outrun anyone...lol
    Thank You for making these videos. They are so informative and eye opening.
    ☆keep them coming ☆

    • @BradfordsGarage
      @BradfordsGarage  ปีที่แล้ว

      Sounds like you're on the right track!
      I am running flat-top pistons in my engine. No PTV clearance issues with the 127500 cams- .550/.535 E/I lift locked on 102 degrees. The extra compression is great!
      Who is doing the machine work on your block and heads?

  • @mtbmaverik5826
    @mtbmaverik5826 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Is 6000rpm where you are seeing 352hp? It seems like its still climbing at 6, whats it making at 7k? I've seen some 3V dyno graphs where they are making max hp between 6-6.25 but others seem to make max hp near 6.7k with fewer mods. Awesome work and videos btw, thanks for putting this series together!

    • @BradfordsGarage
      @BradfordsGarage  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thanks! I asked the guy who dyno tuned it the same question and he said that's just a blip that happens when you let off the throttle for some reason. He was confident it wouldn't make anything more past that with the stock intake manifold. With the FRPP intake and TB, I can definitely feel it still pulling as the rev limiter kicks in, so we're going to run it on the dyno again and raise the rev limiter to 7k+.

    • @dougzack4565
      @dougzack4565 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@BradfordsGarageDid you get it on the dyno again and raise the limiter?

  • @BLEEDBLUE222
    @BLEEDBLUE222 ปีที่แล้ว

    First video I've seen like this about the 4.6 3v awesome video brother. I'm assuming you live in southeast Michigan because you said you went to livernoise. Do you build motors?

    • @BradfordsGarage
      @BradfordsGarage  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thanks man. Yea, I'm in MI. I don't build them as a career, (I'm a machinist/fabricator/welder by trade) or generally take on customer work, but I've built a handful for my own projects.

  • @jeffsnyder2051
    @jeffsnyder2051 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    i understand that the cams can be off from each other quite abit or is that only on the 2 valve? great video!!

    • @BradfordsGarage
      @BradfordsGarage  2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      There can be variation in actual centerline of any camshaft, which can vary one to the other whenever you have more than one camshaft in an engine. Adjustable gears are a good idea so you can get them dialed in.

  • @christianreyes368
    @christianreyes368 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Currently working on my 3v. Doing a lot of what you’re doing but not going nearly as deep. Doing the Boss 302 rod upgrade and just polishing the crank and doing new bearings. I’ll be gasket matching the heads and doing a valve job. What made you choose the 127500’s over the 600’s? I’m wanting as much power in the top end as possible and I’ve seen a few with the 600’s. Just wanted to know why you chose the 500’s. Awesome video.

    • @BradfordsGarage
      @BradfordsGarage  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Sweet! I did the 500's because I still street drive the car.
      I wouldn't bother gasket matching the heads and definitely don't remove material from the floor of the ports. The ports on these engines are borderline too big already. There was an article where Livernois was quoted saying exactly that. In the intake ports, the bump around the spark plug hole is a big choke point. No sense in increasing the cross section of the mouth of the port if you're not going to do it anywhere else. When I ported my heads I opened them up everywhere. The exhaust port can be opened up everywhere, especially the bowl on the long turn side below the valve seat, just don't go too far...and don't ruin the short turn. The biggest gains you'll see will be made from the valve job and bowl work/pocket porting. I blew mine up already (dropped a valve...race cars *sigh*) so I'm doing another set of heads right now and that's all I'm planning to do this time around. Not even replying the valves, haha.
      Have fun! 😃

    • @christianreyes368
      @christianreyes368 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@BradfordsGarage how’d you blow it up😅 I had a 160k miles on mine, would autocross and road race every weekend for the last two years and I’ve been hitting the drag strip since it was stock before 100k miles. I just ran an 11.9 with a 75 shot of nitrous. My main goal is just making it a more efficient motor that can handle more nitrous even if I don’t make extra NA power

    • @BradfordsGarage
      @BradfordsGarage  ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@christianreyes368 Right on.
      It's hard to say exactly what happened that caused it, but the head of one of my intake valves broke off. It had an excessively worn valve guide, and eventually just fatigued it. What caused the wear in the valve guide, I'm not positive. I replaced all of the valve guides when I ported the heads and the other 23 are still perfect- showing no signs of wear or failure. One theory I have is that the valve seat dropped out. The other is maybe the valve guide wasn't square to the camshaft and it was side loading the valve a little bit.
      Probably never know for sure. But I ordered a new piston, bearings, followers, a camshaft and am in the process of building it again. Will be fun to see the difference in the HP with the different approach to the heads this time around.

    • @christianreyes368
      @christianreyes368 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@BradfordsGarage that’s awesome man. I recently laid down 341whp at 6600rpm and 300lbs of torque at 5100rpm. What other bolts ons and do you have that work so well with the 500’s to give you that insane torque?

    • @BradfordsGarage
      @BradfordsGarage  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@christianreyes368 Sweet! I’d say the torque is coming from the 11:1 compression and the fact that I used oversized valves to keep the throat ratio around 88-89%, where these port jobs generally end up 91%+ with standard sized valves to get the bowls blended. Joe Mondello did an interview for an article in engine builder magazine a long time ago where he talked about the importance of keeping throat ratios around 87% to retain low end power. All out race cars benefit in that 92% range, but it’s too big for a street driven car that lives mostly in the low-mid range. Also- valve job, 4 or even 5 angles, and getting those angles right. Air velocity is king.
      With the new heads, I plan to maintain an 89% throat ratio but with standard sized valves. The last time around I went to a LOT of trouble- grinding my 1mm oversized valves down to .5mm oversize, recutting all the faces and back cuts, etc. to achieve the throat ratios with the throats opened up. It was quite a process. I imagine I’ll lose some top end HP by leaving the throats smaller, but Ill run less risk dropping a seat or losing any torque.
      For those numbers I was running the stock intake, 03-04 Cobra TB, gutted CMC plates, long tubes, underdrive damper, stock injectors, cobra fuel pumps, flat top pistons (11:1 CR) 127500’s locked out on 102° and the hand porting. Aluminum flywheel and driveshaft helped some.
      For you, if you’re actually running a S197 car, you should be able to retain some VCT and make better power up top. My cams are locked for low end power, it would make more HP if I’d timed them to like 106°, but torque would have suffered.

  • @Mafia.thedon
    @Mafia.thedon ปีที่แล้ว

    Can you please show the wiring I have the swap done I’m just trying to figure out some wiring

    • @BradfordsGarage
      @BradfordsGarage  ปีที่แล้ว

      That's something I wish I would have documented better. What I can tell you off the top of my head is you'll have to swap injector connectors or use the adapters, the fuel regulator from the 2V has to be used, which requires an adapter, the throttle position connector will have to be lengthened, the cam position sensor has to be routed to the right bank...I'm sure there's more I'm not thinking of off the top of my head. Did you modify the camshaft trigger wheel?

  • @chrismason1167
    @chrismason1167 ปีที่แล้ว

    Why would I need to put shims in? I own 2007 mustang GT 4.6 3V. I'm buying new HLA and can followers. I see people just soaking them in oil over night and installing them. Is this incorrect?

    • @BradfordsGarage
      @BradfordsGarage  ปีที่แล้ว

      Hard to say for sure, Chris. The factory spec is .018"-.033" lash on a fully collapsed adjuster, measuring between the roller and the base circle on the cam. Performance applications have a tendency to spit the followers out at the upper ends of that range, so some engine builders recommend .018"-.024". Chances are, you're fine if all you're doing is swapping in new lash adjusters and followers and nothing else has changed. But I personally would check at least a few. Check out my second video on the 3V cylinder heads- I go over setting up the valve train.

    • @chrismason1167
      @chrismason1167 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@BradfordsGarage thank you I will definitely give that a look. I'm just replacing the camshafts, lash adjusters, cam followers. I had the machine shop replace a bent valve and reset the rest making sure all the valves were flush with the cylinder head and no leaks.

  • @robertkrupa2552
    @robertkrupa2552 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    T-56 or 3650 in the car?

    • @BradfordsGarage
      @BradfordsGarage  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      This car actually has a T45 in it.

    • @robertkrupa2552
      @robertkrupa2552 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@BradfordsGarage sweet setup, thanks for all the vids with the killer tech info. Keep posting!

    • @BradfordsGarage
      @BradfordsGarage  ปีที่แล้ว

      @@robertkrupa2552 Thanks!!

    • @robertkrupa2552
      @robertkrupa2552 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I have a 3v swap new edge also, but my channel is weak! I need to get some vids posted and hopefully we can all learn from each other. I have some gear noise in my 3650 trans at idle, otherwise the thing rips, tons of fun to drive with the 3.73's!

    • @BradfordsGarage
      @BradfordsGarage  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@robertkrupa2552 Thats right! I do remember watching your videos. Is your car running and driving now?