While I don't necessarily agree with you all on the AI stuff, I can see where you're coming from. I was using things like cursor and copilot for a while, but then I noticed two things happening after a couple of months: 1) I had a harder time solving problems without AI, and more importantly 2) coding just wasn't fun anymore. I got into this business because I enjoy programming, and AI just sucks the joy out of it for me. Also, if you all are able to get Casey Muratori on as a guest, I think that would be a great episode. I think he brings a really good perspective to the way software is written now vs. 10+ years ago. Thanks again for putting out great shows! I always learn something or gain a new perspective from all of them.
I would add that while there is no argument that it’s the future, it is worth a moment of compassion for all the engineers who will be losing or have lost work as companies replace engineering teams with an engineer with a copilot license.
@@RyanForT3hWin I really don't think we're going to lose those engineers though, I just think the type, breadth and features of the software we build will grow and get better
For me, i really hate that ai can write a function quicker than me or create a class faster than me. I always make sure i understand the code it provides , but for alot of things its just quicker.
How can I submit a question to the next podcast? I am wondering how would you implement inline edit for some list rendered in a table. My problem, I cannot easily integrate a form element for each table row and then use react-form-hook for validation and other goodies. Would you put a single form on the whole table?
I do really like Arc, but it's basically dead now. I am using Zen now and it's mostly great. It does take some customizing and getting used to. I might switch back to Arc at some point, but I want to give Zen a shot for a bit. It's open source and being actively developed.
I tried and failed to switch from Arc to Zen on Windows. Then I got a Mac work computer and Arc on there is insanely better. But I do think Zen is the future. How’d you make the switch and on what OS?
Scott sticking out his neck for React lmao. Brave man, we should follow his example... Coffescript isn't terrible, it is perfectly acceptable to write a project in Coffeescript and never ever show it to anyone!!!
Still a firefox dev user, but be interested in the Edge video. Since Jenn left and they fired most of their developer advocates it's definitely lost some of it's luster for me. I will say though that I think the chrome team is honestly moving too fast in how they are shipping CSS currently, so Safari and Mozilla dragging them a bit is probably a good thing.
Apologies, I think it was this podcast where you had a discussion about sources of “truth”. And as (Relearning; switching spheres from Swift/Java/C to HTML/CSS/JS (which I enjoy as problem domain is smaller)) a solo dev I don’t have peers to rely on for recommendations. How do you filter down and up from that. I can trust as little devs I come across vs AI because I don’t know them.
Typescript being as configurable as it is was a mistake from the start. Should be as strict as possible. If you don't want to type your stuff properly or handle errors, just stick to Javascript. The Go approach is great.
Just joining in here to say that Polypane also has per-tab sessions that work like Firefox's containers. No rebooting needed, no separate windows, and extensions are automatically installed in all sessions!
We are in that ugly phase of AI where we are adamant that every trivial and non trivial problem we have as humans and business owners can be solved with AI. We will eventually mature and reach a place where this reactionary, out of control enthusiasm settles and becomes more like a falcon 9 landing. A boring revolution to the masses, but incredible leverage to the informed.
Does anyone actually use agentic ai in production at a customer facing website and if they do is it an old code base with tech debt ? I think prompting is genuinely 100% helpful, autocomplete good for boilerplate and finishing off logical operators but you get into massive pot holes if you allow it to generate too much of the code, difficult to find bugs will be throughout the generated code. My main problem with the agentic tools is the same as over using auto complete, it will inevitably add in a bug since it produced the bug in the first place prompting it to fix the bug will be very time consuming. I am not going to start using a tool because in the next iteration of these tools it might actually fix more problems than it creates. Let's seperate what are the good AI tools and what is the hype "agentic". Copying and pasting code from a prompt into a file is not time consuming, creating files formatting code none of this isn't actually solving a difficult problem.
Well, list are actually for list of items. Can we count a group of products be a list of products? Yep. So why not use it. Anyway, you almost always have a wrapper element to make a grid, ul also perfectly fits. I almost always agree with you on topics but this one is not
Additionally other tools like screen readers and seo engines view your products not like a bunch of random article elements but a grouped list of article elements
Per section usage as a wrapper, check section docs on MDN - Sections should always have a heading, with very few exceptions. I bet you don't add headings inside wrappers :)
@@syntaxfm same thing, it's a list of items. Simple ul element fits perfectly while each blog post in an article element. I find it to be a perfect semantic wrapper for a list of same items
What interface have you tried them in? I've found that the most useful tools are the ones that use your entire codebase and docs as context, otherwise they can easily give you a bunch of junk code.
@@syntaxfm Mostly just the web interfaces. Even when I give it all the context and info it could need and it doesn't have any unneeded info to confuse it the results are just terrible. I've paid for the latest and greatest models from every company that is the current hype. They get one right, that's nice, but they hallucinate BS into the code the next two times and I waste more time than I saved. Nothing I've seen gives me any interest in messing around with something like cursor. The AI generating words that sounds plausible isn't good enough. I'm not doing super basic, super common stuff. If the AI can handle it, I could have easily just done it. If I'd have to look at the docs, AI will fail. It's all hype IMO.
Keep an open mind here. Tools like Cursor Composer are light years ahead of using copilot as autocomplete or chatgpt. Mostly because it is a collaborative workflow that can make informed changes across your entire project, using your code style, your css systems and types. Give it a try before declaring it useless.
@@syntaxfm You guys have fun with it. I'm out on LLMs for 2025. I do see the potential value, but I think it's still years away from being where the hype vendors like this channel pretend it is.
I don't quite agree with your container recommendations for product list items. I would always use ul/ol for that imagine a screenreader parsing the page. your ecom items are a LIST, so let the screenreader inform the user it's a list
Maybe before article existed, but article is specifically for this purpose. Many things that you use an article for could be conceptually considered a list, but articles are for content like that.
I feel that you guys could do clips of the full time podcast. I love the podcast but sometimes I can’t listen to the full hour podcast and maybe clips could be useful for shorter available view times
While I don't necessarily agree with you all on the AI stuff, I can see where you're coming from. I was using things like cursor and copilot for a while, but then I noticed two things happening after a couple of months: 1) I had a harder time solving problems without AI, and more importantly 2) coding just wasn't fun anymore. I got into this business because I enjoy programming, and AI just sucks the joy out of it for me. Also, if you all are able to get Casey Muratori on as a guest, I think that would be a great episode. I think he brings a really good perspective to the way software is written now vs. 10+ years ago. Thanks again for putting out great shows! I always learn something or gain a new perspective from all of them.
I would add that while there is no argument that it’s the future, it is worth a moment of compassion for all the engineers who will be losing or have lost work as companies replace engineering teams with an engineer with a copilot license.
@@RyanForT3hWin I really don't think we're going to lose those engineers though, I just think the type, breadth and features of the software we build will grow and get better
I hope that’s the case, and I’m just worried from a selfish place.
For me, i really hate that ai can write a function quicker than me or create a class faster than me. I always make sure i understand the code it provides , but for alot of things its just quicker.
24:00 cmd+shift+a to jump to a tap you want. Works in a bunch of browsers. You could probably remap the shortcut if need be.
Firefox containers is what keeps me on firefox. This is so underrated. Containers is not the same as profiles in Arc or other browsers
What make them different?
Hey guys, can you share the link for the 3d configurator you mentioned in 13:50 please?
How can I submit a question to the next podcast? I am wondering how would you implement inline edit for some list rendered in a table. My problem, I cannot easily integrate a form element for each table row and then use react-form-hook for validation and other goodies. Would you put a single form on the whole table?
Submit here. syntax.fm/potluck
I do really like Arc, but it's basically dead now. I am using Zen now and it's mostly great. It does take some customizing and getting used to. I might switch back to Arc at some point, but I want to give Zen a shot for a bit. It's open source and being actively developed.
To me, Zen felt like a normal browser with a coat of paint to make it look like Arc without most of its features - Scott
I tried and failed to switch from Arc to Zen on Windows. Then I got a Mac work computer and Arc on there is insanely better. But I do think Zen is the future.
How’d you make the switch and on what OS?
Scott sticking out his neck for React lmao. Brave man, we should follow his example... Coffescript isn't terrible, it is perfectly acceptable to write a project in Coffeescript and never ever show it to anyone!!!
Still a firefox dev user, but be interested in the Edge video. Since Jenn left and they fired most of their developer advocates it's definitely lost some of it's luster for me. I will say though that I think the chrome team is honestly moving too fast in how they are shipping CSS currently, so Safari and Mozilla dragging them a bit is probably a good thing.
Apologies, I think it was this podcast where you had a discussion about sources of “truth”. And as (Relearning; switching spheres from Swift/Java/C to HTML/CSS/JS (which I enjoy as problem domain is smaller)) a solo dev I don’t have peers to rely on for recommendations. How do you filter down and up from that. I can trust as little devs I come across vs AI because I don’t know them.
Typescript being as configurable as it is was a mistake from the start. Should be as strict as possible. If you don't want to type your stuff properly or handle errors, just stick to Javascript. The Go approach is great.
I believe this is why “Effect” has grown so much in popularity. You are right, even though I’m a TS lover.
Just joining in here to say that Polypane also has per-tab sessions that work like Firefox's containers. No rebooting needed, no separate windows, and extensions are automatically installed in all sessions!
We are in that ugly phase of AI where we are adamant that every trivial and non trivial problem we have as humans and business owners can be solved with AI.
We will eventually mature and reach a place where this reactionary, out of control enthusiasm settles and becomes more like a falcon 9 landing. A boring revolution to the masses, but incredible leverage to the informed.
Totally. The out of control enthusiasm is clearly a major turn off for a lot of people too.
theres a sync engine for sqlite called cr-sqlite, idk if its production ready yet or not
Does anyone actually use agentic ai in production at a customer facing website and if they do is it an old code base with tech debt ? I think prompting is genuinely 100% helpful, autocomplete good for boilerplate and finishing off logical operators but you get into massive pot holes if you allow it to generate too much of the code, difficult to find bugs will be throughout the generated code. My main problem with the agentic tools is the same as over using auto complete, it will inevitably add in a bug since it produced the bug in the first place prompting it to fix the bug will be very time consuming. I am not going to start using a tool because in the next iteration of these tools it might actually fix more problems than it creates. Let's seperate what are the good AI tools and what is the hype "agentic". Copying and pasting code from a prompt into a file is not time consuming, creating files formatting code none of this isn't actually solving a difficult problem.
Ur on the wrong side of the internet if u think rss feeds are gone. Im subbed to a bunch
What are your favorite subs
Well, list are actually for list of items. Can we count a group of products be a list of products? Yep. So why not use it. Anyway, you almost always have a wrapper element to make a grid, ul also perfectly fits. I almost always agree with you on topics but this one is not
Additionally other tools like screen readers and seo engines view your products not like a bunch of random article elements but a grouped list of article elements
Per section usage as a wrapper, check section docs on MDN - Sections should always have a heading, with very few exceptions. I bet you don't add headings inside wrappers :)
What would you use for a “list” feed of blog posts?
@@syntaxfm same thing, it's a list of items. Simple ul element fits perfectly while each blog post in an article element. I find it to be a perfect semantic wrapper for a list of same items
So you put ul>li>article?
TruthSeeker would love the book The Scout Mindset
Interesting looking book, never heard of it.
@@syntaxfm It's been my favourite book ever since it came out! Definitely my sick pick for you 😄
i think ai is awesome and super helpful.
I don't believe there is any productivity advantage to using AI tools. They waste more of my time than they save every time I try.
What interface have you tried them in? I've found that the most useful tools are the ones that use your entire codebase and docs as context, otherwise they can easily give you a bunch of junk code.
@@syntaxfm Mostly just the web interfaces. Even when I give it all the context and info it could need and it doesn't have any unneeded info to confuse it the results are just terrible. I've paid for the latest and greatest models from every company that is the current hype. They get one right, that's nice, but they hallucinate BS into the code the next two times and I waste more time than I saved.
Nothing I've seen gives me any interest in messing around with something like cursor. The AI generating words that sounds plausible isn't good enough. I'm not doing super basic, super common stuff. If the AI can handle it, I could have easily just done it. If I'd have to look at the docs, AI will fail. It's all hype IMO.
Keep an open mind here. Tools like Cursor Composer are light years ahead of using copilot as autocomplete or chatgpt. Mostly because it is a collaborative workflow that can make informed changes across your entire project, using your code style, your css systems and types. Give it a try before declaring it useless.
@@syntaxfm You guys have fun with it. I'm out on LLMs for 2025. I do see the potential value, but I think it's still years away from being where the hype vendors like this channel pretend it is.
..and a nightmare for production support, unless you are vetting the ai code implementation. AI tools are turning developers into ai code testers.
I don't quite agree with your container recommendations for product list items.
I would always use ul/ol for that
imagine a screenreader parsing the page. your ecom items are a LIST, so let the screenreader inform the user it's a list
Maybe before article existed, but article is specifically for this purpose. Many things that you use an article for could be conceptually considered a list, but articles are for content like that.
Jen Simmons would disagree. There is a reason lists are used, for, well, lists of things.
I feel that you guys could do clips of the full time podcast. I love the podcast but sometimes I can’t listen to the full hour podcast and maybe clips could be useful for shorter available view times
Firefox for life
Are y’all putting out more episodes at a faster pace now? I need to catch up 😅
We’re actually putting out less. We have stopped the Friday pod to focus more on video.
Time for russian internet.