Hi Dale, I just love to watch your channel, I really like the way you explain everything and take us through the whole process step by step I think you have done a really good job on making the tool for what you need. I’m so glad I stumbled across your channel. I can’t wait to see you strip down the engine I sure you are on the money when you said It was a lack of lubrication because the oil pump was bad. See you in the shop next time my friend all the best Brian.
Thank you for the kind words, Brian, going to try to start on this engine soon, inquiring minds as they say! I want to know, and I also want to see the new tool in action.
What a fun Saturday morning starting out Dale! This stuff takes me way back to younger days, when I'd go to the Industrial Shows at the Von Braun Civic Center, here in Huntsville, when CNC machines were first being introduced. I'd stand there watching those things, totally fascinated with them, til my legs went numb. They'd have to run me out at the end of the day with threats of bodily harm.
BTW, do you have, or have ever seen one of those "spot facing" boring heads?? You can set the height, or depth, and walk the cutter out horizontally, literally planing a surface. My next door neighbor had one, that was in a bunch of machining tools he inherited, and he didn't know what it was. He brought it over to my house for me to look at, and I used the thing quite a bit. He moved away a couple years ago, and declined selling it to me. I think it was a Chandler, or something similar (remember, I'm old, and and have slept since then, so remembering the name accurately is outside my wheelhouse any more). I'm really disappointed I couldn't get him to sell it to me.
Thanks Johnnie, I can believe that for sure, I was much the same way any time something mechanical came to the local community. I to this day am amazed and mesmerized by the workings of machines, I too can watch it for hours, guess I am in good company.
I found myself sweeping the chips off my tablet on the close-ups!🙄 I would have never guessed this was the way the twins come apart. Can't wait to see the crank disassembly video!
Sorry Wayne had the speed set to high. Not all twins come apart this way, as they got newer, they went to press pin. Cost a lot more to cut splines. Hoping next week on the disassembly video.
Sorry Dale, I didn't intend that to sound like a criticism! I'm not sure why, but I love watching machining processes (especially on motorcycles I'm familiar with) and with that close-up, It was almost like I was doing the machining, and of course I needed to clear away the chips🙂! I just recently purchased a small used mill/lathe, so it's a greatl learning opportunity watching quality workmanship taking place, even for my simple projects. Looking forward to the next video!
No no no, not taken as criticism. I was trying to be funny by saying the speed was too fast and throwing chips on your tablet. I know exactly what you're saying, I watch a lot of the real machine shop channels on TH-cam. I really enjoy the machining content. I try to keep mine relevant to motorcycles, but I enjoy all of it. Thats great that you made the purchase of some equipment, I know you're enjoying them and learning a lot. Thanks again for hanging out in the shop with me.
Yeah, it's different for sure, they really don't seal like a rubber seal does, its purpose is just to slow the flow of fluids across it. Low pressure air can still move thru. When you do a leak down check on a twin you do both cylinders at the same time. So, your air pressure does go thru the labyrinth seal. Thanks buddy
A friend of mine bought a Yamaha 180 twin about 40 years ago. He complained it had no bottom end power. I remember seeing bubbles coming out of the crankcase between the cylinders.
Dale: You should run a school! Thanks again for the effort, another great video which I learned from as I have a couple of YR1 and YR2 cranks and a YDS5 crank as well that may well need care!
if you wanted 2 you could put in 4 push bolts at opsite corners on each side to even out the pressure if needed, but you already know that,, the ol bridgeport comes in real handy, im going 2 try an get one someday, thats what you call a real mechanic when you make a tool 2 do a job, good work as usual dale, your what you call highly skilled personnel LOL. catch-u-on the next one ol buddy...
Hey James, hope all is going well with your project. Yes, it could have been built with two more push bolts, but it really wasn't that hard to separate, I just use a 6-inch ratchet to do it. You said it my friend, the mill and the lathe are as handy as a button on a shirt. I highly recommend the purchase of these fine tools if you can. It is so much fun to do this stuff. They really expand what you can do with your hobby. Thanks for watching buddy.
Hi Dale, Yamaha told dealers they needed the service kits for the bikes they stocked and sold then made them buy the kits. Many shops didn't stock or sell some models so never had various special tools, just the common service kit The Yamaha kits were the most expensive of any from 'The Big Four' but some things you could return to Yamaha for repair or testing which Honda and Suzuki didn't offer as a service to dealers. (I don't know about Kawasaki as I never worked in Kawasaki dealers) One thing I always liked about the Yamaha twins was they used a wide labyrinth (lab-err-inth) center seal. You wouldn't believe the problems I've had with Suzuki twin's where crankcase can wear so single rubber seal slides out, contacts flywheel and destroys itself. I would think you would go to 2.960" first then do each plate individually leaving 45 degree chamfer to match chamfer on flywheel. To do counter-bore to clear labyrinth seal, mount in a four jaw and face it back, probably easier than setting up a rotary table? Personally, I always just removed outside flywheel then pressed center section, we never did enough of them to justify special tool even when later RD250/350 was selling real well. Once it was apart it was simple enough to build two singles then press back together. The XS 650 uses same basic layout but has more space as it doesn't need sealing between cylinders. Didn't know you were doing a Honda 175, boring for customer? (saw block on bench 😀)
Wow, you definitely know more about it than I do. It has been 45 plus years since I even saw the tool, and really don't remember much about the procedure except that I remembered them being splined. I remember doing one and watching my boss do another one. Well, the tool worked out great the way I fabricated it, and also worked as a press plate, to press the other crank out of the labyrinth seal housing. Thanks for the pronunciation, I probably still can't say it right. I thought about just pressing the outside wheels off and just getting it done but wanted to build the tool for the channel. Seems to have been quite the interest to many. I know very few have the capability to build this tool but most of them really enjoy the building and fabrication I show on my channel. I have noticed an increase in the Machine shop viewers tuning in. They really keep me on my toes. There are many different ways to go about building such a thing, but this is how I elected to do it. Good or bad it got the job done, but I am sure it could be improved on. So, thanks for all the great info, and the video on this disassembly will probably be up this weekend, so keep an eye out for it. Yes, you probably have already seen the boring of the CB175 Honda. If not, it is up now. Just wish I could find more Honda's, just not available in my area for some reason. Seems to be a large following of Honda stuff. Thanks, again for all the super info and your superb understanding and experience, it is invaluable.
@@montana2strokeracer Hi Dale, I started in Honda dealers (plus MZ, Yamaha and Triumph-Meriden) so consider myself a Honda mechanic even though I actually spent several years more at Suzuki (BMW, Yamaha, Vespa) dealers. I mainly trained as machinist to put BSA parts into my Royal Enfield's, (plus make 'unobtainium' parts) then, did a few years in factory precision machining. Hated clocking on and off and when management cut machining times in half I lost interest. (how I got into Honda dealers, they had a small lathe and I modified clutch center to get something back on the road, plus, the head mechanic 'went missing' for three months) Spent way too much time yelling 'valve springs' or 'piston rings' I was forever having to show people correct installation. The twelve years teaching at MMI Orlando taught me that even experienced people can still learn stuff and beginners can find amazing new ways to break stuff, (including me, who knew teaching was so dangerous?) Majority of Harley instructors hated me. "HD only make 3 bikes, Sportster, Big Twin, V-Rod, changing tanks, seats, forks and wheels does not make a new model, it's something I did for fun in early 70's" Some just couldn't see the joke. I feel like I should make some video's but it's damn hard work, much easier to chime in with random thoughts and stuff
@@montana2strokeracer LOL, well of course I don't know whether two bolts was enough because you left us all on a cliff hanger! Oh well I guess I'll just have to wait until you post up the next video, please hurry up!
Patience my friend, it will be up for the weekend, trying to get two videos ready to upload over the weekend. Sure appreciate you following the channel.
That tool is a great idea, they don't show that in the newer manuals even as far back as the 80's. I've got a 350 twin to rebuild, and I'm going to make myself the same thing, now that I've seen this. Can't wait to see it in action. Too bad they don't make the 90 twin today. Where do you get the new bearings from, Yamaha, or aftermarket? They last longer because two doing the work sharing the load, is better than one.
Hey John, thanks for the kind words my friend! Not sure of what models are splined, I know some of the later RD engines have press pins instead of splines. I think it is more like the YD, DS, YM. I am chopping at the bit to try it out also. Got some measuring to do before I push it apart. I usually buy aftermarket SKF or KOYO bearings. I usually get the C3 tolerance, but I see on this twin the center bearings call for C4.
Dale, do you reckon it would be a good idea if you drilled a sallow divot where the bolt tips touch the opposite side of the separator to stop them sliding around. I noticed you where having trouble keeping them in place
Dale you talk about working on these 40 years ago and the memory is flickering, as for me its been 60 years sense i was involved with a motorcycle dealer. talk about memory fade! LOL
Yes, I know, I am really pressing more like fifty years, 47 or 48 for sure. Lots of stuff seem to escape my brain these days, have trouble talking too. Guess it's just part of it. Definitely the bad part.
@@montana2strokeracer sorry to say its just the start, the golden age isnt what its supposed to be. im always evaluating my progression into this time and not liking what im seeing.LOL
I know buddy, never thought I'd see the day that I couldn't pee. The golden age is for sure twice the fun for half the pay, but all the physical difficulty's suck.
Did you buy 4140 hardened or was it something soft like 1018? Was your lip angled or a square step? If you are bothered by the thread friction, there is enough room to add some axial bearings on the grade 8 bolts then push against nuts. I want to see the labrynth seal.
Hey Rowland, nothing exotic here, just 6 x 5 x 3/4 flat bar in 1018. the step is square, I really don't think it's needed Rowland, but we will see, the idea is to just clamp it tight, I think. I just can't find a good picture and it's just been too long since I saw one. No, I'm not worried about the friction, I ran a tap through it again and all is fine. Yes again, it's just been too long since I saw the labyrinth seal on this one. I want to say it is a rubber type, but not sure.
I try to use Cleveland bits. Taps and Dies are GTD, Greenfield tap and die, think they are under Wilda these days. Just like USA products for most tooling.
Hi Dale, I just love to watch your channel, I really like the way you explain everything and take us through the whole process step by step I think you have done a really good job on making the tool for what you need. I’m so glad I stumbled across your channel. I can’t wait to see you strip down the engine I sure you are on the money when you said It was a lack of lubrication because the oil pump was bad. See you in the shop next time my friend all the best Brian.
Thank you for the kind words, Brian, going to try to start on this engine soon, inquiring minds as they say! I want to know, and I also want to see the new tool in action.
What a fun Saturday morning starting out Dale! This stuff takes me way back to younger days, when I'd go to the Industrial Shows at the Von Braun Civic Center, here in Huntsville, when CNC machines were first being introduced. I'd stand there watching those things, totally fascinated with them, til my legs went numb. They'd have to run me out at the end of the day with threats of bodily harm.
BTW, do you have, or have ever seen one of those "spot facing" boring heads?? You can set the height, or depth, and walk the cutter out horizontally, literally planing a surface. My next door neighbor had one, that was in a bunch of machining tools he inherited, and he didn't know what it was. He brought it over to my house for me to look at, and I used the thing quite a bit. He moved away a couple years ago, and declined selling it to me. I think it was a Chandler, or something similar (remember, I'm old, and and have slept since then, so remembering the name accurately is outside my wheelhouse any more). I'm really disappointed I couldn't get him to sell it to me.
Thanks Johnnie, I can believe that for sure, I was much the same way any time something mechanical came to the local community. I to this day am amazed and mesmerized by the workings of machines, I too can watch it for hours, guess I am in good company.
I don't think I have seen what you're referring to. Sounds interesting for sure, understand your disappointment.
You are so fortunate to have the machinery and knowledge to make the tools that you need. Problem solving at its best!
You said it, KNOWLEDGE, to use them. Machinist are a special breed.
Thank you, Pete, I am learning every day. I'm just a tool hound, that's what I do instead of new cars. LOL
Thanks for the kind words my friend, but I am not a machinist by any stretch. Just a hobby guy that likes to try and learn new things.
Very nicely made Dale. I'm looking forward to seeing it in action.
Best wishes, Dean.
Me too Dean, maybe next video, we will see. Hope it works!
I found myself sweeping the chips off my tablet on the close-ups!🙄
I would have never guessed this was the way the twins come apart. Can't wait to see the crank disassembly video!
Sorry Wayne had the speed set to high. Not all twins come apart this way, as they got newer, they went to press pin. Cost a lot more to cut splines. Hoping next week on the disassembly video.
Sorry Dale, I didn't intend that to sound like a criticism! I'm not sure why, but I love watching machining processes (especially on motorcycles I'm familiar with) and with that close-up, It was almost like I was doing the machining, and of course I needed to clear away the chips🙂!
I just recently purchased a small used mill/lathe, so it's a greatl learning opportunity watching quality workmanship taking place, even for my simple projects.
Looking forward to the next video!
No no no, not taken as criticism. I was trying to be funny by saying the speed was too fast and throwing chips on your tablet. I know exactly what you're saying, I watch a lot of the real machine shop channels on TH-cam. I really enjoy the machining content. I try to keep mine relevant to motorcycles, but I enjoy all of it. Thats great that you made the purchase of some equipment, I know you're enjoying them and learning a lot. Thanks again for hanging out in the shop with me.
Looking good Dale, you always seem to resolve the problem, no matter the task or complexity.
Thanks Larry, I am still hoping it will work, all I have is a glimmer of a memory and a picture in a book.
Beautiful work Dale. Hope the follow up isn't too long coming. Really looking forward to see it in use.
Cheers, Peter.
Thanks Peter, I think next week I will have it in action. I am looking forward to it too. Got to get measurements first though.
I always thought it was an unusual way to seal between the crankcases.
Love your videos!
Yeah, it's different for sure, they really don't seal like a rubber seal does, its purpose is just to slow the flow of fluids across it. Low pressure air can still move thru. When you do a leak down check on a twin you do both cylinders at the same time. So, your air pressure does go thru the labyrinth seal. Thanks buddy
A friend of mine bought a Yamaha 180 twin about 40 years ago. He complained it had no bottom end power. I remember seeing bubbles coming out of the crankcase between the cylinders.
Wow, that is not good, was it from the labyrinth seals, did they find out?
@@montana2strokeracer I think he returned it to the seller and got his money back.
talk about a cliff hanger, cant wait to see this tool do its thing.
Patience my friend!
Hi Still loving watching You work. I confess I'm mighty jealous of all Your large machines. Best Wishes Jahmahrah
Thanks for hanging out in the shop with me Jahmahrah. I enjoy building and repair motorcycle related stuff.
Good job brother. Can’t wait to see it in action.
Me too Cain, maybe next week!
Fascinating. Utterly fascinating
Great work Dale , You make very nice Jigs .
Thanks, buddy, it's a very enjoyable part of this process.
Very impressive fabrication work there Dale! Keep it up! Have a great weekend!
Thanks, buddy, it was a fun project, now time to put it to work!
@@montana2strokeracerJust got the TM125 to a roller yesterday. Still waiting on parts for the RM370.
Awesome David, it's nice seeing them go back together. Parts waiting.... not all that fun. LOL
Dale: You should run a school! Thanks again for the effort, another great video which I learned from as I have a couple of YR1 and YR2 cranks and a YDS5 crank as well that may well need care!
Thanks Alex. I think the older cranks are the only ones that are splined, newer RD cranks are press pin.
Good morning Dale, checking in.
Nice to see ya here Don.
if you wanted 2 you could put in 4 push bolts at opsite corners on each side to even out the pressure if needed, but you already know that,, the ol bridgeport comes in real handy, im going 2 try an get one someday, thats what you call a real mechanic when you make a tool 2 do a job, good work as usual dale, your what you call highly skilled personnel LOL. catch-u-on the next one ol buddy...
Hey James, hope all is going well with your project. Yes, it could have been built with two more push bolts, but it really wasn't that hard to separate, I just use a 6-inch ratchet to do it. You said it my friend, the mill and the lathe are as handy as a button on a shirt. I highly recommend the purchase of these fine tools if you can. It is so much fun to do this stuff. They really expand what you can do with your hobby. Thanks for watching buddy.
Hi Dale,
Yamaha told dealers they needed the service kits for the bikes they stocked and sold then made them buy the kits.
Many shops didn't stock or sell some models so never had various special tools, just the common service kit
The Yamaha kits were the most expensive of any from 'The Big Four' but some things you could return to Yamaha for repair or testing which Honda and Suzuki didn't offer as a service to dealers. (I don't know about Kawasaki as I never worked in Kawasaki dealers)
One thing I always liked about the Yamaha twins was they used a wide labyrinth (lab-err-inth) center seal.
You wouldn't believe the problems I've had with Suzuki twin's where crankcase can wear so single rubber seal slides out, contacts flywheel and destroys itself.
I would think you would go to 2.960" first then do each plate individually leaving 45 degree chamfer to match chamfer on flywheel.
To do counter-bore to clear labyrinth seal, mount in a four jaw and face it back, probably easier than setting up a rotary table?
Personally, I always just removed outside flywheel then pressed center section, we never did enough of them to justify special tool even when later RD250/350 was selling real well. Once it was apart it was simple enough to build two singles then press back together.
The XS 650 uses same basic layout but has more space as it doesn't need sealing between cylinders.
Didn't know you were doing a Honda 175, boring for customer? (saw block on bench 😀)
Wow, you definitely know more about it than I do. It has been 45 plus years since I even saw the tool, and really don't remember much about the procedure except that I remembered them being splined. I remember doing one and watching my boss do another one. Well, the tool worked out great the way I fabricated it, and also worked as a press plate, to press the other crank out of the labyrinth seal housing. Thanks for the pronunciation, I probably still can't say it right. I thought about just pressing the outside wheels off and just getting it done but wanted to build the tool for the channel. Seems to have been quite the interest to many. I know very few have the capability to build this tool but most of them really enjoy the building and fabrication I show on my channel. I have noticed an increase in the Machine shop viewers tuning in. They really keep me on my toes. There are many different ways to go about building such a thing, but this is how I elected to do it. Good or bad it got the job done, but I am sure it could be improved on. So, thanks for all the great info, and the video on this disassembly will probably be up this weekend, so keep an eye out for it. Yes, you probably have already seen the boring of the CB175 Honda. If not, it is up now. Just wish I could find more Honda's, just not available in my area for some reason. Seems to be a large following of Honda stuff. Thanks, again for all the super info and your superb understanding and experience, it is invaluable.
@@montana2strokeracer Hi Dale,
I started in Honda dealers (plus MZ, Yamaha and Triumph-Meriden) so consider myself a Honda mechanic even though I actually spent several years more at Suzuki (BMW, Yamaha, Vespa) dealers.
I mainly trained as machinist to put BSA parts into my Royal Enfield's, (plus make 'unobtainium' parts) then, did a few years in factory precision machining.
Hated clocking on and off and when management cut machining times in half I lost interest. (how I got into Honda dealers, they had a small lathe and I modified clutch center to get something back on the road, plus, the head mechanic 'went missing' for three months) Spent way too much time yelling 'valve springs' or 'piston rings' I was forever having to show people correct installation.
The twelve years teaching at MMI Orlando taught me that even experienced people can still learn stuff and beginners can find amazing new ways to break stuff, (including me, who knew teaching was so dangerous?)
Majority of Harley instructors hated me.
"HD only make 3 bikes, Sportster, Big Twin, V-Rod, changing tanks, seats, forks and wheels does not make a new model, it's something I did for fun in early 70's"
Some just couldn't see the joke.
I feel like I should make some video's but it's damn hard work, much easier to chime in with random thoughts and stuff
Looks great! I must admit that I'd probably go for four bolts rather than two, that way there would be a little less strain on the threads.
Thanks, buddy, yeah you could do it, but it really wasn't that hard to separate, I did it with a 6-inch ratchet.
@@montana2strokeracer LOL, well of course I don't know whether two bolts was enough because you left us all on a cliff hanger! Oh well I guess I'll just have to wait until you post up the next video, please hurry up!
Patience my friend, it will be up for the weekend, trying to get two videos ready to upload over the weekend. Sure appreciate you following the channel.
Dale remember the old bar of soap method to quite belts!
Thats a new one on me Frank, I am thinking of just getting a new matched set made by Gates and ditch these Taiwanese belts.
what you have to loose, try a old dried up bar of soap just rub on the sides here and there, it will quiet them down.@@montana2strokeracer
I'll give it a try Frank, thanks for the suggestion.
That tool is a great idea, they don't show that in the newer manuals even as far back as the 80's. I've got a 350 twin to rebuild, and I'm going to make myself the same thing, now that I've seen this. Can't wait to see it in action. Too bad they don't make the 90 twin today. Where do you get the new bearings from, Yamaha, or aftermarket? They last longer because two doing the work sharing the load, is better than one.
Hey John, thanks for the kind words my friend! Not sure of what models are splined, I know some of the later RD engines have press pins instead of splines. I think it is more like the YD, DS, YM. I am chopping at the bit to try it out also. Got some measuring to do before I push it apart. I usually buy aftermarket SKF or KOYO bearings. I usually get the C3 tolerance, but I see on this twin the center bearings call for C4.
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Dale, do you reckon it would be a good idea if you drilled a sallow divot where the bolt tips touch the opposite side of the separator to stop them sliding around. I noticed you where having trouble keeping them in place
Ray, I think your spot on, I would imagine when you start wrenching on them, they will want to walk around. Thanks for the suggestion.
Dale you talk about working on these 40 years ago and the memory is flickering, as for me its been 60 years sense i was involved with a motorcycle dealer. talk about memory fade! LOL
Yes, I know, I am really pressing more like fifty years, 47 or 48 for sure. Lots of stuff seem to escape my brain these days, have trouble talking too. Guess it's just part of it. Definitely the bad part.
@@montana2strokeracer sorry to say its just the start, the golden age isnt what its supposed to be. im always evaluating my progression into this time and not liking what im seeing.LOL
I know buddy, never thought I'd see the day that I couldn't pee. The golden age is for sure twice the fun for half the pay, but all the physical difficulty's suck.
have had the pee issue for several years bad balance all the old guy stuff oh well.@@montana2strokeracer
Well, its reassuring to know I am not the only one. But it just shouldn't be that way.
frank awake!
Did you buy 4140 hardened or was it something soft like 1018? Was your lip angled or a square step? If you are bothered by the thread friction, there is enough room to add some axial bearings on the grade 8 bolts then push against nuts. I want to see the labrynth seal.
Hey Rowland, nothing exotic here, just 6 x 5 x 3/4 flat bar in 1018. the step is square, I really don't think it's needed Rowland, but we will see, the idea is to just clamp it tight, I think. I just can't find a good picture and it's just been too long since I saw one. No, I'm not worried about the friction, I ran a tap through it again and all is fine. Yes again, it's just been too long since I saw the labyrinth seal on this one. I want to say it is a rubber type, but not sure.
What brand of drill bits are you using Dale? Also Taps and Dies...I imagine high speed like from Mcmaster-carr?
I try to use Cleveland bits. Taps and Dies are GTD, Greenfield tap and die, think they are under Wilda these days. Just like USA products for most tooling.
Here
Do you ever take in work?
Yes but not in the summer.
Does anyone know how to contact Dale to see if he can bore and hone my xc500 Husqvarna cylinder ?
You can look at my about page on TH-cam. There you can find my email or anyone else's on their channel. dsweger@bresnan.net
Dale, it is pronounced lab-er-rinth.
I have had several folks give me the pronunciation, thank you, I will probably still get it wrong! LOL