I think you have to be very careful using the word martial arts when talking about the medieval or early modern period. You have to be especially careful about linking stick fighting with kerns. This is a massive historical jump (backwards) based on a lack of evidence. After 1603 there were no more kerns and the country was demilitarised. On the other hand, many Gaelic Irish would receive military training in Spain/Spanish Netherlands. By the end of the 17th century, after two many heavy defeats, the Gaelic Irish as such no longer existed (they and the Old English were now simply Catholic Irish). The last Gaelic armies (which would have been armed and training following Spanish precepts) were destroyed in the 1650s. Faction fighting as such in a 19th century phenonmenon (as explicitly stated by Patrick O'Donnell in one of the few studies of it). Indeed, O'Donnell also says that the roots of stick fighting were not ancient. Rather, recruiters for Irish soldiers invented it, as a way of training their recruits who did not know how to fight as Catholic Ireland has been disarmed at the end of the 17th century. Stick fighting is thus not an ancient martial art, but dates from the 19th century or late 18th at the most. Another example of this is the United Irishmen. Thousands drilled, trained, and fought in the 1798 rebellion. How many used sticks? very, very few. The pike (as well as dangerous farm tools) was the weapon of choice - when muskets were not available. Sorry for the negative comment, but I have a bugbear about this. I have seen a lot of videos about stick figthing and seen people claim things that are blatantly non-historical. (Don't get me started about kilts...)
O! Yes, we all agree with you. But given that they are armed with a buckler and sword, for Perry and strike movements. The Kern's had to have had a dueling martial art.
@@IrishMedievalHistory I would call that military training rather than a martial art. The idea of a martial art, separate from military training is relatively new. (I am a stickler for getting words correct). But yes those who went into military service (whether as kern, gallowglass, or other name) must have done some training. In the 1590s some Spanish soldiers helped drill the Gaelic Irish in Ulster, but they would have had their own forms of drill. Unfortunately, while there are drill manuals for Spain, England, Holland, etc, there are none for Ireland. Wouldn't that be a great find...
@@forasfeasa "According to John Clements, the term martial arts itself is derived from an older Latin term meaning "arts of Mars", the Roman god of war, and was used to refer to the combat systems of Europe (European martial arts) as early as the 1550s" If you're saying military drills of formation and fighting in line are the same to combat fighting, it'll make tracking down the martial art of Gung fu very difficult. also, that's conventional Warfare you're talking about, the Buckler and sword which goes all the way back to Viking age Ireland, would have its own separate development in combat fighting.
@@IrishMedievalHistory Interesting. I will look him up. Military drills are not the same as fighting in line. The drills that developed in 16th century Europe with thr military revolution were designed to control men and make sure they would do as they were told (especially not fire too soon if they had firearms) and even more importantly if you were an infantry force not to run away when being charged by horse and to obey commands. They were inspired by Roman drilling (with obvious modifications). I take your point about the phrase martial arts, and admit I know nothing about non-European ones with the exception of capoeira. Nonetheless, I would argue that there was a huge difference between ones that were considered 'noble' (fencing, hunting, even falconry - the latter is not a martial art, but was a very common pursuit of the elite. English officers loved to hunt with Irish birds) and more 'common' forms, such as wrestling. Interesting discussion, thanks!
Thank you for the shout out if anyone ever has questions let me know.
Your more then welcome man!
That's sick! I'll check him out
Awesome. Thanks for the tip. His channel looks great 👍🏼
It is! He does amazing work!
Yeah he`s good mate
His a legend alright.
Very interesting content from you as per usual. Please keep it up 😊
Thank you! Will do!
Good morning, Phillip. I hope you and your wife are well over in Japan xx. Take care ❤
I am! And I hope your doing amazing as well!
Marry me 😂❤
Ya! Rambling Kern is an attractive guy alright!
Proud to be a kern😂
Damn right!
I think you have to be very careful using the word martial arts when talking about the medieval or early modern period. You have to be especially careful about linking stick fighting with kerns. This is a massive historical jump (backwards) based on a lack of evidence. After 1603 there were no more kerns and the country was demilitarised. On the other hand, many Gaelic Irish would receive military training in Spain/Spanish Netherlands. By the end of the 17th century, after two many heavy defeats, the Gaelic Irish as such no longer existed (they and the Old English were now simply Catholic Irish). The last Gaelic armies (which would have been armed and training following Spanish precepts) were destroyed in the 1650s. Faction fighting as such in a 19th century phenonmenon (as explicitly stated by Patrick O'Donnell in one of the few studies of it). Indeed, O'Donnell also says that the roots of stick fighting were not ancient. Rather, recruiters for Irish soldiers invented it, as a way of training their recruits who did not know how to fight as Catholic Ireland has been disarmed at the end of the 17th century. Stick fighting is thus not an ancient martial art, but dates from the 19th century or late 18th at the most. Another example of this is the United Irishmen. Thousands drilled, trained, and fought in the 1798 rebellion. How many used sticks? very, very few. The pike (as well as dangerous farm tools) was the weapon of choice - when muskets were not available. Sorry for the negative comment, but I have a bugbear about this. I have seen a lot of videos about stick figthing and seen people claim things that are blatantly non-historical. (Don't get me started about kilts...)
O! Yes, we all agree with you. But given that they are armed with a buckler and sword, for Perry and strike movements. The Kern's had to have had a dueling martial art.
@@IrishMedievalHistory I would call that military training rather than a martial art. The idea of a martial art, separate from military training is relatively new. (I am a stickler for getting words correct). But yes those who went into military service (whether as kern, gallowglass, or other name) must have done some training. In the 1590s some Spanish soldiers helped drill the Gaelic Irish in Ulster, but they would have had their own forms of drill. Unfortunately, while there are drill manuals for Spain, England, Holland, etc, there are none for Ireland. Wouldn't that be a great find...
@@forasfeasa "According to John Clements, the term martial arts itself is derived from an older Latin term meaning "arts of Mars", the Roman god of war, and was used to refer to the combat systems of Europe (European martial arts) as early as the 1550s" If you're saying military drills of formation and fighting in line are the same to combat fighting, it'll make tracking down the martial art of Gung fu very difficult. also, that's conventional Warfare you're talking about, the Buckler and sword which goes all the way back to Viking age Ireland, would have its own separate development in combat fighting.
@@IrishMedievalHistory Interesting. I will look him up. Military drills are not the same as fighting in line. The drills that developed in 16th century Europe with thr military revolution were designed to control men and make sure they would do as they were told (especially not fire too soon if they had firearms) and even more importantly if you were an infantry force not to run away when being charged by horse and to obey commands. They were inspired by Roman drilling (with obvious modifications). I take your point about the phrase martial arts, and admit I know nothing about non-European ones with the exception of capoeira. Nonetheless, I would argue that there was a huge difference between ones that were considered 'noble' (fencing, hunting, even falconry - the latter is not a martial art, but was a very common pursuit of the elite. English officers loved to hunt with Irish birds) and more 'common' forms, such as wrestling. Interesting discussion, thanks!