As me and Zoe are practically the same person (she’s just the cooler version of me) we managed to accidentally make similar videos at the same time. Hers is awesome so go check it out: th-cam.com/video/12PZ-7VzxkA/w-d-xo.html
Who? Zoe who? You are the best. I was wondering when you were going to look at this conspiracy... Mandela Effect next? How about the A.I. thing I suggested? :) Happy you got your 10K.
@Arizona person Yeah, your silly little comment was reposted on a video that JustWasted3HoursHere uploaded, it's called "Flat Earth Truth!: Is Bob Knodel an Honest Person?", someone named "Derp Jesus" reposted your comment in a comment thread that he started and JustWaste3HoursHere responded to it, have fun.
It's the Lovecraft reaction: they're afraid of the vast, blind, uncaring universe, and want to retreat to a smaller one, just a few thousand miles across, shut in with an ice wall and a glass dome.
NelC Indeed you do often see comments on flat earth videos about denial at being an insignificant speck in a vast universe. And of course many simply fear what they don't understand no matter how simple that may be, it's easy to understand what you just make up yourself.
Marco Cappelli There is a bit in a book titled "And Another Thing" where Cthulhu is applying for a job as the god of a small planet. He doesn't get it though because he's not a proper god but just a Great Old One even though he has gold cards for Asgard and Olympus.
"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." -H.P. Lovecraft
Stewie griffen : germ theory can also be said to be " just a theory " also Soooooo whats your point ? is that some indication our understanding of infectious disease is false or something ? ?
We shouldn't make the assumption that the ground we stand on is round because the objects we see above are heads are round. Just people following indoctrinated and narrow thought, having always reference to the false spinning globe model and being mislead in thinking that they disproved the model they don't understand. The multi-generational brainwashing, indoctrination, propaganda, pseudoscience, state approved “resistance” and “rebellion”, and peer pressure has been, and still is today, so strong and embedded so deep into our psyche that the vast majority of us don’t know, nor ever will know, what it is exactly that we don’t know. They say the earth is spinning. If you fly from LA over the north pole to China, a twelve hour flight, by the time you get to the direction you were going the US would be there. Draw a picture of the globe model as if looking down at the north pole. Draw a line from LA over the NP to China, directly over the north pole. Realize that in 12 hrs. China will have spun to the point where the US was 12hrs before.
In the whole history of mankind, this is without doubt the most stupid paragraph ever written, Have you not seen the photos taken by ESA, NASA, the Russia Space Agency of the spherical earth we live on?
+Twisted Chains But you can't answer any one of these, can you: 12:30 There is plenty of stuff we can all see (whether through a telescope or the naked eye) that proves globe. We can all see this first hand (from the real world, not from TH-cam): 1) Moon and sun size. 2) Moon and sun shape. 3) Moon and sun do not appear to "vanish" about 10 degrees above the horizon (as with FE geometry). 4) Venus is only seen near the sun but Mars and all planets beyond are seen anywhere in relation to the sun. 5) Venus phases. 6) Venus size. 7) Jupiter's moons changing positions. 8) Saturn's rings changing shape. 9) Sharp sea horizon viewed from a high cliff. 10) Some distant islands can't be seen from sea level and can be from a high cliff. 11) Over 99% of the time ships slip behind the horizon and less than 1% of the time they "don't". 12) The smallest wavetops viewed through a low telescope are completely detailed against a background of sky or land. 13) You can see the Southern Cross circle the SCP watched in stages overnight. Over a dozen things we can all see with our own eyes that proves globe and flat earthers only have their flat horizon and their ships staying on the horizon 1% of the time and they have nothing else (when it comes to seeing stuff for ourselves). If a germ was on an exercise ball, would the germ see any curvature? And for ships going down over 99% of the time, isn't that to my advantage (by 99%)? lol I am talking about an unbiased interpretation of evidence in the real world that we can all see. Show less REPLY
You know the funniest thing about flat earthers is the fact that they CONSTANTLY bicker and clash on their models and their physics and measurements and proofs and calculations, when those who can truly prove the earth is round with their evidence with pictures, accurate measurements and videos, they ALL agree on their findings and not one goes against it. Flat Earth = Flat Mind. Thanks Rachel Oates! :)
Tim Webb You are the Flat Earth dufus coming to a TH-cam video trying to debunk it... And can't... Your mom obviously stood up and cheered at your graduation ceremony from the nut house 😆
*HOW TO PROVE WITH YOUR EYES THAT THE EARTH IS ROUND* 1: Go to a beach at sunset 2: Lie down facing the ocean 3: Wait until the sun completely goes below the horizon and at the moment the sun disapears stand up = you will se the sun hasn't completely gone below the horizon when you are standing still meaning: the earth has to be round in order for you to see the sun go below the horizon 2 times , while lieing down and when stunding up . And it has to be on an ocean to avoid bumps from mountains and hills and rocks , so you can be sure that in front of you there should be a straight line. *if the earth was flat* : when you would stand up the sun would still be under the horizon , which is not true . At summer time try this experiment' it's cool , educational, + romantic ;) ...
PaintItBlack Heisenberg they should go to Dubai to the Burj Khalifa and see that at the top, the sun "sets" almost 5 minutes after it "sets" in on the ground view. The other thing is to tell them to do that on an island, wait 'till mourning and see come out from the other side.
If the Earth was flat the Sun would never go below the horizon in the first place. Simple math proves the Earth is not flat, they just want to believe what they want to believe.
Guys, every of them will show you than Sun is cover by waves, just this few front of you nose. Simple geometry. You can find big lake but guess what - waves again. So save yourself ridicule.
I used to be a conspiracy theorist and most of it had to do with making my life seem more interesting, like believing I had some spiritual powers and what not. Or believing in a one world government that we must uncover and expose to save humanity. It empowers you. It makes you feel special. It's essentially a form of roleplaying where you're genuinely convinced about your character.
Many years ago, I was part of an informal club, mostly made up of engineers, scientists, educators.... people with significant exposure to the scientific method. We dubbed ourselves "the flat earth society of (city)". We'd meet a couple of times per month and debate whether the earth was flat or a sphere (with flattened top). We'd find out which side we were on after we got there. I, like everyone there, can argue it either way. We stopped our club when we had people who asked to join who, to our amazement, SERIOUSLY believed the earth was flat! We were just having fun. No doubt, some of the flat earthers are still people like us who are having fun with thoughts. Some seem to take it as a very literal reading of the Bible, Talmud, or Koran that says the earth has 4 corners and stands on pillars. Others really and truly are so paranoid of everything they've ever been taught by the "establishment" is wrong. That includes them rejecting the scientific method, hence you get more dangerous conspiracists - e.g., anti-vaxers, anti-evolutionists, and those who are convinced that nuclear bombs are a hoax, as God would not let humans destroy his creation. The danger of flat earth thought is this: If they get too close to the edge, they can fall off! This would be an eternity of falling forever! (I actually have run into this belief by some fundamentalist Christians.) Belief in a globe-earth offers protection from that hazard in that it's kind of a collective act of faith. Because you believe the earth is a globe, you will subconsciously avoid the edge, and thus will never be in danger of falling off the earth. You don't believe you can fall off the earth, so you don't - kind of like a Wiley Coyote cartoon.
Thanks SpektralJo :) I was under the impression they believed that. I've heard it from more than one flat Earth video on TH-cam (sometimes I just need a good laugh).
The earth is special. God's personal zoo and lab where he makes animals do all sorts of crazy stuff and then punishes them for behaving exactly as he predicted they would. The earth has "flat privilege" while all the other planets are "spheroidally oppressed".
The thing about conspiracy theories are that they are not all equal. There are conspiracy theories that turned out to be true. Not defending conspiracy theories. Just saying. Some are more out there than others.
Rabblexthree With most conspiracy theories it is difficult to prove beyond doubt they are not true, even if certain aspects can be disproved. Flat earth however, is easy to disprove, that's the odd thing about it, it does require the rejection of very basic evidence and observations.
Flat Earth with own sun and moon is more simple and more logic.UN flag have a flat earth map logo without Antarctica? Because they know that truth only Globtards dreaming ball earth Lol. As we see Star constelations never changed they are all same for thousands years in same place till today impossibility in satanic heliocentric model with Earth ball.
Turbo Opcija So let me get this straight, you think the Earth is flat because in your mind it is simpler and more 'logical' despite the fact that not one observation complies with the Earth being flat and there are a great many facts about the Earth which completely rule out such a nonsensical idea? The UN logo portrays the Earth as an azimuthal equidistant projection because it is a convenient way to show all the countries on the Earth and leaves out Antarctica because that continent has no indigenous population and therefore no government to be represented at the UN. Star systems have changed since the first star maps.
Different than your usual style, but very good and informative! This was really interesting to learn about. That said, I've seen at least a few Flat Earthers who believe for supernatural/religious reasons.
ExJw FlatEarther - I watched your stupid video (at 2x speed so as not to waste more time than necessary). I am still not a Flat Earther. th-cam.com/play/PLmWeueTF8l82GItQhl7vTP_WM43B4ebNq.html
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+ExJw FlatEarther that video was very stupid and the person who made the video is either a troll or very delusional and ignorant
I agree with your point about "outsider physicists". I have long believed that the same phenomena has helped the rise of religious fundamentalism. Most people felt as though they could understand Newtonian concepts reasonably well, but ever since Einstein that has changed and they no longer feel confident that science is answering their questions.
Thank god, someone is finally talking about the psychology behind flat-earthers, as opposed to other TH-camrs who feel the need to debunk them in great detail - which is just insulting to their audience. Like, wow, thanks for explaining to me that the Earth is round, Mr. TH-camr.
These flat earthers need to explain, then, why it is necessary to have 24 time zones across the world and what makes a day 24 hours long. Since the earth is a globe and rotating on its axis, the idea of it being flat is absurd.
Astrid Sreen. Actually, I'm a non-drinker and a non-smoker. I don't do drugs and I'm vegan. So you see, as with the name calling, you're making incorrect assumptions about me. I'm, however, glad you're still angry because that guarantees that I'll continue to have with you. Does the analogy of "fish in a barrel" mean anything to you? I may be vegan but I'm preparing for a metaphorical fish feed.
I've only exchanged comments with one person who turned out to be a Flat Earther. He was clearly intelligent, articulate, well spoken and held down a job which afforded a fairly nice house in the South of England and a nice car. He marshalled complex if illogical arguments to produce videos for his TH-cam channel. The impression I got was that he was not going to concede any ground on literal biblicism. Having concluded the Bible said the Earth was a round disc with dome firmament (think of a snow globe paperweight) he went to great lengths to defend that position. If the Earth was flat, scientists have been lying, the moon landings were a hoax, photos aren't real, government agencies are maintaining this 'globe lie' because they are controlled by Satan. That gels with similar notions in his mind about the evident reality of a young Earth. He was also into deciphering the apocalypses of Daniel and Revelation and other Bible prophecy. He concluded the end was nigh and that again, governments knew this. Such a scale of cover-up re the shape and age of the earth and how close to the end we were must necessitate shady organisations working in the background. So he got on board with Bilderberg, Masonic, Templar and Rothschild conspiracies. If the governments knew the end was nigh and major political turbulence was on the way FEMA conspiracies, and population control measure conspiracies made sense too. Attacking his ideas raised suspicions that I was some government stooge out to thwart his TH-cam activism and served to buttress his delusions. There is a bizarre internal logic to the whole edifice. I saw a recorded TH-cam live chat the other day where a 'globalist' was allowed to try to explain how we could measure the distance to distant objects using basic trigonometry without having to physically go there. The comments down the side of the feed were just weird, of the 'he's trying to lie to us using maths' sort. This is Sin rule FFS. Even if the audience hadn't understood it, I'm sure they wouldn't have concluded this simple and ancient maths was conspiracy talk if it had been applied to something as mundane as the ancients calculating the distance to the other side of a river they wanted to build a bridge across. Apply it to their pet conspiracy and the hackles come up. I'd be fascinated to see Eric Dubay in proper debate. One of the points you raised, that delusions cease to be categorised as such once they are widely shared brings up the role of the internet in sharing this information and bringing together a community of delusionists who would previously have remained isolated. I picked up on this when I first encountered a 'victim' of gang stalking (the idea held by some paranoid individuals that the government has an army of people whose job it is to stalk the victims, making sure the victim knows their every move is monitored to create a sense of unease). Now gang stalkers can get together and reaffirm one another's delusion via the internet.
If the world was both old and flat, the cats would have pawed everything off the edge by now. Either the Earth is young, or it is a spheriod, or both. :)
Lee Taylor: Thank you. I had never heard that term before, but in looking it up, it seems to be almost exactly what my girlfriend thinks she goes through. Only she blames it all on Obama/Satan.
@@user-rx2ur5el9p No, she tjinls Obama still controls the country via a shadow government and is planning on conquering Isreal and declaring himself Messiah. And I've since broken up with her.
I love this explanation! It makes me sense like this. On a much smaller scale, I have autism and struggle with abstract thought and things I can't observe myself. Though I believe the world is round, the more scared I feel the less I tend to be able to believe things I can't know first hand. In my everyday life this tends to be more around social interactions but I think it's a similar concept. When I feel generally safe, I have the space in my head to practise abstract thought and believe things I didn't personally experience but when I'm scared I get overwhelmed and can't. I think when Flat Earthers believe the earth is flat that's okay and everyone telling them they're wrong or stupid will probably only make their worry or isolation worse but I think it's an issue when they preach it as a fact or have kids (because if they tell their kids, they're probably going to believe it because their parents told them. I'm 20 and am still coming across fairly basic 'facts' I was taught wrong.)
Whatever lady. I have better things to do with my time than talk to a Trump supporter. You people are some the lowest human beings on earth, so good luck with that.
I talked with a flat-earther, he believed in flat-earth because he was a biblical inerrantist christian (he also believed in the firmament). I listened to him, and I saw that he had a problem with secondhand evidence. So I described Eratosthenes's experiment and described how he could replicate it and get firsthand proof of reality. He ignored everything I said and just kept repeating his demand that I give him photos of space things that he could then claim were photoshopped. He claimed that all parties in the conversation were operating solely on faith, because we haven't seen the firmament or space for ourselves.
oh yeah... biblical inerrantism. Something no sane person can uphold as serious belief after getting to Genesis chapter 2. The idea we could HAVE a world (or even just "water" which requires oxygen) before countless galaxies and zillions of stars in them existed to breed hydrogen (and small trace amounts of helium and sodium) is (astro)physically a laughable concept. The scale of it all then gives the idea the ultimate deathknell... who would create a 90 billion lightyear bubble of "stuff" out of whatever it was that existed before the "first word" was spoken? If the universe WERE less than 6000 lightyears in radius and would practically contain nothing useful or marvelous beyond the orbit of Pluto, this might be an acceptable explanation... but a universe full of other suns and planets and galaxies, and one that is larger than the speck we can see? Also: why do they pretend god created everything there was when the bible clearly claims he arrived when there was already "water"?
WBWhiting Eratosthenes if he ever existed was a delusional madman who could not see that sunshine radiates and does not fall parallel like rain does. He and anyone who believes this fish story of his are not really gonna be equipment to talk seriously on any practical measurements are they? Calling themselves scientists is laughable. Thanks for mentioning it. Lol. Anyone taking the bible literally is gonna have the same problems.
Eratosthenes, over 2,000 years ago, was able to roughly calculate the circumference of the globe with a fair amount of accuracy. He was able to prove that the earth was spherical in a way that a flat-earther could personally replicate and not need to rely on secondhand evidence from other people. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eratosthenes Trakmatik, I thought that you might know about Eratosthenes, since you talked about sunlight radiating or being parallel. But then you followed it up with 'fish story', so now I have no idea if you know what you are talking about or not. Eratosthenes did not have scientific instruments or perfect assumptions, so his measurements were only able to get him to a close to right answer on the size of the globe.
I really liked your vid. You have compassion for them and I do not. I lost my girlfriend 10 moths ago to flat earth because I just couldn't be with someone who believes in: flat earth, chemtrails, illuminati, 911, moon landing, etc..etc. She believed in all of them. I really miss her, but I still can't see being with someone who was that deranged. Maybe she'll meet someone at one of those conferences and they'll live happily ever after in their ignorance. It does hurt people though. I have been hurt by these conspiracies. I really, at one time, thought she was the one.
My sister and I were discussing this around the holidays when you released this video. Among the many discussions about this topic I feel the "Why would you think that?" question often tunnels directly into a "my evidence vs. your evidence" rabbit hole, but doesn't look at the mindset behind the denial. That's the lynchpin to changing any mind, however, so I feel it's quite important. I appreciated this video for that reason, and, months later, I stumbled across a philosopher asking the same question from the perspective of his field. I urge you to consider giving it a few minutes of your time. (source: Philosophy Tube) th-cam.com/video/AGvGQSazaTM/w-d-xo.html.
In my experience, flat earthers. often also suffer from the Dunning-Kruger effect. Basically, it means they are below average intelligence people who can't accept that they are not smart so they latch onto the idea that they know something about the world that most people don't. This makes them feel smart compared to everyone else. I've done research on the topic as it applies to flat earthers and it's really quite interesting. But it's also a bit sad to see them try to make sense of the world and then failing in very basic ways.
@@cediviannareeda4305 People tend to overestimate their own intelligence. However, the smartest and most educated tend to be the first to admit how little we actually know about reality. Meanwhile, the least educated often boast that they "know what's really going on". Outliers aside, are you saying you haven't seen this for yourself? Having spent my early adult years split between 6 years of college and working in pool halls and bowling allies, I certainly have Dunning-Kruger in action many times.
@@tungstentaco495 I'm a little disappointed that you'd take on an argument from personal experience on a video about the flat earth. www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/experimentations/202004/the-dunning-kruger-effect-may-be-statistical-illusion Of course, the more you know, the more you realise you don't know, but almost everyone sees themselves as knowing more than their peers
@@cediviannareeda4305 well, your initial comment didn't supply the means for engaging in an argument aside from simply being a contrarian. So I responded in kind with a personal anecdote that supports the Dunning Kruger hypotheses. Since that was the frame work of the discussion, I also asked you if you have observed anything significant that goes against the Dunning Kruger effect out of curiosity. This isn't a debate yet, but we can make it one if you would like.
@@tungstentaco495 your personal experience doesn't discount the possibility of statistical illusion even if it is accurate. And no, I haven't seen the DK effect in the wild
The question of what to do with people who believe in conspiracies, especially of the magnitude of flat earthers should really boil down to how dangerous are their beliefs. Unfortunately once you begin to deny one part of science the rest is soon to follow. After that the question comes, is this going to spread out and cause widespread self inflicted ignorance. Once those answers have been established you get to the morally grey part. I personally believe proper education is the way to combat it rather than censoring of any kind.
THEY Heretics, in the past, were imprisoned or put to death not because they were wrong but because they challenged the existing power structure. These days we resort to ridicule, accusations of unpatriotism or insanity, and social ostrafication. FE 'ers are wrong but they hardly represent a threat to honest, well-meaning people.
+John Jasper Flat earthers are not only wrong, they are also far from being the threath creationists, (especially dominionists), is..... Especially in the US!
+GorillaGuerilla: "Flat earthers are not only wrong, they are also far from being the threath [sic] creationists, (especially dominionists), is.....Especially in the US!" That's right we creationists are a threat to the atheistic mythology of Big Bang to man Evolution. Because unlike flat-Earthers we have the truth on our as well as God. Your biggest nightmare is a well-informed creationist that knows your theories better than you do. For example, whenever I hear of new discovery, I try to find the original paper. Lacking that actual pictures or a good description will usually suffice. In any case, the actual evidence is never as pro-Big Bang to man Evolution as it is reported to be, in fact, sometimes it's actually a joke. The funny thing is the Big Bang to man Evolution crowd has way more money, being able to outspend us by several orders of magnitude. They have a virtual monopoly in public schools and on TV and yet despite the big advantage we are still a threat. The fact is that if the atheistic mythology of Big Bang to man Evolution had to compete on an equal footing with Young Earth Creation, it wouldn't stand a chance.
Totally agreed! Especially the part where she examines why people believe in conspiracy theories. Is it too much to ask if we want to have more videos like this examining why people believe in unscientific ideas? Especially on the non-binary genders thing that people believe, and a comparison with transpeople and not-heterosexuals?
An interesting theory Rachel and your attention on the mechanics of belief in the objectively absurd misses a very important point that is often overlooked. That point being it's about being special. For a vast majority of people they are brought up by their parents to believe that they are special and extremely important. So important that they are offered a reality that seems to revolve around them and their needs. When anything happens that contradicts this model, they become uncomfortable and this makes them feel bad. No one likes feeling bad, so they try to change reality itself to stop this unpleasant experience. Now when you're an adult and you have been brought up believing that not only are you special but humanity itself is, as is the case with religious doctrine, especially Abrahamic ones, then you find people will objectively deny reality. They are in fact in favour of supporting the belief that humanity is so special that the universe owes its existence to humans. Without us, there would be no galaxies, no nebulae, no stars, no planets, no moons, no asteroids, no sea, no land etc. Flat Earth fits into this model very neatly as it makes it so the world we are on is different to everything else. The planets and the stars are all demonstrably spheres, but the earth is different, it's special! Why is this so? It's because it was made for us just as the universe as a whole was made for us. The reality is quite different; the universe is utterly indifferent to the existence of humanity. To demonstrate this you need only take a look at the timeline from the change of state of the universe, when time began, which was 13.5 billions years ago to now. We know that the earth is 4.5 billions of years old, which means it coalesced 9 billion years after the universe changed state. Think about that for a second; 9 billion years is twice the duration the earth and the star it orbits has existed. Now adding to the fact that humanity did not begin to exist until another 4.4998 billion years after the earth was formed, if humanity was contingent on the universe existing, it took a very long time time for us to arrive. This makes people feel uncomfortable as it means ultimately, humanity does not matter. Ultimately everything we do is meaningless and, knowing the how the universe works, it will not change from the time we did not exist, which was for 9 billion years. But we matter to each other and that's what keeps me going. I'm not a nihilist, despite my recognition of the fact that yes, ultimately humanity does not matter. I genuinely revel in experiencing reality and make sure I do everything I can to enhance other people's enjoyment of it. Sometimes I get it wrong, we all do, but I do everything I can to learn from these missteps by remembering that all we have is each other. So while many are uncomfortable with the idea that a tree can fall in a forest and still make a sound while no human is there to hear it, I'm OK with that. I'm more than OK actually, I think it's awesome.
wrong, as you can see by insanity is sanity's comment, "a pretty face but not much else.. you think you know but you dont kiddo"....... nevermind, he's a dumbass. nice work, you've done more research than I've cared to. video makes learning so much easier :-)
+Joel Harris the earth could be round and flat earth is to mislead the conspiracies to say in the end there is no conspiracies because you see the earth is round or even the oppisite i am study mind control, hidden messages in regular films and cartoons(Disney), haarp weather control, war, 9/11, bank system frauds,alien control and many more. i to this at home with people who are doing the same thing what i do without TH-cam because than i know what is real or not, no need for TH-cam for that, you don't have to believe all of this, but i Always asked one question to people and thats what conspiracy theorist ask themselfs the most do you think war is jutified, and not based on lies thats one simple question.
+Tamara bullshit dude absolute bullshit, than you have to forbidden all the music and mucicians who write songs about this (conspiracies) about war,violents and more so then all the mucicians are nuts to then lmao what a joke you are.
I agree with you. I think another important factors are science illiteracy and religious people. I believe flat earthers don't do well at math and physics. Need to do a census of flat earthers math and physics score when they were in school. I'm curious. And as you know, religious people tend not to get along with science. In this case is about the shape of the earth in scripture. Combine these two factors, you certainly produce flat earthers.
Eight inches times the mileage squared. That´s right. Eight inches times the mileage squared, gives you the curvature of the earth. Come on sing along!
Are there really people (in 2017) who still think the earth is flat ? Never met one. But it wouldn't surprise me since half of America literally believes in taking snakes, a guy who lived in a big fish, & Noah's magic ark.
Tim Webb For whatever it's worth (probably nothing), I don't believe in the existence of Satan anymore than I believe in God or Jesus. Just another fictional character ouf of the same primitive book of horse shit.
Tim Webb You do realise that you basically just called everyone who do realize that a). The earth is not flat and b). Most of the old testament is to be read as allegory, for being "satanists"...!? I happen to live in a country where most people know and understand these facts - including most of the Christians! My own family is Christian, my grandfather is a priest, my uncle is a priest, (I was expected to become a priest), my aunt is a theologian, an uncle is a deacon at a church and his wife works for the church full time as well, a uncle got his degrees as a social worker and as a pedagogue through a school for deacons/deaconees, my own mother and another aunt is educated as deaconees, respectively as a nurse and as a social worker. So you're telling me they are all "secretly" satanists??? For understanding basic facts, such as, evolution is real, the earth is not flat - AND the OT is NOT to be taken literary....!!!
I've been wondering the same, the past few weeks I've been watching videos on it, there is a whole part of the great debate community dedicated to these videos, since quite a few of them are generally religious and also conspiracy theorists. People like Reds Rhetoric, Shawn Hufford, Sly Sparkane and many others spend alot of time debating and debunking flat earthers :) Fundamentally there has to be something in their brain that plays a part of it, they basically all claim that ALL NASA footage is fake, that videos and photos from people trying to debunk their claims are fake, they refuse to do known experiments that show a globe because "they know it will show a globe", and funny enough, despite their "search for truth" and accusations of fake stuff, they have a tendency to fake alot of their stuff and also lie about locations they shoot video and pictures from, to try and prove that there is no globe.
these is the top religions which are the most illogical ones top 5 delusions of all time 5 - men are the same as women, but one is called men the other women 4 - life evolved, but life cant even exist w/o being complete from th start like bible teach 3 - people r born as homo, but male has sperm for female ovary + body is heterosexual 2 - God doesnt exist, but how can u deny aka function w/o being intelligently created? 1 - earth is billion of yrs old, but hist is young, c-14 in diamond oil, no much sediment..
I see Wizard's First Rule, I upvote. Best book series that I know! You should cite it a bit further though, mainly in this context: People are stupid, they will believe something because they WANT to believe it, not because it's true. -The quote might be a bit off, because I only have a translation and can't be bothered to look it up, but that's the essence...
Indeed. I only didn't put the full quote because quite frankly I just don't see how it can apply. Why would someone 'want' the earth to be flat or be afraid that it's flat? Nah, they're just stupid. But yes, tons of awesome quotes in that series applicable to making fun of wilfully ignorant people. lol.
From my limited research of flat-earthers, I'd suggest the trigger for their belief is a distrust of NASA. After all, not all moon landing deniers are flat-earthers, but all flat-earthers also seem to be moon landing deniers.
Love this video! I've recently been obsessed with watching flat earth videos and videos making fun of them, just trying to figure out WHY? This was very different from the other videos and very informative. Thank you!
HELENO HENZO , just because you hold faith in that notion doesn't make it true. So why don't you just provide good evidence for that far fetched notion of yours, please ?
when faith is needed know sphere requires intent? top 5 delusions of all time 5 - men are the same as women, but one is called men the other women 4 - life evolved, but life cant even exist w/o being complete from th start like bible teach 3 - people r born as homo, but male has sperm for female ovary + body is heterosexual 2 - God doesnt exist, but how can u deny aka function w/o being intelligently created? 1 - earth is billion of yrs old, but hist is young, c-14 in diamond oil, no much sediment..
What you described happening in "American Conspiracy Theory" sounds like t "tiger in t grass" phenomenon where we have evolved to believe whatever is occurring that has startled us has intentions directed towards us rather than being just random events.
This was mind-blowing. I mean, I like most of your material but this was just so eye opening for me. You totally deserve 10k. I didn't see you tweet about that directly but I saw Alex J. O'Conner congratulate you on it.
Many of the flat earth video makers, are tying the flat earth theory to the creation of the heavens and the earth according to Genesis chapter 1. I does sort of fit.
Thr myth that the Bible teaches a flat-Earth was started by Washington Irving in a book entitled The Life and Voyages of Christopher Columbus. answersingenesis.org/astronomy/earth/who-invented-the-flat-earth/
Both you and Zoe are staring right smack dab into the heart of the black abyss...from which there is no return. You've been warned. (Cue ominous 30 second long exit music)
She just had a video out same time as you "Why Do People Believe In Conspiracy Theories?!?"....but I watched yours first. (But I am telling her that I watched hers first...because I'm marginally more afraid of her than I am of you).
+Chaosism I have it on record when RO started out her innocence to this all...and I told her in a year she is going see things that she can never unsee that will shake her to her very core. Give it another year and she will be living in a wife beater she hasn't washed in months, drinking her meals from a straw while 20 cats swarm around her waiting for her to die so they can dine on her flesh. Watch...mark my words.
+Zoe Does Life "Oi, i'm not scary! " Then what are you in jail for? They do not give "life" sentences for stealing candy... (At least not if you don't live in Connecticut...) Do you have your three tears tatoo already? Also... you seriously misspelled "you'd better be" there...
Rachel thanks for providing the psycho/social perspective on this. I hadn't heard those explanations. While I've absolute knowledge from persona experience the earth is a spheroid, I felt that many FE types were experiencing something. But obviously their explanation of a Flat Earth was wrong. These sources help to understand what's going on. The absolute proof of a round planet is in celestial navigation. You need spherical trig to plot a course and/or position because you have to use the arc segment of a great circle ON A Round Planet. You need trig to work the angles off your fixes in the sky. If the earth was flat and you used this you would get lost and probably die. If you use plane geometry you will get lost and probably die. I'm a certified navigator. I've sailed from San Francisco and from Seattle to Honolulu and to Tokyo. I hope to CIRCUMnavigate the Earth some day. Sure I used GPS too - which our FE people need to explain since they don't believe in satellites - and it's pretty darn hard to put transmitters out in every part of the oceans. But don't believe me. Ask airline crew, commercial fishermen or cargo ship officers. Ask the companies that run these craft. Ask the navigator/bombardier who's flow any of the worlds strategic bombers. Better yet - Flat earthers should put their money where their mouth is, get a boat and cross any ocean of their choice using plane geometry. I guarantee we'll get no takers.
James I guess you make a pretty good point. That's really a sad state of affairs. It means you can't even structure it as testable predictions that are generated out of two different theories. This would be a nearly perfect example of how science is done with math and logic, no deep pockets or esoteric instruments or years of education. But maybe we could get a few of them to take the bet publicly? If nothing else we'd have a few fewer of them under foot and a few FE fans might get the result.
ExJw That url doesn't work. I think it's not complete. Why don't you just summarize the argument for us? But I will tell you up front that I'm skeptical as hell about "No one who has seen" claims. That's a HUGE red flag right there. It's got several fallacies embedded and we haven't even looked at the clip yet.
Thanks for that. I watched the first 15 minutes. It is a very nicely produced presentation, aside from the very painful, totally untrained speaking of the presenter. That was almost as cringe-worthy as some of the computer generated clips on TH-cam. But it can be ignore because at least it is clear and understandable. I will assume the clip lays out the commonly accepted FE positions. It is nice to have them bundled up. But it is not an argument. And I'm surprised anyone could be convinced. Rather, it is an assembly of random observations and speculation, assertion usually with no evidence, and no documentation of testing. There are huge gaps in physics, astronomy, geology and climate (for starters) that are needed to have an actual theory. So I see this as laying out the most common experiences and observations attributed to a flat earth. But this is exactly the error that I point out initially. The descriptions of perceptions may be legitimate, but the attribution of them to a flat earth is necessarily wrong. I'm using "necessary" in the logical sense, because the attribution of a flat earth explanation is inconsistent with one well established, fundamental fact. This fact is not dependent on perception and special pleading, on lack of data. _The actual, documented, universally experienced fact is that you need spherical trig to navigate using the sun, stars and planets. Plane geometry does not work._ It follows that the earth must be spherical. This is not just academic theory. There are thousands and thousands of people alive now, who have staked their lives on this. Businesses stake their profits on this. It has been happening every day since at least the early 18th century. This is not esoteric knowledge. There is no conspiracy involved. Anyone can test this on their own at little to no cost. You can interview airline crew or ship watch standing officers. You can learn navigation, go out and give it a try. You can try to find one of them willing to take you along and do it with plane geometry. I await hearing from any FE proponent who actually puts their beliefs on the line. But ironically, if they do - we're likely to never hear from them again.
Eight inches times the mileage squared. That´s right! Eight inches times the mileage squared, gives you the curvature of the earth. Come on Sing along!
"I'm not going to look at their evidence, let's look at some unconscious stuff instead." I don't suppose you know where the term "conspiracy theorist" comes from, do you?
Definitely see this in regards to quantum mechanics and whether it effects free will as well as the the big expansion (bang) and what nothing means in that circumstance. I do think we should try to convince flat earthers because as you've said most conspiracy theorists will believe in other conspiracies and there is a good chance that one of them will be harmful.
12:30 But there is plenty of stuff we can all see (whether through a telescope or the naked eye) that proves globe. We can all see this first hand (from the real world, not from TH-cam): 1) Moon and sun size. 2) Moon and sun shape. 3) Moon and sun do not appear to "vanish" about 10 degrees above the horizon (as with FE geometry). 4) Venus is only seen near the sun but Mars and all planets beyond are seen anywhere in relation to the sun. 5) Venus phases. 6) Venus size. 7) Jupiter's moons changing positions. 8) Saturn's rings changing shape. 9) Sharp sea horizon viewed from a high cliff. 10) Some distant islands can't be seen from sea level and can be from a high cliff. 11) Over 99% of the time ships slip behind the horizon and less than 1% of the time they "don't". 12) The smallest wavetops viewed through a low telescope are completely detailed against a background of sky or land. 13) You can see the Southern Cross circle the SCP watched in stages overnight. Over a dozen things we can all see with our own eyes that proves globe and flat earthers only have their flat horizon and their ships staying on the horizon 1% of the time and they have nothing else (when it comes to seeing stuff for ourselves). If a germ was on an exercise ball, would the germ see any curvature? And for ships going down over 99% of the time, isn't that to my advantage (by 99%)? lol I am talking about an unbiased interpretation of evidence in the real world that we can all see.
Like all my comments, this'll be longish and wordyish. Warned. Good work Rachel, this is the first video in a while in the youtube anti-flat earth genre I've seen cover something new: The individuality of each believer. When you brought up that they couldn't understand and so needed to find out for themselves "in their own way," an old thought resurfaced. I know couple of flat earthers who are extremely intelligent, almost genius, but undereducated because school was simply too hard for them in weird ways you wouldn't expect from smart kids. It failed to teach them things they needed to learn in the ways they needed to learn them, leaving a knowledge gap (no matter how small, a gap) between point A, their current comprehension of physics, trigonometry, etc. (The tools needed to know why it looks flat, why we know it isn't, and how you can check easily and regularly that it hasn't become flat), and point B, the comprehension needed to see a flat horizon and realize it shouldn't actually curve downward, to enately understand how perspective works in everyday life, and to accept how small we actually are as humans, given that people tend to, in a sense, expand to fill their lives and forget how big the world or the universe is. And point B.1, the factual, historical knowledge to understand that we first started building scientific instruments as a direct consequence of having observed everything that our senses could from our accessible surroundings, yet having learned just enough to know that there's more to know. These points are often lost on even the smartest flat earthers who talk with me about it. Same thing with subjects like the Large Hadron Collider. Friend of mine with a 10th grade education, very smart, very observant, actually knew little enough and assumed enough (filling gaps with bullshit) to speak the sentence "those fucking idiot scientists at CERN are going to make a black hole and destroy the planet." It blew me away how anyone as intelligent as him could foster a thought that CERN would in a million years, have idiots colliding particles at almost relativistic speed, or they'd even consider increasing its magnetic power to 7x original capabilities if they hadn't already predicted exactly what would happen the first time they switched on they LHC, and been exactly right. Fun fact for anyone still reading, the amount of physical energy released upon collision with the new system will be similar to that of a few mosquito wings flapping a single time each, instead of just one mosquito as before. Not scary, unless you'd never looked closely enough to hear that figure, which I learned from an interview with a CERN scientist. Wasn't even researching the subject at the time, that's how easy it is, you can accidentally learn some boring piece of reality that puts things into boring perspective. But the fact that we don't personally, directly manage the physicists there doing their jobs, for some of us is proof enough that they don't know what they're doing and would happily make a mistake that could actually potentially destroy the world, if that was even a scientific possibility of smashing single atomic or subatomic particles into each other. Now as you said, you can apply this suspicion system reaction to any organization with trade secrets or whom people simply don't bother checking into before setting some strong personal notions, then going researching with a confirmation bias. And viola, a conspiracy theory is born. From everything I've gathered, which is not everything, these are just holes left in no small part by schools not being able to afford to give a shit about any one kid during our most intellectually critical learning phase. And by that issue's interplay with some kids having just needed a little different approach. Not special ed, I just mean individualized, comprehension- based rather than test results- based education. While the shoe may fit some just fine, public education's been around for a long time and we still have flat earthers, so it's clearly not one-size-fits-all. I think the belief is potentially harmful in some ways, because as Steve (RR) puts it, beliefs inform actions... Heh. I take a special interest in hardcore conspiracy believers, because I feel like they're a symptom of something somewhat analogous to a sickness. Not individual sickness, but a sickness of the collective intelligence of the human species. I'm a subscriber to the gene-centered evolution idea (but NOT a eugenicist, let me be clear), so I feel any significant number of people (they had their first international convention recently) believing wholeheartedly in something stupid that isn't even their childhood religion (don't even get me started on the independent learning skills taught there), is something we need to figure out the cause of, and remedy. If not by helping current flat earthers, then by helping our teachers and parents figure out how not to leave those knowledge gaps. Living in an information age makes it a whole new battle, when all of human knowledge, and all its bad ideas, are in our damn pockets. Either way I honestly believe it's in all our best interests to admit there's a problem somewhere, not necessarily at the symptom site, determine what to fix, and how. Without making anyone feel like we think they're a disease, is the trick. The outphasing of flat earthers from more informed circles I see today probably happened in a similar manner during their school years for many of them, and it certainly couldn't have helped the problems caused by schools. But I do think we should engage with them more and question what they're saying or how they're sorting through their thoughts, if not just to dissuade the hypothesis because it's annoying or whatever, then to help them as friends, colleagues, family, etc. to learn to routinely practice truly rational thought and to accurately learn the things they are trying to learn, while they're still doing so. That's based on my belief that it was a lack of attention which caused its widespread success in the first place for so many, but most of my experiences locally have confirmed this being the case when I got around to asking politely how school was for them. So I honestly think we need to take action in the sense that they need our help, not our opposition, even if it's in the form of some healthy debate opposition where we fucking know we've got them, to a laughable point, all that'll happen if it's not opposed healthily is they'll continue being ridiculed for wanting to learn from a starting point of how it looks, until their hypothesis also includes something like "no one will EVER convince me now. Screw everyone who thinks they're so smart with their science." And a few points made in your video certainly reinforced that thought. I have so many thoughts, I've followed this way too closely, but I'll stop it there, my answer/comment is put as simply as I can do. Thanks for making this!
I used to think the Earth was flat for about a whole year, but what really helped me realize it wasn't true was the amount of special pleading I had to do for it to make sense with what I saw move in the sky, and the only aspect I didn't need special pleading for was that I didn't feel any motion of the Earth but I knew that would make a difference anyway. So, since the heliocentric model fits every single prediction for the sky and the ground I ended up thinking the world was a ball again.
I had been questioning my belief in God the same time mostly because I felt blackmailed buy the entire system but felt as though it could be a bluff and sense every time I prayed it didn't work I kind of ended up being more of a deist for a little bit because I didn't have any explanation of what we, and other animals, originated from. I had been a Christian creationist because that's what I was told was true for my entire life up to that point. I decided to just simply see if there is any evidence for evolution in the first place, and if it wasn't obvious at first I wasn't going to give it any more time, but luckily the very first few things I saw (stated clearly's "evidence for evolution") was so obvious that I realized that I hardly even knew what evidence was in comparison to how much there was for evolution. After that since I then had an explanation for our Origins I wasn't really a deist anymore now I can call myself an atheist because I don't really believe in that stuff anymore.
Daniel Etter Hi. Creationists and flat earthers are not common among christians at all. You only find them among some american post-protestantist chapels. They are ignorant of the History of the Church.
Do you know why it's so easy to get away with committing conspiratorial actions? Because the same people who commit the biggest ones have also taught you what and how to think since you've been born. You've been immersed in deceit your whole life and think it's all truth.
You aren't undermining their argument that we experience a flat plane by making Ad Hominems fronted by psychology. Where is the working scale model of the Heliocentric model? Where is the horizontal curvature? Where is the vacuum chamber that has no walls? Where is the questioning of the globe? Your point isn't worth a damn because it doesn't challenge any arguments, it sidesteps them by simply pulling a false psychology card. Science is soooo valid when it goes along with the official 9/11 story.
If there is no curvature, why can't you see Tokyo from a high enough mountaintop? How do you explain ships disappearing over the horizon? Where does the sun go at night? What does the government gain from hiding mundane bullshit like this? Maybe if you used your time to learn a thing or two about science instead of larping about the ebil gubbamint people would take you more seriously.
You need to think for yourself and have the testicular fortitude to realize your are responsible for what you know, not authority figures. Dust, moisture, and atmospheric effects limit how far you can see. Ships can disappear and you can see them again by zooming in. ~ perspective The sun can be a lot smaller and a lot more local than what you are told. The heliocentric model shapes your core beliefs and axioms and your perception of what we have available to us, it also represents finite resources and control because people are then conditioned to believe that we are evil and that we need equally evil people to rule us and manage what we have. You can be told to pay carbon taxes and you take it without question. Science is not science if you are referring to the celebrities you see on TV. That is just a system of beliefs from authority that you do not challenge out of fear. If it truly were science, there would be rewards for people who disprove theories, it would be encouraged to try and disprove accepted theories rather than just going with confirmation bias. NASA footage isn't real life. Also, no gov't today has your interests at heart, its purpose is not to unite people to allow them to collectively work together to better their standards of living. Look at how countries are so eager to go to war before diplomacy while their citizens can barely get by and tell me I'm wrong. 9/11 is a blatant example of this.
Can you test the speed of light yourself experimentally without making any assumptions to get the numbers for your math? can you prove that the celestial bodies are actual objects? Can you show me horizontal curvature? I've tried to find it but I can't. Can you show me an experiment that used gravity to keep air from rushing into a vacuum chamber that's been opened? When you see the ISS you aren't seeing a twig with solar panels sticking off of it, you are just seeing yet another light in the sky. Can you show me real footage of the planes that allegedly hit the twin towers that isn't composited? Can you show me how a building can violate the laws of physics when it accelerates to near free fall speed without slowing down as it destroys four times its mass in healthy structure? Can you explain to me why there was no deep investigation into WTC 6, why the whole center of it was destroyed all the way to the basement?
I'd argue that your method of testing the speed of light is flawed because you'd be conducting the experiment in a medium which slows it down. The dogcam footage you showed me isn't enough because I've seen other videos of footage like it without curvature at a higher altitude. Even then you can't see half the curvature at half the altitude. You've implied that you cannot conduct a small scale experiment showing a vacuum adjacent to an atmosphere. I don't see why someone couldn't get a ferromagnetic gas and a sphere magnet in a vacuum chamber and make sure the magnet pulls at 9.8m/s^2. You are right, I do know crap. Nobody has ever proved that the origin of those lights in the sky are physical objects, we've only ever observed them with 1 of our 5 senses from the same angle; looking up. No space agency is trustworthy. No government funded body is trustworthy. Even then, it is illogical to appeal to any authority. We really do know nothing, just look at newearth's channel. Academic institutions ignore the sites and artifacts Sylvie shows you on her channel.
Great video! There is probably also a social aspect to these conspiracy theories, right? They form communities of people who agree on a fringe idea that puts them against the rest of the world. This probably doesn't explain why people get into those beliefs initially, but it probably explains in part why it's so difficult to convince them once they are already believers. You aren't just trying to convince them to change their minds, but also to essentially leave a lot of their friends behind, like betraying them. No doubt this must have some impact.
Eight inches times the mileage squared. That´s right! Eight inches times the mileage squared, gives you the curvature of the earth. Come on Sing along!
I like your choice of Background. The intro to each episode should be you running your fingers across the books, then pulling one out related to the topic you're going to discuss > then the show starts and you discuss a new topic. X
Take any ball big enough to try this... get some toy figures like little army men... get some legos and build several little towers... get several hot wheels cars... Now glue or fix them anywhere in the proper direction (meaning down towards the center of the ball to represent " *gravity* ") covering all the surface of the ball... And tell me what do you see. _That is a representation of your spherical earth with people, buildings and vehicles throughout the earth._ Oh wait! what!!!! *No matter how you turn that ball, someone or something somewhere is upside down in relation to any given point 180 degrees from one another.* Now, you very well know that no one is upside down, right? *What does this simple logical explanation reveal to you?* Everyone is so caught up with scientific explanations that are to blind or brainwashed to see the simplicity of this. Science may continue to fool others, but Alonso Zapata is not fooled by science. Have a great one everybody
The point you explain about insecurity and physics being so complicated is great. I am sometimes uncomfortable about how I'll never learn or understand all the super abstract math and science.
The "research" that flat Earthers do is to watch three or four hours of lunatic fringe videos, then consider themselves experts. Of course it helps that so many of them are fundamentalists.
I watch this show Adam Ruins Everything on TruTV (now it's an adult cartoon version), and in one episode he talked about conspiracy theories and why people believe them, but he never talked about flat earth matters, which would've gone deeper but would've probably made the episode a two-parter. So I really appreciate this video.
Excellent. Even as I am rather late to the party, the "outsider physics" explanation also tracks with my, admittedly limited, exposure to people making these arguments. One also shouldn't underestimate the value of using a way of understanding the Universe that is both simpler and largely immune to any sort of outside or complex methodology: i.e. actual Science is hard to understand, versus de minimus Bronze Age cosmology. As to whether this tendency is dangerous or not (your last argument in the video), my guess would be dependent on numbers: thousands of youtubers who are horizontally challenged might not matter that much. Millions on the other hand, embracing yet another, in this case especially virulent anti-Science agenda, well, I can't see the upside. Again, great video. You have another subscriber.
It's fine to want to test for your self, but when they ignore tests that show the curve, and chuck it off to goverments faking data and what not, and so far flat earthers that I interacted with were like that. So I think it might be a different reason.
Okay, I once flew on the Concorde back in 98. Before takeoff, I observed the outside very carefully to detect if the window distorted the view. I saw no distortion, everything looked their appropriate shape or proportions. When we reached cruising altitude of ~11 miles / 17 km, from my window, I saw the curvature of the earth with my own eyes, and the sky was a darker shade of blue. Again, I checked prior to takeoff and the windows were NOT distorting anything.
1918: "In the future, we'll colonize Mars" 2018: "The flat Earth community has members all around the globe!" 2118: "Hey son, remember when flat Earth was a thing? Natural selection wiped them off"
The idea touched on in the book you mentioned is very similar to the idea behind Post-modern Anthropology. Especially in the way that Post-modernist believe that facts are a cultural construct, and no one of these "facts" are more or less true than the others because each culture is different and exists on its own.
On a flat earth a trip around the world at the 60th parallel south would be a helluva longer flight than 60th north. Round earthers don't have that problem. Also, if you just know the earth is hollow, you'll be alright.
I guess the mean one for me was when I realized that the Stars revolve around Polaris. If you take a time-lapse video of Polaris you will see the stars spinning around it. Now when you think about the heliocentric model. The Earth is spinning a thousand miles an hour. The Earth is also orbiting the Sun while the sun is traveling in a Street Direction pulling the Galaxy with it. If you take into account all these different movements in the heliocentric model and compare it to what we observe in the natural world it does not add up. If I was on the earth that the heliocentric model suggests the star patterns would never be the same. We would have different constellations popping up all the time instead of the spinning around Polaris that we see.
Other than ignorance, I think the main reason Flat-Earth becomes so attractive of a concept, is because it's basically _infalsifiable_ using non-advanced observation, and using only primitive tools, like looking around and looking at objects seeing how they move. When someone doesn't see a curvature the way a spaceship does, doesn't see celestial movement the way Hubble does, and doesn't need to think about physics like an astrophysicist, they can easily create their own "accurate" model of reality, that describes all the basic things, in a plausible (in their mindset) explanation, that doesn't require the supernatural. Like a down-to-earth, practical thought, that doesn't need to take into account anything else other people claim, especially when that person is disconnected/dissociated with the things that produce the actual advanced, real-world, highly-accurate observations. Like a farmer, that only needs to know about what is "good" and "bad" to his crops, and doesn't need to care about anything else. From then on, when somebody builds a fringe belief like this, they become a minority in their peers. That means that once they find someone else that believes in the Flat Earth, _they will be more likely to accept ideas from them, even if they don't fit exactly in their own model._ So, when a flat earther, goes into the internet looking for answers, there's only one small pocket, that feels the same way, so they embrace that community and their ideas, almost unconditionally. So, this is a kind of positive-feedback bias, and I think you can see that pretty much everywhere, not just conspiracies. Even ideas that circulate in modern feminism, mgtow, alt-right, etc. are held afloat directly because of that. And, _even further,_ once you're in a certain community, you're more likely to accept certain ideas, strictly because of the groups "Suggestibility Bias". What that means is, when somebody communicates to you a certain idea, your brain stops looking for alternatives, and works mostly with that idea that was suggested. Even if you try to think of something new, your brain snaps back to that idea, like a song that's stuck in your head, and you're unable to remember of other songs. That's also part of how religions survive, and why promoting kids from young age to religion is _indoctrination._
I find that flat earthers have actually made me think more on how things actually work for a globe earth, so that i now have more or better understanding of a globe earth, its helped me understand flat earthers arguments and helped me understand how they are wrong and how a globe earth works.
First video I see of you, thank you for speaking and properly using sources, referencing them and all. Good job~ I'm struggling with the same questions regarding my own stance regarding those well... Science deniers. I do differ in that I believe many are harmful to society by promoting ignorance, not skepticism or curiosity, which can influence certain sphere of society negatively by instilling fear of 'them', "whoever hides da truth", if you see what I mean
Plenty of flatearthers do not want to learn and explore the world. They are just stubborn people who are unable to receive new information. I'm holding a discussion with one of them. When I asked him about why gravity differs around the Earth, he called me an idiot and failed to answer.
Just watched the part where you talk about zetetic. It's funny to think that in French (I am French), the word "zététique" has a definition quite close to the definition of skepticism. Have a nice day, Amélia.
Flat earth is a very interesting pathology. I agree they are fairly harmless but if there are a lot of them it is a problem. It's also a problem if they are teaching their and other children this. The interesting thing is they are willing to ignore many thousands of people that have dedicated their lives to science (Physicists, astronomers, geologists, etc) and organizations (NOAA, NASA, AAS, PASP, CDC, etc) in favor of a small number of largely discredited individuals with fringe ideas (Eric Dollard, Santos Bonacci) and internet sites that make money from selling these ideas. The flat earth ideas seem easy on the surface but are not rooted in the physical world and do not allow the production of a physics etc. that produces the technology of the world we live in. The simple answer is not always the correct one.
It's a challenging exercise to do the math of flatworld. I imagine the physics must be even more exciting, but I'm no physicist. I'm kinda glad flat-earthers exist (though I didn't know there were as many as you claim). For math geeks like me, "what if?" questions are a really good opportunity for us to put our brains to work. I don't really want to expunge flat-earthers from the globe, I'm content just to say "Aah, bless!"
My dad, not a conspiracy nut and a very well reasoned guy, has some interesting theories about Shakespeare. He thinks that many of Shakespeare's plays were written by Christopher Marlow while in hiding in Italy. My dad thinks that everyone has one conspiracy theory they believe and I've learned from experience that I think that's true.
I would rather have an accurate view of reality, even if that view may have unpleasant consequences, such as never again seeing my mother (who passed away on October 2016). I feel that being honest with yourself is more important that being comfortable.
I love your stuff, R., and I like to think that I'm a fairly rational person. But I think we have to avoid making a religion out of science. The text shown starting around 1:30 says "scientifically founded principles of nature", making it sound as if nature derives from science, when in fact science is simply a method for trying to understand nature. The fact is that most true scientists will agree that what we "understand" scientifically is the merest fraction of a fraction of actual reality. Nor do I believe that so-called "supernatural" belief and practices, like spirituality and religion (some religions, anyway) are necessarily irrational. There are worse ways to react to the state of the world than prayer or ritual. I think we need to promote a more holistic model that makes room for both science and spirit.
As you yourself pointed out, if you believe in one conspiracy theory, you are more likely to believe in others as well. So in my mind, we shouldn't let them be, or having fallen down that rabbit hole, they're more likely to fall down the next one that comes along. Though I don't have much to support this suggested way of treating the conspiracy theory phenomenon that I think is on the rise due to social media filter bubbles.
The other thing is if they believe in what they see, take them to the ocean on a clear day where there are shipping lanes. Let them watch the ships gradually disappear over the horizon, and ask them why this is happening, are they sinking beneath the water when they disappear in the distance? Uh uh uh, idk.....
As me and Zoe are practically the same person (she’s just the cooler version of me) we managed to accidentally make similar videos at the same time. Hers is awesome so go check it out: th-cam.com/video/12PZ-7VzxkA/w-d-xo.html
Who? Zoe who? You are the best. I was wondering when you were going to look at this conspiracy... Mandela Effect next? How about the A.I. thing I suggested? :) Happy you got your 10K.
zoe from zoe does life
You do know a lot of flat earthers are just trolling...right?
i like to think that all flat earthers are just trolling
I looked at this video after Zoes video. they where next to echother.
There are flat-earthers all around the globe.
This may be the best pun I've ever heard.
@Arizona person Yeah, your silly little comment was reposted on a video that JustWasted3HoursHere uploaded, it's called "Flat Earth Truth!: Is Bob Knodel an Honest Person?", someone named "Derp Jesus" reposted your comment in a comment thread that he started and JustWaste3HoursHere responded to it, have fun.
No not in Asia.
If the earth was actually flat cats would have pushed everything off it by now.
tglu87 An excellent point!
tru dat
tglu87 mine probably would have
I can't hear this silly joke anymore ...
flap-jack fact!
It's the Lovecraft reaction: they're afraid of the vast, blind, uncaring universe, and want to retreat to a smaller one, just a few thousand miles across, shut in with an ice wall and a glass dome.
NelC
Indeed you do often see comments on flat earth videos about denial at being an insignificant speck in a vast universe.
And of course many simply fear what they don't understand no matter how simple that may be, it's easy to understand what you just make up yourself.
Cthulhu Fang! Cthulhu Fang!....I want to read more Lovecraft now. I think the last one I read was "The color out of space".
Marco Cappelli
There is a bit in a book titled "And Another Thing" where Cthulhu is applying for a job as the god of a small planet. He doesn't get it though because he's not a proper god but just a Great Old One even though he has gold cards for Asgard and Olympus.
That sounds...messed up...or non-euclidean. I have to read it and lose some sanity! Seriously, I checked a little on it.
"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age."
-H.P. Lovecraft
In some flat earthers, there actually IS fear. I have seen flat earthers claim that if the earth was a globe, we would fall off of it.
Hory shet!
Well, then it would be nice to explain gravity to them, wouldn't it?
gravity is just a theory ;)
Stewie griffin well, if they don't believe in gravity, there is a simple way to prove it that only needs a tree and a rope...
Stewie griffen : germ theory can also be said to be " just a theory " also Soooooo whats your point ? is that some indication our understanding of infectious disease is false or something ? ?
Seeking out literature is not collecting evidence.
Why would the earth be flat if the moon , the other planets and their moons are all spheres? Do flat earthers have friends all over the globe?
We shouldn't make the assumption that the ground we stand on is round because the objects we see above are heads are round. Just people following indoctrinated and narrow thought, having always reference to the false spinning globe model and being mislead in thinking that they disproved the model they don't understand. The multi-generational brainwashing, indoctrination, propaganda, pseudoscience, state approved “resistance” and “rebellion”, and peer pressure has been, and still is today, so strong and embedded so deep into our psyche that the vast majority of us don’t know, nor ever will know, what it is exactly that we don’t know. They say the earth is spinning. If you fly from LA over the north pole to China, a twelve hour flight, by the time you get to the direction you were going the US would be there. Draw a picture of the globe model as if looking down at the north pole. Draw a line from LA over the NP to China, directly over the north pole. Realize that in 12 hrs. China will have spun to the point where the US was 12hrs before.
In the whole history of mankind, this is without doubt the most stupid paragraph ever written, Have you not seen the photos taken by ESA, NASA, the Russia Space Agency of the spherical earth we live on?
They are all *composites* ; *fabricated* for one reason and one reason only, to keep people believing that the earth is a *sphere* .
+Twisted Chains But you can't answer any one of these, can you:
12:30 There is plenty of stuff we can all see (whether through a telescope or the naked eye) that proves globe. We can all see this first hand (from the real world, not from TH-cam):
1) Moon and sun size.
2) Moon and sun shape.
3) Moon and sun do not appear to "vanish" about 10 degrees above the horizon (as with FE geometry).
4) Venus is only seen near the sun but Mars and all planets beyond are seen anywhere in relation to the sun.
5) Venus phases.
6) Venus size.
7) Jupiter's moons changing positions.
8) Saturn's rings changing shape.
9) Sharp sea horizon viewed from a high cliff.
10) Some distant islands can't be seen from sea level and can be from a high cliff.
11) Over 99% of the time ships slip behind the horizon and less than 1% of the time they "don't".
12) The smallest wavetops viewed through a low telescope are completely detailed against a background of sky or land.
13) You can see the Southern Cross circle the SCP watched in stages overnight.
Over a dozen things we can all see with our own eyes that proves globe and flat earthers only have their flat horizon and their ships staying on the horizon 1% of the time and they have nothing else (when it comes to seeing stuff for ourselves). If a germ was on an exercise ball, would the germ see any curvature? And for ships going down over 99% of the time, isn't that to my advantage (by 99%)? lol I am talking about an unbiased interpretation of evidence in the real world that we can all see.
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REPLY
Well said
You know the funniest thing about flat earthers is the fact that they CONSTANTLY bicker and clash on their models and their physics and measurements and proofs and calculations, when those who can truly prove the earth is round with their evidence with pictures, accurate measurements and videos, they ALL agree on their findings and not one goes against it. Flat Earth = Flat Mind. Thanks Rachel Oates! :)
Tim Webb Hmm flat Earth troll?
Tim Webb You are the Flat Earth dufus coming to a TH-cam video trying to debunk it... And can't... Your mom obviously stood up and cheered at your graduation ceremony from the nut house 😆
*HOW TO PROVE WITH YOUR EYES THAT THE EARTH IS ROUND*
1: Go to a beach at sunset
2: Lie down facing the ocean
3: Wait until the sun completely goes below the horizon and at the moment the sun disapears stand up
= you will se the sun hasn't completely gone below the horizon when you are standing still
meaning: the earth has to be round in order for you to see the sun go below the horizon 2 times , while lieing down and when stunding up . And it has to be on an ocean to avoid bumps from mountains and hills and rocks , so you can be sure that in front of you there should be a straight line.
*if the earth was flat* : when you would stand up the sun would still be under the horizon , which is not true .
At summer time try this experiment' it's cool , educational, + romantic ;) ...
PaintItBlack Heisenberg they should go to Dubai to the Burj Khalifa and see that at the top, the sun "sets" almost 5 minutes after it "sets" in on the ground view. The other thing is to tell them to do that on an island, wait 'till mourning and see come out from the other side.
Nice i didn't know the island one ! Thanks !
If the Earth was flat the Sun would never go below the horizon in the first place.
Simple math proves the Earth is not flat, they just want to believe what they want to believe.
I guess they are kidna like Science Rebels ... they don't agree with science but are curious about the world.
Guys, every of them will show you than Sun is cover by waves, just this few front of you nose. Simple geometry. You can find big lake but guess what - waves again. So save yourself ridicule.
I used to be a conspiracy theorist and most of it had to do with making my life seem more interesting, like believing I had some spiritual powers and what not. Or believing in a one world government that we must uncover and expose to save humanity. It empowers you. It makes you feel special. It's essentially a form of roleplaying where you're genuinely convinced about your character.
Many years ago, I was part of an informal club, mostly made up of engineers, scientists, educators.... people with significant exposure to the scientific method. We dubbed ourselves "the flat earth society of (city)". We'd meet a couple of times per month and debate whether the earth was flat or a sphere (with flattened top). We'd find out which side we were on after we got there. I, like everyone there, can argue it either way.
We stopped our club when we had people who asked to join who, to our amazement, SERIOUSLY believed the earth was flat! We were just having fun.
No doubt, some of the flat earthers are still people like us who are having fun with thoughts. Some seem to take it as a very literal reading of the Bible, Talmud, or Koran that says the earth has 4 corners and stands on pillars. Others really and truly are so paranoid of everything they've ever been taught by the "establishment" is wrong. That includes them rejecting the scientific method, hence you get more dangerous conspiracists - e.g., anti-vaxers, anti-evolutionists, and those who are convinced that nuclear bombs are a hoax, as God would not let humans destroy his creation.
The danger of flat earth thought is this: If they get too close to the edge, they can fall off! This would be an eternity of falling forever! (I actually have run into this belief by some fundamentalist Christians.) Belief in a globe-earth offers protection from that hazard in that it's kind of a collective act of faith. Because you believe the earth is a globe, you will subconsciously avoid the edge, and thus will never be in danger of falling off the earth. You don't believe you can fall off the earth, so you don't - kind of like a Wiley Coyote cartoon.
It's crazy how Flat-Earthers believe the other planets are spheroid, but Earth is not. Seems pretty arbitrary.
Actually most of them dont.
Thanks SpektralJo :) I was under the impression they believed that. I've heard it from more than one flat Earth video on TH-cam (sometimes I just need a good laugh).
HEΛRTS OF SPΛCE some of them deny planets.
I know!!! XD - - - - -> =(
The earth is special. God's personal zoo and lab where he makes animals do all sorts of crazy stuff and then punishes them for behaving exactly as he predicted they would. The earth has "flat privilege" while all the other planets are "spheroidally oppressed".
The thing about conspiracy theories are that they are not all equal. There are conspiracy theories that turned out to be true. Not defending conspiracy theories. Just saying. Some are more out there than others.
it would be stupid to deny that
Rabblexthree
With most conspiracy theories it is difficult to prove beyond doubt they are not true, even if certain aspects can be disproved. Flat earth however, is easy to disprove, that's the odd thing about it, it does require the rejection of very basic evidence and observations.
Flat Earth with own sun and moon is more simple and more logic.UN flag have a flat earth map logo without Antarctica? Because they know that truth only Globtards dreaming ball earth Lol.
As we see Star constelations never changed they are all same for thousands years in same place till today impossibility in satanic heliocentric model with Earth ball.
Turbo Opcija
So let me get this straight, you think the Earth is flat because in your mind it is simpler and more 'logical' despite the fact that not one observation complies with the Earth being flat and there are a great many facts about the Earth which completely rule out such a nonsensical idea?
The UN logo portrays the Earth as an azimuthal equidistant projection because it is a convenient way to show all the countries on the Earth and leaves out Antarctica because that continent has no indigenous population and therefore no government to be represented at the UN.
Star systems have changed since the first star maps.
Obviously.
Different than your usual style, but very good and informative! This was really interesting to learn about. That said, I've seen at least a few Flat Earthers who believe for supernatural/religious reasons.
No one has seen this video and not become a flat earther. Try it urself: /watch?v=k0xClWgidZU&t=1s
ExJw FlatEarther - I watched your stupid video (at 2x speed so as not to waste more time than necessary). I am still not a Flat Earther. th-cam.com/play/PLmWeueTF8l82GItQhl7vTP_WM43B4ebNq.html
+ExJw FlatEarther that video was very stupid and the person who made the video is either a troll or very delusional and ignorant
Thats the whole point, to actually watch it. You responded 5 minutes after and its 43 minutes.
Incorrect. I watched the whole thing at 2x speed. I responded ~25 minutes after you posted your comment.
I agree with your point about "outsider physicists". I have long believed that the same phenomena has helped the rise of religious fundamentalism. Most people felt as though they could understand Newtonian concepts reasonably well, but ever since Einstein that has changed and they no longer feel confident that science is answering their questions.
If the Earth is flat, and all of the land and oceans is on top, then what's on the bottom???
Some one said elephants on a tortoise's back.
Rock bottom... At least that's what FEers reach when they try to argue...
Hell
Google Kola Ultra Deep. Deepest mandrilled hole. Maybe that answers your queestion and opens up some new one´s regarding your own believe?
I ´m sure you get a thumbs up for that childish rebuttal. Anything of substance too?
Thank god, someone is finally talking about the psychology behind flat-earthers, as opposed to other TH-camrs who feel the need to debunk them in great detail - which is just insulting to their audience. Like, wow, thanks for explaining to me that the Earth is round, Mr. TH-camr.
These flat earthers need to explain, then, why it is necessary to have 24 time zones across the world and what makes a day 24 hours long. Since the earth is a globe and rotating on its axis, the idea of it being flat is absurd.
Try trying to explain the wobble on a flat earth!
+ XGC Scrappy
You want to be a sheep you Wobble believer
Maybe the stars are drunk then.
Are you saying you have seen it wobble?
Maybe you were drunk.
Astrid Sreen. Actually, I'm a non-drinker and a non-smoker. I don't do drugs and I'm vegan. So you see, as with the name calling, you're making incorrect assumptions about me. I'm, however, glad you're still angry because that guarantees that I'll continue to have with you. Does the analogy of "fish in a barrel" mean anything to you? I may be vegan but I'm preparing for a metaphorical fish feed.
I've only exchanged comments with one person who turned out to be a Flat Earther. He was clearly intelligent, articulate, well spoken and held down a job which afforded a fairly nice house in the South of England and a nice car. He marshalled complex if illogical arguments to produce videos for his TH-cam channel.
The impression I got was that he was not going to concede any ground on literal biblicism. Having concluded the Bible said the Earth was a round disc with dome firmament (think of a snow globe paperweight) he went to great lengths to defend that position. If the Earth was flat, scientists have been lying, the moon landings were a hoax, photos aren't real, government agencies are maintaining this 'globe lie' because they are controlled by Satan.
That gels with similar notions in his mind about the evident reality of a young Earth.
He was also into deciphering the apocalypses of Daniel and Revelation and other Bible prophecy. He concluded the end was nigh and that again, governments knew this.
Such a scale of cover-up re the shape and age of the earth and how close to the end we were must necessitate shady organisations working in the background. So he got on board with Bilderberg, Masonic, Templar and Rothschild conspiracies.
If the governments knew the end was nigh and major political turbulence was on the way FEMA conspiracies, and population control measure conspiracies made sense too.
Attacking his ideas raised suspicions that I was some government stooge out to thwart his TH-cam activism and served to buttress his delusions.
There is a bizarre internal logic to the whole edifice.
I saw a recorded TH-cam live chat the other day where a 'globalist' was allowed to try to explain how we could measure the distance to distant objects using basic trigonometry without having to physically go there. The comments down the side of the feed were just weird, of the 'he's trying to lie to us using maths' sort. This is Sin rule FFS. Even if the audience hadn't understood it, I'm sure they wouldn't have concluded this simple and ancient maths was conspiracy talk if it had been applied to something as mundane as the ancients calculating the distance to the other side of a river they wanted to build a bridge across. Apply it to their pet conspiracy and the hackles come up.
I'd be fascinated to see Eric Dubay in proper debate.
One of the points you raised, that delusions cease to be categorised as such once they are widely shared brings up the role of the internet in sharing this information and bringing together a community of delusionists who would previously have remained isolated. I picked up on this when I first encountered a 'victim' of gang stalking (the idea held by some paranoid individuals that the government has an army of people whose job it is to stalk the victims, making sure the victim knows their every move is monitored to create a sense of unease). Now gang stalkers can get together and reaffirm one another's delusion via the internet.
If the world was both old and flat, the cats would have pawed everything off the edge by now. Either the Earth is young, or it is a spheriod, or both. :)
Lee Taylor: Thank you. I had never heard that term before, but in looking it up, it seems to be almost exactly what my girlfriend thinks she goes through. Only she blames it all on Obama/Satan.
@@seannolan9857 Does she think that Trump took over for Obama now?
Also, definitely break up with her. Red flags galore.
That really explains it. It's all about religious fanaticism, at its core.
@@user-rx2ur5el9p No, she tjinls Obama still controls the country via a shadow government and is planning on conquering Isreal and declaring himself Messiah.
And I've since broken up with her.
I love this explanation! It makes me sense like this. On a much smaller scale, I have autism and struggle with abstract thought and things I can't observe myself. Though I believe the world is round, the more scared I feel the less I tend to be able to believe things I can't know first hand. In my everyday life this tends to be more around social interactions but I think it's a similar concept. When I feel generally safe, I have the space in my head to practise abstract thought and believe things I didn't personally experience but when I'm scared I get overwhelmed and can't. I think when Flat Earthers believe the earth is flat that's okay and everyone telling them they're wrong or stupid will probably only make their worry or isolation worse but I think it's an issue when they preach it as a fact or have kids (because if they tell their kids, they're probably going to believe it because their parents told them. I'm 20 and am still coming across fairly basic 'facts' I was taught wrong.)
I can't stand flatearthers. Most are either looking for attention or completely brain dead.
They are the most arrogant people I've ever encountered. It amazes me how they think people who believe the world is round are stupid.
They can be both of those things as well. A lot of brain dead people love attention. Look at Trump lol
Evelyn are you actually defending that stupid manchild? Wow.
Whatever lady. I have better things to do with my time than talk to a Trump supporter. You people are some the lowest human beings on earth, so good luck with that.
Tim Webb the fuck are you talking about? Oh you think the earth is flat, nevermind, you're just a complete idiot.
I talked with a flat-earther, he believed in flat-earth because he was a biblical inerrantist christian (he also believed in the firmament). I listened to him, and I saw that he had a problem with secondhand evidence. So I described Eratosthenes's experiment and described how he could replicate it and get firsthand proof of reality.
He ignored everything I said and just kept repeating his demand that I give him photos of space things that he could then claim were photoshopped. He claimed that all parties in the conversation were operating solely on faith, because we haven't seen the firmament or space for ourselves.
Typical flat earther
oh yeah... biblical inerrantism. Something no sane person can uphold as serious belief after getting to Genesis chapter 2.
The idea we could HAVE a world (or even just "water" which requires oxygen) before countless galaxies and zillions of stars in them existed to breed hydrogen (and small trace amounts of helium and sodium) is (astro)physically a laughable concept. The scale of it all then gives the idea the ultimate deathknell... who would create a 90 billion lightyear bubble of "stuff" out of whatever it was that existed before the "first word" was spoken? If the universe WERE less than 6000 lightyears in radius and would practically contain nothing useful or marvelous beyond the orbit of Pluto, this might be an acceptable explanation... but a universe full of other suns and planets and galaxies, and one that is larger than the speck we can see?
Also: why do they pretend god created everything there was when the bible clearly claims he arrived when there was already "water"?
They claim to only believe first-hand evidence, accept when they don't.
WBWhiting Eratosthenes if he ever existed was a delusional madman who could not see that sunshine radiates and does not fall parallel like rain does. He and anyone who believes this fish story of his are not really gonna be equipment to talk seriously on any practical measurements are they? Calling themselves scientists is laughable. Thanks for mentioning it. Lol. Anyone taking the bible literally is gonna have the same problems.
Eratosthenes, over 2,000 years ago, was able to roughly calculate the circumference of the globe with a fair amount of accuracy. He was able to prove that the earth was spherical in a way that a flat-earther could personally replicate and not need to rely on secondhand evidence from other people. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eratosthenes
Trakmatik, I thought that you might know about Eratosthenes, since you talked about sunlight radiating or being parallel. But then you followed it up with 'fish story', so now I have no idea if you know what you are talking about or not. Eratosthenes did not have scientific instruments or perfect assumptions, so his measurements were only able to get him to a close to right answer on the size of the globe.
I really liked your vid. You have compassion for them and I do not. I lost my girlfriend 10 moths ago to flat earth because I just couldn't be with someone who believes in: flat earth, chemtrails, illuminati, 911, moon landing, etc..etc. She believed in all of them. I really miss her, but I still can't see being with someone who was that deranged. Maybe she'll meet someone at one of those conferences and they'll live happily ever after in their ignorance.
It does hurt people though. I have been hurt by these conspiracies. I really, at one time, thought she was the one.
you mean doesn't believe in the moon landing?
Damn. You made the right choice, though.
I'd say mainly because the world can be full of idiots, sometimes.
big congrats and kudos on the 10k. you deserve it.
My sister and I were discussing this around the holidays when you released this video. Among the many discussions about this topic I feel the "Why would you think that?" question often tunnels directly into a "my evidence vs. your evidence" rabbit hole, but doesn't look at the mindset behind the denial. That's the lynchpin to changing any mind, however, so I feel it's quite important. I appreciated this video for that reason, and, months later, I stumbled across a philosopher asking the same question from the perspective of his field. I urge you to consider giving it a few minutes of your time.
(source: Philosophy Tube) th-cam.com/video/AGvGQSazaTM/w-d-xo.html.
In my experience, flat earthers. often also suffer from the Dunning-Kruger effect. Basically, it means they are below average intelligence people who can't accept that they are not smart so they latch onto the idea that they know something about the world that most people don't. This makes them feel smart compared to everyone else. I've done research on the topic as it applies to flat earthers and it's really quite interesting. But it's also a bit sad to see them try to make sense of the world and then failing in very basic ways.
The Dunning-Kruger effect may be a statistical illusion
@@cediviannareeda4305 People tend to overestimate their own intelligence. However, the smartest and most educated tend to be the first to admit how little we actually know about reality. Meanwhile, the least educated often boast that they "know what's really going on". Outliers aside, are you saying you haven't seen this for yourself? Having spent my early adult years split between 6 years of college and working in pool halls and bowling allies, I certainly have Dunning-Kruger in action many times.
@@tungstentaco495 I'm a little disappointed that you'd take on an argument from personal experience on a video about the flat earth.
www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/experimentations/202004/the-dunning-kruger-effect-may-be-statistical-illusion
Of course, the more you know, the more you realise you don't know, but almost everyone sees themselves as knowing more than their peers
@@cediviannareeda4305 well, your initial comment didn't supply the means for engaging in an argument aside from simply being a contrarian. So I responded in kind with a personal anecdote that supports the Dunning Kruger hypotheses. Since that was the frame work of the discussion, I also asked you if you have observed anything significant that goes against the Dunning Kruger effect out of curiosity. This isn't a debate yet, but we can make it one if you would like.
@@tungstentaco495 your personal experience doesn't discount the possibility of statistical illusion even if it is accurate.
And no, I haven't seen the DK effect in the wild
The question of what to do with people who believe in conspiracies, especially of the magnitude of flat earthers should really boil down to how dangerous are their beliefs. Unfortunately once you begin to deny one part of science the rest is soon to follow. After that the question comes, is this going to spread out and cause widespread self inflicted ignorance. Once those answers have been established you get to the morally grey part. I personally believe proper education is the way to combat it rather than censoring of any kind.
THEY Heretics, in the past, were imprisoned or put to death not because they were wrong but because they challenged the existing power structure. These days we resort to ridicule, accusations of unpatriotism or insanity, and social ostrafication.
FE 'ers are wrong but they hardly represent a threat to honest, well-meaning people.
+John Jasper
Flat earthers are not only wrong, they are also far from being the threath creationists, (especially dominionists), is.....
Especially in the US!
FE is costing society many millions of hours of time, that could have been spend usefully.
+GorillaGuerilla: "Flat earthers are not only wrong, they are also far from being the threath [sic] creationists, (especially dominionists), is.....Especially in the US!"
That's right we creationists are a threat to the atheistic mythology of Big Bang to man Evolution. Because unlike flat-Earthers we have the truth on our as well as God.
Your biggest nightmare is a well-informed creationist that knows your theories better than you do. For example, whenever I hear of new discovery, I try to find the original paper. Lacking that actual pictures or a good description will usually suffice. In any case, the actual evidence is never as pro-Big Bang to man Evolution as it is reported to be, in fact, sometimes it's actually a joke.
The funny thing is the Big Bang to man Evolution crowd has way more money, being able to outspend us by several orders of magnitude. They have a virtual monopoly in public schools and on TV and yet despite the big advantage we are still a threat. The fact is that if the atheistic mythology of Big Bang to man Evolution had to compete on an equal footing with Young Earth Creation, it wouldn't stand a chance.
Rachel this might be the best video you have yet made ! for me at least. Even better than the mall security Robot :p xD
Totally agreed! Especially the part where she examines why people believe in conspiracy theories. Is it too much to ask if we want to have more videos like this examining why people believe in unscientific ideas? Especially on the non-binary genders thing that people believe, and a comparison with transpeople and not-heterosexuals?
That would be interesting too :) !
The phrase Seeing is believing came to my mind while watching this.
An interesting theory Rachel and your attention on the mechanics of belief in the objectively absurd misses a very important point that is often overlooked. That point being it's about being special. For a vast majority of people they are brought up by their parents to believe that they are special and extremely important. So important that they are offered a reality that seems to revolve around them and their needs. When anything happens that contradicts this model, they become uncomfortable and this makes them feel bad. No one likes feeling bad, so they try to change reality itself to stop this unpleasant experience.
Now when you're an adult and you have been brought up believing that not only are you special but humanity itself is, as is the case with religious doctrine, especially Abrahamic ones, then you find people will objectively deny reality. They are in fact in favour of supporting the belief that humanity is so special that the universe owes its existence to humans. Without us, there would be no galaxies, no nebulae, no stars, no planets, no moons, no asteroids, no sea, no land etc.
Flat Earth fits into this model very neatly as it makes it so the world we are on is different to everything else. The planets and the stars are all demonstrably spheres, but the earth is different, it's special! Why is this so? It's because it was made for us just as the universe as a whole was made for us.
The reality is quite different; the universe is utterly indifferent to the existence of humanity. To demonstrate this you need only take a look at the timeline from the change of state of the universe, when time began, which was 13.5 billions years ago to now. We know that the earth is 4.5 billions of years old, which means it coalesced 9 billion years after the universe changed state. Think about that for a second; 9 billion years is twice the duration the earth and the star it orbits has existed. Now adding to the fact that humanity did not begin to exist until another 4.4998 billion years after the earth was formed, if humanity was contingent on the universe existing, it took a very long time time for us to arrive. This makes people feel uncomfortable as it means ultimately, humanity does not matter. Ultimately everything we do is meaningless and, knowing the how the universe works, it will not change from the time we did not exist, which was for 9 billion years.
But we matter to each other and that's what keeps me going. I'm not a nihilist, despite my recognition of the fact that yes, ultimately humanity does not matter. I genuinely revel in experiencing reality and make sure I do everything I can to enhance other people's enjoyment of it. Sometimes I get it wrong, we all do, but I do everything I can to learn from these missteps by remembering that all we have is each other.
So while many are uncomfortable with the idea that a tree can fall in a forest and still make a sound while no human is there to hear it, I'm OK with that. I'm more than OK actually, I think it's awesome.
The psychology behind conspiracy theory beliefs is interesting. Good job on the video!
Tamara Thank you! :D
wrong, as you can see by insanity is sanity's comment, "a pretty face but not much else.. you think you know but you dont kiddo"....... nevermind, he's a dumbass. nice work, you've done more research than I've cared to. video makes learning so much easier :-)
+Joel Harris lmao so wrong man you are so wrong this is what they want you to believe no fact at all.
+Joel Harris the earth could be round and flat earth is to mislead the conspiracies to say in the end there is no conspiracies because you see the earth is round or even the oppisite i am study mind control, hidden messages in regular films and cartoons(Disney), haarp weather control, war, 9/11, bank system frauds,alien control and many more. i to this at home with people who are doing the same thing what i do without TH-cam because than i know what is real or not, no need for TH-cam for that, you don't have to believe all of this, but i Always asked one question to people and thats what conspiracy theorist ask themselfs the most do you think war is jutified, and not based on lies thats one simple question.
+Tamara bullshit dude absolute bullshit, than you have to forbidden all the music and mucicians who write songs about this (conspiracies) about war,violents and more so then all the mucicians are nuts to then lmao what a joke you are.
I agree with you. I think another important factors are science illiteracy and religious people. I believe flat earthers don't do well at math and physics. Need to do a census of flat earthers math and physics score when they were in school. I'm curious. And as you know, religious people tend not to get along with science. In this case is about the shape of the earth in scripture.
Combine these two factors, you certainly produce flat earthers.
Eight inches times the mileage squared.
That´s right.
Eight inches times the mileage squared,
gives you the curvature of the earth.
Come on sing along!
Are there really people (in 2017) who still think the earth is flat ? Never met one. But it wouldn't surprise me since half of America literally believes in taking snakes, a guy who lived in a big fish, & Noah's magic ark.
Yup, and apparently they are growing in numbers!
Tim Webb For whatever it's worth (probably nothing), I don't believe in the existence of Satan anymore than I believe in God or Jesus. Just another fictional character ouf of the same primitive book of horse shit.
Tim Webb
You do realise that you basically just called everyone who do realize that a). The earth is not flat and b). Most of the old testament is to be read as allegory, for being "satanists"...!?
I happen to live in a country where most people know and understand these facts - including most of the Christians!
My own family is Christian, my grandfather is a priest, my uncle is a priest, (I was expected to become a priest), my aunt is a theologian, an uncle is a deacon at a church and his wife works for the church full time as well, a uncle got his degrees as a social worker and as a pedagogue through a school for deacons/deaconees, my own mother and another aunt is educated as deaconees, respectively as a nurse and as a social worker.
So you're telling me they are all "secretly" satanists???
For understanding basic facts, such as, evolution is real, the earth is not flat - AND the OT is NOT to be taken literary....!!!
There's one simple reply to make to a flattie: "Go to the damned EDGE and snap a PICTURE." Not one seems to have ever tried.
you do not need to look that far into flat earth in order to debunk it.
cosmic skeptic said that.
Because the earth is a globe, so unfortunately the flatties haven't fallen off the edge.
I've been wondering the same, the past few weeks I've been watching videos on it, there is a whole part of the great debate community dedicated to these videos, since quite a few of them are generally religious and also conspiracy theorists.
People like Reds Rhetoric, Shawn Hufford, Sly Sparkane and many others spend alot of time debating and debunking flat earthers :)
Fundamentally there has to be something in their brain that plays a part of it, they basically all claim that ALL NASA footage is fake, that videos and photos from people trying to debunk their claims are fake, they refuse to do known experiments that show a globe because "they know it will show a globe", and funny enough, despite their "search for truth" and accusations of fake stuff, they have a tendency to fake alot of their stuff and also lie about locations they shoot video and pictures from, to try and prove that there is no globe.
these is the top religions which are the most illogical ones
top 5 delusions of all time
5 - men are the same as women, but one is called men the other women
4 - life evolved, but life cant even exist w/o being complete from th start like bible teach
3 - people r born as homo, but male has sperm for female ovary + body is heterosexual
2 - God doesnt exist, but how can u deny aka function w/o being intelligently created?
1 - earth is billion of yrs old, but hist is young, c-14 in diamond oil, no much sediment..
Because Wizard's First Rule: 'people are stupid'. lol. Plus, I'm pretty sure most of them are poes. The alternative is too depressing to countenance.
I see Wizard's First Rule, I upvote. Best book series that I know!
You should cite it a bit further though, mainly in this context: People are stupid, they will believe something because they WANT to believe it, not because it's true.
-The quote might be a bit off, because I only have a translation and can't be bothered to look it up, but that's the essence...
Indeed. I only didn't put the full quote because quite frankly I just don't see how it can apply. Why would someone 'want' the earth to be flat or be afraid that it's flat? Nah, they're just stupid. But yes, tons of awesome quotes in that series applicable to making fun of wilfully ignorant people. lol.
Shadow81989 But remember that the Wizard rule only applies to people who disagree with you! 😋
From my limited research of flat-earthers, I'd suggest the trigger for their belief is a distrust of NASA. After all, not all moon landing deniers are flat-earthers, but all flat-earthers also seem to be moon landing deniers.
Love this video! I've recently been obsessed with watching flat earth videos and videos making fun of them, just trying to figure out WHY? This was very different from the other videos and very informative. Thank you!
You, Rachel, are truly a glutton for punishment delving into this topic. ;)
Chaosism fuck the flattards.
I know! Reading a certain someone’s comments already, I’m like ‘what have I done?!’ 😛
Rachel Oates you opened a can of worms rachel. Flatworms of course.
+Steven Baumann
I can certainly see some from the realm of geology being particularly bothered by flat earthers. Really hits home. ;)
Chaosism ha! Oui mon ami
Facts and logic destroys theist nonsense every time
theists? evolutionists are the ones who has no option but to think earth is flat for the fact sphere needs creator, intent...
HELENO HENZO , just because you hold faith in that notion doesn't make it true.
So why don't you just provide good evidence for that far fetched notion of yours, please ?
when faith is needed know sphere requires intent?
top 5 delusions of all time
5 - men are the same as women, but one is called men the other women
4 - life evolved, but life cant even exist w/o being complete from th start like bible teach
3 - people r born as homo, but male has sperm for female ovary + body is heterosexual
2 - God doesnt exist, but how can u deny aka function w/o being intelligently created?
1 - earth is billion of yrs old, but hist is young, c-14 in diamond oil, no much sediment..
HELENO HENZO , I'm not surprised that you chose to not provide a single shred of evidence for your claim.
That's because he is a troll. And the only person to upvote his posts.
What you described happening in "American Conspiracy Theory" sounds like t "tiger in t grass" phenomenon where we have evolved to believe whatever is occurring that has startled us has intentions directed towards us rather than being just random events.
This was mind-blowing. I mean, I like most of your material but this was just so eye opening for me. You totally deserve 10k. I didn't see you tweet about that directly but I saw Alex J. O'Conner congratulate you on it.
Many of the flat earth video makers, are tying the flat earth theory to the creation of the heavens and the earth according to Genesis chapter 1. I does sort of fit.
Nah. I did a quick search. Interesting read. answersingenesis.org/astronomy/the-universe-confirms-the-bible/
Thr myth that the Bible teaches a flat-Earth was started by Washington Irving in a book entitled The Life and Voyages of Christopher Columbus.
answersingenesis.org/astronomy/earth/who-invented-the-flat-earth/
Both you and Zoe are staring right smack dab into the heart of the black abyss...from which there is no return. You've been warned. (Cue ominous 30 second long exit music)
Steve McRae Wait... did Zoe do a flat Earth vid recently? Have I been accidentally copying her again? :p
It's too late for them, now. There's no turning back...
She just had a video out same time as you "Why Do People Believe In Conspiracy Theories?!?"....but I watched yours first. (But I am telling her that I watched hers first...because I'm marginally more afraid of her than I am of you).
+Chaosism I have it on record when RO started out her innocence to this all...and I told her in a year she is going see things that she can never unsee that will shake her to her very core. Give it another year and she will be living in a wife beater she hasn't washed in months, drinking her meals from a straw while 20 cats swarm around her waiting for her to die so they can dine on her flesh. Watch...mark my words.
+Zoe Does Life
"Oi, i'm not scary! "
Then what are you in jail for? They do not give "life" sentences for stealing candy... (At least not if you don't live in Connecticut...) Do you have your three tears tatoo already?
Also... you seriously misspelled "you'd better be" there...
omg, Zoe uploaded a similar(ish) video to this like 5 mins ago..did you plan this haha? So weird...it's a conspiracy
loo lopie Haha we didn’t! We just messaged each other about it though - seems we’re just on the same wavelength ❤️
Look at the lipstick choices of them....guess which one is the evil twin...
Question, how big does a ball have to be in order for it to be flat?
3 rules of truth
1. ridiculed
2. violently opposed
3. accepted as self evident.
keep researching
Rachel thanks for providing the psycho/social perspective on this. I hadn't heard those explanations. While I've absolute knowledge from persona experience the earth is a spheroid, I felt that many FE types were experiencing something. But obviously their explanation of a Flat Earth was wrong. These sources help to understand what's going on.
The absolute proof of a round planet is in celestial navigation. You need spherical trig to plot a course and/or position because you have to use the arc segment of a great circle ON A Round Planet. You need trig to work the angles off your fixes in the sky. If the earth was flat and you used this you would get lost and probably die. If you use plane geometry you will get lost and probably die. I'm a certified navigator. I've sailed from San Francisco and from Seattle to Honolulu and to Tokyo. I hope to CIRCUMnavigate the Earth some day. Sure I used GPS too - which our FE people need to explain since they don't believe in satellites - and it's pretty darn hard to put transmitters out in every part of the oceans. But don't believe me. Ask airline crew, commercial fishermen or cargo ship officers. Ask the companies that run these craft. Ask the navigator/bombardier who's flow any of the worlds strategic bombers.
Better yet - Flat earthers should put their money where their mouth is, get a boat and cross any ocean of their choice using plane geometry. I guarantee we'll get no takers.
James I guess you make a pretty good point. That's really a sad state of affairs. It means you can't even structure it as testable predictions that are generated out of two different theories. This would be a nearly perfect example of how science is done with math and logic, no deep pockets or esoteric instruments or years of education.
But maybe we could get a few of them to take the bet publicly? If nothing else we'd have a few fewer of them under foot and a few FE fans might get the result.
No one has seen this video and not become a flat earther. Try it urself: /watch?v=k0xClWgidZU&t=1s
ExJw That url doesn't work. I think it's not complete. Why don't you just summarize the argument for us? But I will tell you up front that I'm skeptical as hell about "No one who has seen" claims. That's a HUGE red flag right there. It's got several fallacies embedded and we haven't even looked at the clip yet.
Just add youtubeDOTcom before the rest
Thanks for that. I watched the first 15 minutes. It is a very nicely produced presentation, aside from the very painful, totally untrained speaking of the presenter. That was almost as cringe-worthy as some of the computer generated clips on TH-cam. But it can be ignore because at least it is clear and understandable.
I will assume the clip lays out the commonly accepted FE positions. It is nice to have them bundled up. But it is not an argument. And I'm surprised anyone could be convinced. Rather, it is an assembly of random observations and speculation, assertion usually with no evidence, and no documentation of testing. There are huge gaps in physics, astronomy, geology and climate (for starters) that are needed to have an actual theory. So I see this as laying out the most common experiences and observations attributed to a flat earth. But this is exactly the error that I point out initially. The descriptions of perceptions may be legitimate, but the attribution of them to a flat earth is necessarily wrong.
I'm using "necessary" in the logical sense, because the attribution of a flat earth explanation is inconsistent with one well established, fundamental fact. This fact is not dependent on perception and special pleading, on lack of data. _The actual, documented, universally experienced fact is that you need spherical trig to navigate using the sun, stars and planets. Plane geometry does not work._ It follows that the earth must be spherical. This is not just academic theory. There are thousands and thousands of people alive now, who have staked their lives on this. Businesses stake their profits on this. It has been happening every day since at least the early 18th century.
This is not esoteric knowledge. There is no conspiracy involved. Anyone can test this on their own at little to no cost. You can interview airline crew or ship watch standing officers. You can learn navigation, go out and give it a try. You can try to find one of them willing to take you along and do it with plane geometry. I await hearing from any FE proponent who actually puts their beliefs on the line. But ironically, if they do - we're likely to never hear from them again.
Come on, people! If the Earth was flat cats would have pushed everything off it by now!
Eight inches times the mileage squared.
That´s right!
Eight inches times the mileage squared,
gives you the curvature of the earth.
Come on Sing along!
"I'm not going to look at their evidence, let's look at some unconscious stuff instead." I don't suppose you know where the term "conspiracy theorist" comes from, do you?
Definitely see this in regards to quantum mechanics and whether it effects free will as well as the the big expansion (bang) and what nothing means in that circumstance.
I do think we should try to convince flat earthers because as you've said most conspiracy theorists will believe in other conspiracies and there is a good chance that one of them will be harmful.
12:30 But there is plenty of stuff we can all see (whether through a telescope or the naked eye) that proves globe. We can all see this first hand (from the real world, not from TH-cam):
1) Moon and sun size.
2) Moon and sun shape.
3) Moon and sun do not appear to "vanish" about 10 degrees above the horizon (as with FE geometry).
4) Venus is only seen near the sun but Mars and all planets beyond are seen anywhere in relation to the sun.
5) Venus phases.
6) Venus size.
7) Jupiter's moons changing positions.
8) Saturn's rings changing shape.
9) Sharp sea horizon viewed from a high cliff.
10) Some distant islands can't be seen from sea level and can be from a high cliff.
11) Over 99% of the time ships slip behind the horizon and less than 1% of the time they "don't".
12) The smallest wavetops viewed through a low telescope are completely detailed against a background of sky or land.
13) You can see the Southern Cross circle the SCP watched in stages overnight.
Over a dozen things we can all see with our own eyes that proves globe and flat earthers only have their flat horizon and their ships staying on the horizon 1% of the time and they have nothing else (when it comes to seeing stuff for ourselves). If a germ was on an exercise ball, would the germ see any curvature? And for ships going down over 99% of the time, isn't that to my advantage (by 99%)? lol I am talking about an unbiased interpretation of evidence in the real world that we can all see.
And Rachel, congrats on 10k!- also you have to check out the new book by Peter Joseph- "The New Human Rights Movement"...
John Rossi Thank you!! :) I’ll have a look into it! :)
Flat eathers comments are always hilarious though, keep it up guys.
Great video! A logical TH-camr for once! lol Subscribed.
❤️ Thank you!!
You bet!
Like all my comments, this'll be longish and wordyish. Warned. Good work Rachel, this is the first video in a while in the youtube anti-flat earth genre I've seen cover something new: The individuality of each believer. When you brought up that they couldn't understand and so needed to find out for themselves "in their own way," an old thought resurfaced. I know couple of flat earthers who are extremely intelligent, almost genius, but undereducated because school was simply too hard for them in weird ways you wouldn't expect from smart kids. It failed to teach them things they needed to learn in the ways they needed to learn them, leaving a knowledge gap (no matter how small, a gap) between point A, their current comprehension of physics, trigonometry, etc. (The tools needed to know why it looks flat, why we know it isn't, and how you can check easily and regularly that it hasn't become flat), and point B, the comprehension needed to see a flat horizon and realize it shouldn't actually curve downward, to enately understand how perspective works in everyday life, and to accept how small we actually are as humans, given that people tend to, in a sense, expand to fill their lives and forget how big the world or the universe is. And point B.1, the factual, historical knowledge to understand that we first started building scientific instruments as a direct consequence of having observed everything that our senses could from our accessible surroundings, yet having learned just enough to know that there's more to know. These points are often lost on even the smartest flat earthers who talk with me about it. Same thing with subjects like the Large Hadron Collider. Friend of mine with a 10th grade education, very smart, very observant, actually knew little enough and assumed enough (filling gaps with bullshit) to speak the sentence "those fucking idiot scientists at CERN are going to make a black hole and destroy the planet." It blew me away how anyone as intelligent as him could foster a thought that CERN would in a million years, have idiots colliding particles at almost relativistic speed, or they'd even consider increasing its magnetic power to 7x original capabilities if they hadn't already predicted exactly what would happen the first time they switched on they LHC, and been exactly right. Fun fact for anyone still reading, the amount of physical energy released upon collision with the new system will be similar to that of a few mosquito wings flapping a single time each, instead of just one mosquito as before. Not scary, unless you'd never looked closely enough to hear that figure, which I learned from an interview with a CERN scientist. Wasn't even researching the subject at the time, that's how easy it is, you can accidentally learn some boring piece of reality that puts things into boring perspective. But the fact that we don't personally, directly manage the physicists there doing their jobs, for some of us is proof enough that they don't know what they're doing and would happily make a mistake that could actually potentially destroy the world, if that was even a scientific possibility of smashing single atomic or subatomic particles into each other. Now as you said, you can apply this suspicion system reaction to any organization with trade secrets or whom people simply don't bother checking into before setting some strong personal notions, then going researching with a confirmation bias. And viola, a conspiracy theory is born.
From everything I've gathered, which is not everything, these are just holes left in no small part by schools not being able to afford to give a shit about any one kid during our most intellectually critical learning phase. And by that issue's interplay with some kids having just needed a little different approach. Not special ed, I just mean individualized, comprehension- based rather than test results- based education. While the shoe may fit some just fine, public education's been around for a long time and we still have flat earthers, so it's clearly not one-size-fits-all.
I think the belief is potentially harmful in some ways, because as Steve (RR) puts it, beliefs inform actions... Heh. I take a special interest in hardcore conspiracy believers, because I feel like they're a symptom of something somewhat analogous to a sickness. Not individual sickness, but a sickness of the collective intelligence of the human species. I'm a subscriber to the gene-centered evolution idea (but NOT a eugenicist, let me be clear), so I feel any significant number of people (they had their first international convention recently) believing wholeheartedly in something stupid that isn't even their childhood religion (don't even get me started on the independent learning skills taught there), is something we need to figure out the cause of, and remedy. If not by helping current flat earthers, then by helping our teachers and parents figure out how not to leave those knowledge gaps. Living in an information age makes it a whole new battle, when all of human knowledge, and all its bad ideas, are in our damn pockets. Either way I honestly believe it's in all our best interests to admit there's a problem somewhere, not necessarily at the symptom site, determine what to fix, and how. Without making anyone feel like we think they're a disease, is the trick. The outphasing of flat earthers from more informed circles I see today probably happened in a similar manner during their school years for many of them, and it certainly couldn't have helped the problems caused by schools.
But I do think we should engage with them more and question what they're saying or how they're sorting through their thoughts, if not just to dissuade the hypothesis because it's annoying or whatever, then to help them as friends, colleagues, family, etc. to learn to routinely practice truly rational thought and to accurately learn the things they are trying to learn, while they're still doing so. That's based on my belief that it was a lack of attention which caused its widespread success in the first place for so many, but most of my experiences locally have confirmed this being the case when I got around to asking politely how school was for them. So I honestly think we need to take action in the sense that they need our help, not our opposition, even if it's in the form of some healthy debate opposition where we fucking know we've got them, to a laughable point, all that'll happen if it's not opposed healthily is they'll continue being ridiculed for wanting to learn from a starting point of how it looks, until their hypothesis also includes something like "no one will EVER convince me now. Screw everyone who thinks they're so smart with their science." And a few points made in your video certainly reinforced that thought. I have so many thoughts, I've followed this way too closely, but I'll stop it there, my answer/comment is put as simply as I can do. Thanks for making this!
I used to think the Earth was flat for about a whole year, but what really helped me realize it wasn't true was the amount of special pleading I had to do for it to make sense with what I saw move in the sky, and the only aspect I didn't need special pleading for was that I didn't feel any motion of the Earth but I knew that would make a difference anyway. So, since the heliocentric model fits every single prediction for the sky and the ground I ended up thinking the world was a ball again.
I had been questioning my belief in God the same time mostly because I felt blackmailed buy the entire system but felt as though it could be a bluff and sense every time I prayed it didn't work I kind of ended up being more of a deist for a little bit because I didn't have any explanation of what we, and other animals, originated from. I had been a Christian creationist because that's what I was told was true for my entire life up to that point. I decided to just simply see if there is any evidence for evolution in the first place, and if it wasn't obvious at first I wasn't going to give it any more time, but luckily the very first few things I saw (stated clearly's "evidence for evolution") was so obvious that I realized that I hardly even knew what evidence was in comparison to how much there was for evolution. After that since I then had an explanation for our Origins I wasn't really a deist anymore now I can call myself an atheist because I don't really believe in that stuff anymore.
you can be a theist and accept evolution but your story is exactly why YEC and other extreme forms of religion are bad even for faith.
Daniel Etter Hi. Creationists and flat earthers are not common among christians at all. You only find them among some american post-protestantist chapels. They are ignorant of the History of the Church.
Λογος
About 80% of all the Christians I know are young Earth creationist, and of those about 15% are flat-earthers.
Daniel Etter You live in the USA I guess.
Do you know why it's so easy to get away with committing conspiratorial actions? Because the same people who commit the biggest ones have also taught you what and how to think since you've been born. You've been immersed in deceit your whole life and think it's all truth.
You aren't undermining their argument that we experience a flat plane by making Ad Hominems fronted by psychology.
Where is the working scale model of the Heliocentric model?
Where is the horizontal curvature?
Where is the vacuum chamber that has no walls?
Where is the questioning of the globe?
Your point isn't worth a damn because it doesn't challenge any arguments, it sidesteps them by simply pulling a false psychology card.
Science is soooo valid when it goes along with the official 9/11 story.
If there is no curvature, why can't you see Tokyo from a high enough mountaintop? How do you explain ships disappearing over the horizon? Where does the sun go at night? What does the government gain from hiding mundane bullshit like this?
Maybe if you used your time to learn a thing or two about science instead of larping about the ebil gubbamint people would take you more seriously.
You need to think for yourself and have the testicular fortitude to realize your are responsible for what you know, not authority figures.
Dust, moisture, and atmospheric effects limit how far you can see.
Ships can disappear and you can see them again by zooming in. ~ perspective
The sun can be a lot smaller and a lot more local than what you are told.
The heliocentric model shapes your core beliefs and axioms and your perception of what we have available to us, it also represents finite resources and control because people are then conditioned to believe that we are evil and that we need equally evil people to rule us and manage what we have. You can be told to pay carbon taxes and you take it without question.
Science is not science if you are referring to the celebrities you see on TV. That is just a system of beliefs from authority that you do not challenge out of fear. If it truly were science, there would be rewards for people who disprove theories, it would be encouraged to try and disprove accepted theories rather than just going with confirmation bias.
NASA footage isn't real life.
Also, no gov't today has your interests at heart, its purpose is not to unite people to allow them to collectively work together to better their standards of living. Look at how countries are so eager to go to war before diplomacy while their citizens can barely get by and tell me I'm wrong. 9/11 is a blatant example of this.
Hahahahahahahahahaahahahahaha.
Can you test the speed of light yourself experimentally without making any assumptions to get the numbers for your math? can you prove that the celestial bodies are actual objects? Can you show me horizontal curvature? I've tried to find it but I can't. Can you show me an experiment that used gravity to keep air from rushing into a vacuum chamber that's been opened? When you see the ISS you aren't seeing a twig with solar panels sticking off of it, you are just seeing yet another light in the sky.
Can you show me real footage of the planes that allegedly hit the twin towers that isn't composited? Can you show me how a building can violate the laws of physics when it accelerates to near free fall speed without slowing down as it destroys four times its mass in healthy structure? Can you explain to me why there was no deep investigation into WTC 6, why the whole center of it was destroyed all the way to the basement?
I'd argue that your method of testing the speed of light is flawed because you'd be conducting the experiment in a medium which slows it down.
The dogcam footage you showed me isn't enough because I've seen other videos of footage like it without curvature at a higher altitude. Even then you can't see half the curvature at half the altitude.
You've implied that you cannot conduct a small scale experiment showing a vacuum adjacent to an atmosphere. I don't see why someone couldn't get a ferromagnetic gas and a sphere magnet in a vacuum chamber and make sure the magnet pulls at 9.8m/s^2.
You are right, I do know crap. Nobody has ever proved that the origin of those lights in the sky are physical objects, we've only ever observed them with 1 of our 5 senses from the same angle; looking up. No space agency is trustworthy. No government funded body is trustworthy. Even then, it is illogical to appeal to any authority. We really do know nothing, just look at newearth's channel. Academic institutions ignore the sites and artifacts Sylvie shows you on her channel.
Great video!
There is probably also a social aspect to these conspiracy theories, right? They form communities of people who agree on a fringe idea that puts them against the rest of the world.
This probably doesn't explain why people get into those beliefs initially, but it probably explains in part why it's so difficult to convince them once they are already believers.
You aren't just trying to convince them to change their minds, but also to essentially leave a lot of their friends behind, like betraying them. No doubt this must have some impact.
I always appreciate a good research, great video :D And congratz on 10k!! Glad to see your channel grow, Rachel :]
Eight inches times the mileage squared.
That´s right!
Eight inches times the mileage squared,
gives you the curvature of the earth.
Come on Sing along!
I like your choice of Background.
The intro to each episode should be you running your fingers across the books, then pulling one out related to the topic you're going to discuss > then the show starts and you discuss a new topic.
X
I don't actually think that there are that many percentage-wise but in the days of the internet, their stupidity is magnified.
Take any ball big enough to try this... get some toy figures like little army men... get some legos and build several little towers... get several hot wheels cars...
Now glue or fix them anywhere in the proper direction (meaning down towards the center of the ball to represent " *gravity* ") covering all the surface of the ball...
And tell me what do you see. _That is a representation of your spherical earth with people, buildings and vehicles throughout the earth._
Oh wait! what!!!! *No matter how you turn that ball, someone or something somewhere is upside down in relation to any given point 180 degrees from one another.*
Now, you very well know that no one is upside down, right? *What does this simple logical explanation reveal to you?*
Everyone is so caught up with scientific explanations that are to blind or brainwashed to see the simplicity of this.
Science may continue to fool others, but Alonso Zapata is not fooled by science.
Have a great one everybody
... Do you really think this is an argument against a spherical earth?
The point you explain about insecurity and physics being so complicated is great. I am sometimes uncomfortable about how I'll never learn or understand all the super abstract math and science.
The "research" that flat Earthers do is to watch three or four hours of lunatic fringe videos, then consider themselves experts. Of course it helps that so many of them are fundamentalists.
I watch this show Adam Ruins Everything on TruTV (now it's an adult cartoon version), and in one episode he talked about conspiracy theories and why people believe them, but he never talked about flat earth matters, which would've gone deeper but would've probably made the episode a two-parter. So I really appreciate this video.
+BNL07604 Did you ever see my other comment that I responded to you with?
John Smith Yeah, then it disappeared.
John Smith I saw the screencast, thank you!
Okay, maybe this will come through:
www.screencast.com/t/jQQRigHj
Cheers!
Well I think I figured out why so many of my comments go unanswered.... Damn, I am not sure if was the link or the words..
Yeah, but when a flat earther gets in the govt. and tries to have NASA defunded..?
Excellent. Even as I am rather late to the party, the "outsider physics" explanation also tracks with my, admittedly limited, exposure to people making these arguments. One also shouldn't underestimate the value of using a way of understanding the Universe that is both simpler and largely immune to any sort of outside or complex methodology: i.e. actual Science is hard to understand, versus de minimus Bronze Age cosmology. As to whether this tendency is dangerous or not (your last argument in the video), my guess would be dependent on numbers: thousands of youtubers who are horizontally challenged might not matter that much. Millions on the other hand, embracing yet another, in this case especially virulent anti-Science agenda, well, I can't see the upside. Again, great video. You have another subscriber.
It's fine to want to test for your self, but when they ignore tests that show the curve, and chuck it off to goverments faking data and what not, and so far flat earthers that I interacted with were like that. So I think it might be a different reason.
Okay, I once flew on the Concorde back in 98. Before takeoff, I observed the outside very carefully to detect if the window distorted the view. I saw no distortion, everything looked their appropriate shape or proportions. When we reached cruising altitude of ~11 miles / 17 km, from my window, I saw the curvature of the earth with my own eyes, and the sky was a darker shade of blue. Again, I checked prior to takeoff and the windows were NOT distorting anything.
1918: "In the future, we'll colonize Mars"
2018: "The flat Earth community has members all around the globe!"
2118: "Hey son, remember when flat Earth was a thing? Natural selection wiped them off"
Sounds to me that the anxiety trigger for flat earthers is not understanding something integral to our existence.
The idea touched on in the book you mentioned is very similar to the idea behind Post-modern Anthropology. Especially in the way that Post-modernist believe that facts are a cultural construct, and no one of these "facts" are more or less true than the others because each culture is different and exists on its own.
You are far nicer than I could ever be. I see your point about a lesser evil but I would suggest that it's important to minimize miss information.
On a flat earth a trip around the world at the 60th parallel south would be a helluva longer flight than 60th north. Round earthers don't have that problem.
Also, if you just know the earth is hollow, you'll be alright.
I guess the mean one for me was when I realized that the Stars revolve around Polaris. If you take a time-lapse video of Polaris you will see the stars spinning around it. Now when you think about the heliocentric model. The Earth is spinning a thousand miles an hour. The Earth is also orbiting the Sun while the sun is traveling in a Street Direction pulling the Galaxy with it. If you take into account all these different movements in the heliocentric model and compare it to what we observe in the natural world it does not add up. If I was on the earth that the heliocentric model suggests the star patterns would never be the same. We would have different constellations popping up all the time instead of the spinning around Polaris that we see.
Well at least your answer sounds honest and trying to make it make sense. I'll take it into consideration. I'm still exploring.
Other than ignorance, I think the main reason Flat-Earth becomes so attractive of a concept, is because it's basically _infalsifiable_ using non-advanced observation, and using only primitive tools, like looking around and looking at objects seeing how they move.
When someone doesn't see a curvature the way a spaceship does, doesn't see celestial movement the way Hubble does, and doesn't need to think about physics like an astrophysicist, they can easily create their own "accurate" model of reality, that describes all the basic things, in a plausible (in their mindset) explanation, that doesn't require the supernatural. Like a down-to-earth, practical thought, that doesn't need to take into account anything else other people claim, especially when that person is disconnected/dissociated with the things that produce the actual advanced, real-world, highly-accurate observations. Like a farmer, that only needs to know about what is "good" and "bad" to his crops, and doesn't need to care about anything else.
From then on, when somebody builds a fringe belief like this, they become a minority in their peers. That means that once they find someone else that believes in the Flat Earth, _they will be more likely to accept ideas from them, even if they don't fit exactly in their own model._ So, when a flat earther, goes into the internet looking for answers, there's only one small pocket, that feels the same way, so they embrace that community and their ideas, almost unconditionally.
So, this is a kind of positive-feedback bias, and I think you can see that pretty much everywhere, not just conspiracies. Even ideas that circulate in modern feminism, mgtow, alt-right, etc. are held afloat directly because of that.
And, _even further,_ once you're in a certain community, you're more likely to accept certain ideas, strictly because of the groups "Suggestibility Bias". What that means is, when somebody communicates to you a certain idea, your brain stops looking for alternatives, and works mostly with that idea that was suggested. Even if you try to think of something new, your brain snaps back to that idea, like a song that's stuck in your head, and you're unable to remember of other songs. That's also part of how religions survive, and why promoting kids from young age to religion is _indoctrination._
I find that flat earthers have actually made me think more on how things actually work for a globe earth, so that i now have more or better understanding of a globe earth, its helped me understand flat earthers arguments and helped me understand how they are wrong and how a globe earth works.
talking to flat earthers make you realize Ken Ham is not the shortest kid in the class after all
"You don't need a conspiracy when interests converge." - George Carlin
First video I see of you, thank you for speaking and properly using sources, referencing them and all.
Good job~ I'm struggling with the same questions regarding my own stance regarding those well... Science deniers. I do differ in that I believe many are harmful to society by promoting ignorance, not skepticism or curiosity, which can influence certain sphere of society negatively by instilling fear of 'them', "whoever hides da truth", if you see what I mean
Congrats on earning the stainless steel play button. Aluminium is up next, I believe, I can't be certain though 'cause I'm still on styrofoam.
Plenty of flatearthers do not want to learn and explore the world. They are just stubborn people who are unable to receive new information. I'm holding a discussion with one of them. When I asked him about why gravity differs around the Earth, he called me an idiot and failed to answer.
Just watched the part where you talk about zetetic. It's funny to think that in French (I am French), the word "zététique" has a definition quite close to the definition of skepticism. Have a nice day,
Amélia.
Hmm, I went down the comments for a while and didn't see any flat earthers arguing... How disappointing.
Don’t worry, they’re in there- just sort by most recent :p
Rachel Oates Ah... found some! Haha
Flat earth is a very interesting pathology. I agree they are fairly harmless but if there are a lot of them it is a problem. It's also a problem if they are teaching their and other children this.
The interesting thing is they are willing to ignore many thousands of people that have dedicated their lives to science (Physicists, astronomers, geologists, etc) and organizations (NOAA, NASA, AAS, PASP, CDC, etc) in favor of a small number of largely discredited individuals with fringe ideas (Eric Dollard, Santos Bonacci) and internet sites that make money from selling these ideas.
The flat earth ideas seem easy on the surface but are not rooted in the physical world and do not allow the production of a physics etc. that produces the technology of the world we live in. The simple answer is not always the correct one.
Congratulations on reaching 10K subscribers!
It's a challenging exercise to do the math of flatworld. I imagine the physics must be even more exciting, but I'm no physicist. I'm kinda glad flat-earthers exist (though I didn't know there were as many as you claim). For math geeks like me, "what if?" questions are a really good opportunity for us to put our brains to work.
I don't really want to expunge flat-earthers from the globe, I'm content just to say "Aah, bless!"
My dad, not a conspiracy nut and a very well reasoned guy, has some interesting theories about Shakespeare. He thinks that many of Shakespeare's plays were written by Christopher Marlow while in hiding in Italy.
My dad thinks that everyone has one conspiracy theory they believe and I've learned from experience that I think that's true.
I would rather have an accurate view of reality, even if that view may have unpleasant consequences, such as never again seeing my mother (who passed away on October 2016).
I feel that being honest with yourself is more important that being comfortable.
I love your stuff, R., and I like to think that I'm a fairly rational person. But I think we have to avoid making a religion out of science. The text shown starting around 1:30 says "scientifically founded principles of nature", making it sound as if nature derives from science, when in fact science is simply a method for trying to understand nature. The fact is that most true scientists will agree that what we "understand" scientifically is the merest fraction of a fraction of actual reality. Nor do I believe that so-called "supernatural" belief and practices, like spirituality and religion (some religions, anyway) are necessarily irrational. There are worse ways to react to the state of the world than prayer or ritual. I think we need to promote a more holistic model that makes room for both science and spirit.
As you yourself pointed out, if you believe in one conspiracy theory, you are more likely to believe in others as well. So in my mind, we shouldn't let them be, or having fallen down that rabbit hole, they're more likely to fall down the next one that comes along. Though I don't have much to support this suggested way of treating the conspiracy theory phenomenon that I think is on the rise due to social media filter bubbles.
I hate fat-shaming, BUT I LOVE FLAT-SHAMING!!
The Ultimate Reductionist flat is justice.
Oh you mean planets, not woman breasts?
The other thing is if they believe in what they see, take them to the ocean on a clear day where there are shipping lanes. Let them watch the ships gradually disappear over the horizon, and ask them why this is happening, are they sinking beneath the water when they disappear in the distance? Uh uh uh, idk.....
The worst thing you can do is try to suppress an idea. It will just make them try harder, and give them more exposure to the media.
The guy planning to launch himself in a homemade rocket might hurt himself.