Something I found when experimenting with marx generator's is that feeding them at the half way point is a totally valid way to get a more even distribution of charge across the capacitors, and has a pretty dramatic effect on the length of the output arc. That coupled with a spark gap triggered by a HV pulse from an induction coil and a simple 555 circuit, and the spark gaps widened to the point they wont fire from just the max charging voltage nearly doubled the arc lengths I was getting. Some food for thought.
Thanks for sharing that idea! You could also power the circuit, each capacitor with its own pair of 1 m ohm resistors in series. Then power the ends of the resistors in parallel. This way, each capacitor has a fair amount of charge. The spark gaps go in series with the capacitors.
One thing that I learned with my 20-stage Marx is to only use battery power after killing a SMPS. You also don't want any possibility of those discharges feeding back into your house wiring. Using battery power totally isolates the Marx generator from the house wiring. I use two 5-amp-hour 12-volt batteries in series for 24 volts. They last a very long time between re-charges. The batteries also make the device extremely portable.
That's exactly what i used. I have several 5 A-h 3S lipo batteries left over from RC flying that I use. Even through the battery, i can get a really nasty sting if the discharge backfeeds. I think the solution might be to put some big chokes on the output and ground line
9:47 YES! I can't wait! I have a design in my head that uses 2 vertical wooden beams as resistors and homemade capacitors. If I can get it upto 50kV with 20 stages...
loved this video. reminded me of my days in the lighting lab at boeing. your marx generator is pretty close to what we used in the lab. you might consider using spheres for your spark gaps and put them on a pole that you can rotate towards or away from each other. And of course the pole was closer at the top than at the bottom. cant wait for your 1 million volt marx tower.
It seems you could prevent feedback by spacing everything except the spark gaps out way more and encasing them in epoxy. Also you could have slightly higher value caps at the beginning that will take slightly longer to charge than the last cap, which should make all the difference when the charging is separated by only a few hundred ms. Either way I learned something here, great video!
Good work! I like your scientific approach, one thing about the spark lenght: if the positive is a neddle: 15/16cm (6inc) = 100kV, over 25cm (over 10inc) = 5kV/cm (5kv/0,39inc), when you reach MV it's even more. With short pulses ca be slightly different (tens of usec...). You cuold measure it using spheric electrodes, search "ikea blanda blanck" :). diameter of the spere > 2*distance between the spheres (with a 25cm sphere you can measure up to 300kV "precisely"). Online you can find some conversion table for the kv/inc with different spheres and distances. :) Rip chines power supply ;)
With such Marc it's very difficult to get 6" with 100 kV, even with a needle gap. The impulse is short so you can't extrapolate from DC or 60 Hz experiments there
Spheric electrodes should be good down to uSecs pulses. 300kV should jump over 5" with spherical (> 10" diameter) electrodes. Still, needle electrodes above a few kV's are unpredictable. Cheers.
@@imeprezime1285 God has said in the Quran: { O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous - ( 2:21 ) [He] who made for you the earth a bed [spread out] and the sky a ceiling and sent down from the sky, rain and brought forth thereby fruits as provision for you. So do not attribute to Allah equals while you know [that there is nothing similar to Him]. ( 2:22 ) And if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our Servant [Muhammad], then produce a surah the like thereof and call upon your witnesses other than Allah, if you should be truthful. ( 2:23 ) But if you do not - and you will never be able to - then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers.( 2:24 ) And give good tidings to those who believe and do righteous deeds that they will have gardens [in Paradise] beneath which rivers flow. Whenever they are provided with a provision of fruit therefrom, they will say, "This is what we were provided with before." And it is given to them in likeness. And they will have therein purified spouses, and they will abide therein eternally. ( 2:25 ) Quran
this is very cool, if you can mitigate the lost and get all that power in a vacuum tube, you are not far from being able to do nuclear reactions (above 400Kv) never mind the X rays...great stuff
One of the methods used is to make all of the gaps except the last one a too large to fire at full voltage then it should consistently fire when the last stage reaches full charge. Based on the uv generated triggering the other stages.
When I was a kid about 50 years ago my grandfather was the President of the museum of science and industry in Chicago where he built 1,000,000 V spark generator, the capacitors were huge they were electrolytic and when he fired that thing up the whole building shook it was so cool
@@jackspratt4343 My Grandfather, “ Major Lennox Riley Lohr” was the G.M. Of the 1933/34 world fair and for a period, President of NBC as well of several other things in Chicago. So did the Spark generator come from the 1893 fair?
@@stephenrocks7004 Hi Stephen. That is very interesting about your Grandfather, thanks. I believe that , yes, the Chicago, White City Expo ( World's Fair ) of 1893 , showcased the technology of the pre-reset civilisation that occupied what is , present day America. I don't believe, personally, that Edison, Tesla and Westinghouse were anything but the 'inheritors' and NOT the inventors of the electromechanical apparatus on display. I would also go as far as to say that I believe that Isambad Kingdom Brunel was just an autistic draughtsman, sent out to chronicle and document various 'artifacts' from the UK, from Iron Bridges to large ships.
I really want you to test this as a power supply for a dielectric barrier discharge or asymmetrical capacitor ion thruster. It would be interesting to see how much thrust it could develop per pulse. I want to see if you can find a thin, lightweight dielectric that can actually withstand such high voltages. I want to know if you can develop a static or quasi-static plasma double layer around a dielectric sealed electrode in atmospheric pressure air. I suspect that the double layer would have trouble "inflating" in atmosphere, but that you could oscillate the voltage, and/or supply a corona discharge through an exposed electrode of low voltage but high amperage in order to heat up the plasma double layer like a hot air balloon.
These things can kill all electronics if you're not careful. I had a modern oled tv go blacksreen in another room... Luckyly it still turned on afterward!
How about a radial setup? Source and ground on a vertical (imaginary) axle and each capacitor set the same distance from the axle horizontally. Basically like a kitchen whisk. The long arc is connected to the axle as well then, so that there is symmetry at discharge as well. Might that not solve some of the charging problems and get it closer to the theoretical max multiplification?
Do the rectifier diodes need to be 100ma? According to my calculations the amperage on the secondary would be 0.001 amps at 20kv. Could a 5ma diode also work?
Not much on its own. Really just a fun demonstration. But they've been used (and maybe still are? not sure) in physics experiments and equipment testing where you want to test what happens if a very high voltage hits something.
Something I found when experimenting with marx generator's is that feeding them at the half way point is a totally valid way to get a more even distribution of charge across the capacitors, and has a pretty dramatic effect on the length of the output arc. That coupled with a spark gap triggered by a HV pulse from an induction coil and a simple 555 circuit, and the spark gaps widened to the point they wont fire from just the max charging voltage nearly doubled the arc lengths I was getting. Some food for thought.
thx for sharing, it work in my gen too. I can't tell you anything about why through
Thanks for sharing that idea! You could also power the circuit, each capacitor with its own pair of 1 m ohm resistors in series. Then power the ends of the resistors in parallel. This way, each capacitor has a fair amount of charge. The spark gaps go in series with the capacitors.
One thing that I learned with my 20-stage Marx is to only use battery power after killing a SMPS. You also don't want any possibility of those discharges feeding back into your house wiring. Using battery power totally isolates the Marx generator from the house wiring. I use two 5-amp-hour 12-volt batteries in series for 24 volts. They last a very long time between re-charges. The batteries also make the device extremely portable.
That's exactly what i used. I have several 5 A-h 3S lipo batteries left over from RC flying that I use. Even through the battery, i can get a really nasty sting if the discharge backfeeds. I think the solution might be to put some big chokes on the output and ground line
@@HyperspacePirate I placed a MOV between my battery terminals. Works so far. Just to be safe I only use a short hot-stick to toggle the power switch.
Found you yesterday...subscribed directly after...and now I may enjoy a new video...NICE!
9:47 YES! I can't wait!
I have a design in my head that uses 2 vertical wooden beams as resistors and homemade capacitors. If I can get it upto 50kV with 20 stages...
Awesome! those sparks are insane!
I’m just getting interesting in high voltage experiment. You have a great channel with lots of interesting technical details. Thanks regards Chris
Awesome. I get a kick out of the shadow of him on the wall coaxing it with a stick.
loved this video. reminded me of my days in the lighting lab at boeing. your marx generator is pretty close to what we used in the lab. you might consider using spheres for your spark gaps and put them on a pole that you can rotate towards or away from each other. And of course the pole was closer at the top than at the bottom. cant wait for your 1 million volt marx tower.
I found that an a.m. radio tuned to 600 can pick up lightning strikes before you see or hear them many miles away try it let me know.
Awesome video! You deserve more subs!
8:18 The best way is to set all the spark gaps slightly too wide to spark, except the last one which is small enough to spark when fully charged.
Excellent video. The best on this subject
It seems you could prevent feedback by spacing everything except the spark gaps out way more and encasing them in epoxy. Also you could have slightly higher value caps at the beginning that will take slightly longer to charge than the last cap, which should make all the difference when the charging is separated by only a few hundred ms. Either way I learned something here, great video!
Good work! I like your scientific approach, one thing about the spark lenght: if the positive is a neddle: 15/16cm (6inc) = 100kV, over 25cm (over 10inc) = 5kV/cm (5kv/0,39inc), when you reach MV it's even more. With short pulses ca be slightly different (tens of usec...). You cuold measure it using spheric electrodes, search "ikea blanda blanck" :). diameter of the spere > 2*distance between the spheres (with a 25cm sphere you can measure up to 300kV "precisely"). Online you can find some conversion table for the kv/inc with different spheres and distances. :) Rip chines power supply ;)
With such Marc it's very difficult to get 6" with 100 kV, even with a needle gap. The impulse is short so you can't extrapolate from DC or 60 Hz experiments there
Spheric electrodes should be good down to uSecs pulses. 300kV should jump over 5" with spherical (> 10" diameter) electrodes. Still, needle electrodes above a few kV's are unpredictable. Cheers.
@@imeprezime1285
God has said in the Quran:
{ O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous - ( 2:21 )
[He] who made for you the earth a bed [spread out] and the sky a ceiling and sent down from the sky, rain and brought forth thereby fruits as provision for you. So do not attribute to Allah equals while you know [that there is nothing similar to Him]. ( 2:22 )
And if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our Servant [Muhammad], then produce a surah the like thereof and call upon your witnesses other than Allah, if you should be truthful. ( 2:23 )
But if you do not - and you will never be able to - then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers.( 2:24 )
And give good tidings to those who believe and do righteous deeds that they will have gardens [in Paradise] beneath which rivers flow. Whenever they are provided with a provision of fruit therefrom, they will say, "This is what we were provided with before." And it is given to them in likeness. And they will have therein purified spouses, and they will abide therein eternally. ( 2:25 )
Quran
If you want to fix that problem with your power suply open it and replace a protection diode on the output.
this is very cool, if you can mitigate the lost and get all that power in a vacuum tube, you are not far from being able to do nuclear reactions (above 400Kv) never mind the X rays...great stuff
One of the methods used is to make all of the gaps except the last one a too large to fire at full voltage then it should consistently fire when the last stage reaches full charge. Based on the uv generated triggering the other stages.
*That's the way to do it*
Very informative video. Amazing work!
7:51 *shows a quadratic function*
"As you can see, this grows exponentially"
When I was a kid about 50 years ago my grandfather was the President of the museum of science and industry in Chicago where he built 1,000,000 V spark generator, the capacitors were huge they were electrolytic and when he fired that thing up the whole building shook it was so cool
Curator of Tartarian tech.
@@jackspratt4343 My Grandfather, “ Major Lennox Riley Lohr” was the G.M. Of the 1933/34 world fair and for a period, President of NBC as well of several other things in Chicago.
So did the Spark generator come from the 1893 fair?
@@stephenrocks7004 Hi Stephen. That is very interesting about your Grandfather, thanks. I believe that , yes, the Chicago, White City Expo ( World's Fair ) of 1893 , showcased the technology of the pre-reset civilisation that occupied what is , present day America. I don't believe, personally, that Edison, Tesla and Westinghouse were anything but the 'inheritors' and NOT the inventors of the electromechanical apparatus on display. I would also go as far as to say that I believe that Isambad Kingdom Brunel was just an autistic draughtsman, sent out to chronicle and document various 'artifacts' from the UK, from Iron Bridges to large ships.
I really want you to test this as a power supply for a dielectric barrier discharge or asymmetrical capacitor ion thruster. It would be interesting to see how much thrust it could develop per pulse. I want to see if you can find a thin, lightweight dielectric that can actually withstand such high voltages. I want to know if you can develop a static or quasi-static plasma double layer around a dielectric sealed electrode in atmospheric pressure air. I suspect that the double layer would have trouble "inflating" in atmosphere, but that you could oscillate the voltage, and/or supply a corona discharge through an exposed electrode of low voltage but high amperage in order to heat up the plasma double layer like a hot air balloon.
Genius MGTOW splendid work man ! 🤜🏻👍🏻
woah that's brilliant and makes total sense adjusting the spark gaps like that. 3D printed insulating boxes are a solid solution also.
can you add bigger capacitors in the beginning and add inductors somewhere in the middle?
How does the amperage scale between input and output? You would think it scales down proportionately.
Are you inputting 12v ac into the primary coil of your transformer?
Were the first seconds recorded with a calculator?
You deserve more
what if instead of changing the gap distance you change the capacitance value for the first few capacitors
These things can kill all electronics if you're not careful. I had a modern oled tv go blacksreen in another room... Luckyly it still turned on afterward!
How about a radial setup? Source and ground on a vertical (imaginary) axle and each capacitor set the same distance from the axle horizontally. Basically like a kitchen whisk. The long arc is connected to the axle as well then, so that there is symmetry at discharge as well. Might that not solve some of the charging problems and get it closer to the theoretical max multiplification?
Interesting!
Cool. I would try double caps.
keep it up it was marvellous!!!
i need to ask if you can share with us the file for the trabsfomer 3d print please
I like the RC time constant explanation. Even trained experts get this wrong!
what is the program used for simulation at 7:07 onwards ?
Do the rectifier diodes need to be 100ma? According to my calculations the amperage on the secondary would be 0.001 amps at 20kv. Could a 5ma diode also work?
I'm using a larger rating than necessary because of surges, short circuits, etc. With high voltage, lots of unexpected things can go wrong
Bro gives me the software as you use in to design.
3:05 connect two capacitors in series and that won't happen again
Is it dangerous?
Somewhat. It would probably give you a really nasty shock, but it's unlikely to be lethal. For electronics it's definitely dangerous though.
Using mm to measure spark gap would be a lot better because it's about 1kV/mm so you could estimate the voltage and also not everyone lives in usa lol
lol, mini cellphone tower.
0:12 epic
So what does this achieve? I am in an unknown corner of youtube here...
Not much on its own. Really just a fun demonstration. But they've been used (and maybe still are? not sure) in physics experiments and equipment testing where you want to test what happens if a very high voltage hits something.
Well normal lightning travels hundred of miles between the clouds and ground so look at that terminology.
Why do they call it a generator when all it does is convert.