Remember to subscribe to NupeFromDaVille now! Rekkai's (NupeFromDaVille's) Deep Dives for this episode available - th-cam.com/video/Izs8H_TfNeQ/w-d-xo.html Rekkai's (NupeFromDaVille's) Deep Dives for Sherlock available now! - th-cam.com/play/PLQ1om1IMqFrhRPCdAc4Gvp-uG-6pEGPhX.html&si=jBcGf134bCAjymOH Make sure you join the Discord - discord.gg/ZKHV8dKcjQ
Syntell, while watching Sherlock fighting with the guy who wanted the Thatcher bust; "I've seen that guy before, too." Me, smirking because I know he hasn't gotten to that episode of Doctor Who yet. 🤫🤭😉
It is exactly like John, he had lots of short term relationships before Mary mostly because he put Sherlock first but also because he got bored. Same reason he likes Sherlock, he has always craved action. Mary was exciting at first but the domesticity of having a baby and not much adventure made him bored and wanting other excitement. That's who John is, it's been brought up multiple times, in multiple seasons. I think cause you like John you might be unintentionally blinding yourself/conveniently forgetting his negative traits.
Hmmmm... as a fan of John I hate to admit it, but you might be right :D Never thought about it from this perspective, I've always perceived John as an extremely loyal person because that's what we see in his relationship with Sherlock. But if we look at his relationships with other people, your reasoning makes absolute sense. Besides, I believe at this point he started to feel left out and betrayed by Mary and Sherlock with their constant quips that he can't keep up with them and is useless on cases. For someone who craves purpose as much as John, this must've hurt like hell. So that could also motivate him to turn to another person, who makes him feel valued and appreciated.
The Six Napoleons is a Sherlock Holmes story where the mystery is about a bunch of busts of Napoleon were being destroyed one by one. Sherlock Holmes figured out that there was a pearl treasure hidden inside one of them.
The outline of the 4th Season was already written (and most of the script) when the showrunners found out Martin and Amanda were seperating, (not yet known to public), but I garantee you, they didn't write her off for that reason. I assure you, Moffat and Gatiss kept on good terms with Amanda and Moffat even wrote a succesful theater play with Amanda playing the lead, directed by Gatiss. This isn't Hollywood, lesser drama here.
Baroque (sounded like barrock when he said it) was initially used derogatorily, it described art that was seen as bizarre and strange by critics favoring Neoclassicism. In this case, I think Sherlock means bizarre and overly elaborate.
She died during the Great Hiatus (what Sherlockians call the period from 1891-1894 when Watson believes Holmes to be dead). Mary and Watson meet when she is Holmes’ client.
I don't know if you guys realized but the first guy with the little Thatcher shrine in the beginning is Charles Edwards who plays Celebrimbor in The Rings of Power!
This episode was an emotional gamer changer episode, We see the threads of the tapestry but only in the last two episodes we will see the full picture within the tapestry. You both almost are looking at this through the grief we all experience when we know a beloved show is coming to an end. As a fan of Syntell and Nupe, love your passion!
She died between “The Final Problem” and “The Empty House” (at least, we assume she died). Theories include tuberculosis (some think she was not dead but away for extended treatment), heart condition (she faints during _The Sign of Four),_ and childbirth.
Next episode is one of my favorite episodes in this show and the best episode of season 4. I can’t wait for you to watch it. I disagree about John texting another woman being out of character. John is known to be a womanizer in the original stories. Even in this show they show him changing girlfriends like he changes clothes and even mixed two of them once. Talking to the girl is not out of character. Going all the way in with the other girl would have been out of character, but texting her and getting happy over her noticing him is not. I also disagree about Sherlock being the reason Mary died. Mary literally almost killed Sherlock and he forgave her like nothing. It wasn’t his fault she took a bullet meant for him. He did protect Mary in every way he can. He even killed a person to save her and John. He was ready to take a suicide mission to protect them. He gave them everything. John has no right to blame Sherlock for anything. Mary is the assassin here and her past came back to bite her. Sherlock did nothing but protect and sacrifice. It’s heartbreaking that John will lash out at him and blame him. While I understand John wants someone to blame and take it out on, but Sherlock doesn’t deserve that. Mary did die in the original stories as well.
Some people think Watson in the stories is a womanizer, but this rests largely on his admiring descriptions of some women in the stories and a single quote about an experience (what kind?) of women over many countries and three separate continents, along with a bit of treading by Holmes. I never really bought into it. John on the show went through a lot of girlfriends before he found Mary, but I’m not sure that was because he was a womanizer either. Very subjective.
@@HuntingViolets He was mixing the women up. He was a flirt to almost every woman he fancied. It is in character to flirt with a woman who fancied him in this episode.
@@kindabatooni9314 I took none of them being memorable because his focus was more on Sherlock, but I don't really have a strong opinion about John on the show. I wasn't saying it was out of character for him, per se.
Regarding Sherlock's responsibility, I don't know if I fully agree with you. In the aquarium scene, he antagonises Amo despite Mary trying to temper him, which he doesn't understand. Ultimately, there *is* something he can't control, which is people's actions and reactions, but he does back Amo into a corner in his usual cocky manner.
@@Loweene_Ancalimon Yeah but even that wasn’t the reason behind Mary’s death. The bullet was meant for him. Sherlock has absolutely nothing to do with Mary jumping to her death. Sherlock wouldn’t even be in this situation if it wasn’t for Mary being a criminal in the first place. It’s completely illogical to blame Sherlock for anything regarding Mary. He could have easily ruined her life when she almost killed him. He did nothing but protect and sacrifice.
The weird half wall room in the therapist's is set in an attic of an old church or somewhere similar & probably purposely made that way to distract us from what's going on, or make the situation feel awkward. But I could be talking absolute "guff"- that's another British slang word meaning "nonsense" 😅
Jack the Ripper wasn't a Sherlock Holmes story by Conan Doyle. The Whitechapel murders happened in 1888, incidentally, and Doyle would be unlikely to write about them fictionally. Holmes has gone against the Ripper in some pastiches, notably _Dust and Shadow_ by Lyndsay Faye and the movies, _A Study in Terror_ and _Murder by Decree._
Toby was a dog in _The Sign of Four._ He also appears in Nicholas Meyer's novel, _The Seven-Per-Cent Solution,_ which set off the Sherlockian pastiche boom in the 1970s.
I never understood the negativity this series got. I really enjoyed the latter half of episode 1 and love 2 and 3. As for Martin Freeman and Amanda Abingdon, they remain civil so I doubt there was much of an issue for them to continue working together after separating.
P.S. Yeah, #Sherlock Season 4 rubs a lot of people the wrong way. (Some don't like Season 3, either.) I love all of it but I can still appreciate what you are saying about it.
After you finish Sherlock, I highly recommend Luther, another BBC show about a smart detective, though a bit of a corrupt one, with Idris Elba starring. It’s really good
Some of John's behavior in this episode may be alluding back to his womanizing ways from original Arthur Conan Doyle canon where one of his nicknames from his service days was three contents Watson for his promiscuity spanning three continents. On a side note, in canon, neither Mary or her child survived the pregnancy dying within three years of her meeting and marrying John, and considering that - --in Sherlock, John and Mary had been in the their relationship during the two years Sherlock was away, and... Series three spanning their wedding, her pregnancy, and Rosie's birth into season four can be assumed to reflect somewhere around two years (if Rosie's age can be estimated being between 4-6 mths), then her death on Sherlock fairly matches the length of their relationship and her death in ACD canon with their meeting in 1889, their dating/courting, marriage between 1891-1893, and confirmation of her death by 1894. Admittedly, if Abbington and Freeman hadn't been divorced, it wouldn't have been a stretch to ignore that little bit of cannon, but ironically the canon timing somewhat fits. To an extent, this ending for her is actually a bit kinder because unlike in canon, their child survives her.
Yeah... book readers knew that Mary was going to die the moment we heard her name, it was only a matter of how. I wasn't crazy about them making her an ex-assasin, but I was willing to accept it for John's character development. The manner of her death here certainly sets up for the trippiest and most heartbreakingly uncomfortable episode in the series. For the record, I actually like season 4: just be willing to seriously suspend your disbelief for the finale.
Must say, I thought the next episode was stand out and reminded me of the 1st series. Twists, surprises, if one questionable moment - I'll let it go, but lowered the standard a notch.
As far as I can determine, Amanda Abbington and Martin Freeman were never married. They were partners and had children together, but didn't get married.
Mary dying was shocking. However, I think it was a good call to kill her off. The heart of this show is the relationship between Sherlock and John and that is what I want to see. While May was a good character, I felt it changed the dynamics too much. I also think that they possibly made Mary a bit too amazing at everything. I don't want anyone putting John in the shade!
Strasse is German for street, right up your street. ba·roque not Barack [bəˈrōk, bəˈräk] adjective relating to or denoting a style of European architecture, music, and art of the 17th and 18th centuries that followed mannerism and is characterized by ornate detail. In architecture the period is exemplified by the palace of Versailles and by the work of Bernini in Italy. Major composers include Vivaldi, Bach, and Handel; Caravaggio and Rubens are important baroque artists.
You’ve probably seen the episode already but just do some research on the real life “Jimmy Saville” before watching episode 2. There’s a TON of references/nods to this disgraced British celebrity/icon.
I LOVE this season. OK, 2 things to hold onto heading into the rest of the season: 1) Mary’s video message for Sherlock and 2) the girl and John ! Eeriest season yet!
Remember to subscribe to NupeFromDaVille now!
Rekkai's (NupeFromDaVille's) Deep Dives for this episode available - th-cam.com/video/Izs8H_TfNeQ/w-d-xo.html
Rekkai's (NupeFromDaVille's) Deep Dives for Sherlock available now! - th-cam.com/play/PLQ1om1IMqFrhRPCdAc4Gvp-uG-6pEGPhX.html&si=jBcGf134bCAjymOH
Make sure you join the Discord - discord.gg/ZKHV8dKcjQ
Syntell, while watching Sherlock fighting with the guy who wanted the Thatcher bust;
"I've seen that guy before, too."
Me, smirking because I know he hasn't gotten to that episode of Doctor Who yet. 🤫🤭😉
Yess I was gonna comment this I didn’t realise that was him at first 😂
A belter is basically anything that's good. For example, "Is The Penguin any good?" "Yes, it's an absolute belter of a show"
It is exactly like John, he had lots of short term relationships before Mary mostly because he put Sherlock first but also because he got bored. Same reason he likes Sherlock, he has always craved action. Mary was exciting at first but the domesticity of having a baby and not much adventure made him bored and wanting other excitement. That's who John is, it's been brought up multiple times, in multiple seasons. I think cause you like John you might be unintentionally blinding yourself/conveniently forgetting his negative traits.
Hmmmm... as a fan of John I hate to admit it, but you might be right :D Never thought about it from this perspective, I've always perceived John as an extremely loyal person because that's what we see in his relationship with Sherlock. But if we look at his relationships with other people, your reasoning makes absolute sense. Besides, I believe at this point he started to feel left out and betrayed by Mary and Sherlock with their constant quips that he can't keep up with them and is useless on cases. For someone who craves purpose as much as John, this must've hurt like hell. So that could also motivate him to turn to another person, who makes him feel valued and appreciated.
The Six Napoleons is a Sherlock Holmes story where the mystery is about a bunch of busts of Napoleon were being destroyed one by one. Sherlock Holmes figured out that there was a pearl treasure hidden inside one of them.
The outline of the 4th Season was already written (and most of the script) when the showrunners found out Martin and Amanda were seperating, (not yet known to public), but I garantee you, they didn't write her off for that reason. I assure you, Moffat and Gatiss kept on good terms with Amanda and Moffat even wrote a succesful theater play with Amanda playing the lead, directed by Gatiss. This isn't Hollywood, lesser drama here.
Baroque (sounded like barrock when he said it) was initially used derogatorily, it described art that was seen as bizarre and strange by critics favoring Neoclassicism. In this case, I think Sherlock means bizarre and overly elaborate.
That dude you vaguely recognised is Sacha Dhawan. He was Davos in Iron Fist, and he pops up in Doctor Who eventually. but, you know, spoilers ;)
In the books, Mary died too... so it was to reflect the original source material
She died during the Great Hiatus (what Sherlockians call the period from 1891-1894 when Watson believes Holmes to be dead). Mary and Watson meet when she is Holmes’ client.
I don't know if you guys realized but the first guy with the little Thatcher shrine in the beginning is Charles Edwards who plays Celebrimbor in The Rings of Power!
This episode was an emotional gamer changer episode, We see the threads of the tapestry but only in the last two episodes we will see the full picture within the tapestry. You both almost are looking at this through the grief we all experience when we know a beloved show is coming to an end. As a fan of Syntell and Nupe, love your passion!
Based on the original story The Six Napoleons.
The title brings on a certain type of nightmare.
Boris Karloff also tells the "Appointment in Samarra" story in the movie, _Targets._
Mary died in the stories. It was never explained how. She was simply dead in the next story.
She died between “The Final Problem” and “The Empty House” (at least, we assume she died). Theories include tuberculosis (some think she was not dead but away for extended treatment), heart condition (she faints during _The Sign of Four),_ and childbirth.
This episode always hits bc they were in an actual relationship irl that had ended, and you can kinda feel it when Marys dying
Next episode is one of my favorite episodes in this show and the best episode of season 4. I can’t wait for you to watch it.
I disagree about John texting another woman being out of character. John is known to be a womanizer in the original stories. Even in this show they show him changing girlfriends like he changes clothes and even mixed two of them once. Talking to the girl is not out of character. Going all the way in with the other girl would have been out of character, but texting her and getting happy over her noticing him is not. I also disagree about Sherlock being the reason Mary died. Mary literally almost killed Sherlock and he forgave her like nothing. It wasn’t his fault she took a bullet meant for him. He did protect Mary in every way he can. He even killed a person to save her and John. He was ready to take a suicide mission to protect them. He gave them everything. John has no right to blame Sherlock for anything. Mary is the assassin here and her past came back to bite her. Sherlock did nothing but protect and sacrifice. It’s heartbreaking that John will lash out at him and blame him. While I understand John wants someone to blame and take it out on, but Sherlock doesn’t deserve that. Mary did die in the original stories as well.
Some people think Watson in the stories is a womanizer, but this rests largely on his admiring descriptions of some women in the stories and a single quote about an experience (what kind?) of women over many countries and three separate continents, along with a bit of treading by Holmes. I never really bought into it. John on the show went through a lot of girlfriends before he found Mary, but I’m not sure that was because he was a womanizer either. Very subjective.
@@HuntingViolets He was mixing the women up. He was a flirt to almost every woman he fancied. It is in character to flirt with a woman who fancied him in this episode.
@@kindabatooni9314 I took none of them being memorable because his focus was more on Sherlock, but I don't really have a strong opinion about John on the show. I wasn't saying it was out of character for him, per se.
Regarding Sherlock's responsibility, I don't know if I fully agree with you. In the aquarium scene, he antagonises Amo despite Mary trying to temper him, which he doesn't understand. Ultimately, there *is* something he can't control, which is people's actions and reactions, but he does back Amo into a corner in his usual cocky manner.
@@Loweene_Ancalimon Yeah but even that wasn’t the reason behind Mary’s death. The bullet was meant for him. Sherlock has absolutely nothing to do with Mary jumping to her death. Sherlock wouldn’t even be in this situation if it wasn’t for Mary being a criminal in the first place. It’s completely illogical to blame Sherlock for anything regarding Mary. He could have easily ruined her life when she almost killed him. He did nothing but protect and sacrifice.
We still have people working as thatchers in the UK. Although not exactly commonplace, it's not unusual to see thatched houses in certain areas.
The weird half wall room in the therapist's is set in an attic of an old church or somewhere similar & probably purposely made that way to distract us from what's going on, or make the situation feel awkward. But I could be talking absolute "guff"- that's another British slang word meaning "nonsense" 😅
Baroque - old, antiquated, ornate.
Jack the Ripper wasn't a Sherlock Holmes story by Conan Doyle. The Whitechapel murders happened in 1888, incidentally, and Doyle would be unlikely to write about them fictionally. Holmes has gone against the Ripper in some pastiches, notably _Dust and Shadow_ by Lyndsay Faye and the movies, _A Study in Terror_ and _Murder by Decree._
Toby was a dog in _The Sign of Four._ He also appears in Nicholas Meyer's novel, _The Seven-Per-Cent Solution,_ which set off the Sherlockian pastiche boom in the 1970s.
I never understood the negativity this series got. I really enjoyed the latter half of episode 1 and love 2 and 3.
As for Martin Freeman and Amanda Abingdon, they remain civil so I doubt there was much of an issue for them to continue working together after separating.
I agree
I'm pretty sure Amanda Abbington was only ever supposed to be on the show temporarily.
They are building towards the end of the series. There are so many twists and turns buckle up
I want you guys to Chuck TV show so bad
P.S. Yeah, #Sherlock Season 4 rubs a lot of people the wrong way. (Some don't like Season 3, either.) I love all of it but I can still appreciate what you are saying about it.
After you finish Sherlock, I highly recommend Luther, another BBC show about a smart detective, though a bit of a corrupt one, with Idris Elba starring. It’s really good
The first story had the first broken Thatcher statue.
Also the writers were getting you to look the other way. They managed it to 😮
Some of John's behavior in this episode may be alluding back to his womanizing ways from original Arthur Conan Doyle canon where one of his nicknames from his service days was three contents Watson for his promiscuity spanning three continents.
On a side note, in canon, neither Mary or her child survived the pregnancy dying within three years of her meeting and marrying John, and considering that -
--in Sherlock, John and Mary had been in the their relationship during the two years Sherlock was away, and...
Series three spanning their wedding, her pregnancy, and Rosie's birth into season four can be assumed to reflect somewhere around two years (if Rosie's age can be estimated being between 4-6 mths), then her death on Sherlock fairly matches the length of their relationship and her death in ACD canon with their meeting in 1889, their dating/courting, marriage between 1891-1893, and confirmation of her death by 1894.
Admittedly, if Abbington and Freeman hadn't been divorced, it wouldn't have been a stretch to ignore that little bit of cannon, but ironically the canon timing somewhat fits.
To an extent, this ending for her is actually a bit kinder because unlike in canon, their child survives her.
I honestly pretend season 4 doesn't exist...love that hoodie Rekkai! Jesus saved my life too.
Yeah... book readers knew that Mary was going to die the moment we heard her name, it was only a matter of how. I wasn't crazy about them making her an ex-assasin, but I was willing to accept it for John's character development. The manner of her death here certainly sets up for the trippiest and most heartbreakingly uncomfortable episode in the series. For the record, I actually like season 4: just be willing to seriously suspend your disbelief for the finale.
Must say, I thought the next episode was stand out and reminded me of the 1st series. Twists, surprises, if one questionable moment - I'll let it go, but lowered the standard a notch.
This is the Season you go back and watch, so you can kick yourself for missing things.
As far as I can determine, Amanda Abbington and Martin Freeman were never married. They were partners and had children together, but didn't get married.
How do you two watch at the same time?
not my favorite episode, but such a solid show!
Straße = German for Street 👍
Yay, my guess was correct. Thanks! 😀
They certainly do still Thatch. 4 houses down my street are thatched. Lots of old houses / cottages are. New builds aren't.
@@siangoodwin867 yep, UK still has homes with thatched roofs
Mary dying was shocking. However, I think it was a good call to kill her off. The heart of this show is the relationship between Sherlock and John and that is what I want to see. While May was a good character, I felt it changed the dynamics too much. I also think that they possibly made Mary a bit too amazing at everything. I don't want anyone putting John in the shade!
Right up your Strasse
Strasse is german for street
Yeah, people should not be telling you how they feel about the series before you get there.
Strasse is German for street, right up your street.
ba·roque not Barack
[bəˈrōk, bəˈräk]
adjective
relating to or denoting a style of European architecture, music, and art of the 17th and 18th centuries that followed mannerism and is characterized by ornate detail. In architecture the period is exemplified by the palace of Versailles and by the work of Bernini in Italy. Major composers include Vivaldi, Bach, and Handel; Caravaggio and Rubens are important baroque artists.
L O L yeah but Sherlock/the Brits do pronounce it like Barack and that threw me for a second as well
The second pronunciation you listed isn’t like Barack?
Aha Sacha dawan, you will come to see him more
John Watson lost his wife in the original story. I love they way you are so lost it will make sense. Wait 😊
Three hours = 3 or more regular episode times.
You’ve probably seen the episode already but just do some research on the real life “Jimmy Saville” before watching episode 2. There’s a TON of references/nods to this disgraced British celebrity/icon.
There’s a documentary on Netflix that is chilling. Syntell might be interested in that (as he’s delved into one or two other true crime stories).
I LOVE this season. OK, 2 things to hold onto heading into the rest of the season: 1) Mary’s video message for Sherlock and 2) the girl and John ! Eeriest season yet!
There's a lot of us that have issues with Maggie Thatcher! 😉