Prince Imrahil is one of my favorite characters in the LOTR trilogy. He represents not only the full might of Gondor cavalry but the wisdom of the West. He is the character that made the difference, not just in defending Minas Thirith, but defending Faramir, crying: "Dol Amroth for Gondor! Dol Amroth for Faramir". Just imagine 700 full-armored knights charging against the Nazgul. EPIC!!! Not the mention, he is a healer and general and, unlike Denethor, immediately accepts Aragorn as King Elessar. As for the LOTR movie trilogy, since there was no Tom Bombadil, Elladan& Elrohir, there was just no point in putting him in the movie. Big shame, but still, Tolkien fans will always know the immense value of Dol Amroth ;)
If there ever was a last book in a series that could’ve been split into two movies, it’s The Return of The King. Would’ve been so amazing to see The Prince of Dol Amroth and the Drúedain.
It was a disappointment that The Prince Imrahil was not in Peter Jackson’s film version of Lord of the Rings. I had liked his character very much in the books. Thank you for finally addressing this. I had looked for someone to mention this omission.
I think Peter Jackson did an amazing job of making the huge LOTR novel into a trilogy of great movies! With his team's comprehensive knowledge of the lore allowed them to focus on the key plots and subplots. Inevitably such a huge book meant a lot of careful decisions as not everything and everyone would make it into the final cut! Regarding Prince Imrahil, how many readers even remember that character from the book? And of those how many missed him in The Return of the King?
I am sorry, but this is but one mistake (in my humble opinion) that Jackson made. Tom Bombadil and Prince Imrahil are but two characters that were sorely missed. The sons of Elrond should have had mentioned and portrayed in the movies, even if only in passing. I believe the 3 parts/movies could easily have been extended to 4 (maybe even 5?). I hope I live long enough for CGI to become cheap enough for independents to make videos so as to see a movie/video that accurately and fully portrays the "Lord of the Rings" as Tolkien last updated it. The Silmarillion would be beyond hope.
@@sandrabonner8208 it would have thrilled established Tolkien fans, but doing a “perfect” page to screen adaptation was physically and financially impossible. Doing justice to all of the characters would have stretched the film running times and might have hurt the box office draw-and if that had happened with ANY of the first trilogy, it would have killed any chance of the rest being made, as well as “The Hobbit” (that sort of thing is why you’re not likely to see a theatrical remake of “War and Peace”. The 1956 production is almost as hard to watch as the original novel is to read). Even just mentioning a lot of the names would likely have had the same effect-which is why Elendil, Gil Galad, etc. were seen, but not named along the way.
For some reason Jackson made Rohan the preminent kingdom of men in Middle-earth. The movie adaptaions included many minor characters from Rohan, but none from Gondor. Excluding Imrahil and the other captains of Gondor, as well as Beregond, his son Bergil, and Ioreth the healer was a poor decision.
Leaving him out of the movies was a shame, but it was understandable. His omission pales compared to the Grey Company, whose inclusion would have tied Aragorn's links to the north and south kingdoms. Plus they were damned cool. 'The Passing of the Grey Company' is one of my favourite chapters.
First off great video, secondly I don't know if it was a "mistake" per se not to have Prnice Imrahil in the movie but I certainly would've loved him in it. He's probably my favourite character throughout the Return of The King section. Similarly to Erkenbrand in the Two Towers I can see and understand why they were missing but it still would've been great to see them.
He was very memorable from the books, so I did miss him when watching the movies. I guess the target audience is people who may not have read that and it'd take a fair bit of effort to show who he was.
I don’t feel like the movies lacked by not having this prince in the final movie. That said, this is one of the great benefits of the Tolkien-based TH-cam channels: learning about characters who were not in the movies. As many of us first got into the works of Tolkien via the movies, that is our basis of knowledge, even if we ultimately went and read the books afterward (or, in my case, I read both The Hobbit and LOTR after the first LOTD movie). Thanks for continuing to expand our knowledge and love for the vast legendarium.
He's one of my favourite characters in the books. He pretty much takes over the battle of Pelennor fields and hands Sauron's forces a right thrashing with his Swan knights and leadership.
Gondor was not really known for its cavalry but the swan knights were the Elie of the elite and unlike the rest of gondor, from the top of its ruling class to even the bottom of the it's ordinary folk the gifts and heritage of numenor still lived within them including long life, wisdom and strength even down to the common soldier and civilian of dol amroth
Tolkien mentions Gondorian cavalry a number of times. Eärnur, the Last king of Gondor, is described as having his knights accompany him when he accepted Morgul's challenge to combat. Gondorian cavalry were in the expedition that helped Arvedui of Arthedain against the Witch King of Angmar.
Would have been fun to watch a scene from the perspective of Pippen as all the knights and their bannerlords entered the city. Gandalf could have been on the wall pointing them out. Pippen would have been enamored by their armor while helping to count the size of the various armies, while Gandalf was searching for more political allies inside the walls and brave heroes to combat foes outside. Perhaps Gandalf might have been weighing if Imrahil was positioning himself as a rival to Aragorn, for the throne of Gondor.
There's something deeper in Imrahil being cut. Jackson knew he was making a simplified version of the books, with simplified characters, and he wanted Gandalf and Aragorn to be the truly good hero-leaders. They save Gondor from stagnation and defeat. Having someone like Imrahil already there, the audience would probably be saying "why doesn't this Prince guy rule? Why do they need Aragorn to be king so desperately? Why do they need Gandalf to organise the battle?" Because of the decision for streamlined characters, the role of Imrahil would diminish the story being put on screen. Personally, I never liked the depiction of Gondor as weak, leaderless, stupid and naive. Doesn't really build with the wonder we're supposed to feel for this kingdom. Jackson clearly liked the Rohirim more.
I think this is mostly right. The depiction of Gondor in the movies really suffers from having no characters that we can really "root" for after Faramir is wounded. But I think PJ was fine with that, he wanted to show Gondor as a stagnant, weak kingdom in need of saving....no, I don't like it either.
While "weak" is a strong word, it can't be denied that Gondor is on a serious decline. And same goes for the term "leaderless". Denethor isn't exactly in mint condition. My dislike for the film interpretation comes more from how they depicted Denethor. Rather than showing how struggle and fighting Sauron has erroded the man ( and the place), we get the feeling it's simply because of an old fart's stupidity. It is, nonetheless, under "diminished" rule. None of the leaders from the Fiefdoms could take the throne, really, and crumbling central power would most likely lead to partition among these lords rather than the rise of Imrahil (or rather, his father more likely) to the rule of Gondor as a whole. They very much still need the return of the King as a way to come back from the brink. What I do understand in this is that it would be an absolute nightmare to put to film in a condensed manner.
I had this deep feeling when I kept listened to the Battle of Gondor music..it was very Epic but watching the movies and only saw what was in the movies and never read the book..now I realized this Prince was missing
@@robertnguyen2025 Yes. The movies don't quite capture the grandeur of Gondor. This is a kingdom that has stood for 3000 years and once dominated most of the south of Middle Earth, including Mordor.
Jackson wanted to finish film two at the end of helm's deep, and with Frodo approaching minas morgal. Because of that, he added in 45 minutes to the theatrical cut of scenes that were not in the books. He also massively extended the helms deep battle, which only covers about 10 pages. Because of this decision to fluff out film two, he had no room to cover the brilliant characters like Imrahil, and the Grey company, who could have been fresh additions to a heavy third film. Saying nothing of course about cutting the entire chapter about the march on the black gate or the ride of Aragorn to pelargir. It's a huge shame that Jackson made this decision. I think the original chapters cut from film three were far more interesting than the "battle of the wargs" or "Frodo is abducted to Osgiliath"
It´s complicated. I also miss these in the movies, but he was trying to make the viewers understand what was happening when, aka when Frodo was in Shelob´s lair and what the others were doing, so he moved it to the third film. Then he had to move things around. A shame, but that´s the trouble of adaptations. I also don´t think he massively extended the Helm´s Deep battle, I mean yes, it is a big "scene", but most of it happened in the book and it´s ok for Tolkien to write they raised ladders, in the movie you have to show it and it takes time.
Well, Jackson mucked up RotK so much in any case, that his inability to incorporate Imrahil is of little suprise. Still, a very interesting character. Great video!
According to another vid I've seen, prince imrahil is the blonde long haired man at minas tirath when faramir is brought to rest at the dead tree, after failing to reclaim osgiliath, in the return of the king movie. Theres a yr short called imrahil strong swordsman which has an image of the character from the movie rotk.
I think he WAS in the extended cut, but just a brief on screen appearances and one or two lines. He kind of looked like an elf with regular ears and some facial stubble.
all the defenders of Minas Tirith are depicted as being more or less identical. The 'reality' is a coming together of troops from all over Gondor. I think showing that would have created the impression of great peril, at the same time creating a platform for Dol Amroth. Even without a part for Imrahil it would have been a spectacle I'd have loved to have seen
Prince Imrahil is probably my favorite character in LOTR and I would have loved to see him in the film. However, given the large number of characters already in the film, I can understand why he was cut.
I have many beefs with the Jackson trilogy - the climax first, Faramir's portrayal second - but Imrahil is a character I hardly noticed the first four of the five times I read the books. I think cutting him was one of Jackson's easier and better choices. I learned a lot from this video.
I would have loved to see the Prince in the film. You know his armor would have been 🔥 but it's not a mistake. His presence would have made Aragorn look less special and he's of such high moral character that any deviation would have had fans in an uproar. Just look at the discussion about Faramir (Movie Faramir is awesome, dont @ me) He's a fantastic literary character but wouldn't have fit the film's goals. A LotR quality tv series could have had him, though.
I would have loved to have seen prince Imrahil. But it would have been better if he was introduced in the two Towers. But I think it was the best idea that PJ. Did what he did. As it would have made another side character.
I believe Peter Jackson joked in the commentary track for Return of the King that he should have gotten Arnold Schwarzenegger to wear a wig and armor and have a one line cameo and state that he was Prince Imrahil and that he was there to help.
The way he was described in the ROTK, moved me to tears of admiration. Well, not really, but I thought him to be Lordly...even as Lord's go. Hey, take it easy. I'm stoned.
In a movie you can only do so much. A paragraph of dialogue can add a superfluous, but interesting, bit of world building. In a movie or tv show that needs to be backed up by meaning. That’s why I think the written word is the superior form of world building.
I understand why they left him out of the movies it doesn't take away the impact he would of had and how awesome he was, I think it would of have been important to show more then 2 kingdom of Middle earth and I think it would of given much more impact to the corsair wars
This is a case of not only how something is adapted but the medium into which it is being adapted forces the hand of the adaptor. Now if this was a full fledged TV series with one or two chapters making up an episode with each of the 6 actual books being a season then you can have the Prince, but for 3 two to 3 hour films...
From my memory of the boot, Dol Amroth was a militarily significant person, but in plot terms wasn't a significant protagonist. The films did him about the appropriate amount of credit. It doesn't much matter how much coverage he gets in the book, what matters is his impact and I remember the name and the role and couldn't tell you a single thing he said/did...... so the film gave him a representative presence.
Yeah it's a shame they did not have him in Peter Jackson's adaptation.... I know many people are saying that it would have taken away from the army of the dead and the rohiram but I think they could have squeezed it in there and I think they could have squeezed in a few parts for the character and it wouldn't have crowded it I mean in an already crowded movie what's one more character LOL I mean it's kind of ridiculous not to put him in the movie I think it just would have added to the already incredible battle scene with three forces converging on sauron's forces so no it would not have taken away I think it would have added to it.... I mean when you're already going all out for a movie and it's already bloated go ahead and bloat a little more...
For as long as it was the third installment seemed a bit disjointed in places, even in the expanded editions. I think the addition of Prince Imrahil could have remedied this, if done properly. He could be a bit part yet still be played in a strong manner to show his import in Tolkien's writings. If one's only exposure to the story was the movies then they are left with a lot of questions regarding the various armies of men seen in the film, on both sides of Mordor.
He was there, but only for few seconds. Prince Imrahil came to Denethor with wounded(nearly dead) Faramir⬇️. th-cam.com/video/lSE4LcgQiwQ/w-d-xo.html (0:57 I think)
@@johanabigasova6770 "That character was invented for the film and named Irolas, but given a simplified version of one of Imrahil's roles; to retrieve Faramir after his doomed charge."
Prince Imrahil "outranked" Denethor. Denethor was steward by appointment, though hereditary, but a temporary title, he kept the city and its lands, this gave him place and rank to marry Imrahil's sister; Imrahil was a prince by blood and lineage. Note how easily the stewardship was moved from Faramir to Imrahil - this does not happen with a prince decended from Numenor in Tolkien's world.
'And so the companies came and were hailed and cheered and passed trough the Gate, men of the Outlands marching to defend the City of Gondor in a dark hour; but always too few, always less than hope looked for or need asked. The men of Ringlo Vale behind the son of their lord, Dervorin striding on foot: three hundreds. From the uplands of Morthond, the great Blackroot Vale, tall Duinhir with his sons, Duilin and Derufin, and five hundred bowmen. From the Anfalas, the Langstrand far away, a long line of men of many sorts, hunters and herdsmen and men of little villages, scantily equipped save for the household of Golasgil their lord. From Lamedon, a few grim hillmen without a captain. Fisher-folk of the Ethir, some hundred or more spared from the ships. Hirluin the Fair of the Green Hills from Pinnath Gelin with three hundreds of gallant green-clad men. And last and proudest, Imrahil, Prince of Dol Amroth, with gilded banners bearing his token of the Ship and silver Swan, and a company of knights in full harness riding grey horses; and behind them seven hundreds of men at arms, tall as lords, grey-eyed, dark-haired, signing as they came. ' That's my favourite passage from The Lord of The Rings, Removing Prince Imrahil from the Peter Jackson interpretation was indeed a shame.
I don't believe it was a mistake considering the length the trilogy already was. But that does not stop us wishing g we could of seen the Prince and his company come to life on the screen during the films. There is just too much to be put into movies from Tolkiens works to be put in such little time.
a think in the film you can see on the streets a glimps of baner of Dol Amroth.......is that mean that in Minas Thirit there alredy was someon form DA? Jackson only knows...
It would have been better to have him, the ghost army thing was sort of rush this ahead this movie is long. Gandalf could have used another calm head but the way they portrayed Denethor as an antagonist more than just battered from facing evil for so long wouldn't have made sense, needing Faramir on the verge of death for effect which someone off to the side healing him would have been odd.
We already have Theoden, Eomer and Faramir. If Peter want to include Prince Imrahil, the movie duration could extend into more than 3 hours. Yes, I understand all of the Lord of The Rings fans wouldn't mind, but how about casual audience? And, let's not discuss about movie budget.
I've read the books. Yet I don't understand them in the sense of more seasoned readers. Personally, I feel they really missed out on having him in there. However, it is ok for him to not be. However, I'd like to add one thing, however "pot stirring" it may be. Why not "remake" the movies, and add what wasn't? New cast, New everything. Peter Jackson's version is a 9.5/10 imo, so I'm casting no shade.
i believe that Lord of the Rings could be adapted into an incredible game of thrones type mini series.....in that adaptation imrahil would be a beloved and key character!
my reading of the appendixes indicates Mithrellias was not entirely "willing" in her 'marriage' to Imrazor as she winds up leaving him and her children long before there death and it is NOT accounted as one of the unions of eldar and edain (it would make the 4th one) which if 'legitimate' it should be; we also no from the story of Eol that under elven law a male could 'force' espousal on a female but in that case the male would not gain 'kinship'.
When one's uncle is direct kin of one's mother, then he is uncle by blood, not marriage. He would be uncle by marriage had he married a sister of Denethor, but it was Denethor who married Imrahil's sister.
@@BenFrayle I don't find it funny. Andy Serkis does dozens of characters in the audiobooks, and when you listen to him doing Imrahil, you really believe you're listening to a mature, middle-age, noble man. I am trying to convey that, and you're attempting humor that can't be recognized as such, so you need to mention it. how lame.
1:28 this is not quite correct. The House of Dol Amroth came to Middle Earth before the Downfall and established themselves in Belfalas. They were among the Númenorean colonists, but unlike the majority of colonists they remained Faithful. Elendil offered them the title of Prince in order to gain their loyalty. You also forgot to mention that the Princes of Dol Amroth spent most of their time fighting with the Corsairs. They are basically the reason the Corsairs needed the cover of Sauron's army in order to try an attack.
Unfortunately there is a massive amount of lore in the books that just couldn't be shown. If only Amazon actually CARED about the Lore then small characters like him could have been shown.
I would have loved to see Imrahil in the LOTR movies, however I feel, like was stated, he was left out of the cast because it was already so bloated. In much the same way that Erkenbrand was left out of the Rohan scenes, it was just tooooo many characters for a movie. But for me, I would have loved to see the true battle of the Pelennor Fields play out as in the book instead of the Army of the Dead showing up to swiftly put an end to the battle.
Well there have been many good points, but he is, so strong and loyal, that it shows the blend of Elves and Nuemenorions, in that way its fleshes out many things, I think it was a mistake and expedient , and one of the few bitches I have with Jacksons Lord LOTR...The Princes of Dol Amorth always had my respect , from the first time I read, summer of 1969
I wasn’t a mistake. People have to remember that the film needed to have a wider audience than just fans of the books. Adding yet another character such as the prince or Tom Bombadill would just confuse the casual viewer who isn’t as deeply invested in the story as someone who has enjoyed the books. The cast would have been too bloated.
Why do these movie corporations spend millions on buying the rights to a book and then totally rip it apart?! I am not saying that Jackson did not make three good movies, they are just not like what Tolkien wrote about. I could go on about the hundreds of changes but won’t. It seems that they could have hired some well known actors to play some of those important characters of that Tolkien wrote about just as cameo parts….but then they would not have been able to change so much of Tolkien’s book.
Unfortunately, and painfully, the story *has* to be simplified when going from epic novel (especially one of Tolkienish scope and depth) into a movie. As long as such a surgery can be felt to have been done with the due respect, it can be accepted as a necessary evil. Thankfully, adaptation is not replacement, the movies don't erase the books, and characters such Imrahil and Tom Bombadil are still just as alive and well as when Tolkien wrote them.
I have no issue with his exclusion. As a fan of the books and the world at large he would have been welcome into the movie by most of us, but his roles in the book are alot less pivotal and were instead just delegated to established characters without missing out on much. I think there are larger issues in the movies than missing side characters
One of my favorite characters. The concept art book for Return of the King had concept art of The Prince, but I understand why he was it included. Mainly for the bloated cast.
I think, to make him work, he, and other leaders/generals of Gondor would have needed to be introduced earlier than they were in the books. Like early name drops by Borimer and Farimer. Then maybe have them there when Gandalf arrives. But that would have been a lot of $$$ with casting, costumes, extras.
@@nickschulte3915 Yep. Lord of The Rings movie budget reach more than 200 million dollars. I am not sure the studio willing to spend more money than that. 😂 Twenty years ago, you made a movie, with 200 million dollars budget. Except for James Cameron, no studio want to spend that much. 😂
Greetings! I love nearly every charakter in the books. But for a movie it's to much. If it was a TV Series you could put everyone in. Let's take David Lynch's Dune as an example. He omits a lot of characters. But there are still so many that some only say a sentence or two and then fizzle out for the rest of the film.
I can understand Imrahil not being part of the movies, though I might have preferred his inclusion. The Jackson adaptation, while great overall, made multiple mistakes and narrowly avoided others, that being said, Tolkien's own constant retconning of his works is no less irritating than the stuff we can nitpick from where the movies deviate from the books.
"important, if not minor character" That wording is logically incorrect, as important is obviously not related to minor, and he's obviously minor anyway (despite supposed importance).
Definitely a mistake to leave the Prince out of the Return of the King. This is along with several other beloved characters many had hoped to experience on the big screen.
Here’s how I would have included him in the film, during the muster of Rohan scene in which Aragorn speaks with Elrond and gets Anduril there would be notably different dialogue, “You’re outnumbered, Aragorn. You need more men.” Elrond says. “There are none.” Aragorn replies. “Not true.”, says Elrond. “There is a garrison of reinforcements stationed along the river south of Gondor at the harbor of Pelargir the steward Denethor has failed to muster. 500 Gondorian soldiers under the command of Prince Imrahil could be in the city within two days, but the river passage is patrolled by the Corsairs of Umbar.” (Insert shot of the garrison stationed at the harbor of Pelargir, Imrahill and his men, and the corsairs.) Aragorn replies, “Even if Prince Imrahil and his reinforcements could be brought to Minas Tirith, 500 soldiers alone could not turn the tide of battle.” Elrond then says, “There are also those who dwell in the mountain…” Aragorn realizes he is speaking of the Army of the Dead. “The Oathbreakers? Murderers, traitors. You would call upon them to fight? They believe in nothing, they answer to no one.” Elrond replies, “They will answer to the King of Gondor!” *whips out sword* “Anduril, the flame of the west!“ exclaims Elrond. “The man who wields this sword can summon the army of the dead to assist his forces in battle! Call upon the Oathbreakers to drive the mercenaries from their black ships, then use those ships to transport Gondor’s reinforcements into Minas Tirith. Be they living or dead, all men will answer to the man who wields the sword of the king! I have already dispatched an emissary by horseback to the garrison south of Gondor, Prince Imrahill and his knights will be expecting your arrival soon. Put aside the ranger, become who you were born to be.”
Prince Imrahil is one of my favorite characters in the LOTR trilogy.
He represents not only the full might of Gondor cavalry but the wisdom of the West. He is the character that made the difference, not just in defending Minas Thirith, but defending Faramir, crying: "Dol Amroth for Gondor! Dol Amroth for Faramir". Just imagine 700 full-armored knights charging against the Nazgul. EPIC!!!
Not the mention, he is a healer and general and, unlike Denethor, immediately accepts Aragorn as King Elessar.
As for the LOTR movie trilogy, since there was no Tom Bombadil, Elladan& Elrohir, there was just no point in putting him in the movie. Big shame, but still, Tolkien fans will always know the immense value of Dol Amroth ;)
If there ever was a last book in a series that could’ve been split into two movies, it’s The Return of The King. Would’ve been so amazing to see The Prince of Dol Amroth and the Drúedain.
Many praises to the Silver Swan of Dol-Amroth! Some of the best knights in Middle Earth. Keep up the great work Mellon! "ECTHELION!"
It was a disappointment that The Prince Imrahil was not in Peter Jackson’s film version of Lord of the Rings. I had liked his character very much in the books. Thank you for finally addressing this. I had looked for someone to mention this omission.
I think Peter Jackson did an amazing job of making the huge LOTR novel into a trilogy of great movies! With his team's comprehensive knowledge of the lore allowed them to focus on the key plots and subplots. Inevitably such a huge book meant a lot of careful decisions as not everything and everyone would make it into the final cut! Regarding Prince Imrahil, how many readers even remember that character from the book? And of those how many missed him in The Return of the King?
An unfortunate but easy to understand cut for the films
kind of like Khan-Buri-Khan and his crucial intelligence for the Rohirrim?
JRR was a signals officer, he knew the value of info on your enemy.
Two things can be true. The Jackson Trilogy is immaculate. And I love and missed Prince Imrahil in them.
I am sorry, but this is but one mistake (in my humble opinion) that Jackson made. Tom Bombadil and Prince Imrahil are but two characters that were sorely missed. The sons of Elrond should have had mentioned and portrayed in the movies, even if only in passing. I believe the 3 parts/movies could easily have been extended to 4 (maybe even 5?). I hope I live long enough for CGI to become cheap enough for independents to make videos so as to see a movie/video that accurately and fully portrays the "Lord of the Rings" as Tolkien last updated it. The Silmarillion would be beyond hope.
@@sandrabonner8208 it would have thrilled established Tolkien fans, but doing a “perfect” page to screen adaptation was physically and financially impossible. Doing justice to all of the characters would have stretched the film running times and might have hurt the box office draw-and if that had happened with ANY of the first trilogy, it would have killed any chance of the rest being made, as well as “The Hobbit” (that sort of thing is why you’re not likely to see a theatrical remake of “War and Peace”. The 1956 production is almost as hard to watch as the original novel is to read).
Even just mentioning a lot of the names would likely have had the same effect-which is why Elendil, Gil Galad, etc. were seen, but not named along the way.
For some reason Jackson made Rohan the preminent kingdom of men in Middle-earth. The movie adaptaions included many minor characters from Rohan, but none from Gondor. Excluding Imrahil and the other captains of Gondor, as well as Beregond, his son Bergil, and Ioreth the healer was a poor decision.
Leaving him out of the movies was a shame, but it was understandable. His omission pales compared to the Grey Company, whose inclusion would have tied Aragorn's links to the north and south kingdoms. Plus they were damned cool. 'The Passing of the Grey Company' is one of my favourite chapters.
Nah Shelob's lair.
First off great video, secondly I don't know if it was a "mistake" per se not to have Prnice Imrahil in the movie but I certainly would've loved him in it. He's probably my favourite character throughout the Return of The King section. Similarly to Erkenbrand in the Two Towers I can see and understand why they were missing but it still would've been great to see them.
He was very memorable from the books, so I did miss him when watching the movies. I guess the target audience is people who may not have read that and it'd take a fair bit of effort to show who he was.
Of all the characters left out, he was absolutely the most missed. I would have loved to see him in the movie.
I don’t feel like the movies lacked by not having this prince in the final movie. That said, this is one of the great benefits of the Tolkien-based TH-cam channels: learning about characters who were not in the movies. As many of us first got into the works of Tolkien via the movies, that is our basis of knowledge, even if we ultimately went and read the books afterward (or, in my case, I read both The Hobbit and LOTR after the first LOTD movie). Thanks for continuing to expand our knowledge and love for the vast legendarium.
He's one of my favourite characters in the books. He pretty much takes over the battle of Pelennor fields and hands Sauron's forces a right thrashing with his Swan knights and leadership.
Gondor was not really known for its cavalry but the swan knights were the Elie of the elite and unlike the rest of gondor, from the top of its ruling class to even the bottom of the it's ordinary folk the gifts and heritage of numenor still lived within them including long life, wisdom and strength even down to the common soldier and civilian of dol amroth
Tolkien mentions Gondorian cavalry a number of times. Eärnur, the Last king of Gondor, is described as having his knights accompany him when he accepted Morgul's challenge to combat. Gondorian cavalry were in the expedition that helped Arvedui of Arthedain against the Witch King of Angmar.
@@urseliusurgel4365 sigh.
@@fricholas7608 mutters, semi-audibly.
Would have been fun to watch a scene from the perspective of Pippen as all the knights and their bannerlords entered the city. Gandalf could have been on the wall pointing them out. Pippen would have been enamored by their armor while helping to count the size of the various armies, while Gandalf was searching for more political allies inside the walls and brave heroes to combat foes outside. Perhaps Gandalf might have been weighing if Imrahil was positioning himself as a rival to Aragorn, for the throne of Gondor.
Excellent Information yet again.
Better question to ask: Who could even play this cool guy? Not Sean Bean for sure since he's already Boromir.
There's something deeper in Imrahil being cut.
Jackson knew he was making a simplified version of the books, with simplified characters, and he wanted Gandalf and Aragorn to be the truly good hero-leaders. They save Gondor from stagnation and defeat.
Having someone like Imrahil already there, the audience would probably be saying "why doesn't this Prince guy rule? Why do they need Aragorn to be king so desperately? Why do they need Gandalf to organise the battle?"
Because of the decision for streamlined characters, the role of Imrahil would diminish the story being put on screen.
Personally, I never liked the depiction of Gondor as weak, leaderless, stupid and naive. Doesn't really build with the wonder we're supposed to feel for this kingdom. Jackson clearly liked the Rohirim more.
I think this is mostly right. The depiction of Gondor in the movies really suffers from having no characters that we can really "root" for after Faramir is wounded. But I think PJ was fine with that, he wanted to show Gondor as a stagnant, weak kingdom in need of saving....no, I don't like it either.
While "weak" is a strong word, it can't be denied that Gondor is on a serious decline. And same goes for the term "leaderless". Denethor isn't exactly in mint condition. My dislike for the film interpretation comes more from how they depicted Denethor. Rather than showing how struggle and fighting Sauron has erroded the man ( and the place), we get the feeling it's simply because of an old fart's stupidity. It is, nonetheless, under "diminished" rule. None of the leaders from the Fiefdoms could take the throne, really, and crumbling central power would most likely lead to partition among these lords rather than the rise of Imrahil (or rather, his father more likely) to the rule of Gondor as a whole. They very much still need the return of the King as a way to come back from the brink. What I do understand in this is that it would be an absolute nightmare to put to film in a condensed manner.
That is not deeper, that is just at length explaining the simplification reason.
I had this deep feeling when I kept listened to the Battle of Gondor music..it was very Epic but watching the movies and only saw what was in the movies and never read the book..now I realized this Prince was missing
@@robertnguyen2025 Yes. The movies don't quite capture the grandeur of Gondor. This is a kingdom that has stood for 3000 years and once dominated most of the south of Middle Earth, including Mordor.
Jackson wanted to finish film two at the end of helm's deep, and with Frodo approaching minas morgal. Because of that, he added in 45 minutes to the theatrical cut of scenes that were not in the books. He also massively extended the helms deep battle, which only covers about 10 pages.
Because of this decision to fluff out film two, he had no room to cover the brilliant characters like Imrahil, and the Grey company, who could have been fresh additions to a heavy third film. Saying nothing of course about cutting the entire chapter about the march on the black gate or the ride of Aragorn to pelargir.
It's a huge shame that Jackson made this decision. I think the original chapters cut from film three were far more interesting than the "battle of the wargs" or "Frodo is abducted to Osgiliath"
It´s complicated. I also miss these in the movies, but he was trying to make the viewers understand what was happening when, aka when Frodo was in Shelob´s lair and what the others were doing, so he moved it to the third film. Then he had to move things around. A shame, but that´s the trouble of adaptations. I also don´t think he massively extended the Helm´s Deep battle, I mean yes, it is a big "scene", but most of it happened in the book and it´s ok for Tolkien to write they raised ladders, in the movie you have to show it and it takes time.
Well, Jackson mucked up RotK so much in any case, that his inability to incorporate Imrahil is of little suprise. Still, a very interesting character. Great video!
Fun to hear of him when Imrahil is an complete new character for me :)
According to another vid I've seen, prince imrahil is the blonde long haired man at minas tirath when faramir is brought to rest at the dead tree, after failing to reclaim osgiliath, in the return of the king movie.
Theres a yr short called imrahil strong swordsman which has an image of the character from the movie rotk.
I think he WAS in the extended cut, but just a brief on screen appearances and one or two lines. He kind of looked like an elf with regular ears and some facial stubble.
all the defenders of Minas Tirith are depicted as being more or less identical. The 'reality' is a coming together of troops from all over Gondor. I think showing that would have created the impression of great peril, at the same time creating a platform for Dol Amroth. Even without a part for Imrahil it would have been a spectacle I'd have loved to have seen
Prince Imrahil is probably my favorite character in LOTR and I would have loved to see him in the film. However, given the large number of characters already in the film, I can understand why he was cut.
Most importantly he was in the book. A great character, honourable and courageous.
Good you make an video about the athor princes and Nobels of gondor
As BFME said, KNIGHTS OF THE SILVER SWAN!!
I have many beefs with the Jackson trilogy - the climax first, Faramir's portrayal second - but Imrahil is a character I hardly noticed the first four of the five times I read the books. I think cutting him was one of Jackson's easier and better choices. I learned a lot from this video.
I would have loved to see the Prince in the film. You know his armor would have been 🔥 but it's not a mistake.
His presence would have made Aragorn look less special and he's of such high moral character that any deviation would have had fans in an uproar. Just look at the discussion about Faramir (Movie Faramir is awesome, dont @ me)
He's a fantastic literary character but wouldn't have fit the film's goals. A LotR quality tv series could have had him, though.
This was awesome.
I would have loved to have seen prince Imrahil. But it would have been better if he was introduced in the two Towers. But I think it was the best idea that PJ. Did what he did. As it would have made another side character.
I believe Peter Jackson joked in the commentary track for Return of the King that he should have gotten Arnold Schwarzenegger to wear a wig and armor and have a one line cameo and state that he was Prince Imrahil and that he was there to help.
The way he was described in the ROTK, moved me to tears of admiration. Well, not really, but I thought him to be Lordly...even as Lord's go. Hey, take it easy. I'm stoned.
In a movie you can only do so much. A paragraph of dialogue can add a superfluous, but interesting, bit of world building. In a movie or tv show that needs to be backed up by meaning. That’s why I think the written word is the superior form of world building.
Was an instant and great favourite when I first read the LOTR many years ago.
I understand why they left him out of the movies it doesn't take away the impact he would of had and how awesome he was, I think it would of have been important to show more then 2 kingdom of Middle earth and I think it would of given much more impact to the corsair wars
In the tabletop battle game, this guy is a BEAST.
Basically the same stats as Aragorn.
This is a case of not only how something is adapted but the medium into which it is being adapted forces the hand of the adaptor. Now if this was a full fledged TV series with one or two chapters making up an episode with each of the 6 actual books being a season then you can have the Prince, but for 3 two to 3 hour films...
From my memory of the boot, Dol Amroth was a militarily significant person, but in plot terms wasn't a significant protagonist. The films did him about the appropriate amount of credit. It doesn't much matter how much coverage he gets in the book, what matters is his impact and I remember the name and the role and couldn't tell you a single thing he said/did...... so the film gave him a representative presence.
Yeah it's a shame they did not have him in Peter Jackson's adaptation.... I know many people are saying that it would have taken away from the army of the dead and the rohiram but I think they could have squeezed it in there and I think they could have squeezed in a few parts for the character and it wouldn't have crowded it I mean in an already crowded movie what's one more character LOL I mean it's kind of ridiculous not to put him in the movie I think it just would have added to the already incredible battle scene with three forces converging on sauron's forces so no it would not have taken away I think it would have added to it.... I mean when you're already going all out for a movie and it's already bloated go ahead and bloat a little more...
An unfortunate but easy to understand cut for the films
Seems like a pretty important character.
Everyone who guessed right in the community post RISE UP. Called it
My favorite BFME2 shock troops.
They should have added him the ride beside the White Horse banner the White Horse and the white swan Banner riding side-by-side B would be it Epic
For as long as it was the third installment seemed a bit disjointed in places, even in the expanded editions. I think the addition of Prince Imrahil could have remedied this, if done properly. He could be a bit part yet still be played in a strong manner to show his import in Tolkien's writings. If one's only exposure to the story was the movies then they are left with a lot of questions regarding the various armies of men seen in the film, on both sides of Mordor.
One of my favorite characters in the trilogy. Fearless and loyal. They did him dirty by not having in the movies.
He was there, but only for few seconds.
Prince Imrahil came to Denethor with wounded(nearly dead) Faramir⬇️.
th-cam.com/video/lSE4LcgQiwQ/w-d-xo.html (0:57 I think)
@@johanabigasova6770 Go on. Which scene was he in? Cheers.
@@Greenmick6982 on TH-cam is video LOTR The Return of the King Denethor gives in to despair. There (0:57) is Prince Imrahil.
It's an unfortunate but very understandable cut.
@@johanabigasova6770 "That character was invented for the film and named Irolas, but given a simplified version of one of Imrahil's roles; to retrieve Faramir after his doomed charge."
Amazing..never hear of him..going have to read the Damn Book !!
Potentially great part, but to include Imrahil would have required Return of the King being split into two films, with 6-8 hours of total runtime.
Prince Imrahil "outranked" Denethor. Denethor was steward by appointment, though hereditary, but a temporary title, he kept the city and its lands, this gave him place and rank to marry Imrahil's sister; Imrahil was a prince by blood and lineage. Note how easily the stewardship was moved from Faramir to Imrahil - this does not happen with a prince decended from Numenor in Tolkien's world.
'And so the companies came and were hailed and cheered and passed trough the Gate, men of the Outlands marching to defend the City of Gondor in a dark hour; but always too few, always less than hope looked for or need asked. The men of Ringlo Vale behind the son of their lord, Dervorin striding on foot: three hundreds. From the uplands of Morthond, the great Blackroot Vale, tall Duinhir with his sons, Duilin and Derufin, and five hundred bowmen. From the Anfalas, the Langstrand far away, a long line of men of many sorts, hunters and herdsmen and men of little villages, scantily equipped save for the household of Golasgil their lord. From Lamedon, a few grim hillmen without a captain. Fisher-folk of the Ethir, some hundred or more spared from the ships. Hirluin the Fair of the Green Hills from Pinnath Gelin with three hundreds of gallant green-clad men. And last and proudest, Imrahil, Prince of Dol Amroth, with gilded banners bearing his token of the Ship and silver Swan, and a company of knights in full harness riding grey horses; and behind them seven hundreds of men at arms, tall as lords, grey-eyed, dark-haired, signing as they came. '
That's my favourite passage from The Lord of The Rings, Removing Prince Imrahil from the Peter Jackson interpretation was indeed a shame.
The Swan Knights are one of my two armies for the LotR Table Top.
He could have been the Boba Fett of the LotR movies. Super awesome looking guy in the background, but we don’t know much about him.
I would say both. It would have been great to see him and the swan knights, but the movies were already quite full.
I would love to see him but there would be way to many characters and not enough time
Should have at least added him in the extended versions.
Was he not supposed to be the blode guy telling Gandalf that Denethor warned about "this" for a long time?
"I hold the Lord Aragorn as my liege Lord, and to me, his wish is my command"
I don't believe it was a mistake considering the length the trilogy already was. But that does not stop us wishing g we could of seen the Prince and his company come to life on the screen during the films. There is just too much to be put into movies from Tolkiens works to be put in such little time.
Totally missed out wqithout Imrahil in the movies.
Without yet more time, like a miniseries, I don't see how they could have done him justice, like Glorfindel. A shame, but entirely understandable.
a think in the film you can see on the streets a glimps of baner of Dol Amroth.......is that mean that in Minas Thirit there alredy was someon form DA? Jackson only knows...
It would have been better to have him, the ghost army thing was sort of rush this ahead this movie is long. Gandalf could have used another calm head but the way they portrayed Denethor as an antagonist more than just battered from facing evil for so long wouldn't have made sense, needing Faramir on the verge of death for effect which someone off to the side healing him would have been odd.
should have had used the Grey Company in attack and used Prince Imrahil in at least a few scenes
We already have Theoden, Eomer and Faramir. If Peter want to include Prince Imrahil, the movie duration could extend into more than 3 hours.
Yes, I understand all of the Lord of The Rings fans wouldn't mind, but how about casual audience?
And, let's not discuss about movie budget.
I've read the books. Yet I don't understand them in the sense of more seasoned readers.
Personally, I feel they really missed out on having him in there.
However, it is ok for him to not be.
However, I'd like to add one thing, however "pot stirring" it may be.
Why not "remake" the movies, and add what wasn't?
New cast, New everything.
Peter Jackson's version is a 9.5/10 imo, so I'm casting no shade.
i believe that Lord of the Rings could be adapted into an incredible game of thrones type mini series.....in that adaptation imrahil would be a beloved and key character!
A man of high quality indeed!
my reading of the appendixes indicates Mithrellias was not entirely "willing" in her 'marriage' to Imrazor as she winds up leaving him and her children long before there death and it is NOT accounted as one of the unions of eldar and edain (it would make the 4th one) which if 'legitimate' it should be; we also no from the story of Eol that under elven law a male could 'force' espousal on a female but in that case the male would not gain 'kinship'.
Interesting most of lord of the Rings video hardly ever mention a 4th marriage of man and elf.
When one's uncle is direct kin of one's mother, then he is uncle by blood, not marriage. He would be uncle by marriage had he married a sister of Denethor, but it was Denethor who married Imrahil's sister.
Andy Serkis does Imrahil's voice perfectly
How do you know?
@@BenFrayle because I listened to the audiobook he narrated...smfh...
@@hurin_thalion11 Imrahil recorded an audiobook?
What I mean is, how do you know what Imrahil sounded like to say that Serkis did his voice perfectly (note: this is a 'joke')
@@BenFrayle I don't find it funny. Andy Serkis does dozens of characters in the audiobooks, and when you listen to him doing Imrahil, you really believe you're listening to a mature, middle-age, noble man. I am trying to convey that, and you're attempting humor that can't be recognized as such, so you need to mention it. how lame.
1:28 this is not quite correct. The House of Dol Amroth came to Middle Earth before the Downfall and established themselves in Belfalas. They were among the Númenorean colonists, but unlike the majority of colonists they remained Faithful. Elendil offered them the title of Prince in order to gain their loyalty. You also forgot to mention that the Princes of Dol Amroth spent most of their time fighting with the Corsairs. They are basically the reason the Corsairs needed the cover of Sauron's army in order to try an attack.
Prince Imrahil’s daughter Lothíriel married Eomer of Rohan and became queen of Rohan
Probably for the best he was left out, as they would have to have also cast for the sons of Elrond.
I got an video idea did celebrimbor die of the doom of mandos
Unfortunately there is a massive amount of lore in the books that just couldn't be shown. If only Amazon actually CARED about the Lore then small characters like him could have been shown.
I would have loved to see Imrahil in the LOTR movies, however I feel, like was stated, he was left out of the cast because it was already so bloated. In much the same way that Erkenbrand was left out of the Rohan scenes, it was just tooooo many characters for a movie. But for me, I would have loved to see the true battle of the Pelennor Fields play out as in the book instead of the Army of the Dead showing up to swiftly put an end to the battle.
Budget Cuts, the Bane and true archfoe of all minor characters.
He took charge of the battle of pelanor fields?
Well there have been many good points, but he is, so strong and loyal, that it shows the blend of Elves and Nuemenorions, in that way its fleshes out many things, I think it was a mistake and expedient , and one of the few bitches I have with Jacksons Lord LOTR...The Princes of Dol Amorth always had my respect , from the first time I read, summer of 1969
As a short guy, I guess I most identify with the Dwarves.
I use him in all my lotr lcg decks so I can have my own head cannon of him in adventures he wasn't apart of in the movies
If Prince Imrahil was in the movies I say Gary Oldman would of been a good choice for this character.
I wasn’t a mistake. People have to remember that the film needed to have a wider audience than just fans of the books. Adding yet another character such as the prince or Tom Bombadill would just confuse the casual viewer who isn’t as deeply invested in the story as someone who has enjoyed the books. The cast would have been too bloated.
Why do these movie corporations spend millions on
buying the rights to a book and then totally rip it apart?! I am not saying that Jackson did not make three good movies, they are just not like what Tolkien wrote about. I could go on about the hundreds of changes but won’t.
It seems that they could have hired some well known actors to play some of those important characters of that Tolkien wrote about just as cameo parts….but then they would not have been able to change so much of Tolkien’s book.
Unfortunately, and painfully, the story *has* to be simplified when going from epic novel (especially one of Tolkienish scope and depth) into a movie. As long as such a surgery can be felt to have been done with the due respect, it can be accepted as a necessary evil.
Thankfully, adaptation is not replacement, the movies don't erase the books, and characters such Imrahil and Tom Bombadil are still just as alive and well as when Tolkien wrote them.
We might get it some day. With how movies are being redone it's almost time for a new LOTR set of movies.
And the world will cry when it's made if anything made in the last few years is what we get.
am time , roth ?? wheel or rath pronounced "raw" .. rath being a special site to the gaels !
I have no issue with his exclusion. As a fan of the books and the world at large he would have been welcome into the movie by most of us, but his roles in the book are alot less pivotal and were instead just delegated to established characters without missing out on much. I think there are larger issues in the movies than missing side characters
One of my favorite characters. The concept art book for Return of the King had concept art of The Prince, but I understand why he was it included. Mainly for the bloated cast.
I think, to make him work, he, and other leaders/generals of Gondor would have needed to be introduced earlier than they were in the books. Like early name drops by Borimer and Farimer. Then maybe have them there when Gandalf arrives. But that would have been a lot of $$$ with casting, costumes, extras.
@@nickschulte3915 Yep. Lord of The Rings movie budget reach more than 200 million dollars.
I am not sure the studio willing to spend more money than that. 😂
Twenty years ago, you made a movie, with 200 million dollars budget.
Except for James Cameron, no studio want to spend that much. 😂
Greetings!
I love nearly every charakter in the books.
But for a movie it's to much.
If it was a TV Series you could put everyone in.
Let's take David Lynch's Dune as an example. He omits a lot of characters. But there are still so many that some only say a sentence or two and then fizzle out for the rest of the film.
Prince Imrahil was the role Sean Connery should have been offered instead of Gandalf
Video 214
Elf gets lost in the woods? Really?
I can understand Imrahil not being part of the movies, though I might have preferred his inclusion. The Jackson adaptation, while great overall, made multiple mistakes and narrowly avoided others, that being said, Tolkien's own constant retconning of his works is no less irritating than the stuff we can nitpick from where the movies deviate from the books.
"important, if not minor character"
That wording is logically incorrect, as important is obviously not related to minor, and he's obviously minor anyway (despite supposed importance).
I don't think he was white. Read the book.
Definitely a mistake to leave the Prince out of the Return of the King. This is along with several other beloved characters many had hoped to experience on the big screen.
Hated the movies - rather what jackson and his idiots did to them.
Here’s how I would have included him in the film, during the muster of Rohan scene in which Aragorn speaks with Elrond and gets Anduril there would be notably different dialogue, “You’re outnumbered, Aragorn. You need more men.” Elrond says. “There are none.” Aragorn replies. “Not true.”, says Elrond. “There is a garrison of reinforcements stationed along the river south of Gondor at the harbor of Pelargir the steward Denethor has failed to muster. 500 Gondorian soldiers under the command of Prince Imrahil could be in the city within two days, but the river passage is patrolled by the Corsairs of Umbar.” (Insert shot of the garrison stationed at the harbor of Pelargir, Imrahill and his men, and the corsairs.) Aragorn replies, “Even if Prince Imrahil and his reinforcements could be brought to Minas Tirith, 500 soldiers alone could not turn the tide of battle.” Elrond then says, “There are also those who dwell in the mountain…” Aragorn realizes he is speaking of the Army of the Dead. “The Oathbreakers? Murderers, traitors. You would call upon them to fight? They believe in nothing, they answer to no one.” Elrond replies, “They will answer to the King of Gondor!” *whips out sword*
“Anduril, the flame of the west!“ exclaims Elrond. “The man who wields this sword can summon the army of the dead to assist his forces in battle! Call upon the Oathbreakers to drive the mercenaries from their black ships, then use those ships to transport Gondor’s reinforcements into Minas Tirith. Be they living or dead, all men will answer to the man who wields the sword of the king! I have already dispatched an emissary by horseback to the garrison south of Gondor, Prince Imrahill and his knights will be expecting your arrival soon. Put aside the ranger, become who you were born to be.”
Alas the budget.
And then they could have used the oathbreakers just to defeat the corsairs at Pelagir and have Aragorn charge in with the Knights of the Silver Swan.