The Blue Battery, for a sustainable and independent world | Mei Nelissen | TEDxUtrecht
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 มิ.ย. 2024
- Our energy network is extremely vulnerable; we are completely depended on energy generated by power stations, one attack on those and we lose our electricity and with that most of our power. Moreover, more energy is generated than is directly needed, the surplus is then wasted.
Nineteen year-old Mei Nelissen has, together
with a research group, come up with the Blue
Battery, a device which enables us to store and generate electrical energy safely and
more sustainable.
Nineteen year old Mei Nelissen is studying Biology. In her final year of high school, she did a research project with Lotte van der Velde and Eline Jagtenberg and in cooperation with Wetsus, which has led to the invention of The Blue Battery. The Blue Battery enables us to store and generate electrical energy safely and sustainable. Therefore sustainable energy can be even more sustainable and we can all have power over our driving force: electricity.
This talk was given at a TEDx event using the TED conference format but independently organized by a local community. Learn more at ted.com/tedx
Brilliant! I am very excited to see the Blue battery used in homes and maybe even electric vehicles one day - thank you for your passion to change the world.
Hi everyone, this is Mei Nelissen.
I've read some of you are interested to learn more about the battery and the scientific proof/background.
Wetsus has recently published an article about the battery:
Egmond, W. J., et al. "Performance of an environmentally benign acid base flow battery at high energy density."
International Journal of Energy Research.
I hope you'll enjoy the article :)
No link?
Thank you for the reference to the paper. Your presentation was thoughtful. The barrier between halves of the battery is the central interest. Do you have any more information on its construction?
Thanks for commenting Mei. It's a fascinating technology
Thank you for the link to the experimental data. The benefits of using environmentally friendly solutions are obvious. The energy density is moderate but not a problem in a fixed environment like a home or business that may have the room for less energy density. The benefit of fast charging being better cannot be overlooked either, as most batteries are adversely affected by fast charges. I believe the real solution to a secure energy future is in the hands of researchers who can design and build the energy storage.
THANKS MEI !!
I don’t know about the life cycle of the battery, or the efficiency of the the energy conversion, but overall a very good concept that is worthy of notice.
ASTONISHING !!!!….A few more of these young minds and we’ll be traveling @ super-luminal velocity !!!
Questions are:
How much energy can it store per unit weight or volume?
(In proper units, not in 'homes' which could be anything.)
How much does it cost per unit energy storage?
What is its projected lifespan in terms of charge/discharge cycles?
Without figures for these it's impossible to say if it's any better or worse than other battery types.
Now we are talking!!! Thank you so much for this so important information about how to make energy!!!
This is VERY interesting, basically a two way Fuel Cell battery!. Love it!
I'm kinda skeptical, but interested.
All natural because it uses salt water, but what are the membranes and other parts made of? How many 'charging' cycles before those components have to be replaced? What kind of loads did they use to estimate their 'average household'? So many questions, so little information in the presentation.
I agree.. she wasn't specific about anything.
At 4:50, she says, "able to store as much energy as we want."
I was thinking, "WHAT??"
Seemed as if she was saying that little contraption on the counter could store infinite energy.
Then at the end, she says that a cubic meter of it will provide energy needs of a household for one day; so I was like, "Oh."
+BC AtheyNo she wasn't specific. But that is ted talks. If you listen to a few of them, you will always get a broader picture but never the closest technical specs. In addition, this is a brand new technology, so some of your questions can't be answered yet.
She used some pretty loose language there like "energy" rather than electricity. The average US household use about 30kW/h per day or 901kW/H per month. Given this thing is a cubic meter (that's what she said) made mostly of water, the weight is about 1000kg, giving it about 30watts hours per kg. The lower end of the Lithium Ion cells can hold about 128Wh/kg. I didn't bother with the volumetric calc, but it's probably pretty low as well. As you mentioned, we have no idea what those membranes are made of. If this can be done cheaply, it might be worth building very large backup systems though. TBH, I don't know that anything has ever come from one of these Ted talks. They always have these giant breakthroughs that never seem to come to the market. There was a super efficient reverse osmosis contraption demonstrated at Ted years ago and it's still gone nowhere. Most of this stuff is in experimental phases and simply aren't commercially viable.
These are stupid teens that are being promoted by idiots that care more about social justice than actual science.
Was always going to be a But.!....A lot of u un answered questions..im skeptical about anyone taking either salt or water from our seas...and using it for energy...supply bearing in mind sea pollutions..these Days!!!!!!.
Play at 1.25x playback speed. ;)
you lose her cuteness
I watch most videos at 2x or 1.5x if hard to understand. It was a wonderful discovery that I could change the speed.
1.75x for me hahaha
What's the price per kWh? What's the efficiency? How many cycles can it do before it dies? What's the energy density by weight and by volume? Can it be scaled to grid level? The battle for energy storage is just beginning, flow batteries are usually limited by things like pumps and membranes.
Any positive and helpful idea is a good one!
Good luck with your storage project. 🤘🏼
how does it work...where do we plug things in...do we use electricity to charge it then it keeps going and we don't have to use electricity again?
very cool, but i would have liked to here more abought just how much electricity out put per day to how long it takes to charge the battery.and what it takes to charge it. and how much maintenance the batt. needs to stay effective.
Nothing under the boxes. 18 months after this talk, Still in R&D.
Very good. Could you share the technology so that it could be mass produced? - Regards
i would like to see how their experiment worked. and how they came to the conclusion that it did.
so water goes in gets split by electricity from maybe solar and stored in containers then when you have enough of the two liquids for your needs you feed the two back into the stack and the reaction creates water and electricity?
isn't it the hydrogen cell idea, then?
I find it very hard to believe that commercial energy storage research labs, have not already thoroughly investigated this obvious approach, in their quest for low volume, efficient electric car batteries.
Probably too big and heavy for cars.
I live in a very cold climate. Would that effect your battery since water would freeze? Is this the same as the salt water battery produced by a small number of companies?
OK, WHERE CAN I BUY ONE
THIS IS A WONDERFUL IDEA!!!
Looks hopeful, and truthful. However real batteries have specifications like how many cycles it can run before the energy storage degrades. How long does it last before it must be replaces? Also, there are two big issues for energy storage today: 1) Storing the days solar energy for night time use. 2) Storing summer excess solar energy for Winter Use. Day/night storage is not so difficult. But storing summer to winter energy requires 6 months x 30 days per month of storage. That is not 1 cubic meter, but 180 cubic meters per household. That is about the size of a 1000 square foot house!
Put it on the Market
Nice presentation and cool look like your team around the world can change the field of storage of energy but some technical doubts are what is its discharge rate, ratio of weight to storage and for any kind of hazard.
Horizon 2020 - 1 May 2017
A collaboration between AquaBattery, Wetsus, FujiFilm Europe, CIRCE, Università degli studi di Palermo and SMEDE Pantelleria (Gruppo SO.FI.P) has attracted a Horizon-2020 subsidy from the European Commission (Competitive Low-Carbon Energy). Together we will work on developing a novel energy storage system with a higher energy and power density, and for that matter we will realize a demonstration battery on the island of Pantelleria, Italy. Although the project has started already, still a lot of R&D is needed before operation of the battery can take place. At the end of 2018 we will start construction of the battery
Sounds good, How is it going @Robert?
She makes up in good looks for lack of concrete science. How do you keep the chloride from converting to chlorine or chlorate?
Check out Ambri Liquid Metal Batteries. This seems like the future of grid storage.
It's the membranes, not the solutions, that are the point: What are they made of, what do they cost, and how many charge/discharge cycles do they support before they stop working? These are the questions the talk should have answered, but didn't, so I don't know what they've actually accomplished. Oh, and will it work when the solutions are sloshing around, so it can be used in an electric car? And what's their energy-loss rate if you charge them and then leave them for 6 months?
I Googled it in 2023, but the search returned nothing from the web on the Blue Battery. How did it progress after those years, if at all? Did the project take off? The idea sounds good by all means, but...
Do you sell that product now ?
Did you make it during recess or after your nappy time?
A BEAUTIFUL MIBD....
Great concept, but will it work in practice?
I thought that according to Quantum Mechanics energy can not be held indefinitely. It will eventually break down the materials and escape. A process that causes half life? Correct me if I am wrong. I am not an expert. The issue is not the stacking system, but the ability of the materials to depreciate? has any progress been made in the Sugar enzyme battery? Basically creating a battery that transgresses into organic. A battery that breaks down but can actually regenerate to extend the half life rating?
Very interesting and impressive
just stunning
We kind of need cost details, performance data on the system and a life cycle analysis on it including a carbon footprint and disposal strategy once it reaches the end of its operational lifespan. In other words we need details.
Since when are lithium batteries "almost impossible to recycle". That is one of the good things about lithium ion batteries, once the battery has done some 5000 cycles you reuse the lithium salts, metals and so on, the only thing you need to put in new is electrolyte basically.
Intriguing, and yes, lets see the math.
,
Your battery is a good idea but the number of pieces to it seems large. And what are your initial numbers looking like?
how many cycles membrane would hold? I suspect that and membrane is more expensive to produce than the stored by it energy costs, and protons will be hard to store and OH base would be very violent...idea is good but I suspect that it is better to convert water to H2 and O2 or in other words to Hydrogen energy
And H2 and O2 are not violent? Its rocket fuel man!
man where did you read that I said the opposite?????
Ignore all the negative comments and let's prove we are right
i see comments that are asking for information. because not enough was giving. i hope she did find a better way to store energy. but for now i will stick with the salt water batteries as my favorite eco friendly battery
What a pity we never saw it working. The main issue was the bipolar membrane and how that works. That was never shown so we have no idea as to its effectiveness.
put it in a nice crystal layout and it would make a nice living room table or maybe embeded into a wall
This is ion exchange. That technology has been around a long time. Someone in the comments below said this is an electrolyte flow battery (Greatspacesbelow). Yes, the technology has been around a long time but how to create a cell to do what this speaker describes is interesting. It is the application and the actual physical membrane that is the challenge. Not as easy as it may seem.
Your battery sounds like a Electrolysis/Fuel Cell battery, if so, and even if not, what materials are used to make the Fuel Cell?, cos you say the battery could be emptied into the Sea without any problems. But is the Fuel Cell materials as safe?
I want 2 of these so my solar and wind electricity generators have a battery to store the power. This way I can get off the grid and away from the thieving parasites we call electrical resellers. My power bills have gone up 3 fold on 4 years even though I've reduced my grid usage by 80%.
go live in a cave then
How are lithium batteries hard to recycle?
Not hard, but they are harder than pouring salt water back into the ocean.
The lithium comes in diferent oxydes. You need first to open safely the battery and then use different solutions and solvents to take out every element. This process is not jet standardized and it's more expensive that actually mining more lithium.
Rico Balboa j
How much do these things cost, and how many charge/discharge cycles do they support before they quit working? Lithium-ion batteries support so few charge/discharge cycles that getting power from them is more expensive than buying it from the grid.
I think you can just estimate the price, but the more its produced the lesser is the cost per unit. massproduction make these affordable. But I want to see some predictions how much this could be
9:02
This is what she is up against. There are two things here, size and power delivery. She said it would store an amount of power, but the issue with flow batteries is that the current they can provide is insufficient without a LOT of surface area. That means lots of modules.
What she is up against at 9:02 in the video is the Tesla Powerwall. A battery that existed even as of the making of this video.
A battery with actual specifications that we can look at.
Stop by The Energy Sovereignty Project on our channel to see 6 Tesla Powerwalls in operation to power a home. The same volume of batteries as that she is standing next to, will power our home for a week.
The people were so cold she’s awesome!!!
It mentioned that there are four solutions, Pure water, Sodium Chloride and Sodium Sulfate, What was the fourth liquid?
Sodium hydroxide and hydrochloric acid I think (from Mei's lab video).
wait, I'm confused. So, is the battery generating electricity on its own?
How much energy loss is there from storing to outputting
Found a Number on Wiki. 91%. wtf. thats a lot
Bravo :-)
My Bullshit Detector and Grade A Trim Detector just went off at the same time.
I was waiting for her to distribute the "blue batteries" in the boxes to the public. At least 12 lucky ones. LOL. It's like the hydrogen fuel cell concept but without pressurized H+
How much water does it hold? A cubic meter of water is 2,200 pounds.
Ine, only cheap supercapacitor is the answer since it can deliver a large current compare to a generator or lead acid battery. I can't understand the problem. We have solar and windmill already. Supercapacitor is just high conductive activated carbon from coconut shell, rice, or abaca (manila hemp), aluminum foil and ionic liquid or liquid soap where aluminum foil will not corrode! Whats the problem?
A house needs to store a year's worth of energy to store solar energy for all times of day, all seasons, and all types of weather. We don't have space in our homes for 365 1-cubic-meter boxes.
so where do those electrons come from? for a chemical reaction to produce electricity it must release electrons. to release electrons you have to have free ones. mixing the chemicals together after you have used them and then pouring them into the sea is taking for granted that the atomic balance is unchanged. not sure that is a good thing.
Great
It takes more power to manufacture a P.V. panel than that panel produce over the life span of the panel.
There is a ready made market for this: the prepper community.
It does sound kinda like a fuel cell. Not only that, I'm gonna guess that two other solutions are something like sodium hydride solution and HCl solution. Instead of a hydrogen/oxygen fuel cell, might this be some kind of hydrogen/chlorine fuel cell?
I mean the half cell voltages are a bit more attractive.
Sad to see, that six years later is nothing more to see than this promotion video.
I thought she would say: "This box is the Internet. Don't drop it we'll all diiie!"
That all sounded great! Now, where do I plug in my George Foreman grill?
Unfortunately know electricity at school or university level it is not enough. Experience in that field it is absolutely necessary before think new storage solution.
Any volume of H2O will have a percentage of impurities. The filtering system for a pharmaceutical or semiconductor use costs tens to hundreds of thousands to install and maintain. The water in that mostly pure form is extremely corrosive and cannot be stored. Even one biological will start to multiply when the system is stagnant. That said, a home sized system would take an enormous system to run and the waste in drinking water would drain the great lakes. It takes water as a waste product to produce pure water. As the membranes are disolved the water would need filtering during the cycle. Good science but very difficult to make practical for long term use.
Can´t believe im the first to comment on how cute this girl looks...
To be honest dude, it does not matter even though I think she is cute also.
I see... so, she recharged you even without the cardboard battery. well, even an emotional recharge is good, after all!
And one thing more u forgot to notice, her voice.. 😁
A blonde with substance and brains. Very hot.
i hope that this stuff are true
i dont follow one thing. If each membrane repels each ion. Then how do the ions get onto their respective half if they can't cross the membrane? I was working while watching didnt catch it all if anyone cares to chip in or agree
boy she sure replenished My battery.
She's beautiful and I love her passion.
Why not just split water into Hydrogen and oxygen? Storage? We already have LNG so what's the difference? It's not as if containment vessels aren't available.
When did she said gas will run out? 2002 or 2052? Audio got screwy and subtext said 2002... Don't really care because I use solar and it is available NOW. We all should be using co-generation now in every house hold, anyway, natural gas can make electricity and hot water at the same time!
there is enough energy in one lighting strike to power a small town for a week!!!
No, investigate and you will see. It is high energy, but it is brief.
I think she meant that the machine was so inefficient that they could only extract enough energy to light up a room. But doubt there is enough power in a lighting strike to power a small town for a week. However it can light up a large town for a brief moment seeing as they do this naturally with no human intervention whatsoever.
it's very hard to store, because the voltage is highly fluctuating in that brief moment.
Sounds like HPFC (Hydrogen-Powered Fuel Cell). V big in energy research right now.
but storing hydrogen ions as acid, no platinum membrane required.
Where's the "Back to the Future" converter that will take the chemical change and turn it into Voltage?
Just remembered the "Back to the future converter is known as the "FLUX Capacitor"... sorry..
Ok, I'll where is the blue depot?
An inverse OPPOSITE to this lady to this Mei Nelissen and her amazing intelligence would be like a Rachel Notley of Alberta! :):)!
Great speech! But where is the proof? Ted should have proof!
Happy to say I'm the first viewer...great project ....
+Vishnu Reddy Damn it!I never was first=)
:)
Андрей Хван
mmmm...Privet....Kak dela ? :)
Why does that make ppl happy?
Are your Batteries better than Tesla Batteries ?
what was that oil depletion date 2??2.....????
I don't get it. It makes no sense and I see nothing working. Empty cardboard boxes?
4 glasses with some fluid in them Sodium chloride and sodium sulfate and a stack of what?
She probably didn't divulge all the details because the Chinese would have stolen and slapped a patent on it.
Chinese don't bother to patent, they just steal. Chinese culture does not believe in intellectual property.
👏👏👏👏👏👏
A permanent magnet motor as a generator is the normal way to generate electricity. Edison generators and dynamos easily replace fossil fuels and nuclear power plants. We are grossly misinformed about climate change and power generation.
This is a reflection of the Roman philosophy
Show us the B-A-T-T-E-R-Y!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why doesn’t hardly anyone mention how bad it is to drill for the rare earth metals you use in magnets for solar and wind? It isn’t clean energy.
ok, where is the battery?
give me the battery for testing..
its a hydrogen fuel cell, very similar to the one used in the Toyota Mirai.
Her estimates on oil and gas reserves are from an article written in the 1970's. Fact is we are awash in oil and gas.......literally and figuratively. We will find an alternative to fossil fuel long before we run out. This issue is not availability it is need or want. We have it we just don't really want it.
This is the same old stuff we have been hearing for years. Everyone trying to find a way to continue our destructive lifestyle. Can't these people see that the only way we can survive is to drastically reduce our energy consumption. And I DO mean drastically. By at least 90%. Either we do that now, or we will all have to move back into caves. The electric car is a joke waiting to happen. The great dream of endless rows of cars driving down endless highways is becoming a nightmare. Whole forests are vanishing before our eyes. And some people think a battery will save us. I hope I am still here in 20 years to say, "I told you so"
Yet another quintillionaire!
Would have been a much better presentation without the boxes.