$15,000 EQ Vs $300 EQ Worth It (Mastering Edition)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
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Hello, I'm Nicholas Di Lorenzo, Studio Owner, Mixing and Mastering engineer at Panorama Studios.
I'm an Italian-Australian born and raised in Melbourne. I've been a creative professional for 10 years managing some pretty awesome projects for artists, labels and producers all around the globe.
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Odd; please try; onepage.panoramamastering.com/sontec-test-files
As a mastering engineer I used the Sontec hardware on everything. I especially liked that I could eq the left and right differently. Knowing the real version and hearing this I am very impressed. I would mostly not even look at the knobs, just listen and you could find what was right.
you get it!!
That’s the only way to do it
I have never used the hardware but I love the plugin. It's just super clean and sounds musical. Low CPU as well
This is definitely interesting stuff! I’d like to see that deep dive into the plugin and it’s algorithms. I guess it’s not machine learning if he is calling it “real” learning. I’m also interested in how Tone Empire is doing their new AI modeled plugins.
Yeah; me to! Hopefully we can tee up an interview with BJ!
Amazing Plug In well worth the money. I use it as default eq.
bang on! For what it does it's amazing!
Thank you so much we really appreciate that!!!
I would love to hear / see an interview with the designer from Metric Halo. Great video here!
Noted! If I dive back into this world of DSP I definitely will be!
The Acustica Version sounds Fantastic!!!
Any update on the Interview with BJ? I would love to see it. I imagine they wanna protect their investments. Still hope it happens!!
Confusing at the end. You said…
Is $300 worth it? If it was 10 years ago, yes.
Is $300 worth it today? The IK is terrible. Nothing compares to it, if you want a sontec emulation, yes.
$300 is “worth it” 10 years ago and it’s worth it today, correct?
Or why would it not be worth $300 today as an emulation if you want that sound? I may have missed that. Does IK pass? Does Acustica pass? Cheers.
I should have been a bit more clear.
I have access to these tools, and my workflow doesn’t need another addition, anything in excess is purely a luxury.
However 10 years ago, I had much less resources and tools at my diaposal and this would have been worth it.
All of this is subjective and depends on the purpose of the gear and what it is best at. A Fairchild compressor will cost you about $35,000 in fair condition, but it sounds absolutely horrible on electronic dance music, and a Alesis 3630 compressor will cost you about $60 on ebay and will work a hell of a lot better for dance music than the Fairchild, however, the Alesis 3630 will blow a circuit out trying to compete with the Fairchild on rock n roll, R&b, acoustic and jazz music...true story, bro.
@@panorama_mastering
😳
@@dannydaniel8975 haha talk about a brain fart! 5 AM here; and I read the last comment as; sorry to say bro...
Now I must say, sorry bro!
A very astute observation my friend... very few if any others know this
As good or as close to a real Sontec this may sound,
A) it's Mac only (the logic behind this is unfathomable)
B) it requires an iLok, i.e. a personal data sharing & commercial relationship with a third party company just to be able to use something that one has paid for and purchased (which is unnecessary and insane, MANY companies successfully do copy protection in other less obtrusive ways)
C) it is WAY too expensive, no plugin in the world is worth 300$/€ (it's just code, and it requires a DAW etc to even work).
🤷🏼♂️
Hard pass, fun video.
Interesting take!
Metric Halo has always been Mac-first; they’ve been around for eons and I think their team is just more comfortable developing on the Mac first.
They eventually port, it just takes them a while. They’re a small shop, and BJ Buchalter also does hardware design and handles other programs.
Just wish they had Windows version- theybe been “working on it” for months and claimed its “getting close” for many more.
*sigh*
Let's see what the future holds!
@@panorama_mastering Indeed. I’m a big acustica guy…really just because I believe that technology and its future iterations are the way forward, and its been around for over a decade.
Algorithmic “averages” in terms of eq curves and nonlinearities/harmonics are the current state of affairs, and up until this product- convolution is the closest thing we can get to hardware (though it certainly poses its own set of issues).
Think about how closely a Kemper profiler gets to a tube amp…way way more saturation and nonlinear behavior present in a tube amp than in a traditional EQ. And yet here we are still stuck in the past.
I suppose what I’m trying to say is- I’m excited for this product and cant wait to buy it- hopefully I and other Windows users will be able to
Yeah I am going to see if I can put in the time to research heavy and tee up an interview with BJ!
So harsh , ouch
MES doesnt stand for Mastering Engineering Switch' ... : ) but your review is very nice.
Mastering Equaliser Switched ***
No...its simply MASTERING EQUALIZER SYSTEM
Now... if you asked Bugsy he'd probably say it stands for 'My Ears Suck'
@@MARTINSCHOL-v7f it is (in the words of its designer Burgess McNeal) "Mastering Equaliser: Switches", as opposed to the MEP series which used pots (potentiometers).
Just use either dmg equilibrium or Kirchhoff EQ in sontec modes instead if you have it. This mb sontec plugin isn’t anything special. It’s just digital still and matches out with the rest. There is also not much of any sound going on either with it. If you want sontec box tone get n4 with cupwise cuptone2 library and use the stec pre with dmg or kickoff and much more flexible and better sounding. Sontec is not meant to have much of a tone in the first place it’s trying to be a clean EQ in analog land.
They have a bumpbox(hardware unit) which they'll bring to market soon which you can use in conjunction with the plugin for absolute 1:1 recreation;
Close enough for government work
It's how we do;
I have a rule of thumb - if I need to do blind tests to make sure I'm hearing a difference, then it's not worth $15K
you are absolutely right, I mean at least if you didn't invest $15K in other fundamental aspects of your audio engineering career
@@EnricoCupellini I think that many top end units will become more valuable (to collectors) with the rise of plugins ... so a physical unit could be a good purchase as an investment that appreciates in value
Should always do blind tests regardless; I've done blind tests with SSL compressors and the differences can be stark; we always want to remove any confirmation bias! That's what's most important :)
@@twitcheyspleen yes you are right too. I only say I am not a collector of $15k hardware, if I had that money I would run a recording studio, not just buy a peace of gear. On the contrary some people with an established career in audio engineering can buy that hardware and enjoy it without troubles
Shame it's pity you've chosen to block your own mentality and joy with such a silly rule. If I had to blind test many things and choose them based on rule I'd have missed out of seriously Good gear lmao.
Price-wise the other option is to get a Metric Halo interface and get this plus the other Make Believe plugs plus a heap more included.
MH are 'forever' boxes - modular design, hardware upgradeable - what were firewire etc boxes from 15 years ago can now run on USB and ethernet by simply swapping a card out, and are fully supported.
Yeah; MH Stuff is golden!
To circle back to this - its finally out for Windows.
I've been analyzing it for a few hours here, and after many shootouts - I find the AlexB S432 Disc Master EQ for Nebula to be the closest...I daresay I even prefer it. Its almost dissapointing...the plugin itself is absolutely incredible but I have been waiting for almost a year for this to come to Windows...but my GOD the AlexB sampling is extremely gorgeous. There is definitely something to be said for having it all in one plugin, as opposed to the sontec library ala AlexB which needs to be loaded a band at a time. Also- I’m sure Band interactions are better represented. BUT to my ears, its hard for me to justify when its really this close
Hi R Huggins - actually, your comment reminded me I have Alex's GE version installed - after comparing them, I too have to say I prefer Alex's version.. √
I was blown away by the sound of this Sontec emulation by Metric Halo when it released! I still use the channel strip all across my mixes and have done for years, they’re doing something right over there.
Great video 🙌🏻
My pleasure! How damn good is it!!!
Thank you so much!!!
Its a great plugin but I just wish it was available for Windows too. I switch between Mac and PC often and not having it for both would be annoying for me, especially for £300.
Understood; I hope they release an update soon!
Hi guys not trying to sound smart, but I do always hear a glassy and clear/colder upper end on the MB plugin vs. the hardware. The hardware smooths out everywhere and invites my ear in. Am I crazy! Or is it true that even with an amazing plugin that is great designed by MB (love their stuff), there’s still a distinction-
FYI The T-Racks plugin is resizable. Just drag the lower right corner and you can get it as big as you want.
This plugin is just amazing - It sounded better than any other eq plugin for mastering - it is so gentle on what it does but when you bypass it you can hear the huge difference it makes
Two minor issues: the plugin can do half dB steps and with two high shelf options (8k and 12k), whereas the hardware 432 tested is 1 dB steps, the high shelf fixed at 10kHz, and not the original op amps. But yes the plugin sounds good, bearing in mind the widest bells boost almost the full frequency spectrum a bit.
I fully respect this comment; and I knew this coming into the video;
I wish more analog modeled plugin companies would stop settling for a 1 to 1 "recreation" and start adding modern features so we can have the best of both worlds.
Sontec with dynamic & Mid/Side would be great.
I agree, that would be great!
The IK 432 does have mid side. For $300, and being among many emulations already, I would expect it to beat all the others in every aspect as a leading plugin as well. Otherwise it can still fall short when say someone used to the IK looking for that slight more authentic low end doesn’t want to have to sacrifice the mid/side feature. No? Cheers.
Pulsar's new GML may be the one to rule them all. Their DSP is stunning, and they add nice extras.
Thats not likely to happen since the EQ's are designed to be Reference Standards for Mastering...
I’ve wanted a dynamic 432 for about 20 years.
Ayyy Tony's room, i've been there!
Btw you can adjust the scale of the T-racks Sontec by dragging the bottom right corner of the interface
Nice! Yeap; I learnt this after the fact;
Love your accent and your videos. I watched this video a few times. I downloaded their demo and used it for two days. I loved it so much. I was hesitant because $300 US dollars for one EQ plugin is very expensive. I loved all of the presets. I hear the Nebula version by Alex B is supposed to be a bit better but Nebula is crazy expensive and too complicated and full of strange limitations. I finally could not resist and despite the price I bought it. It's very special and makes you make decisions that you would normally not make with something like fabfilter. Thanks for an awesome video the plugin is awesome.
Thanks for all the hard work and arranging the interviews..I think the MH Sontec 432 is an amazing emulation.
Thank you so much!!!
I think the jury is out. Good plugins are ranging within minus 2% of the original. The value is definitely inherent with plugins, especially for small players.
For almost everyone! Even C.gheringer is on this plug!
It would be great if you could do a comparison between the Sontec plugin and Acustica Scarlet to hear the difference as they are a similar price.
Definitely; that was on the cards; but unfortunately the acustica hub/platform wasn't allowing me to work from the trial; maybe I had already trialed it in the past?
@@panorama_mastering companies should be giving you NFRs of their plugins by now 😉
They are; and acustica have with some of theirs too; but i'm only putting tools i'm either curious about the technology or actually using here on the youtube channel;
Otherwise; this will become one of those channels that just become a big billboard for plugin companies; and that's not my thing;
If I use it; or appreciate the technology; it get's shown; no payolla either;
@@panorama_mastering I like your integrity. But there's nothing wrong with getting your bag 💰 if the company or product fits in with your ideals.
I get that; but for the mean time; I have my flow; and I like being under the scrutiny of the viewers as to how to improve these videos not the companies :)
I make videos to help others; not companies who have an abundance; of TH-camrs singing their praises;
Not meaning to be so direct ;)
I like to think I have pretty good ears, and I have nice Focal monitors and a treated room. I matched the curves in plugin doctor with ProQ vs the Sontec plug-in (low shelf and high) doing a few dB boost and tested myself with Hofa blind test. I thought I could hear a difference but was only picking the Sontec just over 50% of the time. Not enough for me to be confident it wasn’t just chance. Not enough for me to spend $300 on an EQ plug-in just for those curves and the analog workflow. I do like the plug-in anyway, and if it were like $100, maybe even $150 I’d probably have bought it. They rarely do sales, don’t do Black Friday, which is fine. But for me personally it’s too expensive given the other options available in this market.
interview with BJ please :D
DUUUDE this video is sick!!!
HEY THANKS!
I agree...its a total heresy
do it really capture the "box tone" of the Sontec in your opinion ? and how much of a change that it makes ? I don't think there is anything special with the EQ curves than what we already have these days, say DMG Equilibrium or MAAT thEQblue.
Yes; it really does!
I wouldn't say it has something so incredible special you can discontinue considering other tools like DMG EQ, etc. However it certainly has it's "own thing" which can be used in sessions;
@@panorama_mastering alright, thanks for the info. I've spend some time reading the 2020 Sontec vs DMG test poll thread at Gearspace (until it becomes weird, lol) and figured the result from the test is enough to make me decide. Even the hardware itself is having trouble to beat the DMG consistently, one with 15 yrs experience only manage to get 70% correct.
Anyway, pls do a review for MAAT EQs if possible. Especially the Blue with the FiDef tech in it and let us know more about it from your view. Especially from technical point of the FiDef noise if other processing after (compress, limit) or Dither will affect it in any way. Gotta admit I'm not that good at doing the correct test on my own but you seem to be really good at them. Enjoying your videos.
Thanks.
Digital does the job. Amazing to be in a moment in history when you can literally do everything inside your laptop 😍
Yeah it’s wild!!!
Takes a subtle stab at Acustica while not supporting Windows.... LOL, and it's been that way for months now.
To me the analog kick is so much more prominent and pushes out of speaker more on TH-cam and my cheap computer speakers thats weird lol but 14700 more worth 🤔 🤷♂️
All of this stuff is so subjective...
A famous quote " If we improve our designs im very cautious because whatever we do, even something as simple as changing a Capacitor or some simple subtle asthetic change will have some people claiming it sounds different, which may not necessarily be a good thing.
Great video.
I love the Sontec EQ from Make Believe. It’s been living on my mix buss since I’ve been helping with the Beta Testing.
Yeap; it's a staple! I've been using it daily on some sessions!
I have the vst also is there a new version or still version 1?
Also- interview with BJ!
YES! I'll get pushing on this in the near future!
I just honestly wish they'd work on the GUI.. Love what the Softube guys did with the Mike-E GUI wise.. Looks hella real..
I are you refering to, the MH version or tracks?
@@panorama_mastering the MH version my kind Sir..
That's not too bad, but skeuomorphic rust and screws....ugh. Clean, functional beauty please.
I use it with Acustica Audio Scarlet 5 right after it to add some girth. The combo works very well for me. Scarlet is just used for its preamp, nothing else.
the plugin is a little more aggressive and you can hear the eq amount a little more as well. still a great plugin eq
Yes, I would welcome the MH interview. Thanks.
yes please do an interview with BJ the legend
we need a pc port asap
Noted!
It's out!!
Killer content, keep it up bro.
Thankyou mate!
16:39 I've definitely found this to be true with some IK plugins.
Regarding the interfact or the low end?
@@panorama_mastering Just FYI, you can enlarge the T--Racks GUI, complete bottom right of the plugin, the little white triangle, grab it, expand the interface to as big as you want/to your liking ! For the sound I don't know, I don't use it, and I don't have the cool one from your video !
@@mathieugarcia5762 what a horrible cock-up on my end; thanks for sharing that with us!
@@panorama_mastering regarding the GUI. I have one of the Tascam tape emus and it’s quite nice to work with. I find the controls on the 1081 and distressor emus very touchy though.
how does the new relab one compare?
Don't know haven't used it!
Relab maselec was crashing Reaper DAW …
is there a difference in the d2d and d9d? i cant seem to find the d2d on their site
You deleted.... Yumi
ha ! Please explain?
$300 for better UI 🙃
I think the low end is noticeably different! Especially on the low end; the T-racks didn't stack up;
its mac only for now sadly
Does this plugin has oversampling? what about aliasing?
No, and no.
@@TWEAKER01 so it doesn't have oversampling but definetely has aliasing
so basically, you achieve 100% of the sound with a fabfilter pro-q3 or kirchhoff
No. Incorrect.
nope, this have an interesting boxtone, very subtle but in the end not so subtle
No… pro-q wasn’t there… kirchoff in analog mode was close but not there. For me - dmg equllibrium and psp e27 are in the same boat
Yet another amazing video!!
Glad you think so! Thanks for watching!
Is this a sponsored video ?
No it isn't, this is sincerely a passion project where I aimed to put together my own discovery on using and exploring the plugin and what's behind it;
An astute recording engineer will know digital processing methods are still not up to par with pure analog as of 2023
..theyre ok for something like rap i suppose...