Something to note is that your temp readings were VERY off. A laser thermometer cannot read a reflective surface accurately. At 4:00 when you pour water on it, that is how water reacts when a surface is ~400f. Also, stainless steel turns brown at 480f. The light brown it was turning + the water instantly beading means that barrel was around 400 degrees LONG before you temped it at ~400. For more proof, look at how the temp jumped little by little every 100 rounds until you did the bacon. Once the bacon blacked the barrel the temp jumped 120f in 100 rounds. Getting hotter should mean more heat energy is released into the air (thermodynamics) so a sudden jump of 100+f simply can't happen. This doesn't really change the results or anything, but I wanted it pointed out for future tests.
@@MDTTAC Yeah this is a serious problem for a lot of applications I deal with (opto-mechanical engineer). We do a lot of shrink fit and precision work where we need to know how many microns something has shifted. Lasers are great on matte surfaces but any exposed metal and you're data is garbage (probably halfway between room and the real temp). That barrel was super toasty.
Attach a thermocouple to the barrel next time and get true readings. If you use a data logger and have a vibration sensor on it as well you could easily plot temp over time or temp vs number of shots fired.
at +/- 7:30 mark you have comet tails on the last few shots you fired. Wild dispersion of the last few shots is from the lead coming out the nose of the bullet. You see it on the paper around the last bullet holes. Textbook example of the lead beginning to melt and being ejected out the nose as the bullet decelerates. Heat of the chamber and barrel, and friction of flight leading to the melting of the core. Best example I have seen of this.
I was hoping someone could explain that, I was curious if it may have been the copper oxidizing and flaking off the jacket, or just carbon being pulled out of the bore/imbedding in the heat softened jacket. thanks for the explanation, thats wild!
Try lapping it to see if the accuracy improves. Also, from a metallurgical point of view, steel typically starts running colors(or bluing) at around 400-450 degrees for a straw or light yellow. When you commented your barrel was turning 'brown', you were well above 400F by that point. Potentially closer to 500, or even above that. Steel bluing colors is, sadly, something a lot of firearms enthusiasts really don't do a lot of research or even reading into at all, but as with any precision tool it's incredibly important to understand even the more subtle aspects of when there's any kind of heating involved.
Great Video, Well done Ryan. Thank You for using our Targets for the Video. Looks like our targets held up fairly well for 1000 rounds. Good Job 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Great job! The channel is going to skyrocket bc (1) the brand and (2) that hard work. One important test that has YET to be done is a carbon fiber barrel torture test. The debate hasn't yet been settled and it's been going on for years!
There is no way it was 200°f and water was vaporizing on impact. Those ir sensors are not reliable on shiny stainless from my experience (15 years in commercial refrigeration) The reason you finally kick up temp was after you cooked the bacon and left a better surface for the gun to read. I would say that barrel was minimum 300 when you poured the water
So under just about worst case conditions the damage still leaves a barrel which is mostly fine for most users if you don't need maximum precision. I wonder what a nitrided barrel would look like under the same stress?
This video has given me so much information on barrel life and what a barrel can and can't handle. Especially watching your groups after every 100 rounds. Extremely informative video! Thank you guys. I'll be saving this video
What a lucky Mo-Fo!!! That must of been an awesome day! Lots of trigger time , burning a barrel, and doing Science!!!! See kids this is what happens when you like school!!! Lol Another great video from the boys/Gals at MDT!!! 🍻😷👍
Now we need a comparison series: How much longer does it take for fluted barrels to heat up? Does cold hammer forged handle the heat better? Would a lighter barrel with no flutes cool down quicker than a fluted heavy barrel? Would be an expensive series with 6.5CM lol.
A fluted barrel should heat up faster, because there is less material to heat up, but it will also cool down faster, because there is more surface area for heat to escape. Over a long string of fire, it's hard to say if it will be overall cooler or warmer than a non-fluted barrel. Forging methods and materials are probably going to have a larger effect on how the barrel warps while hot than how fast or slow they heat or cool. A lighter barrel (as in a thinner profile barrel) is going to both heat up faster and cool down slower, because it will have less metal to heat up and less surface area to radiate heat away. That's why most target rifles use a larger diameter barrel. Now, if your lighter barrel is lighter due to being Carbon Fiber wrapped, then it gets tricky. Carbon Fiber doesn't hold heat as well, so some people say it will cool your barrel down faster. Others say it will insulate the core, causing the barrel to heat up faster and stay hot longer. A bit of that probably has to do with the quality of the barrel and how the Carbon Fiber is bonded to the barrel. Carbon Fiber's main advantage from an accuracy standpoint is that it is more rigid than steel. Theoretically, the rigidity of the Carbon Fiber will keep the barrel from warping as much when it gets hot. (It's also lighter, so it's easier to drag to and from the range/woods.) My target rifle has a heavy bull barrel. My hunting rifle has a Carbon Fiber barrel.
Very interesting video.. I think this proves the opposite of what everyone thinks.. that barrels aren’t as fragile as everyone thinks they are.. so many guys at the range shoot 3 shots and then have to let it cool down for 20 minutes so they don’t “wreck” It
As a blade smith I cringed when you poured water on that barrel while it was hot. That alone can cause cracking. Nice test Thanks for sacrificing all that ammo for us.
Thank you MTD for doing this video! This was something I was always curious about but could never afford to do. Good job guys. P.S. I am a proud owner of MTD products. I love your stuff.
I am having trouble parsing the data. After the 100rds you shot an average of 0.960moa. But no moa data was given for the groups shot before and during the test? Even the group after 50rds was larger than 1moa. Was there an initial group shot right after zeroing, the one in the middle of the right target, what was its size? Based on your conclusion, do you think letting the barrel cool completely after the 50rds of rapid fire would bring the group size down from the 1.5ish moa shot while hot to the unknown initial group size? Additionally, what was the specs on the barrel? Button rifled and nitrided? Who made it?
I'm wondering if you did your load development again for that barrel, you might get it to group well again. I've had barrels wear and result in the same ammo producing a different barrel time. Tweaking my loads in those instances (reducing the charge to produce the same barrel time) brought the groups back in again.
@@Dan-di9jd That's what I'd expect. I remember a friend telling me the 6.5 Creedmoor is a "barrel burner" and it would be burnt out after 1,000 rounds. I told him bs. I shot more than 2,000 rounds before I saw accuracy degrading. YMMV.. Just to give you an idea on how my barrel was, at 1,200 rounds, it was still shooting .6 moa 10 shot groups. I shot a lot of 10 shot groups with that rifle, and it did just fine.
That was fun.. Costly, but a really clever and worthy test.outside of adding bacon or water, that could or did cause a warpage by cooling on one side over the other, outside of that, the bacon cooking, all that did was make me hungry for some bacon, LOL... Thank for taking the time to rock & roll on this one..
I'm impressed the barrel survived so well. I've had a Sako finbear in .270win cause forewood smoking from radiant heat blasting away at a mob of pigs here in Australia. Stopped shooting to preserve the rifle. Only took about 14 rounds
@erik cortina is gunna have a fit about that barrel not being clean!.. and rightfully so, still looked like a lot of carbon in it to me. Great job putting that much effort into a test like that! I was definitely expecting to see more wear to the throat.
quite possibly the best shot ive ever seen. seriously. the bacon ..on the gun while shooting and the sizzlin smoke comin off. thats great sirs.. cheers
The color change in The barrel to brown coloring is a visual proof of your changing the temper of the barrel. You have effectively changed them temper. When making knives straw yellow to brown is the desired coloring when coming from heat treat oven.
Yeah even the initial groups weren't very impressive... no horrible but nothing to brag about, I'd say the barrel is still good for hunting and fun, and based on the initial groups I'd say it wasn't competition grade to start with, at least not with that ammo. Great video though guys, never thought a bolt gun could get that hot. Definitely wish I would've thought about cooking bacon on my barrel when I was a machine gunner lol
Interesting notes about a laser thermometer and general thermodynamics of the test and measurement: - The laser has nothing to do with the temperature reading, and is actually super misleading. The thermometer samples an area in front of the IR lens (offset from the laser) in an expanding "cone" of coverage. This means the barrel is only a small part of the area being measured, and the reading (rough average of the area at that distance) will be much lower than barrel temperature. For the most accurate reading of a point, place the IR lens (not the laser!) as close to the surface as possible. But ideally, just use a thermocouple. - The color of a surface matters a lot, because this changes it's infrared emissivity. Shiny metallic surfaces have a very low emissivity, matte black surfaces have a very high emissivity. The increase in measured temperature from 400-1000 rounds is then probably not a result of an actual increase in barrel temperature (it's thermal mass is low, and it probably hit thermal equilibrium with your rate of fire balancing convection at a few hundred rounds), but a result in the dramatic change in emissivity (browning/blackening grease) of the barrel resulting in more radiated energy measured by the infrared thermometer. Actually I'd bet a lot that as the barrel darkened, it's temperature actually started decreasing again as radiative cooling joined convection as a substantial path for heat out of the barrel, and lowered the equilibrium temperature with your rate of fire and heat input.
Wouldn’t the rapid quenching of the barrel by pouring water over it change the crystalline structure of the metal causing warping and make the overall performance worse? I’m no metallurgist but maybe that something to do with the overall change in moa compared to letting the barrel cool down on its own
One thing, did the mirage off that barrel not obstruct your view at all on the target? I've had that happen w/ suppressors, or even hot barrels.. Hell even w/ cerakote.
Great video, but you invalidated the findings when you started altering the barrel temp with the bacon and water. Then you messed with your scope adjustments when you went to the gun club. You don't need to re-zero to see how it groups unless you didn't zero it well initially. However, great video and results were well documented! I will keep up with your videos. Wish I could get a box or two of 6.5CM these days, LOL. Thanks.
The build up of carbon in the brake with that many rounds can cause bullet strike which can degrade precision greatly. A lot of people who think their barrel is shot out, it may not be. George Gardner of GA Precision says he sees this issue often when people send in fir a re barrel and it’s bullet strike in the brake that has carbon build up. Thanks, loved the video.
Fantastic video lots of hard work!!! I recently went & laid away a Savage Apex 6.5 Creedmoor. I have heard great stories on the 6.5 Creedmoor. I choose the Savage as a great rifle for the price!! I subscribed!!!!!!
If you want accurate temperature readings of a naked stainless barrel, you need to coat a measurement region with some type of matte black coating. You want the emissivity of the surface where you measure the temperature to be as close to 1 as possible. Generally, the trick of using a square of black electrical tape would work, but i think you'd melt the tape here. There are low-reflectivity black paints available and i would think something like a high-temperature oven paint would be appropriate.
Did I miss the before and after group comparison? Also a .9 MOA group is still good. Might not be as useful for precision long range competition, but still good.
I know it's a bit late to be thinking about it, but if you ever did another test like this it would be interesting to see if there is a velocity change each time you stopped to shoot a group and then after it was cleaned to see if the velocity had changed again or it had returned to a previous fps range. I am curious because I only personally know a couple people who have shot a barrel out and they've all said the velocity drops dramatically
Point taken on barrels heating up.Thanks ! What I use is my hand ; if I can't grab the barrel and hold it it's time to let it cool down. Food for thought though I wonder if black barrels heat up faster than stainless steel one's ?
Generally steel of MOST types is above 400 degrees Fahrenheit when it turns straw yellow! I'm surprised the barrel held together as well as it did considering heat treatment changes can happen at as low as 350 f with some steels! Crazy stuff!
but what would a barrel look like after 1000 rounds but not letting it get hot. bet the groups still open up pretty significantly. maybe not as much as this
@@Pew_pewchronicles In 2018 & 2019 LAX ammo was selling 200 round packs of 140gr Hornady American Gunner 6.5 Creed ammo for $0.67/round. It shot as well as any Hornady match ammo through my rifles & I wish I'd bought 10k or 15k rounds of it.
This is an interesting video. I wonder if the shifting of the groups was in part due to fouling. Looks like you went in totally clean, so it may be that the barrel actually gets more precise before it gets worse. A few of those groups earlier in the test looked pretty decent.
I’ve always heard that barrels do “wear in” or “break in” so to speak. I’ve also heard that over brushing a barrel and over cleaning in will prematurely wear it out. It doesn’t surprise me that a barrel tends to get more accurate after you put some rounds through it. Bullets being sent down the bore are softer than the steel and therefore swage down to fit the barrel but I imagine that repeated firing will tend to wear down any spots where the barrel might be just a tiny bit tighter, or wear the edges of the lands and grooves down to be smoother and more uniform. As precisely as barrels are made there is still a spec range for them just like any part so some will be on the lower end of the spec range and some on the higher end and some in the middle but once you put some use through them they will begin to become more consistent.
@@JG54206 probably true. I think the materials left behind by the bullet (copper fouling and carbon fouling) will begin to produce higher consistency. You gotta clean out the carbon, but also want to leave the copper in there. You sort of establish an equilibrium and leave it at that. This test was more about heat and durability. I'm not surprised in the result of barrel heating as that would create pronounced barrel whip.
A lot of assumptions made at the end there. Assuming you'll have less fire cracking of letting it cool. What if it is the temp swing that induces cracking? This was just a tease, I think another video is in order :D
Not gonna lie this hurts to watch for a guy who has a hard time finding the cash or the time to reload 15-20 rounds of 223 once in a blue moon. That said, very interesting data here. I think the result was surprising and either a supreme testament to the barrel manufacturer, maybe the heavy contour, or a paradigm shift in how we think of "barrel burning". At ~ 1moa after this abuse, while certainly "shot out" from a precision rifle mindset, this is wildly better than could be expected and I think still acceptable for a deer rifle. And who knows, center it on a lathe and sit it back a couple of threads or inches and she might still be in the near precision realm. I once shot a 223 wssm in a feather contour m70 that was an honest 6+ Moa burned out. I learned later that the owner wanted someone else to shoot it because he had ripped 7 or 8 through it and it hadn't seemed to be the same since.
Something to note is that your temp readings were VERY off. A laser thermometer cannot read a reflective surface accurately. At 4:00 when you pour water on it, that is how water reacts when a surface is ~400f. Also, stainless steel turns brown at 480f. The light brown it was turning + the water instantly beading means that barrel was around 400 degrees LONG before you temped it at ~400.
For more proof, look at how the temp jumped little by little every 100 rounds until you did the bacon. Once the bacon blacked the barrel the temp jumped 120f in 100 rounds. Getting hotter should mean more heat energy is released into the air (thermodynamics) so a sudden jump of 100+f simply can't happen.
This doesn't really change the results or anything, but I wanted it pointed out for future tests.
Thank you for the feedback!
Ya they should try temp sticks.
@@MDTTAC Yeah this is a serious problem for a lot of applications I deal with (opto-mechanical engineer). We do a lot of shrink fit and precision work where we need to know how many microns something has shifted. Lasers are great on matte surfaces but any exposed metal and you're data is garbage (probably halfway between room and the real temp). That barrel was super toasty.
@@userJohnSmith Yes, it's a thing for sure!
@locky balboa Thermodynamics gave me hell at GaTech! I appreciate your insights. 😉
That was an awesome video. Now post the barrel to CGN "IBI Barrel, mint condition only brought out once, deal of the year!"
No low ballers i know what I got
Loooooool this is sooo true 🇨🇦🇨🇳 might aswell post a China flag when posting canadian nowadays lol
Would they notice the smell of bacon
Gunpost for double the msrp
😂😂😂
That’s a lot of 6.5 ammunition that is still very difficult to find let alone to afford.
With that said great test.
Thank you so much!
That’s why MDT had to raise prices XD
That is what I was thinking.
Attach a thermocouple to the barrel next time and get true readings. If you use a data logger and have a vibration sensor on it as well you could easily plot temp over time or temp vs number of shots fired.
Geez. Was wondering where all of the 6.5 ammo went! Love these videos though so worth it.
Thank you so much for the kind words!
at +/- 7:30 mark you have comet tails on the last few shots you fired. Wild dispersion of the last few shots is from the lead coming out the nose of the bullet. You see it on the paper around the last bullet holes. Textbook example of the lead beginning to melt and being ejected out the nose as the bullet decelerates. Heat of the chamber and barrel, and friction of flight leading to the melting of the core. Best example I have seen of this.
I was hoping someone could explain that, I was curious if it may have been the copper oxidizing and flaking off the jacket, or just carbon being pulled out of the bore/imbedding in the heat softened jacket. thanks for the explanation, thats wild!
Nice touch putting the metric readings as well as the imperial ones. Us non american gun enthousiasts always appreciate it, thanks guys !
No problem!
Try lapping it to see if the accuracy improves.
Also, from a metallurgical point of view, steel typically starts running colors(or bluing) at around 400-450 degrees for a straw or light yellow. When you commented your barrel was turning 'brown', you were well above 400F by that point. Potentially closer to 500, or even above that. Steel bluing colors is, sadly, something a lot of firearms enthusiasts really don't do a lot of research or even reading into at all, but as with any precision tool it's incredibly important to understand even the more subtle aspects of when there's any kind of heating involved.
Imagine being the neighbours and hearing that for a few hours you'd think they're just burning money
Nobody is around those parts for miles!
Great Video, Well done Ryan.
Thank You for using our Targets for the Video. Looks like our targets held up fairly well for 1000 rounds.
Good Job 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Great job! The channel is going to skyrocket bc (1) the brand and (2) that hard work. One important test that has YET to be done is a carbon fiber barrel torture test. The debate hasn't yet been settled and it's been going on for years!
Thank you so much for the kind words, and maybe we can do something like that in the future.
Thank you for the disclaimer. Now I can watch this with eased mind.
Looking to build a sporting or hunting rifle of your own? Check out mdttac.com/
There is no way it was 200°f and water was vaporizing on impact. Those ir sensors are not reliable on shiny stainless from my experience (15 years in commercial refrigeration)
The reason you finally kick up temp was after you cooked the bacon and left a better surface for the gun to read. I would say that barrel was minimum 300 when you poured the water
Those are all your Black Friday magazine on table for 2022 😂. Love your products !
So under just about worst case conditions the damage still leaves a barrel which is mostly fine for most users if you don't need maximum precision.
I wonder what a nitrided barrel would look like under the same stress?
This video has given me so much information on barrel life and what a barrel can and can't handle. Especially watching your groups after every 100 rounds. Extremely informative video! Thank you guys. I'll be saving this video
No wonder I can't find any 6.5 ammo! Lol
This is a great way to advertise the company. Keep it up. Happy with my MDT chassis 👍👍
Thanks for the video . I’m never going to be worried about ruining my barrel again
What a lucky Mo-Fo!!!
That must of been an awesome day! Lots of trigger time , burning a barrel, and doing Science!!!!
See kids this is what happens when you like school!!! Lol
Another great video from the boys/Gals at MDT!!!
🍻😷👍
once the carbon from the bacon stuck the barrel the optical thermometer started to read more accurately. they dont read bare stainless very well
Even after 1000k rounds it shoots tighter than most people will shoot at.
one million
I am saying this with humor the AK and Mosin fanboys think these garbage guns with 1- and 2-foot groups at 50 yards is benchrest accuracy.
Of course I hear the Mark Rober background music on this. Well done.
Now we need a comparison series: How much longer does it take for fluted barrels to heat up? Does cold hammer forged handle the heat better? Would a lighter barrel with no flutes cool down quicker than a fluted heavy barrel? Would be an expensive series with 6.5CM lol.
A fluted barrel should heat up faster, because there is less material to heat up, but it will also cool down faster, because there is more surface area for heat to escape. Over a long string of fire, it's hard to say if it will be overall cooler or warmer than a non-fluted barrel.
Forging methods and materials are probably going to have a larger effect on how the barrel warps while hot than how fast or slow they heat or cool.
A lighter barrel (as in a thinner profile barrel) is going to both heat up faster and cool down slower, because it will have less metal to heat up and less surface area to radiate heat away. That's why most target rifles use a larger diameter barrel.
Now, if your lighter barrel is lighter due to being Carbon Fiber wrapped, then it gets tricky.
Carbon Fiber doesn't hold heat as well, so some people say it will cool your barrel down faster. Others say it will insulate the core, causing the barrel to heat up faster and stay hot longer. A bit of that probably has to do with the quality of the barrel and how the Carbon Fiber is bonded to the barrel.
Carbon Fiber's main advantage from an accuracy standpoint is that it is more rigid than steel. Theoretically, the rigidity of the Carbon Fiber will keep the barrel from warping as much when it gets hot. (It's also lighter, so it's easier to drag to and from the range/woods.)
My target rifle has a heavy bull barrel. My hunting rifle has a Carbon Fiber barrel.
Why dont u make this experiment with your own barrel? lol
Best gun content on youtube in aspect of editing and informativity! keep it up guys!
Thank you so much!
Very interesting video.. I think this proves the opposite of what everyone thinks.. that barrels aren’t as fragile as everyone thinks they are.. so many guys at the range shoot 3 shots and then have to let it cool down for 20 minutes so they don’t “wreck” It
As a blade smith I cringed when you poured water on that barrel while it was hot. That alone can cause cracking. Nice test Thanks for sacrificing all that ammo for us.
Thank you MTD for doing this video! This was something I was always curious about but could never afford to do. Good job guys.
P.S. I am a proud owner of MTD products. I love your stuff.
Thank you so much for the kind words!
MDT * lol
I am having trouble parsing the data. After the 100rds you shot an average of 0.960moa. But no moa data was given for the groups shot before and during the test? Even the group after 50rds was larger than 1moa. Was there an initial group shot right after zeroing, the one in the middle of the right target, what was its size? Based on your conclusion, do you think letting the barrel cool completely after the 50rds of rapid fire would bring the group size down from the 1.5ish moa shot while hot to the unknown initial group size?
Additionally, what was the specs on the barrel? Button rifled and nitrided? Who made it?
I'm wondering if you did your load development again for that barrel, you might get it to group well again. I've had barrels wear and result in the same ammo producing a different barrel time. Tweaking my loads in those instances (reducing the charge to produce the same barrel time) brought the groups back in again.
There’s a follow up video where a guy gave it a good cleaning and it shot under 1 moa still. So the barrel is still in good shape.
@@Dan-di9jd That's what I'd expect. I remember a friend telling me the 6.5 Creedmoor is a "barrel burner" and it would be burnt out after 1,000 rounds. I told him bs. I shot more than 2,000 rounds before I saw accuracy degrading. YMMV.. Just to give you an idea on how my barrel was, at 1,200 rounds, it was still shooting .6 moa 10 shot groups. I shot a lot of 10 shot groups with that rifle, and it did just fine.
That was fun.. Costly, but a really clever and worthy test.outside of adding bacon or water, that could or did cause a warpage by cooling on one side over the other, outside of that, the bacon cooking, all that did was make me hungry for some bacon, LOL... Thank for taking the time to rock & roll on this one..
I'm impressed the barrel survived so well.
I've had a Sako finbear in
.270win cause forewood smoking from radiant heat blasting away at a mob of pigs here in Australia. Stopped shooting to preserve the rifle.
Only took about 14 rounds
Hell yeah Shane smash those pigs! Fairly light profile barrel mate?
A 270 Win or Mag? It's a pretty thin walled Win for 14 rounds....at least I would think.
Thanks for this test guys, y'all at MDT ROCK!!!!
0:25 it's so beautiful I want to cry 🥺🥺🥺
All the reloaders are just fizzing at the thought of finding that brass lol
Yup, but it will go on to be more ammo again!
@erik cortina is gunna have a fit about that barrel not being clean!.. and rightfully so, still looked like a lot of carbon in it to me. Great job putting that much effort into a test like that! I was definitely expecting to see more wear to the throat.
Well Erik Cortina's groups are 4 times smaller, he's just living on another planet
From what i've seen stainless does a great job at getting rid of the barel's thermal energy.
quite possibly the best shot ive ever seen. seriously. the bacon ..on the gun while shooting and the sizzlin smoke comin off. thats great sirs.. cheers
Another great topic from the MDT team
That was great. Always wondered how effective it was to burn out a barrel.
Such an awesome video, would love more of this!
Thank you so much, we will do more soon!
Awesome video. I just subscribed. Looking to see more videos. Very well done.
The color change in The barrel to brown coloring is a visual proof of your changing the temper of the barrel. You have effectively changed them temper. When making knives straw yellow to brown is the desired coloring when coming from heat treat oven.
Finally a video worth watching!! I still don’t think the barrel is junk some groups are sub MOA!
Yeah even the initial groups weren't very impressive... no horrible but nothing to brag about, I'd say the barrel is still good for hunting and fun, and based on the initial groups I'd say it wasn't competition grade to start with, at least not with that ammo. Great video though guys, never thought a bolt gun could get that hot. Definitely wish I would've thought about cooking bacon on my barrel when I was a machine gunner lol
Interesting notes about a laser thermometer and general thermodynamics of the test and measurement:
- The laser has nothing to do with the temperature reading, and is actually super misleading. The thermometer samples an area in front of the IR lens (offset from the laser) in an expanding "cone" of coverage. This means the barrel is only a small part of the area being measured, and the reading (rough average of the area at that distance) will be much lower than barrel temperature. For the most accurate reading of a point, place the IR lens (not the laser!) as close to the surface as possible. But ideally, just use a thermocouple.
- The color of a surface matters a lot, because this changes it's infrared emissivity. Shiny metallic surfaces have a very low emissivity, matte black surfaces have a very high emissivity. The increase in measured temperature from 400-1000 rounds is then probably not a result of an actual increase in barrel temperature (it's thermal mass is low, and it probably hit thermal equilibrium with your rate of fire balancing convection at a few hundred rounds), but a result in the dramatic change in emissivity (browning/blackening grease) of the barrel resulting in more radiated energy measured by the infrared thermometer.
Actually I'd bet a lot that as the barrel darkened, it's temperature actually started decreasing again as radiative cooling joined convection as a substantial path for heat out of the barrel, and lowered the equilibrium temperature with your rate of fire and heat input.
Wouldn’t the rapid quenching of the barrel by pouring water over it change the crystalline structure of the metal causing warping and make the overall performance worse? I’m no metallurgist but maybe that something to do with the overall change in moa compared to letting the barrel cool down on its own
not hot enough for that.
If it was close to 2000° then maybe but not around 500
Not enough heat and not enough water.
Need to watch those edits... the government may try to ban your rapid fire weapon that's using high round clips 😂😂
One thing, did the mirage off that barrel not obstruct your view at all on the target? I've had that happen w/ suppressors, or even hot barrels.. Hell even w/ cerakote.
That ammo is pretty fancy for this LOL. Cool vid bro!
I really enjoy the testing videos you guys do keep them coming
Thank you!
Great video, but you invalidated the findings when you started altering the barrel temp with the bacon and water. Then you messed with your scope adjustments when you went to the gun club. You don't need to re-zero to see how it groups unless you didn't zero it well initially.
However, great video and results were well documented! I will keep up with your videos. Wish I could get a box or two of 6.5CM these days, LOL. Thanks.
This video was secondary to what we were testing, but thank you for the feedback!
Awesome! I wonder do you have the resources to run this test on a hammer-forged carbon steel barrel ? I am very curious.
Great video! I somehow bet that barrel ended up on Gun Broker,... "Lightly Used". Lol
rifle bacon, my favorite breakfast. great vid!
Very interesting vid...thanks...Wow! How to destruct a barrel!
The amount of money 1000 rounds of 6.5 creed goes for today is in and of itself insane
Appreciate your work !!
Thank you!
I noticed the brake I’ve seen it a couple times before. I’m guessing the testing was related to the brake?
OOOO, we can't say, but good catch!
So refreshing to see gun videos in metric.
Very good post. Thank you.
The build up of carbon in the brake with that many rounds can cause bullet strike which can degrade precision greatly. A lot of people who think their barrel is shot out, it may not be. George Gardner of GA Precision says he sees this issue often when people send in fir a re barrel and it’s bullet strike in the brake that has carbon build up. Thanks, loved the video.
So close...........Nice!
Turn the res up to 1080 and look at his holes at about 8:06…. See the grey swirl?🤣
Subbed. Great content.
Thank you for the kind words!
That is the most Canadian dude ever
Who made the barrel??
You know if you cut the star completely out of the target you win the giant purple teddy bear.
Fantastic video lots of hard work!!! I recently went & laid away a Savage Apex 6.5 Creedmoor. I have heard great stories on the 6.5 Creedmoor. I choose the Savage as a great rifle for the price!! I subscribed!!!!!!
Thank you! It's a great all around action which we do have some chassis options for :)
Great video! I appreciate learning on your dollar. Although im surely jealous of all the rounds you get to fire! 👍👍
I've always wondered about this! Great content/video!
Bacon 🥓, bullets and barrels 😎😁 what a combo. That was a great video and really interesting to watch 🥰
A good bit of trigger time too 😊😊
Always a good combo!
I always love to see a “Kalashnikov group” type video
If you want accurate temperature readings of a naked stainless barrel, you need to coat a measurement region with some type of matte black coating. You want the emissivity of the surface where you measure the temperature to be as close to 1 as possible. Generally, the trick of using a square of black electrical tape would work, but i think you'd melt the tape here.
There are low-reflectivity black paints available and i would think something like a high-temperature oven paint would be appropriate.
Did I miss the before and after group comparison? Also a .9 MOA group is still good. Might not be as useful for precision long range competition, but still good.
What barrel did y'all use for the testing?
International barrels (IBI)
@@MDTTAC sweet I have one of their barrel's on my .308.
Nothing quite like the smell of gunpowder and bacon in the morning.
I know it's a bit late to be thinking about it, but if you ever did another test like this it would be interesting to see if there is a velocity change each time you stopped to shoot a group and then after it was cleaned to see if the velocity had changed again or it had returned to a previous fps range. I am curious because I only personally know a couple people who have shot a barrel out and they've all said the velocity drops dramatically
I love how they used the thickest barrel possible to make sure it took the most amount of ammunition.
That is an absolutely beautiful gun
Shoots better than I expected at the end - still close ranger hunter 👍
Great video.Enjoyed it and learned from it.
Point taken on barrels heating up.Thanks !
What I use is my hand ; if I can't grab the barrel and hold it it's time to let it cool down.
Food for thought though I wonder if black barrels heat up faster than stainless steel one's ?
Now I know why we can't find any 6.5 creed ammo! Joking aside, great video!
it hold so well because the barrel is thick like my .... So I think normal barrel will wreck faster. Really interesting video ! Thanks a lot
Generally steel of MOST types is above 400 degrees Fahrenheit when it turns straw yellow! I'm surprised the barrel held together as well as it did considering heat treatment changes can happen at as low as 350 f with some steels! Crazy stuff!
So this is why I can’t find any 6.5 creed ammo lol 😂😂 jk but this is crazy cool!
Great video. Do you have any info comparing the different barrel materials, especially some of the carbons?
but what would a barrel look like after 1000 rounds but not letting it get hot. bet the groups still open up pretty significantly. maybe not as much as this
4:47: What Europeans think of how Americans cook.
Kudos to you for spending the time and HUGE money to get that done for us. About $1,200 in ammo? Thank you!
$1200 in ammunition what planet do you live on? I want to shop there for ammo
@@Pew_pewchronicles I’m sure MDT gets dealer pricing on ammo, not to mention it’s a write off so they get to save a little tax money too.
@@Pew_pewchronicles $1.20/round for 6.5 Creed ammo was not a different planet just a different time.
@@gsxr1189 $1.20 would be a bargain in the LA area 6.5 Creedmoor is selling Hornady ELDM 200 rounds $600 and the same 200 rounds case 6.5 PRC $1200
@@Pew_pewchronicles In 2018 & 2019 LAX ammo was selling 200 round packs of 140gr Hornady American Gunner 6.5 Creed ammo for $0.67/round. It shot as well as any Hornady match ammo through my rifles & I wish I'd bought 10k or 15k rounds of it.
Awesome video. Wish you had used a proper temperature reader though. Those temps were way off.
I wounder if no water was put on the hot barrel and it was left to cool down without being quenched would there still be cracks ?
Tell me you've got money, without telling me you have money!
After cleaning, don't you need to do a number of fouling shots before trying to group?
This is an interesting video. I wonder if the shifting of the groups was in part due to fouling. Looks like you went in totally clean, so it may be that the barrel actually gets more precise before it gets worse.
A few of those groups earlier in the test looked pretty decent.
I’ve always heard that barrels do “wear in” or “break in” so to speak. I’ve also heard that over brushing a barrel and over cleaning in will prematurely wear it out. It doesn’t surprise me that a barrel tends to get more accurate after you put some rounds through it. Bullets being sent down the bore are softer than the steel and therefore swage down to fit the barrel but I imagine that repeated firing will tend to wear down any spots where the barrel might be just a tiny bit tighter, or wear the edges of the lands and grooves down to be smoother and more uniform. As precisely as barrels are made there is still a spec range for them just like any part so some will be on the lower end of the spec range and some on the higher end and some in the middle but once you put some use through them they will begin to become more consistent.
@@JG54206 probably true.
I think the materials left behind by the bullet (copper fouling and carbon fouling) will begin to produce higher consistency. You gotta clean out the carbon, but also want to leave the copper in there. You sort of establish an equilibrium and leave it at that. This test was more about heat and durability.
I'm not surprised in the result of barrel heating as that would create pronounced barrel whip.
The loss of mass to the barrel inner surface will also change the nodes, which could explain the loss in accuracy.
A lot of assumptions made at the end there. Assuming you'll have less fire cracking of letting it cool. What if it is the temp swing that induces cracking? This was just a tease, I think another video is in order :D
There will be a follow-up to this video in time!
Not gonna lie this hurts to watch for a guy who has a hard time finding the cash or the time to reload 15-20 rounds of 223 once in a blue moon. That said, very interesting data here. I think the result was surprising and either a supreme testament to the barrel manufacturer, maybe the heavy contour, or a paradigm shift in how we think of "barrel burning". At ~ 1moa after this abuse, while certainly "shot out" from a precision rifle mindset, this is wildly better than could be expected and I think still acceptable for a deer rifle. And who knows, center it on a lathe and sit it back a couple of threads or inches and she might still be in the near precision realm. I once shot a 223 wssm in a feather contour m70 that was an honest 6+ Moa burned out. I learned later that the owner wanted someone else to shoot it because he had ripped 7 or 8 through it and it hadn't seemed to be the same since.
Great video !!
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it :)
M60 barrels get ridiculously hot. Oven mitt is a necessity. Good way to make BLTs when it’s lunch and the enemy is active.
Awesome test guys, I was curious though on what kind of brake you had on that gun? It did not look like the standard MDT one. Thank you
Secret for now.....