I used this set-up almost to a tee while in the Marine Corps. The Usgi poncho would be slightly more breathable, but would be less waterproof. Thus, there is a tradeoff. We would use your setup down to about 32-35 degrees, but I always wore my m-65 field jacket w/ liner. Wooly pulley sweater, and longjohns or polypro. The saying in Recon was "Pack light, Freeze at night".
"Pack light, Freeze at night" That sounds about right! But it's not like you have much of a choice when you need to move and can't carry a bunch of junk in a big pack. I'm beginning to get tempted to go out and use this setup again, with a few modifications from what I've learned from viewers. Maybe I'll have to do some sort of really minimal gear military surplus overnight challenge. Thanks for your service camping uncomfortably!
@@GaerHampton I've tried quite a bit of setups. I'm long out of the military now, but I swear by the Wilderness Innovation Personal Survival Blanket these days. The primary benefit of the PSB is in the way it handles moisture. I have one PSBT (tall) and 2 PSBL (large) size. The blankets weigh more than the poncho liner itself (almost double) 3lbs 11oz and 4lbs 8oz, but they are water repellent up to moderate rain and can keep you warm when soaked. I figure it's close to the weight of the poncho and poncho liner together. I can sleep in my underwear (only) at ~ 30f comfortably using the same model thermarest as yours (I'm a warm sleeper). I've slept at 25f in this setup, but I needed silkweight and heavyweight polypros and my feet were slightly cold.
Back in the day this sleep system was our go to in the field artillery. If you sleep with both ends open, you won't get so much condensation. If you also sleep with your boots on but untied and loose and something on your hands and head to trap in your body heat, you will also stay warmer that way. But the main key to this system is to not get in it with wet or damp clothing if possible and not so many layers that you start sweating.
I went to Wilderness Innovations for my Poncho/hammock combination & liners. I wasn’t even warm in the stupid woobie , in Vietnam. I ended up using it as a blood sponge, after a mortar attack. It works for low crawling, when your hands are bleeding, & you don’t want any more contamination in you wounds, but I’ve never missed it in 50 yrs. Cheap is pretty much COLD! A deal isn’t necessarily a deal, because its cheap! Most camping equipment is marketed for Boy Scouts, size wise, also! Don’t waste your money on cheap, because you will end up getting quality, and bought cheap too, you won’t use again. I appreciated the honesty of you review & hope you had a hot drink in the morning, you deserved one!
Thanks! And thanks for your service & sacrifice! Yeah, I've pretty much eliminated my woobie from any cool weather usage. I had thought that it worked pretty well on its own in very mild overnight temps....which it can....if the air is very dry. But this past week I used it for a few nights out backpacking, and was again disappointed by it. It sure doesn't breathe worth a damn! The air at night got rather damp, and as a result, I felt pretty sticky under the woobie in my hammock. Oh well, I guess that you can't expect a thin polyester or nylon government surplus quilt to perform like something made out of wool or down! I'll have to check out Wilderness Innovations' gear. It looks like some good stuff. Yes, you might as well skip buying cheap gear, because it usually costs you more in the long run to buy a proper replacement. I have good gear that I bought 20 years ago that I'm still using, and haven't had to replace due to it wearing out.
The poncho and liner shouldn't be used as a straight sleeping bag without unsnapping sections unless you are in temperatures below 0 Celsius.Above that, you need space between you and the sleep system because the poncho itself is water proof, and does not allow moisture from your body to escape. Below zero, the moisture is trapped, but will collect as frost on the poncho itself, and will not get you wet.
Yeah this isn't designed to be camping gear, it's meant to shelter troops with efficient costs and weight penalties. Intended to be something you put over your uniform and whatever seasonal gear you are issued. a way to add ventilation would be to tie some shock cord to the hood and hang it high, so it adds an air space above you with a chimney to vent moisture.
Love those Hudson Bay blankets -- but if you're going to hike with one, you might need a frame pack and tumpline! When I picked up one of those Mil-Tec ponchos they were still urethane-coated ripstop (now PVC coated polyester) and my main shelter plan was to use a basic bivy bag under the poncho tarp. My aftermarket hooded woobie can be worn under the poncho as an insulating layer when active, or as the same when inside the bivy at night. I've spent many nights near or below freezing with a 1/2 in foam pad and no tarp, so today's setup adds a decent air mattress and if needed, a good bag/quilt. Thanks for your report and conclusions -- I guess it was too much to hope for a different result!
I am not surprised by your analysis sir. I owned both a US woobie and one of those swiss army blanket copy. First, the woobie itself is really not breathable and I sweated a lot sleeping only with it in summertime (never used it in combination with a poncho), and the blanket is ok as you said for a car back up but it is not great. Genuine military ones are far better in general. Thank you fot the review, nice and honnest.
You might want to try adding a emergency blanket/tarp. Put the emergency blanket on the inside of the poncho and then put the woobie blanket on top of that, snap the poncho together and have a very warm sleep system. Enjoy
Been using a Ranger roll woobie and poncho, with and SOL Mylar double size sheet pinned to the woobie, for years. SOL is tougher and not as noisy as the cheaper Mylar. It will take you down to 30F no problem so long as you have sufficient seasonal clothing. I often stick my boots in the bottom of the bag once it is closed also by large safety pins and open up the bag and drape it over me like a quilt. A real issue poncho 1960s-90s is longer and wider. I’m a former Cod War Sgt.
I've found the woobie, over an 80/20 (Harbor Freight) Wool Blanket using the Poncho as a Tarp works well here in the Mountains of E. TN down to freezing temps. I do sleep on top of a Grabber reflective tarp with a 3/4 Thermarest to eliminate ground cold. I have used the woobie attached to the poncho and just thrown it over me and the wool blanket loosely on top of the same ground set up when a tarp just wasn't necessary with good luck.
I recommend adding a sheet of Tyvek between the liner and the outer shell. Ultralight backpackers use it as a ground tarp, due to the light weight, but I found that it works very well as a breathable waterproof barrier as well. Similar to Gore Tex, but much more affordable. There are multiple sellers on Ebay for sheets cut to any size. I recommend washing it on the gentle cycle with cold water, to soften it up and make it not crinkle or noisy. It won't affect the durability at all, the stuff is great! If you use it as the second to outermost layer, then the moisture will condense between the two sheets, leaving you dry inside. It is still a bit clammy, but not nearly as bad as having a total vapor barrier. Plus, if you go to bed with somewhat damp cloths on (not sopping wet obviously), you'll dry out a little bit through the night by pushing the water out through the membrane. I won't say you'll be completely dry, but it does make a difference!
Within the past year I've actually bought a couple of Tyvek sheets for use as lightweight backpacking ground tarps. Oddly enough, until you just pointed this out, I didn't know that Tyvek was breathable! I just figured that it was impermeable to all moisture. I need to give this use a shot, as it sounds like a very good idea! I've also known about washing Tyvek to soften it, but up until now I haven't done it as I wondered if doing so might cause the material to lose a bit of its waterproof characteristics.
I just got the Dutch Army liner Gareth this set up was called a doss bag by the British Army and slackers are called dossers as the laziest would be the last to get out of their bags 😉 Hope you have a great weekend buddy, all the best Roo
Nice name! Hopefully the Dutch version is a it more breathable than the U.S. one. (which could still do a bit better job in that department even when used without the poncho) Congratulations on hitting 1000 subs!
@@GaerHampton I've not seen the US version but I guess they're similar Gareth not at 1000 subscribers yet but just got a big boost from James at Harshman Hills he's doing a giveaway at the moment if you're not subscribed to him check it out 👍 All the best Roo
It dries quickly and was as warm and as light as the issue wool blanket at the time to 55-60 F. Viet Nam temps went from 100 down to 55 at night. With extra clothes and dry sleep shirt and socks you can go down to 45F depending on what your wearing. Add a SOL Mylar heat sheet or Mylar bivy and you can go down to 30 F. Done it for years. GI s needed something light as mission gear was heavy. Think of it as part of a system not as a sleeping bag.
I tried this when I was in the Army and that outer shell (poncho) just isn't breathable, so your moisture gets trapped, gets cold, then you're cold or wet or both. The poncho liner I've heard is rated to about 50 degrees. I typically will use it as a liner for my 40*F down sleeping bag to take that sucker to lower temps, or I'll use it when temps won't go below 60*F. The practice, if it really started in the jungles of Vietnam, started in a climate where you were wet anyway and this probably kept you a little less wet.
Jerry, I think that you have a great point about the poncho possibly keeping guys at a somewhat drier state of dampness in the jungle. I really like the poncho liner itself. I had great success using it as a blanket in my hammock over the summer. I seemed to work great for temps down to maybe the mid 50s.
As for the sleep system itself I would definitely recommend keeping the wool blanket with you and I also have a standard usdi poncho not the miltec reproductions that definitely makes a huge difference because it will not let you get very moist therefore you're not trying to warm water while you're trying to warm yourself LOL I think you should try using your plush but lock on the ground as your roll and use your poncho as your shelter simply because the plush is better for that until you get a regular USG I punch
I'm an avid user the wool blanket and that is not couch potato use either I use it in the field all the time if you let it flop over you and don't pull it towards you the loft is there a lot of people naturally when they get cold at night in the woods want to suction cup everything close to their body but if you do that you're destroying the loft that is actually in the full blanket I'm a cold sleeper and I sleep in the twenties with a 55% wool blanket and I'm super warm you just have to not pull it towards you in the air will get trapped in between you and the blanket I hope this helps you in future. I learned that hard way the first time I slept out in the woods with the wool blanket and nothing else 👀
hey brotha. the woobie is part of a modular sleep system. you went out there with half the equipment given. so it makes sense you used the blanket cuz thats part of the MSS. check it out. modular sleep system and how to.
Meant to say that the woobie was lighter than the wool blanket. Mine with Mylar heat sheet sewn in place, with tie outs and extra snaps weighs in at 25 ounces.
A week and a half ago I went camping and decided to take my woobie as opposed to a wool blanket for this very reason. I needed something to use in my hammock to cover the top of me, as the underquilt would do the rest. The wool blanket option would have been more bulky, and much heavier. I decided to go the lightweight route. The first night got down to the mid-30s, which proved to be a bit too cool for the woobie by itself. The second night was about 10 degrees warmer, and the woobie was just right for the job. I can believe that with the right additions, a woobie can be made to cover a wider temperature range. I hadn't thought of how the alternative to the woobie in Vietnam would have been a wool blanket, or sleeping bag, both of which would have been pretty miserable to carry, and use if they were wet, let alone the additional damp weight! I can't see how soldiers on patrol could ever carry a full blown sleeping bag with everything else they need to carry. I feel for our vets who had to spend wet nights in a jungle with rather bare bones gear.....and those today that still do more or less the same thing in other environments around the world.
My experience with the US woobie ha'nt been that positive. It isn't really breathable so you tend to sweat a lot while sleeping. Add a military poncho on the top of this and you end with a strong condensation trap. I would go for.100% wool blanket anytime. Sure it is heavier and bulkier but definitely worth the extra trouble in my opinion. Thank you for sharing your experience anyway.
I agree pretty much completely with you! I still like the woobie for use in my hammock when its not going to get very cool at night, and things will at least be a bit airy to fight the condensation issues. However, outside of that, a wool blanket is a far better choice. I almost went on a little overnight campout yesterday (before work wore me out too much to feel like still going). And based on the weather, I was going to just carry the extra weight and go with the wool blanket. Wool really is an amazing material!
@@GaerHampton Thank you for your detailed answer. I do think as well that the woobie has its uses, as a ground floor or an improved quilt for hammock sleeping as well. I just discovered your channel and appreciate the honesty of your videos, straight to the point old school bushcraft. New subscriber for you sir!
Add two large contractor plastic bags in you pack. Stuff those with those dry leaves you had laying all over the ground, tie or duck tape the bags closed. Put those between the liner and the poncho on top of you. This will save pack weight and add warmth', leave the blanket in the vehicle. Wear polypro expedition weight long johns and a wool balaclava.
I could not find GI Poncho either! Wound up with Mil Spec brand also. Poncho is coming in very handy on the bike this wet winter. Although it is that vynal type of plastic material it's too heavy and will delaminate. It's not the same as GI issue Poncho! I bought poncho liner this morning, will use on ultra light hike. It cost $29.00 much better than $500.00 ULTA lite bag! I will be using tarp and will need to find material such as Tyvek or even nylon rain fly to break wind around poncho liner. I don't do cold, will have chemical hand warmers as back up!
Yeah, I'm surprised at how heavy that poncho is. No kidding, a poncho liner is a lot cheaper than a fancy lightweight sleeping bag, and will work fine in a lot of situations (at least if it can breath and not get damp). I used mine several times in my hammock over the summer and I worked wonderfully.
Thanks. I won’t do that! Lol! I always change into fresh cloths and socks before sleep with wicking properties- like wool( now have very light synthetics). “ I think” you would have done yourself a favor by drying off and changing into dry cloths before continuing with the wool. 🤷♂️ pain in the middle of the night!
Yeah, I think that you are right. Although I've known for 25-some years now that I should change out of my day clothes before I sleep at night, I almost always just strip down to my base layers and call it good.
I'm wondering if maybe something more breathable like an oilskin poncho would work better. And I'm thinking the wool blanket would have worked better inside the poncho liner. Still, you were pushing it way below what it was rated. Good experiment though. I'm also thinking if you had a couple of trash bags of leaves under you you would have been warmer because insulated sleeping mats are painfully thin. The more insulation you have under you the better a time you'll have.
Yeah, I think that any outer shell layer that was more breathable would probably be in improvement over the poncho. Although it wasn't a truly analogous test I spent part of a night up in the mountains last summer sleeping underneath to either Soviet or East German canvas shelter half rain capes, and I didn't seem to get anywhere near as clammy. I defiantly would have been warmer with a nice pile of leaves to snuggle down into!
Yeah, I guess that's pretty unavoidable with waterproof materials. I'm pretty sure that condensation would be a problem even with a Goretex sheet given cool enough air temps!
Hi, I just subscribed to your channel, I have not tried the poncho and liner combo as a sleeping bag yet, but just an idea - maybe the original military poncho is made of a more breathable material?
Thanks for subscribing Steven! Yeah, I was wondering the same thing. One of these days when I can find a proper issue USGI poncho for sale I'll have to give it a try to see if it works better. I have been using the liner only to sleep under in moderately cool temps, and I've been pretty happy with it in that usage.
@@GaerHampton I used to have 2 British Army 58 pattern ponchos which I used for backpacking... two studded together and I can make a fully enclosed roomy tent. They are the same size as the USGI ones as they were NATO standard so allied forces could buddy up to make camp as the studs will line up on different ponchos. They are more heavyweight (nearly 2lb than the just over 1lb USGI version and the 58 pattern down sleeping bag was designed to stud to the inside of the poncho in this configuration. I never got the issue sleeping bag, but I tried it with my sleeping bag and the condensation was bad. However, when my ponchos wore out after about 30 years (they were used surplus when I got them) I replaced them with two USGI ones because they were lighter, packed up smaller, liked the woodland camo for stealth wild camping and I also got a USGI poncho liner at the same time. I had no problem with condensation with a USGI poncho with woobie or sleeping bag, but i do when I make an enclosed shelter. I believe that's more because of the air I'm breathing out, and that's why I use a lightweight breathable bivvy bag. It cuts drafts and any accidental contact with dampness is prevented from getting to my woobie or sleeping bag. If you know about the 'Alpha tent', the minimalist domed tent made from a poncho and diagonal flexible poles, then you can tie the liner to the poncho before fitting the support poles, and that gives you an insulated tent. Use a candle lantern or candle in a small jar and it's surprising how warm it gets. Better to use the poncho as overhead small tarp shelter with a bivvy bag, woobie or sleeping bag, or combination of the two depending on the overnight temperatures. I also modified my woobie by feeding cinch cords through the ends (get inside the edging webbing) so I close the ends up and put snaps down the long sides to close it up. That way it makes it a more effective summer bag and it can be used as an insulating cocoon to go on the outside of a hammock with a tarp set up. Yes the Mil-Tec ponchos aren't quite as long as genuine military surplus NATO standard ones.
No they aren't breathable, you get condensation around the neck and shoulders, but as there's plenty of air circulating, especially if you put the back over your backpack, it's not too bad. I only use it as a waterproof in heavy rain, light to medium I have a lightweight breathable jacket and keep that on underneath the poncho to stop any condensation. I also wear gaiters that come to just below my knees and the poncho hangs about knee level so the most I get is wet knees when it flaps a bit, the rest of me is dry. Most of the time I don't bother with over trousers unless it's very cold weather with wind chill.
It looks like your poncho outer has a pvc lining which is 100% waterproof, but also 0% breathable. Therefore it is holding all your body heat in, including any moisture that the body releases. I would suggest getting a poncho outer that does not have a pvc internal lining, so the the moisture can escape. This means you will also lose some heat, but I would rather lose a little heat and still be dry.
Wrong setup and missing casualty blanket (survival blanket). Very common mistake. Layer poncho, then casualty blanket, then wool, then woobie. The 3 inner layers should fold over you the opposite direction from the poncho. Then snap the poncho together. This prevents heat escaping on the side. Ofcourse in warmer weather you can use un-needed layers as padding under you.
I only have one woobie, and I have slept under it to temps down to the upper 50s at night, underneath a tarp shelter (in a hammock), or even out in the open on the ground, with great success. Not wrapping yourself in a rain poncho prevents the dampness problem. Two woobies would obviously be at least twice as warm (probably even a bit warmer with the air trapped between them. However you'd probably have to at least tie the corners together to try to keep the two of them somewhat together as the fabric that they are made out of is really slick on itself. It would make for a very lightweight sleep system, even doubled up.
From my experience, your doing it to bam right. This is what I was told. Just remember, when your shivering your still alive. And that's all that counts for the military. If you want comfort, next time think twice before signing your name on A dotted line! Pro tip: put a bunch of dry tree leaves between your poncho and woobey, it really helps.
Sounds about right, lol! The more that I learn of military history, the more I discover that night time accommodations for troops on any sort of action are usually very rough at best. In the (American) Civil War, there were a good number of times where the sunset on the battlefield and the soldiers were just told to bed down right where they were with their arms. And some guys would dump their blankets along side the road as they were marching because they wanted to carry less weight.
There’s a gear junkie group on Facebook. I got a Vietnam era Pancho. In new condition from a guy. He told me he had a bunch of them, he said in the 80 they used to use them as dropcloth for painting Sad to say.
Yeah, I would imagine that a layer of clothing above might help act as a buffer for some of that clamminess, or at the very least It would buy you more time before the moisture would build up to an annoying level. I'm pretty sure that I was wearing a hat that night, especially due to the fact that my head wasn't inside a sleeping bag hood.
Modern wool blankets are nothing like the 17th and 18th century blankets or the Hudson Bay blankets the Hudson Bay blankets are pure wool the new arm blankets are made for indoors which modern steam heating systems and modern home systems have made the house warmer so that they don't need the full wool so they're mixed with cotton to allow it to release some of that heat which also makes it really bad in the rain every soul is great in the rain no it's not not to Modern blankets because of that cotton blend if you can find it and pay for it a full wool stick blanket or jacket can anything else you're going to get wet you're going to freeze and that is a dangerous Trend that's going on in a survival community and camping Community is this thinking even take one of these modern blankets out in the woods sleep in it you can't they used to be able to do it with the old blankets but not the new ones
Absolutely! I have a Hudson Bay point blanket at home. There certainly is a HUGE difference between it and these Swiss knockoff blankets! Pure wool blankets are so much better than crappy, cheap "wool" blends.
I used this set-up almost to a tee while in the Marine Corps. The Usgi poncho would be slightly more breathable, but would be less waterproof. Thus, there is a tradeoff. We would use your setup down to about 32-35 degrees, but I always wore my m-65 field jacket w/ liner. Wooly pulley sweater, and longjohns or polypro. The saying in Recon was "Pack light, Freeze at night".
"Pack light, Freeze at night" That sounds about right! But it's not like you have much of a choice when you need to move and can't carry a bunch of junk in a big pack. I'm beginning to get tempted to go out and use this setup again, with a few modifications from what I've learned from viewers. Maybe I'll have to do some sort of really minimal gear military surplus overnight challenge. Thanks for your service camping uncomfortably!
@@GaerHampton I've tried quite a bit of setups. I'm long out of the military now, but I swear by the Wilderness Innovation Personal Survival Blanket these days. The primary benefit of the PSB is in the way it handles moisture. I have one PSBT (tall) and 2 PSBL (large) size. The blankets weigh more than the poncho liner itself (almost double) 3lbs 11oz and 4lbs 8oz, but they are water repellent up to moderate rain and can keep you warm when soaked. I figure it's close to the weight of the poncho and poncho liner together. I can sleep in my underwear (only) at ~ 30f comfortably using the same model thermarest as yours (I'm a warm sleeper).
I've slept at 25f in this setup, but I needed silkweight and heavyweight polypros and my feet were slightly cold.
God I hated the wooly pulley!
Back in the day this sleep system was our go to in the field artillery. If you sleep with both ends open, you won't get so much condensation. If you also sleep with your boots on but untied and loose and something on your hands and head to trap in your body heat, you will also stay warmer that way. But the main key to this system is to not get in it with wet or damp clothing if possible and not so many layers that you start sweating.
I went to Wilderness Innovations for my Poncho/hammock combination & liners. I wasn’t even warm in the stupid woobie , in Vietnam. I ended up using it as a blood sponge, after a mortar attack. It works for low crawling, when your hands are bleeding, & you don’t want any more contamination in you wounds, but I’ve never missed it in 50 yrs. Cheap is pretty much COLD! A deal isn’t necessarily a deal, because its cheap! Most camping equipment is marketed for Boy Scouts, size wise, also! Don’t waste your money on cheap, because you will end up getting quality, and bought cheap too, you won’t use again. I appreciated the honesty of you review & hope you had a hot drink in the morning, you deserved one!
Thanks! And thanks for your service & sacrifice! Yeah, I've pretty much eliminated my woobie from any cool weather usage. I had thought that it worked pretty well on its own in very mild overnight temps....which it can....if the air is very dry. But this past week I used it for a few nights out backpacking, and was again disappointed by it. It sure doesn't breathe worth a damn! The air at night got rather damp, and as a result, I felt pretty sticky under the woobie in my hammock. Oh well, I guess that you can't expect a thin polyester or nylon government surplus quilt to perform like something made out of wool or down! I'll have to check out Wilderness Innovations' gear. It looks like some good stuff. Yes, you might as well skip buying cheap gear, because it usually costs you more in the long run to buy a proper replacement. I have good gear that I bought 20 years ago that I'm still using, and haven't had to replace due to it wearing out.
I still have my first issued poncho liner and woobie from 1984. It’s held up better than I have over the years lol. Great video.
The poncho and liner shouldn't be used as a straight sleeping bag without unsnapping sections unless you are in temperatures below 0 Celsius.Above that, you need space between you and the sleep system because the poncho itself is water proof, and does not allow moisture from your body to escape. Below zero, the moisture is trapped, but will collect as frost on the poncho itself, and will not get you wet.
Yeah this isn't designed to be camping gear, it's meant to shelter troops with efficient costs and weight penalties. Intended to be something you put over your uniform and whatever seasonal gear you are issued. a way to add ventilation would be to tie some shock cord to the hood and hang it high, so it adds an air space above you with a chimney to vent moisture.
Love those Hudson Bay blankets -- but if you're going to hike with one, you might need a frame pack and tumpline!
When I picked up one of those Mil-Tec ponchos they were still urethane-coated ripstop (now PVC coated polyester) and my main shelter plan was to use a basic bivy bag under the poncho tarp. My aftermarket hooded woobie can be worn under the poncho as an insulating layer when active, or as the same when inside the bivy at night. I've spent many nights near or below freezing with a 1/2 in foam pad and no tarp, so today's setup adds a decent air mattress and if needed, a good bag/quilt. Thanks for your report and conclusions -- I guess it was too much to hope for a different result!
I am not surprised by your analysis sir. I owned both a US woobie and one of those swiss army blanket copy. First, the woobie itself is really not breathable and I sweated a lot sleeping only with it in summertime (never used it in combination with a poncho), and the blanket is ok as you said for a car back up but it is not great. Genuine military ones are far better in general.
Thank you fot the review, nice and honnest.
You might want to try adding a emergency blanket/tarp. Put the emergency blanket on the inside of the poncho and then put the woobie blanket on top of that, snap the poncho together and have a very warm sleep system. Enjoy
Been using a Ranger roll woobie and poncho, with and SOL Mylar double size sheet pinned to the woobie, for years. SOL is tougher and not as noisy as the cheaper Mylar. It will take you down to 30F no problem so long as you have sufficient seasonal clothing. I often stick my boots in the bottom of the bag once it is closed also by large safety pins and open up the bag and drape it over me like a quilt. A real issue poncho 1960s-90s is longer and wider. I’m a former Cod War Sgt.
I've found the woobie, over an 80/20 (Harbor Freight) Wool Blanket using the Poncho as a Tarp works well here in the Mountains of E. TN down to freezing temps. I do sleep on top of a Grabber reflective tarp with a 3/4 Thermarest to eliminate ground cold. I have used the woobie attached to the poncho and just thrown it over me and the wool blanket loosely on top of the same ground set up when a tarp just wasn't necessary with good luck.
I recommend adding a sheet of Tyvek between the liner and the outer shell. Ultralight backpackers use it as a ground tarp, due to the light weight, but I found that it works very well as a breathable waterproof barrier as well. Similar to Gore Tex, but much more affordable.
There are multiple sellers on Ebay for sheets cut to any size. I recommend washing it on the gentle cycle with cold water, to soften it up and make it not crinkle or noisy. It won't affect the durability at all, the stuff is great!
If you use it as the second to outermost layer, then the moisture will condense between the two sheets, leaving you dry inside. It is still a bit clammy, but not nearly as bad as having a total vapor barrier. Plus, if you go to bed with somewhat damp cloths on (not sopping wet obviously), you'll dry out a little bit through the night by pushing the water out through the membrane. I won't say you'll be completely dry, but it does make a difference!
Within the past year I've actually bought a couple of Tyvek sheets for use as lightweight backpacking ground tarps. Oddly enough, until you just pointed this out, I didn't know that Tyvek was breathable! I just figured that it was impermeable to all moisture. I need to give this use a shot, as it sounds like a very good idea! I've also known about washing Tyvek to soften it, but up until now I haven't done it as I wondered if doing so might cause the material to lose a bit of its waterproof characteristics.
Wiggys made clothing and Lamolite for the coldest places on earth. Perhaps they still do.
nice honest review!
i suggest using as tarp , and sleep under , cover whit liner , sweet dreams !!!
I just got the Dutch Army liner Gareth this set up was called a doss bag by the British Army and slackers are called dossers as the laziest would be the last to get out of their bags 😉
Hope you have a great weekend buddy, all the best
Roo
Nice name! Hopefully the Dutch version is a it more breathable than the U.S. one. (which could still do a bit better job in that department even when used without the poncho) Congratulations on hitting 1000 subs!
@@GaerHampton I've not seen the US version but I guess they're similar Gareth not at 1000 subscribers yet but just got a big boost from James at Harshman Hills he's doing a giveaway at the moment if you're not subscribed to him check it out 👍
All the best
Roo
Stuffed by poncho liner un my sleeping bag. Shelter half on rear deck of tank. Poncho over everything. Did this during the winter
It dries quickly and was as warm and as light as the issue wool blanket at the time to 55-60 F. Viet Nam temps went from 100 down to 55 at night. With extra clothes and dry sleep shirt and socks you can go down to 45F depending on what your wearing. Add a SOL Mylar heat sheet or Mylar bivy and you can go down to 30 F. Done it for years. GI s needed something light as mission gear was heavy. Think of it as part of a system not as a sleeping bag.
I tried this when I was in the Army and that outer shell (poncho) just isn't breathable, so your moisture gets trapped, gets cold, then you're cold or wet or both. The poncho liner I've heard is rated to about 50 degrees. I typically will use it as a liner for my 40*F down sleeping bag to take that sucker to lower temps, or I'll use it when temps won't go below 60*F.
The practice, if it really started in the jungles of Vietnam, started in a climate where you were wet anyway and this probably kept you a little less wet.
Jerry, I think that you have a great point about the poncho possibly keeping guys at a somewhat drier state of dampness in the jungle. I really like the poncho liner itself. I had great success using it as a blanket in my hammock over the summer. I seemed to work great for temps down to maybe the mid 50s.
Yea would definitely use the liner by itself and set the poncho up as a tarp over me.
Great video and information Sir!! I just subscribed to your channel . Thanks much and blessings 😇 🇺🇸
I hope you enjoy the videos!
nope it did the same for me too! I put snaps and shock cord on mine( woobie ) its great in warm weather and I use it for a sleeping liner
I even use a under quilt on hammock
Great video
As for the sleep system itself I would definitely recommend keeping the wool blanket with you and I also have a standard usdi poncho not the miltec reproductions that definitely makes a huge difference because it will not let you get very moist therefore you're not trying to warm water while you're trying to warm yourself LOL I think you should try using your plush but lock on the ground as your roll and use your poncho as your shelter simply because the plush is better for that until you get a regular USG I punch
Plash palatka* on the ground
I'm an avid user the wool blanket and that is not couch potato use either I use it in the field all the time if you let it flop over you and don't pull it towards you the loft is there a lot of people naturally when they get cold at night in the woods want to suction cup everything close to their body but if you do that you're destroying the loft that is actually in the full blanket I'm a cold sleeper and I sleep in the twenties with a 55% wool blanket and I'm super warm you just have to not pull it towards you in the air will get trapped in between you and the blanket I hope this helps you in future. I learned that hard way the first time I slept out in the woods with the wool blanket and nothing else 👀
I use a sleep bag clover GI issue and woobies @ 60 Degs under 48 Deg I used 2 woobies and the clover sleep well
hey brotha. the woobie is part of a modular sleep system. you went out there with half the equipment given. so it makes sense you used the blanket cuz thats part of the MSS. check it out. modular sleep system and how to.
Meant to say that the woobie was lighter than the wool blanket. Mine with Mylar heat sheet sewn in place, with tie outs and extra snaps weighs in at 25 ounces.
A week and a half ago I went camping and decided to take my woobie as opposed to a wool blanket for this very reason. I needed something to use in my hammock to cover the top of me, as the underquilt would do the rest. The wool blanket option would have been more bulky, and much heavier. I decided to go the lightweight route. The first night got down to the mid-30s, which proved to be a bit too cool for the woobie by itself. The second night was about 10 degrees warmer, and the woobie was just right for the job. I can believe that with the right additions, a woobie can be made to cover a wider temperature range. I hadn't thought of how the alternative to the woobie in Vietnam would have been a wool blanket, or sleeping bag, both of which would have been pretty miserable to carry, and use if they were wet, let alone the additional damp weight! I can't see how soldiers on patrol could ever carry a full blown sleeping bag with everything else they need to carry. I feel for our vets who had to spend wet nights in a jungle with rather bare bones gear.....and those today that still do more or less the same thing in other environments around the world.
My experience with the US woobie ha'nt been that positive. It isn't really breathable so you tend to sweat a lot while sleeping. Add a military poncho on the top of this and you end with a strong condensation trap. I would go for.100% wool blanket anytime. Sure it is heavier and bulkier but definitely worth the extra trouble in my opinion. Thank you for sharing your experience anyway.
I agree pretty much completely with you! I still like the woobie for use in my hammock when its not going to get very cool at night, and things will at least be a bit airy to fight the condensation issues. However, outside of that, a wool blanket is a far better choice. I almost went on a little overnight campout yesterday (before work wore me out too much to feel like still going). And based on the weather, I was going to just carry the extra weight and go with the wool blanket. Wool really is an amazing material!
@@GaerHampton Thank you for your detailed answer. I do think as well that the woobie has its uses, as a ground floor or an improved quilt for hammock sleeping as well. I just discovered your channel and appreciate the honesty of your videos, straight to the point old school bushcraft. New subscriber for you sir!
@@freddmi5212 Thanks! I'm glad you like the videos!
Has anybody tried a woobie with the Snugpak jungle bag? Together they should be pretty warm
Add two large contractor plastic bags in you pack.
Stuff those with those dry leaves you had laying all over the ground, tie or duck tape the bags closed.
Put those between the liner and the poncho on top of you. This will save pack weight and add warmth', leave the blanket in the vehicle.
Wear polypro expedition weight long johns and a wool balaclava.
That would definitely be warmer and lighter than that somewhat sorry excuse for a "wool" blanket ;)
I could not find GI Poncho either! Wound up with Mil Spec brand also. Poncho is coming in very handy on the bike this wet winter. Although it is that vynal type of plastic material it's too heavy and will delaminate. It's not the same as GI issue Poncho!
I bought poncho liner this morning, will use on ultra light hike. It cost $29.00 much better than $500.00 ULTA lite bag! I will be using tarp and will need to find material such as Tyvek or even nylon rain fly to break wind around poncho liner. I don't do cold, will have chemical hand warmers as back up!
Yeah, I'm surprised at how heavy that poncho is. No kidding, a poncho liner is a lot cheaper than a fancy lightweight sleeping bag, and will work fine in a lot of situations (at least if it can breath and not get damp). I used mine several times in my hammock over the summer and I worked wonderfully.
Thanks. I won’t do that! Lol! I always change into fresh cloths and socks before sleep with wicking properties- like wool( now have very light synthetics). “ I think” you would have done yourself a favor by drying off and changing into dry cloths before continuing with the wool. 🤷♂️ pain in the middle of the night!
Yeah, I think that you are right. Although I've known for 25-some years now that I should change out of my day clothes before I sleep at night, I almost always just strip down to my base layers and call it good.
I'm wondering if maybe something more breathable like an oilskin poncho would work better. And I'm thinking the wool blanket would have worked better inside the poncho liner. Still, you were pushing it way below what it was rated. Good experiment though.
I'm also thinking if you had a couple of trash bags of leaves under you you would have been warmer because insulated sleeping mats are painfully thin. The more insulation you have under you the better a time you'll have.
Yeah, I think that any outer shell layer that was more breathable would probably be in improvement over the poncho. Although it wasn't a truly analogous test I spent part of a night up in the mountains last summer sleeping underneath to either Soviet or East German canvas shelter half rain capes, and I didn't seem to get anywhere near as clammy. I defiantly would have been warmer with a nice pile of leaves to snuggle down into!
I find that condensation is pretty bad no matter the poncho you use, Ive used the Bundeswehr poncho and the Mil-tec with similar results.
Yeah, I guess that's pretty unavoidable with waterproof materials. I'm pretty sure that condensation would be a problem even with a Goretex sheet given cool enough air temps!
Hi, I just subscribed to your channel, I have not tried the poncho and liner combo as a sleeping bag yet, but just an idea - maybe the original military poncho is made of a more breathable material?
Thanks for subscribing Steven! Yeah, I was wondering the same thing. One of these days when I can find a proper issue USGI poncho for sale I'll have to give it a try to see if it works better. I have been using the liner only to sleep under in moderately cool temps, and I've been pretty happy with it in that usage.
@@GaerHampton I used to have 2 British Army 58 pattern ponchos which I used for backpacking... two studded together and I can make a fully enclosed roomy tent. They are the same size as the USGI ones as they were NATO standard so allied forces could buddy up to make camp as the studs will line up on different ponchos. They are more heavyweight (nearly 2lb than the just over 1lb USGI version and the 58 pattern down sleeping bag was designed to stud to the inside of the poncho in this configuration. I never got the issue sleeping bag, but I tried it with my sleeping bag and the condensation was bad.
However, when my ponchos wore out after about 30 years (they were used surplus when I got them) I replaced them with two USGI ones because they were lighter, packed up smaller, liked the woodland camo for stealth wild camping and I also got a USGI poncho liner at the same time. I had no problem with condensation with a USGI poncho with woobie or sleeping bag, but i do when I make an enclosed shelter. I believe that's more because of the air I'm breathing out, and that's why I use a lightweight breathable bivvy bag. It cuts drafts and any accidental contact with dampness is prevented from getting to my woobie or sleeping bag.
If you know about the 'Alpha tent', the minimalist domed tent made from a poncho and diagonal flexible poles, then you can tie the liner to the poncho before fitting the support poles, and that gives you an insulated tent. Use a candle lantern or candle in a small jar and it's surprising how warm it gets.
Better to use the poncho as overhead small tarp shelter with a bivvy bag, woobie or sleeping bag, or combination of the two depending on the overnight temperatures. I also modified my woobie by feeding cinch cords through the ends (get inside the edging webbing) so I close the ends up and put snaps down the long sides to close it up. That way it makes it a more effective summer bag and it can be used as an insulating cocoon to go on the outside of a hammock with a tarp set up.
Yes the Mil-Tec ponchos aren't quite as long as genuine military surplus NATO standard ones.
@@blackboardbloke Great ideas and info!
No they aren't breathable, you get condensation around the neck and shoulders, but as there's plenty of air circulating, especially if you put the back over your backpack, it's not too bad. I only use it as a waterproof in heavy rain, light to medium I have a lightweight breathable jacket and keep that on underneath the poncho to stop any condensation.
I also wear gaiters that come to just below my knees and the poncho hangs about knee level so the most I get is wet knees when it flaps a bit, the rest of me is dry.
Most of the time I don't bother with over trousers unless it's very cold weather with wind chill.
Nam had its share of mountains. It wasn't all jungle.
It looks like your poncho outer has a pvc lining which is 100% waterproof, but also 0% breathable. Therefore it is holding all your body heat in, including any moisture that the body releases. I would suggest getting a poncho outer that does not have a pvc internal lining, so the the moisture can escape. This means you will also lose some heat, but I would rather lose a little heat and still be dry.
Wrong setup and missing casualty blanket (survival blanket). Very common mistake. Layer poncho, then casualty blanket, then wool, then woobie. The 3 inner layers should fold over you the opposite direction from the poncho. Then snap the poncho together. This prevents heat escaping on the side. Ofcourse in warmer weather you can use un-needed layers as padding under you.
Hence the need and upgrade to gortex...
What do you think about us I g the poncho as a tarp and having 2 woobies?
That would probably work pretty well. It would be warmer, and shouldn't have the moisture issue.
@@GaerHampton keep me posted if you try it. I am considering it as a possibility.
I only have one woobie, and I have slept under it to temps down to the upper 50s at night, underneath a tarp shelter (in a hammock), or even out in the open on the ground, with great success. Not wrapping yourself in a rain poncho prevents the dampness problem. Two woobies would obviously be at least twice as warm (probably even a bit warmer with the air trapped between them. However you'd probably have to at least tie the corners together to try to keep the two of them somewhat together as the fabric that they are made out of is really slick on itself. It would make for a very lightweight sleep system, even doubled up.
From my experience, your doing it to bam right. This is what I was told. Just remember, when your shivering your still alive. And that's all that counts for the military. If you want comfort, next time think twice before signing your name on A dotted line! Pro tip: put a bunch of dry tree leaves between your poncho and woobey, it really helps.
Sounds about right, lol! The more that I learn of military history, the more I discover that night time accommodations for troops on any sort of action are usually very rough at best. In the (American) Civil War, there were a good number of times where the sunset on the battlefield and the soldiers were just told to bed down right where they were with their arms. And some guys would dump their blankets along side the road as they were marching because they wanted to carry less weight.
There’s a gear junkie group on Facebook. I got a Vietnam era Pancho. In new condition from a guy. He told me he had a bunch of them, he said in the 80 they used to use them as dropcloth for painting Sad to say.
They probably wouldn't have done that if they knew that 30 later it would be so hard to find USGI ponchos!
@@GaerHampton That’s exactly what he was saying. lol
Correction: waterproof
Check out the nine minute mark:
th-cam.com/video/UiTCF4v7_1I/w-d-xo.html
Put your feet in your backpack . Put clothes on top off you not on you. Nightcap ?
Yeah, I would imagine that a layer of clothing above might help act as a buffer for some of that clamminess, or at the very least It would buy you more time before the moisture would build up to an annoying level. I'm pretty sure that I was wearing a hat that night, especially due to the fact that my head wasn't inside a sleeping bag hood.
don't believe you slept in it, or you would no moisture is not a issue
Modern wool blankets are nothing like the 17th and 18th century blankets or the Hudson Bay blankets the Hudson Bay blankets are pure wool the new arm blankets are made for indoors which modern steam heating systems and modern home systems have made the house warmer so that they don't need the full wool so they're mixed with cotton to allow it to release some of that heat which also makes it really bad in the rain every soul is great in the rain no it's not not to Modern blankets because of that cotton blend if you can find it and pay for it a full wool stick blanket or jacket can anything else you're going to get wet you're going to freeze and that is a dangerous Trend that's going on in a survival community and camping Community is this thinking even take one of these modern blankets out in the woods sleep in it you can't they used to be able to do it with the old blankets but not the new ones
Absolutely! I have a Hudson Bay point blanket at home. There certainly is a HUGE difference between it and these Swiss knockoff blankets! Pure wool blankets are so much better than crappy, cheap "wool" blends.
That thing is so overrated
Useful in warm weather? Yes. Beyond that.....I don't really think so. But you sure read how people are absolutely in love with them!
@@GaerHampton only because its what we were issued so all most of us had on us to sleep.
Mit-tec stuff is good quality. Rothco is crap. Stay away from Rothco stuff.