Concentrating Solar Thermal
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2024
- Beyond Zero Emissions intends to transform Australia from a 19th century fossil fuel based economy to a 21st century renewable powered clean tech economy with no carbon emissions. Sharon Shostak met up with some local residents/BZE volunteers who have taken the initiative to build a model to demonstrate a concentrating solar thermal plant, a technology beginning to proliferate in many countries but sadly remiss in Australia.
Music excerpt by Norm Appel
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Hello from Russia! Here, people do not pay attention to renewable energy sources, but mineral oil once completed, or will be prohibitively expensive, and then the public will pay attention to solar energy. You give the opportunity today to understand that the energy of the sun for the future. I am also planning to create its own hub Solar concentrator water heating capacity of 6 kW, but not sure that people will show interest in him. But I will strive to ensure that society has realized the benefits of using solar energy in private houses. Great work is done by you, thanks!
*Great **Generater.Systems** so far. We have the same brand just a little less power. This one is so much quieter then our first one. Great buy*
I drove past the solar farm goin to las Vegas and said wow what is that! It was so bright . This video did an excellent job explaining what that was. Great job Richard and Sapoty
Nice video and great hope for the future. Not all carbon emissions are “bad” such as CO2. We need CO2 for plants to grow and plant in return give us oxygen. But for making cement, steel, aluminum and basically any solar infrastructure we build can only be made from hydrocarbons and coal. Thank you.
Very crisp and entirety full of information
Good work you Aussies. All your points are correct. The only problem is the government, just like here in North America. . . Mark Jacobson at Stanford University has a plan to convert all of NA to Wind, Solar, Hydro and Geothermal. He has determined the cost including new grids required and it all works. His plan would make more jobs and is good for the trade balance. It is beautiful economics.
crystal clear, very well expained, greetings
The future of the world is looking bright. Keep it up guys. In the US we are trying hard to break free from all things harmfull to the envirnment.
i respect your efforts. god willing you all will be running on renewable energy.
Why do you respect their efforts? Their efforts are to pursue a failed idea with half-ass amateur nonsense. You respect that, douche? Maybe respect efforts that are scientifically advanced and work and not a damn waste of time and energy.
Kube Dog exactly that is why I respect their efforts as they still have hope and delivering their time and energy for what they believe..... unlike others who follow the world leaders they them self are aspiring to be a energy leader they spend time energy on what they believe rather spending on what greedy douche believes....I know it will hurt you
Thermal solar is a proven technology with multiple working plants around the world. This is a tweak on that and there is a working model like this in Port Augusta.
Appreciation and respect from Pakistan..
Good bless, you awesome Australians!
what he show and say make sense, I pay my respect
There are salts that are already liquid state, like Perchlorate, which is what thermosolar plant use.
can I make a suggestion... instead of burning the biomass, put it through an anaerobic digester to capture the methane & digestate fertiliser. The methane (CH4) can be stored and put through a fuel cell like a redox cube which uses the Hydrogen atoms to convert directly to electricity and the hot water used in community heating.
Great explanation, hope teachers use it in classrooms as the explanations are succinct and easy to understand.
Thanks for your efforts! Great job and idea creating that demo model. I wish you all the best.
''So the cool salt goes up the tower''
Ok - HOW?
you train them? You sing a song to the salt? How does the salt ''goes up the tower''?
Glad someone else has commented on this. I was thinking the exact same thing. Surely it would already require the use of electricty to do this before it's even generated any of its own.
This is a very clever idea and a great explanation. However I am not a fan of destroying the countryside with a ton of mirrors or solar panels for that matter. Seems to me that if we looked at the horrible inefficient building methods, corrected those, then less power would be required. Example, homes having their hvac pipe and evaporator coils in the attic. I have never understood why they would take metal pipe, install it through the hot dusty attic which can reach temperatures of 140 degrees+ in the summer. Wrap insulation around them then proceed to pump cold air through them. The thickness of outside walls should be much thicker and the wall studs should stagger between the inside and outside to stop radiant heat transferring into the house. Natural plant barriers constructed to shade outside walls of houses. A lot of a homes power requirements comes from heating and cooling. The retractable overhangs on a house being extended to reduce the sunlight from heating up the house in summer but retracting them in the winter, solar skylights for lighting. All these improvements would reduce a homes power consumption which would reduce emissions. Then nature would not become a sea of solar panels and wind turbines.
Excellent explanation, it is the concentrator with flat mirrors invented by the Italian Giovanni Francia
Very good work...I just want to know which salt gets melts at 200'c bcoz sodium chloride (nacl) which we use at home melts at 800'c
can use petrol oil under 300°
Was about to ask the same, will be nice to know the answer to what salt they had in mind.
Most likely a sodium acetate mixture, the mixtures can be customized to "melt" over a wide range of the thermal spectrum.
@@GiuseppeGibilmanno haha you’d be making a bomb using that as the solar systems would go to double that!!
Excellent model! Good job you guys. :)
Idiot.
What's your problem?
Златко Попов don't worry, Kube Dog accidentally looked in to one of the mirrors :)
@@НинадаТарапицца 🔴 What Is Islam?
🔴 Islam is not just another religion.
🔵 It is the same message preached by Moses, Jesus and Abraham.
🔴 Islam literally means ‘submission to God’ and it teaches us to have a direct relationship with God.
🔵 It reminds us that since God created us, no one should be worshipped except God alone.
🔴 It also teaches that God is nothing like a human being or like anything that we can imagine.
🌍 The concept of God is summarized in the Quran as:
📖 { “Say, He is God, the One. God, the Absolute. He does not give birth, nor was He born, and there is nothing like Him.”} (Quran 112:1-4) 📚
🔴 Becoming a Muslim is not turning your back to Jesus.
🔵 Rather it’s going back to the original teachings of Jesus and obeying him.
More .....
You have amazing skills in electronics.
Amazing video! How do you insulate it to the point of 1% loss?
those who know the story of the “father himalaya”, an inventor born in 1868, in order to publicize his invention, decided to participate in the Universal Exhibition of St. Louis, in 1904, presenting there an even more perfect apparatus, which he called the "Pyreliophore" - that is, "I bring the fire from the Sun" - with which he managed to obtain a temperature of 3500 degrees
Today I realised that with this method possible to make electricity! And now I find this on TH-cam :D someone is 10 steps ahead. Well done guys. I thought I'm the genius 🤣
I built one of these models for real. Crescent Dunes solar energy project. Tonopah, NV. Matches this model pretty closely.
Can you please guide me on how to build a small working model of this ?
This is what Torresol energy did. They use molten salts for their installation. Their solar plant using this principle was commissioned in 2011
Great work guys. I totally agree our national energy policy is embarrassing. Don't get me started on fracking.
This setup can also be used to make salt water into sweat water at the edge of the desert and he sea and if you pump water through fast enough you have a thick sludge that you pump back to sea since is a way to actually there is much sweat water added by melting ice So lets make australia green again since it is actually using the right amount of water to turn its world back to green land and a forrest in the long run creates extra rain for itself !!!
Very good model. It is very effective teaching. Now world should adopt this method of electricity production to convert coal plant. One question from my side. Is it cost effective like wind and solar panels?
The panels in this model and the real full-size versions are just mirrors that track the sun, cheaper per sq m than solar panels. But this doesn't work at small scales below an acre or so. The tower is also costly, as are the parts to pump the salt without them corroding, but these are all challenges that have been solved.
Thank you so much ❤
nice idea! i wonder if salt tank could be underground, this hot salt tank if this could make a difference also to radiating heat from it
Wish yyou Very Well in Australia to change the way of your citizens and make them more responsible for the future of everybody on the planet, like you are yourself.
Thanks for sharing this idea I had never heard before about melt salt use; looks to me Very Very Brillant ♡♡♡♡♡♡♡
Cheers.
Future, excellent
I can't seem to find the salt that melts at 200c. It's elusive
Tell me if this is stupid:
Why not kill 2 birds with one stone and use these as desalination too in dry areas near bodies of salt water, California for example. If you run out of the steam through a turbine then condense it back to water and send it to a secondary treatment plant. The salt should melt and fall down since it is denser and doesn't turn into gas. Instead of having a closed system just have constantly new supplies of water and salt. The only downsides i see are that it is an inefficient way to desalinate water, and you have to deal with brine. But its greatly offsetting the cost of desalination by producing electricity and its not energy intensive like most desal plants. Any major flaws that i am missing???
What if you run the steam*
You're a clever man. They have one of these in Port Augusta Australia that generates power and desalinates water. They initially thought of using pools to let the salt come out of the brine to sell but gave that up because it wasn't commercial to sell the salt products.
I did some research back in 2015 to find something that operated like this but I couldn't find anything. I will research the one you mentioned. Thanks!
salt water is corrosive to the equipment, hard to find materals for that purpose but logical thinking, also deserts are the best area for solar(pv, csp) power due to thiner atmosophere maybe norther Africa (desert +ocean)
Seems the return line, from the steam turbine, would provide enough heat to run a industrial sized stirling gen/set too!
Very useful hands-on tutorial on CSP
great job guy very good demo loved it need more stuff like that in the world
I think what we need is a working model.
It works but failed: th-cam.com/video/r9IdJHNYX40/w-d-xo.html This may be due to the high operating costs compared to photo-voltaic solar power but could also have been a problem with working out the design, at such a large scale the investments get very high and at some point people will bail.
This would enhance sea water distillation plants making them more energy and financially viable.
It's a tiny dyson swarm ...
I love it
Very nice model. One way to get all the little mirrors focused one at a time is to put post-it notes over all of them, put it in the sun, then uncover one mirror and aim it, tighten it, cover it back up, and repeat for each next mirror.
Well i’m winter or in cloudy conditions over here we have just 10 percent of the light so if we do use these we need 90 percent extra mirrors and we need an extra autoshading electric filter either for every mirror included in your with refelection behind it or at strategic places and sensors to detect rolling in and out clouds at kilometers distance and when the auto shading glas activates we need to turn downward several mirrors and see that it can be used to always work at a hundred percent !!!
That's because the politicians and their "friends" will make money on the projects they favor. It's been built into the deal.
I liked the colorful flashing lights :)
good mind thinking ,very possity ,the greedy forces make laws to keep as a customer for oil
I really like it what you are doing.
It is Nitrate salt used in agriculture. The salt is continuously recycled. So no extra is required . Sea salt is not the right kind of salt.
excelente trabajo
If you think this total shit is excellent, okay, that explains why Mexico and everything south is a shithole. Because you're all idiots who can't separate good ideas from bad.
tenes razón gracias por decírmelo o no me daba cuenta kkkkk
may i know what are the materials you used in this project? how does the condenser work, the heat exchanger? what are their parts? i need more info on this pls. Kindly reply. T
his is part of the project of my child.
nowadays photovoltaic is probably cheaper .... a good question is why? the tower isn't that high when compared to a wind turbine but about equal .... the salt tank can't be that expensive nor the turbine .... I guess the answer might be not yet gone into serial production
I found solar thermal is 75% efficency so 468.75 watts per meter per an hour. Cool.
That's huge! But driving the turbine etc also reduces the total efficiency.
Hello, i'm from the future, the project in Spain was a failure. Tolal cost was 1 billion usd and now the plant is obsolete because of the new solar technologies...oh the irony.
Did not mention how salt in tank 1 is brought to and maintained thought the rest of they system @200c minimum. I would cause a real maintenance nightmare is the temp of the salt drop below where it solidifies.
Great work guys! I like the idea of using an insulated furnace to store energy.
nice model and demo guys!
You're a moron.
Can coal be used like battery but to store thermal energy instead of burning them directly?
This is awesome experimentation.. with this we could save energy even if its night time...
What Is Islam?
Islam is not just another religion.
It is the same message preached by Moses, Jesus and Abraham.
Islam literally means ‘submission to God’ and it teaches us to have a direct relationship with God.
It reminds us that since God created us, no one should be worshipped except God alone.
It also teaches that God is nothing like a human being or like anything that we can imagine.
The concept of God is summarized in the Quran as:
{ “Say, He is God, the One. God, the Absolute. He does not give birth, nor was He born, and there is nothing like Him.”} (Quran 112:1-4)
Becoming a Muslim is not turning your back to Jesus.
Rather it’s going back to the original teachings of Jesus and obeying him
How can we make sure birds don't fly to the bright light and get fried? Could you cover the tower just where bird don't see the light or perhaps a sound at a frequency we can't hear? Not sure what frequency birds hear at if that's possible.
are these plain mirrors or concave mirror......plz cearify.
Add a lazy susan and a solar powered telescope motor.
If you use saltwater/oceanwater
You are also desalinating.
AalborgCSP does that in australia growing veggies in the desert
Probably there are multiple plants by now
Can someone explain emergency shutting down the heliostat mirror?what happen if something bad happen?like someone repairing the tip of the tower before the sun come up,then he stuck his leg or hand and the sun come up......Phew we got burn human..
the insulated salt stays hot...until it loses heat via the circulating water. How long does the heat last?
Thats what they did in Las Vegas and its been working for years...
Australia has huge lobby groups in the coal industry. You know that. Solar will have a real future once the coal runs out. Believe me, I have been in the green energy field for 10 years now.
For developing solar, you need to circumvent the lobby groups. Doing small solar (panels or else) and with small wind (small wind turbines) and storing that energy with 110 volts (or 220 volts) batteries manufactured by Tesla (the Tesla Power Wall) is a good solution. Individual homes do buy that solution for sure. The result ? No more grid. No more bills. And the value of the home, as it is now autonomous, goes up by 8% in value in average and pays for the new equipment.
20m2 of solar panels = 18k US$ installed.
One wind turbine = 12k US$ installed.
2 Tesla power walls = 8k US$ installed.
Total 38k US$ installed.
And your individual home is autonomous.
You thinking is correct. But you need to apply it by circumventing the grid.
If you want to go further:
When 10% of the grid users have gone autonomous, the grid goes broke. Too much debt.
Sean Kelly
Geneva, Switzerland.
Correct. In the end, whatever the numbers are, they add value to the home. A home with an autonomous energy system is worth more than a home without. As much as a house with a swimming pool is worth more than a house without one.
People tend to forget the "value" this kind of system brings to a home. So the actual cost of the system is somehow secondary.
I am surprised at you answer. Let start over:
20m2 of solar panels = 18k US$ installed. (no molten salts here.
One wind turbine = 12k US$ installed. That's the price for a 2 kW installation.
2 Tesla power walls = 8k US$ installed. That's 2 times 1m x 0.6m x 0.1 m. It hangs on the wall.
Total 38k US$ installed.
Where the f... do you see a molten salt container ?
Here, have a look at the Aussie version:
www.tesla.com/en_AU/powerwall
You can actually break a small part of that at a small scale by creating solutions for what you use your electricity for. You can use solar thermal to create a solar cooker that cooks at night for example.
solarcooking.wikia.com/wiki/Heat_storage
should have put water in can and see it boil or a thermostat showing the heat in your model. . Great job with the rest of your model
Enhorabuena España, great done.
Nice video
Australia should be at the forefront of all these Renewable Technologies, with more political long term planning and a stronger emphasis on science they could have developed the know how and industry to be world leaders in these arts.
I understand that all houses built in Israel for the past 40-50 years have to have a Solar Thermal Collector to heat water by Law - correct me if I am wrong.
With the evacuated tube heaters that have been around now for about 30 year's that can heat water even through a layer of Snow I feel most countries that can should be implementing a similar policy.
We need these aswell as coal fired power stations.
Hi!, I have a question. Your presentation and model certainly have triggered my interest. Being a South African which have both, electricity and a water scarcity issues, I am curious. I am assuming that your saltwater feeding tank would represent seawater fed from the ocean in a coastal town scenario. Have you guys thought of developing a model which can produce both? Electricity and freshwater using the Helios static solar heating to produce desalinated water to off-set the operating cost and maybe use a small town's solid bio-waste to power your third fuel source?. Coastal towns on the arid Western Cape coast of South Africa seem to be perfect for this.
@Terry Mc 😂I get your point completely. Clearly a, location rendering access to sufficient, proportionally year-round sunlight plus abundant seawater and an urgency emanating from dwindling numbers in both electricity and fresh water supplies currently being experienced on South Africa's West Coast might be a good motivator to kick-start the bureaucracy into some action. Thank you for an outstanding presentation. I certainly can see the efficiency with which such a plant can be run
How the cold salt pumped to the tower if its not melt yet?
It is melted
Preheated to keep above 200c
ty for the video Sir
Australia need set up 50 of these they could be melting iron ore and bauxite free then selling it offshore
I'm confused is it salt or sulfur and if it's salt what kind of salt I don't think rock salt melts at 200 degrees Centigrade
This was first done by Torresol energy in Spain.
Woow, if this works it would be great ! I've been doing some research into alternative energy sources and this idea of storing heat is great :)
If this works. Right. But it doesn't. These are couple of dumb shits screwing around with a half-ass idea and looking for attention.
There's a working plant in Port Augusta. There are also plenty of working thermal solar plants in multiple locations around the world. They have a higher cost of setup but may produce power at a much lower cost once you take into account the longevity of the plant (which is still an unknown factor...suggestions are the could last at least a century).
Solar thermal works on pretty much every scale from small home solar ovens which have heat storage, to commercial solar kitchens that cook at night all the way to full working power stations.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_thermal_energy
There's always the question of cost and investment. At the smaller scale built with cheap materials they're always cost effective.
Guys, great video. Where would the salt come from originally? Would that be a possible link with desalination plants?
You could desalinate sea water through this process too.
Hi Echonetdaily! Which salt do you propose to be used by this system and why the choice is 200 degree Celsius?
The 200° Temperature, as he said, was the "Melting Point" of the "Salt", so, it shouldn't take much research time to identify the specific Salt, be it Sodium Chloride, Potassium Chloride, or another!
So, 200° was not "Chosen" for any other Reason, than that is the Minimum Temperature to Liquify the Salt, so it can be Pumped into the Tower, to the Concentrator Head, and then uses the Sun, to bring it up to 600°!
At 600°, you can easily pull out as much energy as it will deliver, and not cool below 200°, or the System will effectively be as if it was "ICED UP!" But, you could easily pull it down to 300° and keep it in Circulation!
Also, this would "Only be drawing down the temperature of the Liquid Salt, after Sunset, overnight, and before Sunrise!
Using a High Mountain as a Backdrop, in the North Side, in the Northern Hemisphere, (Flipping that around, so the High Mountain is to the South, in the Southern Hemisphere), would allow an extra Period of time, to Send Concentrated Sunlight to the Towers Receiver, from 30 Minutes, to even over an Hour! It would also start reheating it an equal earlier time, in the Morning!
On average, how much water is lost during the recycle stage? How often would you have to replenish it?
excellent travail bravo c’est très claire
i was wondering if you could also use salt water (seeing as there is an abundance of it as opposed to fresh water) to burn off the water for steam engine and reuse the salt
so the salt is melt before or after then pump up to the tower?Not understand..
great job guy very good demo
Is Australia the highest per head in carbon emissions because the amount of coal and gas exported is taken into account? BTW, at 01:48 it is stated that at around 200C salt melts. What sort of salt melts at such a relatively low temperature? Sodium chloride melts at around 800C so you must be talking about some other salt.
How col salt goes up to the concentrator?
These people need to look at the Stirling solar generator too as that makes power from the sun and has no fuel, and make power at the unit and not a a distant focal point, the focal point is shorter.
No salt water needed, but only makes power in the day, but no one said that it too couldn't be a beneficial factor of carbon cutting.
But the heat storage and controllable power production is the one big advantage of this system. If you just want electricity in daytime, you can use photovoltaics anyway, cheaper than solar stirling dishes.
I think, both technologies could complete each other. Photovoltaics for daytime, when this CSP-plant heats up the salt. In the evening, at night and in the morning, the CSP-plant steps in.
This would probably save money.
Thomas Schuster
I looked at this video again and was looking at the model they were using to make people understand how it works, and was thinking why isn't the model an actual working model , instead of wires and lights,lol,,we have models of steam engines and small sterlings that work,,if there was an actual working model then the amount of power would be scaled down, it would show that it works and not just theoretical explanations and diagrams,,but then I thought that maybe other people would start to build them and be able to make their electrical power 24/7, and then there would be no need for lager power plants like what has been built,, I'm just trying to show a point of view that maybe we could all have our own,, but it made me think why isn't it working,,lol.
Thomas Schuster
Yes I think your right all the technologies should be complementary, because I was thinking, that that area, "the foot print" could still have wind power units there as well, and PV panels could be used to help with the self contained trackers of each mirror.
Maybe that just over thinking it, but still possible.
The main person that is giving commentary in the video talks about governments and solar power and the rebate thing,,not applicable any longer since the QLD flood of Brisbane, the government don't care about solar,, I can give an example, if solar was so important and they wanted to cut green house gasses then every government building "around the world" would have every roof covered, so as to lessen the impact that those government buildings have, and save money on their budget requirements,, its bull, they don't care because that means they would have less of a budget and that means no surplus when they don't spend, rather than not spend in the first place, yes it would cost money to do it, but whats the goal that is trying to be obtained,, maybe we can see why governments don't want to lift a finger as that would mean that something was getting done than making committees to fact check the viability for living with breathable air.
how many pieces of mirror need to concentrate get 100 degree celsius when full sun . if one piece of mirror collect 20 degree then two pieces collect about 40 degree ? actually I want to understand the temperature increment per mirror .
Really good
Im looking at power plant designs and they release a lot of water as steam. How does your water condenser work so that it is a closed loop without water loss?
hi,like your work..do you have any idea of how it will cost to set this type to plant on half scale...
About 4 of us got together 3 times and built it. The electronics was pretty fiddley.
are these plain mirrors or concave mirror......plz cearify.
Hi guys, I would like to ask for advice with regards to making an actual small and portable version of the CSP. Maybe in a form of what typical generators at home look like size-wise. This would greatly benefit areas that are considered off-grid.
I'm not sure where to start, because the math and concept seems too complex to start with when adjusting it to a smaller version, I would appreciate any advice. Thank you so much!
Where can we buy that in Switzerland for our houses or balconies ?
Instead of mirror wouldn't it be better to use fresnel lens? I am also wondering if this process here could be shortened. Each element costs energy.
My first thought was similar. I laughed when I saw the stupid mirrors. I thought, if they don't have sense enough to use a parabolic dish (or trough), how could they possibly have sense enough to carry out the rest of it which is more complicated? Fresnel could work, but it would concentrate the heat/focal point downward, where the dish would focus it upward and fit their set up better. But. sure, Fresnel would work if they adapted the overall configuration to suit it. Of they could pursue fusion, tidal energy, geothermal, etc., and let their Aunt Bessie in the nursing home have her mirrors back.
Solar thermal is a proven technology with multiple working power plants around the world. They use mirrors because they're much cheaper and more practical than fresnel lenses.
You have your point, but what they are doing is simulating a big power plant that power the entire town. which mean the power plant is huge and if you expand a fresnel lens to such a big size, essentially will be like these mirror
There are lots of fresnel lens trough CST plants in existence. But Fresnel troughs are just a 1D implementation of mirrors and field heliostats are a 2D implementation (or 2D vs 3D depending on how you want to think about the geometry). Turns out for large plants, the heliostat method wins. Crescent Dunes, Ivanapah, Gemasolar in Spain a decade ago. And now a record sized 150 MW Aurora being built in South Australia now under construction (2018). The model these guys made didn't show what a real plant does in terms of sun tracking. Each heliostat has 2 axis of movement and a tracking mechanism to point the reflection of the sun at the correct point on the collector.
Check out some real systems if you think it's Fresnel trough systems for the win.
any clue why a fresnel lens is more expensive!? looks like plastic with a pattern.
can you give me some specific idea on how you built that tower for capturing the heat through sunlight???
so.. you spend all day storing the heat and not making electricity to then use it at night when most arnt using power? or does this run in the day also?
+lykenth08 It runs day and night.
steve b
Welcome to the internet
Those statistics are very embarrassing considering we get as much sun as anyone in the world and have vast amounts of unused desert. So has there been a decision of Pt Augusta yet?
We had to wait four years but yes it has one a government tender with some 80 entrants including gas developers and won with a PPA of around $70/MWh.
Ok now couple it to ocean desalination and cost efficient salt mining.