I think it's interesting to note that the Japanese do something similar to their own syllabary writing systems, the hiragana and katakana, when it comes to distinguishing voiced and unvoiced consonants. In Japanese か is pronounced "ka", but when you write が with the dakuten (the two extra dots above to the right), you get "ga", i.e. k>g. Furthermore you can turn は "ha" into ば "ba" by adding the dakuten (h>b), or you can make ぱ "pa" by adding the handakuten (h>p). Point is, it's interesting to see how different cultures have come up with surprisingly similar solutions to the same problems.
yes. I laughed so much. Even though I am very concerned about this. It seems Dr. Crawford doesn´t take this extremely terrible threat of christan influence very seriously.
There's actually a third style of the younger futhark, "staveless runes". They are however very rare as inscriptions, they were probably mainly used as a sort of short-hand when carving runes in wood for more mundane things, not very ornamental. Some of the few that exist seem to be copies of some kind of legal documents that were probably originally carved in wood. (Like describing the family tree that decided who would inherit a farm.)
The rarity of the stavless runes very much depends on the region though. In the north of Sweden (geographical middle, but poitical "south north") you will find many, if not a majority, of the inscriptions includes at least some stavless runes. The runes for U, R and S seems to have been local favorits to have in staveless runes. But you also have whole stones written with staveless runes. Can be good to know if someobe wants a regional flare to their runes 😉
@@sirseigan Yes, but I meant rare among inscriptions in general. The total number of known inscriptions in that area is about 60, compared to about 1500 in Uppland, and 3700 in Sweden as a whole.
Thank you for this informative video ! I live 30 miles from 'the rök stone', will now go and visit it again! Since rök (or Rauk in gutnish) means stone - it is pretty much another case of 'Salsa sauce' 😅
Just wanted to say thank you for your content my dream of being a professor in the studies of norse mythology and Scandinavian history in genral stay golden
Hello Dr. Crawford, I hope you're well and I understand you're no doubt very busy. You mention you've worked on Assassin's Creed: Valhalla and previously you've mentioned working for Disney, which is fantastic they're emplyoying someone as competent and qualified as what you are. I can't help but wonder if Sony Santa Monica has approached you as well? I sincerely hope they have. Thank you for all your work and providing the community with education as good as this - it truly is a gift.
I'm a Minnesotan and I was going to mention the fact that there are Runes used at U.S. Bank Stadium for the Vikings. When I went to see the ship there, I was disappointed when I saw that they chose to use Medieval runes instead of just keeping it strictly Old Norse (Long Branch/ Short Twig) during the Viking Age... ah well, I'm just glad someone else mentioned it. Thank you, Dr. Crawford.
I love your channel. I've learned so much from your videos. thank you. I bought your translation of The Wanderers Hamaval - I enjoyed it. thanks again.
Is anyone albe to tell me what the runes would be for the term eternal in the younger futhark runes that would've been used during the height of the viking period?
Question: I've never heard an explanation for "why" the rune-set was condensed to the Younger set at all. I mean, it was 24 runes, right?, not too much to remember. What drives the literate members of a people, widespread, to deliberately make their language less comprehensible to themselves, and for that notion to actually get instituted? It just doesn't make any sense. There was no universal norse cultural collapse, and existing writings would have had the full set represented, or at least consistent subsets of the same Elder set. I'm not saying "It's aliens!" but something equally bizarre would seem to have happened there. You don't just wake up one day, forget your ABC's, and suddenly start writing notes and books with a third of the letters left out...
my theory is thus and it could be far fetched indeed: Expansion into lands west by conquest and subsequent settlement progressed and the knowledge was gleaned or gained that a certain amount of mutual intelligibility existed between Old Norse/Old English and Elder Futhark/ Anglo Frisian runes, Possible that it was a shift to a more clandestine communication. More sounds in the language combined with a decrease in symbols used as we have learned here required some runes did double or triple duty . One would almost have to be raised from birth or be totally submerged in the culture to have a full grasp on the language and the ability to transcribe runes ( who knows what and how much information about battle plans raids etc... were written on organic materials that would never have survived to medieval , much less these times) that have many different meanings almost overnight. Could it have been tactical? Ensuring that understanding would be primarily amongst deeply invested blood relations deeply trusted allies and friends? I believe that its no coincidence that the Elder Futhark fell out of use so rapidly so close to where the accepted time the Norse were on the world stage of expansion holding steadfastly to their system of beliefs while the Anglo/Saxon and Gaelic cultures of the Isles ( where a great deal of settlement and conquest was centered ) fairly quickly succumbed to Christian influence. Again ....a very" reaching for straws" opinion indeed but one that may or may not have already been put forth .
@@paulhood7316 That's an interesting way of looking at it, and in different actual circumstances I could see how that could hold some weight. For example, in an "alternate history" world like a roleplaying game, with basically medieval tech but a more sophisticated intelligence structure than what actually existed historically, I could see military/scouting codes like that being developed. Even then, however, the change is nowhere near enough to be considered "cryptography," and there would be far easier ways to accomplish it than changing the entire writing system of the homeland, which was not even under attack or duress at that time. It was the norse who acted in expeditionary forces, without any noteworthy reprisal from other lands, and they tended to simply make their own settlements if they wanted one, rather than infiltrate established towns by occupation. That's pretty much Dublin and York, as I understand it. Otherwise, individuals or small groups might migrate and mix in with foreign lands for their own reasons, but again that wouldn't affect homeland scholarship. Furthermore, even in military raids, these were small, intimate bands of adventurer-warriors who knew each other personally from home. An outsider couldn't slip an anonymous agent into their ranks to sneak looks at elaborate predetermined campaign stratagems during briefings. The vikings pretty much cruised into an area, looked around a bit, and either hit whatever target looked soft and rich, or traded for whatever profits were available. Even that happening in significant number was still some generations away at the time of the rune-set changes, and the homelands where the changes occurred still hadn't faced any serious counter-threats from outsiders, just clan feuds or internal disputes among people who already shared the same runes. So I like the flavor of your ideas, and I think in a later or more imperial setting they would apply more readily. However, they are far more plausible if we were talking about a people being oppressed by outsiders and having to adapt their culture and operations to avoid detection/tracking. Rebel groups in the roman empire, including the early christians, certainly developed multi-lingual codes, references, and shorthands like that to organize themselves under the noses of the imperial government -- which is part of why the Book of Revelation reads like something out of a sci-fi mushroom trip. Well, to be fair, it was also partly the actual result of sci-fi mushrooms trips, but that's not strictly relevant here :) So again I'm still left with... "?" Maybe Dr. Crawford knows a more historical explanation based on general principles of linguistic trends. It still seems darn odd to me.
Ja, das stimmt. Die Vimose-Kamm ist in Elder Futhark geschrieben. Sie sagt Harja oder auf Deutsch Armee. Entschuldigung für mein Deutsch. Es ist schon eine Weile her, seit ich Deutsch gelernt habe.
Thank you for discussing dotted rune variants. I’ve seen them in descriptions of runestones, but I wasn’t sure how they were used. The problem I’ve run into is that on the Fyrby runestone, the name Freystein is spelled ᚠᚱᛅᚢᛋᛏᛅᛁᚾ. But when I try to spell Freyvidr based on that, I end up with ᚠᚱᛅᚢᚢᛁᚦᛦ, with the dreaded double rune. Except in this case it’s not technically doubled, because it’s representing two very different sounds. Unfortunately it seems there was no dotted Ur variant to distinguish the ‘v’ sound from the ‘u’ sound, so I’m not sure how to write it. Then again, ᚠᚱᛅᚢ seems like a strange way to spell Frey. Seems like it should be spelled ᚠᚱᚢᛁ, which would make ᚠᚱᚢᛁᚢᛁᚦᛦ, thereby avoiding the double rune. Soooo..... 🤷♂️
Great video as always, I just want to mention that traditionally / / is used for phonemic transcription/broad transcription, [ ] is used for phonetic transcription/narrow transcription, and ⟨⟩ is used for orthography. It's kinda jarring for me to see [ ] being used to represent the Latin alphabet transliteration of the runes, as opposed to IPA transcription 😅. Keep up the great work though! 👍
@@myNamesTakin that's not what this person is referring to, they're talking about how / / and [ ] are for spelling in the IPA, not the (also phonetic) system they are romanized with.
Those "Dreaded Christianization" musical stings had me cackling hysterically
It was the jab at academic writing for me XD
Sometimes I feel like a long branch guy in a short branch world
I have the opposite problem.
I think it's interesting to note that the Japanese do something similar to their own syllabary writing systems, the hiragana and katakana, when it comes to distinguishing voiced and unvoiced consonants.
In Japanese か is pronounced "ka", but when you write が with the dakuten (the two extra dots above to the right), you get "ga", i.e. k>g. Furthermore you can turn は "ha" into ば "ba" by adding the dakuten (h>b), or you can make ぱ "pa" by adding the handakuten (h>p).
Point is, it's interesting to see how different cultures have come up with surprisingly similar solutions to the same problems.
Love the comment about the purpose of academic journals. Gave me a much needed laugh and corresponds to my own cynical take on them.
Great video, and I liked the touch with the dramatic music. ;-)
yes. I laughed so much.
Even though I am very concerned about this. It seems Dr. Crawford doesn´t take this extremely terrible threat of christan influence very seriously.
There's actually a third style of the younger futhark, "staveless runes". They are however very rare as inscriptions, they were probably mainly used as a sort of short-hand when carving runes in wood for more mundane things, not very ornamental. Some of the few that exist seem to be copies of some kind of legal documents that were probably originally carved in wood. (Like describing the family tree that decided who would inherit a farm.)
The rarity of the stavless runes very much depends on the region though. In the north of Sweden (geographical middle, but poitical "south north") you will find many, if not a majority, of the inscriptions includes at least some stavless runes. The runes for U, R and S seems to have been local favorits to have in staveless runes. But you also have whole stones written with staveless runes. Can be good to know if someobe wants a regional flare to their runes 😉
@@sirseigan Yes, but I meant rare among inscriptions in general. The total number of known inscriptions in that area is about 60, compared to about 1500 in Uppland, and 3700 in Sweden as a whole.
@@demopem Yes but ofc you are totally right; and I was not disagreing, merely adding 🙂
There's a video of a man in Sweden skating on super thin ice, and similarly, it sounds like some kind of laser blaster from star wars.
yes I was going to say that, the ice music
jonna jinton here on yt have some beautiful recordings of singing ice
@@matildas3177 yes her too
Tusen takk!Har ventet på denne😊
Thank you for this informative video ! I live 30 miles from 'the rök stone', will now go and visit it again! Since rök (or Rauk in gutnish) means stone - it is pretty much another case of 'Salsa sauce' 😅
Just wanted to say thank you for your content my dream of being a professor in the studies of norse mythology and Scandinavian history in genral stay golden
I think I need to go back to rune 101 this is some advanced Runage
Nobody expects the Dreaded Christianization
Hello Dr. Crawford, I hope you're well and I understand you're no doubt very busy. You mention you've worked on Assassin's Creed: Valhalla and previously you've mentioned working for Disney, which is fantastic they're emplyoying someone as competent and qualified as what you are. I can't help but wonder if Sony Santa Monica has approached you as well? I sincerely hope they have. Thank you for all your work and providing the community with education as good as this - it truly is a gift.
I'm a Minnesotan and I was going to mention the fact that there are Runes used at U.S. Bank Stadium for the Vikings. When I went to see the ship there, I was disappointed when I saw that they chose to use Medieval runes instead of just keeping it strictly Old Norse (Long Branch/ Short Twig) during the Viking Age... ah well, I'm just glad someone else mentioned it. Thank you, Dr. Crawford.
I'm just pleased it wasn't in Elder Futhark 😂
I love your channel. I've learned so much from your videos. thank you. I bought your translation of The Wanderers Hamaval - I enjoyed it. thanks again.
I know this is way outside of the era you focus on but I'd love to see a video on Dalecarlian runes
:: Christian Influence::
D:
I wanna write them fluently like u dr. Crawford
I propose we bring it back. Write english in one of the furtharks
@@tomrogue13 there is a futhark (futhorc) originally used for old english before the latin alphabet was used, it's called anglo-saxon runes.
Is anyone albe to tell me what the runes would be for the term eternal in the younger futhark runes that would've been used during the height of the viking period?
Question: I've never heard an explanation for "why" the rune-set was condensed to the Younger set at all. I mean, it was 24 runes, right?, not too much to remember. What drives the literate members of a people, widespread, to deliberately make their language less comprehensible to themselves, and for that notion to actually get instituted?
It just doesn't make any sense. There was no universal norse cultural collapse, and existing writings would have had the full set represented, or at least consistent subsets of the same Elder set. I'm not saying "It's aliens!" but something equally bizarre would seem to have happened there. You don't just wake up one day, forget your ABC's, and suddenly start writing notes and books with a third of the letters left out...
my theory is thus and it could be far fetched indeed: Expansion into lands west by conquest and subsequent settlement progressed and the knowledge was gleaned or gained that a certain amount of mutual intelligibility existed between Old Norse/Old English and Elder Futhark/ Anglo Frisian runes, Possible that it was a shift to a more clandestine communication. More sounds in the language combined with a decrease in symbols used as we have learned here required some runes did double or triple duty . One would almost have to be raised from birth or be totally submerged in the culture to have a full grasp on the language and the ability to transcribe runes ( who knows what and how much information about battle plans raids etc... were written on organic materials that would never have survived to medieval , much less these times) that have many different meanings almost overnight. Could it have been tactical? Ensuring that understanding would be primarily amongst deeply invested blood relations deeply trusted allies and friends? I believe that its no coincidence that the Elder Futhark fell out of use so rapidly so close to where the accepted time the Norse were on the world stage of expansion holding steadfastly to their system of beliefs while the Anglo/Saxon and Gaelic cultures of the Isles ( where a great deal of settlement and conquest was centered ) fairly quickly succumbed to Christian influence. Again ....a very" reaching for straws" opinion indeed but one that may or may not have already been put forth .
@@paulhood7316 That's an interesting way of looking at it, and in different actual circumstances I could see how that could hold some weight. For example, in an "alternate history" world like a roleplaying game, with basically medieval tech but a more sophisticated intelligence structure than what actually existed historically, I could see military/scouting codes like that being developed.
Even then, however, the change is nowhere near enough to be considered "cryptography," and there would be far easier ways to accomplish it than changing the entire writing system of the homeland, which was not even under attack or duress at that time.
It was the norse who acted in expeditionary forces, without any noteworthy reprisal from other lands, and they tended to simply make their own settlements if they wanted one, rather than infiltrate established towns by occupation. That's pretty much Dublin and York, as I understand it. Otherwise, individuals or small groups might migrate and mix in with foreign lands for their own reasons, but again that wouldn't affect homeland scholarship.
Furthermore, even in military raids, these were small, intimate bands of adventurer-warriors who knew each other personally from home. An outsider couldn't slip an anonymous agent into their ranks to sneak looks at elaborate predetermined campaign stratagems during briefings.
The vikings pretty much cruised into an area, looked around a bit, and either hit whatever target looked soft and rich, or traded for whatever profits were available. Even that happening in significant number was still some generations away at the time of the rune-set changes, and the homelands where the changes occurred still hadn't faced any serious counter-threats from outsiders, just clan feuds or internal disputes among people who already shared the same runes.
So I like the flavor of your ideas, and I think in a later or more imperial setting they would apply more readily. However, they are far more plausible if we were talking about a people being oppressed by outsiders and having to adapt their culture and operations to avoid detection/tracking.
Rebel groups in the roman empire, including the early christians, certainly developed multi-lingual codes, references, and shorthands like that to organize themselves under the noses of the imperial government -- which is part of why the Book of Revelation reads like something out of a sci-fi mushroom trip. Well, to be fair, it was also partly the actual result of sci-fi mushrooms trips, but that's not strictly relevant here :)
So again I'm still left with... "?" Maybe Dr. Crawford knows a more historical explanation based on general principles of linguistic trends. It still seems darn odd to me.
Anyway to make the charts and info bigger
never before have i seen a viking cowboy, i’m intrigued
Was ist eigenlich der frühste Beleg der Runen? Dieser Kamm aus Dänemark oder? Die Vimose-Inschriften?
Ja, das stimmt. Die Vimose-Kamm ist in Elder Futhark geschrieben. Sie sagt Harja oder auf Deutsch Armee. Entschuldigung für mein Deutsch. Es ist schon eine Weile her, seit ich Deutsch gelernt habe.
@@geirbjornfergusson1831 Ist schon ok. Man kann auch Heer statt Armee sagen, ist näher dran, weil es dann dasselbe Wort ist.
Oh man that comment about academic journals 😂
I love your scenery shots
Anyone else playing AC Valhalla trying to read everything they can in runes? Lol
Thank you for discussing dotted rune variants. I’ve seen them in descriptions of runestones, but I wasn’t sure how they were used.
The problem I’ve run into is that on the Fyrby runestone, the name Freystein is spelled ᚠᚱᛅᚢᛋᛏᛅᛁᚾ. But when I try to spell Freyvidr based on that, I end up with ᚠᚱᛅᚢᚢᛁᚦᛦ, with the dreaded double rune. Except in this case it’s not technically doubled, because it’s representing two very different sounds. Unfortunately it seems there was no dotted Ur variant to distinguish the ‘v’ sound from the ‘u’ sound, so I’m not sure how to write it.
Then again, ᚠᚱᛅᚢ seems like a strange way to spell Frey. Seems like it should be spelled ᚠᚱᚢᛁ, which would make ᚠᚱᚢᛁᚢᛁᚦᛦ, thereby avoiding the double rune. Soooo..... 🤷♂️
And I hope you had a wonderful Thanksgiving too.
they look more like phoenixes than ravens
turkish dwarves :)
Thanks Doctor, but why my Latin throat is unable to pronounce the sound of Ø?
Try to emulate the sound you make when getting punched in the gut, pretty close 😁
Ice fishing?
Great video as always, I just want to mention that traditionally / / is used for phonemic transcription/broad transcription, [ ] is used for phonetic transcription/narrow transcription, and ⟨⟩ is used for orthography.
It's kinda jarring for me to see [ ] being used to represent the Latin alphabet transliteration of the runes, as opposed to IPA transcription 😅.
Keep up the great work though! 👍
All runes spelled phoentetically
@@myNamesTakin yep, the names of the runes are spelled pretty phonetically
Yes but they only spell how the word sounds. Part of the reason they never repeat.
@@myNamesTakin sorry, I don't understand
@@myNamesTakin that's not what this person is referring to, they're talking about how / / and [ ] are for spelling in the IPA, not the (also phonetic) system they are romanized with.
The last part of this video was confusing. I thought íss made the sound /s/
Thank you Ol' Doc Norse©® for creating and sharing the videos. I would ask if you create a video about Gripir, Griping One etc.... But I had a thought after you explained the " hidden runes". Do Kings ever view( or inspect) the skald's poems? Or do much with runes?