@@wannabewumpus As long as you know that's a cop out. And you're weak for letting someone's self awareness sweep any badness of their actions under the rug.
Hypocrisy is the wrong word, it would only be hypocritical if he was saying how bad it was to do, or that people shouldn't do it. Hypocrisy has too many negative connotations that come with it
Saw this comment at the start of the vid, thought he was backing pokimane for being an “asshole”, just got to the part where he said it. Now I understand 😂
Mans knows that if he defend asshole behavior because it’s a big creator it’s gonna benefit him financially and also there all friends. I doubt he’d ever criticize Hasan for his actions or anything related to the negative behaviors he associates with, basically all he’s said is: pokimane isn’t actually in trouble she’s just getting hate because people are sexist. Not like being an asshole drives attention when your whole brand is being nice.
Ehhhh it feels like Ludwig really glazed over some facts about the cost of these cookies and a lot of this video in particular is just his personal opinion. He was more onto the journalism side of things with the Mr Beast video.
i think that’s what sets him apart from “drama journalists” like nickisnotgreen. ludwig tries to keep his personal beef out of his coverage, openly admits when he’s wrong, and acknowledges the size and scope of the issues he covers. if he was my professor i wouldn’t have dropped out of the journalism major haha
@@87bees68i agree that he is different from a lot of drama journalists in the way that he doesn’t over exaggerate things and instead takes a more level headed approach but i think that his personal bias does impact his videos and i think it shows in the ways that he talks about certain people and events it’s sometimes subtle but you or at least i can tell when he’s trying not to be super judgmental/treading lightly on a topic versus when he’s just airing things out on things/people he doesn’t personally like.
@@charliebohanna4485 racism, transphobia, homophobia, support of other people who are the same, general asshole who treats other people like shit... I mean even fucking Vaush dropped the dude.
For anyone wondering: I am pretty sure what he says at the end is "Va te faire (um) cuire un oeuf" which translates to "Go cook yourself an egg" which also carries the meaning "mind your business" or "get stuffed"
The drama doesn’t really matter. People who like her continue to like her and people who don’t like her still don’t like her. Very rarely do people change their minds
@@onemillionpercent Even then, she's still making content and money. Not too much of a change until youtube decides to get some morals which won't be anytime soon if their adblocker policy is anything to go off of.
I only just saw that you had a fact-check sheet in your description. Man, I wish every TH-camr cared enough to do something like that, but at least it makes your channel stand out from the rest, not to mention that you clearly already spend more effort on these topics than most people to begin with.
That's really my only issue here. Are the cookies expensive? Yes, so are all influencer products. Are they just the same cookies that were öulled before? Maybe, i dont care about that. But. When a influencer, who very often portrays herself as the correct moral position. Positions herself as making the correct choices. Say shit like that, its really gross. Its not what she said. Its who said it, in my opinion
Yeah that makes sense. That's very accurate. Like if XQC or Lowtiergod tells someone in chat to off themselves, I expect that. That is on brand. But if someone like lilypichu said that? Oh hell no, that would be chaos. And poki made her brand and image to be respectful and PC etc. That's fine, but that also means if she ever says unhinged crap, internet will flip, and that is totally fair. It is what it is
She just sounds like the average delusional billionaire, like the kind of person that thinks bananas cost 10$. Apparently you dont even gotta be a billionaire to be that deluded by your money
the cookies were expensive beyond belief though, even for an influencer product. she also lied multiple times in her marketing and follow ups for literally no reason when her fans will eat up whatever product she puts out anyway. not very indicative of someone in good faith on top of her comments
I like how level headed your takes always are. Every time I see people talk about this the only thing in my head is "ok but who seriously gives a shit?"
She's living rent free in these people's minds. Never liked her, never watched her, but who gives a shit if she sells overpriced cookies. Objectively speaking that's not a scam. A scam is what logan paul did with cryptozoo. What she does is what mr beast did with feastibles and beast burger, slapping their brand on something you can get for much cheaper elsewhere to get a markup.
@@rinnepyit’s not even misogyny, it’s just what happens when you have a lot of peoples attention and a lot of them are haters. Personally, I think the criticism is valid, but yeah obviously it’s more extreme since so many people hate her. I don’t like her very much either to be honest, but I’m not to the same point as people who spend all their time hating on her.
I think more people have an issue with those defending her than her actual actions. If people just said, yeah that’s a bad thing, you shouldn’t do that, the whole drama would’ve gone away by now but you have so many weirdos calling people misogynists for daring to criticise a woman or just defending her to be contrarian
Isn't it something akin to 1% or less of a recommended daily dose? 🤣🤣 which apparently took her "TWO YEARS BRO" to create. People buying what she's selling just scares me. I would never buy anything from a streamer (ironically the closest I have come is Ludwig's bidet systems which we needed new ones for our 3 hotels) yet I actually enjoy watching Poki stream Valorant. Just have her on mute and it is good times tbh.
To be honest that is the only problem I had with the whole thing in the first place - they are misleadingly marketed in basically every way. She made it sound like she personally was heavily involved in creating these cookies and worked hard for 2 years to bring her dream to life when in reality we know she's likely just involved on the marketing end for the most part, and I feel like her misleading her audience into thinking this was essentially her creation so they would buy the product is a bit scummy and I really struggle to believe she did much more than taste a few sample cookies and pick her favourite. I think it WAS her idea to put the vitamin D in it because it helped her market it as a 'healthy' snack for gamers who don't get enough sunlight, and the company just added in the smallest amount they could while still being able to say it has vitamin D, because it'd be dangerous to have a snack that has enough vitamin D that someone could reach their daily recommended dosage or some significant percentage of it from the recommended serving size of cookies because there are plenty of people who eat snacks in excess, and if they say ate a few bags of them over a couple of days they could get sick from an overdose of vitamin D. She likely didn't know or care to know if the amount of vitamin D was significant or not, she just cared that it existed for marketing purposes. Same with the gluten free and all natural ingredients thing - it allows her to market them as healthy because some people associate those things with being healthy not understanding that gluten free products only really help the health of people with celiac disease, and all natural means absolutely nothing when it comes to health because a vial of cyanide is also 100% natural. If she had just said "I am releasing my own brand of cookies so my audience is able to support me financially and get some delicious cookies in return" I couldn't have cared less. But the whole fake healthy products thing really pisses me off, because I know so many people who fall for it.
I know that it's hard to be your best self when you have to put yourself out there on the internet every day in order to make your income, but the clip of her going "I know math is hard when you're an idiot" in a patronizing voice makes me cringe so hard I shrivel up into a corn cob. If I had to watch a clip of myself acting like that I'd delete my account. I'd be so embarrassed.
Happy Birthday to your Grandfather, Ludwig. I hope he has been able to pass on a lifetime of love & knowledge to you and your sister. That's it. Because the truth is I never cared about the cookies because it's clear she needed a better writer and you are right... Admittedly I am one of those in the middle and was offended on behalf of her community but if they stand for it why the fuck should I care? It's easy to carry a torch and pitchfork it's hard to remember what for. Eventually they just get too heavy. Anyways, Enjoy your vacation.
@@00angel4200do you know how to use it in a sentence? they are cleary horrified at why people try so hard to keep assholes clean. and wants the fight to continue fighting the assholes.
This drama just feels so dumb. What she said feels out of touch, but every single popular creator is out of touch no matter how well they hide it. And the price is too high imo but I just wont buy the product for that reason, and if enough people feel the same the price will go down. It seems like it was just the perfect combination of genuine criticism mixed with poki haters mixed with out of context clips that made this such a big deal
She made it worse by trying to "explain" it. When that didnt work she resorted to "jokes". All she had to do was not say anything and it would have gone straight to "oh, thats just content creator pricing for you" like ALL the other overpriced celebrity endorsed products.
@@Barry_05I feel like Lud has called us the same things at least a few times. He literally says multiple times that he’s a millionaire. why is this any different?
Im one of the neutral viewers, and i had a thought in the back of my head that said. "Who tf cares", and you managed to make this more realistic and remove a lot of my delusions. Thank you for clarifying all of this drama, i really gotta be care about information on the internet.
well he lied cuz the product isn"t similar it's the SAME ! smae company same formula same taste same look just with some vitamin D , and people are kinda pissed of because she kept lying like she developped and credating a company out of it ...
@@damine4740And the markup is outrageous while offer a little to no added value. If she offer somewhat reasonable markup, people would less likely to make fun of it, but $7 for a 100gr of cookie? No hell way anyone outside of her audience will buy that. Unbox therapy also get the same outrage over similar case of his markup relabel phone case, it's nothing about sexism.
always impressed by how well lud understands and can articulate what actually happens as a streamer, its like he's the behind the scenes streamer that lifts the curtain showing the feelings and thoughts behind being a streamer
@@ozyssah brother, charlie is just a drama TH-camr now, he never investigates, just goes along with what the consensus is on Reddit. He's like that for literally everything he talks about
@@wumbojet I'm sorry, I don't follow Charlie. But what kind of criticism is "he never investigates". Even Ludwig in this video is just giving his insight, not "investigating".
Happy bday to your grandpa!!! I hope he does make it to 100, but a happy, healthy 100. Love how honest you are about “scams”. You’re not actually scamming anyone, but it’s funny when you call your own shit a scam 😂 Have fun in France! 🇫🇷 ❤
@@jellycatfish Thank you man. The internet needs way more positivity. It’s full of unnecessary negativity, so it doesn’t hurt to spread kind sentiments and be nice. Hope you have a great day too. 🫶🏻❤️
Ludwig, you said it perfectly. People most often latch on and become entitled to one viewpoint of a story because it’s what the general audience thinks or what you “have to believe”. We can only wish that more people suspend their disbelief and bias and do the best they can to rationalize and come up with their own opinions for both sides.
Just because it’s a group mentality doesn’t mean it’s invalid criticism. Of course it’s more extreme than it needs to be since she has so much attention from haters, but a lot of the criticism is really valid. I think it’s good she apologized after everything, so I don’t care much anymore, but it was fair criticism and her initial response was pretty bad, which she admitted.
@@Irrelevant210she’s getting more attention because who she is but that’s part of being a celebrity and making money off of it. If she didn’t then she probably wouldn’t have even been considered for the position and chosen as the face of the company. Plus as a face of a company you can’t be acting stupid and saying stupid things. You are pretty much representing the company and will be held in a bigger spotlight. Kinda how valekrae didn’t think she deserved alll the hate but wanted all the praise of her skin company. You can’t have the cake and eat it too. If a higher position person said something like her j wouldn’t have cared too much but when the face of the company attacks somebody or says something stupid I’m going to criticize the hell out of them.
More than anything, it feels like this is more of a personality issue, IMO. If you talk down on people and have a history of doing so, people will remember.
i wonder if it goes both ways... you know, haters just hating. Kinda makes sense she's just reacting mean to people looking for an excuse to bring her down a notch over cookies.
Why shouldn't she talk back at haters though? She never talks bad about people for no reason or discriminates against certain groups, unlike other famous streamers, and still, she gets the most hate for saying something.
While I think the whole thing is a bit blown out of proportion there has been some talks about the cookies and how she proclaimed they were a 2 year project that they've put their hearts and soul into developing only to it then come out that the cookies are pretty much a repackage of cookies that were previously sold (yes I know they added mushroom powder to get + vitamin D). She also in the stream called people idiots who couldn't do math since she's selling 4 bags at 28$ but since their 4 bags their only 7$ per bag not 28$. So clearly her cookies are "cheaper". However the previous price of the cookies were 10$ and the bag sold was about 4 times as big since previous bag was around 397g/14oz for 10$ while the new bags are 114g/4oz each for 7$. So you used to pay 10$ for 397g (14 oz) but now you gotta pay 28$ for 456g / 16oz. But of course she only mentions the price per "bag" but that she's taking 1.75$ per oz instead of the previous 0.715ish $ per oz doesn't matter . She then also called the "one" viewer broke if he couldn't afford it. While I won't call the cookies a scam like a lot of people seem to do it's clearly false marketing when the cookies were launched and it's clear they've done a price mark up on them since the price is way higher.
you know that those 4 "packs" are 4oz right? and it doesn't really matter what kinda packs these are because you can't buy those smaller 4 oz packs separate! The starting pack is 28$ there is no cheaper version!!!
Maybe calling it a scam would be legally irresponsible but it is a clear and honestly offensive cash-grab with a 2.45x markup for very slight changes in ingredient sourcing and added vitamin d. She also claims that the cookies are somehow "healthy" when the nutrition facts are 1 to 1 the same as the "midnight cookies" which were not considered a health option at all or marketed as such. All this is compounded by the fact that she frequently criticizes other streamers for cash-grabs and has made it a key part of her outward moral philosophy that she doesn't wish to profit off her viewers as she states that she is already a millionaire and doesn't need more money. I'd say the outrage is blown out of proportion but not necessarily undeserved.
My issue is if you're going to say "it's $7 a bag" to people complaining at the $28 price tag but you can't buy just one bag and insult thier intolerance when they are in fact correct that it's $28 for cookies you come off so out of touch with reality that perhaps Pokie needs to just try to ground herself again.
Not to mention comparing the two cookies by "bag" was very deceptive. Her single bag of cookies is $7 for 4 oz., while the other brand's was $10 for 14 oz.
@@jc3drums916 Yeah and she gives that attitude like if that was a gotcha moment, where 4 oz is a ridiculously small bag. This kind of comment is such a PR nightmare, because at every level it really is indefensible.
Yall have to be unserious, selling a single 7$ unit online is obviously not a reliable business model and not a good offer for the customer ( who would pay that much shipping for a single unit ???????), it only makes sense of her to offer a multiple pack bundle in a single box, if her product is gonna be distributed in stores, buying a single unit is probably gonna be possible
You've missed the point they're making entirely though. They're saying that trying to claim it's actually 4x $7 bags of cookies is still straight up lying because they aren't physically purchasable for that price anywhere. The product is $28 full stop. There's no $7 anywhere to be found. It doesn't exist.@@pipo398
@@jc3drums916he literally says in the video how the brands are different. And poki also addressed that you just choose not to listen. On top of that if you’re complaining about the price you were never going to buy it in the first place. Most new online food brands only let you buy in bulk. That’s just how that works. You can’t buy $100 worth of cookies and complain that they’re expensive. You get what you paid for
The thing is is that it IS a general statement to everybody. Sure it was in response to that one person, but it applies to anyone who thought the cookies were expensive, to anyone who thinks 7$ for a bag of cookies is a lot.
but like is what she said really that bad? this is so blown out of proportion and if people dont want to spend that much then dont, you can and probably do ignore that this product even exists. People are only angry here cause they want to be angry
@IamAlmostRealWitch True, but the girl scouts don't go around calling people broke boys and dumbasses. Though, it def was blown out of proportion, and she did say something she didn't mean (It happens, we are all human).
WOW! someone over the internet called an obvious, rude chatter in the chat "broke", where 99% of her normal fans in chat could care less. lets cancel her!
12:50 This is a really good point. Honestly I’ve known people who started out with a nice small audience and then over time as they got bigger they worried more and more about doing something that might be considered “controversial”
@Ludwig, You can't use google trends as an example. You purposely used "Ludwig Ahgren" instead of just "Ludwig". So I did the google trend " Pokimane vs. Ludwig" and guess who won? You did. In the past 12 months you were bigger than her on most searched. I know you are not that stupid to use "Ludwig Ahgren" instead of "Ludwig". The general people know you as "Ludwig" not "Ludwig Ahgren". You can make your case since you named yourself after a character but I still rest my case that people refer you as just "Ludwig".
It's really nice to see such a thoughtful and nuanced take in these situations. I like the point you made about the neutral people who appear when people are famous, im certainly one of those people when it comes to Poki and its true that we're easily swayed. That's an important factor in situations like these that I think a lot of people might miss. Also the getting angry on someone else's behalf when that group hasnt even been complaining, I hope that aspect of the internet becomes self-aware soon. Mob mentality is so scary
Im also a neutral guy, i watch a little poki stuff but just casually. That said, The broke boy clip DID upset me, not on behalf of viewers, but directly. Having a millionaire say your a broke boy because you cant shell out that much for snacks isnt just relevant to her viewers. It can be insulting to anyone who hears it. I dont care where she got her money, its a damn bad look. And to people who will say "oh, it was on her stream and your not a stream viewer so you dont understand, it wasnt meant for you", for someone who regularly pulls audiences of that size they are absolutely aware their opinion goes beyond their chat and have to act appropriately. All kinds of podcasts and news shows get shit for saying something stupid that goes viral too. Poki is an excellent and experienced broadcaster, she knows better.
@@idkwhattoputheretbhbuthereit's especially hypocritical when the incel community is what she took advantage of to make her millions. When it's working in her favor, she's fine with it. The second it starts working against her, it's misogyny and underserved. Pick a lane, I'm so done with this convenient, white woman feminism.
@@Bullseye-YT not gonna lie though, as a broke boy, im not offended. cant get offended at a fact lol. i dont watch poki much, and she shouldnt have said that, BUT i do think the whole thing is blown way out of proportion as it usually is whenever poki comes across my screen.
I like to watch your videos normally. But from a completely objective sense, you have to acknowledge that you are close to her and that impacts your commentary on this situation.
@@harumtaha3102 Yeah I get what you are saying. Although, I HIGHLY DOUBT he is neglecting that view on purpose. And, to be honest, I think he did an amazing job going over the nuances of the situation. I can definitely still tell bias is coming through his position as a streamer.
@@micahcreator7014 I agree. Ludwig made good points, yet, there are legitimate points to the flak that pokimane is receiving, and I wish that was acknowledged - points beyond the “ok she shouldn’t have said that, it was a mistake”. It’s one thing to have these counterpoints, but it’s another thing for Pokimane to defend herself while also admitting fault, taking accountability and learning from this experience. I think to me and many others, it just speaks about her character. But tbh, this really isn’t that deep
Heres the best way to sum up the actual situation. Poki basically is reselling cookies that already existed but making them way more expensive (Scammer) she got called out shes not happy and still tip toes around her saying rude things (Does the its just a prank bro thing and says its expensive for SOME not admitting she purposely over priced them to scam)
It's so nice to see this opinion here. It's what I felt from the beginning. She was so stupid to call the chatter broke. But this whole event is a non-issue.
@@ItsJustValHere how is it controversial exactly? theres not much controversy about the issue. even people defending pokimane start their comments with "she was so stupid to call the the chatter broke" as seen here.... So what is the controversy exactly? Are you saying this just because people are making content at it and you wish it was other content? I could definitely agree with that lol.. but this is just reaping what you sow. She is known to be pretty two-faced/rude/'fake' and people love to tear into those people when they drop the "mask" .. i mean that goes all the way down to your friend groups. Now imagine youre a multi millionaire public figure. This happens to all of them, but in particular when youre just easily unlikable or have a history with these sorts of "dropping the mask". Like Asmongold says, "Never break character."
@@hunterjobrien how i see it, the controversy is you shouldnt really insult/talk down to your fans about their finicial situation when selling them merch. This situaiton is the exact same as the other twitch streamer who mocked her fans over a $5 twich sub. its not about the cookies, theyre just like every other product that alot of streamers/youtubers push, overpriced merch.
@@hunterjobrien i mean i agree with your comments about her being two-faced, but to answer your question - it is a controversy because the people against her are making some of these arguments, among others. I don't agree with Ludwig that it's all for clicks - in my opinion, some of the people against her have a hate b0n3r for her content and feel that she's "always getting what she wants" / gets preferential treatment. It's people who are transferring their feeling (of hate towards internet platforms/bias), towards her.
@@SwitchMaxFX That isn't controversial though.. I'm still trying to find out what the controversy is behind the criticism of her character. The main "argument" I'm seeing is just twisting and downplaying the verbiage around what she did, like Ludwig did in this video. Ludwig used a google trend comparison of him vs Poki, and the fact that he has white listed a bidet as his defense... that should tell you all you need to know about how "controversial" this topic is.
A scam? Who the hell was tricked into buying Poki’s cookies? Last I checked, a scam was promising something they never intend to deliver on. Poki’s cookies do deliver on what they advertise. Anyone who looks at the price and package know what they are getting into. The real question is: Are Poki’s cookies overpriced for their real value compared to other products? Yes.
@@fishnewt1331 It is per definition a scam since she is deceiving her audience by promoting the cookies as original when they are a literal rip-off. Regardless if you call it a scam or not its a shitty thing to do, especially because shes been high-roading and criticising other people for the same things she did just now
The biggest problem is she said something that alienated everyone who is financially struggling, viewer or not. To me, that is the biggest reason it garnered such widespread attention. Its not just a streamer saying something stupid. It's a multi-millionare calling her largely middle class, or lower, audience "broke". Look up the recent reaction to the NY Giant lineman saying anyone talking badly about him is basically flipping burgers. Statements like this talk down to that vast majority of the public. If it hits major media, it just comes across like your condescending to people who don't know you and those people are not going to give the benefit of the doubt
Ludwig really puts his journalism degree to work on this channel, I really appreciate the level headedness of this take. I knew it was the only video I could watch on this drama, given how vicious the comments have been in pretty much every other space.
@@M3lly22 I mean, are they? I don't think that changes the validity of what he said. Plus, I try not to project any kind of relationship onto two people I do not know.
@@zebrathinker validity of what? she google trends higher = hear more hate because more people bigger sample size? Or that its white labeled and "people do this" ? Ludwig didnt really say anything in this video.
@@zebrathinker Valid things to consider for what? I'm asking you, and yes its very apparent you dont understand. The main point people seem to be making is a criticism of her character, which she seems to get a lot of. She's fake/two-faced/disingenous. So how exactly do Ludwigs points counter that? They dont. He's misdirecting to an offshoot issue people have with the marketing of a product. Even Ludwig didn't try to argue against the criticism of her character. But, maybe worse, he downplayed it and twisted the verbiage around it. Not very "journalism major" but also verrrrry journalism major lol.
Since you compared her to yourself Lud, I think another distinction between how people view you vs her besides "they're sexist," (which I think is less of the issue) or "she's more famous," (a little more convincing) is that people have already disliked her for awhile before from other drama moments in her past, whereas you have rarely had such things happen if at all. This is partly due to how she can come across, whether truthfully or untruthfully, that she can seem more aloof and less humble to those that don't know her, whereas you seem to be more open/honest and self-depricating in manner.
That’s a super interesting take. Depending on the content, I’ve definitely always found poki to seem a bit more honest of a content creator. However that may be because I’m coming from a female perspective. Not in a ‘ahhh sexism way’, just that I know I have few to no male content creators who are being truly vulnerable in a way that resonates with me, albeit society makes it much harder for men to open up like that in general. I love lud, definitely watch him more than any other creator, but for the humble, honest, open feeling I tend to go to QT, Sydeon, poki, etc. I’m super excited that poki mentioned starting a podcast with QT as the first guest, I hope it turns out well!
I'm pretty sure most of the people still holding water for past "drama" aren't being genuine in their criticism about the cookies. Similar to what ludwig said, most of the people who're drama baiting and farming already didn't like her, so the cookies were just an excuse to pile on her.
I think the bigger issue is calling someone broke if they criticize you charging 7$per pack (fing insane price tbh) especially if it's only a rebrand. Just be open about it instead of hiding behind insults
@@wutthe8284if you think that the price point argument if being held in bad faith, then idk what to tell you. she says its a joke about calling the chatter broke, but at the same time called others incels, and again, despite saying that price will be considered in her next batch its hard to believe it . yes people will dogpile on creators they dont like, but if you refuse to stay on the topic and brush off all criticism with “misogyncels”, then that just makes you look bad. also, “incel rhetoric” is shaming for the lack of sex. i thought this was a bad thing.
@@lvl5charmanderIncel as an insult isn't shaming for lack of sex. It's a term used to insult those who become woman haters due to lack of sex with women in their life. Ppl shame them for how pathetic and stupid they act regarding any issue revolving around the female gender. No ones shaming them for their sex life.
oh god, a sensible viewpoint that doesn't try to hate farm the situation. Even basically says "stop complaining, and let time do it's thing". Reddit surely won't appreciate this video
As an extra note, I think twitter also exacerbates this problem. For example, I follow some Twitch streamers on Twitter, so alot of the time, Twitter's algorithm will show me controversies of Twitch streamer I have no vested interest in (as Ludwig put it, I'm "neutral" on them), and really try to get me to engage with tweets involving them, to the point that i will just mute key words just so I don't see the topic anymore. For example, the past two weeks, Twitter has really tried to get me to care about this pokimane drama or the dream drama, even though i dont follow those people or engage with their content in any capacity. I'm just trying to see what Sykkuno and CDawgVA are up to man, why you gotta show everyone and their mother's opinion about some overpriced cookies?
Actually every single video on this channel is fucking goated like no matter what the topic is Lud is just such a fire journalist and I think its dope that he incorporates his passion for it in a channel that lets it shine all by itself too it deserves it massive W imo
I've seen so many rude comments about this situation and I refused to make any comments about it until I got a better understanding of things and this video really helped.I just wish those commenters saw this before saying what they were saying.
I don't see an issue with her selling her product for $28, if people want to buy it they will. I agree with Charlie and Asmons take on it regarding her outburst on stream. Ultimately I don't think it's a big deal, it's just cookies. Just don't buy them.
@@migo70 The issue is the lack of transparency. I don't care who you are if you're just rebranding a product and selling it at a markup without letting people know it's a whitelabel fuck you.
@@migo70 It's because Pokimane is the main actor in this. She is known to be a narcisisstic sociopath at every corner and whenever she gets some calling out by the audience, she always slips her mask off. In any other case, it wouldn't be a big deal, but she keeps bragging about how not interested in financial gain she is and how good of a person she is because she doesn't want money like all these other streamers. Then she goes on and does bs like this which is clearly a rip-off. When people call her our on it, she starts going on the offensive to call her fans names/slurs to invalidate their criticism, which results in people calling her out even more until she apologizes with her soft, innocent fake voice. Every controversy the dumbass has been following the same trend and she never learns her lessom.
@@migo70 It's fine for her to do. But it contradicts her whole speech about being rich enough and not needing to milk her audience (the one she gave when she capped donations at 5 dollars). Also her constant criticism of other streamers for doing "cringe" things to make money.
that clip of poki is awfully reminiscent to the super famous clip of that one girl complaining that her viewers can't spend $5 on her (to sub on twitch)
that is exactly not what you want "a closer status to the person being attacked" a more unbiased person would have had a better take oh what am i talking about moist already has one
As a person who is largely removed from all of these fluff being an observer for years. I think at this point it’s the fact of the internet that if pokimane does something mildly reprehensible, it’s a free dunk. This have been happening over and over again.
I think at first people 10:19 were angry because she was being disingenuous saying it was a unique product shes been working on for 2 years. If she was honest like lud thered be no controversy
How is that a lie? Do you know how long it takes to rebrand something? Legally, liability, market research… 2 years seems about right. She didn’t say she took two years making just cookies. The whole process took 2 years.
I do respect we have a big steamer that knows that providing a second opinion on a topic and not going with the mob is important, got the balls knowing to provide your thoughts rather than be a sellout for easy fame. Also I do not like her for other reasons, but the fact people complain about her cookies and not about all the other youtubers doing similar things is crazy. Thanks for being one of the few to push for individual thought and not going with the crowd! Love u lud
Eh not really. No one gives a shit that it was white labeled, which he makes it look like. The issue is that just because it’s supposedly “better” ingredients and the added vitamin D, doesn’t make it very fair to be marked up by three times the price of the cheaper ones. Especially when you’re getting less cookies per bag than the ones that are literally cheaper. As for the clip of her calling someone a broke boy, I don’t think anyone really thought people cared, it was more that it’s just a horrible way to respond to criticism and also just sounded really condescending.
what other streamers are reselling the exact product basically for a 300% markup and then calling their righoutlesly angry and upset audience idiots and broke bitches?
@@Irrelevant210Across different suppliers, ingredients can be pretty varied in price, a 1.5x increase is not improbable and vitamin d is not a drop in the bucket ingredient either. But by my reasonable guess, it's still not close and the rest is just creator hype, which imo is fine. If people want to buy kinda expensive chocolate cause mrbeast is on it, they can buy kinda expensive cookies as well, this is how creator products seem to work and you can question that but it's not an inexplicable price.
I've literally seen Pokimane hate since like the first day I've been on the internet. There were like 50 hate campaigns against her during the leafy stuff. That same hate has just carried over through the years cause people already built their biases based on that era of the internet.
Maybe but she launches herself into drama for example when xqc went to kick and says he’s pretty much a sell out then tries to play the victim. Then when she is trying to make as much bank as possible just like X and gets called out she lashes out and now she’s going to go on the defensive again. Just saying I think she is completely detached from reality and in general just a shitty person.
Agreed. There are several famous people where even though they have a lot of haters, they're not _this_ noticable since they have way more fans who love them. Probably has to do with the celeb not insulting their viewers, specifically copyrighting negative videos of them, etc lol
I enjoy your videos because you cover both sides, you do research and your reasoning I can understand even if I don’t agree. I agree with majority of your videos so keep up the good work! 👍🏾.
The issue is you don't launch a product and then shit talk people for not being able to afford it. Should have just ignored the idiot in chat or timed him out.
you have to give it to Ludwig, man straight up tells you anytime he does anything or sells something, Hey its my brand name / white label that I bought but helped designed and thats why i either sell it a certain price or so on. Poki should have Hired you for the Advertising / Marketing especially since he is able to explain it rationally.
If you’re willing to defend Poki, you should also criticise and be honest about the pricing points. That way it would seem more genuine and wouldn’t seem that you’re just defending your friend.
I feel like using ur bidet argument is kinda a bad argument, no? You buy a bidet, and can use it for awhile and eventually have to replace it later later on down the line, getting your money's worth. Whereas you buy the 4 pack of cookies for $28, like them, keep buying them, and it adds up. It's not jus a one-n-done deal, after you already ate the 1st pack, you're already paying more than what you'd be paying for ur bidet, doesnt make much sense to me.
@@RyBrown the joke was that it was a clap back at an harasser (her usual dexerto type of haters), i would've said meaner things If i was harassed the same way.
@@BrokenTubecastDamage control or not but i think the first thought Ludwig had after this drama was "i can get a 10 min long video about this" and that's what he did. I think people defending her are also milking her and people attacking her are also milking her lol.
To add on to your theory about Poki’s hate being correlated to her fame, it is that and, the fact that she is very open in the opinions she believes in. So those who disagree with her beliefs (+ haters) try to find anything she says before that contradicts the actions she does now as a “gotcha” moment; despite the fact that beliefs are complex as the holder of said beliefs so it isn’t as black and white as the haters make it out to be. Adding on that she is a women will make those haters tunnel vision even more.
She’s famous with past controversies so lots of haters got their impressions off of that. They are the same haters that find celebrity tweets from a decade ago and try to cancel them. Haters just hold on to whatever they can. Poki’s haters still bring up the fact that she said the n word, even though it was during a different time and she has learned and grew from that
She is honestly extremely condescending and passive aggressive, acts like she's above it all but she really isn't. Like that fake giggle she does when she gets mad and is trying to act like she isn't really rubs me the wrong way. Frankly, I don't think it has anything to do with her being a woman. Rae also got into hot water with reflct. And she got like mad mad, at her own friends/other streamers, and viewers. But I still think the way she was pissed off didn't feel half as gross as whenever poki says something super condescending to someone. Get mad, get upset, get pissed, but the way she treats people like they're literal filth and she's above them all always bothers me.
@@slashbat2375 Unless you personally know her so you can actually back your opinion that "she treats people like they're literal filth and she's above them" you need to seriously touch grass ag go offline
@@Tom-yj3dw Do I need to personally know every president to vote for them or judge them, or state a fact like @slashbat2375 did????? Even then. How long? How long since the last interaction? Do you have a thought about anyone, anything outside you being there or knowing them intimately??? Dude you need grass...
I don't hate her. Nor watch her. Basically neutral. But I'm curious how this fight here is gonna go. Also even if you're a popular streamer, you're gonna get hurt by the haters. That's it, human nature. They're not perfect. Everyone be nice to them.
In my opinion, in order for someone to ACTUALLY be "cancelled" or for them to die off, is to do something so bad that the people who like them, that first group of people, to no longer like them. This doesnt even come close. This is barely a controversy if you look at what she said as a reply to a rude commenter, instead of a general statement. Most of the time, when we say rude things to someone for a certain reason, that comment does not apply to all people who did that thing.
If you think the chatter was rude I would like to show you tyler1, dantes, asmongold, and amouranth's chatrooms. Seemed like basic chatter streamer banter to me, not sure why it got to her like it did.
@@SunBane67 I mean, it was probably rude and annoying considering it was 4 days after the launch. 4 days of seeing the same negative comment is gonna take a toll on you.
I doubt you will read this Ludwig but on the off chance you do, know I write this because I think you're a smart guy who makes a genuine effort to empathize and see the other side, and I would love to offer the perspective of an average person looking in on this. I understand your attempt to break this down and I don't think you're wrong for trying to rationalize this, especially with a friend, but I'm gonna keep it real as someone who really doesn't care about Pokimane, I have no beef with her, and I enjoy her content at times when I come upon it. Why I, a regular onlooker care about this? Not a lot mind you, I have a life, but when I see things like this, I do care and get a little annoyed by it. It's because normal people like us are struggling right now. A lot. For the little guys like us, we're struggling to get by, creature comforts are harder to come by. Expensive luxury products like this feel out of touch to begin with and while it is petty to be a bit bothered seeing an expensive youtuber product I could just not buy. I do think there is some validity to my feeling in being happier seeing products like say Feastables or Prime, something I feasibly can get to treat myself, versus yet another luxury designer product I can't really hope to enjoy. But, that doesn't make me hate Pokimane, obviously not, that would be insane, that's just a thing I go "oh this kind of sucks I guess" But what really feels out of touch with me, is millionaires talking down to us. Even you, in this, as someone I've been a fan of since Pogostuck. It feels a bit insulting to have people like you act like white labeling needs to be spoon fed, your product clearly isn't pricy for what it is (and bidets fuck, keep up the good fight), the same cannot be said for hers. No doubt it's a far higher quality product then a big pack of chips ahoy, but you also have to acknowledge that someone with a cookie budget is getting insanely less bang for their buck. People having more scrutiny for a luxury product is natural. Do I think her comment was "mask off" or whatever? Certainly not, but I do think it was tone deaf. I think those who aren't suffering right now don't understand the depths of why people are frustrated. I think it goes far beyond "Powerful woman makes me mad" or "People jump on hate trains of famous people". I think you get anomalously less hate for your fame because you make such a genuine effort to keep it real, and, while I think nobody deserves unearned hate, nor is hate itself really healthy, consider that not everyone who speaks up is just a hater. Some of us are just upset at seeing a world we struggle to keep afloat in with privileged people in boats who don't realize anymore how hard swimming is.
Then stop watching her. No one cares because STREAMERS ARE NOT YOUR FRIEND, THEY DONT CARE THAT MUCH IF YOU WATCH OR NOT, THEY DONT HAVE SOME MORAL AUTHORITY. THEY ARE DUMBASSES WITH A STREAM WHO MADE IT OR DIDNT. If it offended you this badly, then boycott her. No one will care either way.
so as someone whos struggling, do you foam at the mouth seeing expensive cars rolling down the streets?? if a product is too expensive for you, then you are not the target demographic. Yes people are struggling, so am I, but bro expensive shit is always going to exist. That whole point is stupid as hell
@@oliviermarcoux9675 i mean i agree w you but even someone wealthy wouldn't pay 7 dollars for a 4 ounce bag of cookies let alone 28 dollars for a whole pack. These are cookies not luxury cars
@@oliviermarcoux9675 plus the problem is how these cookies are triple the price of the original ones whilst having the SAME ingredients. The price would make sense if the cookies contained different ingredients or at least an amount but there's no difference between Pokis cookies and the original ones. That's why people are mad
9:30 I think this whole situation is ridiculous, but the 2nd shitstorm started because Poki responded to someone IN HER CHAT. Is that guy not a viewer by definition? This situation is identical to what happened to Valkyrae and her blue light cream. Her chat questioned whether blue light cream actually does anything, Rae was dismissive about it, Twitter got wind of it, which made LSF get wind of it and then the rest is history. Starforge PCs also had the identical drama with overpriced computers and they actually addressed the concerns properly. They edited the website listing the parts, lowered the price and now they do custom case and lightbox promotions to justify the influencer upcharge. When you emphasize how much work you put in to make the product (when in reality you're just taking a pre-existing product to market), and not do the things Starforge or Swipe did, it leaves a sour* taste in everyone's mouth.
This, Poki chose to be snarky instead of respectful and now people have room to attack her character. Its also just not a good look for her character when someone asks her about her product and she chooses to be condescending instead of understanding.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 87 วันนี้!! คู่เอก "ก้องชัย vs โชคปรีชา"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YN6e7HVnekw/mqdefault.jpg)
GET A BIDET WHILE YOU’RE DOWN HERE SCROLLING 🥴
bidet.gg
Clean holes all around!
arent you pokemane's friend
can you make your Bidets cheaper
can you give me some free cookies im broke
AYO bidet supremacy
Threatening to kill your grandpa over pokimane’s cookies is a bold move, Ludwig
Couldnt agree more
Would agree if this is Ludwig but this is actually Mogul mail
But did he do it 😮
Who the fuck is Ludwig?
Did we watch the same thing?
Mogul mail never fails to look like somebody drew on his face while he was sleeping during a party, I just wish Ludwig would've come to his rescue.
HOW DID THIS SLEEP DEPRIVED MEME GET SO FAR?
@@superplushyvids it didn’t start with sleep deprived, they just made it a thing
Look at your pfp 😂
@Dafuqbooombackupwhat was the point of that lol?
Cause he stoned
My favourite part of Mogul Mail is how open Lud is about his hypocrisy. “All these influencers…” “I mean I’m doing it right now!” 😂
he’s so self conscious i’m not even mad about these things
@@wannabewumpus As long as you know that's a cop out. And you're weak for letting someone's self awareness sweep any badness of their actions under the rug.
No i am good
I will not buy 28$ cookie because you call me poor
@@ukleth ok👍
Hypocrisy is the wrong word, it would only be hypocritical if he was saying how bad it was to do, or that people shouldn't do it. Hypocrisy has too many negative connotations that come with it
Bless this man for doing gods work in helping every asshole be clean.
Saw this comment at the start of the vid, thought he was backing pokimane for being an “asshole”, just got to the part where he said it. Now I understand 😂
Mans knows that if he defend asshole behavior because it’s a big creator it’s gonna benefit him financially and also there all friends. I doubt he’d ever criticize Hasan for his actions or anything related to the negative behaviors he associates with, basically all he’s said is: pokimane isn’t actually in trouble she’s just getting hate because people are sexist. Not like being an asshole drives attention when your whole brand is being nice.
@@TheMainChannelViewer Not at all what I was talking about but if you insist that's what this is about. 😆
@@TheMainChannelViewer 4:54 That’s not what he’s talking about😂 he’s talking about this part
Pokimane is 🗑️ yo!
I am a neutral Mogul Mail viewer. I am ready to lunge at Ludwig when he messes up.
this is such a funny comment 🤣
All us neutral Mogul Mail viewers should band together and start a -cult- comunity!
this comment made my day.
This needs to be the top comment 😅
Ngl same. But dude is the same guy on and offline
my public speaking professor would give mogul mail guy a 10/10 for eye contact, very passionate and very engaged on chosen topic
I’m I got a 98 in that class shit was lit
@@MogulMail bro said I'm I
@@MogulMailyour written tests were marked lower i’m guessing?
@@JeremiahIypeEnglish major moment
English major said I’m
as much as it gets clowned on, I think his journalism degree really shows in these videos
No you’re correct AND I’ve learned more about how to put these together because of his vids
Ehhhh it feels like Ludwig really glazed over some facts about the cost of these cookies and a lot of this video in particular is just his personal opinion. He was more onto the journalism side of things with the Mr Beast video.
@@solizemusicI think that's intentional, I think the point he's making is that the cost doesn't really matter
i think that’s what sets him apart from “drama journalists” like nickisnotgreen. ludwig tries to keep his personal beef out of his coverage, openly admits when he’s wrong, and acknowledges the size and scope of the issues he covers. if he was my professor i wouldn’t have dropped out of the journalism major haha
@@87bees68i agree that he is different from a lot of drama journalists in the way that he doesn’t over exaggerate things and instead takes a more level headed approach but i think that his personal bias does impact his videos and i think it shows in the ways that he talks about certain people and events it’s sometimes subtle but you or at least i can tell when he’s trying not to be super judgmental/treading lightly on a topic versus when he’s just airing things out on things/people he doesn’t personally like.
"I'm just trying to have every asshole in America be clean" - Ludwig 2023
Who is Ludwig
why is the quality so good
Thats what im saying lol
ok bot
Real, dude starts off with “best I can do” then has god tier camera quality
iPhone
?
Very impressed that you managed to shoehorn in a video of you being non-stop complimented for 30 seconds and pull it off, great job dad
Lmaoo
Tbh though if I got complimented by destiny I would not share that knowledge with anyone, I'd die with that secret.
A+ glazing, taking notes
@@demetriam2408 what’s wrong with destiny
@@charliebohanna4485 racism, transphobia, homophobia, support of other people who are the same, general asshole who treats other people like shit... I mean even fucking Vaush dropped the dude.
kinda weird how you called everyone broke and just laughed in the camera for 15 minutes Mr. Mogul Mail
For anyone wondering: I am pretty sure what he says at the end is "Va te faire (um) cuire un oeuf" which translates to "Go cook yourself an egg" which also carries the meaning "mind your business" or "get stuffed"
that french was so bad i couldn’t even understand ☠️
thanks I thought he was trying to say "va te faire enculer a neuf" lmao
Maybe he was trying to play on words with 'va te faire enculer?'
Which is 'go f yourself'
I just wish Ludwig be as big for us as this drama.
He's so big for us
Stroke comment
@@007i1 Bigger than my uncle
that Adin make-up drama helped him
I read this in Aiden’s voice
The drama doesn’t really matter. People who like her continue to like her and people who don’t like her still don’t like her. Very rarely do people change their minds
That's always how it goes.
exactly. the only times this changes is stuff like w sssniperwolf
@@onemillionpercent Even then, she's still making content and money. Not too much of a change until youtube decides to get some morals which won't be anytime soon if their adblocker policy is anything to go off of.
ive went from briefly knowing her through x to disliking her
@@mauritzettlin5048that's all it took ?😂
I only just saw that you had a fact-check sheet in your description. Man, I wish every TH-camr cared enough to do something like that, but at least it makes your channel stand out from the rest, not to mention that you clearly already spend more effort on these topics than most people to begin with.
there’s no point in that if they all go unaddressed
4:50 highlight of the video. Lud’s a man on a mission. One that we should all appreciate.
Gotta respect the honest hustle.
I genuinely hope you continue to do these tempered takes on stupid internet drama. It's a breath of fresh air.
I know, he’s not just reporting on the drama, but instead is making reasonable inferences
ngl i missed something stupid like this instead of actual crimes labeled as "drama"
Of course he'll have a tempered take he is friends with Poki and Hasan
Especially after even Charlie fed the fire it was nice to see him be reasonable.
charlie is such a L@@Lucarioguild7
i hate to admit this, but ludwig might be a good "journalist"
Except this is journalist mogul mail this Ludwig??? cant be given credit😂
How tf is Ludwig? We watch mogul mail here bucko
Who*
Yeah, but he doesn't need to be downplaying her shit this much tho'
not the video to say this on, but usually he does well. this was an L because they are friends. and thats ok.
I hope mogul mail keeps using his journalistic integrity, I find it great! Rational discussions are so based
Facts
the fact that you have to say rational discussions are so based made me shed a tear
Bunger
That's really my only issue here. Are the cookies expensive? Yes, so are all influencer products. Are they just the same cookies that were öulled before? Maybe, i dont care about that.
But. When a influencer, who very often portrays herself as the correct moral position. Positions herself as making the correct choices. Say shit like that, its really gross. Its not what she said. Its who said it, in my opinion
Yeah that makes sense. That's very accurate. Like if XQC or Lowtiergod tells someone in chat to off themselves, I expect that. That is on brand. But if someone like lilypichu said that? Oh hell no, that would be chaos. And poki made her brand and image to be respectful and PC etc. That's fine, but that also means if she ever says unhinged crap, internet will flip, and that is totally fair. It is what it is
She just sounds like the average delusional billionaire, like the kind of person that thinks bananas cost 10$. Apparently you dont even gotta be a billionaire to be that deluded by your money
the cookies were expensive beyond belief though, even for an influencer product. she also lied multiple times in her marketing and follow ups for literally no reason when her fans will eat up whatever product she puts out anyway. not very indicative of someone in good faith on top of her comments
WOW! someone called an obvious rude chatter broke over the internet? color me surprised and slap me silly!
I like how level headed your takes always are. Every time I see people talk about this the only thing in my head is "ok but who seriously gives a shit?"
misogyny is a strong drug
She's living rent free in these people's minds. Never liked her, never watched her, but who gives a shit if she sells overpriced cookies. Objectively speaking that's not a scam. A scam is what logan paul did with cryptozoo. What she does is what mr beast did with feastibles and beast burger, slapping their brand on something you can get for much cheaper elsewhere to get a markup.
@@rinnepyit’s not even misogyny, it’s just what happens when you have a lot of peoples attention and a lot of them are haters. Personally, I think the criticism is valid, but yeah obviously it’s more extreme since so many people hate her. I don’t like her very much either to be honest, but I’m not to the same point as people who spend all their time hating on her.
Doesn't matter the sex, guys or gals can be equally narcissistic and think people are peasants making them profits.
I think more people have an issue with those defending her than her actual actions. If people just said, yeah that’s a bad thing, you shouldn’t do that, the whole drama would’ve gone away by now but you have so many weirdos calling people misogynists for daring to criticise a woman or just defending her to be contrarian
What’s wild is the fact she claims the Vitamin D in there is worth mentioning, it’s one of the most minuscule amounts possible 🤣
Isn't it something akin to 1% or less of a recommended daily dose? 🤣🤣 which apparently took her "TWO YEARS BRO" to create. People buying what she's selling just scares me. I would never buy anything from a streamer (ironically the closest I have come is Ludwig's bidet systems which we needed new ones for our 3 hotels) yet I actually enjoy watching Poki stream Valorant. Just have her on mute and it is good times tbh.
To be honest that is the only problem I had with the whole thing in the first place - they are misleadingly marketed in basically every way. She made it sound like she personally was heavily involved in creating these cookies and worked hard for 2 years to bring her dream to life when in reality we know she's likely just involved on the marketing end for the most part, and I feel like her misleading her audience into thinking this was essentially her creation so they would buy the product is a bit scummy and I really struggle to believe she did much more than taste a few sample cookies and pick her favourite. I think it WAS her idea to put the vitamin D in it because it helped her market it as a 'healthy' snack for gamers who don't get enough sunlight, and the company just added in the smallest amount they could while still being able to say it has vitamin D, because it'd be dangerous to have a snack that has enough vitamin D that someone could reach their daily recommended dosage or some significant percentage of it from the recommended serving size of cookies because there are plenty of people who eat snacks in excess, and if they say ate a few bags of them over a couple of days they could get sick from an overdose of vitamin D. She likely didn't know or care to know if the amount of vitamin D was significant or not, she just cared that it existed for marketing purposes. Same with the gluten free and all natural ingredients thing - it allows her to market them as healthy because some people associate those things with being healthy not understanding that gluten free products only really help the health of people with celiac disease, and all natural means absolutely nothing when it comes to health because a vial of cyanide is also 100% natural. If she had just said "I am releasing my own brand of cookies so my audience is able to support me financially and get some delicious cookies in return" I couldn't have cared less. But the whole fake healthy products thing really pisses me off, because I know so many people who fall for it.
I know that it's hard to be your best self when you have to put yourself out there on the internet every day in order to make your income, but the clip of her going "I know math is hard when you're an idiot" in a patronizing voice makes me cringe so hard I shrivel up into a corn cob. If I had to watch a clip of myself acting like that I'd delete my account. I'd be so embarrassed.
Ur justified feeling that
@@MogulMailludwin
Yeah, she gives off a mean girls vibe, and when drama happens with her it brings out the vibe more.
Cringe all you want but that doesn't justify the hate campaign (that started before she posted cringe on main).
Stop fantasizing, people say stupid things every day.
prediction be4 watching:
Ludwig will defend Poki bcus theyre friends
I was indeed correct, ggez
On point actually
what did he say that was wrong
Happy Birthday to your Grandfather, Ludwig. I hope he has been able to pass on a lifetime of love & knowledge to you and your sister. That's it. Because the truth is I never cared about the cookies because it's clear she needed a better writer and you are right... Admittedly I am one of those in the middle and was offended on behalf of her community but if they stand for it why the fuck should I care? It's easy to carry a torch and pitchfork it's hard to remember what for. Eventually they just get too heavy. Anyways, Enjoy your vacation.
he’s not ludwig. he’s mogul mail. wrong person buddy
I am appalled by the fight to keep those assholes clean. Keep on the good fight.
Uh... do you know what "appalled" means?
@@00angel4200do you know how to use it in a sentence? they are cleary horrified at why people try so hard to keep assholes clean. and wants the fight to continue fighting the assholes.
I’m doing my part 🫡
@@TiL_Deimosdo you know how to spell “clearly?”
@@TiL_Deimos - They who? Ludwig is a man, a male, a he, not they.
This drama just feels so dumb. What she said feels out of touch, but every single popular creator is out of touch no matter how well they hide it. And the price is too high imo but I just wont buy the product for that reason, and if enough people feel the same the price will go down. It seems like it was just the perfect combination of genuine criticism mixed with poki haters mixed with out of context clips that made this such a big deal
She made it worse by trying to "explain" it. When that didnt work she resorted to "jokes". All she had to do was not say anything and it would have gone straight to "oh, thats just content creator pricing for you" like ALL the other overpriced celebrity endorsed products.
She literally called her viewers “broke” and “idiots”
@@Barry_05 Let's be real she didn't call her viewers that she called the people who were trolling her that like Ludwig said.
How is the clip out of context, many payed before and after the clip. She just said something fucked and deserves the hate for said stupid clip
@@Barry_05I feel like Lud has called us the same things at least a few times. He literally says multiple times that he’s a millionaire. why is this any different?
Im one of the neutral viewers, and i had a thought in the back of my head that said. "Who tf cares", and you managed to make this more realistic and remove a lot of my delusions. Thank you for clarifying all of this drama, i really gotta be care about information on the internet.
she's hated for being a copyright abuser btw. not sexism
well he lied cuz the product isn"t similar it's the SAME ! smae company same formula same taste same look just with some vitamin D , and people are kinda pissed of because she kept lying like she developped and credating a company out of it ...
Love Lud, but this is a little biased/ lacks information
@@damine4740And the markup is outrageous while offer a little to no added value.
If she offer somewhat reasonable markup, people would less likely to make fun of it, but $7 for a 100gr of cookie? No hell way anyone outside of her audience will buy that.
Unbox therapy also get the same outrage over similar case of his markup relabel phone case, it's nothing about sexism.
Ludwig will defend pokimane anything because they are friends. What a cult group Lmao
always impressed by how well lud understands and can articulate what actually happens as a streamer, its like he's the behind the scenes streamer that lifts the curtain showing the feelings and thoughts behind being a streamer
english major
Charlie did the exact opposite, he's just pathetic now
@@wumbojetcallin someone pathetic for disliking someones cringe ass joke about her fans being broke is kinda pathetic tbh
@@ozyssah brother, charlie is just a drama TH-camr now, he never investigates, just goes along with what the consensus is on Reddit. He's like that for literally everything he talks about
@@wumbojet I'm sorry, I don't follow Charlie. But what kind of criticism is "he never investigates". Even Ludwig in this video is just giving his insight, not "investigating".
Happy bday to your grandpa!!! I hope he does make it to 100, but a happy, healthy 100.
Love how honest you are about “scams”. You’re not actually scamming anyone, but it’s funny when you call your own shit a scam 😂
Have fun in France! 🇫🇷 ❤
This is the sweetest comment ever, I hope you have a wonderful day, you wholesome human!
@@jellycatfish Thank you man. The internet needs way more positivity. It’s full of unnecessary negativity, so it doesn’t hurt to spread kind sentiments and be nice. Hope you have a great day too.
🫶🏻❤️
Ludwig, you said it perfectly. People most often latch on and become entitled to one viewpoint of a story because it’s what the general audience thinks or what you “have to believe”. We can only wish that more people suspend their disbelief and bias and do the best they can to rationalize and come up with their own opinions for both sides.
who is ludwig
yeah, this is pretty much group mentality and has been around for all of human history
Just because it’s a group mentality doesn’t mean it’s invalid criticism. Of course it’s more extreme than it needs to be since she has so much attention from haters, but a lot of the criticism is really valid. I think it’s good she apologized after everything, so I don’t care much anymore, but it was fair criticism and her initial response was pretty bad, which she admitted.
@@Irrelevant210she’s getting more attention because who she is but that’s part of being a celebrity and making money off of it. If she didn’t then she probably wouldn’t have even been considered for the position and chosen as the face of the company.
Plus as a face of a company you can’t be acting stupid and saying stupid things. You are pretty much representing the company and will be held in a bigger spotlight.
Kinda how valekrae didn’t think she deserved alll the hate but wanted all the praise of her skin company. You can’t have the cake and eat it too.
If a higher position person said something like her j wouldn’t have cared too much but when the face of the company attacks somebody or says something stupid I’m going to criticize the hell out of them.
@@edwardlomeli5657 yeah that’s quite literally what I was saying but yeah lmao.
bro you are just god damn good at what you do. I only watch mogul mail occasionally and some events you do but you generally seem like a great guy.
More than anything, it feels like this is more of a personality issue, IMO. If you talk down on people and have a history of doing so, people will remember.
i wonder if it goes both ways... you know, haters just hating. Kinda makes sense she's just reacting mean to people looking for an excuse to bring her down a notch over cookies.
Why shouldn't she talk back at haters though? She never talks bad about people for no reason or discriminates against certain groups, unlike other famous streamers, and still, she gets the most hate for saying something.
@@jojo.turtlefunny how complaining about outrageous prices is now considered being a "hater"
People forget the stuff / drama she's has been part of
@@jojo.turtle Imagine thinking the chatter was rude lol. Just wait till you see her unban requests
While I think the whole thing is a bit blown out of proportion there has been some talks about the cookies and how she proclaimed they were a 2 year project that they've put their hearts and soul into developing only to it then come out that the cookies are pretty much a repackage of cookies that were previously sold (yes I know they added mushroom powder to get + vitamin D). She also in the stream called people idiots who couldn't do math since she's selling 4 bags at 28$ but since their 4 bags their only 7$ per bag not 28$. So clearly her cookies are "cheaper".
However the previous price of the cookies were 10$ and the bag sold was about 4 times as big since previous bag was around 397g/14oz for 10$ while the new bags are 114g/4oz each for 7$. So you used to pay 10$ for 397g (14 oz) but now you gotta pay 28$ for 456g / 16oz. But of course she only mentions the price per "bag" but that she's taking 1.75$ per oz instead of the previous 0.715ish $ per oz doesn't matter . She then also called the "one" viewer broke if he couldn't afford it. While I won't call the cookies a scam like a lot of people seem to do it's clearly false marketing when the cookies were launched and it's clear they've done a price mark up on them since the price is way higher.
stop comparing per bag, her bag has 4oz the midnight one has 14oz, 3.5x the ammount for 10$. It's a scam there is no discussion
you know that those 4 "packs" are 4oz right? and it doesn't really matter what kinda packs these are because you can't buy those smaller 4 oz packs separate! The starting pack is 28$ there is no cheaper version!!!
Maybe calling it a scam would be legally irresponsible but it is a clear and honestly offensive cash-grab with a 2.45x markup for very slight changes in ingredient sourcing and added vitamin d. She also claims that the cookies are somehow "healthy" when the nutrition facts are 1 to 1 the same as the "midnight cookies" which were not considered a health option at all or marketed as such. All this is compounded by the fact that she frequently criticizes other streamers for cash-grabs and has made it a key part of her outward moral philosophy that she doesn't wish to profit off her viewers as she states that she is already a millionaire and doesn't need more money. I'd say the outrage is blown out of proportion but not necessarily undeserved.
@@bobdan6030 dishonest scheme is what it is
Poki lied about the bag buddy go to poki school you need more math
Bro ain’t no way Lud hit me with that swipe bidet price mix up. Shit was kinda clean
My issue is if you're going to say "it's $7 a bag" to people complaining at the $28 price tag but you can't buy just one bag and insult thier intolerance when they are in fact correct that it's $28 for cookies you come off so out of touch with reality that perhaps Pokie needs to just try to ground herself again.
Not to mention comparing the two cookies by "bag" was very deceptive. Her single bag of cookies is $7 for 4 oz., while the other brand's was $10 for 14 oz.
@@jc3drums916 Yeah and she gives that attitude like if that was a gotcha moment, where 4 oz is a ridiculously small bag. This kind of comment is such a PR nightmare, because at every level it really is indefensible.
Yall have to be unserious, selling a single 7$ unit online is obviously not a reliable business model and not a good offer for the customer ( who would pay that much shipping for a single unit ???????), it only makes sense of her to offer a multiple pack bundle in a single box, if her product is gonna be distributed in stores, buying a single unit is probably gonna be possible
You've missed the point they're making entirely though. They're saying that trying to claim it's actually 4x $7 bags of cookies is still straight up lying because they aren't physically purchasable for that price anywhere. The product is $28 full stop. There's no $7 anywhere to be found. It doesn't exist.@@pipo398
@@jc3drums916he literally says in the video how the brands are different. And poki also addressed that you just choose not to listen. On top of that if you’re complaining about the price you were never going to buy it in the first place. Most new online food brands only let you buy in bulk. That’s just how that works. You can’t buy $100 worth of cookies and complain that they’re expensive. You get what you paid for
Ludwig is such a down to earth, chill guy. He's like a cool talkative friend I never had. Keep it up, bro.
I'm sure he would love to be all of our friends on an intimate level!
we found ludwigs alt
Sir this Mr. Mogul Mail not Ludwig
Go away, he's _my_ best friend!
What does ludwig have to do with this video?
I like this new phase of Ludwig actually using his journalism skills
Facts ludwumg news anchor mood is good
Who's Ludwig do you mean mogul mail
biased like a true journalist
Too much bias
@@Muichi__ average troll attempt
7:14 "I'm doing that right now" Lmao
self-aware king
The thing is is that it IS a general statement to everybody. Sure it was in response to that one person, but it applies to anyone who thought the cookies were expensive, to anyone who thinks 7$ for a bag of cookies is a lot.
Exactly. And general statements like that tend to reach a much larger audience way outside of your actual reach, especially when you're famous.
but like is what she said really that bad? this is so blown out of proportion and if people dont want to spend that much then dont, you can and probably do ignore that this product even exists. People are only angry here cause they want to be angry
Well, Girl Scout cookies cost the same. And I never seen somebody to get mad at Girl Scouts.
@IamAlmostRealWitch True, but the girl scouts don't go around calling people broke boys and dumbasses. Though, it def was blown out of proportion, and she did say something she didn't mean (It happens, we are all human).
WOW! someone over the internet called an obvious, rude chatter in the chat "broke", where 99% of her normal fans in chat could care less. lets cancel her!
12:50 This is a really good point. Honestly I’ve known people who started out with a nice small audience and then over time as they got bigger they worried more and more about doing something that might be considered “controversial”
@Ludwig, You can't use google trends as an example. You purposely used "Ludwig Ahgren" instead of just "Ludwig". So I did the google trend " Pokimane vs. Ludwig" and guess who won? You did. In the past 12 months you were bigger than her on most searched. I know you are not that stupid to use "Ludwig Ahgren" instead of "Ludwig". The general people know you as "Ludwig" not "Ludwig Ahgren". You can make your case since you named yourself after a character but I still rest my case that people refer you as just "Ludwig".
Her friends want the viewers to be charitable towards poki, when they’ve never been charitable going after creators they don’t like
Like gundam....
Yeah, this video feels HEAVILY biased despite Ludwig saying he does his" research'
@@3selfbut he's just dumb
"What she said was wrong, but she's in the same circle as me, so let's downplay what she said."
someone gets it thank god
Exactly what I thought tbh I see Ludwig usually defending his fellow streamers
It's really nice to see such a thoughtful and nuanced take in these situations. I like the point you made about the neutral people who appear when people are famous, im certainly one of those people when it comes to Poki and its true that we're easily swayed. That's an important factor in situations like these that I think a lot of people might miss.
Also the getting angry on someone else's behalf when that group hasnt even been complaining, I hope that aspect of the internet becomes self-aware soon. Mob mentality is so scary
Pokimane is a weirdo. She responded in a hypocritical way and is just using the incel and misogynistic card.
@@idkwhattoputheretbhbuthereexactly. She’s fake af
Im also a neutral guy, i watch a little poki stuff but just casually. That said, The broke boy clip DID upset me, not on behalf of viewers, but directly. Having a millionaire say your a broke boy because you cant shell out that much for snacks isnt just relevant to her viewers. It can be insulting to anyone who hears it. I dont care where she got her money, its a damn bad look.
And to people who will say "oh, it was on her stream and your not a stream viewer so you dont understand, it wasnt meant for you", for someone who regularly pulls audiences of that size they are absolutely aware their opinion goes beyond their chat and have to act appropriately. All kinds of podcasts and news shows get shit for saying something stupid that goes viral too. Poki is an excellent and experienced broadcaster, she knows better.
@@idkwhattoputheretbhbuthereit's especially hypocritical when the incel community is what she took advantage of to make her millions.
When it's working in her favor, she's fine with it. The second it starts working against her, it's misogyny and underserved. Pick a lane, I'm so done with this convenient, white woman feminism.
@@Bullseye-YT not gonna lie though, as a broke boy, im not offended. cant get offended at a fact lol. i dont watch poki much, and she shouldnt have said that, BUT i do think the whole thing is blown way out of proportion as it usually is whenever poki comes across my screen.
charging as much for rebranded cookies as dispensaries charge for edibles is just insane
I don’t hate the white labeling I just hate the price
@@somethingsomething2665 also when lud white labelled, he priced DOWN the bidets, while poki multiplied, it doesnt even makes sense to compare
@@thegodsbrand agreed
@somethingsomething2665 not to mention the amount you get. $7 4oz bags is crazy lol
I like to watch your videos normally. But from a completely objective sense, you have to acknowledge that you are close to her and that impacts your commentary on this situation.
yeah you can tell he has a sort of bias towards the situation and isn’t particularly looking at the viewers point of the situation which is … meh
@@harumtaha3102 Yeah I get what you are saying. Although, I HIGHLY DOUBT he is neglecting that view on purpose. And, to be honest, I think he did an amazing job going over the nuances of the situation. I can definitely still tell bias is coming through his position as a streamer.
As opposed to who? Did pokimane personally injure you? Her fans, if they feel insulted, will leave her. If they don't, why do you care?
@@micahcreator7014 I agree. Ludwig made good points, yet, there are legitimate points to the flak that pokimane is receiving, and I wish that was acknowledged - points beyond the “ok she shouldn’t have said that, it was a mistake”. It’s one thing to have these counterpoints, but it’s another thing for Pokimane to defend herself while also admitting fault, taking accountability and learning from this experience. I think to me and many others, it just speaks about her character. But tbh, this really isn’t that deep
@@TheStrangeBlokewhy you care about random comment against Ludwig or Pokimane? Did that comment injured you?
Practice what you preach.
Heres the best way to sum up the actual situation. Poki basically is reselling cookies that already existed but making them way more expensive (Scammer) she got called out shes not happy and still tip toes around her saying rude things (Does the its just a prank bro thing and says its expensive for SOME not admitting she purposely over priced them to scam)
The Bias because she's your friend is SO OBVIOUS AND DISAPOINTING
Nah it’s also because he had a past obsession with her
the story was so controversial ludwig had to go into hiding to report on it, a true journalist
i loled good job
You are doing all this mental gymnastics because you are her friend.
It's so nice to see this opinion here. It's what I felt from the beginning. She was so stupid to call the chatter broke. But this whole event is a non-issue.
Yeah, I think she snapped at the moment (and shouldn't have). And that's it. The fact that this became a big controversy is so dumb imo.
@@ItsJustValHere how is it controversial exactly? theres not much controversy about the issue. even people defending pokimane start their comments with "she was so stupid to call the the chatter broke" as seen here.... So what is the controversy exactly?
Are you saying this just because people are making content at it and you wish it was other content? I could definitely agree with that lol.. but this is just reaping what you sow. She is known to be pretty two-faced/rude/'fake' and people love to tear into those people when they drop the "mask" .. i mean that goes all the way down to your friend groups. Now imagine youre a multi millionaire public figure. This happens to all of them, but in particular when youre just easily unlikable or have a history with these sorts of "dropping the mask".
Like Asmongold says, "Never break character."
@@hunterjobrien how i see it, the controversy is you shouldnt really insult/talk down to your fans about their finicial situation when selling them merch. This situaiton is the exact same as the other twitch streamer who mocked her fans over a $5 twich sub. its not about the cookies, theyre just like every other product that alot of streamers/youtubers push, overpriced merch.
@@hunterjobrien i mean i agree with your comments about her being two-faced, but to answer your question - it is a controversy because the people against her are making some of these arguments, among others. I don't agree with Ludwig that it's all for clicks - in my opinion, some of the people against her have a hate b0n3r for her content and feel that she's "always getting what she wants" / gets preferential treatment. It's people who are transferring their feeling (of hate towards internet platforms/bias), towards her.
@@SwitchMaxFX That isn't controversial though.. I'm still trying to find out what the controversy is behind the criticism of her character.
The main "argument" I'm seeing is just twisting and downplaying the verbiage around what she did, like Ludwig did in this video.
Ludwig used a google trend comparison of him vs Poki, and the fact that he has white listed a bidet as his defense... that should tell you all you need to know about how "controversial" this topic is.
"she's helping the economy" had me dead
mogul mail looking absolutely big for us today
I'm just here for story time after long work days. Always makes me laugh.
Is the world sexist? -yes
Are poki's cookies a scam? -yes
Are people broke? -yes
CASE CLOSED!
Huh... guess we did clear all that up.
A scam? Who the hell was tricked into buying Poki’s cookies?
Last I checked, a scam was promising something they never intend to deliver on. Poki’s cookies do deliver on what they advertise. Anyone who looks at the price and package know what they are getting into.
The real question is:
Are Poki’s cookies overpriced for their real value compared to other products? Yes.
@@fishnewt1331yeah 'cause i don't think cookies can be a scam, they're still just cookies and that's what she is selling
@@fishnewt1331 It is per definition a scam since she is deceiving her audience by promoting the cookies as original when they are a literal rip-off. Regardless if you call it a scam or not its a shitty thing to do, especially because shes been high-roading and criticising other people for the same things she did just now
The biggest problem is she said something that alienated everyone who is financially struggling, viewer or not. To me, that is the biggest reason it garnered such widespread attention. Its not just a streamer saying something stupid. It's a multi-millionare calling her largely middle class, or lower, audience "broke". Look up the recent reaction to the NY Giant lineman saying anyone talking badly about him is basically flipping burgers. Statements like this talk down to that vast majority of the public. If it hits major media, it just comes across like your condescending to people who don't know you and those people are not going to give the benefit of the doubt
Ludwig really puts his journalism degree to work on this channel, I really appreciate the level headedness of this take. I knew it was the only video I could watch on this drama, given how vicious the comments have been in pretty much every other space.
Or because Pokimane is Ludwig's friend?
@@M3lly22 I mean, are they? I don't think that changes the validity of what he said. Plus, I try not to project any kind of relationship onto two people I do not know.
@@zebrathinker validity of what? she google trends higher = hear more hate because more people bigger sample size? Or that its white labeled and "people do this" ?
Ludwig didnt really say anything in this video.
@@hunterjobrien I don't understand this point lol. Yes he said those things and yes they are valid things to consider.
@@zebrathinker Valid things to consider for what? I'm asking you, and yes its very apparent you dont understand.
The main point people seem to be making is a criticism of her character, which she seems to get a lot of. She's fake/two-faced/disingenous.
So how exactly do Ludwigs points counter that? They dont. He's misdirecting to an offshoot issue people have with the marketing of a product.
Even Ludwig didn't try to argue against the criticism of her character. But, maybe worse, he downplayed it and twisted the verbiage around it. Not very "journalism major" but also verrrrry journalism major lol.
Since you compared her to yourself Lud, I think another distinction between how people view you vs her besides "they're sexist," (which I think is less of the issue) or "she's more famous," (a little more convincing) is that people have already disliked her for awhile before from other drama moments in her past, whereas you have rarely had such things happen if at all.
This is partly due to how she can come across, whether truthfully or untruthfully, that she can seem more aloof and less humble to those that don't know her, whereas you seem to be more open/honest and self-depricating in manner.
That’s a super interesting take. Depending on the content, I’ve definitely always found poki to seem a bit more honest of a content creator. However that may be because I’m coming from a female perspective. Not in a ‘ahhh sexism way’, just that I know I have few to no male content creators who are being truly vulnerable in a way that resonates with me, albeit society makes it much harder for men to open up like that in general. I love lud, definitely watch him more than any other creator, but for the humble, honest, open feeling I tend to go to QT, Sydeon, poki, etc. I’m super excited that poki mentioned starting a podcast with QT as the first guest, I hope it turns out well!
I'm pretty sure most of the people still holding water for past "drama" aren't being genuine in their criticism about the cookies. Similar to what ludwig said, most of the people who're drama baiting and farming already didn't like her, so the cookies were just an excuse to pile on her.
I think the bigger issue is calling someone broke if they criticize you charging 7$per pack (fing insane price tbh) especially if it's only a rebrand. Just be open about it instead of hiding behind insults
@@wutthe8284if you think that the price point argument if being held in bad faith, then idk what to tell you. she says its a joke about calling the chatter broke, but at the same time called others incels, and again, despite saying that price will be considered in her next batch its hard to believe it . yes people will dogpile on creators they dont like, but if you refuse to stay on the topic and brush off all criticism with “misogyncels”, then that just makes you look bad. also, “incel rhetoric” is shaming for the lack of sex. i thought this was a bad thing.
@@lvl5charmanderIncel as an insult isn't shaming for lack of sex. It's a term used to insult those who become woman haters due to lack of sex with women in their life. Ppl shame them for how pathetic and stupid they act regarding any issue revolving around the female gender. No ones shaming them for their sex life.
oh god, a sensible viewpoint that doesn't try to hate farm the situation. Even basically says "stop complaining, and let time do it's thing". Reddit surely won't appreciate this video
As an extra note, I think twitter also exacerbates this problem. For example, I follow some Twitch streamers on Twitter, so alot of the time, Twitter's algorithm will show me controversies of Twitch streamer I have no vested interest in (as Ludwig put it, I'm "neutral" on them), and really try to get me to engage with tweets involving them, to the point that i will just mute key words just so I don't see the topic anymore. For example, the past two weeks, Twitter has really tried to get me to care about this pokimane drama or the dream drama, even though i dont follow those people or engage with their content in any capacity. I'm just trying to see what Sykkuno and CDawgVA are up to man, why you gotta show everyone and their mother's opinion about some overpriced cookies?
mogul mail: i only make videos of topics i think are important
also mogul mail: today were talking about cookies!
At this point I'm more convinced that pokimane treats her fans as a walking bank
Actually every single video on this channel is fucking goated like no matter what the topic is Lud is just such a fire journalist and I think its dope that he incorporates his passion for it in a channel that lets it shine all by itself too it deserves it massive W imo
Should get a job at a donut shop w how much u like glazingggggg
I've seen so many rude comments about this situation and I refused to make any comments about it until I got a better understanding of things and this video really helped.I just wish those commenters saw this before saying what they were saying.
I don't see an issue with her selling her product for $28, if people want to buy it they will. I agree with Charlie and Asmons take on it regarding her outburst on stream. Ultimately I don't think it's a big deal, it's just cookies. Just don't buy them.
@@migo70 The issue is the lack of transparency. I don't care who you are if you're just rebranding a product and selling it at a markup without letting people know it's a whitelabel fuck you.
@@migo70 It's because Pokimane is the main actor in this. She is known to be a narcisisstic sociopath at every corner and whenever she gets some calling out by the audience, she always slips her mask off. In any other case, it wouldn't be a big deal, but she keeps bragging about how not interested in financial gain she is and how good of a person she is because she doesn't want money like all these other streamers. Then she goes on and does bs like this which is clearly a rip-off. When people call her our on it, she starts going on the offensive to call her fans names/slurs to invalidate their criticism, which results in people calling her out even more until she apologizes with her soft, innocent fake voice. Every controversy the dumbass has been following the same trend and she never learns her lessom.
@@migo70 It's fine for her to do. But it contradicts her whole speech about being rich enough and not needing to milk her audience (the one she gave when she capped donations at 5 dollars). Also her constant criticism of other streamers for doing "cringe" things to make money.
@@michaelh878 I don't watch her so I can't comment on anything else other than my neatural view on this.
This guy trying to do damage control for Pokimane 😂
that clip of poki is awfully reminiscent to the super famous clip of that one girl complaining that her viewers can't spend $5 on her (to sub on twitch)
So nice to see a real and transparent take from some one with a closer status to the person being attacked. Thanks Lud!
yeah and a way better take than what hasan said.
"transparent" sure
that is exactly not what you want "a closer status to the person being attacked" a more unbiased person would have had a better take oh what am i talking about moist already has one
@@bluegate4630 "a more biased person would have a better take". That's the dumbest thing I've heard in a while, thanks.
@@TheKoolAidMan12 I think he meant unbiased, otherwise it doesnt make sense
Ludwig defending Poki hard 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I love when Ludwig debriefs drama, it's so satisfying
does it really affect you?
I like it cuz he doesnt treat it like a creator saying something bad is the end of the world
@@Jc-pu3cx affect? what are you talking about lol
@@mourning_sun_LMAOOO
So cool to see Ludwig doing Mogul Mail right after time travelling a decade and a half for that haircut
As a person who is largely removed from all of these fluff being an observer for years. I think at this point it’s the fact of the internet that if pokimane does something mildly reprehensible, it’s a free dunk. This have been happening over and over again.
And from time to time she'll let her personality slip up and do something wildly reprehensible.
@@hayze7006you can only act for so long
I think at first people 10:19 were angry because she was being disingenuous saying it was a unique product shes been working on for 2 years. If she was honest like lud thered be no controversy
How is that a lie? Do you know how long it takes to rebrand something? Legally, liability, market research… 2 years seems about right. She didn’t say she took two years making just cookies. The whole process took 2 years.
@@90sByNatureyeah, lud said his process took about a year as well.
I do respect we have a big steamer that knows that providing a second opinion on a topic and not going with the mob is important, got the balls knowing to provide your thoughts rather than be a sellout for easy fame.
Also I do not like her for other reasons, but the fact people complain about her cookies and not about all the other youtubers doing similar things is crazy.
Thanks for being one of the few to push for individual thought and not going with the crowd!
Love u lud
He is literally just defending a good friend your acting like this isnt biased just like all the takes are lol
@@MintBerryCrunch you forgot about a certain good friend drama. that he provided his opinion unbiased
Eh not really. No one gives a shit that it was white labeled, which he makes it look like. The issue is that just because it’s supposedly “better” ingredients and the added vitamin D, doesn’t make it very fair to be marked up by three times the price of the cheaper ones. Especially when you’re getting less cookies per bag than the ones that are literally cheaper. As for the clip of her calling someone a broke boy, I don’t think anyone really thought people cared, it was more that it’s just a horrible way to respond to criticism and also just sounded really condescending.
what other streamers are reselling the exact product basically for a 300% markup and then calling their righoutlesly angry and upset audience idiots and broke bitches?
@@Irrelevant210Across different suppliers, ingredients can be pretty varied in price, a 1.5x increase is not improbable and vitamin d is not a drop in the bucket ingredient either.
But by my reasonable guess, it's still not close and the rest is just creator hype, which imo is fine. If people want to buy kinda expensive chocolate cause mrbeast is on it, they can buy kinda expensive cookies as well, this is how creator products seem to work and you can question that but it's not an inexplicable price.
Some people try to annoy streamers just to get drama clips, this however is 100% a mask off moment.
Mask off moment is correct. You can be 100% sure that "broke boy" is a daily expression for her. Living in her own out of touch world.
I've literally seen Pokimane hate since like the first day I've been on the internet. There were like 50 hate campaigns against her during the leafy stuff. That same hate has just carried over through the years cause people already built their biases based on that era of the internet.
Maybe but she launches herself into drama for example when xqc went to kick and says he’s pretty much a sell out then tries to play the victim. Then when she is trying to make as much bank as possible just like X and gets called out she lashes out and now she’s going to go on the defensive again. Just saying I think she is completely detached from reality and in general just a shitty person.
Mogul Mail never fails to impress us with the best camera set up.
I love the angle & expressions @ 11:00 - 11:30
Bro, this is basically a rescue video for pokimane fans. LOL
Someone here has common sense. Thanks for being unbiased and honest Ludwig.
Ok that's 🧢 right here
"ils n'ont pas de biscuits?, Qu'ils mangent de la brioche!"
-Pokimane 2023
I get you're her friend but I'm pretty sure a good amount of her viewers didn't like being called broke idiots.
Also she gets more dislikes because she has more controversies than you and her content history isn't as good.
Agreed. There are several famous people where even though they have a lot of haters, they're not _this_ noticable since they have way more fans who love them. Probably has to do with the celeb not insulting their viewers, specifically copyrighting negative videos of them, etc lol
this logic at the end makes 0 sense. lmao classic ludwig
Love your videos!
I enjoy your videos because you cover both sides, you do research and your reasoning I can understand even if I don’t agree. I agree with majority of your videos so keep up the good work! 👍🏾.
The issue is you don't launch a product and then shit talk people for not being able to afford it. Should have just ignored the idiot in chat or timed him out.
She actually made the product healthier by selling you less cookies for more money so you don't consume as much of them😂
LMAO
add the mushroom powder lmao
you have to give it to Ludwig, man straight up tells you anytime he does anything or sells something, Hey its my brand name / white label that I bought but helped designed and thats why i either sell it a certain price or so on. Poki should have Hired you for the Advertising / Marketing especially since he is able to explain it rationally.
If you’re willing to defend Poki, you should also criticise and be honest about the pricing points. That way it would seem more genuine and wouldn’t seem that you’re just defending your friend.
I feel like using ur bidet argument is kinda a bad argument, no? You buy a bidet, and can use it for awhile and eventually have to replace it later later on down the line, getting your money's worth. Whereas you buy the 4 pack of cookies for $28, like them, keep buying them, and it adds up. It's not jus a one-n-done deal, after you already ate the 1st pack, you're already paying more than what you'd be paying for ur bidet, doesnt make much sense to me.
ain't no fking way she was joking with that statement
“I was joking” Why did you want to make that joke in the first place? Why would you ever think it was funny?
@@RyBrown the joke was that it was a clap back at an harasser (her usual dexerto type of haters), i would've said meaner things If i was harassed the same way.
@@Lianouw Don't bother, ppl like these are prob apart of the neutral group if not the hate group
Dudes just tryna make sure he still gets invited to hangout with offline tv
Yeah he's clearly doing damage control
@@BrokenTubecast You are way too deep in the parasocial sauce.
@@BrokenTubecastDamage control or not but i think the first thought Ludwig had after this drama was "i can get a 10 min long video about this" and that's what he did. I think people defending her are also milking her and people attacking her are also milking her lol.
To add on to your theory about Poki’s hate being correlated to her fame, it is that and, the fact that she is very open in the opinions she believes in. So those who disagree with her beliefs (+ haters) try to find anything she says before that contradicts the actions she does now as a “gotcha” moment; despite the fact that beliefs are complex as the holder of said beliefs so it isn’t as black and white as the haters make it out to be. Adding on that she is a women will make those haters tunnel vision even more.
She’s famous with past controversies so lots of haters got their impressions off of that. They are the same haters that find celebrity tweets from a decade ago and try to cancel them. Haters just hold on to whatever they can. Poki’s haters still bring up the fact that she said the n word, even though it was during a different time and she has learned and grew from that
She is honestly extremely condescending and passive aggressive, acts like she's above it all but she really isn't. Like that fake giggle she does when she gets mad and is trying to act like she isn't really rubs me the wrong way. Frankly, I don't think it has anything to do with her being a woman.
Rae also got into hot water with reflct. And she got like mad mad, at her own friends/other streamers, and viewers. But I still think the way she was pissed off didn't feel half as gross as whenever poki says something super condescending to someone. Get mad, get upset, get pissed, but the way she treats people like they're literal filth and she's above them all always bothers me.
@@slashbat2375 Unless you personally know her so you can actually back your opinion that "she treats people like they're literal filth and she's above them" you need to seriously touch grass ag go offline
@@Tom-yj3dw Do I need to personally know every president to vote for them or judge them, or state a fact like @slashbat2375 did?????
Even then. How long? How long since the last interaction?
Do you have a thought about anyone, anything outside you being there or knowing them intimately???
Dude you need grass...
I don't hate her. Nor watch her. Basically neutral. But I'm curious how this fight here is gonna go.
Also even if you're a popular streamer, you're gonna get hurt by the haters. That's it, human nature. They're not perfect.
Everyone be nice to them.
In my opinion, in order for someone to ACTUALLY be "cancelled" or for them to die off, is to do something so bad that the people who like them, that first group of people, to no longer like them. This doesnt even come close. This is barely a controversy if you look at what she said as a reply to a rude commenter, instead of a general statement.
Most of the time, when we say rude things to someone for a certain reason, that comment does not apply to all people who did that thing.
If you think the chatter was rude I would like to show you tyler1, dantes, asmongold, and amouranth's chatrooms. Seemed like basic chatter streamer banter to me, not sure why it got to her like it did.
@@SunBane67 cause shes vile and the mask slipped
@@SunBane67 I mean, it was probably rude and annoying considering it was 4 days after the launch. 4 days of seeing the same negative comment is gonna take a toll on you.
@@shamusteakiawait’s an expensive product and people called her out on it. She knows it’s expensive and she acted condescending and rude.
@@bloom4807and you successfully missed the point. Good job
"major news"
"super important"
>random girl tied up in drama surrounding a cookie brand no one's heard of
Yeah, this is definitely worth reporting on.
I doubt you will read this Ludwig but on the off chance you do, know I write this because I think you're a smart guy who makes a genuine effort to empathize and see the other side, and I would love to offer the perspective of an average person looking in on this.
I understand your attempt to break this down and I don't think you're wrong for trying to rationalize this, especially with a friend, but I'm gonna keep it real as someone who really doesn't care about Pokimane, I have no beef with her, and I enjoy her content at times when I come upon it.
Why I, a regular onlooker care about this? Not a lot mind you, I have a life, but when I see things like this, I do care and get a little annoyed by it. It's because normal people like us are struggling right now. A lot. For the little guys like us, we're struggling to get by, creature comforts are harder to come by. Expensive luxury products like this feel out of touch to begin with and while it is petty to be a bit bothered seeing an expensive youtuber product I could just not buy. I do think there is some validity to my feeling in being happier seeing products like say Feastables or Prime, something I feasibly can get to treat myself, versus yet another luxury designer product I can't really hope to enjoy. But, that doesn't make me hate Pokimane, obviously not, that would be insane, that's just a thing I go "oh this kind of sucks I guess"
But what really feels out of touch with me, is millionaires talking down to us. Even you, in this, as someone I've been a fan of since Pogostuck. It feels a bit insulting to have people like you act like white labeling needs to be spoon fed, your product clearly isn't pricy for what it is (and bidets fuck, keep up the good fight), the same cannot be said for hers. No doubt it's a far higher quality product then a big pack of chips ahoy, but you also have to acknowledge that someone with a cookie budget is getting insanely less bang for their buck. People having more scrutiny for a luxury product is natural.
Do I think her comment was "mask off" or whatever? Certainly not, but I do think it was tone deaf. I think those who aren't suffering right now don't understand the depths of why people are frustrated. I think it goes far beyond "Powerful woman makes me mad" or "People jump on hate trains of famous people". I think you get anomalously less hate for your fame because you make such a genuine effort to keep it real, and, while I think nobody deserves unearned hate, nor is hate itself really healthy, consider that not everyone who speaks up is just a hater. Some of us are just upset at seeing a world we struggle to keep afloat in with privileged people in boats who don't realize anymore how hard swimming is.
Then stop watching her. No one cares because STREAMERS ARE NOT YOUR FRIEND, THEY DONT CARE THAT MUCH IF YOU WATCH OR NOT, THEY DONT HAVE SOME MORAL AUTHORITY. THEY ARE DUMBASSES WITH A STREAM WHO MADE IT OR DIDNT. If it offended you this badly, then boycott her. No one will care either way.
I completely agree w you and you couldn't have said it better.
so as someone whos struggling, do you foam at the mouth seeing expensive cars rolling down the streets?? if a product is too expensive for you, then you are not the target demographic. Yes people are struggling, so am I, but bro expensive shit is always going to exist. That whole point is stupid as hell
@@oliviermarcoux9675 i mean i agree w you but even someone wealthy wouldn't pay 7 dollars for a 4 ounce bag of cookies let alone 28 dollars for a whole pack. These are cookies not luxury cars
@@oliviermarcoux9675 plus the problem is how these cookies are triple the price of the original ones whilst having the SAME ingredients. The price would make sense if the cookies contained different ingredients or at least an amount but there's no difference between Pokis cookies and the original ones. That's why people are mad
Props Ludwig's grandfather for keeping it real. 😂😂 He was like I'm going to keep it a buck 50 with you Lud I ain't making it to 100.
Happy 90th Birthday to Grandpa Ludwig
🤣 OMG... a million percent agree!
On both the happy birthday well wishes to Ludwig's Grandpa AND the no yeast in the cookies thing. 😅
Good lord! 🤣
Dare I ask? Do I even want to know? Why do I feel like this is a Goop/Gwyneth Paltrow thing?
I just realized this channel is basically an off branded DramaAlert 💀
"She's helping the economy" is amazing
I’m glad he ignored all the points Charlie brought up in his video. Money isn’t an issue for Ludwig so I can see why he took this route.
Well he gotta protect his friend somehow
9:30 I think this whole situation is ridiculous, but the 2nd shitstorm started because Poki responded to someone IN HER CHAT. Is that guy not a viewer by definition? This situation is identical to what happened to Valkyrae and her blue light cream. Her chat questioned whether blue light cream actually does anything, Rae was dismissive about it, Twitter got wind of it, which made LSF get wind of it and then the rest is history. Starforge PCs also had the identical drama with overpriced computers and they actually addressed the concerns properly. They edited the website listing the parts, lowered the price and now they do custom case and lightbox promotions to justify the influencer upcharge. When you emphasize how much work you put in to make the product (when in reality you're just taking a pre-existing product to market), and not do the things Starforge or Swipe did, it leaves a sour* taste in everyone's mouth.
This, Poki chose to be snarky instead of respectful and now people have room to attack her character. Its also just not a good look for her character when someone asks her about her product and she chooses to be condescending instead of understanding.