I am a descendant of Lucrezia Borgia via her son, Ercole II d’Este, and eventually her 4x great-grandson, King Victor Amadeus II of Sardinia, on my mother’s side. She is my 15th great-grandmother. ❤️ Fun fact: The actress Brooke Shields is also a descendant of Lucrezia Borgia via her paternal grandmother, Marina Torlonia di Civitella-Cesi, an Italian princess from a minor princely family. 😁
@@merleharvey4783 True. They are just humans in the end of the day but nevertheless, it is still interesting to learn about your family history. Depending on how far back you can trace your family tree, you can find some interesting historical figures. But yes, I have Pope Alexander VI and if you count antipopes, I also have Antipope Felix V aka Amadeus VIII, Duke of Savoy, among my ancestors. Pope Alexander VI is one of my 16th great-grandfathers and Antipope Felix V is one of my 17th great-grandfathers.
Yes it seems that way What do you think about the rumours of incest with her father and brother? Given the reputation of the Borgias, I find it to be compelling. Which biographies do you recommend, if any?
me too . taught to watch her brother torture and kill her much loved dogs. not allowed to flinch. she hated her brothers especially Cesare. they just used her
I sometimes think a lot of these bloodlines didn’t wither away and are still as powerful and practicing the same insane behaviours there relatives were. It’s seems these powerful families did everything in their power to retain their “thrones”. I don’t think ever changing societies ever changed the core of that. That being said I hope not to cross paths with a Borgia 😂
That is what always baffles me the blood line dies with the son but the daughter's/women still carry that blood line and marry into new families but all in all that blood line still carries over. That blood line strongly carries over if they disgustedly practice incest ekkk.. -Mercy(sorry for the name confusion i am on my dad's phone at the moment)
@@richiethev4623 exactly. Victoria is credited with introducing the hemophiliac gene into most of the royal European bloodlines. Through the marriages of her children.
It's interesting that you say that since The Borgia family are the inspiration behind the Godfather movies Furthermore, a lot of European royals today are descendants of Lucrezia Borgia
It was recently discovered that syphilis had been in Europe before Columbus sailed to the Americas. In archaeological team found dozens of monks buried in a monastery who had all died from syphilis before Columbus sailed.
Columbus is a fraud, he got lost down in Central America, Christopher Columbus the fraud ain't discover a damn thang, European people brought north America nothing but lies, white lies thousands of years worth of white European lies,
I feel bad for Lucrezia. Not only did she have to put up with so much during her life. Britt for centuries after her reputation has been smeared because people did not like her family.
it's so freaking wild that the incest thing was most likely just a rumor someone made up, but in the modern day period pieces treat it as a thing that absolutely totally happened.
It's not directly, but I'm related to Lucrezia through her son Ercole II d'Este, and I'm just a regular Norwegian woman. At least I hold no political power or any such. But I have noticed that if you are related to one noble family or royal family here in Europe, you're most likely related to A LOT of them. Because for a long time they kept marrying each other. Power lays in the family, a saying goes. I guess somewhere down the line my family lost it's power, cause we're just hard working, honest, lower working class people today. Not that that is a bad thing, but we could use some extra money sometimes, lol.
Great video as always. Quick note that the idea that syphilis was brought from the Americas had been disproven. There are findings from numerous countries from previous eras of remains of individuals with syphilis. In Pompeii I believe there was even a young child that was determined to have had congential syphilis. It is pretty well documented that the disease was present before exploration to the Americas, etc.
Hot damn sir not only did you bring us all great story about an insane family of many past years….those eyes of yours are just beautiful and an added bonus to watching lol !😂😂❤️❤️ Thanks for putting out another awesome video. Happy holidays to you🎄🎄🎄
Yes you do a grreat historical The Hypocrisy of Catholicism is astounding. One rule for them and domination of power to accuse the poor of Sin. To be the Pope was powerful influence not a gift to earthly humanity , A way to control even Kings.
I love the storytelling and narration. I do have a small grievance about something you said about syphilis. The 15th century outbreak of syphilis from the Americas has been disproven. I did a research paper in nursing school about the origin and myths surrounding syphilis. It was around for 200+ years before the major outbreak of 15th century. Carbon dating skeletons found in London dates says it was around in the 11th to 12th centuries. Anyway I love your work.. its so interesting to learn about people who aren't in the history books.
Yes, it is still widely believed that syphilis was brought over from the New World as a rise in cases corresponded to the first voyages to return from there It would only have made further sense to the people of the time given the lack of medical expertise, the fact that the outbreak of smallpox in the Americas that devastated the native populations there was directly a result of contact between settlers and tribes, and whether or not they understood that it was lack of immunity to the disease which the Europeans possessed, that was the cause of the epidemic, or just realised that their arrival was immediately followed by mass infection, it was clear that something to do with the two cultures intermingling was causing this deadly disease Therefore it would have been logical to assume that transmission of disease worked both ways as well, when large numbers of people starting showing symptoms shortly after the return of the first colonists from North and South America I personally think, as you say, that the disease was around way before then; it is thought that it may have been misdiagnosed as leprosy, but whatever the case the timeframe you mention for the first instances of syphilis (11th - 12th centuries) corresponds exactly with Genghis Khan's massive expansion out from the Mongolian steppes and the swift conquering of vast tracts of land and subjugation of neighbouring empires that made the Mongols so feared; they were not only highly effective warriors and conquered at a speed no-one had ever seen before but they used absolutely brutal tactics such as catapulting plague-ridden victims over the walls of cities to cause a surrender and it is thought this is how the Black Death spread to Europe So given the similar timeframe it would not be inconceivable to assume that this is how the first cases of syphilis also made their way into Europe
Also,: It is thought that the Mongols' use of plague-infected corpses as biological warfare and the proximity of their armies and sieges to the silk road, which leads from eastern China straight into Europe, was the vector by which the Black Death first appeared, but it may have brought syphilis as well This was also the time of the Crusades further bringing Europeans into proximity with Asian peoples Since it is a sexually transmitted infection, its effects would have been something people tried to hide, and would have been prevalent in brothels; since these could only be frequented by the upper classes and wealthier among society, these noblemen would not have wanted to stain their reputation by it being public knowledge they had contracted it This may have contributed to the misdiagnosis as leprosy, as mentioned above. It may also be that contact with the new world, would have resulted in widespread rape of native women, after their men had been slaughtered. This would have been a war crime far away from Europe and easily covered up by the participants. And resulted in a breeding ground for the disease, if the men had carried it over to the new world with them. It is of course also still possible that syphilis was a sort of reversal of the smallpox situation, a disease that native Americans had immunity to but not Europeans. But, again, If that were the case, then one must ask how they became infected in the first place, if not for widespread rape. Consensual intercourse may have happened, but was likely not the primary vector Or, it may be a combination of all of the above factors. An interesting yet complex question.
Thanks for sharing another interesting yet weird family. One thing I will say. I'm so glad I'm not of Royal nobility. So many had the oddest behavior. If they didn't like you, you could be killed. This one takes the cake. It's beyond weird.no movie or book could do her or her family justice. True it's fascinating. To keep remarrying and having all those children, who knows how many lovers. It's not surprising she didn't live past 40. Maybe her brother just wanted to keep her safe. If they did engage in explicit relationship and unless she gave birth to some children with health problems. One would never know .I love my life just fine.would never want my husband chosen for me. I love hearing these stories. But so glad I live in this era. As crazy as it is. I'm ok.👍💯❤🙂✌🧘♀️🙌. Love,respect, and positivity always. Neita james.🙂👋.
Jean Plaidy wrote incredibly well researched historical 'novels' including ones about the Borgias. I learned a lot of European history reading her books. Worth a search.
The Borgia Familia was very interesting. Some say Lucretia like Elizabeth Bathroy were monsters but they were also powerful women. This time period and even today powerful women are seen as ......, while men are not scrutinized. Is quite sad this still happens now, but things are getting better. From what I've read even Marie Antoinette was blamed for many things that she didn't do. Also, I'm sure that Lucretia was no angel, but probably had to do things that kept her ahead of the game during that misogynistic time period in history.
Most historians view Lucrezia more sympathetically as a pawn. She was loved in Ferrara and deeply mourned after her death. Those rumors of murder which she allegedly involved & incest have no historical proof. I doubt she is a monster.
Lets not forget, propaganda is nothing new, and then as well as now women has been scrutinized more than men. I guess if someone wanted the Borgia family to look bad it was easier to blame Lucrezia for a lot of things than her powerful father or brother.
i've recently read a manwha (korean comic) that is loosely based on her story. i kept hearing things that sounded familiar during the video so i double checked and the family name of the main character is literally borgia, her family has a lot of influence in the church and she's been married 3 times 😭 i had no idea she was a real person, it kinda hits deeper
Lucrezia was treated like every other high-born, noble girl and including princesses. The way the popes operated is literally the reason why we separate church and state today. I’ve always seen the kings and queens as figureheads. The pope was running the most of Europe. He crowned and uncrowned kings, sanctioned wars and if you disobeyed the slightest, he sent his “Papal” army to kick your butt. I kind of felt sorry for Lucretzia, some of her marriages were atrocious, but at the same time I wondered why their father never forced Cesare to marry. The Borgia pope acted like a king and treated his kids as princes and princesses. Religion has always been a scam.
@@fandemusique4693 The papal army wasn’t the most powerful and certainly not the most long lived, but it did fight with Rome and some other small territories and did very well under Caesare Borgia as general.The pope didn’t need an army outside of the Vatican and Italy proper, I agree. More to protect him at home. His influence and the inherent power is what made the pope, “the man.” HenryVIII created his own darn church that he headed, now overseen by Elizabeth II, because the pope wouldn’t “let” him divorce, dispose and decapitate his wives on demand.
Thank you for putting a spotlight on people's lives which we probably would've never heard of, if not for this channel. When I look at old paintings of cityscapes and landscapes and find some people painted there, I always wonder, what kind of lives they had. They may be nameless and faceless now, but they had a name and a face, a job, a family, and a life. I'm so curious to know about them.
I feel the same way, and wonder about all the same things. My curiosity leads me on all kinds of paths, which often seem like wild goose chases as there is no way of knowing everything that interests me. This channel helps.
It still is I believe. Most women can’t stomach “messy” murder and lack the physical strength when trying to (strangle, stab etc.) kill a man. I notice women also use coercion of others, like lovers or even their kids, although that’s pretty rare. Even when women choose to use guns they usually wait until the man is vulnerable, like sleeping or facing the other way.
@@LotsofLisa i don't think this that women can't stomach but that women are more calculated and working to ensure that their murder is successful. I think men, like in most things, are given more to emotion led murders often working out of high doses of adrenaline and thus with a lower IQ during the murder...physically more prone. I would absolutely love for someone to compile the data and like studies to see which point of view more closely mimics the sciences. I find your point of view equally interesting 🤔 all i have done is casually study murder and like speaking from my perception of male lead murder, female murder in couples and then like solo woman murder. That shapes my pov.
Very, very interesting. All the intrigue and obvious hard work and so much research that has gone into making these documentaries. They are fascinating!
Arguably, Italian history is the most relatable, exciting and shocking of all European histories with its bloodiness, scheming, shifting alliances, papal politics, screaming ambition, even between family members _ so that fratricide, regicide and any murder appeared likely at any given time. Perhaps even infanticide figures in amid the world's most glamourous people set in the most ostentatious quarters - a paparazzi dreamscape - a journalists muse.
Captain Edmond Blackadder : It is a cunning plan, with one Tiny flaw, you are the worlds worst cook . Private Baldrick : Oh yeah. Blackadder : If you were to cook for the General staff you would be arrested for the greatest mass poisoning since Lucrezia Borgia invited 500 of her closest friends around for a wine and anthrax party.
"won the pope contest"... They rock-paper-sizzor for it or was it a raffle? "Showed up dead"... interesting phrase. How are women be less likely to catch syphilis?
Lucrezia Borgia was similar to today's famous house of the Hollywierd Kardashian's who get away with what ever, but if they run out of cash, the ones they call friends now will tell all kinds of strange things if they do ??? So the moral to the story of Lucretia Borgia is never run out of cash or you could wind up like Amber Heard with out a job.
Update: recent archaeological finds have established that syphilis had been in Europe long before Columbus' voyage to the Americas. Ref skeletal remains of a monastery in Hull, UK for starters. I do appreciate your even handed reporting of your research.
Hello, Thank you so much for your fabulous video. Many historians think Lucrezia Borgia was much maligned, and was a pawn in her father's devious and murderous machinations, with which I agree. Her Father was a power-mad tyrant and prolific fornicator, perhaps even with his poor, beautiful daughter! He was debauched, dissolute and a megalomaniac. Xxxx
Hi there! I've never actually seen you before. Right handsome young man😉 Not being creepy. I've got grandsons your age lol. Think I told Mort that once too. I watched the series on this family. They never actually finished it sadly. It was pretty hard core tho. More so even than the Tudors. Imho. One hell of a nasty mess that was. But that's the Catholic way haha. They've never stopped with the scandalous shite. Thank you for doing this. It was well thought out and gave a bit more closure to that circus. Hope you and yours are being safe and have great holidays!🕊️🎄🤘
I always enjoy your videos! The stories you tell are very interesting. You are very handsome and have a wonderful voice for narrating 😉 Gracias por tus vídeos. Haces un buen trabajo 😊
Just a small Note, We now know syphilis was not brought by by Europeans from from the new world.. Scientists have found Roman Remains with standard syphiletic markers, making the disease in Europe much older than previously thought. As such, most people did not live long enough at that time for their bones to display these Syphiletic markers We are accustomed to seeing today.
One she wasn't a monster, her dad the pope had her married for gain and when the time drew off he had his oldest son kill them but dear old dad got his and brother too.
Say what you want about Pope Alexander VI . He was definitely immoral by having children while being a Priest etc. but he really did adore his children and was a doting father. We can objectively say At least Alexander vi was a Catholic, unlike the current Pontiff on st Peter's throne.....
If women and children are as important as stated verbally, there would have never been a such thing as incest anywhere at any time. This kind of stuff then is why we have things like polygamy now. Child protective services needs to be just as focused as cia or fbi is on the wanted & the only definition of a standby should be the person who was stranding by saw that and stopped it. She was pretty much raped to death, she died from birthing a kid that was probably her dads or brothers. Nobody should be making movies like it was sexy. Ugh, like people rooting for Freddy Kruger (a dude who raped killed and took apart children), there is nothing normal about that.
She also was in charge of Spoleto, a city in extreme stress over a neighbor city treating them cruelly. Water rights or trade hangups, anyway, when she was in charge she made a diplomatic peace for her city. Secondly ... Syphilis is not from America, research has proven. Thanks, she deserves objective treatment ...
I remembered that the Borgias had connections to the Pope, and I also believe one of them (the César Borgia who was Lucrezia’s brother?) had inspired the political ramblings of Niccolo Machiavelli. His idea of the ideal Prince was shaped on one of the Borgias. I read this in H.G. Wells’ “Outline of History,” in his chapter on the Renaissance (the chapter numbers vary based on which edition you read).
I think Cesare only inspired chapter 7 of The Prince. The rest of the book is mostly about the Medici Pope Leo. If I remember my AP History correctly, Cesare was supposed to be an example of how having a title only (with no ancestral lands) would eventually be his downfall. I also think Cesare & Rodrigo were both keenly aware of this. Which is why they were so desperate to establish him as a ruler ANYWHERE. The "Duke Valentino" title was a courtesy bestowed by the French King ... But he could not, rightfully, bestow the lands of the Romagna, on him. If Rodrigo had lived a bit longer I think Cesare would have been a force to be reckoned with.
The Borgias weren't all reprobates. They did produce one saint, St. John Borgia. If he had stayed a layman he would've been extremely wealthy and powerful. But he gave everything up and became a Franciscan.
You make great videos, I have just found you today and already have watched as many as 10 I think 😀. However, there's one misconception here, which, as a microbiologist, I feel urge to explain. Syphilis was not brought to Europe from Natives in America after Columbus had come. There are studies which are only recent, that shows syphilis was ancient European illness and that it was also present in England in XIII century.
Saying people brought syphilis back from the Americas is largely thought to be untrue now. A child's body found in a village close to Pompei, from the time of the disaster, shows clear signs of syphilis. Debunking your fact.
Its crazy just thinking back then having more than 4 kids was your duty. I have 1 and had 5 miscarriages in my 20s I probably would have been dead already.
What a family!so warm and caring☺️so long as you agreed with them🤫and never say no,loved it,and the gorgeous illustrations, definitely add to it, thankyou👍
My feeling is that Lucrezia was more sinned against than sinner. There is another lady, Olimpia Maidalchini, who would be worthy of your attention. She was lampooned as being olim pia -formerly pious.
Nothing changes. Woman of rank are always vilified and treated as dangerous . The truth is that most woman of Lucrezias class , were mere pawns of the ambitions of the powerful men around her. A woman of intelligence and beauty was most often treated with suspicion . Lucrezias notoriety was complicated by her relations to one of the most corrupt families to have occupied the seat of Peter. Contray to this narrative , the Borgias were hated so much that when Julius the second became Pope he refused to occupy his predessors apartments which had been lavishly decorated by the great artist Pictoricchio and instead moved to a new series of rooms decorated by the great renissance artist Raphael.
Where do you get your information? Lucrezia Borgia was a faithful wife to her husbands, never had an affair with her brother, and, as a faithful daughter, she acquiesced to her father's wishes to further his ambitions. The Borgia history was written by enemies of the family who worked to permanently destroy the Borgia name. None of the the dark rumors were ever provable. Her third marriage began as a purely political move which slowly became a loving relationship with De Estes putting her in charge of all of his estate when he traveled. She was incredibly intelligent and proved to be a trustworthy partner to him.
....syphilis was not brought to Europe from the Americas. It existed in all countries as a milder disease but was mutated to the virulent mutations that were documented in the late 15th century. Even Egypt has mummies that have syphilitic pock marks on them.
Syphilis was always in Europe, it just mutated around this time to be more contagious and virulent. It just happened to be around the same time of travel to the "New" world which is where the confusion came from
I think if she was being abused by her male family members, it’s likely one of them fathered one or more of her children. Likely the family would be possessive and maybe medaled in her love life. I hope this was just rumours though
she loved her second husband and then he died so tragically, I can understand why the girl had affairs on her third husband, the trauma and trying to never be in love again. Plus he was a cheat as well.
I am a descendant of Lucrezia Borgia via her son, Ercole II d’Este, and eventually her 4x great-grandson, King Victor Amadeus II of Sardinia, on my mother’s side. She is my 15th great-grandmother. ❤️
Fun fact: The actress Brooke Shields is also a descendant of Lucrezia Borgia via her paternal grandmother, Marina Torlonia di Civitella-Cesi, an Italian princess from a minor princely family. 😁
Yes! She had many descendants. Marie Antoinette and Louis 16th were her descendants too
European royalties is her descendant with some exception
That Pope really was your Greatgrandfather They really are just human😶
@@merleharvey4783 True. They are just humans in the end of the day but nevertheless, it is still interesting to learn about your family history. Depending on how far back you can trace your family tree, you can find some interesting historical figures.
But yes, I have Pope Alexander VI and if you count antipopes, I also have Antipope Felix V aka Amadeus VIII, Duke of Savoy, among my ancestors. Pope Alexander VI is one of my 16th great-grandfathers and Antipope Felix V is one of my 17th great-grandfathers.
@@BatkhuuChuluun Do you know your Bible well then📖
I've read several biographies on the borgia family and found Lucrezia to be a tragic figure who was a pawn for the borgia family.
Which ones have u read ? Please let me know I’m very interested
Indeed she was :(
Yes it seems that way
What do you think about the rumours of incest with her father and brother? Given the reputation of the Borgias, I find it to be compelling.
Which biographies do you recommend, if any?
me too . taught to watch her brother torture and kill her much loved dogs. not allowed to flinch. she hated her brothers especially Cesare. they just used her
Would dare agree🙂
I sometimes think a lot of these bloodlines didn’t wither away and are still as powerful and practicing the same insane behaviours there relatives were.
It’s seems these powerful families did everything in their power to retain their “thrones”. I don’t think ever changing societies ever changed the core of that.
That being said I hope not to cross paths with a Borgia 😂
I agree with you
That is what always baffles me the blood line dies with the son but the daughter's/women still carry that blood line and marry into new families but all in all that blood line still carries over. That blood line strongly carries over if they disgustedly practice incest ekkk.. -Mercy(sorry for the name confusion i am on my dad's phone at the moment)
@@richiethev4623 exactly. Victoria is credited with introducing the hemophiliac gene into most of the royal European bloodlines. Through the marriages of her children.
It's interesting that you say that since The Borgia family are the inspiration behind the Godfather movies
Furthermore, a lot of European royals today are descendants of Lucrezia Borgia
I agree, especially given all the affairs the powerful engaged in! I’m sure there are many offspring unknown to such families both then and now.
It was recently discovered that syphilis had been in Europe before Columbus sailed to the Americas. In archaeological team found dozens of monks buried in a monastery who had all died from syphilis before Columbus sailed.
Columbus is a fraud, he got lost down in Central America, Christopher Columbus the fraud ain't discover a damn thang, European people brought north America nothing but lies, white lies thousands of years worth of white European lies,
I've always suspected this but didn't know it was now proved.
I feel bad for Lucrezia. Not only did she have to put up with so much during her life. Britt for centuries after her reputation has been smeared because people did not like her family.
it's so freaking wild that the incest thing was most likely just a rumor someone made up, but in the modern day period pieces treat it as a thing that absolutely totally happened.
It was a rumor. Rodrigo Borgia was the first non-Italian pope and Italy back then was a bunch of city-states vying for power.
Som people still think that Catherine the Great died because she had sex with a horse.
People will believe all sorts of absurd rumors.
@@michaelsinger4638 now I know where a rumor in the show The Great came from.
Yeah, cuz God knows a pope would never do anything disgusting with children, right?
@@thuggkane1661 most period works focus on the alleged incestuous relationship between her and her brother, which is what I was mostly referring to
An interesting fact is that over 50 sovereigns (of which I think 5 are living), can directly trace their line back to her via her children.
The former president of ecuador was one i believe
It's not directly, but I'm related to Lucrezia through her son Ercole II d'Este, and I'm just a regular Norwegian woman. At least I hold no political power or any such.
But I have noticed that if you are related to one noble family or royal family here in Europe, you're most likely related to A LOT of them. Because for a long time they kept marrying each other.
Power lays in the family, a saying goes. I guess somewhere down the line my family lost it's power, cause we're just hard working, honest, lower working class people today. Not that that is a bad thing, but we could use some extra money sometimes, lol.
That's fascinating! Thanks for telling us that.
Great video as always. Quick note that the idea that syphilis was brought from the Americas had been disproven. There are findings from numerous countries from previous eras of remains of individuals with syphilis. In Pompeii I believe there was even a young child that was determined to have had congential syphilis. It is pretty well documented that the disease was present before exploration to the Americas, etc.
Hot damn sir not only did you bring us all great story about an insane family of many past years….those eyes of yours are just beautiful and an added bonus to watching lol !😂😂❤️❤️ Thanks for putting out another awesome video. Happy holidays to you🎄🎄🎄
Thanks very much :)
Eyes? . . . and lips, nose and complexion - sultry. Certainly men and women fall head over heals for this face - so worthy of glossy magazines.
He IS Gorgeous, isn't he??? And the accent! I absolutely LOVE History, especially European History, and his videos are top-notch, Superb!!!☺️
"insane family of past years"
What about those of the present?
So many! 😂
You look like the dreamy heartthrob love interest in an 80's or 90's movie set in an American high school.
I reckon the host of this channel is gorgeous enough to be a male model ! No crap he’s hot as hell ! 💞🥵💞
Please cover some Native American women and men In history
I second that idea. I would really enjoy that.
Any sugestions??
@@ForgottenLives Buffalo Calf Road Woman, who was involved with Custer's last stand.
There isn’t that much interesting Native American history
And if there is then please let me know
Thank you for this exquisite history lesson
Thanks for the support!!
I feel sorry for Lucrezia. With her upbringing and education, she should have been able to do more for her family than just a marriage bargaining chip
Yes you do a grreat historical
The Hypocrisy of Catholicism is astounding.
One rule for them and domination of power to accuse the poor of Sin.
To be the Pope was powerful influence
not a gift to earthly humanity ,
A way to control even Kings.
I love the storytelling and narration. I do have a small grievance about something you said about syphilis. The 15th century outbreak of syphilis from the Americas has been disproven. I did a research paper in nursing school about the origin and myths surrounding syphilis. It was around for 200+ years before the major outbreak of 15th century. Carbon dating skeletons found in London dates says it was around in the 11th to 12th centuries.
Anyway I love your work.. its so interesting to learn about people who aren't in the history books.
Yes, it is still widely believed that syphilis was brought over from the New World as a rise in cases corresponded to the first voyages to return from there
It would only have made further sense to the people of the time given the lack of medical expertise, the fact that the outbreak of smallpox in the Americas that devastated the native populations there was directly a result of contact between settlers and tribes, and whether or not they understood that it was lack of immunity to the disease which the Europeans possessed, that was the cause of the epidemic, or just realised that their arrival was immediately followed by mass infection, it was clear that something to do with the two cultures intermingling was causing this deadly disease
Therefore it would have been logical to assume that transmission of disease worked both ways as well, when large numbers of people starting showing symptoms shortly after the return of the first colonists from North and South America
I personally think, as you say, that the disease was around way before then; it is thought that it may have been misdiagnosed as leprosy, but whatever the case the timeframe you mention for the first instances of syphilis (11th - 12th centuries) corresponds exactly with Genghis Khan's massive expansion out from the Mongolian steppes and the swift conquering of vast tracts of land and subjugation of neighbouring empires that made the Mongols so feared; they were not only highly effective warriors and conquered at a speed no-one had ever seen before but they used absolutely brutal tactics such as catapulting plague-ridden victims over the walls of cities to cause a surrender and it is thought this is how the Black Death spread to Europe
So given the similar timeframe it would not be inconceivable to assume that this is how the first cases of syphilis also made their way into Europe
Also,:
It is thought that the Mongols' use of plague-infected corpses as biological warfare and the proximity of their armies and sieges to the silk road, which leads from eastern China straight into Europe, was the vector by which the Black Death first appeared, but it may have brought syphilis as well
This was also the time of the Crusades further bringing Europeans into proximity with Asian peoples
Since it is a sexually transmitted infection, its effects would have been something people tried to hide, and would have been prevalent in brothels; since these could only be frequented by the upper classes and wealthier among society, these noblemen would not have wanted to stain their reputation by it being public knowledge they had contracted it
This may have contributed to the misdiagnosis as leprosy, as mentioned above.
It may also be that contact with the new world, would have resulted in widespread rape of native women, after their men had been slaughtered. This would have been a war crime far away from Europe and easily covered up by the participants. And resulted in a breeding ground for the disease, if the men had carried it over to the new world with them.
It is of course also still possible that syphilis was a sort of reversal of the smallpox situation, a disease that native Americans had immunity to but not Europeans. But, again, If that were the case, then one must ask how they became infected in the first place, if not for widespread rape. Consensual intercourse may have happened, but was likely not the primary vector
Or, it may be a combination of all of the above factors. An interesting yet complex question.
Probably the French
A couple of years ago, archaeologists found two skeletons of children who died when Mount Vesuvius erupted, showing signs of syphilis.
Thanks for sharing another interesting yet weird family. One thing I will say. I'm so glad I'm not of Royal nobility. So many had the oddest behavior. If they didn't like you, you could be killed. This one takes the cake. It's beyond weird.no movie or book could do her or her family justice. True it's fascinating. To keep remarrying and having all those children, who knows how many lovers. It's not surprising she didn't live past 40. Maybe her brother just wanted to keep her safe. If they did engage in explicit relationship and unless she gave birth to some children with health problems. One would never know
.I love my life just fine.would never want my husband chosen for me. I love hearing these stories. But so glad I live in this era. As crazy as it is. I'm ok.👍💯❤🙂✌🧘♀️🙌. Love,respect, and positivity always. Neita james.🙂👋.
Jean Plaidy wrote incredibly well researched historical 'novels' including ones about the Borgias. I learned a lot of European history reading her books. Worth a search.
I also loved Jean Plaidy's book.
The Borgia Familia was very interesting. Some say Lucretia like Elizabeth Bathroy were monsters but they were also powerful women. This time period and even today powerful women are seen as ......, while men are not scrutinized. Is quite sad this still happens now, but things are getting better. From what I've read even Marie Antoinette was blamed for many things that she didn't do. Also, I'm sure that Lucretia was no angel, but probably had to do things that kept her ahead of the game during that misogynistic time period in history.
Most historians view Lucrezia more sympathetically as a pawn. She was loved in Ferrara and deeply mourned after her death. Those rumors of murder which she allegedly involved & incest have no historical proof. I doubt she is a monster.
Lets not forget, propaganda is nothing new, and then as well as now women has been scrutinized more than men. I guess if someone wanted the Borgia family to look bad it was easier to blame Lucrezia for a lot of things than her powerful father or brother.
i've recently read a manwha (korean comic) that is loosely based on her story. i kept hearing things that sounded familiar during the video so i double checked and the family name of the main character is literally borgia, her family has a lot of influence in the church and she's been married 3 times 😭 i had no idea she was a real person, it kinda hits deeper
Lucrezia was treated like every other high-born, noble girl and including princesses. The way the popes operated is literally the reason why we separate church and state today. I’ve always seen the kings and queens as figureheads. The pope was running the most of Europe. He crowned and uncrowned kings, sanctioned wars and if you disobeyed the slightest, he sent his “Papal” army to kick your butt. I kind of felt sorry for Lucretzia, some of her marriages were atrocious, but at the same time I wondered why their father never forced Cesare to marry. The Borgia pope acted like a king and treated his kids as princes and princesses. Religion has always been a scam.
Nah, the Pope couldn't do shit military speaking outside of Italy.
@@fandemusique4693 The papal army wasn’t the most powerful and certainly not the most long lived, but it did fight with Rome and some other small territories and did very well under Caesare Borgia as general.The pope didn’t need an army outside of the Vatican and Italy proper, I agree. More to protect him at home. His influence and the inherent power is what made the pope, “the man.” HenryVIII created his own darn church that he headed, now overseen by Elizabeth II, because the pope wouldn’t “let” him divorce, dispose and decapitate his wives on demand.
@@LotsofLisa my point is than the Pope "ruling most of Europe" idea is a farce.
Related to this, you should do a video on Caterina Sforza.
@@--enyo-- Great idea. The Borgias and others did her pretty bad.
Thank you for putting a spotlight on people's lives which we probably would've never heard of, if not for this channel. When I look at old paintings of cityscapes and landscapes and find some people painted there, I always wonder, what kind of lives they had. They may be nameless and faceless now, but they had a name and a face, a job, a family, and a life. I'm so curious to know about them.
OMG. You’ve got to watch “The Borgias” I believe it was on Showtime, but I know it’s on Netflix.
I feel the same way, and wonder about all the same things. My curiosity leads me on all kinds of paths, which often seem like wild goose chases as there is no way of knowing everything that interests me. This channel helps.
Awesome post. Simply said, me too. Cheers.
As much as I love this channel, the Borgias have been covered by numerous history related TH-cam channels. They’re pretty infamous
@@LotsofLisa lol, I was coming to tell them the same thing, I might go watch it again myself.
Justo lo que necesitaba. Me encanta escuchar tus videos mientras trabajo.
Me da mucho gusto, gracias:)
Yes they say a poison was the go to weapon for women of that time. Also during the Victorian and Edwardian time periods also.
It still is I believe. Most women can’t stomach “messy” murder and lack the physical strength when trying to (strangle, stab etc.) kill a man. I notice women also use coercion of others, like lovers or even their kids, although that’s pretty rare. Even when women choose to use guns they usually wait until the man is vulnerable, like sleeping or facing the other way.
Aqua Tofana!
@@LotsofLisa can see a study… or is this your unsubstantiated opinion
@@LotsofLisa i don't think this that women can't stomach but that women are more calculated and working to ensure that their murder is successful. I think men, like in most things, are given more to emotion led murders often working out of high doses of adrenaline and thus with a lower IQ during the murder...physically more prone. I would absolutely love for someone to compile the data and like studies to see which point of view more closely mimics the sciences. I find your point of view equally interesting 🤔 all i have done is casually study murder and like speaking from my perception of male lead murder, female murder in couples and then like solo woman murder. That shapes my pov.
@@ithoughtiwouldbeunderstood7050 I would love to see studies on the matter.
Very, very interesting. All the intrigue and obvious hard work and so much research that has gone into making these documentaries. They are fascinating!
Awesome work and narration as always,keep up the great work :)
Thanks very much!!
Arguably, Italian history is the most relatable, exciting and shocking of all European histories with its bloodiness, scheming, shifting alliances, papal politics, screaming ambition, even between family members _ so that fratricide, regicide and any murder appeared likely at any given time.
Perhaps even infanticide figures in amid the world's most glamourous people set in the most ostentatious quarters - a paparazzi dreamscape - a journalists muse.
Captain Edmond Blackadder : It is a cunning plan, with one Tiny flaw, you are the worlds worst cook .
Private Baldrick : Oh yeah.
Blackadder : If you were to cook for the General staff you would be arrested for the greatest mass poisoning since Lucrezia Borgia invited 500 of her closest friends around for a wine and anthrax party.
Hello fellow BlackAdder fan! Such a great series,with such wonderful British humor! You have to catch it fast though!
Lol
Your videos and your calm voice are quite relaxing to watch. Keep up the great work! All the best with your channel! :)
Thanks 👊
hes not to hard on the eyes either. lol
Hello FLives! So happy for a new video from you! Always a great story to listen to. In advance, thank you for your great job. Good night
Thanks for listening :)
@@ForgottenLives
Always a pleasure. Thank you!
Looking foward it 😁
"won the pope contest"... They rock-paper-sizzor for it or was it a raffle?
"Showed up dead"... interesting phrase.
How are women be less likely to catch syphilis?
Lucrezia Borgia was similar to today's famous house of the Hollywierd Kardashian's who get away with what ever, but if they run out of cash, the ones they call friends now will tell all kinds of strange things if they do ??? So the moral to the story of Lucretia Borgia is never run out of cash or you could wind up like Amber Heard with out a job.
Update: recent archaeological finds have established that syphilis had been in Europe long before Columbus' voyage to the Americas.
Ref skeletal remains of a monastery in Hull, UK for starters.
I do appreciate your even handed reporting of your research.
Hello, Thank you so much for your fabulous video. Many historians think Lucrezia Borgia was much maligned, and was a pawn in her father's devious and murderous machinations, with which I agree. Her Father was a power-mad tyrant and prolific fornicator, perhaps even with his poor, beautiful daughter! He was debauched, dissolute and a megalomaniac. Xxxx
Hi there! I've never actually seen you before. Right handsome young man😉 Not being creepy. I've got grandsons your age lol. Think I told Mort that once too. I watched the series on this family. They never actually finished it sadly. It was pretty hard core tho. More so even than the Tudors. Imho. One hell of a nasty mess that was. But that's the Catholic way haha. They've never stopped with the scandalous shite. Thank you for doing this. It was well thought out and gave a bit more closure to that circus. Hope you and yours are being safe and have great holidays!🕊️🎄🤘
If you are a history nerd and you have yet to see the 2 different Borgia series pleeaaase do. They are favs of mine❤
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year
your eyes match your shırt exactly.
In English, it's pronounced Lu-cree'-sha.
I always enjoy your videos! The stories you tell are very interesting. You are very handsome and have a wonderful voice for narrating 😉
Gracias por tus vídeos. Haces un buen trabajo 😊
Just a small Note, We now know syphilis was not brought by by Europeans from from the new world.. Scientists have found Roman Remains with standard syphiletic markers, making the disease in Europe much older than previously thought. As such, most people did not live long enough at that time for their bones to display these Syphiletic markers We are accustomed to seeing today.
I had heard of this before, however not in this detail. Thank you very much for this informative video.
My pleasure, thanks for the support:)
Thank you very much. Much of what I know about Lucrezia comes from the TV series "The Borgias" and from Donizetti's opera "Lucrezia Borgia".
Conspiracy theory means explanation and defense of a position that a conspiracy occurred. Conspiracy theories are most of history and law.
One she wasn't a monster, her dad the pope had her married for gain and when the time drew off he had his oldest son kill them but dear old dad got his and brother too.
Such a fascinating story!
Thank you for this video😊
Glad you enjoyed it!
So excited about this one!
Good afternoon ☺️ and thank-you 🥰
Hope you enjoyed!
So cute
Can you please do Caterina Sforza? I love your videos, I feel like you could do her a massive justice.
Will look into her!
It used to be thought syphilis came from América but recently bodies with it that were buried before ever going to the eméticos have been found.
Say what you want about Pope Alexander VI . He was definitely immoral by having children while being a Priest etc. but he really did adore his children and was a doting father.
We can objectively say At least Alexander vi was a Catholic, unlike the current Pontiff on st Peter's throne.....
She was a plan as were all woman of that time. The question were she in agreement ?
Oh my..
He is absolutely, delicious! 😋
Love this ! Was jus looking for a video on Lucretizia,, please do Cesare and Juan next !
you are a beautiful man
What is this gay day
I think hes chosen
how did they get their hair like that?
They were good and used to pain
Many of her descendents are alive today
I've always been interested in the lives of the Borgia family. Thank you for this amazing video! ❤️ from Singapore 😊
thr renaissance period was so rich in history and in mystery
Unbelievable how early Popes behaved
> EARLY <
What makes you think they have changed any just a better team to cover up
Have you seen the latest one. !!!!!
I adore your narration. This family is so interesting to me. I always get a sense of traveling back in time with your detailed work. Thank you 📖.
About like the modern politics
Bloody hell, I love learning about history and you add in that you're stunningly beautiful and you can assume you have a new follower.
Yaaay ur back 🤩
If women and children are as important as stated verbally, there would have never been a such thing as incest anywhere at any time. This kind of stuff then is why we have things like polygamy now. Child protective services needs to be just as focused as cia or fbi is on the wanted & the only definition of a standby should be the person who was stranding by saw that and stopped it. She was pretty much raped to death, she died from birthing a kid that was probably her dads or brothers. Nobody should be making movies like it was sexy. Ugh, like people rooting for Freddy Kruger (a dude who raped killed and took apart children), there is nothing normal about that.
There's really no need to lie about rich people to demonstrate how evil they are. The true stories of their actions are quite bad enough.
A Borgia Christmas, yes!
I ALWAYSwait with anticipation for your great videos! Packed with immense knowledge and such class!
Love I am fascinated by 15th century Italian politics (BIG Dante fan). Thank you, handsome!
Thanks:)
She also was in charge of Spoleto, a city in extreme stress over a neighbor city treating them cruelly. Water rights or trade hangups, anyway, when she was in charge she made a diplomatic peace for her city.
Secondly ... Syphilis is not from America, research has proven.
Thanks, she deserves objective treatment ...
I remembered that the Borgias had connections to the Pope, and I also believe one of them (the César Borgia who was Lucrezia’s brother?) had inspired the political ramblings of Niccolo Machiavelli. His idea of the ideal Prince was shaped on one of the Borgias. I read this in H.G. Wells’ “Outline of History,” in his chapter on the Renaissance (the chapter numbers vary based on which edition you read).
I think Cesare only inspired chapter 7 of The Prince. The rest of the book is mostly about the Medici Pope Leo. If I remember my AP History correctly, Cesare was supposed to be an example of how having a title only (with no ancestral lands) would eventually be his downfall. I also think Cesare & Rodrigo were both keenly aware of this. Which is why they were so desperate to establish him as a ruler ANYWHERE. The "Duke Valentino" title was a courtesy bestowed by the French King ... But he could not, rightfully, bestow the lands of the Romagna, on him. If Rodrigo had lived a bit longer I think Cesare would have been a force to be reckoned with.
Rodrigo did become pope
Makes me want to play Assassin’s Creed 2 again ☺️🕹
How does this channel not have 1m subs
I always enjoy watching his new videos I even rewatch his videos
She's one of my historical "heroes". Adaptable in a very man's world.
that's bad
The Borgias weren't all reprobates. They did produce
one saint, St. John Borgia.
If he had stayed a layman he
would've been extremely wealthy and powerful. But he
gave everything up and became
a Franciscan.
You make great videos, I have just found you today and already have watched as many as 10 I think 😀. However, there's one misconception here, which, as a microbiologist, I feel urge to explain. Syphilis was not brought to Europe from Natives in America after Columbus had come. There are studies which are only recent, that shows syphilis was ancient European illness and that it was also present in England in XIII century.
I was tricked by the thumbnail: there you can see the painting "Judith slays Holofernes" by Artemisia Gentileschi.
Thank you again for your very thorough biography. You make them so interesting.
Saying people brought syphilis back from the Americas is largely thought to be untrue now. A child's body found in a village close to Pompei, from the time of the disaster, shows clear signs of syphilis. Debunking your fact.
I have done all I can (on my own) to follow Lucretia Borgia. I THINK I found a strand to Marie DeGuise?
Its crazy just thinking back then having more than 4 kids was your duty. I have 1 and had 5 miscarriages in my 20s I probably would have been dead already.
That's a strange picture of Ms. Borgia. Why the partial nude? Interesting. I like your channel and the history you profile.
What a family!so warm and caring☺️so long as you agreed with them🤫and never say no,loved it,and the gorgeous illustrations, definitely add to it, thankyou👍
She was just p.o.- ed she couldn't marry her bro! I kid! Thanks for the interesting stories and unique lives!
My feeling is that Lucrezia was more sinned against than sinner.
There is another lady, Olimpia Maidalchini, who would be worthy of your attention. She was lampooned as being olim pia -formerly pious.
Nothing changes. Woman of rank are always vilified and treated as dangerous . The truth is that most woman of Lucrezias class , were mere pawns of the ambitions of the powerful men around her. A woman of intelligence and beauty was most often treated with suspicion . Lucrezias notoriety was complicated by her relations to one of the most corrupt families to have occupied the seat of Peter. Contray to this narrative , the Borgias were hated so much that when Julius the second became Pope he refused to occupy his predessors apartments which had been lavishly decorated by the great artist Pictoricchio and instead moved to a new series of rooms decorated by the great renissance artist Raphael.
There is a Beautiful Opera called “Lucrezia Borgia” by the opera giant Donizetti. It’s a timeless work of art worth mentioning I believe ❤
Where do you get your information? Lucrezia Borgia was a faithful wife to her husbands, never had an affair with her brother, and, as a faithful daughter, she acquiesced to her father's wishes to further his ambitions. The Borgia history was written by enemies of the family who worked to permanently destroy the Borgia name. None of the the dark rumors were ever provable. Her third marriage began as a purely political move which slowly became a loving relationship with De Estes putting her in charge of all of his estate when he traveled. She was incredibly intelligent and proved to be a trustworthy partner to him.
I was thinking yesterday to ask if you’d cover Lucrezia Borgia! It’s my lucky day. ✨
....syphilis was not brought to Europe from the Americas. It existed in all countries as a milder disease but was mutated to the virulent mutations that were documented in the late 15th century. Even Egypt has mummies that have syphilitic pock marks on them.
Syphilis was always in Europe, it just mutated around this time to be more contagious and virulent. It just happened to be around the same time of travel to the "New" world which is where the confusion came from
Thank you for the pronunciation . I grew up hearing her name pronounced " lucritia "?
Wow. No idea. Thanks
Until very recent times, the average papacy last one year. When I say "lasted," I mean that was how long the Pope survived after being elected.
I think if she was being abused by her male family members, it’s likely one of them fathered one or more of her children. Likely the family would be possessive and maybe medaled in her love life.
I hope this was just rumours though
it´s natural for most humans to have children. That´s why I don´t like the current roman-catholic church ...
she loved her second husband and then he died so tragically, I can understand why the girl had affairs on her third husband, the trauma and trying to never be in love again. Plus he was a cheat as well.
I Have Always Been Fascinated By Lucrezia, Thank You So Much For This Video!! ✨