Analog vs Digital, VINYL vs. CD - bitPERFECT with Andrew Robinson EP02
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ส.ค. 2024
- Analog vs Digital, VINYL vs. CD - bitPERFECT with Andrew Robinson EP02
WARNING: This video may cause some audiophiles to combust. I want to have an honest discussion about the analog vs digital debate, and is it possible it's all in our minds?
NOTE, 8/14/19 - Just after recording this video I noticed that one of my TIDAL settings had changed (likely due to an update) and I did not catch it before publishing this video. All things considered, even TIDAL "HiFi" quality had little difference between it and CD, and conversely vinyl. It should also be noted, that for a lot of people the "difference" in formats might be little more than a change in SPL. For example, through the Technics SL-G700 SACD/CD/Media Player, physical CDs had (on average) a +7-10dB increase over streaming (in any format). It's an even greater difference between CD and vinyl. Match the SPL levels and things become EVEN MORE MURKY. We will be discussing Hi-Res or MASTER quality audio in a future video. Thanks for watching, apologize for any potential confusion.
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INSTAGRAM: bit.ly/AndRobIG
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FTC: This video is not sponsored. Some links above are affiliate, meaning we make a small percentage if you buy through the link but it won't change the price for you! Thank you for helping to support the channel.
#vinylrecords #digitalmusic #streamingmusic
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ADDITION: Just after recording this video I noticed that one of my TIDAL settings had changed (due to an update) and I did not catch it before recording this video. All things considered, even TIDAL HiFi quality had little difference between it and CD, and conversely vinyl. It should also be noted, that for a lot of people the "difference" in formats might be little more than a change in SPL. For example, through the Technics SL-G700 SACD/CD/Media Player, physical CDs had (on average) a +7-10dB increase over streaming (in any format). It's an even greater difference between CD and vinyl. Match the SPL levels and things become EVEN MORE MURKY. We will be discussing Hi-Res or MASTER quality audio in a future video. Thanks for watching, apologize for any potential confusion.
Surprised Tidal did that to you (if you just shot this video), perhaps you haven't updated it in the last month. I got pissed at Tidal down setting the output on up date and sent a note to their tech support about a month ago, and they claim to have fixed it in a very quick turnaround update.
Jeeez, I just checked this computer's tidal... and it has been reset to their lowest quality with the latest update, I guess they musta broke it again, probably on purpose. It's shit like this that makes my quit a company.
Yeah, I'm not sure what happened, if it was TIDAL, or if it was an iOS update or what. It's no big deal, totally first world problems, and I caught it (granted not before this video went live) but it's fixed now, and I'll be more "careful". Hey, something else to discuss in a future video I suppose ;) .
Has happened to me before too. One of the downsides to streaming. You have limited control over what source content is being sent to your system.
Otherwise, fantastic video. Good discussion
Andrew Robinson Any virtual format is limiting. Besides quality (which I find poor to good on most of streaming services) there are other factors limiting their functionality. Speed of data transfer may differ depending on many variables (look what is happening now, during COVID-19 pandemic when most of people spend their time on the internet) resulting in quality loss. Many of the services are limited regarding their data collection. Many artists are available on physical formats alone. I wouldn’t even mention loosing the experience of graphical artwork accompanying physical formats.
For me Vinyl is fun, CD is reliable & Music streaming is convenient.
Yep
👍
Absolutely. I’d add clarity and accuracy to the CD as well.
Kinda for me to. 🙂👍
But for me (vinyl) records have the added bonus of allowing me to listen to (old) recordings that are not or very rarely available on CD nowadays. That's why I do buy only old records, never new which are actually printed out from digital contemporary recordings. For that the CD is the logical choice. 🙂
Vinyl for home and a cd for the car. I like Vinyl. Sometimes a vinyl pressing sounds so go I can’t believe it.. I moved to a new apartment and for whatever reason vinyls records sound amazing. Every room has different acoustics. I didn’t notice the difference until I moved...
CD=Qualty, Vinyl=Nostalgia Streaming=Convenience
A good way to look at it
CD always stood for Convenience Disc to me. They were very convenient. You can skip tracks around just like that with a push of a button and make your own programs and so forth. They never sounded as good as vinyl by any long shot. Vinyl always had something special. One may say Nostalgia. Well perhaps. Brand new records have outsold brand new CDs for the first time in 33 years last year. That's saying something. Ever since the wax cylinder the vinyl record has outlasted and outlived every form of media presenting music on it. So I would not call vinyl Nostalgia once again by any long shot. Streaming is a combination of convenience and quality. I love Spotify. I was playing a CD by Tom Petty the other day and I rarely play CDs anymore. I may play two CDs a year and that's a lot for me these days and I found the Same album on Spotify and I played it and it sounded so much better than the CD. There was a time you could have said CD was quality. And that was when they were just flat-out not making vinyl records anymore and people had no choice but to call compact discs " quality" I got at least 8,000 vinyl records because I love vinyl and collect vinyl and I have about 700 CD's and they just sit there doing what CDs do best and that's collect dust.
You can now stream ar better than CD quality with many companies
Nah. Many people buy new releases on vinyl. Because they are the best form music takes. It's far more rewarding. You just have owned any vinyl.
Morne Coetzee
I agree. Good summary !
CDs have one major advantage at the moment. They are cheap!
CDs also have a longer shelf life when taken care of properly.
And better quality ofc. But it's a preference thing. We all like different things and sounds. But cd's have better quality. Thats just a fact.
@@chriss881000 I agree. I once baby sat for someone years ago when I was still at school. She had some old vinyl plus some cds. The vinyl didn't sound bad but the mix seemed a bit thin, bearing in mind these were original releases in vinyl. I had a cd Walkman at the time, and cds particularly classic albums just come alive more. Since I've had some mini systems, I don't use Walkman anymore, particular mp3 since I'm never impressed with the quality. I enjoy it more on a mini system, I stream music via TH-cam on smartphone, through mixer to mini system most days for convenience but still buy hard copies if there is anything I really like where the price is justified.
Jonn1111 Who says records don’t
Lucas Barletta i do
I personally prefer vinyl for two reasons: the inconvenience and the elevated price level.
That is very funny and very true. 😀
if you actually owned a vinyl collection you wouldn't make that joke
@@fredzep01 Been a BIG vinyl collector for 45 years and still am. A lot of my friends are as well but a) we still try to have a sense of humour and self-irony and b) we know about the vast improvements in later years concerning DA converters in particular. Furthermore, there is the fact that for more than 30 years now 99 pct of all music has been digitally recorded and there is often little to be gained from buying such recordings on vinyl that is mostly badly mastered and pressed on poor quality plastic just because a bunch of millennials have decided for themselves that "vinyls" are cool again and it's worth paying E30+ for an LP you can get in a charity shop on CD for 50c or less.
@@humphreygokart2135 it is all down to the whole manufacturing process why a some cd's can sound better than vinyl an vice versa, but mate i own over 2000 cd's that are worth a £1 a disc, i mainly sold my collection of vinyl that was collected from the early to late 80s i ended up with all the older lads collections because they ended up on a certain class a drugs an sold them to me. wish i kept them all, first issues zep, beatles, an so on. i would end up relenting an got a cd player, only because i couldn't afford a linn lp12 so the next best thing at that time was just like the fella said in the bible when god created all the little creatures, IT WAS GOOD ! .. but there was something missing, a thing i like to call a shine a or natural timbre that you don't get with a digital source. so im on back on the vinyl road. now i can afford better equipment and trust me it is a revelation. i only wish i had that early collection. just for the money alone they would of been worth a lot of doe, an i still wince at the thought of it.
for me, it was always like this: music recorded analogically (60s, 70s, and early 80s) = vinyl.
Digitally recorded music = CD.
Streaming is just pure convenience, Sorry my rusty english. Greetings from Argentina!
I couldn't be more agree with you, that's how it should be, this way You can enjoy both formats
Agreed!
nothing wrong with your English Sir.. Greetings from Liverpool, England 🏴 2-1Italy it’s coming home, hopefully 😁
Vinyls or cds, it makes no difference to me because I record them onto cassettes just to listen to them while driving my 1987 Honda Accord with factory audio
I know this is off topic but how many miles on your 1987 Accord? I love music both analog and digital it is listening to my music that makes me happy.
@@jeffkelly5972 currently 310,800 miles, with no major problems. Only had to replace alternator at 210k miles, fuel pump 278k miles, and last week replaced the factory original clutch with a brand new one and new shifting bushings. Its a really well made car.
And same here, I got collections in both analogue and digital.
@@AIDAHAR210 Great!
8 track for me..in a 1975 Cadillac
hopefully type 2 band Ie Chrome Band and that the recorder has hx Pro and at least Dolby c
I've been a huge audio enthusiast since the 70s. In the 80s I owned the Bang & Olufsen Beogram 8000 turntable. Loved it. It broke after 5 years or so and I went without a 'table until around 2015. In the interim, CDs came out and this whole vinyl vs. CD argument began. All those years I wondered who was right and what was the truth of the matter, but I had no means to test the subject for myself. Around 2015 I purchased a Clearaudio turntable, along with a cartridge and phono preamp. This setup was around $3500, not counting the cost of the rest of my system. As it turns out, around this same time, one of my favorite artists remastered their entire catalog and released it on vinyl, nearly 30 albums in total. Initially I was only going to buy one or two, but ended up buying almost all of them. They sounded great, the best those albums ever sounded. Then, very shortly after this vinyl campaign, they released the same albums to hi-res outlets in digital format. I ended up buying most of those as well.
As it turned out, the hi-res files were, essentially, what they cut the vinyl LPs from. As great as the vinyl sounded, the digital files definitely sounded better to me....and I don't mean for most cases. I mean in every single case. Nearly 30 albums. The hi-res sounded one generation closer to the source vs. the vinyl version. Since then, I've known which side I fall on for this argument.
The whole "tea ceremony" of playing vinyl is.... nice. Really nice. I miss it sometimes.
In the late 1970s I was working as a sound recording engineer, recording pop groups and symphonies onto 24 track 15-ips tape, adding artificial reverb (that's why "soundstage" is such an oxymoron when multiple close-miked recordings are the norm), mixing them down to 2 tracks, and cutting vinyl. Then my studio started getting ready for digital audio, I said, "What's digital??", touched my first personal PC (the Apple ][) and I was hooked into computing. I joined the IT industry as a network engineer, and have been an IT manger with HiFi only as an (expensive) hobby since then.
I threw away all my vinyl in 1985. I hadn't played them in nearly 10 years, having grabbed CD playback as my choice of source since it appeared. The main difference was the lack of turntable rumble, wow, flutter, total silence between tracks and of course ticks and pops. And I find it incredible so many still dare to claim that their super-hard diamond stylus scraping itself over their relatively soft vinyl does the grove no harm!
If I had known there'd be a resurgence of vinyl in the early 21st century I would have kept all the vinyl of course. (And I should have bought Apple stock then as well.... sigh.) Anyway, when RIPs became available I immediately converted all my CDs to 16/44 WAV files - and have them as FLAC now.
With everyone claiming vinyl has that immeasurable "something", I tried vinyl again about 5 years ago. I found the issue identical to what I suspected was the 'improvement' everyone is raving about, and it is this....
Because stylii can jump out of the groove with too much bass, ALL vinyl masters are EQed with a deep bass roll-off and a slight mid-bass hump added (to compensate). Yes. All of them! So while digital masters are equalized "Flat" - identical to the final master (and, so relatively, "thin" sounding) - vinyl is not, was not, and can never be. That extra "something" re the audio? You can do the same with just a simple $5 equalizer.
Nuff said.
A simple question to ask. Why has no vinyl company created a CD off the source signal EQed for vinyl - and released them both. Clearly when you play them back in sync and switch between them they would sound identical, or vinyl will show it's 'superiority'. An easy way to solve this age-old argument right? Well, not so easy. Because even the cartridge affects - to be exact, colours - the sound. As does the RIAA equaliser. So many combinations of things that affect and colour the analogue signal. With digital, the analogue stage starts only after the DAC.
With digital, I know it does not matter if the source is a CD rip, off my USB flash drive, my LAN network access storage, or streamed off an iRadio station. Provided it is a 16/44 original file, my DAC gets the same input every time.
The solution? With digital get 'warmer' sounding loudspeakers with a bass bump and quick roll off.
But you are going to miss out on the visceral bass slam that digital produces effortlessly, which vinyl never can.
What I want is to read about is that someone HAS taken a certified digital master off the signal going into a vinyl cutting head (pre-RIAA), made it available for download to the general public , and had the two sources compared. Remember the whole process to be verified by an independent 3rd party (like a globally recognised major accounting firm). If you have such a pair of releases, I would love to hear how a blind AB test between the two went. And, like all AB tests, listeners must pick whichever is 'better' correctly 66% or more of the time (otherwise it is just a statistical anomaly).
If someone has proof of that, I will be happy to apologise here. I've always wanted to, but not found the opportunity to do such a test! Is such a pair of releases available, a vinyl and a CD, the CD off that final vinyl master?
So in the meantime? Don't fret about vinyl vs digital (of any source). Just enjoy the music (and the ritual, if that's what vinyl also is to you).
Me? I'm more into the "tea" than the tea ceremony". ;-)
It developed systems in the late 70's that would improve vinyl sound. in summary, it can be said that there was noise reduction on a vinyl record and the result could be a full 90 decibel dynamics on a vinyl record
Was not the criticism of the CD sound very harsh in 1985. the players were expensive the sound was considered flat the treble was chilly
@@Andersljungberg Change your loudspeakers to ones which are less harsh, blaming CDs is the weak option. Take a 1980s player and an expensive new one, send their raw digital data to an external DAC, both will sound identical. That CD players have improved is a myth perpetuated by HiFi sales people to keep their cash registers ringing.
@@skris8227 …because their DACs and output stages have improved you muppet. Early players had 14-bit-at-best DACs that were not very good at their job.
Records have gotten FAR too expensive these days, average is like $37 now. You can get a CD of the same album for 1/3rd the price and you can get used CDs in great condition for a couple bucks. Add to that the babying and maintenance involved with records and record players and it becomes even less attractive.
first if you have enough experience you can play records as easy as you play any other format,i work in a radio station i started for 40 years and was a dj for 35 years it gives a lot of experience of playing with perfect conditions any record, but i have to recognise what you say it´s true i have been buying a lot of cds while records i only bought almost 10 in the last 5 years and cds i buy them each month as they appear cheap ,10 or more, it´s kind of an adiction after buying them for what today is 20 to 30 € in mid 80´s, which in this days they were built of a much better and expensier material ,the reason why i only had 7 cds till the early 90´s, having already a good cd player i bought one that was considered one of the best in the world a belt-driven from CEC ,today is still sold but the price that they ask today i didnt pay a 5th of that price in mid 90´s
My opinion is that:
1.) CD is potentially the best format - wider dynamic range, better frequency response, better signal to noise ratio, lack of wear. etc. For me, the problem arises within the mixing/mastering processes that are utilized.
2.) LP's required both the low bass and higher treble frequencies to be rolled off during the recording process (to keep the LP from needing to be 3 feet in diameter, and for the stylus to be able to maintain contact with the record groove). The frequencies were then restored during playback (RIAA curve). How can you be certain that nothing was lost during the RIAA conversions?
3.) LP's "sound" is actually the result of the inaccuracies of the medium. Some people prefer this sound.
4.) My question to those who believe that vinyl is better than CD because CD has "only" 44.1 thousand samples of music per second and must therefore be missing something - how are movies able to convey a realistic representation of what has been filmed with only 24 samples per second (or 24 frames per second)? Surely they are missing tremendous amounts of important material.
5.) My belief is that the resurgence in vinyl is due to the fact that it was "discovered" by people who had previously experienced music only via 196 kbps mp3's. I believe that the LP will always emerge victorious in such a comparison.
Having said all that, I have purchased CD's of albums that I owned in LP format. Many of them are abysmal. However, purchasing a remastered version of the CD usually resulted in a much better (to me) version of the recording than the LP counterpart. Finally, I have ripped all my CD's (and converted the LP's when they had the better sound) to 320 kbps mp3's for car listening and FLAC for home listening. I am able to store all of my music collection on a flash drive that is literally smaller than my thumb - with room left over.
I believe, as you have stated many times, that the only factor that is important is that you enjoy your music and system. Listen for your enjoyment, not for the enjoyment of others.
For years I couldn't understand the vinyl resurgence because I was convinced that CDs were perfect because I was brought up in a house full of cassette tapes and the quality jump when I finally switched the CDs was huge. I had some vinyl that I'd picked up over the years and continued to do so but it was mainly stuff handed down to me by parents and family. It was only a few years ago that I came around to vinyl and started buying mainly that format. As much as it can be a measurable thing as to which sounds better I think an overall opinion can come down to emotional factors as well. For example, I have Dark side of the moon on CD, digital and a vinyl copy given to me by my favorite uncle. I enjoy listening to it on my phone or on CD but for me its more of an experience to put on my (second pressing) vinyl copy. I don't know why but I feel like it draws me in to the music more than the other formats. However, I also own Green Day's Dookie on all 3 formats and feel like I enjoy listening to the CD more because of remembering what was going on in my life when I bought it. Basically I think CDs are probably measurably better but in the end its an emotion thing. That said, I will ALWAYS pick a physical copy over streaming or downloading.
CD has the better quality, vinyl adds surface noise to a recording, a distortion, this is what people confuse for ‘sparkle’ or ‘depth’. With age this becomes even more noticeable. I’d take a CD any day over vinyl.
For me, CDs are the perfect medium between LP and streaming.
It's a physical audio format, with artwork and a disc you can hold, interact in a tactile way, and display on a shelf (with a smaller footprint and more easily readable spines than LPs). But also come with the mathematically perfect reproduction of audio without me having to worry about a disruption in the looooong chain of variables for vinyl listening degrading the sound in some way. CD listening is low maintenance, which is good for a poor 20-something.
A CD in a disc tray means it commands my attention for a whole album, and I'm not tempted to skip around to whatever other songs or artists strike me, like streaming. And on the flip side, no need to flip a CD, unless it's a particularly long album and it requires a second disc, but oftentimes a CD can hold an entire double LP (Passion by Peter Gabriel, Derek and the Dominoes, Fleetwood Mac's Tusk).
So there's the appeal for me, in so many words.
I don't understand why this is still being discussed. CDs are without a doubt better.
In regards to subjective preferences, converting vinyl to 44.1khz 16bit using quality equipment, and stamping it to a CD, retains said preferences. While you can't even come close to retaining the unique sound signature of a CD (e.g. high fidelity and low noise floor) after converting it to vinyl.
Additionally both the stamping and playback of CDs are bit for bit accurate while vinyl starts with 1000s of imperfections and gets worse every time you play it.
Lastly, it's mathematically proven that you only need 2 samples per frequency to perfectly capture each wave, and nobody can hear above 20 khz, so there's no perceptual difference beyond 40 khz sampling. And when played at 80 dBa or lower nobody can distinguish between 16 or 24 bit+ (the noise floor of 96 dB is too low to detect despite the human limit of 120 dB). All this is confirmed in double blind testing with high end equipment and the most discerning pitch perfect listeners.
In short, CDs can perfectly recreate the sound of any vinyl record on any vinyl player, while vinyl can't even come close to doing the same for CDs. The absolutely only reason some people prefer the sound of vinyl is because they have a positive associate its distortions, but since said distortions can be perfectly recreated by CDs they still have no cause other than delusion and ignorance to believe vinyls sounds better, or even near as good, as CDs.
Amen ! Have you actually listened to vinyl or have you only read pamphlets about the superiority of cd that were already misleading and incorrect 20 years ago ?
@@Paul58069 I'm nearly 50 and listened to tons of vinyl, cassette tapes and other pre-CD formats. And CD is verified to hit the limit of human hearing in double blind testing (except for a max noise floor of 96 dB) and has bit perfect stamping/playback. While vinyl has numerous distortions, imperfect stamping/playback and at best a 70 dB noise floor. Most importantly, high end equipment can capture the sound of the any vinyl record on any player, including the best, and accurately reproduce said sound from a CD. The opposite can't be done (CD to vinyl). I'm not biased, sharing an opinion or was fooled by marketing propaganda. CDs are irrefutably superior to vinyls.
I focus on vinyl that was recorded before music was recorded digitally.
I remember when CDs first came out. They were expensive $17.99 to $21.99. Adjusted for inflation that would be 48.38 to 58.58 in today's money. However, audiophiles loved them, because a cd player back then could cost more than a $1000. The audiophiles would brag about the no hissing, no skipping, no scratches, and how clear they sounded. Many years later, when the common people were able to afford the CD format, they became the hated medium. Fast forward to 2019, now a good vinyl setup can cost as much as a new lowend motorcycle and the audiophiles fall in love with vinyl, because it is expensive. If its cheap it's not audiophile quality. If its expensive it is audiophile quality.
1982 CD 17.99 audiophile quality!
2019 Same CD from thrift store. 25 cents. Not audiophile quality.
Audio Technica LP120 $250 Not audiophile quality.
Technics turntable with the same cartridge as the LP120 $1100
audiophile quality.
Same Technics turntable in 1986 priced at $179. NOT audiophile quality. Because the same turntable cost more in 2020, audiophile quality.
Well said man
It's in the Mastering... I just bought my first Raconteurs LP... and in researching it on Dynamic Range Database, I noticed that the DR for all 3 Raconteurs albums was 5dB on CD, and 10 dB in LP format. This is clearly a choice made by Third Man Records.... to make the CD masters 5 dB louder, and thus more dynamically compressed. Comparing these on a good hifi system, the LPs will certainly sound better, with greater dynamic range. Any listener would determine, with certainty, that vinyl is the better format, when really... your are NOT comparing apples to apples. I have good and bad examples of both LPs and CDs, so it's really very hard to compare. Cutting a record is still a rare art form, and much of that knowledge died away over the last 30 years.
exactly what i just wrote before . Some record labels have people mastering the raw audios for digital format that dont understand nothing of what they are doing .
yeah, the cd format is not the problem, but the mastering (Loudness War) since ca. 1990 (mostly) is !!
I find this argument about digital or vinyl silly . In my opinion the mastering makes more of a difference than the format. The question should be, ( What is mastered better, vinyl or cd ? ).
Great point
Not arguing.....simply stating opinions. It's what makes music and the way it's conveyed, be it vinyl, cd or whatever, so much fun.
I see it this way. I enjoy both.
1. To get close to Cd quality with vinyl you have to spend quite a bit of money. Not willing to go that far. And CD as we all know is very convenient. Simple as that.
2. Vinyl truthfully DOES bring me back to childhood and the whole record buying, opening and listening experience. Examining the cover, reading the lyrics and liner notes, etc... Is that so wrong?
3. I really (re)gained a much greater appreciation for the thought that went into vinyl. What song ends side one? What song begins side two? Artists actually put a LOT of thought into that. And with double albums especially it’s an amazing journey with little pauses along your travels to turn the LP over or change to the second LP in the set. I honestly love that.
4. But the biggest thing for me - what the rediscovery of vinyl has done for me is simply slow me the hell down. I am WAY more engaged with an album than a CD because I have been programmed over the years to skip tracks I don’t feel like listening to. I simply don’t do that with vinyl. I let the whole thing play and it keeps me way more connected to the album as a whole. And for me that’s the whole point, especially in a single-song-downloadable-world.
I love vinyl. Can vinyl accurately capture the signal recorded to it? No. It's a terrible recording system. The effect of the drop in speed as the needle progresses from the start of an LP to the end is enormous and clearly audible, and this alone should be enough to convince anyone that "analogue" doesn't imply a perfect reproduction. But I love vinyl.
I think there might be something psychosomatic and/or psychoacoustic happening; where our brains prefer the less consistent sound over time.
Just like we often prefer inconsistent tempos in songs.
It's not the formats. It's what goes before and after the formats. It's the recording and mastering or remastering. It's the insane amount of variables that go into reproduction. It's the turntable, the tonearm, the cartridge, the stylus, the alignment, the tuning, the equalisation, the pre-amplification. Or the DAC, the clock, the jitter, the pre-amplification.
At the end, I must agree with you. No format is better. But the attention to detail in the reproduction of a given format can make the difference.
agree - the production and re-production has a far bigger impact on if something sounds good or not than what type of media it is put on.
Spot on!
It is true that a virgin vinyl disk can sound great,but a CD sounds that good every time. From the moment that needle crashes down into the tiny, fragile groove, the. Disk wears out. You don’t need a golden ear or test equipment to hear the constant improvement of a CD over a vinyl disk. Vinyl is full of NOISE which ruins the music. Vinyl has become a fad today thanks to nostalgia, not quality.
exactly
I use all three. Streaming is convenient, vinyl is fun, but cds sound cleaner. I have fun and use them all. What bugs me about streaming is the quality is all over the place. Making adjusting constant.
Back in 1980's I had my fill up the pop and ticks and jumped ship to CD's and never looked back. Genesis self titled album bought on Japanese virgin vinyl was my last vinyl copy purchased and even that had problems with the ticks and pops on a good system. A CD mastered correctly could outshine a vinyl record with dynamic range as I have seen where the needle would bounce rarely if they didn't compress it enough. As others have stated most new recordings are done digitally anyways so your listening to a digital recording played on an analog media. To each his own and for me the lack of noise from CD's and the non wear effect (I literally wore our two vinyl copies of Dark Side of The Moon and it was my fist CD purchased) makes it a better choice. And if the engineers would take the time to use the CD to its full extent and stop engineering the music for mp3 and radio streaming we would see how well CD's would shine.
I think you probably nailed what sounds best when the sound engineer knows what they are doing. A cd can sound every bit as good as an analog recording if the engineer has both a good ear and a thorough understanding of his equipment. I like some analog recordings on vinyl but if the sound engineer doesn't have a good feel for how to manipulate the equipment analog isn't necessarily going to be any better. A good analog recording on vinyl has to be really be looked after meticulously or the vinyl can become full of anomaly's that make listening less enjoyable. I like the convenience of cd's that have been properly recorded but listening to a vinyl record still holds a lot of charm for me. That tactile feel of holding the album in your hands and enjoying liner notes, lyrics, and artwork never gets old for me.
I got a Sugarcube to filter out the "pops and ticks" from my LPs. I payed probably too much for it, but it does work like magic.
"A CD mastered correctly. . ." is unfortunately hard to find from the last 25 years or so, at least if we're talking about pop or rock music. In many cases the LP version of the same release will have better dynamic range while the CD is sonically crushed. There's no technical reason for that. The record labels seem to have simply decided to make them that way.
Nothing beats the inconvenience, expense and frustrations which come from collecting vinyl.
can be if you dont know what your doing, but extremely rewarding if you do.
Calling it a battle is like calling a leopard eating a gazelle a battle. 1. A vinyl mix has to be modified from the artist's vision because it physically cannot present the full range of fidelity. For example, if the bass is too loud and and too tight, it will cause the needle to literally jump out of the track. For me, this fact alone is enough to disqualify vinyl. 2. The signal to noise ratio is pathetic on even the best vinyl with the best equipment. If you call yourself an audiophile and are ok with that background noise, you are not an audiophile. You are a poser. And before you respond with err it's not all about measurements man! YOU CAN HEAR THE BACKGROUND NOISE. Sure it's easier to measure but you don't even need to. It's a needle scraping along a platter of plastic. You can't stop it generating noise. 3. The process of playing the record track diminishes the quality of it EVERY time you play it. You are very slowly wearing away the vinyl. Sure it takes a lot of plays for it to become perceptible. So as if it's not bad enough that you aren't even listening to the mix the artist intended but now you have a tonne of background noise and the signal that is there is getting worse every time you play it. Sheesh. Vinyl. No thanks. When vinyl was the best option available, vinyl was fantastic. That time is over.
Yeah. I have agree. How can a device that relies on scratching a needle that's been scratched out too be better than..anything else..
I have CD's that I bought back in the late '80's early 90's. When I play that CD today, it sounds exactly the same as it did the 1st time I played it. The problem I have with vinyl is deterioration, pops, clicks, surface noise. Eventually the vinyl will wear out. They both sound good but the CD will sound good forever.
Mike Omo But in about 30 years your CDs are aged so much that you cant hear them anymore. A record will still be playable
@@georgschuster8895 ? in 30 years there won't be a physical copy, it'll all be digital. All my cd's are already uploaded to my computer.
@@georgschuster8895 I have CDs that are more than 30 years old (mostly classical). My ears have lost some of their range, but the CDs have lost none of their sound. That's right, your ears will go bad first.
@C Burgess I don't have to do any of that. My CDs are all ripped to file.
@C Burgess You can always preserve every bit of what's left of your records by recording them to 32-bit/192000 Hz WAV files. I figure you can do it in less than 7 TB of memory at a cost of under $400. And if you start now, it shouldn't take you more than 3 years.
Let’s be brutally honest. A huge part of the allure of vinyl is the collectors aspect and the ‘sexy’ beauty of the artwork and actual physicality. This adds to the experience that you just don’t get with CD’s.
? CDs are also physical collectibles that come with artwork, usually the same art as the vinyl
@@sleepyskaterzzz yeah but you need a magnifying glass to see it 😂
@@Budd1234 no u dont
No need to choose - imo you can own both formats if the album warrants it.
@@Budd1234 agreed - over 40 yrs old and ya need the optic help lol
More than 30 years ago, I compared vinyl to cd. Vinyl was easily superior. However the test was totally unfair to cd. Sony's 1st gen players simply sounded bad, especially compared to a LP12 with a Grado cartridge. Now that cd players are a fully matured format, I agree with you. Both formats sound good. Some titles I prefer cd, others vinyl. The differences usually come down to which was mastered and mixed better.
Andrew, keep up the great work. This was an excellent video. I'm definitely looking forward to the next in this series
Y. Fung
Vinyl is a romantic approach to audio. The process of setting it up, removing the disc from cover, the action of placing the disc on the turntable, this all makes for the ceremony of a dedicated listening session. But It is mechanical, a needle dragging across vinyl induces wear. The fragility of the grooves and susceptibility of hiss, pops, skips, etc detracts from Hi Fidelity. CD has a broader frequency range, no physical wear over time, no induced noise, hiss, etc. But less of a ceremony, even more so with streaming. It's your listening experience and we have our choice of how we want to fulfill it.
There is definite physical wear to CDs as anyone who has owned a large collection of them knows
In my eyes it's a very simple reality: playing records turns listening to music into a singular, focused act -- akin to a hobby or ritual. The other forms through digital means -- MP3, CD, streaming services) have enabled listening to music to become a truly passive act, thus turning music into a background 'thing'. You could of course still create a similar setup to the vinyl experience by sitting down and streaming an album from start to finish, but it just has a tendency to turn music into a secondary. again 'passive' thing. Streaming services multiply this factor -- whilst I am blown away by a lot of what I discovered while having a Spotify subscription, it has DEFINITIVELY made music more and more throwaway to me. Eventually I started to feel like I was mindlessly consuming music like junk food...it's hard to explain but I'm sure others can relate to this.
Now there is NOTHING wrong with any of the above, but it's for that reason I prefer vinyl... it conditions me to appreciate music as art rather than a throwaway thing.
Growing up with vinyl, I loved the format. The ritual, the graphic art coming with it, its smell. I love the gear needed to play it, its mechanisms, its precision, its beauty design. And I loved its sound. Nevertheless I hated the fact that degrades each time I listen to them and my beloved music won't sound anymore like it was intended to sound. Knowing that more I listen to them further apart from its original sounding state they become.
When CDs became popular at the beginning of the 90s, I switched over. They were way smaller, suddenly I can store way more of them in the same space where I was able to have few LPs, I could transport many of them and play them in the car. Convenience was enormous! But more than anything, its sound never degraded if you take enough care of them. Its sound quality remained the same over time and no matter how many times you listen to them, the next time you play it, it will sound the same. That's the definitive victory over vinyl and tapes!
Streaming? Meh! That's just ambience music for the Dr. office, the supermarket or the coffee shop. You don't own it, you don't care about it, you don't know when is going to disappear. And it sounds worse than your own lossless files.
CD is the best compromise between convenience, invariable sound quality and physical experience. CD is just the best format!
Spot on!
My opinion is that either format can sound stellar when done right, meaning the mastering and transfer from master to the format. So in my opinion it depends on the album, whether I will like the CD or vinyl version. Typically if an album is recorded in the digital realm and transferred to CD or lossless FLAC it will sound about as good as possible. But those albums recorded in the analog realm seem to lose some of their luster when converted to digital. Lastly, a lot of CDs are terrible transfers to the point where you can see the clipping if you look at them in audacity. I recently compared Lee Morgan's "Cornbread" CD version to the new Blue Note Tone Poet pressing and it wasn't even close. The vinyl was better. The horn section sounds clipped on the CD whereas you can hear the individual brass instruments on the vinyl pressing. But this isn't always the case.
This is because digital allows for much more brickwalling/loudness than vinyl does, and unfortunately, many labels are going that route. Digital has higher fidelity capability than vinyl does, but you rarely see this actually utilized. It's a shame...
I have subscribed to you for years, and I never took the time to comment. I am a vinyl dude, but not because it is better. Every format plays a role. But saying that, when you have a vinyl record in your hands, does not mean that is as far as vinyl can go. You just happen to have that version recorded at that particular label record company, pressed at that particular facility, and so on.
For instance, if you provide a good record master company with the original master files and request a vinyl version of the product, you might be very surprised.
But that is just referring to the quality of the musical format. The format's physical properties represent another aspect you must consider. As a vinyl guy, I can't remember when I last carried my turntable to the gym, for example. When I drive to the gym, my entire vinyl collection becomes irrelevant. But I also know that the entire DSD file database I am carrying to the gym to play on my very cool digital player has zero value to me, and it represents zero physical attachment. It is all backed up at home somewhere, and those files are meaningless as long as I know they are backed up somewhere.
I can have 30,000 digital files or stream endlessly through any of the streaming media. But I can't collect any of that. On the other hand, when I run out of space for my vinyl collection, I am facing a major problem, not to mention I can't have a 30000 vinyl record in my house. The other formats don't have that problem, even CDs. When getting to the point of too many, just rip them, back them up, and now store them wherever you want.
But no other format has the strong attachment to their users as vinyl has. The vinyl community is very passionate about the entire process, from the recording to the studio, the mastering, the pressing, the presentation, and the artwork. And it goes beyond that. Vinyl is a musical format that is also a collectible item and that, on its own, is an encyclopedia of information to speak about.
Comparing musical formats the same way we compare ice cream flavors is probably wrong. It all goes beyond the sound quality. Each format plays a different role. This is getting long, but you get the point.
cds are cleaner and clearer sounding. I’m pretty sure the whole vinyl sounding better is a myth cds are more reliable, inexpensive and better sounding than both vinyl and streamed music.
My Dad was an audiophile, got me into the hobby.... He had a collection of over 200 LP's that he had collected through the years, in the late 80's, he went full into CD... The whole LP trend over the last 10 years is simply nostalgia, but they do have good sounding LP's. But CD's are better
@@thomasward00 and there’s nothing wrong with vinyl it’s just in question cds are better.
This is literally the first time I have ever commented on a video so hopefully this speaks to how much thought I have given to this subject. Here is my take; music is art and much like any other form of art, I don’t believe in good, better best. The most important thing about art is how it makes you feel. Comparing CD’s to Vinyl is like saying an acrylic painting is better than watercolor piece or like saying a clay sculpture is better than a marble work. There is no right or wrong, there is only the question of wether the art solicits an emotion. Just because someone likes abstract art, it does not take anything away from realism.
I like listening to the same album in different formats, through speakers or headphones BECAUSE it sounds different. It's like a slightly different flavour to the music.
but realism is what we want to achieve, hope your commenting more, but if you are by now you can probably tell the comment section can be like banging your head against a brick wall, ha ha.
I grew up and collected vinyl. I transitioned to CD when it was released. I toyed with streaming but never treated it seriously for serious listening (I've yet to listen to Spotify). I still buy music, and I almost always buy it on CD. I've also reinvested in a turntable and new and vintage vinyl to bring back that analog sound that I missed. I LOVE the sound of analog. But I also love CDs. If I had to have only one format, it'd be CD because while I enjoy some albums on vinyl a little better, the longevity and durability and ease of use of CDs is undeniably so far ahead of vinyl that it makes those subtle audio differences moot.
CD/Digital all day and twice on Sunday. Tighter bass and better clarity is way more important to me than cracks and pops
CD: has better audio quality, lasts longer, better dynamic range, doesn't wear over time, doesn't scratch, doesn't warp, doesn't get dust, it is cheaper to purchase.
Vinyl: has a unique sound that some people prefer when mastered correctly on a good record player.
CDs are the winner in my eyes because I just want something that plays great and lasts a long time. I don't want to worry about dust or warping or skipping or any of that stuff.
CDs don’t scratch? If that’s true then why do they sell CD buffers?
@@GothJedicds Are the best format dude they match dvds bluray movies
Cds do not have more dynamic range. Files for cd are sent through a brickwall limiter reducing dynamic range and increasing RMS. This is taken off on files used for vinyl masters. This is typically why vinyl sounds more dynamic and realistic.
Please stop spreading incorrect information.
CDs are certainly cleaner than vinyl and a much lower noise floor. Whether they sound better depends on how they are mastered. If the recording source is pure analog, I think vinyl sounds better. If the recording is 100% digital CDs sound better. This is my opinion and others may not agree.🙂
i like cd’s because it still has the aesthetic and enjoyable process of holding your music but is way more convenient and easy to handle than vinyl. also a lot of cars have cd players so it’s always fun to take your cd collection to road trips
And you can buy CD's for a fraction of the price of vinyl
Bluetooth from your phone is great too. I do both cds and Bluetooth in my car.
@@Darrylizer1 i use bluetooth when i’m alone but when i’m with more than 2 people in a car it’s annoying to disconnect one phone and connect another and also for some reason i like going through my cds to find the next song to play
Vinyl is unfortunately at the mercy of the equipment you play it on, CD's have a broader range of "acceptable' gear delivering much the same output across the board, unlike analog.
For the record, I prefer vinyl ;)
Yes exactly - vinyl records sound great on really high end gear, but CDs sound pretty good on even cheap players. At the high end the differences are, in my opinion, a matter of taste. But at the low end, CDs just blow everything else away.
@@AndyBHome I don't think you need "High End Gear" to do vinyl justice, but it should be more than a Crosley or LP60 with powered speakers. Not saying there is anything wrong with those options, but you should climb a little up that ladder to get more out of your vinyl. That being said, you can put together a really nice analog system at a reasonable price if you do a little homework. In the end, vinyl is more work, and people tend to want fast and simple now a days. I could be showing my age a bit, I'm knocking on 55, but if you want to truly hear what the artist intended, especially on anything before 1990, go vinyl. But hey, to each his own, enjoy your music how you want or can afford ;)
@@perfectstack-music I wholely agree. And when I say high end for vinyl, I mean what used to be considered high end when vinyl was at it's peak around 1980. In those days a "really good system" was a $300 turntable with a $100 cartridge, plus receiver/amp and speakers. Now it's STILL possible to get a pretty nice turntable for only about $300! There fact that the high end got a little out of control is interesting but not super relevant to the comparison in my mind. I'm still comparing turntables and cartridges costing a few hundred to CD players costing about the same, or usually/probably a fair bit less. I love CD, but vinyl records really do retain their charm for me, and with just a few hundred dollars worth of equipment they sound just as good as CDs do, at least to my ear. I'm using a Dual 701 and a Grado Black cartridge that cost me $100 used, 30 years ago. The stylus has been replaced but everything else is the same as it was when I bought it, and it plays beautifully. Sadly my first two CD players have both completely quit so now I'm using a cheap Sony 5 disc DVD player as my CD source. Honestly it sounds as good as my "better" Technics CD player did. I stream most of my everyday music from a Chromecast audio puck now anyway, and again, honestly it's hard to tell the difference between that and CD.
I have got back into vinyl the last couple of years (after a 25 year hiatus, getting rid of my vinyl collection and going to only cd's). This time around I have a higher end quality built turntable and added a graphic equalizer to my audio system. I have been so enjoying music again through vinyl ! I have rebuilt my vinyl collection and must say that the analogue production of records from the '60's through to the early '90's just sound so much better overall than what is issued today. My ears find that most records pressed today sound much like the compression sound of cd's.
I agree! Vinyl today is 100x better than the stuff I bought in the 70's and 80's.
Most people can’t tell the difference. Sound quality isn’t really all that important to be honest. Music is all about your emotional response
I totally agree with the latter part of your statement 100%. Our feelings for the music are the most important. Thanks for watching!
Vinyl vs. CD. vs. Streaming is to audio as Fireplace vs. Radiant Heating vs. Central Forced Air is to heating.
Vinyl like fire is warm, somewhat primal. It invites you to sit with it, look at the liner notes in the 12"x12" format. Much like a fireplace, it's something you do to set a mood more than it might be to find a means to solving a problem. Depending on how you are wielding the fire, it can be very inefficient or extremely efficient. A cheap turntable with a cheap cartridge and poor records are going to yield a bad sound. A basic fireplace with poor circulation and wet kindling is going to make a poor smoky fire. An expensive turntable with a high quality cartridge and records in excellent condition are going to yield an excellent sound. An expensive modern wood burning stove with excellent placement/ventilation and excellent kindling is going to be a very good way of heating your home and setting a mood. In every case, a fire requires you to tend to it. So do vinyls. The analogies continue, relatively self explanatory I hope.
So for me, Vinyl is less about "what sounds better" and more about what mood am I setting. Do I want convenience listening to a compressed digital recording, understanding that I'm getting a 72ppi image of a work of art? Do I want to really dig in and go all "Rick Beato" on a recording (as I often do) with a .WAV or .AIFF file, (multi-track lossless even better), where I could hear the bass player tapping their foot (Zeppelin) Where I can hear someone giving a vocal queue. Where I could hear a squeak in the beater hinge of a kick drum (Funk Power 1970), where I can hear the bleed of a previous take on the tape (Sir Duke). Where I can really listen to how the stereo imaging was done and dissect so many things to my hearts content as though I'm hearing something for the first time (OR) Do I want to dim the lights, look at the glow of my Marantz 2235B coupled with my Kenwood KD-550 sit back and simply appreciate something or provide that mood for guests coming over to dinner. A record sets a mood like streaming really cant. There's something about knowing it's a record that means something. Sometimes a warn record is like a warn hat or your favorite shirt. Sure your wife wishes you'd just throw the damned thing away but there's something about it that makes you happy. There's something about vinyl that says "I respect these artists enough to own them and put in the extra time it takes to actually get up off my ass and flip the damned tire."
The ubiquity of 5G will allow for higher and higher quality audio formats to be streamed, which is hopefully good news for people who love lossless formats, like me with have a bunch of scratched CDs. I'll still love Vinyl. I'll still love thumbing through albums at the local record store and looking at the 12"x12" artwork.
Not really the right test. Isn’t that album digitally recorded and mastered?
You’d have to compare vintage vinyl pressings to get the true analog experience
exactly
I mean, it kinda is the right test since most everything released on vinyl nowadays was recorded digitally, and if it wasn't, it was digitally remastered before being pressed to vinyl. I say this as someone who loves vinyl: the SQ difference between vinyl and CD for contemporary releases is minimal. The vinyl press might be a smidge softer so your needle doesn't explode, but that's about it.
CD's sound alot better as long as they have not been victims of the loudness war Dynamic Range Compression.
Thats a myth. You can't use a cheap turntable cartridge or phono stage and expect great sound. It costs a little bit extra.
I’ve recently realized at least on my player that cds sound a lot different than streamed music. It’s a tad bit louder than streamed music even at the exact same volume and clearer too. I’ve never heard vinyl but I do know that cds are more reliable and cheaper than vinyl and better sounding than streamed music.
Its mastering that counts most, rather than format.
As a trained sound engineer, I know Cd is better than vinyl. I just happen to like the experience of holding a vinyl cover in my hand, flipping true my collection and choosing the right Lp to listen to today. This , I don’t have with streaming
No ultrasonic frequencies above 20khz in CDs but vinyl can reproduce those frequencies. Most musical instruments emit those frequencies and they have been shown to affect the brain in a positive way. That may be why many people find vinyl more engaging that CDs
@@dtz1000 true! In addition, vinyl records being analog media, the analog sound waveforms are literally engraved on the vinyl grooves and then reproduced by converting the vibrations caused by those waveforms into an electrical analog signal that is in turn amplified and converted back into sound waves by the speakers. Since all this sound information is present in the physical world, it also creates small resonances which are pleasant to hear since they are not random frequencies, but in synch with the fundamental signal. This generates the warmth people use to describe the sound of vinyl record playback, just like how an acoustic guitar does, versus the “purity” of a digital signal, which sounds empty in comparison ☺️
@@JoeOrber Analog media recorded and mastered digitally...
I love vinyl. However, it bothers me that ONLY songs that are placed 2-3 first from the edge sound good or great. The CD, on the other hand, does not have this disadvantage. I have many titles on CD and vinyl and I honestly admit that I don't know which is better. Much depends on the particular release because mastering can bring or take away a lot. A lot depends on the quality of the equipment on which you play music. If you have a bad CD player and a great turntable with an expensive cartridge and connect it to a good amplifier, vinyl will win. And vice versa. In general, as a vinyl lover, I must unfortunately admit that... CD wins if done well. The CD is the ultimate format... almost. MASTERING makes the difference. It`s the worst with POP music and the best with classical and jazz.
How is this claim that songs 2-3 are the ones that sound great? What is the difference?
As for MQA ("Master Quality Authenticated"), it is a smoke-and-mirrors lossy format designed to enforce Digital Rights Management copyright restrictions while providing no provable audible benefit to the consumer. Even most audiophile publications, which are usually quick to jump on board with any allegedly "hi-res" or "master quality" format, have walked away from endorsing MQA.
well said!!
In my opinion, CD is better than vinyl. I grew up listening to vinyl until CD came along. Vinyl may sound better as far a warmth or tonallity, however, vinyl has one big drawback. Every vinyl I have ever heard has pops, clicks, and hisses into it, even brand new records. These imperfections distract from the music and is the main reason I switched to CD. I want my music to be just the music and not colored by imperfection in the medium. Just my opinion.
As someone who grew up on Vinyl, CDs are better. I had a high end turntable, rack system and speakers as a young teen. Then came cassettes and the portability of Walkmans and tape decks in the car, that auto reversed. Then came the CD that the millennials, grew up on, clear sounds, scratched, no problem. They moved to streaming, Pandora, Spotify... for convivence and playlists that were auto created. And then they heard friend's Vinyl on a turntable with real speakers & was like WOW! Vinyl does have way better sounds than flashed based music on phones, or small portable speakers. So that's why Vinyl is growing in sales. Here's the kicker on Vinyl, it degrades, especially if not taken care of properly, or stored vertically. Heat is no friend to Vinyl. Also, turntables and speakers are not all equal, be careful sharing. CD manufacturers and stores are guilty too. Best Buy, no CDs, Target, 1 end cap on a main aisle and Wally World 2 end caps on the main aisle. That's it besides secondary store sellers. So go ahead and figure out Vinyl isn't all it's cracked up to be & by then new CDs won't be available. So I still have that great rack system with a few Vinyl LPs I couldn't get on CD and they play fine. My daily go to is my iPod Classic, not flash based, and on Bose Docking speaker sound great. My car has 11 speaker Bose with USB for my iPod. I'm good and pay no subscription fees or have commercials, with better sound.
Good morning Mr. Robinson,
It would seem that we agree more than disagree on this topic. First I am a music lover. Second comes the way it is delivered to my ears. Please note that I am much older than you and have been an "audiophile" since 1977. I have a $2500 turntable and $1500 phono stage. Total value of my system is around $20,000 (worth more to me than anything else in the world that I own or ever hope to own). I have an $800 cd player and $500 DAC and a $1200 cassette deck(yes I still enjoy playing with tape too). My intention in telling the prices in my equipment is not to brag nor to appologize for one format or the other. Simply said - I listen to both and I do not own a streamer so no comment for lack of personal experience with that format.
Now that all being said I listen to both formats, digital and analogue, not based on "which is better" but rather "what do I want to listen to today or now?"
I my humble library I have around 800 records, 500 CD's and countless tapes that have come and gone over the years. Which of the two formats for me are dependent on the individual recordsing. There is no debate that digital recordings are more technically accurate than analogue but that does not mean that all digital sounds better on all recordings. There are some recordings that I like better on CD and some records sound better to me.
I like, generally speaking, listening to records the best because I grew up in that generation where we took our records to other locations to share and enjoy and I like all the rituals of care and preparation of the record for listening. With both CD and records I get to own the music and art on the covers so I will say and perhaps this is my ignorance of streaming that "What do you own with streaming-nothing?"
Yes records first for me, but most important MUSIC! i hope I have not taken up more of your time on this than I should have, perhaps this dicussion should not be so much of a debate and more about sharing the love of music in any form that one can enjoy it. Thank you for this opportunity to share my thoughts on this topic. Loved the approach you have taken to this subject and look forward to hearing and seeing more videos in the future. Best of luck to you in all of your endeavors.
So basically cd is better but people will say vinyl is no matter what.
It's more to do with recording and then production. On some things the CD will sound better, some instances vinyl may. A shit recording is a shit recording no matter, but i'd bet that you have a better chance with older stuff that CD on average would be better. With the new vinyl craze and it's resurgence, maybe not as much. As he said, you need to put more work into vinyl to insure you get that better sound. Ever had a party and someone was dancing too hard near the player on a desk and had it skip all night? :-)
@@banginga3468 yeah I agree with you, I do think vinyl sounds great, but I too grew up with vinyl and remember when cds first came out, I remember how I along with everyone else were amazed at how good they sounded and everyone rushed out and replaced their vinyl with them, I do think some of these vinyl fanatics do like to pretend that never happened.
Totally agree, vinyl is great but like you say, I still think cd is better.
@@banginga3468 That's totally what I have observed. Some albums are better on vinyl and some are better on CDs. The 2 formats are complementary with one another (I also like cassette tape because of its ability to record vinyl while staying in the analog realm, plus they are quite fun to play with)
Cd for me. I think its a matter of how you want to experience music. I like owning the music and i dont like the work you have to put in vinyl. Cds today are so cheap that streaming seems more expensive to me.
Streaming cost what, $10 to $20 per month and you dont really listen to 50,000 of the catalogs. With $20 you can get 7-10 used mint condition cds per month. Thats more that enough for me.
Yes they're way cheaper, some weeks ago i bought a copy of The Thirthteen Step by A Perfect Circle for just 11 cents, i think that store won't sell CDs anymore
I don't know if it is mostly psychology logical but playing records just FEELS better.
Nothing like turning the lights off and playing your favorite record
CDs are much more covenient to play - unlike LP records , quality of sound will reproduction will always remain constant , not deterioate with time and number of plays. Apart from anything else , for classical lovers , like myself , the CDs have too many advantages over tht vinyl LPs.
LP is for music ritual, being enjoying things outside the music itself
I buy CD's when I want to rip to hard drive. I buy vinyl when I love an album so much that I'd never not listen to it in its entirely, and I also love the album art. Vinyl is more of a passion. CD's are more of a collection quota.
Unfortunately, most computers are definitely not HiFi products when it comes to sound reproduction. There is very much a computer that can send out interference signals. the best is probably external DAC outside the computer
Do you rip without compression?
I'm 65 been buyin music for 50 years.Got 2000 vynil lps ,3000 cds albums .So my answer is Neather , to me it's " A.B.S"( Anything but spotify).
✌🏼😎
I feel we have a VERY similar love and philosophy of music. I'm 60 and have been listening to vinyl since a very young kid... From 45s to LPs, 8 trackss and cassettes.. then to CDs and downloads, and more recently- streaming. I left LPs for a while and then years later dusted off the vinyl again. I have a lot of thoughts about music formats and lessons learned over the 50+ years of listening to audio.
Listening to music is not so much an activity, but an experience. How you want to experience music varies .. especially between different people. The method people prefer is just that.. a preference.
After all these years, I've come to the conclusion the best format will never be resolved. There's just too many variables and no two sets of ears are the same.
As much as I love vinyl and the beautiful large format (and packaging), I still find myself loving well mastered audiophile grade CDs. The noise floor is so low, the maintenance so minimal, the reproduction no different. The sound of static, pops or clicks during a very quiet passage on vinyl can drive me nuts (sometimes).
As for streaming (Tidal), it's great.. only problem is you will inevitably have a song that or track that pauses or stops due to traffic or connectivity issues.. even more frustrating compared to my issues with vinyl.
I'd have a blast sitting around with you talking music etc. Good channel. Good video.
I love vinyl for the snaps, crackles, and pops, because it takes me back to childhood and my favorite breakfast cereal.
And back then we were listening to 78s.
Grew up from about 10 listening to vinyl. Now I have the dilemma of getting rid of the tonnage of vinyl I've replaced on CD.
Being a senior citizen with admittedly deteriorated hearing from when I was in my 20's, I have been collecting vintage CD's for the last few years from a variety of sources. Many of the CD's are from the same era as the original LP's that I have in my collection. I find that the differences vary widely album to album. While I am not into current music (I couldn't tell you the name any Taylor Swift song), I do have both albums and duplicate CD's from a wide array music styles. I think that the source, engineering, and mastering of the media is far more important than the actual distribution method. The best mastered LP's I have are from the sixties and seventies were from Phase 4 Stereo and Command records. The CD versions of these albums, where they are available, are fairly faithful remasters of the original LP's. All of my CD's have been ripped and are on my digital player. I do not use streaming, as I prefer to own the media I like.
"Yeah, you've got a point. Specifically, an engineer has the capability to produce very good sound, but when working with a low budget, do we hear the final version that matches what a high-paid engineer could produce? Sometimes, producers may cut corners to finalize a version and turn a profit, neglecting buyer satisfaction."
Useless discussion i think. To many factors are involved with sound reproduction on youre audio system. Mastering on cd or vinyl is totally different. How good is the quallity of the riaa preamp, quallity of the cartridge/stylus, or dac from cd player or amplifier? Vinyl revival is fine, but it's a difficult, and expensive system to get maximum sound quallity out.
You took completely wrong album for comparison. For analog recording you need something mastered purely in analog domain and for digital the oposite. Whenever you go in hybrid makes no sense for comparison, it has nothing to do with particular technology rather mixture that by its origin makes a mess in recording and the final outcome..
Hi Andrew,
I follow your channel because I believe there is no B/S with your views. I have had a vinyl collection of about 20,000 albums, when Sony released their first CD player I started sell g off my vinyl...big mistake as from a financial point they would be worth a lot more today.
Anyway to get to the point of cd/vinyl....I am a CD enthusiasts. Reason being for all the reasons stated plus the fact there is no SURFACE noise. I find the reason that many who prefer vinyl is the lack of transient response and this results in a warmer sound. As a previous speaker designer and owner I have to say I find CD reproduction to be the more accurate.
As an added comment the biggest difference in the digital domain is the digital to analogue converters used in more modern players.
I unfortunately believe if someone spends a large amount on a turntable, arm and cartridge they are going to be physco- acoustically biased towards their vinyl commitment.
I am retired now but just wanted to add my two bits.
I like cds because they're cheaper, require a cheaper set-up for the same quality as vinyl, and you can store them digitally forever. Vinyl is cool too though if you have a ton of money. Streaming is good for finding new music that you can purchase later on.
I have returned to listen to vinyl for the last two years, after listening to CDs for 20 years , SACDs, HD files and some streaming, Streaming is definitely out of the question when it comes to listening and enjoying good sound, but it is great for background music when doing something else. Vinyl and CDs or SACDs can be equally enjoyable depending of the mastering and quality of the pressing. Some vinyls sound fantastic and some sound terrible. The same can be said about CDs and SACDs. Sometimes some specific CDs can sound better than the same album in vinyl. To me it appears that the quality and craftsmanship of each production is a bigger factor than the medium.
Also the minor compression issues with CD are way less of a factor than crackling and popping . When the band was originally recording music , the music didn't crackle and pop !!! Crackling and popping isn't pure sound :p . Id rather have very minute compression issues with a CD that are literally unnoticeable than crackling and popping.....think about it.
I love both forms but CD is better...hell I still listen to tapes.
Notice no one arguing for the superiority of tapes. lol Actually, tapes are similar to vinyl in that the quality of the media and the playback device makes a world of difference. On a good system with a good media, the classic hiss noise becomes a non-issue.
@@fcsuper I've had my share of tapes in the 80's and early 90's . I agree that they can sound decent but I'm not going through the trouble.
I have a vintage late 70's Aiwa tape deck that's pretty sweet , but by no means do I actively look for tapes . If I happen to come across any heavy metal which is pure luck I'll buy them but I'm not really looking . I have enough CDs and Vinyl.
But to be honest I'd rather have minor tape hiss than very distracting pops and crackles from vinyl .
Again Vinyl is great when it's new and clean but doesn't stay that way unless your in a vacuum chamber to keep the dust away lol.
CDs are not compressed. They are lossless.
Cd is by far superior to vynil, there is no objective measurement to the audio quality where vynil out performs cd the same with tube amplifiers verses modern amplifiers
Vinyl
I have about 40 choice records, 200 choice cds and about 4000 songs on my computer and eternal hard drive. I have never gotten into streaming.
The fun part of vinyl is for me the memories attached to a record and albums covers, beyond that i get liitle use out of vinyl. For cds I occasionally listen to them but again beyond copying them to my computer or making a mix cd of favorite songs I rarely listen to my cds.
These days I set up a system with my computer music to listen through headphones and stereo system and I am happy boy.
That being sad if cds come back I love to go to local store and spend time checking them out and purchasing them.
Bottom line is music is meant to bring joy and comfort to to the listener, whatever format(s) provide that then go for it.
Side note: the quality of a recording is important I have many mp3 that sound great to my ears it doesn't always have the to be about high fidelity. I seek out whatever format what is most pleasing to mystery ears.
The main differences will be because you are actually listening to the equipment specific DAC in each scenario. It is the DAC circuit that creates the first and main level of analog sound quality out of our speakers…
The sound of cd's and vinyl all depends on how it was recorded and mastered.. Streaming digital downloads are just for convenience not sound quality. For me vinyl is way more fun and a great conversation piece. And in the long run vinyl is worth way more money if you want to sell it. Plus there's music on vinyl that you can't get on cd's or downloads.
Having just gotten back audiophile after about 40 years I use both cd and vinyl. It’s more about finding my favorite albums and just listening to them. Thanks for your videos !
Andrew, Thanks for the video. A couple of points you didn't mention in the video: 1) the cartridge, being a transducer, can make a big difference due to its characteristic sound and its setup, 2) recordings with heavy bass will almost always sound better on CD since vinyl mastering requires attenuation of heavy bass on many recordings, especially if out of phase, 3) signal-to-noise ratio is not discussed, certainly CDs should have intrinsically better S/N compared to vinyl and a complete absence of pops and ticks. These are some important points that may make digital better (but probably not in all cases). Thoughts?
I only want to say that analog had better low frequencies than cds, since ever but cds do have more higher volume in limited low frequencies that makes midle frequencies sound lower as higher frequencies are not well defined ,they do sound good at home with a good cd player but the poblem is in mid high frequencies , normally strings vibration or analog efects that are captured by a microphone , they can be recorded into a DAT and sound good but than recorded into vinyl sounds next to perfection and if recorded to a cd it´s a horrible sound if compared to the original digital tapes ,that´s why vinyl or records will always sound better because they are faithfull to the original sorce, digital or analog, nothing against digital only like to hear music with real sound
if one doesn´t have an average system ,also a cartridge makes most of the sound on a turntable , but the turntable if well built not like those Pro-Ject or cheaper Rega ,this around 1.000€ which is in my opinion very expensive for the building quality that don´t reflect the quality of the cartridge it makles it sound cheap
Playing vinyl records is more enjoyable and more engaging to me. Sometimes you get nice artwork to look at and some information relating to the artist. I find myself listening to the whole album rather than skipping around or mixing songs up in a playlist.
I think it's more common for people to say CDs are superior to vinyl. For me, it depends on the master, the equipment, and the age of the product.
The point that most people miss when discussing Vinyl vs. CDs is the inherent background noise that vinyl introduces to every recording. Lint, dirt, or just the friction from the needle touching the vinyl ruins the experience of vinyl for me. Again, that's FOR ME. Everyone has the right to prefer whatever they want. I gravitate towards CDs 100% of the time. I "dislike" the compression of streaming services, but I understand they are a needed "annoyance". So, I'm willing to live with that annoyance. And thus I live in a digital world with all (almost all) my music in Apple Music. It's the most reasonable compromise. Cheers, be well, R.
Hello Raphael, hope you are doing well.
I want to get started with listening to music on CD/DVD. Some of the artists such has steven wilson have mixed albums in 5.1, so i really want to experience them at a better quality than just streaming.
Could you advise on the components that i need to look out for to set up a 5.1 system compatible to play CD/DVD. I have no knowledge so apologize for any illiterate statement.
Thank you
@@tejaswyvijaykumar Honestly I would not know. My music comes mostly from Apple Music and digitized versions of my old CDs into Apple Music, and I believe all I listen to is stereo only, not 5.1. I do have a 5.2.2 home theater in my place, but only movies, especially with Dolby Atmos, can fully take advantage of my 5.2.2 setup. So, I don’t know about music that is more than stereo. Sorry. R.
@@BRBearUSA thank you for the response. I was able to research about home theaters v hifi systems. I'm starting to gain a little bit of knowledge.
I find that it's a subjective experience not just between vinyl and cd, but also between albums and songs.
There are some albums that sound better TO ME on vinyl, and some that seem to sound better on cd or
hi-res digital. What we tend to leave out of the discussion a lot is the mastering and recording quality.
..... and boy, does it ever vary!
I had vinyl before there were cds, and then years later switched to flac recordings of cds and hi-res digital because of living a nomadic lifestyle where I needed my music to be portable. But now that I'm settled again, I use all of the formats: vinyl, cd, and streaming.
Like you, I find streaming to be good for exploring an artist's works without having to spend a lot of money in doing so. but when I find music that I really love and want to keep listening to, I seek it out in either vinyl or digital hi-res.
Subjectively, I find that if an album was mastered in all analog, then the vinyl is usually better sounding. And that seems to happen more with older music.
But vinyl that is mastered in all-digital usually doesn't sound good to my ears, and i will go for the digital.
I have found that vinyl is a more finicky format to work with. Even if you invest in a decent turntable, cartridge and phono amp, you have to make sure that the table and cartridge are properly set up, and that the records are clean. And you have to keep doing this, or your sound will deteriorate noticeably!
In the end, I listen to music because of the joy it brings me, and that musical experience is always more important to me than what format it is in or how cheap or expensive the hifi gear is.
Having grown up with vinyl (I'm a child of the late 50's and 60's), that's where my preference has always been. I have nothing against CD's. I own a player and any number of CD's but the vinyl resurgence has been a delight for me and to once again be buying records is something I thought I'd never witness at this point in my life. I need the physical interaction with a vinyl album which was always a highlight of mine during my youth. And with the new turntables and speakers I've purchased over the past couple of years, listening once again to vinyl has been a wonderful experience. If it sounds like I'm revisiting my youth, it's because I am.
Completely agree with that people spend thousands and thousands of dollars just to make vinyl sound more like the CDs they despise 😆. Better buy the CD in the first place. I like vinyl, but play it on a modest 70s turntable. Looks amazing, feels like a piece of history, and sounds like vinyl, warts and all. Especially *because of* the warts 😁. When I play vinyl (or tape, for that matter) I want to be able to tell that I do. Makes it more authentic.
Any physical format where you can collect, own and celebrate the music is better than streaming music. Vinyl is for the whole experience, CDs more convenient, MiniDisc best to enjoy your music on the go and cassettes for Mixtapes where you are forced to listen through the whole side, without constantly skipping to the next track.
While I don't personally collect or listen to vinyl records, I've always been captivated by the sheer beauty of vinyl covers and platters. The larger format really brings the artwork to life, making them visually appealing pieces to appreciate. 👍
For me it's not as much a battle between formats as it is using the formats to their strengths. In my case it's streaming (Spotify) and vinyl, and they complement each other very well. Streaming is for convenience. I can stream it on my PC that is wired to my stereo, on my phone using a bluetooth headset or to the Sonab speakers at work. It all sounds good enough for what it is. If I like something to the point that I want to own it, I'll try and get it on vinyl and when I listen to vinyl I listen in a different way. Less distractions, usually just me and the record, and that entire record (art, lyrics, info) and the music gets a lot more attention than it would otherwise. So to me vinyl does sound better, not because it necessarily is higher quality, but because it engages me more. I pick up more details, I get more into the music and the artist, and most importantly to me, it makes me enjoy the music a whole lot more.
Couldn't agree more!
Is CD or Vinyl better? Wrong, listening on an actual stereo system whose sole function is playing music, is better. We forgot how great stereo systems sounded after listening through tiny ear buds playing from our phones and tablets. That being said, I love my vinyl.
Cd's all day long, that's why vinyl died originally, it's just fashion.
However, SACD and Blu Ray audio in 5.1 blow everything else out of the water.
Andrew Robinson You have mentioned something that is key for me in this topic.
And it’s the fact that the vynl sound quality is high dependent on the turntable quality... therefore, the CD is a very "democratic" format because it gives you a high sound quality at a really much lower cost.
This is one of the keys for me, use and listen to vinyls is a great experience, but the CD is much convenient, affordable, and easy to use.
CDs are so convenient. Don’t have to get up to flip the record over. I also find I tend to listen to whole album on CD, where with records I tend to listen to only one side. It’s also easy to skip tracks or listen to the same track multiple times. All that said, I still prefer analog sound (not the pops and clicks lol)
There’s so much more to format wars than sound quality.
I'll be sticking with digital.
I grew up with vinyl and compact cassette, and my family, not being wealthy, only got our first Sony CD player in the mid 90s. For me the difference in quality was just staggering, and I've never looked back. No pops, crackles, handling LPs like live explosives etc. So while I can appreciate vinyl, my choice will be CD every time. However, I do find modern CDs are generally mastered very poorly compared with earlier works. A sign of the times I suppose.
I’ve been doing direct comparison between files and vinyl, both with very good gear in a professionally calibrated audio system. Your observations are right on, but with one exception. That vinyl midrange body and decay is what I found to be necessary to evoke emotion. This requires some extended listening to experience and understand. Vinyl can bring me to tears. I’ve never experienced that with digital. I tend to find myself analyzing the sound instead. That digital clarity and extension comes with a price and I feel that the price is that it leaves a hole in the midrange area in comparison. Sometimes I feel like there’s some music missing. It’s lack of decay often gives it a steely or dry sound in comparison. Digital does impress at first listen but listening at length usually induces listening fatigue for me. I can listen to vinyl for hours on end and never get fatigued. Both are great mediums, but for that extra something something, vinyl is for me.
I like all 3. IL stream for while. Then spin some records. Then put a CD in. They all have a place in my life.
But on my system wich is a very modest vintage gear.
Yamaha 2040
Thornes TD 126
JBL 4312'S
Seems when I go back to spinning records I'm always surprised on how much more of the music I seem to hear from records.
Anybody else rocking some vintage gear?
Robert Plemmons i can relate.
It all depends on how the album was mastered. Older albums were mastered for vinyl and transferred to digital, newer albums were mastered for cd and transferred to vinyl. If the album had two different masters one for vinyl and one for digital the sound difference will be negligible. Oh and streaming quality sucks bad. There is always something missing due to the compression, the smaller files mean something has to be taken out. But streaming is extremely convenient. I prefer cds in general due to size and ability to choose tracks with the click of a button. Just my opinion.
@MF Nickster Nobody can hear the the difference to a 320 Kbit/s mp3 if a modern encoder was used
EXCEPT
some people with special ear defects.
For example if you are more or less deaf for a specific frequency the compression model used by mp3 fails as it is based on a normal ear.
If the music contains a very loud signal on that frequency and a small signal with a nearby frequency the healthy ear could not hear that small signal - but the one how is deaf on the frequency with the loud signal can hear it.
It’s such sad world, when you have to beg people not to get triggered over a personal opinion, given with pure motives 😕
The cool thing is we live in an age which allows us the option to pick and choose. I enjoy all of the formats.
Even staying within the digital domain, if you rip a file from a cd , play it on ur computer it should sound similar shouldn't it? So where the difference comes from , "the players" , those players act like a preamp too and give out their own taste and coloring to the sound , better players for better bucks.
More details larger sound image but the best digital sound you get on SACD or DVD audio, or possibly places like HD Tracks so buy download of music files in hi-res
In my opinion, to me CD's are the perfect music collecting format. I'm the kind of person who only wants to have the bare minimum of stuff. I don't want to own a ton of stuff. And so vinyl, while I think it's super cool, is really too much of a hassle. You have to hold it just right, it gets dirty, covered in static, it collects tons of dust, takes up a lot of room, involves a ton of equipment. Wheras with CD, I have one of those nice rotating CD shelves that can hold a ton of discs just fine. And all I need is a Sony CFDS70 to play them. They don't collect dust, you don't have to clean them, MUCH easier to hold, better sound quality (to my ears), and also, CHEAPER. The vinyl comeback has caused vinyl to go through the roof. But it has caused CDs to get cheaper. Often under $5 for a record over $20. I use my CFDS70 for tapes too, I record CDs onto them (the CFDS70 records perfectly) to play in my portable Jensen cassette player on the go. I do have some vinyl, but only about maybe 20ish and a cheap Jensen record player.
One important point for the regular listener who can't afford thousands of dollars worth of equipment is, How much do you need to spend to get excellent audio quality in CD, and how much do you need to spend to get closer, or to sound better than a CD with a turntable. What a 50$ CD player gives you, and what a 50$ turntable gives you? Make this test (you know it's not necessary).
Great videos, very elegant video editing (not this one in particular, but I've seen some at this point) and great eloquence. Tired of youtubers who cant'n even speak properly. You won a subscriber!
So glad I went back and found this video of this discussion. I have been convinced that analog - vinyl is better from years of reading journals like the Absolute Sound but then I remember when Mercury Records released their catalogue on CD and was hard pressed to think Vinyl was better. The conclusion after decades of listening for me is that in all mediums few things are really that good sounding which I think is why when most of a demonstrate a piece of equipment we pull out our best sounding recordings to evaluate the equipment rather than just the music we like. Frankly, after 50 years of being addicted to equipment all I really want is a system that makes almost everything I listen to sound good regardless of whether vinyl or digital or streaming. One last point. Starting at 18 years of age (I’m now 72), I have spent every Saturday night in a live jazz club except for random illnesses that popped up maybe totaling a dozen over all those years and frankly from a technical standpoint, many of those live performances sounded terrible, distorted, poorly miked, bad acoustics etc. but the emotional experience of a live event overrides any and all technical flaws. Music should be an emotional experience in my opinion and my goal as I said is to find a system that I stop caring if it is CD or vinyl or streaming. Thanks for yours and Kristi’s equipment reviews, but thanks more for being willing to reveal your human side. We are attracted to people, like music for the emotional experience and that is what makes your channel different. Cheers!