Good questions, and Wallace's answers were brilliant. Infinite Jest as a book kind of fulfills it's own message. It's a notoriously difficult book about the dangers of easy entertainment. I think that's just one of the reasons I'm (so far) really enjoying it. The third chapter about the man who essentially lives in his house, smokes pot, watches entertainment cartridges, and waits for a woman he doesn't want to see is just very sad, but also eye opening.
@7:05 I've been looking for this quote for a month, It's been on the tip of my tongue for the last year (Cov19) "The first leading cause of death among teenagers is suicide. Drug addiction - sexual addiction - gambling addiction in this country is epidemic. The divorce rate is sky high, people in this country are lost and wandering around and looking to give themselves away to something that will maybe love them back as much as they love it. I think there is plenty of incentive to reevaluate our relationship to the world and what we view as pleasure. The question I think, is sort of an individual one; What level of pain do we need to reach before we begin to be willing to undertake the work that is reevaluation." This sentiment rings crystal clear.
And here we are 18 years later, watching this on the most popular (non-pornograhic) streaming website in the world, an undeniable entertainment hub. The sad irony runs through and through. Have we as a culture failed or succeeded?
Regardless of what portion of entertainment we're addicted to, we're definetely there. Access to constant online entertainment is a huge cause of depression, and we can't help ourselves because it initially is JUST entertainment, but ultimately it's a huge long term hazard.
Dave was right. There's people neglecting their children & neglecting themselves in favour of e.g. WoW to the point where people die. Lots of things like games or youtube etc. is just Infinite Jest in many different forms.
His comments on the possibility of culture heading in a direction where fascism would become a viable option for many Americans probably sounded pretty radical in 1996...
The funny thing is that both political sides are going to agree with you. I legitimately cannot tell if you're hinting at the evil democrats or the evil republicans.
You can feel the indecision inside of him. Just as Steve Jobs scratched the surface of the Tao but could not “get it” our friend DFW was trying to “feel” existentialism but could not get through it to get to “purpose”. He was stuck at just existing.
hmm, could you elaborate? Existentialism seems to be a bit of an umbrella word--just like postmodernism--that's so broad and all-encompassing it ends up being quite vague. What kind of existentialist pursuit are you referring to?
@@xandrafuhrer existentialism is the intersection of responsibility & freedom. Existentialism is the philosophy that asks you how you choose to exist in this world of almost unlimited freedoms and responsibilities. When you find yourself going through hell , you should keep on going to create an existence for yourself that has enough meaning in it that it gives you reason to keep going. David could not find enough reason to keep going so his existence was no existence. He was not right or wrong , it’s his existence that he must assign meaning to no one else’s.
@@freedomworks3976 ahh, I see. I actually feel like David found immense purpose throughout his life: Infinite Jest, his nonfiction, and certain stories in Oblivion are about exactly what you're describing, and show characters find purpose in altruism, self-transcendence, creativity, aesthetic beauty, love. They found tremendous suffering in those abstractions too, of course, but the fact that they and their respective fictions exist means that David's own devotion to writing outweighed the desire to just end his suffering. He chose to Be for nearly five decades. His life was in the shadow of the thing too big to see, growing...to quote is own diagnosis. And that Thing was diametrically opposed to everything worth living for, in a way that's actually quite simple: it removed the sense of meaning they created. David took his life to escape, not out of defeat. To quote him a second time: "Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire’s flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It’s not desiring the fall; it’s terror of the flames." I have no doubts that he wasn't already burning on that September day, alone, with nobody to tie him down.
@@xandrafuhrer well said well written. I think so many writers spend so much time in there own heads they get locked up in there own prison without bars. They ruminate in there own heads and can’t get out until they get there entire beings out of life completely. I can’t imagine how much pain he must have been in to do this. Sad state of affairs.
I would say this is society as a whole we are becoming vampires of self masterbation. Show yourself doing something fun living an interesting life. Never show yourself sad or ugly that will drain the self image you only show yourself being or doing
Judging from his tone any grown male set loose in the world and who feels rather than knows he is either on target or rewired to function like he is is doomed to fail like a sustainable vegetable growing in soil. Water and hand is not the point as much as the multitude of varieties he must grapple with. I still feel there is a cure for it. Actually I know there is.
I see, as we evolve as civilisation, the intenet,videos are the new generations realm of enjoyment, Just as our parents pleasure might have been gained fromTV, their parents were also disturbed by the 'posibility' that their child's minds may have been 'vaporised' by 'the box', however,we must accept the 'y' generations need and exploration of the mind and soul by way of a different mechnasim than our own,to have 'balance' in all areas, includes modern technological learning tools as well:)
He is so incredibly smart and charming that you might just buy his statement “Everyone is miserable” acritically, for its emotional power. The only problem is, it’s not true. It might have been true for him and his friends, but it’s a terribly inaccurate generalization that lends itself to a lot of criticism. For example: “miserable compared to what? To whom? To when?” People live very different lives, and many people grow out of their problems, in fact they “grow up”, find a center of gravity (religion or else) and go on to live a life that is not miserable at all.
@KennyReddwooddforest Yes, I understand. But what is the connection between those episodes and that actress of TOL and D.F.W? And then, what's up with Karen Green and David? What do those episodes and artist Karen Green have to do with anything? Please explain! the suspense is killing me.
I see, as we evolve as civilisation, the intenet/videos are the new generations realm of enjoyment, Just as our parents pleasure might have been gained fromTV, their parents were also disturbed by the 'posibility' that their child's minds may have been 'vaporised' by 'the box', however,we must accept the 'y' generations need and exploration of the mind and soul by way of a different mechnasim than our own,to have 'balance' in all areas, includes modern technological learning tools as well:)
The Annenberg Public Policy Center studied 110 families from 1999 to 2001 to monitor their V-chip usage. Only 33 of 110 families ever bothered to program their V-chip, and only 9 used it regularly.
@KennyReddwooddforest I am an Outer Limits fan and I remember Marie 25 and Valerie 23 episodes, but what does that has to do with David FW? Are those episodes based on his stories or is he just a fan of the show?
why scenes from blade runner? blade runner is fucking cool not something dangerous or addicting or something that can make you die of starvation on a sofa... blade runner is very respectful. fucking excellent movie, magnus opus of a book (IJ), a person that i respect a whole lot (DFW)
he never meant those weirdo RPGs. He meant the 'helmet on head' type, like the film - Gamer. Still, it is the same kind of thing, you just have to DIY while watching a screen..
"As we get more and more, quote, decadent, and more and more unhappy, I think at a certain point, we are going to be desperate enough to have other people just tell as what to do. The form of fascism that goes under the name 'The Christian Right' is going to look viable to a lot of people." To put it another way, some people will cling to guns and religion.
4 ปีที่แล้ว +1
Just because he mentions the Christian Right as an example does not mean American right wing politics are the only way for this to unfold. The media sphere in the US is comprised of hundreds if not thousands of networks, all owned by the same people, all pushing the same narrative, telling masses what to think. Twitter and reddit users aren't independent thinkers, they parrot those same talking points. On one hand, yes, there is a form of fascism on the political right, but you are a fool to think the other popular extreme is any better in this sense. But it would seem that finding a middle ground of sanity is becoming harder and harder as both ways of thinking diverge further into their respective extremes. What's ironic here is that they are both marching towards some incarnation of fascism -- even if the movements themselves may deny it, to an unbiased observer and ACTUAL free thinker (as I would hope viewers of this video would be), this conclusion should be the obvious one, in my opinion.
Good questions, and Wallace's answers were brilliant.
Infinite Jest as a book kind of fulfills it's own message. It's a notoriously difficult book about the dangers of easy entertainment. I think that's just one of the reasons I'm (so far) really enjoying it. The third chapter about the man who essentially lives in his house, smokes pot, watches entertainment cartridges, and waits for a woman he doesn't want to see is just very sad, but also eye opening.
BloggerMusicMan.......I'm reading also at this point in time and having to injest it all but think he has great points
@7:05 I've been looking for this quote for a month, It's been on the tip of my tongue for the last year (Cov19)
"The first leading cause of death among teenagers is suicide. Drug addiction - sexual addiction - gambling addiction in this country is epidemic. The divorce rate is sky high, people in this country are lost and wandering around and looking to give themselves away to something that will maybe love them back as much as they love it. I think there is plenty of incentive to reevaluate our relationship to the world and what we view as pleasure. The question I think, is sort of an individual one; What level of pain do we need to reach before we begin to be willing to undertake the work that is reevaluation."
This sentiment rings crystal clear.
And here we are 18 years later, watching this on the most popular (non-pornograhic) streaming website in the world, an undeniable entertainment hub. The sad irony runs through and through. Have we as a culture failed or succeeded?
+TooWeirdTooRare420 Luckily we can watch DFW interviews because of this streaming website :)
TooWeird.....Failed as a culture but change is the only constant..........
we still got freedom of choice DFW was very intrigued by our ability to choose our own means of living etc.
I was playing tetris while listening to this and now I feel called out.
Regardless of what portion of entertainment we're addicted to, we're definetely there. Access to constant online entertainment is a huge cause of depression, and we can't help ourselves because it initially is JUST entertainment, but ultimately it's a huge long term hazard.
i love and miss this guy literally
Dave was right. There's people neglecting their children & neglecting themselves in favour of e.g. WoW to the point where people die. Lots of things like games or youtube etc. is just Infinite Jest in many different forms.
His comments on the possibility of culture heading in a direction where fascism would become a viable option for many Americans probably sounded pretty radical in 1996...
and yet, here we are, Trump is president
Peter......"and yet"
It’s crazy. He predicted blue states today.
The funny thing is that both political sides are going to agree with you. I legitimately cannot tell if you're hinting at the evil democrats or the evil republicans.
@@hcironman9196Republicans obviously. Democrats are never quite as bad as the Republicans.
a future A.I with his voice would be pretty cool.
This is fantastic.
Holy shit that's Blade Runner on the televisions... And IJ is my favorite book... In nerd nirvana right now.
Brilliant
unfortunately this video is hard to find despite searching the exact title
You can feel the indecision inside of him. Just as Steve Jobs scratched the surface of the Tao but could not “get it” our friend DFW was trying to “feel” existentialism but could not get through it to get to “purpose”. He was stuck at just existing.
hmm, could you elaborate? Existentialism seems to be a bit of an umbrella word--just like postmodernism--that's so broad and all-encompassing it ends up being quite vague. What kind of existentialist pursuit are you referring to?
@@xandrafuhrer existentialism is the intersection of responsibility & freedom. Existentialism is the philosophy that asks you how you choose to exist in this world of almost unlimited freedoms and responsibilities. When you find yourself going through hell , you should keep on going to create an existence for yourself that has enough meaning in it that it gives you reason to keep going. David could not find enough reason to keep going so his existence was no existence. He was not right or wrong , it’s his existence that he must assign meaning to no one else’s.
@@freedomworks3976 ahh, I see. I actually feel like David found immense purpose throughout his life: Infinite Jest, his nonfiction, and certain stories in Oblivion are about exactly what you're describing, and show characters find purpose in altruism, self-transcendence, creativity, aesthetic beauty, love. They found tremendous suffering in those abstractions too, of course, but the fact that they and their respective fictions exist means that David's own devotion to writing outweighed the desire to just end his suffering. He chose to Be for nearly five decades. His life was in the shadow of the thing too big to see, growing...to quote is own diagnosis. And that Thing was diametrically opposed to everything worth living for, in a way that's actually quite simple: it removed the sense of meaning they created. David took his life to escape, not out of defeat. To quote him a second time: "Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire’s flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It’s not desiring the fall; it’s terror of the flames." I have no doubts that he wasn't already burning on that September day, alone, with nobody to tie him down.
@@xandrafuhrer well said well written.
I think so many writers spend so much time in there own heads they get locked up in there own prison without bars. They ruminate in there own heads and can’t get out until they get there entire beings out of life completely. I can’t imagine how much pain he must have been in to do this. Sad state of affairs.
I would say this is society as a whole we are becoming vampires of self masterbation. Show yourself doing something fun living an interesting life. Never show yourself sad or ugly that will drain the self image you only show yourself being or doing
Judging from his tone any grown male set loose in the world and who feels rather than knows he is either on target or rewired to function like he is is doomed to fail like a sustainable vegetable growing in soil. Water and hand is not the point as much as the multitude of varieties he must grapple with. I still feel there is a cure for it. Actually I know there is.
Was he a prophet or...?
I see, as we evolve as civilisation, the intenet,videos are the new generations realm of enjoyment, Just as our parents pleasure might have been gained fromTV, their parents were also disturbed by the 'posibility' that their child's minds may have been 'vaporised' by 'the box', however,we must accept the 'y' generations need and exploration of the mind and soul by way of a different mechnasim than our own,to have 'balance' in all areas, includes modern technological learning tools as well:)
So prescient in so many ways.
@KennyReddwooddforest And what about Valerie 23 and Marie 25? What does that actress and those episodes of TOL have to do whit D.F.W.?
2022 tiktok is like infinte jest the movie
He is so incredibly smart and charming that you might just buy his statement “Everyone is miserable” acritically, for its emotional power. The only problem is, it’s not true. It might have been true for him and his friends, but it’s a terribly inaccurate generalization that lends itself to a lot of criticism. For example: “miserable compared to what? To whom? To when?”
People live very different lives, and many people grow out of their problems, in fact they “grow up”, find a center of gravity (religion or else) and go on to live a life that is not miserable at all.
@KennyReddwooddforest Yes, I understand. But what is the connection between those episodes and that actress of TOL and D.F.W? And then, what's up with Karen Green and David? What do those episodes and artist Karen Green have to do with anything? Please explain! the suspense is killing me.
I see, as we evolve as civilisation, the intenet/videos are the new generations realm of enjoyment, Just as our parents pleasure might have been gained fromTV, their parents were also disturbed by the 'posibility' that their child's minds may have been 'vaporised' by 'the box', however,we must accept the 'y' generations need and exploration of the mind and soul by way of a different mechnasim than our own,to have 'balance' in all areas, includes modern technological learning tools as well:)
The Annenberg Public Policy Center studied 110 families from 1999 to 2001 to monitor their V-chip usage. Only 33 of 110 families ever bothered to program their V-chip, and only 9 used it regularly.
@KennyReddwooddforest I am an Outer Limits fan and I remember Marie 25 and Valerie 23 episodes, but what does that has to do with David FW? Are those episodes based on his stories or is he just a fan of the show?
video games = "infinite jest", IMO.
Internet in general
Its ironic and sad that he talks about Suicide in this talk.
Not really, he talked about it often. It's sad because he thought about it a lot and did everything to prevent him from doing it.
Read IJ
why scenes from blade runner? blade runner is fucking cool not something dangerous or addicting or something that can make you die of starvation on a sofa... blade runner is very respectful. fucking excellent movie, magnus opus of a book (IJ), a person that i respect a whole lot (DFW)
It's an artistic experiment. Do you ask artists why they used red instead of yellow?
more like miss out
I’ve seen reality , and it sucks. I will become “woke” and then angry and then I will protest protest protest !!!!!! Ya that’s it that will do it.
Come over
he never meant those weirdo RPGs. He meant the 'helmet on head' type, like the film - Gamer. Still, it is the same kind of thing, you just have to DIY while watching a screen..
look up at that green bar isn't that beautiful
.
"As we get more and more, quote, decadent, and more and more unhappy, I think at a certain point, we are going to be desperate enough to have other people just tell as what to do. The form of fascism that goes under the name 'The Christian Right' is going to look viable to a lot of people."
To put it another way, some people will cling to guns and religion.
Just because he mentions the Christian Right as an example does not mean American right wing politics are the only way for this to unfold. The media sphere in the US is comprised of hundreds if not thousands of networks, all owned by the same people, all pushing the same narrative, telling masses what to think. Twitter and reddit users aren't independent thinkers, they parrot those same talking points. On one hand, yes, there is a form of fascism on the political right, but you are a fool to think the other popular extreme is any better in this sense. But it would seem that finding a middle ground of sanity is becoming harder and harder as both ways of thinking diverge further into their respective extremes. What's ironic here is that they are both marching towards some incarnation of fascism -- even if the movements themselves may deny it, to an unbiased observer and ACTUAL free thinker (as I would hope viewers of this video would be), this conclusion should be the obvious one, in my opinion.
Terrible interpretation. Guns have nothing to do with any of this. Take your anti gun rhetoric somewhere else.