Another great video! I watched your video on self-arrest just before this one; obviously it would be preferred to attempt the opposite order in actual practice. Clearly you have practiced these maneuvers; The only thing I'd still like to see would be an example of your mechanics of transition from a "failed" self-belay to a self-arrest. Your presentation is excellent though and it seems pretty intuitive since your grip appears the same (pick facing posterior with firm "uphill hand" grip on head center, and downhill hand grip on the shaft) assuming progression to end grip / spike coverage as the maneuver transitions to self-arrest. Clearly the ability to do such a transition rapidly and automatically (without changing head grip) would be essential in many circumstances...
See, I'd been (falsely) told that self belay was SEATING the butt of the axe to grab on to before you maneuver or kick your next foothold when traversing. That way, if you slip while kicking a step, you're already "self belayed" in the sense that you can just hold on with both hands and then regain your footing.
Wouldn't a self arrest simply be the best option instead of a transitional option? Getting the whole of your body weight over the shaft of the axe with the pick driven into the surface seems like a more surefire way of preventing a following a trip or fall? Just curious. I have hike/climbed with an ice axe enough, but would not consider myself a pro. Would love your thoughts on how the belay is useful if the self arrest is it's "back-up".
Well self arrest ultimately has more stopping power, but most slips can be stopped with self belay which is just simpler and more reflexive to do. Self arrest is kind of overkill for a small slip imo because you are laying on the ground. face in the snow ect. im no pro myself, but thats how i understand it. (also walking with ax in self arrest grip can be kind of uncomfortable)
+Luke Stephens (lukegaming86) that makes sense. Thanks for your thoughts. I had never been taught the belay method so I was curious as to its implications in comparison to self arrest. You definitely have a good point about how self arrest might be overkill for many minor slips.
@@lukegaming86 The way this is presented makes it look like a failed self-belay will create an opportunity for self-arrest. Per my own previous comment, I wouldn't mind seeing an entire sequence of an attempted self belay that does not prevent a slide, transitioned to a self-arrest. Seems largely intuitive, but based on Mark's presentation; I am likely among many who can learn a lot by watching him. The head-grip appears the same, leading to a promising rule of "thumb" to keep the pick pointing to the rear during traverse so either or both can be attempted precisely when needed!
How is this a self belay? Isn't this a self arrest as you aren't... Belaying anything ro anyone? I suppose by 1900's definition it is, but I thought we universally called it self arrest now.
Two minutes of pure gold! Can save someone life.
Superb demonstration Mark ! Just like your other videos on moving safely on snow. I haven't seen better.
Dilip in India
I have a feeling that is not easy to do and you just made look easy.
Another great video! I watched your video on self-arrest just before this one; obviously it would be preferred to attempt the opposite order in actual practice. Clearly you have practiced these maneuvers; The only thing I'd still like to see would be an example of your mechanics of transition from a "failed" self-belay to a self-arrest. Your presentation is excellent though and it seems pretty intuitive since your grip appears the same (pick facing posterior with firm "uphill hand" grip on head center, and downhill hand grip on the shaft) assuming progression to end grip / spike coverage as the maneuver transitions to self-arrest. Clearly the ability to do such a transition rapidly and automatically (without changing head grip) would be essential in many circumstances...
Great video, really practical and useful, thanks for posting
these videos are gold. Thanks!
Another excellent video
thanks your demo...
Great video's. Very useful. Cheers!
See, I'd been (falsely) told that self belay was SEATING the butt of the axe to grab on to before you maneuver or kick your next foothold when traversing. That way, if you slip while kicking a step, you're already "self belayed" in the sense that you can just hold on with both hands and then regain your footing.
good one
Great videos! Thanks!
So... belay or arrest when slipping down?
When to try each of them?
Self belay as soon as you fall, self arrest if self belay does not work
Wouldn't a self arrest simply be the best option instead of a transitional option? Getting the whole of your body weight over the shaft of the axe with the pick driven into the surface seems like a more surefire way of preventing a following a trip or fall?
Just curious. I have hike/climbed with an ice axe enough, but would not consider myself a pro. Would love your thoughts on how the belay is useful if the self arrest is it's "back-up".
Well self arrest ultimately has more stopping power, but most slips can be stopped with self belay which is just simpler and more reflexive to do. Self arrest is kind of overkill for a small slip imo because you are laying on the ground. face in the snow ect. im no pro myself, but thats how i understand it. (also walking with ax in self arrest grip can be kind of uncomfortable)
+Luke Stephens (lukegaming86) that makes sense. Thanks for your thoughts. I had never been taught the belay method so I was curious as to its implications in comparison to self arrest. You definitely have a good point about how self arrest might be overkill for many minor slips.
@@lukegaming86 The way this is presented makes it look like a failed self-belay will create an opportunity for self-arrest. Per my own previous comment, I wouldn't mind seeing an entire sequence of an attempted self belay that does not prevent a slide, transitioned to a self-arrest. Seems largely intuitive, but based on Mark's presentation; I am likely among many who can learn a lot by watching him. The head-grip appears the same, leading to a promising rule of "thumb" to keep the pick pointing to the rear during traverse so either or both can be attempted precisely when needed!
Nice video with good technique. My only suggestion is that your axe seems quite a bit too short for casual walking on low angle slopes like that.
self arrest*
How is this a self belay? Isn't this a self arrest as you aren't... Belaying anything ro anyone?
I suppose by 1900's definition it is, but I thought we universally called it self arrest now.
Disliked by 5 wankers from wales. :P