Love this topic! I'm a bass player, and I have jam session ptsd. Oof. Calling a tune, and six tenor players line up. If they don't limit themselves to maybe to choruses, I start getting frustrated. I'll often start playing half notes or whole notes over the form. The read the room comment is great, and intentionality is HUGE. If you're intentional, then you won't take a billion choruses. Cheers!
Hal Galper had a drummer that was over playing so the group slowly left the stage and left him alone up there.He thought they wanted him to do a drum solo.After about five minutes he caught on .
Hey, I really enjoyed this episode. As a beginner, it's something I've been wondering about. Your conversation was fluid, but also on-point. It was a nice mix of talking about it and showing examples of it. It was just fun to listen to - y'all are great musicians and great musical listeners, and this episode was beefy with music. And I think your passion for the subject also just made it engaging. Thanks for sharing!
ultimately i always listen to the dude on the kit. between the whole rhythm section there’s always a side conversation going while theyre presenting to the rest of the band. you guys give a great look into it. i love hearing stuff from pianists as a saxophone player, the theory talk between you two is really something special.
Hey yall! Pete, Ben Schenck here, UNO 1990-94. Yeah, tryna get out of Autumn Leaves... There's always the larger than life tonic resolution. But the thing I wanted to say is, audiences seem to love a strong ending. Give them a good ending and all else is forgiven. But that's not always a "ta-da." Some stories end with a period, some with an exclamation point. But some with a question mark and some with a dotdotdot.... But thanks fellas, I learned a lot. Heard about yall from the Finale-to-Dorico tech help guy!
The worst is when a musician doesn't look up. I've literally waved my drum sticks around in someone's peripheral vision until they looked up so i could tell them to stop rushing. You know who you are, Stuart
Please continue to think of accommodative cues. There are many people of different ability sets. As I listened to the pod, I thought of a bass player friend I play with weekly who is visually impaired, legally blind. Visually based cues are of course useless to him. Understanding the abilities of those playing in the set is also part of reading the room. And then adapting is just good manners.
Guys. Unfortunately for those of us at the mid-level or perhaps semi-pro level, the perfect communication and responses don’t always work as smoothly or ideally as you are suggesting. Each instance, however, has been or can be a learning experience (again for those of us in a forever learning mode). I’m sure throughout your careers/experiences you have come across a lesser skilled musician who didn’t do the expected or missed his cue or played the wrong thing on the bandstand. Hopefully, he learned something. Sometimes trial by fire can be a positive learning experience. Thoughts?
I could see context mattering quite a bit for that answer. That could be a good lead-in question for a follow-up video that also gets into the nitty gritty, just like this one, with more of these, "in case you missed it" examples that bring to light the specific, and often subtle, musical communications between jazz band members/jammers. Instructional videos often talk ABOUT the importance of communication, but it's rarer for them to get specific, and to provide useful examples. This video does all of that, and I'd love to see more, and your question, or something along those lines, could provide a good lead-in.
They literally addressed everything you’re mentioning here, especially that it’s not always perfect. But in answering the speed-pipe question, they just showed us that when you’re playing with other musicians whether it’s a duo, combo, ensemble; there are cues, very similar social cues. Now that they’ve taught us, it’s up to us to continue showing other musicians who are not paying attention. Whether it’s a kind suggestion or…”The Charlie Parker Cymbal Toss To The Head!” I was lucky enough to learn all of this in high school by a very strict jazz pianist/ensemble director. He was more like a gym teacher and he would yell at us to pay attention to the other musicians. In other words, be aware of your surroundings and show respect to the other players. Through out the years I’ve seen how giving the other musicians the respect they deserve, in the collective music making process together, goes a long way. I guess that teacher was the trial by fire.
I’m glad they are sharing how it happens at their level because that’s what they know. If they were to try and base it to mid level musicians they would not be confident tell their side of how this works. Also this gives those mid level a chance to get the opinions of the pros and change how they are going out it
@@redgreen__ The process of learning it starts at the early levels. You may have to speak out loud to your colleagues in the beginning, let them know what you want and need, let them know what your physical cues will be during rehearsal or when you get to a jam session and the musicians aren’t playing with awareness - speak up! You have to speak up with your mouth and words FIRST and then as your comfort with each other starts to gel, it will be less talking and more eye contact. More subtle head nods, more LESS THAN SUBTLE head nods. Truth be told, it’s never perfect, but it gets better. And just as they mentioned that sometimes you may have to let someone go who is stepping all over everyone with their solos and showing no awareness outside of themselves, maybe - after communicating with a group of musicians who aren’t doing that or refusing to communicate, walk away from that group/session. This is not just happening at Peter and Adam’s level, it’s happening at most jam session. To be fair, I’m in NY so there’s a pretty deep groove of what the ensemble social cues are. But I learned in small town Connecticut and it was the same there because playing together in an ensemble (jazz or classical for that matter), people need to respect each other. That’s what this is about. Just like practicing takes time, so does this.
You have to actively work on these elements in your practice sessions. At least that’s what my band does, it helps to make it a thing that everyone has to be aware and responsible for. It gets easier.
In comedy improv you're supposed to react anything with 'Yes... and?'. i.e hearing what they are saying and react to it. There's lots of ways to say yes, it doesn't just mean parroting or following blindly. I think of Miles and Herbie and Wayne Shorter, there was a LOT of tension in those performances, but you can hear the listening is on another level.
Anytime i get a duo, trio, or quartet gig - my Berkeley buddy always pulls in the best cats. Oh then I end up looking like a genius pianist (which I am FAR from). They build me up.😂😂😂
In the context of musical nonverbal communication, was the musical genius of Stevie wonder and ray charles enhanced from their blindness or in spite of their blindness.
Peter's "I got you" accompaniment was hilarious
Love this topic! I'm a bass player, and I have jam session ptsd. Oof. Calling a tune, and six tenor players line up. If they don't limit themselves to maybe to choruses, I start getting frustrated. I'll often start playing half notes or whole notes over the form. The read the room comment is great, and intentionality is HUGE. If you're intentional, then you won't take a billion choruses. Cheers!
Lol also a bass player who plays whole notes in frustration here
Hal Galper had a drummer that was over playing so the group slowly left the stage and left him alone up there.He thought they wanted him to do a drum solo.After about five minutes he caught on .
Hey, I really enjoyed this episode. As a beginner, it's something I've been wondering about. Your conversation was fluid, but also on-point. It was a nice mix of talking about it and showing examples of it. It was just fun to listen to - y'all are great musicians and great musical listeners, and this episode was beefy with music. And I think your passion for the subject also just made it engaging. Thanks for sharing!
ultimately i always listen to the dude on the kit. between the whole rhythm section there’s always a side conversation going while theyre presenting to the rest of the band. you guys give a great look into it. i love hearing stuff from pianists as a saxophone player, the theory talk between you two is really something special.
I heard Beatrice immediately, but only because you guys introduced me to this tune. I love it. It’s my favorite tune now. So bittersweet
Thanks a ton for answering my questions! You guys are true saints!
This is fire 🔥
Could you guys do an episode on Michel Camilo’s playing? Thank’s for all the great content, it’s always a pleasure listening to you guys!
I feel spoilt just having this podcast. It's so good. Thanks a million! 😄
Thanks for acknowledging jam session bass player plight, great playing 👍
Hey yall!
Pete, Ben Schenck here, UNO 1990-94.
Yeah, tryna get out of Autumn Leaves... There's always the larger than life tonic resolution.
But the thing I wanted to say is, audiences seem to love a strong ending. Give them a good ending and all else is forgiven.
But that's not always a "ta-da."
Some stories end with a period, some with an exclamation point. But some with a question mark and some with a dotdotdot....
But thanks fellas, I learned a lot. Heard about yall from the Finale-to-Dorico tech help guy!
The worst is when a musician doesn't look up. I've literally waved my drum sticks around in someone's peripheral vision until they looked up so i could tell them to stop rushing.
You know who you are, Stuart
great playing as usual lads!
As a suggestion : the album In my element of robert glasper is one of my favourite. Would be so hyped to hear your analyse on it!
Please continue to think of accommodative cues. There are many people of different ability sets. As I listened to the pod, I thought of a bass player friend I play with weekly who is visually impaired, legally blind. Visually based cues are of course useless to him. Understanding the abilities of those playing in the set is also part of reading the room. And then adapting is just good manners.
Guys. Unfortunately for those of us at the mid-level or perhaps semi-pro level, the perfect communication and responses don’t always work as smoothly or ideally as you are suggesting. Each instance, however, has been or can be a learning experience (again for those of us in a forever learning mode). I’m sure throughout your careers/experiences you have come across a lesser skilled musician who didn’t do the expected or missed his cue or played the wrong thing on the bandstand. Hopefully, he learned something. Sometimes trial by fire can be a positive learning experience. Thoughts?
I could see context mattering quite a bit for that answer. That could be a good lead-in question for a follow-up video that also gets into the nitty gritty, just like this one, with more of these, "in case you missed it" examples that bring to light the specific, and often subtle, musical communications between jazz band members/jammers. Instructional videos often talk ABOUT the importance of communication, but it's rarer for them to get specific, and to provide useful examples. This video does all of that, and I'd love to see more, and your question, or something along those lines, could provide a good lead-in.
They literally addressed everything you’re mentioning here, especially that it’s not always perfect. But in answering the speed-pipe question, they just showed us that when you’re playing with other musicians whether it’s a duo, combo, ensemble; there are cues, very similar social cues. Now that they’ve taught us, it’s up to us to continue showing other musicians who are not paying attention. Whether it’s a kind suggestion or…”The Charlie Parker Cymbal Toss To The Head!” I was lucky enough to learn all of this in high school by a very strict jazz pianist/ensemble director. He was more like a gym teacher and he would yell at us to pay attention to the other musicians. In other words, be aware of your surroundings and show respect to the other players. Through out the years I’ve seen how giving the other musicians the respect they deserve, in the collective music making process together, goes a long way. I guess that teacher was the trial by fire.
I’m glad they are sharing how it happens at their level because that’s what they know. If they were to try and base it to mid level musicians they would not be confident tell their side of how this works. Also this gives those mid level a chance to get the opinions of the pros and change how they are going out it
@@redgreen__ The process of learning it starts at the early levels. You may have to speak out loud to your colleagues in the beginning, let them know what you want and need, let them know what your physical cues will be during rehearsal or when you get to a jam session and the musicians aren’t playing with awareness - speak up! You have to speak up with your mouth and words FIRST and then as your comfort with each other starts to gel, it will be less talking and more eye contact. More subtle head nods, more LESS THAN SUBTLE head nods. Truth be told, it’s never perfect, but it gets better. And just as they mentioned that sometimes you may have to let someone go who is stepping all over everyone with their solos and showing no awareness outside of themselves, maybe - after communicating with a group of musicians who aren’t doing that or refusing to communicate, walk away from that group/session. This is not just happening at Peter and Adam’s level, it’s happening at most jam session. To be fair, I’m in NY so there’s a pretty deep groove of what the ensemble social cues are. But I learned in small town Connecticut and it was the same there because playing together in an ensemble (jazz or classical for that matter), people need to respect each other. That’s what this is about. Just like practicing takes time, so does this.
You have to actively work on these elements in your practice sessions. At least that’s what my band does, it helps to make it a thing that everyone has to be aware and responsible for. It gets easier.
In comedy improv you're supposed to react anything with 'Yes... and?'. i.e hearing what they are saying and react to it. There's lots of ways to say yes, it doesn't just mean parroting or following blindly. I think of Miles and Herbie and Wayne Shorter, there was a LOT of tension in those performances, but you can hear the listening is on another level.
super jazz episode
Agreement adhered
Your incredible fingers language is effectively communicated and easily understood. You're dangerous to my hear🤣🤣🤣🤣
Anytime i get a duo, trio, or quartet gig - my Berkeley buddy always pulls in the best cats. Oh then I end up looking like a genius pianist (which I am FAR from). They build me up.😂😂😂
HEY WHO THE HELLARE YOUU lmaoo
What Rhodes sound was that? Not Nord right?
pretty sure they use keyscape but i’m not sure
I been to shows where the sax player just didn't stop soloing.
😅
In the context of musical nonverbal communication, was the musical genius of Stevie wonder and ray charles enhanced from their blindness or in spite of their blindness.
2:32
And, on a more serious note, 16:15
Son of a 20:46
28:30 you did not....
So true lol
Came here to see if anyone caught it
Elliot SMITH 21 oct 2003
Rip to one of the greats
@@Tuckermoore ❤️