I like both you guys dedication to excellence, it really shows in the conversation, solving problems in the v twin community since it seems that a lot of shops just slap em together and call it good or dealerships tell us " that's normal" when someone like me that has worked on engines and transmissions for almost 50 years now, I know it's bs
It`s amazing how the technology has come so far in just over 100 years for bikes. my question is, with just the knowledge that the 2 of you have I sure hope your writing it down and even better passing it along to your children or apprentices you have working for you. You 2 remind me of the old sages with all the wisdom they had that everyone went to for answers to critical questions. You have more knowledge in your little finger then some of the so called techs that think they know it all.. I`m glade I have access to you guys. Thanks.
Thank you so much for the kind words and for supporting the effort with your membership. You are greatly appreciated sir. I hope that many will benefit and have a better motorcycle experience.
This is a awesome video. I love when someone can get into depth! I live for this stuff, I spend countless hours doing research because i can’t afford to try out different configurations. So getting to watch guys like this talk about motors is invaluable I appreciate you guys. This is from a self proclaimed engine nerd. I love when you guys talked about buying all the most expensive parts but they don’t necessarily work well together that’s where my buddies can’t understand why they spent twice as much as me and I’m still blowing by them! But while they’re watching football I’m doing research on engines LOL there can be one of the biggest sports stars in the world right now walked right by me and I wouldn’t know who it was but if it was one of these guys or Chris Rivas or Kevin from big Bear choppers or Dave Mackey (I’m from California) Really anybody that has a deep understanding of motors like this. That’s when I get starstruck! 🤘🏼🤘🏼🤘🏼
Well worth the time watching these 2 parts and knowing there is a viable alternative to the oem comp. I have used the Evo 49 tooth for several years and that made a positive gearing change. The Man O War sprocket is next.
I was recently looking at another (cheaper) comp but you made me realize that only having to replace the $40 cushions (rather than the whole piece) is probably the only argument you need to pull the trigger on the MOW, especially if you plan on putting the miles on. Always good to learn more about the big names and products in the business - thanks guys
Excellent video i have an issue with a sticky hydraulic tensioner...build is an 02 roadking with a 509 cam and conversion hydraulic cam plate from S&S runs great....it does exactly what the dark horse guy said at the beginning of the video....invaluble info...great vids keep it up !!!!!
Great content and info. I will be picking one up as soon as I can save up the bucks. I'm planning on keeping my 09 Superglide around for as long as I can still ride, 67 and still going strong.
I ride a 2019 FLHRXS (obligatory 114) for which I traded in a 2010 GL1800 (with Only 14,000 miles). It is one of four bikes (including a 2016 Ducati Hyperstrada). I have listened Twice to this two-part series on your channel because it is fascinating for a Rider who is not a Wrencher (and who bought an "Extended Service Plan" which is Official H-D parlance for extended warranty but the Lawyers...). Wow! You guys actually know a bunch.
Wow... Really love the precision you guys put in to motor and bottom end. Harley should take serious notes from you guys. Every time the make change that should be good, it effects other things in a bad way. I can see why custom builds keep you guys in business! 😄
lot of good info very informative for someone like me with little to no knowledge of a harley davidson engine ,and i see people breaking the stock Compensator, if mine blows i just buy one of these ,
During the 2020 Daytona BikeWeek I stopped by the Darkhorse Exhibit. I was so impressed by their products, especially the Man-O-War MotorSprocket. I know that the OEM Compensator unit sucks up so much torque and the 1 piece sprocket gives back that torque...but at the expense of excessive on wear and tear on the DriveTrain. The Man-O-War MotorSprocket filled that void. I purchased one along with a Rekluse Clutch and a Trask Clutch Basket. I was also impressed by their Crankshaft. But at this time, I just cant warrant that purchase. Also while talking with the DarkHorse Representative, I told him I was thinking about removing the Counter Balance and what his thoughts about that were. I was pleasently surprised by his positive reply. So while I had my engine torn down, I removed that unit.
Kevin, Love the Videos. I owe you for all the help and knowledge you have given me. I have a 107 with worked heads and a whole bunch of good stuff (DH MOW). At the recommendation of the guy who did the heads, I put on a 58MM HPI TB with 5.3 injectors and 1.8 intake runners that match the heads. Granted, I never ran it with anything smaller so who knows, but I still managed 120 HP 124 TQ even with a 2 into 2 VH longshot pipe which I know sucks and was not recommended. I'm putting a DD Fatcat on it soon and hope to pick up even more low end torque. But it really runs well. Maybe it would be even better with something smaller as I am not doubting your knowledge but for some reason it is working for my setup. It looks cool too which is always nice. Thanks again. LittleO
Great interview! My 07 RG ,built, strange noises coming from the primary turns out SE compensator crapping out as well as the crank is out by 20 thou So off to dark horse is my crank and a man o war comp is on its to vancouver canada 🇨🇦 thanks for sharing your knowledge it's appreciated Dave
This segment was better than going to a box office bonanza movie. I watched this soon after you put this live. I rewatch your segments regularly Kev as I sometimes need time to digest the info. The more I watch the more I understand. The more I understand, my appetite for new segments increases. I now realise I’m a Baxters Garage junkie now days. Sadly I live on the other side of the world. I’d love to find a builder I could have confidence in where I live. I really want to upgrade a bike that I will never sell. Kev I’d like to get in contact to investigate an option of an engine build and have it shipped. I’ve Tried your website but never had a reply. I know this must be a tech issue. Regards Jon
Thank you very much sir. Apologies that i missed your email. Please try again at kevin@protwin.com and reference your post here. So you can start investigating freight options...an engine weighs around 170lbs plus a pallet...so around 220-250 pounds. We can plan a build from there.
Stretched out in 2nd gear, near the max rpm, ka-boom! There's a hole in the front of my front cylinder! I guess if you bush the pistons to make up for too loose a fit ya done wrong...oversize wristpin mighta been a better choice. Live and learn, that was a long time ago in my '41 Indian chief. One hell of a bang though, ya don't forget. Rode that fer 18yrs, the most dependable American MC I ever had. Maximum speed, up hill or down; roughly 99mph!
Learning some stuff here, guys. Not so enamored with the Screamin' Eagle parts, now. Cam plate, the tensioners, probably others In my TC-103. Damn it, H-D, at those prices, really? So, I gotta pull the SE parts to avoid these issues, and do it again with quality aftermarket parts? Nutz!
Great videos just got a do to you week or so ago i’ll sit in the living room with my head phones on for hours listening to your videos when are these races at Laguna Seca going to happen
a timken brng that has end play is a brng that is hammering against its race. set them up so they just come off of preload with no endplay. it will offer the least rolling resistance.
This has been one of the most informative video I’ve seen yet. But, I still don’t know how you get neutral knock. I wish you would’ve focused more on that. I have it, and I’m worried about it. I thought it was my compensator but, you guys said it isn’t the cause. I’ve recently installed a Fuel Moto 110” w/ heads, into my ‘15 FLHXS. I’m making 117/130. What does cause it???
Well, a comp can absolutely cause a N knock...but not always. I’ve been doing some testing already, and am compiling empirical data on a hunch that the noise is coming from the stock transmissions, wear, and how HD designed them to deal with excessive gear backlash. I first noted that if a trans was new or recently rebuilt, the noise doesn’t happen and if it does, it’s very slight. Second, noticed that any bike I had installed a Baker trans in, was exceptionally quiet. Of course there is a history, including HD Service Bulletins, dating back to 2011 about neutral rattles as well....it has been a long going problem, some worse than others. I’ll have more data later, and predict the findings will be that the rattle a few are hearing with the DH Motor Sprocket, are hearing it because it’s only unmasking another issue and not the cause of the issue. I do feel that the issue with the trans, may be the root cause as to why comps fail as often as they do. They wear at an incredibly excessive rate. Remember, compensator problems didn’t exist commonly until after 2007….2006 and back was very reliable. 2007 is also the first year of the cruise drive 6spd. That cant be coincidence. An no matter the revision of the comp, they still wear very quickly when compared to 06 and earlier. This is also in part due to splines not being machined in centerline of sprocket shaft but that's another conversation. Regardless, thank you for the kind words sir. We appreciate you and look forward to doing business in the future.
again outstanding review, seems to be to me that in late 70s-80s a co. named rivera i belive there still around ,made 4 valve heads for big v twins, what happened. did they not work or did harley buy the paten
Feuling did a 4V evo head. We worked with another company on a Twin Cam variation back in 2005 give or take. Rivera had one as well. All were too expensive and the market wasnt really ready for it yet.
My name is David I live just outside of Nashville Tennessee I bought a 2005 road King custom had a lot of work done to it before ever took delivery of it had to rhinehart's drag racing pipes put on it screamin eagle drag racing fuel system stays 3 for the throttle body for the fuel injection system in the motorcycle 88,000 miles had no problems I did at 30,000 miles or 31 have to change timing chain tensioner I did not do it I put the SNS gear to gear cam in it been riding it ever since rides good I'm thinking about changing a few other things on it curious of what I should really be looking at
Awesome Show Kevin... both parts...:), anyways, getting back to that Dark Horse compensator ... I noticed you were toying with the unit there a bit and finally you had the two parts separated. So.... I also know there is a Pat' pending on the unit.... but I have to ask some Q's about it. The Hub: It looks like Al-Mag....or 7075-T6 ....( I'm just asking for those modders out there that may read this comment and then want to hard- coat anodize their Hub and Cover plate to say Black or whatever their tank colour is...open primary folks here.), or should they just have the cover plate anodized as an option. Good for sales if they can, lol. And Viton is a top notch elastomer. I'm guessing that its 90 Durometer, (Shore A) . Stay Safe.
Kevin, great discussion. I have a 2019 SGS. Would it benefit to do the Darkhorse Compensator on a stock 114 (slip on Cobra Neighbor Haters) Really enjoying your videos .Also nice to know your in Winder. Keep the great vids coming.
What would be better the zippers red shift cam 468 stage 2 or the screaming eagle stage 3 kit in my 2019 heritage 107 ??? Great videos an learning a lot from you 👍👍👍
I would have to steer you to this video to give you a better idea, but, if it were my decision between the two, the 468 hands down. If you decide to go that route, let me know. I can answer any questions to make sure its the right one for you and get the parts out to ya asap. Thanks.
@@KevinBaxter Thank you so much for responding to my question !! OK I really think I will go with the red shift 468 cam !! Right now I have the screaming eagle stage 2 torque kit an it's ok!!! But I want little bit more performance??? I just changed my intake to arlen ness monster sucker an changed my stock pipes to the cobra speedster slash downs which really did make little bit more of a difference !! If any more suggestions please let me know an thank you !!! I will be checking out yr website an thank you 👉👍🏆
When do you recommend someone upgrade their crankshaft vs true/weld/Timken their stock shaft? Consider the riding style: lower RPM range, cruising not touring and street (not track) use.
@KevinBaxter So did i mess up putting 64mm throttle body on a Low Rider S 117 (with woods wm8 22xe cam, jackpot riot exhaust, Arlen Ness monster sucker)? Hope not. Bike's in shop now and they just started working on it.
Excellent video! I have an 09 Trike and would like to know if there are different types of bumpers or just one type? Not sure if that was covered in the video. Also would like to know if there is anything special about the rotor or is the rotor just a stock unit with the compensator removed? TIA
2 types....one a little softer than the other but you would be fine with the standard ones. Stock unit with comp removed provided you have a rotor that does NOT have the integrated spring pack.
I wonder how much rotary movement is in the man o war sprocket. You mentioned the standard Harley one moving 1/4 turn, that was surprising. You didn’t mention the movement in the darkhorse one.
You guys mentioned throttle body’s being to big for your build . I have an 06 road glide tc88 I’m doing a 98” big bore kit with 585 ez start cams and super stock heads 89cc fueling performance cam plate and oil pump and I just ordered a 51mm hpi throttle body with 4.3 injectors with a d&d 2 in1 fat cat perforated baffle. The ? Is did I go to far by ordering the 51mm throttle body and 4.3 injectors. Did I go overboard with the throttle body and injectors should I cancel them and just run stock thanks for your constructive criticism and expertise. Thanks in advance and I enjoy your you tube channel
I'm a Triumph (Explorer) rider, so only have an Outsiders view of HD, but if seems to me that you guys are doing great things putting right things that should have been done right in the factory? HD engines aren't cutting edge (by an age) or particularly stressed. Their basics haven't changed much in an eon. Yet people pay a premium for the bike, for spares, for everything. Am I missing something? (I'm in the UK so might be)
Thanks for the kind words and pleasant candor sir. To respond...I believe it's truly a culture thing, put forth from our 60s and 70s counter culture. It's still here...and HD seems to personify that. To a large degree, I'm thankful that HD doesnt build a perfect motorcycle. Not doing so created a multi-million dollar aftermarket industry focused on improving on their products...which provides for a lot of families.
Dark horse are the best in their field. They are an example to me. I also repair crankshafts but in Russia inst: Motolomonosov Dark horse лучшие в своём деле. Они пример для меня. Я тоже ремонтирую коленвалы но в России inst:Motolomonosov
I'm in the process of starting a bottom end rebuild on a 2003 softail. Crankshaft. Timken. Ect...some of my issue might be in the counter balancers. The shop said we can go with or with out counter balancers and they can balance the crank accordingly. What's your opinion. Thanks
How bad are the comp eliminators on the crankshaft really. I’ve up graded from a 103 to a big bore 117 with an S&S crank. 11/1 compression 63 mm Throttle body , 525 injectors and cycleroma cam heads ported and polished 2/1 shorty exhaust. Would like to go to a 35 tooth your thoughts
if i have .008 runout on the end of a pinion shaft, what sort of condition on the sprocket shaft would make my .008 acceptable?.. .008 runout, 180 degrees & at the opposite end of the crankshaft from my runout measurements isnt gonna help. please explain.
I’m considering upgrading to the dark horse man o war compensator. My question is: I have a 2017, FLTRU with a 107 stage 2 SE cam. Does the 34T M8 kits include all spacers needed or will additional spacers need to be purchased. TIA.
hows it going i have a 05 88 motor im going with 100'' s&s bore kit. 570 cams s&s.s&s push rods. 89 cc s&s heads, screaming eagle cam tensioner kit and oil pump. should i replace the crank? and what do you think of my set up? do you reamend anything else? i should do thank you love your videos
sounds like a good setup to me. those early 4" cranks were pretty good. i would only replace it if it needs it. check rods, total runout. if all is well, leave it. if you have a ton of miles on it, that may be another story though. thanks for watching!
Kevin Baxter yeah the runout was good i was told the motor has 30 thousand miles i bought a used motor because a Cam bearing went out on mine so I bought that motor I’m going to rebuild it with all the parts I just told you OK thank you sir thank you very much for your Opinion I really appreciate it. 👍👍👍
Do I need to buy a rotor if I switch out to darkhorse or baker compensator on a 2010 FLHX, I’m not sure what rotor I have stock, but my compensator is definitely failing, so upgrade is not an option, just ensuring I have what parts I need before disassembly. Any points tips or tricks would be greatly appreciated. I am very tech savvy and I’m mechanically inclined, if able to help out with some tips, I’d greatly appreciate it.
i have a twincame 2011 electra glide onle 36213 ml on it how much would cost to do the botom end with the crankshaft and comps from darkhorse crankworks
I have a 2017 Triglide and my compensator is bad at only 12,000 miles. I’m thinking about a solid sprocket for it. I don’t run it hard and mostly highways but I do get on smaller backroads now and then. What do you feel would be best for me a solid sprocket or stay with Oem?
The hydraulic tensioner mentioned was stock harley ones that auto adjust correct ? Curious if this dark horse compensator I’d like to buy would do ok with a Oregon hot bike auto adjusting hydraulic tensioner? Or if you know anything about Oregon hot bike hydraulic auto tensioner ?
I’ve already bought Oregon hot bike tensioner and was curious if I should do a baker compensator or a dark horse compensator. I love the idea of going with one that you can rebuild instead of replacing! I have a 2010 fatboy lo 96ci stock motor just trying to upgrade faulty parts and possibly a upgraded cam at the most to be done to my bike. If you could possibly advise me a decent cam that you’d recommend that would do well with stock motor. Thank you for any help you can be.
those are good tensioners. have used them for almost 10 years off and on. i would say weigh pros and cons of each. ive installed many of both. I personally like the DH design better at this point but up until it came out, I used Baker on just about everything.
@@KevinBaxter sir I've spoken to pete,, the teeth count on dark horse compensator,, for M8.. no 32 yet so. I will use the 34 t I recieved from yall.. Merry Christmas & may God Bless.!
Hi there, brilliant vid. Sorry, I'm a little late to the party. I've got a 2011 wide glide, want to put the manowar compensator in for peace of mind. I'd like to be able to make my final gearing slightly lower over all, are there different options for the number of teeth. The open road speed limit here (NZ) is 60mph, 6th gear seems a little tall on my stock 96.
OK guys, what do you think about a solid gear drive plate between the crank and clutch basket? And if you would machine one that uses the dark horse compensator, how many billions could I make by designing such a thing?😂😂😂 But seriously, think about it and maybe I can help with the design. Engineer to engineer👍🤙
Hi Kevin, how noisey are they ? - im running a 117ci S&S crank 135 hp / 134 t in a FXDLS, will i need to upgrade the standard clutch ? and what tooth version will i need to run
They need to talk about how Darkhorse Crankworks doesn't have any parts for Harley's under year 2007. I'm thinking why would they not support 1999- 2006 ?
Not exactly sure what you mean. If you are referring to the fact they dont have fitment for earlier motor sprockets, it's because the stock ones, and stock replacements, work quite well. I'm not aware of any company that offers an application for earlier years that's really any different that the stock one.
@@KevinBaxter ... I visited their web site and didn't find any parts at all for under 2006 Harleys . I emailed them and got a reply saying "no they don't make anything for early models . 1999-2006 So I how you understand me now . You should visit their web site and see for yourself
the sprocket shaft center has to be accurate to establish stroke length. you guys that are recutting a center in the sprocket shaft are making a mess. whats not on center are the splines that are broached on the od... please leave the centers alone
@@KevinBaxter How long can I expect the cushions to last before they need to be replaced , I have a 2013 Street Glide which is now a 110 and am not an aggressive rider (only when needed ) Thanks
@@KevinBaxter Aren't the aftermarket big inchers (S&S, Ultima, etc) based on the Evo design? I don't know if they use the Evo stock compensator, I'm thinking they'd benefit?
There’s nothing like listening to Kevin Baxter at work. Love the contact my man.
I like both you guys dedication to excellence, it really shows in the conversation, solving problems in the v twin community since it seems that a lot of shops just slap em together and call it good or dealerships tell us " that's normal" when someone like me that has worked on engines and transmissions for almost 50 years now, I know it's bs
I've learned so much from these videos.. I really can't thank you enough. I've watched them 2 times now through and through.. Thank you so much.
Glad you like them! Youre welcome
It`s amazing how the technology has come so far in just over 100 years for bikes. my question is, with just the knowledge that the 2 of you have I sure hope your writing it down and even better passing it along to your children or apprentices you have working for you. You 2 remind me of the old sages with all the wisdom they had that everyone went to for answers to critical questions. You have more knowledge in your little finger then some of the so called techs that think they know it all.. I`m glade I have access to you guys. Thanks.
Thank you so much for the kind words and for supporting the effort with your membership. You are greatly appreciated sir. I hope that many will benefit and have a better motorcycle experience.
That was a great show. Love learning thanks Darkhorse and Kevin Baxter
Thank you. Sorry for the technical glitches. Will get things sorted out. I appreciate you watching.
Great video.. The Darkhorse comp. is simple genius.. Harley got caught with their pants down on that one.
This is a awesome video. I love when someone can get into depth! I live for this stuff, I spend countless hours doing research because i can’t afford to try out different configurations. So getting to watch guys like this talk about motors is invaluable I appreciate you guys. This is from a self proclaimed engine nerd. I love when you guys talked about buying all the most expensive parts but they don’t necessarily work well together that’s where my buddies can’t understand why they spent twice as much as me and I’m still blowing by them! But while they’re watching football I’m doing research on engines LOL there can be one of the biggest sports stars in the world right now walked right by me and I wouldn’t know who it was but if it was one of these guys or Chris Rivas or Kevin from big Bear choppers or Dave Mackey (I’m from California) Really anybody that has a deep understanding of motors like this. That’s when I get starstruck! 🤘🏼🤘🏼🤘🏼
Thank you Preston.
OK so I put in a high oppression Pistons by sands Making .cvo 110 a 117 I also.put in t Dazy staft
Holy cow I learned a ton from this video, and increased my understanding of the bottom end a bunch. I appreciate it!
Well worth the time watching these 2 parts and knowing there is a viable alternative to the oem comp. I have used the Evo 49 tooth for several years and that made a positive gearing change. The Man O War sprocket is next.
I was recently looking at another (cheaper) comp but you made me realize that only having to replace the $40 cushions (rather than the whole piece) is probably the only argument you need to pull the trigger on the MOW, especially if you plan on putting the miles on. Always good to learn more about the big names and products in the business - thanks guys
Excellent video i have an issue with a sticky hydraulic tensioner...build is an 02 roadking with a 509 cam and conversion hydraulic cam plate from S&S runs great....it does exactly what the dark horse guy said at the beginning of the video....invaluble info...great vids keep it up !!!!!
Two great videos! John, Pat, Tom and all the guys at Darkhorse and Hoban Brothers are great to work with!
For sure. Thanks!
Wow! Fascinating stuff. I wish you guys were my next door neighbors.
Great content and info. I will be picking one up as soon as I can save up the bucks. I'm planning on keeping my 09 Superglide around for as long as I can still ride, 67 and still going strong.
I ride a 2019 FLHRXS (obligatory 114) for which I traded in a 2010 GL1800 (with Only 14,000 miles). It is one of four bikes (including a 2016 Ducati Hyperstrada). I have listened Twice to this two-part series on your channel because it is fascinating for a Rider who is not a Wrencher (and who bought an "Extended Service Plan" which is Official H-D parlance for extended warranty but the Lawyers...). Wow! You guys actually know a bunch.
thanks for the kind words sir and for subscribing/watching. best of luck to you and welcome to the HD world!
Wow...
Really love the precision you guys put in to motor and bottom end. Harley should take serious notes from you guys. Every time the make change that should be good, it effects other things in a bad way. I can see why custom builds keep you guys in business! 😄
thank you sir.
Good stuff guys , getting ready to put dark horse crank in my 107 . Lot of good info 🤙🏻
lot of good info very informative for someone like me with little to no knowledge of a harley davidson engine ,and i see people breaking the stock Compensator, if mine blows i just buy one of these ,
Glad you enjoyed it
Thank you guys,, ordered the dark horse compensator today,, 32 tooth. Hope it will help with my 'fat' bike & me,, in these hills of Texas.a
Lots of great info!! Thanks and be blessed, brothers!!
Same to you!
During the 2020 Daytona BikeWeek I stopped by the Darkhorse Exhibit. I was so impressed by their products, especially the Man-O-War MotorSprocket. I know that the OEM Compensator unit sucks up so much torque and the 1 piece sprocket gives back that torque...but at the expense of excessive on wear and tear on the DriveTrain. The Man-O-War MotorSprocket filled that void. I purchased one along with a Rekluse Clutch and a Trask Clutch Basket. I was also impressed by their Crankshaft. But at this time, I just cant warrant that purchase. Also while talking with the DarkHorse Representative, I told him I was thinking about removing the Counter Balance and what his thoughts about that were. I was pleasently surprised by his positive reply. So while I had my engine torn down, I removed that unit.
I could watch Part 3,4,5,6,7,8,9 Keep going
Kevin, Love the Videos. I owe you for all the help and knowledge you have given me.
I have a 107 with worked heads and a whole bunch of good stuff (DH MOW). At the recommendation of the guy who did the heads, I put on a 58MM HPI TB with 5.3 injectors and 1.8 intake runners that match the heads. Granted, I never ran it with anything smaller so who knows, but I still managed 120 HP 124 TQ even with a 2 into 2 VH longshot pipe which I know sucks and was not recommended. I'm putting a DD Fatcat on it soon and hope to pick up even more low end torque. But it really runs well. Maybe it would be even better with something smaller as I am not doubting your knowledge but for some reason it is working for my setup. It looks cool too which is always nice.
Thanks again.
LittleO
Great interview! My 07 RG ,built, strange noises coming from the primary turns out SE compensator crapping out as well as the crank is out by 20 thou
So off to dark horse is my crank and a man o war comp is on its to vancouver canada 🇨🇦 thanks for sharing your knowledge it's appreciated
Dave
the new style compensator sprocket (red plastic one)reminds me of the front pulley on the 1980 Sturgis primary
belt drive set up
This segment was better than going to a box office bonanza movie. I watched this soon after you put this live.
I rewatch your segments regularly Kev as I sometimes need time to digest the info. The more I watch the more I understand. The more I understand, my appetite for new segments increases. I now realise I’m a Baxters Garage junkie now days. Sadly I live on the other side of the world. I’d love to find a builder I could have confidence in where I live. I really want to upgrade a bike that I will never sell. Kev I’d like to get in contact to investigate an option of an engine build and have it shipped. I’ve Tried your website but never had a reply. I know this must be a tech issue. Regards Jon
Thank you very much sir. Apologies that i missed your email. Please try again at kevin@protwin.com and reference your post here. So you can start investigating freight options...an engine weighs around 170lbs plus a pallet...so around 220-250 pounds. We can plan a build from there.
Stretched out in 2nd gear, near the max rpm, ka-boom! There's a hole in the front of my front cylinder! I guess if you bush the pistons to make up for too loose a fit ya done wrong...oversize wristpin mighta been a better choice.
Live and learn, that was a long time ago in my '41 Indian chief. One hell of a bang though, ya don't forget.
Rode that fer 18yrs, the most dependable American MC I ever had.
Maximum speed, up hill or down; roughly 99mph!
hey you should show how to rebuild a dork horse compensator might be helpful thanks.
Learning some stuff here, guys. Not so enamored with the Screamin' Eagle parts, now. Cam plate, the tensioners, probably others In my TC-103. Damn it, H-D, at those prices, really? So, I gotta pull the SE parts to avoid these issues, and do it again with quality aftermarket parts? Nutz!
Great videos just got a do to you week or so ago i’ll sit in the living room with my head phones on for hours listening to your videos when are these races at Laguna Seca going to happen
awesome man...thanks!!
Wish wee had shops like this jn N Idaho.
Awsome video love the education
$515. plus shipping as of today for the comp eliminator, I am about to order one
One would think the engine case would hold crankshaft true but I reckon wear would take toll after awhile.
a timken brng that has end play is a brng that is hammering against its race. set them up so they just come off of preload with no endplay. it will offer the least rolling resistance.
Also a pro clutch just got installed
This has been one of the most informative video I’ve seen yet. But, I still don’t know how you get neutral knock. I wish you would’ve focused more on that. I have it, and I’m worried about it. I thought it was my compensator but, you guys said it isn’t the cause. I’ve recently installed a Fuel Moto 110” w/ heads, into my ‘15 FLHXS. I’m making 117/130. What does cause it???
Well, a comp can absolutely cause a N knock...but not always. I’ve been doing some testing already, and am compiling empirical data on a hunch that the noise is coming from the stock transmissions, wear, and how HD designed them to deal with excessive gear backlash. I first noted that if a trans was new or recently rebuilt, the noise doesn’t happen and if it does, it’s very slight. Second, noticed that any bike I had installed a Baker trans in, was exceptionally quiet. Of course there is a history, including HD Service Bulletins, dating back to 2011 about neutral rattles as well....it has been a long going problem, some worse than others.
I’ll have more data later, and predict the findings will be that the rattle a few are hearing with the DH Motor Sprocket, are hearing it because it’s only unmasking another issue and not the cause of the issue. I do feel that the issue with the trans, may be the root cause as to why comps fail as often as they do. They wear at an incredibly excessive rate.
Remember, compensator problems didn’t exist commonly until after 2007….2006 and back was very reliable. 2007 is also the first year of the cruise drive 6spd. That cant be coincidence. An no matter the revision of the comp, they still wear very quickly when compared to 06 and earlier. This is also in part due to splines not being machined in centerline of sprocket shaft but that's another conversation.
Regardless, thank you for the kind words sir. We appreciate you and look forward to doing business in the future.
Great info
Glad it was helpful!
again outstanding review, seems to be to me that in late 70s-80s a co. named rivera i belive there still around ,made 4 valve heads for big v twins, what happened. did they not work or did harley buy the paten
Feuling did a 4V evo head. We worked with another company on a Twin Cam variation back in 2005 give or take. Rivera had one as well. All were too expensive and the market wasnt really ready for it yet.
@@KevinBaxter yes I remember fueling also had made 4 valve heads, $2,000 or so for a set. tks see yall soon.
My name is David I live just outside of Nashville Tennessee I bought a 2005 road King custom had a lot of work done to it before ever took delivery of it had to rhinehart's drag racing pipes put on it screamin eagle drag racing fuel system stays 3 for the throttle body for the fuel injection system in the motorcycle 88,000 miles had no problems I did at 30,000 miles or 31 have to change timing chain tensioner I did not do it I put the SNS gear to gear cam in it been riding it ever since rides good I'm thinking about changing a few other things on it curious of what I should really be looking at
Awesome Show Kevin... both parts...:), anyways, getting back to that Dark Horse compensator ... I noticed you were toying with the unit there a bit and finally you had the two parts separated. So.... I also know there is a Pat' pending on the unit.... but I have to ask some Q's about it. The Hub: It looks like Al-Mag....or 7075-T6 ....( I'm just asking for those modders out there that may read this comment and then want to hard- coat anodize their Hub and Cover plate to say Black or whatever their tank colour is...open primary folks here.), or should they just have the cover plate anodized as an option. Good for sales if they can, lol.
And Viton is a top notch elastomer. I'm guessing that its 90 Durometer, (Shore A) .
Stay Safe.
Kevin, great discussion. I have a 2019 SGS. Would it benefit to do the Darkhorse Compensator on a stock 114 (slip on Cobra Neighbor Haters)
Really enjoying your videos .Also nice to know your in Winder. Keep the great vids coming.
What would be better the zippers red shift cam 468 stage 2 or the screaming eagle stage 3 kit in my 2019 heritage 107 ??? Great videos an learning a lot from you 👍👍👍
I would have to steer you to this video to give you a better idea, but, if it were my decision between the two, the 468 hands down. If you decide to go that route, let me know. I can answer any questions to make sure its the right one for you and get the parts out to ya asap. Thanks.
@@KevinBaxter Thank you so much for responding to my question !! OK I really think I will go with the red shift 468 cam !! Right now I have the screaming eagle stage 2 torque kit an it's ok!!! But I want little bit more performance??? I just changed my intake to arlen ness monster sucker an changed my stock pipes to the cobra speedster slash downs which really did make little bit more of a difference !! If any more suggestions please let me know an thank you !!! I will be checking out yr website an thank you 👉👍🏆
That sprocket looks like it can work like a harmonious bal.
Cush drives have been around forever. Hell, there are many wheel sprockets with "rubbers."
When do you recommend someone upgrade their crankshaft vs true/weld/Timken their stock shaft? Consider the riding style: lower RPM range, cruising not touring and street (not track) use.
Buying parts and putting them on as one thing but really understanding how they all work together is a whole different animal
@KevinBaxter So did i mess up putting 64mm throttle body on a Low Rider S 117 (with woods wm8 22xe cam, jackpot riot exhaust, Arlen Ness monster sucker)? Hope not. Bike's in shop now and they just started working on it.
Excellent video! I have an 09 Trike and would like to know if there are different types of bumpers or just one type? Not sure if that was covered in the video. Also would like to know if there is anything special about the rotor or is the rotor just a stock unit with the compensator removed? TIA
2 types....one a little softer than the other but you would be fine with the standard ones. Stock unit with comp removed provided you have a rotor that does NOT have the integrated spring pack.
The tech in the primary is something simular to what Cummins uses to cut down on wear and noise in their front engine timing gears.
Sorry I mean compensator
exactly. im surprised it took this long for something like this to make its way to this use. not a new concept, but a new application. thanks
I wonder how much rotary movement is in the man o war sprocket. You mentioned the standard Harley one moving 1/4 turn, that was surprising. You didn’t mention the movement in the darkhorse one.
You guys mentioned throttle body’s being to big for your build . I have an 06 road glide tc88 I’m doing a 98” big bore kit with 585 ez start cams and super stock heads 89cc fueling performance cam plate and oil pump and I just ordered a 51mm hpi throttle body with 4.3 injectors with a d&d 2 in1 fat cat perforated baffle. The ? Is did I go to far by ordering the 51mm throttle body and 4.3 injectors. Did I go overboard with the throttle body and injectors should I cancel them and just run stock thanks for your constructive criticism and expertise. Thanks in advance and I enjoy your you tube channel
I'm a Triumph (Explorer) rider, so only have an Outsiders view of HD, but if seems to me that you guys are doing great things putting right things that should have been done right in the factory? HD engines aren't cutting edge (by an age) or particularly stressed. Their basics haven't changed much in an eon. Yet people pay a premium for the bike, for spares, for everything. Am I missing something? (I'm in the UK so might be)
Thanks for the kind words and pleasant candor sir. To respond...I believe it's truly a culture thing, put forth from our 60s and 70s counter culture. It's still here...and HD seems to personify that. To a large degree, I'm thankful that HD doesnt build a perfect motorcycle. Not doing so created a multi-million dollar aftermarket industry focused on improving on their products...which provides for a lot of families.
Dark horse are the best in their field. They are an example to me. I also repair crankshafts but in Russia inst: Motolomonosov
Dark horse лучшие в своём деле. Они пример для меня. Я тоже ремонтирую коленвалы но в России inst:Motolomonosov
Would springs and rollers like an oclutch be possible (compensator)
When balancing cranks what are the different balance factors that are used for different application?
With a power vision tuner
I'm in the process of starting a bottom end rebuild on a 2003 softail. Crankshaft. Timken. Ect...some of my issue might be in the counter balancers. The shop said we can go with or with out counter balancers and they can balance the crank accordingly. What's your opinion. Thanks
I bought a used 05 rk 95 inch.s&s gears set is all i know,runs well..i often wonder to what level it was done.any ideas?
How bad are the comp eliminators on the crankshaft really. I’ve up graded from a 103 to a big bore 117 with an S&S crank. 11/1 compression 63 mm Throttle body , 525 injectors and cycleroma cam heads ported and polished 2/1 shorty exhaust. Would like to go to a 35 tooth your thoughts
🤯 you can remove a counter balance on a b motor? I hate the idea of that thing in my 96ci twincam.
Sure. Have done many. Crank needs to be right though.
Yes
Sorry google translate. Hello. It's been a long time how the dark horse compensator works?
Kevin, what compensator/sprockets do you use in a skunkworks custom build?
if i have .008 runout on the end of a pinion shaft, what sort of condition on the sprocket shaft would make my .008 acceptable?.. .008 runout, 180 degrees & at the opposite end of the crankshaft from my runout measurements isnt gonna help. please explain.
Are 05 95"rk's worth a crank upgrade?how to check if s&s gearset is all good.thnx
I’m considering upgrading to the dark horse man o war compensator. My question is: I have a 2017, FLTRU with a 107 stage 2 SE cam. Does the 34T M8 kits include all spacers needed or will additional spacers need to be purchased. TIA.
hows it going i have a 05 88 motor im going with 100'' s&s bore kit. 570 cams s&s.s&s push rods. 89 cc s&s heads, screaming eagle cam tensioner kit and oil pump. should i replace the crank? and what do you think of my set up? do you reamend anything else? i should do thank you love your videos
sounds like a good setup to me. those early 4" cranks were pretty good. i would only replace it if it needs it. check rods, total runout. if all is well, leave it. if you have a ton of miles on it, that may be another story though. thanks for watching!
Kevin Baxter yeah the runout was good i was told the motor has 30 thousand miles i bought a used motor because a Cam bearing went out on mine so I bought that motor I’m going to rebuild it with all the parts I just told you OK thank you sir thank you very much for your Opinion I really appreciate it. 👍👍👍
Do I need to buy a rotor if I switch out to darkhorse or baker compensator on a 2010 FLHX, I’m not sure what rotor I have stock, but my compensator is definitely failing, so upgrade is not an option, just ensuring I have what parts I need before disassembly. Any points tips or tricks would be greatly appreciated. I am very tech savvy and I’m mechanically inclined, if able to help out with some tips, I’d greatly appreciate it.
Can I change bushing on the compensator with going the mechanic shop?
i have a twincame 2011 electra glide onle 36213 ml on it how much would cost to do the botom end with the crankshaft and comps from darkhorse crankworks
For quotes, please email me directly at kevin@protwin.com. I will be happy to help you with any questions on the project and options. thank you.
How much rotating weight is reduced using the black horse compensator?
good question...im not really sure. i'll see what i can find out. i can tell you it's much lighter...but not sure how much.
I have a 2017 Triglide and my compensator is bad at only 12,000 miles. I’m thinking about a solid sprocket for it. I don’t run it hard and mostly highways but I do get on smaller backroads now and then. What do you feel would be best for me a solid sprocket or stay with Oem?
How long do the rubber bushings last in the sprocket, My bike has a S&S 106 big bore hot set with stock heads?
will that compensator stop first gear clank or is that more of a clutch problem.
On a stock application and normal riding, how long do you expect the rubber cushions to last?
Can M8 Crank be run in a twincam?
From four cams to one cam to two cams to back to one cam H-D needs to make up it's damn mind..
The hydraulic tensioner mentioned was stock harley ones that auto adjust correct ? Curious if this dark horse compensator I’d like to buy would do ok with a Oregon hot bike auto adjusting hydraulic tensioner? Or if you know anything about Oregon hot bike hydraulic auto tensioner ?
I’ve already bought Oregon hot bike tensioner and was curious if I should do a baker compensator or a dark horse compensator. I love the idea of going with one that you can rebuild instead of replacing! I have a 2010 fatboy lo 96ci stock motor just trying to upgrade faulty parts and possibly a upgraded cam at the most to be done to my bike. If you could possibly advise me a decent cam that you’d recommend that would do well with stock motor. Thank you for any help you can be.
Also I have screaming eagle air intake
Vance Hines 2 to 2 big radius exhaust
Just curious on a cam size or kit I should go with for stage 2.
those are good tensioners. have used them for almost 10 years off and on. i would say weigh pros and cons of each. ive installed many of both. I personally like the DH design better at this point but up until it came out, I used Baker on just about everything.
What about the sprocket teeth
not sure i understand your question. in regards to what?
@@KevinBaxter sir I've spoken to pete,, the teeth count on dark horse compensator,, for M8.. no 32 yet so. I will use the 34 t I recieved from yall.. Merry Christmas & may God Bless.!
Hi there, brilliant vid. Sorry, I'm a little late to the party.
I've got a 2011 wide glide, want to put the manowar compensator in for peace of mind. I'd like to be able to make my final gearing slightly lower over all, are there different options for the number of teeth. The open road speed limit here (NZ) is 60mph, 6th gear seems a little tall on my stock 96.
OK guys, what do you think about a solid gear drive plate between the crank and clutch basket? And if you would machine one that uses the dark horse compensator, how many billions could I make by designing such a thing?😂😂😂
But seriously, think about it and maybe I can help with the design. Engineer to engineer👍🤙
Hi Kevin, how noisey are they ? - im running a 117ci S&S crank 135 hp / 134 t in a FXDLS, will i need to upgrade the standard clutch ? and what tooth version will i need to run
not noisy at all provided everything else is healthy. 34T for standard ratio, 32T for more torque multiplication. May not need it with that engine.
Thanks Kevin - Cheers Mate, I’ve hit up Darkhorse
They need to talk about how Darkhorse Crankworks doesn't have any parts for Harley's under year 2007.
I'm thinking why would they not support 1999- 2006 ?
Not exactly sure what you mean. If you are referring to the fact they dont have fitment for earlier motor sprockets, it's because the stock ones, and stock replacements, work quite well. I'm not aware of any company that offers an application for earlier years that's really any different that the stock one.
@@KevinBaxter ... I visited their web site and didn't find any parts at all for under 2006 Harleys . I emailed them and got a reply saying "no they don't
make anything for early models . 1999-2006 So I how you understand me now .
You should visit their web site and see for yourself
How much does the eitms beat on cranks and comps?
i always turn it off. cant say it "beats them up"....its just struggles to run.
im looking for a comp for a 03 Road King. Any recommendation for a replacement?
Install Darkhorse ManOWar. I’ve got 10k and it’s been good. Advertised as last comp you’ll need for life of bike. We’ll see. HD SE sucks.
Are all m8s counterbalance say like I want this 114 street glider
It's a 2021 street glide 114.
do they have a 25 tooth
no sir.
Turn the ads down a bit and your views will increase
I tried shortly after posting that...because its so long...TH-cam locked the ads in.
👍🏽
I call it a recipe.
the sprocket shaft center has to be accurate to establish stroke length. you guys that are recutting a center in the sprocket shaft are making a mess. whats not on center are the splines that are broached on the od... please leave the centers alone
I wonder If the Chinese are soon to copy this Comp..
$40 bucks to refurbish says it all guys.
sure beats 600 to buy a new one. they hit it out of the park with this thing.
@@KevinBaxter How long can I expect the cushions to last before they need to be replaced , I have a 2013 Street Glide which is now a 110 and am not an aggressive rider (only when needed ) Thanks
Great information; sound annoyingly out of sync.
Any chance of one to fit an Evo crank?
probably not any time soon. up to 2006, the stock comps worked very well.
@@KevinBaxter Aren't the aftermarket big inchers (S&S, Ultima, etc) based on the Evo design? I don't know if they use the Evo stock compensator, I'm thinking they'd benefit?
not really "based on" per se. even with built engines, stock worked great. for serious builds, belt drive with solid sprocket was the norm.
@@KevinBaxter Much obliged on the responses, sir!