Is This the BEST Mini Amp?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ค. 2024
- #AmpDyno #Amplifier #TPA3255
FOSI Audio V3
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If you change that skinny wire that you plugged into the $300 power supply to a much thicker wire like I did you will get an extra 82 w and it's panel will put out/ roughly 235 certified 243 uncertified on each Channel you have to change that wire it's too skinny for that much power
I have one of these. Cost £82 from fosi direct with the 48V supply 😊 it's very good for the money. Earlier today I played most of dj dropping bass arsenal album at very high volume on my tower speakers with Zero thermal issues or notable distortion.
Thanks for the review and tests. Can't wait to see the next iteration from Fosi and others. Seems like things keep getting better and better.
Your Mini Amp videos are one of my favourites as well. I´m somehow always very interested in these devices. Please keep on doing your fantastic job, pal!
14:00. The passthrough allows you to use either the RCA or the 3.5mm as input. It is essentially a Y cable
I always wonder about these little units and this one did well all things considered. I appreciate you taking a look at it and the video was great!
The TPA3255 chip itself is a dynamite product. It was originally developed for pro-audio, and sound reinforcement in powered speakers. You will find it in all kinds of places including high-end AV gear, ICEPower modules and even high end stereo equipment.
The concern is that a lot of these lower priced implementations are also exercises in price and corner cutting.
Still running my Crown Xli 1500's from back when they were 180 ea. Your test on those were great.
thx for the tour, its funny what design priorities have done. Of course most home amps are receivers where the power supply is incorporated in the chassis, because of whatever reasons led to the standard stereo component being that big.
the only problem i've had with this crop of mini amp is the pot used for volume goes crunchy within a year of all the ones i've tried....
The "Pre Out" 3.5mm jack is wired in parallel with the RCA jacks -- this is the same arrangement as in the Aiyima A07.
I have a little Grey fosi in my boombox I built for work. Gets signal from my old deck, a pioneer mvhs512bs, they power two pioneer pro 8s. They rock. Sound great and put out a bunch of sound. And mine the 160x2@4ohm
Bro!!! You’re like right down the road from me! Love your channel man!!!
Great advice! You always measure from the knob all the way back to the binding post.
Thanks Big D for all your great videos.
I actually bought Fosi Audio BT30D Pro after seeing other models on your channel, I chose BT30D Pro because it has a powerful sub channel and can also be used with active subwoofer and run at 2 ohms
I am looking to buy a 30D Pro and wish to learn if I can connect my active powered sub woofer and run the same. What shall be the connection wiring.
Also what can we use the Pre-out point for?
I have them Elacs (Tower version) in my Home Theater and absolutely love them! Upgraded everything around them but not felt the need to upgrade them yet. Fantastic bang for the buck!
I agree they remind me of B&W Speakers with their smooth sound. Absolutely a steal for the $$
I love these reviews good stuff big D. I like the orange knobs on the Fosi units. They should use Tiffany RCA's.
Great info regarding the 'pre-out.'
Bought a similar amp from fosi that has a sub level and freq knob on the front as well as bass and treble adjustments. I was skeptical because of the size of the amp overall but was pleasantly surprised at how much power it actually has. Powers two 25 year old sony towers no problem
I have the Douk Audio M1 Pro amp and I like how it has the RCA pre-out and it's controlled by the volume. Perfect for running my Sony SS-CS5 bookshelf speakers and my Sony SA-CS9 powered subwoofer. Sounds great!
В 4 квартале выйдет версия v3 с настоящим, регулируемым предварительным выходом.
I have a similar setup, for the subwoofer control, I installed a car LOC to get RCA output for subwoofer.
If you have a rca level knob you can send the signal through it and to the amp and a subwoofer so you can adjust the volume of both at the same time.
Very happy to watch your video like this type 😊
They need to come out with monoblock mini amplifier’s already.
I have been waiting for this!!!!!! This amp h as been sooo hyped
Nice job and congrats on that new power supply. They provide the voltage these micro chip amps need. I tried out this amp a while back and thought it sounded like crap. I could NOT get it to sound good. All things being equal, I swapped back to Douk Audio and the sound was cleaner. My point is, the Chinese "experiment with the market" ...so many of these type mini amplifiers out there. They use our reviews (videos) for product development. The best sounding ones are the 100w x 2 amps with the 24v max power input with the Texas Instruments chip. For most listening, 30 watts clean per channel is plenty loud. Hook up some high SPL PA/DJ speakers to these amplifiers and you'll get some cheap loud sound levels. I like the sound of most digital chip amps. Class D amps still sound off to me. Class AB sound the best. Your 2-ohm test at the end was COOL! Impressive. My problem/issue is finding a "quiet" 12vDC to 48v step up booster for my builds. Most introduce audible noise vs using a 120vAC adapter
The TPA3255 used in the V3, TB10D, BT20 and BT30, A07, A07pro and on and on, is not an experimental chip. Check the spec sheets... it is a very capable amplifier originally developed for pro-audio use but now also widely adopted in home theatre, high end stereo and lord only knows how many DIY boards. The TPA32x series is the next generation to the TPA31x series from Texas Instruments. They've added enhanced feedback and distortion control mechanisms that actually work.
The problems we encounter are mostly in 2 areas ...
1) The Chi-Amp market tends to underestimate their output filter designs. Often the series output coils saturate well before clipping occurs and oh boy do some of them get hot!
2) The control signals for the TPA32x series chips appear to be widely misunderstood. I've had issues with amplifiers that will not go in to RESET and remain active even when the front panel switch is n the off position. I've also noted that many of the DIY modules have the Clip and Protect LEDs in the always on state rather than having them dark unless there's a problem, which just destroys their utility as monitoring features.
All that said, I seriously doubt any of these chips have been aimed at the automotive market. Most of the features and requirements are far more indicative of home audio (TPA31x) and pro audio (TPA32x) targets. You may be able to quiet the boost converter but that's going to take some serious filtering at both audio and longwave RF frequencies.
Preout means it's before the fader (volume knob} so it is labelled correctly.
14:50 That all sounds correct for 48v 20a at 2 ohms. It is limited by the power supply max current and the resistor settings for the chip. You might have better luck at 2 ohms with the power supply set to between 32 volts and 36 volts and max 20 amps.
I did that with some of my Douk Audio mini digital amps. 10 amp vs 5 amp (36v adapter) sounded the best. With 48v, it didn't sound as good either
Man that little guy is quite impressive... great review as usual.
Those teeny-tiny power supply wires must be holding back current. I'd like to see if there's noticeable voltage drop at high loads.
There is, during sine wave testing... not so much on music where the average power is much lower.
I like these chip based amps, nice and small, decent power.
Love your videos. Keep up the great work!
I cannot think of a scenario where you would not want variable output. The amp is small and compact, perfect for desk use. If you want a 2.1 system where you adjust the volume as needed, the sub would stay at a non changing volume. How did that make sense in their design phase?????
Do they expect you to use the fixed line out to feed another amp for speakers in another room? That is more the landscape of a full A/V receiver. I find most of these low cost, direct from china, have all these weird compromises that make no sense like turn on/off pop, fixed outputs, or no line level output for a sub, etc.
I checked a couple other fossi amps with "pre out" jacks and those are variable.
I think, someone screwed up big time on the design of this one and forgot to make it variable.
Fosi Audio TB10D 600W TPA3255 I recently bought this for a bass shaker. Works incredibly well. Nice Bang for buck
Do yourself one small favour ... check the case temperature when you have it turned off ... If it's warm, the chances are the chip is still operational. There is a design flaw in the TB-10d that prevents it from going into the RESET, soft-off mode and the amplifier can actually play music while it's turned off. There are other problems as well... but they're not as apparent as this one.
Yes, I've notified Fosi about them and they claim they're working to fix them in the next version.
Speaker quality demonstrations on internet sources are funny . Take my word for it.
There is absolutely no win here. I don’t do it, why no demo? I do it..why demo?
I have the 3 Chanel one in my shop. It’s connected to a Polk psw124 directly since the plate amp blows in them and 2 mtx monitor 10” …. And my neighbor 2 houses down came and complained lol well time to add more power I guess!
Team BT30D. Crazy how good these little things are.
i like the astells but they sometimes dont work well, cayin is safer
That actually seems really cool
Big D rockin the V3!
Interesting But you might want to try Thicker gauge power wire when connected to lab power supply as the thinner factory wire may limit current and therefore power .also with the pre out you use the volume control on Fosi to set the balance / level between the mains and the sub and use to music device to raise /lower volume
It was about 12” of 16ga and sufficient for the voltage and current used
that should work nice and short . how much current did it draw off the lab supply ?@@wal
The BT 30 d pro is the one you want I have 2 in a 4.2 set up it's incredible !!
This seems interesting... I wish to learn the wire connections of how u got 4.2 system working on these... Pls Share
Three deal breakers on the V3 ...
1) The power switch on the volume control. It will be failure prone because it's passing the power supply current and it's rather inconvenient since you have to reset the volume every time you turn it on.
2) That fixed level output on the back. Lord knows why they would even include that since it's useless for anything except daisy chaining amplifiers and Y cables are often more convenient.
3) The Op-Amp sockets. They look like the good quality aero-space type but they are not. The gold coloured guides on the socket should act like a funnel directing the op-amp pins down into the contacts, but the inner edge of the guide is a flat surface and unless you get the pins started into the holes perfectly you will end up bending the pins on your chip and possibly destroying it. If you're rolling op-amps in this thing, take your time, use a magnifying glass and get all 8 pins started into the center holes, not just sitting on the gold coloured guides, before you even think about pressing it into place.
Fosi seems to be developing a reputation for good ideas but bad execution.
I've also run into design level issues with the TB-10D that I've notified them about and supplied corrections for. Currently, I'm waiting for them to let me know when the fixed version of the updated version will be available.
Good stuff Dereck
You do some great reiviews! Thanks. (I like tone controls) You have tested and heard the fosi audio bt20a pro as well. Is this V3 much better sounding? Thanks
Ok for the auxiliary out you haft to use RCA control knob to control the amplifier going to a sub
The big power supply was probably being limited by the micro thin wires you used to connect it to the amp. You should know that those baby wires can't effectively supply the 20 amp potential of the big power supply. It would have been great if you showed how may amps were being drawn from it under load, I'll bet that it was well below 10a.
Heck, that tiny chip amp alone has up to 17 amps of current limit, built in. Should be interesting to do that
How many amps do you think a PCB trace can carry? think about it
@@Synthematix That depends on many factors, but the highest I've seen stated was 450 amps. Regardless, that has nothing to do with my comment nor the limiting factors of an amplifier or its power supply.
D, Thank you. V3 with 40 clean watts is plenty. Best, D. From Stl.
Fosi Audio have a 240W 48V/5A GaN power supply now, for $30 more than the standard 48V/5A. Would love to see you test its power claims and put it up against the regular power supply.
Cheaper to buy two of these amps and just bi amp your speakers on the stock power supplies. You’ll never face a scenario where those extra few volts make a life changing difference in audio.
I liked this video and gave you a thumbs-up because I like the power supply😊 but when you're doing the sound quality test on the bookshelf speakers would you be able to show the watts that you're putting to the bookshelf speakers? it might not be easy to set up but just for curiosity's sake.
I will try to implement in future videos. Thanks for the feedback 👌
I see a common mistake in these comments about the power leads for these amplifiers.
These amplifiers are NOT for cars and they are NOT for driving super-bass rigs in your basement. These are a home HIFI amplifier for use with your PC, record player or, more commonly, your TV set.
The thing is that everyone is estimating the power leads as though the amp is going to draw it's full 20 amps continuously.... But that isn't how music behaves... The average power is actually quite low, even though you are occasionally clipping a snare shot or explosion sound.
With only a 10db dynamic range in your music that 200 watts dyno measurement drops all the way to 20 watts of average power... At 20 watts on 4 ohms that amplifier will draw about 2 amps from the supply. (and make sound loud enough to damage your hearing)
There is no reason to wire it up for 200 continuous watts unless you intend to power a siren.
That Fixed Line-out as you said is a Dealbreaker. I would use it with a Subwoofer like you said.
I'm pretty sure it is meant for subwoofer use.
Good purchase mate
Can the Line Out be used for adding the V3 to another amp? I care nothing about using it with a Sub Woofer. I'm an old school 2.0 Stereo Guy. Great video! Love the detail and the sound tests. I subscribed!
For your bench supply, id suggest getting some 5525 connectors with screw terminals on them. You can use 14AWG wire with them and improve your results futher. I found in the past that the voltage drop across a 3ft line of 20AWG is pretty significant at 6+ amps. Hope this helps!
Many folks confuse voltage and current and assume if you've got the voltage you're good to go. Too many don't understand the statement you made. They also don't understand the current spikes caps in amps can cause making that voltage drop from the supply even worse while those caps try to recover. I've been in the electronics field for 25+ years, so I get it. Now all that said going to a larger wire gauge may not improve the peak wattage given these exact tests, however it wouldn't hurt to find out. It's really about how well the caps in the amp recover under the test circumstances.
@@jeffm2787
Also, keep in mind that sine wave testing is not music playback. The full on every cycle clipping we use in testing would destroy some power supplies but that is only a very brief moment in music. Figure that with most reasonable music you will only be producing about 25 watts on average with intermittent clipping. Even on this brick walled crap people listen to nowadays it's unlikely you will average more than about 50 watts per channel from the 48volt supply before you get clipping.
One of the recommendations I made to Fosi is about properly implementing the CLIP_OTW and FAULT pins on the TPA3255 chip to give a "pro audio" style warning on the front panels of these amplifiers. Properly done, the chip will support the blinking "Clip" and "Protect" lights that you see on most pro-level amplifiers and since these are data signals, they could also be used in DSP to manage maximum output. The chip also has current limiting ability that can be programmed to safe values for whatever power supply it's using.
@@Douglas_Blake_579 Agreed, it's a very complex situation. Using what looks like 28 awg wire that's probably CCA isn't a good way to start IMO. Scope the power rails while 'testing' is a good place to start. I'm a big fan of the TPA series of Ti chips, however unlike the amps that run off 12 volts with a boost regulator internally to help stabalize the power rails these really do count on those power bricks and the wire feeding the amp to supply a constant steady voltage even under peaks in the output.
I'm with you on the average end user, however this was a test situation. Using a higher current cheap looking bench supply and using crap wiring wasn't very impressive. In the end it all just doesn't matter much if at all.
@@jeffm2787
Just to give you some idea how ill-informed the average consumer is... I got a call the other day about a failed A07. When I mentioned the V3 he pipes up _"I don't want none of that Digital crap. I'm staying with the good stuff"_ ... where do you even start with that?
I've the bt2oa pro and it's got the bass and treble knobs and is a bt streamer. It sounds great using my b&ws, better than my full Sony receiver.
I have one on order with the 48v power supply, the bluesound node n130 is used as the pre amp so has the connectivity the Fosi is short on including the sub. This is hopefully going to replace the NAD 2200 you dyno'd before with incredible power on tap. see how it gets on. the reason is other half leaves the NAD on and it's burning 78 watts in idle.
If I ever see one of these with a variable line out I’ll be buying it. Numbers are great on this one. But sub is very important to me. And I’m not using speaker level into the sub.
The BT20D apparently does that as does the Aiyima A07Pro.
Amazing for it's size 😮
Integrated and power amps are my thing!
I think if you hook up good wires to the power imput it will preform better!
The power cable is too thin ( voltage drop )
You should solder thicker wires on to the pcb directly
you could probably get to those ratings (power) if the DC cable from the power supply to the amp had heavier wire , but that would be hard to do because of the connectors etc
Using 2 subs with speaker level inputs would be away around that problem.
So it can work as a 2.1 just need a powered sub with a adjustable volume and make sure the amp is on and at the volume you want it but the preout needs to be renamed as line out instead and maybe next revision of this Lil beast can have the line out fixed to preout with volume control but honestly for about $100 with taxes and shipping (without prime of course) its not bad
These little chip amps are sure getting nice. I'm waiting for one that offers USB and optical input with built-in DSP, so I can tune it via computer for specific speakers. Who knows - there may be one like that available already...!
found one from CJL called the BRU5, theres also one from arylic called the B50
the arylic one has the most inputs and outputs so that might be the better one for you lol, the CJL is about 1/3rd the price though colpared to arylic with the CJL's TPA3255 chip
arylic has a sub out, CJL doesnt, if that matters (or buy 2 SJL and use 1 for sub amp and the other full range)
@@10010Linus
The B50 is using the TPA3116d2 chip which tops out at 50w/ch on 8 ohms 10% distortion, or more realistically 35w/ch, 8 ohms, 0.1% distortion.
Don't expect it to even get close to what the V3 does.
@@Douglas_Blake_579 I realized my wording was a bit off, comment has been edited to reflect that it's not the arylic that has the tpa3255 chip
@@10010Linus
Arylic is pretty closed mouth about their circuitry. I was just pointing out their stuff is not always what it might seem.
@@Douglas_Blake_579thats fair enough
You should test out the tp-02 class D sub amp I have one pretty good wish they made one a little bigger.
Cool review as always ❤
> would still just buy a crown xls1002 ... Just plug in 120v. ... 325x2 @4ohm @1 percent or more
yes but Crown is a way bigger in physical dimensions!
@@BASSstarlet ...and the XLS1002 is slightly more expensive :-)
If you could, I'd like to see a demo on the new Taramps smart 8000
Love the review. When I was a kid I used to be able to take my mom's old stereo receivers and they would be powerful enough to push car audio subwoofers do you know anyting modern that would be enough to power like some 15s
The V3 will drive virtually any speaker. I heard one on a pair of Heresys the other day... damn that was loud!
Orange knob is an extra $10 charge, not free. They probably just sent it to you.
I am fairly certain the cable used limited the amperage possible to the amp for the test, but I'm not a power fiend I run my fosi amp with the 5 amp adapter it's more than loud enough for me.
When these little apps get into this price territory, especially with the power supply upgrades, the only advantage is really just size over getting a two-channel receiver from Sony or Yamaha... Especially with all the additional features a real two-channel receiver would have, like multiple inputs a remote control Bluetooth built in etc.
it does exactly what an amplifier is meant to do, amplify. in my case i picked one of these up to take the place of a Rotel 2 channel receiver that i was using only for it's amplifier channels. this chip amp sounds far better than what was a quite spendy 2 channel receiver. I'm using it to power the bass bins of some Klipschorns biamped with vintage Dynaco tube amps powering the mids and highs, and a miniDSP flex doing preamp duties and of course, DSP. theis cheap little amp is a serious competitor to actual audiophile components that cost thousands of dollars. to compare it to a cheap 2 channel receiver is really selling it short.
I wonder, is it that the 3.5mm "output" is a parallel input with the RCA inputs? Perhaps mis-labeled as an output? I'm sure someone already beat me to that comment, but that's my thought. Great video and looks like a great little amp! However for my bedroom stereo, I think I'm staying old school with the Carver C-5 pre and a Yamaha P2075 amp.
Yes, the foil traces run directly from on to the other.
Haven't it been a good idea if an 'Optical Toslink' connections too existed along with the RCA Line in ?
Would like to see you do an amp dyno on the kenwood KAC-5207 amp
Check the polarity of your connection, appears to be pushing in rather than out
Had Fosi Audio DAC, worked fine but after a year volume knob started to develop issues (no sound on certain levels) and started to get power surge on USB port errors. It also told Windows to support audio codecs which it didnt support which caused nasty buzz before I found way to disable incorrect codes (which reseted in each Win update). Before that I had Topping AMP/DAC which lasted 2-3 years before died. So dont have much of trust on chi-fi today.
Great review. Would def need a headphone output. I've been using my Fiio M17 for almost 2yrs and have really enjoyed using it with all my IEM's and EarCans. Only thing is, the M17 is a "brick" and weighs about 1.25lbs. I was lying in bed scrolling through my music and it slipped outa my hand and smashed my face!! It bloodied my lip, hit my left-eye and made me see LIGHTNING!!
This seems interesting, trying to get back into proper speakers, been using Logitech Z623 "200w RMS" and want to build a much more powerful system with a strong punchy bass for my pc/gaming setup. Listening to alot of heavy bass music like dubstep, hardcore and so on. Been thinking about a pair of monitors but need a powerful amp to run them. With a strong amp i can grab pretty much any speakers and build a sweet setup.
Step 1 ... get rid of Logitech. You can do so much better for far less, buying in the home audio market. If you want a hint of what the TPA3255 based amplifiers can do hook them up to a pair of home audio tower speakers ... as in "Oh WOW!".
Do you have a video explaining your testing methods in more depth? I've been trying to learn more about audio equipment as well as building my own speaker cabinets, and I've been overwhelmed with information. Also, I've been struggling to find information that's specific to the applications in which I'd like to build speakers for; like how I always get car audio information when I'm trying to learn about live audio cabinet building.. I'm lost
Genius and awesome
Cant you connect it all to a smart hub like echo dot through 3m5mm to rca and split the rca for subs, and use echo dot to control both the sub and amp volume via input signal?
I wonder if the 48V 10A output would be higher with something larger than 22ga wire from the power supply.
I don't get it why you where disappointed with the line out not being variable, i remember when i got my BT30D PRO i couldn't use the line level output because it was adjusted by the amps master volume! As i had a separate amp for my sub it meant that i would be forced to turn the fosi up all the way to deafening levels for my subwoofer to be at max volume, doesn't make sense for a desk setup! I had to use an audio splitter that way both amps would get the full input signal and i can adjust each to my preference
In fact i still use that audio splitter setup, I've since upgraded the fosi audio with the aiyima A07 Pro because i got a different amp for the subs thus i didn't need the 2.1 channels of the fosi anymore, but i don't know if the A07 Pro has the same problem, if I'm being honest i never bother with the pre outs on thease mini amps after encountering such issue, I'm glad the V3 is the way it is.
the reason why videos like these are so popular is due to very few people actually doing this kind of testing on them.
I guess being slightly shy of the rated power output is a heck of a lot better than the package saying its 600w but only outputting 20w
yeah the fixed line output is not ideal, BUT all is not lost as many subs have a pass through, where you run left and right the speaker wire from the amp into the sub and hook the standard speakers up to the sub and the sub gets its signal from there.
great video thnks....
nice to meet you, my first video here
If you can compare this kind of Class D amp to a same level class AB amp , will be very useful. thanks again
Should have shown the current draw on the 48v power supply while it was on the amp dyno.
About 8 amps on sine wave testing.
48v 20a power supplies can be found for 60usd and can power this to the max
once again going the extra mile! props big d!
Did you try using the "Pre Out" as an input? Maybe they should have labeled it Aux In.
Bring the A07 Max please!
We do like to hear the bass👍🏼
Both the M03 and V3 are TPA3255 chips. The M03 is running in PBTL (Parallel Bridge Tied Load) mode for maximum current to you speakers. The V3 is in BTL mode for stereo operation. So the M03 is actually best suited to your application.
Would like to see you benching the new bully performance md Slayer 8k
That much power to two good home speakers is way beyond what you could ever use. I run a nice older receiver with 30 watts a channel and it will practically run you out of the house with 2 nice Klipsch towers.
Heard a V3 on a pair of Heresys the other day ... Unbelievably loud.
Periodically can pick up the 48/5a supply with the v3 for $99 - it's what I did from Wally
That’s really impressive for a mini amp
The selling feature is the ventilation.
Majro LOL on the wires in the power leads. What are those, 28 awg?
I kind of wonder if the old Fosi V3 would produce the same wattage results if ran on 1 channel (mono) Any thoughts...
Hey Williston 1 love all your videos man Tve been.
Watching for a few years now and finnaly u convinced
me with that last video I'm gonna buy than 1500watt
stinger amp thanks for the review but what I was
gonna say is can u retest that stinger amp u had or
next time u test a amp can u run a test on the dyno at
about 12 volts because I wanna know the watts I'm
running when I bass hard and drop to around 12 volts
because I know at 14.4 we get the most but we do
drop volts so thanks Williston reach back to me❤❤😊
I see that maximum voltage for that amplifier chip is 53.5V so try that and see what will happen 😊 (edit:) please put thicker wires for the power supply, those were tiny cannot support 20A for sure.
53 volts is the *absolute maximum* it is likely the chip would just go into over-voltage protection as soon as you turned it on.
@@Douglas_Blake_579 Depends on temperature as well, the protection circuits will cut in sooner when hot. Don't expect 53.5 volts under full load - but you can increase input voltage to fight voltage drops through copper traces...
@@ruikazane5123
Which just brings the chip closer to total failure.
There is such a thing as a "safety margin" and it's there for good reasons.
@@Douglas_Blake_579That's the point...
@@ruikazane5123
AND that is why you should not go beyond 48 volts.