Hi Paul, I've been a fan for a few years now and have been impressed by your steady logical engineering approach and diagnostic skills. I have not commented before but I do own an A10 myself and this is meant purely as an exchange of ideas between like minded enthusiasts and a love for these dear old ducks OK. The end float spec. is 0.000"-0.003" with a target of 0.0014" when setting from new or a rebuild. The clearance always increases as the engine warms up. The end float is set with shims behind the drive side main bearing inner race and the crankshaft cheek and they are clamped in the sandwich by the cush nut! The issue is that excess clearance allows engine oil to escape from the timing side plain bush straight out the side into the sump rather than making its way via the sludge trap to the big ends. For a bike like this that has been freshly rebuilt with a lot of shiny new goodies fitted, 0.020" end float is way too much and combined with the loose cush nut you found (alarm bells were ringing in my head at this point!) when you first took the primary cover off suggests that possibly the inner race has spun which can tear up the shims and deposit them in the sump. It's possible whomever built this engine did actually set the end float correctly but the shims have now disappeared from the mix and the motor is on its way to self-destructing! If it were my bike I would be dropping that shiny new sump plate and checking the filter screen and the oil that drains from the sump for any signs of the dreaded glitter which would be the first signs of impending doom. Even if all appears well enough now, I would not be happy with 0.020" as the basis for long life and happiness. A bike such as this deserves better and the end float needs to be addressed in my book for peace of mind if nothing else. I'll leave that with you, as I'm sure you will be thinking about this yourself over the week-end. Have a good (warmer?) one and I look forward to following the story on this bike as it unfolds. Cheers Ian.
You are certainly at the top of the tree with your profession Paul , you look at things that other professionals would probably not even notice. Full credit to you , I would trust my life in your hands without any doubt.
Great analysis and problem solving. Number of plates is completely confusing based on sites and manuals. As far as i know there were different depth clutch baskets and clutch centres over time hence it been so confusing. Also no saying if they got miss matched over the years.
Great news, new rubber. Get that "hop and wobble" sorted. Clutch basket in good shape? They can create noise if worn, plates rocking back and forth. That crank endplay seems excessive, but I come from harley world where the cranks are set at .002-.005 with a tapered roller bearing set up. Really enjoying these videos, welcome to the weekend
If at all possible I would consider moving the whole front wheel to the right, if only to ensure full engagement between the lug on the fork leg and the lugs on the brake plate.
A very sage older rider told me to be wary of "over tyering" ..meaning fatter isnt always better..softer compounds and precise changing of pressure in small increments..digital tyre gauges are best
My RR also has a skinny looking rear tyre and I too am struggling to find a decent 400 that looks right. I'm thinking of going down to an 18 rim like the A65 to get a better tyre choice. Re that front wheel; assume nothing!! My RR came with that same 8" TLS in A10 sliders and had been packed with spacers on the spindle to get the brake plate lined up. Before you go too far get to the bottom of how they got the brake peg to engage with the brake plate - I had to get 5/32 of weld built up on the plate. Also whether it has the right front wheel spindle (there seem to be 3!). Odds on its just laced with the wrong offset but fitting these TLS brakes to the A10 forks is not as simple as it looks and seeing how many "mistakes" you have found so far I would check and check again!.
I'm wondering if the chain binding around the gearbox sprocket is due either to the sprocket being loose or engine spacers in the wrong position. The front wheel giving me that clue because it doesn't seem to be in correctly, the brake backplate spigot appears to only just be engaging, as if the hub should be moved across more to the offside. It's difficult to tell on the video and I may be way off in my thinking, but are the wheels inline and is the chain inline. Just a thought.
It’s the wrong front brake plate ( though the triumph tls is a great mod). Is that the cause of the offset issue. And is the lug nicely engaged in the brake plate?
That TLS front drum brake...looks just like the one mounted on my '54 Velocette MSS (put on by a previous owner...not stock). From your passing video images, it seemed the connection rod looked bent/distorted. Any concerns?
I wanted to fit the correct size, 4.00 x 19 tyre on the rear, but the only one I could find had too low a speed rating, so a 3.50 x 19 Dunlop K70 will be going on the rear, while a 3.25 x 19 version is the correct size for the front and one of this size will be fitted there.
Hi Paul, I've been a fan for a few years now and have been impressed by your steady logical engineering approach and diagnostic skills. I have not commented before but I do own an A10 myself and this is meant purely as an exchange of ideas between like minded enthusiasts and a love for these dear old ducks OK. The end float spec. is 0.000"-0.003" with a target of 0.0014" when setting from new or a rebuild. The clearance always increases as the engine warms up. The end float is set with shims behind the drive side main bearing inner race and the crankshaft cheek and they are clamped in the sandwich by the cush nut! The issue is that excess clearance allows engine oil to escape from the timing side plain bush straight out the side into the sump rather than making its way via the sludge trap to the big ends. For a bike like this that has been freshly rebuilt with a lot of shiny new goodies fitted, 0.020" end float is way too much and combined with the loose cush nut you found (alarm bells were ringing in my head at this point!) when you first took the primary cover off suggests that possibly the inner race has spun which can tear up the shims and deposit them in the sump. It's possible whomever built this engine did actually set the end float correctly but the shims have now disappeared from the mix and the motor is on its way to self-destructing! If it were my bike I would be dropping that shiny new sump plate and checking the filter screen and the oil that drains from the sump for any signs of the dreaded glitter which would be the first signs of impending doom. Even if all appears well enough now, I would not be happy with 0.020" as the basis for long life and happiness. A bike such as this deserves better and the end float needs to be addressed in my book for peace of mind if nothing else. I'll leave that with you, as I'm sure you will be thinking about this yourself over the week-end. Have a good (warmer?) one and I look forward to following the story on this bike as it unfolds. Cheers Ian.
Hi Ian and noted, thanks for that!
Also that Cush nut should be done up FT or 67 ft/lbs plus loctite! The split pin does nothing to stop it undoing, poor design really.
You are certainly at the top of the tree with your profession Paul , you look at things that other professionals would probably not even notice.
Full credit to you , I would trust my life in your hands without any doubt.
Thank you very much!
Great analysis and problem solving. Number of plates is completely confusing based on sites and manuals. As far as i know there were different depth clutch baskets and clutch centres over time hence it been so confusing. Also no saying if they got miss matched over the years.
Great news, new rubber. Get that "hop and wobble" sorted. Clutch basket in good shape? They can create noise if worn, plates rocking back and forth. That crank endplay seems excessive, but I come from harley world where the cranks are set at .002-.005 with a tapered roller bearing set up. Really enjoying these videos, welcome to the weekend
I bought a bike with 'handling problems'
New K 70's solved the problem
Thanks Paul.
If at all possible I would consider moving the whole front wheel to the right, if only to ensure full engagement between the lug on the fork leg and the lugs on the brake plate.
A very sage older rider told me to be wary of "over tyering" ..meaning fatter isnt always better..softer compounds and precise changing of pressure in small increments..digital tyre gauges are best
My RR also has a skinny looking rear tyre and I too am struggling to find a decent 400 that looks right. I'm thinking of going down to an 18 rim like the A65 to get a better tyre choice.
Re that front wheel; assume nothing!! My RR came with that same 8" TLS in A10 sliders and had been packed with spacers on the spindle to get the brake plate lined up. Before you go too far get to the bottom of how they got the brake peg to engage with the brake plate - I had to get 5/32 of weld built up on the plate. Also whether it has the right front wheel spindle (there seem to be 3!). Odds on its just laced with the wrong offset but fitting these TLS brakes to the A10 forks is not as simple as it looks and seeing how many "mistakes" you have found so far I would check and check again!.
Thanks - I will take a close look!
Mic audio loud and clear today, even on my phone.
Ah - Kodak used for this one!
I'm wondering if the chain binding around the gearbox sprocket is due either to the sprocket being loose or engine spacers in the wrong position. The front wheel giving me that clue because it doesn't seem to be in correctly, the brake backplate spigot appears to only just be engaging, as if the hub should be moved across more to the offside. It's difficult to tell on the video and I may be way off in my thinking, but are the wheels inline and is the chain inline. Just a thought.
It’s the wrong front brake plate ( though the triumph tls is a great mod). Is that the cause of the offset issue. And is the lug nicely engaged in the brake plate?
Wow that front wheel is miles offset. It is a pity about the oil loss from the breather, I wonder if the rings are ok?
That TLS front drum brake...looks just like the one mounted on my '54 Velocette MSS (put on by a previous owner...not stock). From your passing video images, it seemed the connection rod looked bent/distorted. Any concerns?
Thanks - I will be taking a close look at the front wheel and brake very soon, and there will be video coverage of it.
If the oil loss from the breather is decreasing, was it just a case of 'simple' wet sumping? Not a problem if the bike is run frequently & often.
Will you be fitting larger tires both front & rear?👍
I wanted to fit the correct size, 4.00 x 19 tyre on the rear, but the only one I could find had too low a speed rating, so a 3.50 x 19 Dunlop K70 will be going on the rear, while a 3.25 x 19 version is the correct size for the front and one of this size will be fitted there.
👍
Extend the breather so it lubes the rear chain?
Unfortunately, there is nothing to fit a pipe to, it is just a hole in the engine casing, and it is in a very awkward place!
Check end float and the cork and cam timing and the put 20w 50 classic oil in mind ran on this find.