"Invalidates the previous purchases." That's exactly where I am. We have a crazy strong Underworlds community in my area, and I jumped in earlier this year (incidentally my first dip into the Warhammer universe). I have models partway painted; warbands I put together but hadn't gotten to the table yet; Decks I purchased and had only messed around with a little. And now so much of that is down the tube. All the decks I bought: not compatible. Warbands: when they get around to giving us the digital assets. I don't need or want more models. So they want me to pay 100 USD for a board and four decks? No thanks. Maybe I'll see if I can grab the decks only on eBay later when the scrolls for my models come out. But this is a real feels bad at the moment for me.
The previous edition universal decks (like Rimelocked Relics or Fearsome Fortress for example) sold for around $25 per deck. So 4 decks is $100...no board...no models. This starter comes with 4 decks, plus the board, counters, dice, and models for around $100. All 4 decks are universal and will be able to be used with any of the teams as their final warscrolls get released. That said, don't get me wrong, I do feel bad that you hopped into Underworlds just before an edition change
I am still sad about there not being dope artwork on the cards... i don't want/need photo's of pro painted mini's on the cards. I'll keep playing the older sets/edition - I am not competitive in the slightest.
This was always going to come down to price point. They could have at least maintained the $90 US, if not drop it a little like their previous Underworlds Starter Sets. But no, it's their new "cheap starter set" cost of $110.
Yeah they totally needed to release a starter as a loss leader...should really be closer to $80. Maybe with just 2 universal decks. Starters really only need to give new players the experience, then they can expand as they want. Including so much that it prices out the experimenter is not a good idea. The new Kill Team starter with two previously released teams, and MDF terrain is a good example of keeping it cheap enough to hook in newbies.
Great review/thoughts Ash! As an existing fan that fell off after Direchasm, this new version does enough to get me excited and back in. However, im 100% with you. Ive wanted a 40k version for years, and thought that once it started to decline GW would take the chance to make the switch. The Underworlds models have always been some of their best (imo), and youre right. Doing the same thing but for 40k would basically print them money. I'm still hoping we see this system ported to 40k though, as this new template seems easier to balance and adjust.
I feel a bit "had" with this new edition. It's supposed to be(well for me) a small casual game. Now to get into this game I got to get a box that has minis I don't want, got to buy 2 boxes of cards(8 teams total) to get 2 team cards and (cos I want them) got to buy 4 sets of minis to get 1 set I want. That adds up to a lot of money. So I decided to just leave it...and see if someone else buys the box. If not I'll just play the older version even less often.
In fairness to play old Underworlds you still had to buy at least one of the ‘core’ boxes, regardless of whether you liked the minis or not, just to get the boards and dice you needed. This isn’t that different.
I played the first few seasons of underworlds and then it just got too big and unmanageable with all the different decks and rules additions. I think this reset is wonderful for new players and those who felt lost after missing a season or two. Really glad to have picked this up.
I decided to get the box and give it a go. I have some concerns about the game going forward, but we shall see. Thanks for the review and I'm looking forward to the playthrough
GW already have a poor reputation re. Predatory game iterations that do little to move the experience on in a meaningful way, but seem optimised to make short term cash windfalls for the company (at the expense of the game/community). This release seems very much on brand for them.
I don't think this is iterating on a previous model, I think its ripping out the heart of the old model and hoping we don't notice. The loss of faction cards is a change that I think most of the big names in the underworlds community are being very "oh its not so bad" but I know that once we get the warscrolls for our old stuff, its going to be glaringly obvious that it was a change to reduce costs at the expense of nearly everything else. The card art as well, it just reeks of "we are trying to lower our production costs as much as possible and hoping you don't notice".
100%. Going from 2 boards to 1 isn't primarily for streamlining play, it's to save on their card stock production prices. Same with shaving off cards, its all done for their benefit, not for gameplay. The only good thing about this revamp is it presents an opportunity to stop paying attention and enjoy amassed collections.
@@DustyLamp I actually like the single board. It means that the designers have a lot more ability to make interesting and unique boards. They could never go to crazy with the old boards because of the placement system. It also reduces the setup significantly which was something I always skipped over explaining when I was teaching new players. Them reducing the size of the hexes though, yes that's a cost cutting measure.
We can get it for 70 € around Discounted resellers in Europe pretty reliably. I was interested for a Long time and now have a Buddy really hyped for Skaven. So I hope it will be our starting point... Understand all the older Players disapointment though. I View IT like a Hobby Gateway... And Sort of Like a Euro Boardgame. Buy - have two or three Weekends of fun with IT... So yeah Overall interested...🎉
The nail in the coffin for me is the loss of warband specific decks/cards. I'm always drawn to what makes factions/warbands different, and now that the only real difference between warbands is a set of ~3-4 mostly one time use abilities (plus different numerical values), any individuality is pretty much killed. I think I am officially done with GW after this.
I am hyped for the new edition. Its hard getting the rival decks since they dont stay in stock. The newer players we have now have a chance to get into it and not have to pay top prices for some of the decks or warbands. So a cleanse is not the worst for me.
A few months ago I picked up a copy of the old edition at my local Barnes and noble in sale for I think 20 freedom bucks, love the models and the concept of the game, never played it before that I hope they do a version of the new edition for them, would def pick it up as it’s a better price but other than a variant of make storm cast instead of ranged it seemed the same Also found some awesome 3d prints to make the blocking terrain 3D which is always awesome
Your point about recruitment is particularly obvious in the Warhammer Community articles always focusing on changes, revisions and other minutiae that doesn't mean anything whatsoever to curious outsiders. That goes for pretty much all their content, but I always find it extra annoying when new editions are coming out. Where is the short official video explaining the rules in 5 minutes? My only option is a 2-hour game session and articles that are impossible to understand.
I'm glad I got out of this game about a year ago. Had everything from season 1-4 and sold all of it because it got too much. And now all of the work I had put into storing the cards and minis would have been made redundant. Blitz Bowl is the only GW product I'm still supporting.
I came looking for information on Underworlds, as I thought it might be fun to get into. I'm very lucky this was out; it would have sucked tremendously to have invested a bunch of time and money into it, right before this sort of rug-pull. Double the cost, and backwards compatibility is "kinda sorta eventually probably". Back to OPR for me, I guess. Thank you for the warning, Ash.
As someone that was trying to get into the hobby, I got overwhelmed by 40k. When I heard of this I got excited because I can get started without building a whole army(still the goal for the future). I just hope I’m able to find ppl to play with
I'm excited for this new "edition". TBH I was expecting the game to be cancelled as opposed to getting streamlined rules. The fact that the cardboard components of the previous edition are no longer compatible is definitely a con. A positive point that wasn't mentioned is that all warbands are getting a new "warscroll" which means that I can use older warbands that were considerably outclassed by newer warbands with better rules/mechanics. The fact that this game doesn't have a 40K equivalent is criminal.
Too expensive and no card art kills it for me. It just feels like another example of companies cutting corners everywhere while trying to maintain their insane profits.
I want to compare it to Blitz Bowl, which is roughly the same content for a 3rd less. I know BB it limited in retail but still it feels like a better deal. Also +1 on a 40K version of Underworlds.
I would kill for a 40k Underworlds for a number of reasons, notably how the teams in Underworlds are compatible with Warcry, so a 40K version should be compatible with Kill Team.
With the cost, i just dont see who this is for. Previous players arent happy about having to rebuy stuff and the loss of card art (the vocal crowd is really vocal about this). And as you point out, it doesn't really feel set to pull in new players. My fear is this wont do well and will be the end of Underworlds; not because the game isnt good but because of very corporate decisions.
Got a lot of warbands from season 2 and 3. Eventually, the release schedule outpaced me, the model of having to buy new warbands all the time just to get the new cards just isn't sustainable. Having like 20 warbands also clashes with the deck-construction aspect a) you can't use them all, b) you have to construct new decks all the time or c) you play with pre-built sub-par decks. In short: Rival decks were the perfect idea for me. So I hate that GW are not making them more obtainable even more. They are hard to come by in general, often hidden in starter or warband boxes again and for a deck of cards really fckn expensive. That's not how you get people like me back into the game and economy again. Typical GW behavior, essentially.
I think the cost of getting people into Underworlds won't be the $100/CAD$130 of this set, it will be whatever the cost of the individual warbands. That's where I seen a lot of people jump in was when all they needed was to spend $30-$35 for a warband. Warbands are more like $50 now, but only really need one person to have this set for getting people to play as long as the only cost are still those individual warbands. I know what got me out of it was when the warbands that I liked from seasons 2-4 were rotated out and couldn't use them really anymore. If they are bringing them back into play with these new decks, that makes me interested at least. The cost still doesn't make it as easy of a game, but I can deal with it if I'm having fun and don't need to buy warbands I really don't like to just get individual cards I need to make a deck work well.
I think I WILL use the old boards, because that one-sided board will get boring fast. You can modify the space with terrain and the board does not matter much it seems.
I'm kinda interested. This should be about the price of a box of Space Marines. A 40K version would be great... Actually, they made that with Warhammer Fire Team. Good game, shitty limited distribution.
I fell off of the earlier editions of Underworlds since I wanted it to be more of a board game I could play with friends not interested in wargaming, but deckbuilding did not sit well with me. This seems more like something I would enjoy playing this way (with pre-made rival decks, simplified warbands) but I have little trust for GW to make it work. For a second I thought about jumping back to try it out, but I think I'll pass in the end.
They lost me when they overpriced the Rivals Decks. I have little confidence that the "warscrolls" for the 58 older warbands won't also be a price gouge. I do think that the new crit system and the bounty system will change the gameplay experience for the better, but they just charge too much for cardboard and I'm not budging from that - Rivals decks should be sub $20 dollars US, probably 15ish. The battleboard change was a kick in the teeth, but for friendly games I think you could use the old ones just fine.
They have said the warscrolls for the older warbands that aren’t due a physical release yet will be available digitally for free, so playing with them shouldn’t be too expensive!
Thanks for the video and give us your thoughts. On the Warhammer Community site, GW makes the argument that this new version of underworlds make it easier for new players to jump onboard. They state that there's no longer a need to track down OOP cards and warbands. Do you think this argument holds water? For reference, I've never played Underworlds but I was thinking of picking this set up.
I mean the ‘no need’ thing will come down to the legacy Warscrolls really. I’m the end the biggest upside is they can mothball stuff and not have to produce or support it. Theres not a lot of consumer ‘upside’ on the miniatures themselves be the only thing to remain useable out of the piles of cardboard plunder folks have.
Gw continues to do a great job of narrowing down how many of their products I care about. If Warhammer Quest and Warcry get a similar treatment I'll basically be out of the modern hobby.
Kinda bummed about this one. One the one hand, I like Skaven, and Skyre, so that one new warband looks very interesting to me, but I don't really like the version change invalidating previous purchases, and the change in the boards. The price is also rather high. Kinda glad I didn't get into it a few months back like I was thinking of.
so, I've been watching videos on this and have some interest. But at 130 cdn that is tough. I can get the new kill team starter for that which comes with more. I dunno. tough
Yeah bad timing for me. I had just picked up last year's starter box. It was half the price of this one. I take too long to spin up for purchase to play. Perhaps I'll buy in again when price drops.
Would you recommend this set for beginners?. I need a new game for geek night. Wondered how easy it was to pick up?. Can you play with this set or do you need to buy a lot of additional stuff to get the most out of it? Thanks 🙏
I'm bummed about Emberguard.. Not just because my so far complete WHU collection of cards and boards are no useless. I can still use my warbands. And good on them for making it print and play. The game is probably still really, really good! But the change in the looks of the cards is just so lack-luster. We had beautiful, cool and unique art on every card before. Now we've got a very sterile looking card with a photo of some models. It has less immersion that way, and feels more of a dime-a-dozen boardgame type. At a higher price..
There will likely be a cheaper starter set using existing minis at some point. Generally though, I find everything GW have done lately is just remakes, sequels and prequels. It all lacks innovation and interest. I miss Silver Tower, that Macragge game and all those things where they just experimented with cool ideas. I had high hopes for coop Kill Team but that seems to be a bit of a damp squib too.
I’m surprised you don’t think this is a perfect Christmas morning box for your kids. I think the card mechanics look way more streamlined than the last edition; my biggest issue was how complex the cards and warbands got. You get this box and will eventually get the warband rules for all of your old stuff and you can try out decks with all of them. I think I would’ve loved this new system as a kid. Definitely going to introduce it to my students in board game club.
I’d pick Spearhead over this likely for the price point and ease of entry. Much less ‘combo oriented’ and the scoring system is way more straightforward for teaching tabletop. Not that this isn’t a great entry level game (it is!) I just think it’s aimed higher up that tween to teen range.
Honestly happy for the clean edition. I tried dipping my toe in a few years back and found the learning curve steep with board set up strategy, etc. It seems like this edition has eliminated that and sort of leveled certain aspects of the game to make it friendlier for new players.
I wouldn't have bought this if I wasn't a Skaven collector. I don't mind the game but there are next to no people interested in playing it within my wargaming club.
As an existing all in Underworlds player this is a sour grapes 'feels bad' moment. No surprise with GW breaking a game.. Obviously they've done this before.. Still feels bad that all my cards are dead. The cheapo pictures over art is another 'ugh' decision.. Sigh. I do like the Skaven models a lot. So there's that.
Well, uh, at least I will be able to free up some room on my shelf now? I have one core box full of boards (including ones GW sold separately), one full of cards (Including plenty of Rivals decks) and one full of tokens. Now they have reset things, I only need one box. Yay?
No body plays this game currently - they needed to sell this a as a loss leader product to get it in players hands. Compare this to the upcoming KT starter set.... the value is not there.
While pricey, it seems to be addressing so many issues in one go. Not going to jump in just yet( not been feeling the warbands of late ) but I think this is much better than the incomplete experiences of the Kill Team and Warcry starter sets. Yes, they need to release 40K Underworlds! Make it happen GW!
This is the first non-sensical review I've seen from GMG. You literally said the previous edition was great for new players, but this one isn't because it's not different enough from the previous version. So which is it? Too different, or not different enough? Plus the price point is the same as all GWs intro/starter box price points these days--no doubt I agree that the price is too high, but that's because their across their entire product line is too high. This box is in line with their other similar boxes. To call this one box out, doesn't make sense. If you play the game, you'll see a fantastic job of streamlining without removing the difficult tactical decision points--that's great stuff for new players, many of whom were put off by the unnecessarily complex flow-chart card-timing game play of the previous edition. THAT is exactly what is needed to bring in new players. This is not a game that is somehow just for the existing player base--although it's great that they are making it as compatible as they have...it's literally for (and achieves) exactly what you say over and over again in your video that you hoped this edition would--a great Christmas morning onramp to the world of hobby gaming, which also doesn't alienate the current player base. (the use of miniature photography rather than painted art is a sad, but it also increases the innate understanding of exactly who the card affects)
This edition game-wise will be wonderful for new players; I just think they've made a rubicon move where they're also counting on a large portion of existing players to come along too to provide the ecosystem for those new players to have opponents in. It's a complex problem but I think in particular the incompatibility of boards and fully Rivals Deck Edition being locked into the one box is going create an emotional reaction. That reaction is going to be vocal, so when new players research the environment they're buying into at the current price point (which is 200% the Shadespire Price of only about five years ago) you've got a sticky launch. I think simply keeping the old boards compatible (you could just mandate them lining up in the rules) as well as the Universal Rivals decks from the last wave being compatible as well (which could have been written around with an FAQ if anything got sticky) would have seen this launch be much more successful and allowed the great actual game design to shine. Sorry that wasn't as clear in this one, but this property in particular is a bit hard to articulate on as it is SO component heavy (Decks, Boards, etc) and the price itself has climbed from 'very easy to take a chance on' to 'this is a big investment and they keep making parts of that investment go away).
@@GuerrillaMiniatureGames Fair points. Thanks for the more in-depth insight to your thinking. I think, however, that the move to make everything more available and re-worked to be fully compatible is a larger boon than a negative. The biggest complain I've heard from the previous edition is that so little was available unless you were snatching up pre-orders before the AoS and Warcry players got em. Balancing universal decks with custom warscrolls, separates the big card deck expense from the cheap and easy to disperse half-page unique warscroll datasheets. This *should* make it easier to balance, but each team will still be unique as befits the models, and production won't require coordinating both the plastic and cards which GW has been unable to do efficiently on an ongoing basis. But, perhaps you're right and it'll die on the vine because the existing player base is complaining--that is certainly a possibility!
If it is indeed aimed at new people, Ash's point about the high price tag being a barrier to entry is totally valid. It's odd to make an on-boarding product so expensive while not significantly overhauling the rules -- the 1.5 version conundrum that Ash mentions.
@jcpouzols £54 from third party over here so I don't see that as expensive compared to any other board game cheaper than a full price video game. It's not a million miles off from the Canadian price given Google's conversion rates. So no I can't agree it's massively over priced.
I think this is a great product for new players. It was confusing to figure out how to start Underworlds previously. I think existing players are hurt the most. All of their existing cards and boards were invalidated. I still think there's going to be an easy on ramp for existing players since they probably have a few warbands that can still be played. The upcoming box of cards for warbands will make it even easier for existing players to migrate to the new edition.
The game hasn’t substantially changed to be honest. Theres going to be some subtle tactical changes to the scoring of the new decks but without context or being able to see the catalogue of other warbands there’s not much to review here apart from the aggregate product itself. This isn’t a ‘tactical’ review; it’s a product review.
Sorry mate I know its prob just an honest misstake but you released this an hour early which hurts us other creators that wait till 10 am brittish time to release. All the best!
Yeah, simply a case of the usual release time set on TH-cam that was last week (when it was correct) becoming incorrect today, and literally only for today as our clocks also go back tomorrow.
Weirdly enough I think the original underworlds was a response to how strong the competitive X-Wing scene was at the time, and how well that game was selling. The 'competitive' angle was always a bit scary and probably something that put off some people. I'm excited about this edition because there's lots of things I never bothered with (board placement, learning every warband deck etc) being removed and some positive changes. I'm just hoping enough people get it that there is a community for it. I do wish it was cheaper, the main reason I have a stack of (mostly unplayed) Underworlds boxes because they were literally too cheap to say no to :D
I agree, at that time I was big into competitive X-Wing and Underworlds was a fantastic game even at launch from a competitive point of view. Like all other GW products, it has succumbed to rules bloat and needed a restart.
"Invalidates the previous purchases." That's exactly where I am. We have a crazy strong Underworlds community in my area, and I jumped in earlier this year (incidentally my first dip into the Warhammer universe). I have models partway painted; warbands I put together but hadn't gotten to the table yet; Decks I purchased and had only messed around with a little. And now so much of that is down the tube. All the decks I bought: not compatible. Warbands: when they get around to giving us the digital assets. I don't need or want more models. So they want me to pay 100 USD for a board and four decks? No thanks. Maybe I'll see if I can grab the decks only on eBay later when the scrolls for my models come out. But this is a real feels bad at the moment for me.
Welcome to Games Workshop!
@@Filthyanimal9 welcome to miniature/competitive gaming.
The previous edition universal decks (like Rimelocked Relics or Fearsome Fortress for example) sold for around $25 per deck. So 4 decks is $100...no board...no models. This starter comes with 4 decks, plus the board, counters, dice, and models for around $100. All 4 decks are universal and will be able to be used with any of the teams as their final warscrolls get released.
That said, don't get me wrong, I do feel bad that you hopped into Underworlds just before an edition change
The price is what’s killed me for this game. If it was still 65 it would be rocking and rolling.
In the UK it's available for £54 from third-party shops. Not as cheap as it used to be but a bit more affordable than RRP.
😂😂😂
Lol in my country it has the same price as previous ones
I am still sad about there not being dope artwork on the cards... i don't want/need photo's of pro painted mini's on the cards. I'll keep playing the older sets/edition - I am not competitive in the slightest.
Totally agree with ya mate
100%! It's such a turn off for me.
Yeah I just want to play the old stuff
This was always going to come down to price point. They could have at least maintained the $90 US, if not drop it a little like their previous Underworlds Starter Sets. But no, it's their new "cheap starter set" cost of $110.
Yeah they totally needed to release a starter as a loss leader...should really be closer to $80. Maybe with just 2 universal decks. Starters really only need to give new players the experience, then they can expand as they want. Including so much that it prices out the experimenter is not a good idea.
The new Kill Team starter with two previously released teams, and MDF terrain is a good example of keeping it cheap enough to hook in newbies.
I can’t see the name of this wave of Underworlds and not have it sound like “Ermagherd” in my head.
Great review/thoughts Ash!
As an existing fan that fell off after Direchasm, this new version does enough to get me excited and back in.
However, im 100% with you. Ive wanted a 40k version for years, and thought that once it started to decline GW would take the chance to make the switch.
The Underworlds models have always been some of their best (imo), and youre right. Doing the same thing but for 40k would basically print them money.
I'm still hoping we see this system ported to 40k though, as this new template seems easier to balance and adjust.
The biggest sin of this box is that the Starter Set for the previous edition is still being sold alongside it.
I feel a bit "had" with this new edition. It's supposed to be(well for me) a small casual game. Now to get into this game I got to get a box that has minis I don't want, got to buy 2 boxes of cards(8 teams total) to get 2 team cards and (cos I want them) got to buy 4 sets of minis to get 1 set I want.
That adds up to a lot of money. So I decided to just leave it...and see if someone else buys the box.
If not I'll just play the older version even less often.
In fairness to play old Underworlds you still had to buy at least one of the ‘core’ boxes, regardless of whether you liked the minis or not, just to get the boards and dice you needed. This isn’t that different.
I played the first few seasons of underworlds and then it just got too big and unmanageable with all the different decks and rules additions. I think this reset is wonderful for new players and those who felt lost after missing a season or two. Really glad to have picked this up.
Saturday Morning Reviews! 🥳🤩🎉🎊👏🏾
Been waiting for your review of this.
Title should be Embergard Ash! ❤
I decided to get the box and give it a go. I have some concerns about the game going forward, but we shall see. Thanks for the review and I'm looking forward to the playthrough
GW already have a poor reputation re. Predatory game iterations that do little to move the experience on in a meaningful way, but seem optimised to make short term cash windfalls for the company (at the expense of the game/community). This release seems very much on brand for them.
I don't think this is iterating on a previous model, I think its ripping out the heart of the old model and hoping we don't notice. The loss of faction cards is a change that I think most of the big names in the underworlds community are being very "oh its not so bad" but I know that once we get the warscrolls for our old stuff, its going to be glaringly obvious that it was a change to reduce costs at the expense of nearly everything else. The card art as well, it just reeks of "we are trying to lower our production costs as much as possible and hoping you don't notice".
100%. Going from 2 boards to 1 isn't primarily for streamlining play, it's to save on their card stock production prices. Same with shaving off cards, its all done for their benefit, not for gameplay. The only good thing about this revamp is it presents an opportunity to stop paying attention and enjoy amassed collections.
@@DustyLamp I actually like the single board. It means that the designers have a lot more ability to make interesting and unique boards. They could never go to crazy with the old boards because of the placement system. It also reduces the setup significantly which was something I always skipped over explaining when I was teaching new players. Them reducing the size of the hexes though, yes that's a cost cutting measure.
We can get it for 70 € around Discounted resellers in Europe pretty reliably. I was interested for a Long time and now have a Buddy really hyped for Skaven. So I hope it will be our starting point... Understand all the older Players disapointment though. I View IT like a Hobby Gateway... And Sort of Like a Euro Boardgame. Buy - have two or three Weekends of fun with IT... So yeah Overall interested...🎉
The nail in the coffin for me is the loss of warband specific decks/cards. I'm always drawn to what makes factions/warbands different, and now that the only real difference between warbands is a set of ~3-4 mostly one time use abilities (plus different numerical values), any individuality is pretty much killed. I think I am officially done with GW after this.
I am hyped for the new edition. Its hard getting the rival decks since they dont stay in stock. The newer players we have now have a chance to get into it and not have to pay top prices for some of the decks or warbands.
So a cleanse is not the worst for me.
A few months ago I picked up a copy of the old edition at my local Barnes and noble in sale for I think 20 freedom bucks, love the models and the concept of the game, never played it before that
I hope they do a version of the new edition for them, would def pick it up as it’s a better price but other than a variant of make storm cast instead of ranged it seemed the same
Also found some awesome 3d prints to make the blocking terrain 3D which is always awesome
Your point about recruitment is particularly obvious in the Warhammer Community articles always focusing on changes, revisions and other minutiae that doesn't mean anything whatsoever to curious outsiders. That goes for pretty much all their content, but I always find it extra annoying when new editions are coming out.
Where is the short official video explaining the rules in 5 minutes? My only option is a 2-hour game session and articles that are impossible to understand.
I'm glad I got out of this game about a year ago. Had everything from season 1-4 and sold all of it because it got too much. And now all of the work I had put into storing the cards and minis would have been made redundant. Blitz Bowl is the only GW product I'm still supporting.
I came looking for information on Underworlds, as I thought it might be fun to get into. I'm very lucky this was out; it would have sucked tremendously to have invested a bunch of time and money into it, right before this sort of rug-pull. Double the cost, and backwards compatibility is "kinda sorta eventually probably". Back to OPR for me, I guess. Thank you for the warning, Ash.
As someone that was trying to get into the hobby, I got overwhelmed by 40k. When I heard of this I got excited because I can get started without building a whole army(still the goal for the future). I just hope I’m able to find ppl to play with
Tell me you don't play Underworlds without telling me you don't play Underworlds
I'm excited for this new "edition". TBH I was expecting the game to be cancelled as opposed to getting streamlined rules.
The fact that the cardboard components of the previous edition are no longer compatible is definitely a con.
A positive point that wasn't mentioned is that all warbands are getting a new "warscroll" which means that I can use older warbands that were considerably outclassed by newer warbands with better rules/mechanics.
The fact that this game doesn't have a 40K equivalent is criminal.
Too expensive and no card art kills it for me. It just feels like another example of companies cutting corners everywhere while trying to maintain their insane profits.
I want to compare it to Blitz Bowl, which is roughly the same content for a 3rd less. I know BB it limited in retail but still it feels like a better deal. Also +1 on a 40K version of Underworlds.
I would kill for a 40k Underworlds for a number of reasons, notably how the teams in Underworlds are compatible with Warcry, so a 40K version should be compatible with Kill Team.
With the cost, i just dont see who this is for. Previous players arent happy about having to rebuy stuff and the loss of card art (the vocal crowd is really vocal about this). And as you point out, it doesn't really feel set to pull in new players. My fear is this wont do well and will be the end of Underworlds; not because the game isnt good but because of very corporate decisions.
Got a lot of warbands from season 2 and 3. Eventually, the release schedule outpaced me, the model of having to buy new warbands all the time just to get the new cards just isn't sustainable. Having like 20 warbands also clashes with the deck-construction aspect a) you can't use them all, b) you have to construct new decks all the time or c) you play with pre-built sub-par decks.
In short: Rival decks were the perfect idea for me. So I hate that GW are not making them more obtainable even more. They are hard to come by in general, often hidden in starter or warband boxes again and for a deck of cards really fckn expensive. That's not how you get people like me back into the game and economy again. Typical GW behavior, essentially.
I think the cost of getting people into Underworlds won't be the $100/CAD$130 of this set, it will be whatever the cost of the individual warbands. That's where I seen a lot of people jump in was when all they needed was to spend $30-$35 for a warband. Warbands are more like $50 now, but only really need one person to have this set for getting people to play as long as the only cost are still those individual warbands. I know what got me out of it was when the warbands that I liked from seasons 2-4 were rotated out and couldn't use them really anymore. If they are bringing them back into play with these new decks, that makes me interested at least. The cost still doesn't make it as easy of a game, but I can deal with it if I'm having fun and don't need to buy warbands I really don't like to just get individual cards I need to make a deck work well.
I think I WILL use the old boards, because that one-sided board will get boring fast. You can modify the space with terrain and the board does not matter much it seems.
It’s double sided like the last one, with some different impassable terrain
Here in Argentina most of the community will keep playing the 1st edition because they don't like most of the changes
I'm kinda interested. This should be about the price of a box of Space Marines. A 40K version would be great... Actually, they made that with Warhammer Fire Team. Good game, shitty limited distribution.
I was tempted to try it until I saw the price. Woof. Have to think about that now.
I fell off of the earlier editions of Underworlds since I wanted it to be more of a board game I could play with friends not interested in wargaming, but deckbuilding did not sit well with me. This seems more like something I would enjoy playing this way (with pre-made rival decks, simplified warbands) but I have little trust for GW to make it work. For a second I thought about jumping back to try it out, but I think I'll pass in the end.
They lost me when they overpriced the Rivals Decks. I have little confidence that the "warscrolls" for the 58 older warbands won't also be a price gouge. I do think that the new crit system and the bounty system will change the gameplay experience for the better, but they just charge too much for cardboard and I'm not budging from that - Rivals decks should be sub $20 dollars US, probably 15ish. The battleboard change was a kick in the teeth, but for friendly games I think you could use the old ones just fine.
Yeah you should just be able to kill the corner hexes at the back and get the same results
They have said the warscrolls for the older warbands that aren’t due a physical release yet will be available digitally for free, so playing with them shouldn’t be too expensive!
Thanks for the video and give us your thoughts.
On the Warhammer Community site, GW makes the argument that this new version of underworlds make it easier for new players to jump onboard. They state that there's no longer a need to track down OOP cards and warbands. Do you think this argument holds water? For reference, I've never played Underworlds but I was thinking of picking this set up.
I mean the ‘no need’ thing will come down to the legacy Warscrolls really. I’m the end the biggest upside is they can mothball stuff and not have to produce or support it. Theres not a lot of consumer ‘upside’ on the miniatures themselves be the only thing to remain useable out of the piles of cardboard plunder folks have.
Gw continues to do a great job of narrowing down how many of their products I care about. If Warhammer Quest and Warcry get a similar treatment I'll basically be out of the modern hobby.
Kinda bummed about this one. One the one hand, I like Skaven, and Skyre, so that one new warband looks very interesting to me, but I don't really like the version change invalidating previous purchases, and the change in the boards. The price is also rather high. Kinda glad I didn't get into it a few months back like I was thinking of.
Is the board the same size as two previous boards aligned on the long edges? It looks like it may be to me, so just don't offset them?
so, I've been watching videos on this and have some interest. But at 130 cdn that is tough. I can get the new kill team starter for that which comes with more. I dunno. tough
"Embergard, gersberms!" 😲
Yeah bad timing for me. I had just picked up last year's starter box. It was half the price of this one. I take too long to spin up for purchase to play. Perhaps I'll buy in again when price drops.
Would you recommend this set for beginners?. I need a new game for geek night. Wondered how easy it was to pick up?. Can you play with this set or do you need to buy a lot of additional stuff to get the most out of it? Thanks 🙏
It’s definitely super beginner friendly
I'm bummed about Emberguard.. Not just because my so far complete WHU collection of cards and boards are no useless. I can still use my warbands. And good on them for making it print and play. The game is probably still really, really good! But the change in the looks of the cards is just so lack-luster. We had beautiful, cool and unique art on every card before. Now we've got a very sterile looking card with a photo of some models. It has less immersion that way, and feels more of a dime-a-dozen boardgame type. At a higher price..
There will likely be a cheaper starter set using existing minis at some point.
Generally though, I find everything GW have done lately is just remakes, sequels and prequels. It all lacks innovation and interest. I miss Silver Tower, that Macragge game and all those things where they just experimented with cool ideas.
I had high hopes for coop Kill Team but that seems to be a bit of a damp squib too.
I’m surprised you don’t think this is a perfect Christmas morning box for your kids. I think the card mechanics look way more streamlined than the last edition; my biggest issue was how complex the cards and warbands got. You get this box and will eventually get the warband rules for all of your old stuff and you can try out decks with all of them. I think I would’ve loved this new system as a kid. Definitely going to introduce it to my students in board game club.
I’d pick Spearhead over this likely for the price point and ease of entry. Much less ‘combo oriented’ and the scoring system is way more straightforward for teaching tabletop.
Not that this isn’t a great entry level game (it is!) I just think it’s aimed higher up that tween to teen range.
Honestly happy for the clean edition. I tried dipping my toe in a few years back and found the learning curve steep with board set up strategy, etc. It seems like this edition has eliminated that and sort of leveled certain aspects of the game to make it friendlier for new players.
Changing the board size was the final straw for me-nope. I just want the Skaven separately.
I wouldn't have bought this if I wasn't a Skaven collector. I don't mind the game but there are next to no people interested in playing it within my wargaming club.
As an existing all in Underworlds player this is a sour grapes 'feels bad' moment. No surprise with GW breaking a game.. Obviously they've done this before.. Still feels bad that all my cards are dead. The cheapo pictures over art is another 'ugh' decision.. Sigh. I do like the Skaven models a lot. So there's that.
Games Workshop needs its name changed to New Edition for more Money Shop
Bring back the Ash Rep 😜
@Lords of War Games and Hobbies and I are on it
Well, uh, at least I will be able to free up some room on my shelf now? I have one core box full of boards (including ones GW sold separately), one full of cards (Including plenty of Rivals decks) and one full of tokens. Now they have reset things, I only need one box. Yay?
130$!!! So it's a NO NO! ..lol ;)
Expensive yet they cheaped out on card artwork with mini photos only. Not impressed.
No body plays this game currently - they needed to sell this a as a loss leader product to get it in players hands. Compare this to the upcoming KT starter set.... the value is not there.
While pricey, it seems to be addressing so many issues in one go. Not going to jump in just yet( not been feeling the warbands of late ) but I think this is much better than the incomplete experiences of the Kill Team and Warcry starter sets.
Yes, they need to release 40K Underworlds! Make it happen GW!
This is the first non-sensical review I've seen from GMG. You literally said the previous edition was great for new players, but this one isn't because it's not different enough from the previous version. So which is it? Too different, or not different enough?
Plus the price point is the same as all GWs intro/starter box price points these days--no doubt I agree that the price is too high, but that's because their across their entire product line is too high. This box is in line with their other similar boxes. To call this one box out, doesn't make sense.
If you play the game, you'll see a fantastic job of streamlining without removing the difficult tactical decision points--that's great stuff for new players, many of whom were put off by the unnecessarily complex flow-chart card-timing game play of the previous edition. THAT is exactly what is needed to bring in new players.
This is not a game that is somehow just for the existing player base--although it's great that they are making it as compatible as they have...it's literally for (and achieves) exactly what you say over and over again in your video that you hoped this edition would--a great Christmas morning onramp to the world of hobby gaming, which also doesn't alienate the current player base.
(the use of miniature photography rather than painted art is a sad, but it also increases the innate understanding of exactly who the card affects)
This edition game-wise will be wonderful for new players; I just think they've made a rubicon move where they're also counting on a large portion of existing players to come along too to provide the ecosystem for those new players to have opponents in. It's a complex problem but I think in particular the incompatibility of boards and fully Rivals Deck Edition being locked into the one box is going create an emotional reaction. That reaction is going to be vocal, so when new players research the environment they're buying into at the current price point (which is 200% the Shadespire Price of only about five years ago) you've got a sticky launch. I think simply keeping the old boards compatible (you could just mandate them lining up in the rules) as well as the Universal Rivals decks from the last wave being compatible as well (which could have been written around with an FAQ if anything got sticky) would have seen this launch be much more successful and allowed the great actual game design to shine.
Sorry that wasn't as clear in this one, but this property in particular is a bit hard to articulate on as it is SO component heavy (Decks, Boards, etc) and the price itself has climbed from 'very easy to take a chance on' to 'this is a big investment and they keep making parts of that investment go away).
@@GuerrillaMiniatureGames Fair points. Thanks for the more in-depth insight to your thinking.
I think, however, that the move to make everything more available and re-worked to be fully compatible is a larger boon than a negative. The biggest complain I've heard from the previous edition is that so little was available unless you were snatching up pre-orders before the AoS and Warcry players got em.
Balancing universal decks with custom warscrolls, separates the big card deck expense from the cheap and easy to disperse half-page unique warscroll datasheets. This *should* make it easier to balance, but each team will still be unique as befits the models, and production won't require coordinating both the plastic and cards which GW has been unable to do efficiently on an ongoing basis.
But, perhaps you're right and it'll die on the vine because the existing player base is complaining--that is certainly a possibility!
Sadly, this will be a pass for me at that price point.
Cant agree with you at all, its been simplified to draw in new people while still being recognisable to existing players.
If it is indeed aimed at new people, Ash's point about the high price tag being a barrier to entry is totally valid. It's odd to make an on-boarding product so expensive while not significantly overhauling the rules -- the 1.5 version conundrum that Ash mentions.
@jcpouzols £54 from third party over here so I don't see that as expensive compared to any other board game cheaper than a full price video game. It's not a million miles off from the Canadian price given Google's conversion rates. So no I can't agree it's massively over priced.
I think this is a great product for new players. It was confusing to figure out how to start Underworlds previously. I think existing players are hurt the most. All of their existing cards and boards were invalidated. I still think there's going to be an easy on ramp for existing players since they probably have a few warbands that can still be played. The upcoming box of cards for warbands will make it even easier for existing players to migrate to the new edition.
What's the point of doing a review before you play the game?
The game hasn’t substantially changed to be honest. Theres going to be some subtle tactical changes to the scoring of the new decks but without context or being able to see the catalogue of other warbands there’s not much to review here apart from the aggregate product itself. This isn’t a ‘tactical’ review; it’s a product review.
Sorry mate I know its prob just an honest misstake but you released this an hour early which hurts us other creators that wait till 10 am brittish time to release. All the best!
Clocks went back last weekend across Europe.. That doesn't happen until this weekend in Canada. It is probably something mixed up there.
Yeah, simply a case of the usual release time set on TH-cam that was last week (when it was correct) becoming incorrect today, and literally only for today as our clocks also go back tomorrow.
Weirdly enough I think the original underworlds was a response to how strong the competitive X-Wing scene was at the time, and how well that game was selling. The 'competitive' angle was always a bit scary and probably something that put off some people.
I'm excited about this edition because there's lots of things I never bothered with (board placement, learning every warband deck etc) being removed and some positive changes. I'm just hoping enough people get it that there is a community for it.
I do wish it was cheaper, the main reason I have a stack of (mostly unplayed) Underworlds boxes because they were literally too cheap to say no to :D
I agree, at that time I was big into competitive X-Wing and Underworlds was a fantastic game even at launch from a competitive point of view. Like all other GW products, it has succumbed to rules bloat and needed a restart.