My Discord Debate with Muslims on Risqué Heavenly Pleasures (Part 2)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ย. 2024
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What's in the wine bottle in Heaven? "Magic" But what's the magic made of? "Magic"
Every time muslim tries to explain he makes it worse than the other person.
Something struck me as very odd by the answer "I haven't been there, I can't answer that" They are very ready to give answers to other things based on what they want Heaven to be. As soon as it goes beyond a simple answer and they actually think about the implications, they don't know. What does it matter if you know or not when you don't know about the things you have already given answers for? Can they not see that if they can't answer then they shouldn't pretend they still have answers?
The top priority is to see His face. This is how Jesus asks us to live now. We should make that our top priority. Now, to extend that and connect it with what else they have said, there is no boredom in Heaven so we will always see him and it will always be enough. Why even have these other things? (Why even promise these other things?)
When you said we are in Allahs bosom I was like 💡😱💡 while 3 seconds later I hear “I don’t get it” and can you not be disrespectful” and honestly I think there mind is completely in the gutter so much so that completely miss a point an think to sexual innuendos.
Being in the presence of god is the most important thing. Yet Christian heaven where all you do is be in the presence of god is a boring version of heaven?
Bro I would say you are very considerate to the Muslim brothers, you even give them time to cope and cry together at the end.. They really need that to suppress their reasoning to remain in the cult..
Heaven isn’t a breeding ground for all of our desires. That’s what earth is for 😂Diddy don’t need to go to heaven to have freak offs he did that here. If that’s sinful here what would make it not sinful in heaven if that’s what he had desired
🍿🤣📚🧐🧠🧬🔬👍✝️🙏
Islam makes no sense. No sense at all. Thanks for this. I'm so lucky to have stumbled upon this random conversation.
But I guess it isn't so random I have been looking at debates lately.
Islam makes perfect sense, and agrees with the heart, soul, and mind.
Do you really think a faith which simply says to surrender yourself to the one & only Creator, and to do good to His creation, and repent before Judgement Day when all justice will be fulfilled-makes “no sense” in comparison to a faith which claims that a three-person God decided to send the second member of their godhead into a Palestinian baby 2,000 years ago, to intentionally die on a Roman cross as a human sacrifice for sins, and that nothing you do matters except your mental belief in the value of that person’s blood in paying for your alleged inherent evil nature passed down to you from the first man?
Honestly, tell me which one makes more sense.
Christians are leaving their faith in waves, citing the confusing doctrines of the Trinity, the incarnation, the alleged sacrifice of Christ, and other puzzling beliefs that the Bible itself doesn’t even seem to teach. And they find incredible comfort in the simple message of Islam-which is to worship God alone and do good in gratefulness to God, who promises His grace and mercy to all sincere repentant believers-just as Jesus himself taught.
The Qur’an and Jesus are 100% aligned. But Paul and the Church are the real founders of Christianity-who have led you away from the true faith OF Jesus, to following a religion _ABOUT_ Jesus.
And so I call you back to that original message, which is repentance & monotheism. Just as Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus the son of Mary all collectively taught ❤
Peace.
@@celestialknight2339 Firstly, Islam does not agree with the soul or the mind. I'll give you the heart, because the heart is deceitful.
Secondly, it does make 1000x more sense that God would incarnate to not only give us the perfect example, but to bear the sins of the world and allow us to rise up to Heaven despite any sins we have committed. And if you don't understand the need for repentance and adherence to God's will, don't bother talking about Christian belief.
Does it make more sense for God to send Mohammed to be His perfect example for all time? Does it make sense for God to be without word (your Quran) and for the word of God to not also be God? It is total nonsense. And this is why Muslims are leaving in droves, 2/3 mosques closed in Iran, leaders panicking about the "avalanche of apostasy", etc. And guess what? Orthodox Christianity is booming.
The Quran and Jesus are NOT aligned. Jesus calls God "Father", claims to be God, drinks wine, etc. all of which the Quran condemns. Funny how you site Paul as the real founder of Christianity, straight from the Dawah script. But why Paul? Paul who met the resurrected Christ, Paul who the apostles affirmed, Paul who was divinely inspired? The Church is not a founder of Christianity lol, unless you mean the Church founded the Church? 😂
And so I call you to be sincere, and read the Bible and the Quran from an objective lens as best you can.
@@Belisarius_IC_XC_NIKA All of your arguments are null and void.
God did not come as a human, and the Bible itself condemns this:
_”Yet is it really possible for God to dwell with humans on earth? Behold! The heavens, even the highest heavens, cannot contain You! How much less this temple which I have built!”_ ~ 2 Chronicles 6:18
God does not need the shedding of blood to forgive sins, and I already refuted this in detail in my last response to you. Moreover, Jesus could not have paid for your sins in the first place, since he would have needed to suffer in Hell for eternity-which is the punishment you were going to face. So either Jesus suffers the same punishment as you-but then remains in conscious torment to this day (God forbid)-or he failed to properly pay for your full punishment, in which case you have no atonement or redemption. Pick your poison. Or better yet-seek the antidote, which is Islam, the faith taught by Jesus Christ himself, and all the righteous prophets of old.
The Prophet Muhammad is nowhere described by the Qur’an as a “perfect example for all time”-but is described simply as a human messenger who delivered God’s message. And it is that MESSAGE-not the man behind it-which matters most. And that is the same message as taught by all the prophets before him: which is to surrender to the one Creator, and do good to His creation. Everything else is commentary.
*_”Muhammad was nothing more than a messenger-before whom other messengers had already come and gone! If he were to die or get killed, would any of you turn back on your heels? Yet whoever who turns back on their heels shall not harm God in any way. And God shall soon reward the grateful!”_* ~ _The Qur’an, Sūrah Āl-Imrān, 3:144_
Next, you are right that it makes absolutely no sense for the “word of God” to be God. Otherwise, the mercy of God would be God Himself. God’s knowledge would be God Himself, and so on. The attributes of God are NOT God Himself-they are simply His qualities which are manifestations & emanations of His actions and nature, yet not equivalent to Him as a whole. The prologue of John is a late Hellenistic fabrication never once preached by Mark, Matthew, or Luke (let alone Jesus)-and you somehow want us to read it as:
*_”In the beginning was God. And God was with God. And God was God.”_*
Does that make any sense to you at all?
You cite Iran as an example of apostasy. I can only laugh. Iran is less than a measly 5% of the world’s massive 2-Billion global Muslim population (which is set to surpass Christianity by ~2050 according to Pew Research). You only hear about them because of Western propaganda, even though they’re in fact substantially atheist & agnostic according to modern studies-and only Islam by name and festival traditions. But as God Himself says:
*_”If you turn away, He will replace you with another people-and they will not be like you.”_* ~ The Qur’an 47:38
And that is what we’re seeing in the West as conversions skyrocket, all praise & thanks be to the God of Jesus.
“The Qur’an and Jesus are not aligned” - ‘Father’ was simply an old Biblical epithet for God’s loving nature & close relationship to righteous believers, as seen in Psalm 2:7, Exodus 4:22, and even Matthew 5:9, including many others-where countless individuals are likewise called ‘God’s son(s)’. Christians simply exalted this innocent title, thanks to Roman & Greek Hellenistic pagan influence, which ultimately led to the development of the doctrine of the Trinity (canonized in 381 A.D. - nearly 350 years after Christ).
As for wine, Islam teaches that the prophets could have different laws (like the Sabbath, for example, but their core message was the same). One faith, variant laws. There is no contradiction. Plus, one reading of the Qur’an actually allows for light wine, but forbids strong drink & alcohol (the Arabic words used in each passage is different). Either way-this does not compromise our theology in the least.
Finally as for Paul, you’re just assuming that he was inspired. You brought no evidence whatsoever, even though he himself said that Satan can come in the form of an angel of light (which is effectively what he saw). He was never a disciple or real apostle, and spoke to the historical Jesus not even an iota-nor walked or broke bread with him even once. Yet he actually INSULTED the real disciples of Jesus in Galatians (calling them the ‘so-called apostles’) and referring to His aberrant message as ‘MY Gospel’ while constantly fighting others who disagreed with him, including Peter himself who he explicitly says he “confronted him to his face”. 2 Peter-the only time where Paul is clearly supported-has been deemed as a forgery but neutral secular scholars on the basis of literary & historical evidence, while Acts shows Paul to be a hypocrite who performed sacrifices in the Temple despite preaching that Jesus was the final sacrifice, and that obedience to the Law was no longer necessary. As Paul himself said-I am a Jew to a Jew, and a gentile to a gentile.
*_”If through my lie, God’s truth is enhanced and brings Him greater glory, why am I still judged for merely being a sinner?”_* ~ _Romans 3:7_
I have read both the Bible & the Qur’an. I believe they both come from the same common source (God)-but the New Testament definitely has human influence and tampering as well. The Qur’an is clear and lucid, and clarifies all things. And you would do well to accept it, rather than denying God’s final revelation to your own peril.
Of course, the choice is yours. But the truth is clear-and the truth comes from your Lord. And God is by no means the author of confusion.
lol worthy
What server are you debating on?
There's a link to a specific discord in the description
25:12 the guy that came in said to the egyptian abdool that he must stop and run and dont talk further. The egyptian guy said i want to know how far i will come with this. The other said that everything is recorded and that the host will cut and make vids about it... the egyptian guy said something what I didnt understand and get the message ..🤨
When you said we are in Allahs bosom I was like 💡😱💡 while 3 seconds later I hear “I don’t get it” and can you not be disrespectful” and honestly I think there mind is completely in the gutter so much so that completely miss a point an think to sexual innuendos.
The constant interruptions when you try to explain and clarify everything is just ridiculous and insufferable.
“Christianity is the only religion that can explain why Hitler would be there” (i.e. in Heaven)
Yes, Rob. You’re absolutely right. Because Christianity may very well be the only existing faith that would even ALLOW Hitler to be in Paradise to begin with. That’s EXACTLY the whole problem. It is injustice in its purest form. And nothing of what Christ taught in the first place.
As for your poor deflection regarding “Hitler reciting the Shahāda” - the Qur’an already responds to this silly speculation directly by explicitly declaring:
*_”Repentance is NOT available for those who commit all sorts of evils, until when death confronts one of them, he says, “Now I repent!” nor for those who die faithless. Such people-We have prepared for them a painful torment.”_* ~ _The Qur’an __4:18_
And the Pharaoh is a perfect example of this; who, after all the evil he did, said the following at the brink of death:
*_”…Until, when he was about to drown, he cried out, “I believe that there is no god except the One the Children of Israel believe in! And I am of those who submit!”_*
*_-Now?…When you had rebelled before, and been an evil corrupter?_*
*_Today We shall preserve your body, so that you may serve as a sign for future generations after you. But indeed, most of humanity are heedless of Our signs.”_*
~ _The Qur’an 10:90-91_
How is it a problem that God is all-merciful? Are you perfect and sinless? No. So you are in the same category as Hitler, you are a sinner. Just because you have less sins than Hitler, it doesn't mean you suddenly meet the criteria to enter Heaven. Without someone else bearing your own sins (which only God can do), you do not deserve to enter Heaven because you are a covered in sin and that sin has a price.
Because God is all-loving and all-merciful, He took on the sins of the world. This does not mean that everybody goes to Heaven, but only the people who follow Christ (with exceptions for people who never hear about Him, as if they had, they would). So if Hitler was in Heaven, he would be a changed man. But according to you, that's a problem and unjust? So what makes you any less deserving of Hell than Hitler? Your 'good works' are as filthy rags in the eyes of God.
@@Belisarius_IC_XC_NIKA God does not need the shedding of blood to forgive sins. This is a false belief taught to you by Paul-not Jesus, who simply taught repentance & sincere obedience to God’s will (which is literally the definition of the Arabic word _’Islām’)._
Instead, God simply wants the shedding of your tears, and of your ego-to acknowledge your sins, cry out to Him for forgiveness, and change your ways for the better. There is neither justice nor mercy in the pagan-inspired belief in human sacrifice for atonement. It is not just because the guilty are not actually reformed, and their due punishment is placed on an innocent soul; and it is not merciful because God did not actually forgive, but demanded the payment in full. Yet even Christ said in the Lord’s Prayer:
_”Forgive us our debts as we forgive those indebted to us.”_
When you forgive a debt, do you still seek the full repayment of that debt from the person? Of course not-or else your forgiveness is meaningless. Likewise, God can easily forgive our trespasses if we sincerely repent and right our wrongs as best we can, while living upstanding lives for His sake & according to His ways. No blood, no payment-no sacrifice needed.
*_”Now go and learn what this means: I desire MERCY-NOT sacrifice! For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”_* ~ _Matthew 9:13_
The nail in the coffin for Christians is the Old Testament-the book they inherited against their own will, but so desperately wish they had nothing to do with. Because in those marvelous scriptures-which oppose credal Church dogma like day opposes night-it is crystal clear that God is not about to send a human sacrifice of His own alleged son, but in fact condemns it as detestable (Deuteronomy 12:31). He forgave the entire city of Nineveh (to whom Jonah was sent) without any sacrifice needed. He did the same for King David who cried out with a broken spirit, and called THAT his “sacrifice” (Psalm 51:17). And in Ezekiel 18-the prophet dedicates the whole chapter to refuting, condemning, and destroying the false idea that ANYONE but the guilty should pay for their own sins. Yet all of this is exactly what Christians believe, against the words of God Himself.
Islam restored the truth of the prophets, being revealed by God Himself. Yet Christianity has gone far astray, and tainted their faith with the innovations of others. So I humbly urge you to not transgress in your beliefs beyond the truth, and to not follow the opinions of people in the past who were lost, and who misled many, and who themselves strayed off the even path.