Do I miss something at 46:26? Why not tuck away the fanatic in hand and put both in play next turn for instant 2x4/4's instead of constructs? That also runs away from tendrils kill with lifeline.
It’s crazy how your statement of “nobody fair and honest is playing volcanic island” is the actually complete opposite of a year and a half ago. Before, if they played delta or sea, it was instant storm. Now it’s the other way around!
Plus Troll, plus cantrips, plus Life from the Loam. It's certainly aggressive and I don't know if I like it, but the upside is that if it allows you to do a broken card-drawy thing a turn earlier, that may be worth a card. You could see it as a quasi Lotus Petal / Dark Ritual that also helps with color-fixing.
Lets appreciate how each of these mechanics is arguably making legacy miserable right now. But all in one deck are damn funny. fanatic taking back fanatic takig back nadu, on a board with psychic frog and 2 active sagas, starting to equip your shuko. Cant help but laugh :D what a sick beast of a deck :D
I agree wholeheartedly on entomb vs reanimate. I run entomb in a couple of my casual EDH decks. Most of the time it’s just a tutor that makes you work for it in that context, and banning reanimate puts you in a similar context.
At 29:02 if you haven’t accidentally shuffled, you actually could have stacked fanatic furthest down, then troll, then shuko on top. Draw shuko off ponder. Turn 2 draw troll and play the delta. Turn 3 draw fanatic, respond to the miracle trigger by fetching and cycling troll, then hopefully resolve fanatic to have a 6/5 and 4/4 lifelink
At 46:00, what was the thought process behind not topping the Metamorphosis Fanatic that was in your hand with the brainstorm? You had access to 1B mana and could have cast it for the Miracle cost, and gotten the other Fanatic that was in your graveyard back.
The rage over vexxing bauble is just correct. You are right and just to be upset that the broken decks got more tools to beat fair decks. Let's look at a list of cards that are used by insert best deck to beat down lower tiers Bowmasters Bauble Psychic frog Nadu The one ring Have we noticed a trend yet? In cedh, people complained that their crypts were banned. "But helps lesser decks compete" but the abusers of this mana were blue decks casting rhystic and turbo decks casting naus. The fast mana had to go for the same reasons bauble has to go. Broken tools will always be used to broken ends, not gallantly employed against a different no longer played threat
Wholly agreed. The Crypt ban needed a more deft handling, to be honest. If they had asked me for notes, I probably would have told them to hit a piece of the Oracle kill, along with Nadu and Dockside, and make it abundantly clear punches will not be pulled, we are awake and coming for your fast mana. The fact they had tacitly endorsed that format being such a mess for so long made people too comfortable paywall stomping their locals
isn't it so sad that nonblue decks get tools to fight back sometimes? (btw you missed initiative/monarch) maybe we can go back to snowoko piles for the poor widdle blue players, or unban top/probe for miracles fun
@@alecwoodard9464 Soft anouncing bans before they actually happen is just a way for people who keep up with the news to trick unaware kids to buy their soon to be banned cards.
Game design and theory is honestly just a fun mental puzzle. League of legends has been suffering the "we designed this item to be perfect for bruisers but ADCs took it and we're better with it than bruisers ever will." It's why cards should be designed without a specific deck or deck type in mind, but rather to be generically good and allow the hive mind to find where they best fit in.
This deck makes me think of that commercial where there's a little pig hanging out the back window in a car, holding two pinwheels and going WEEEEEEE! Truly this is what midrange hopes it could ever be but in Legacy this level of awesomeness can be achieved.
Honestly it feels like Vexing Bauble is better for Vintage than Legacy, in Vintage it actually did enable non-blue decks to exist and it was getting cut from the combo decks before the restriction hit.
@@rekenner I mean, if you Vexing Bauble pass, you aren't doing anything to advance your own boardstate, mono white initiative was starting to trim bauble because bauble pass wasn't a good enough opening hand
I think that round four was the meanest I've ever heard you be to an opponent. Which is deserved because they tanked for seven minutes on Infernal Tutor-LED despite the fact it's _their_ deck that they should be expected to know how to play, but damn.
I agree on the vexing bauble vent, but it was the same argument i heard a lot use for orcish bowmaster: "it`s to punish blue decks!" yeah guess wich decks play it? The blue ones, and the one who manages to have the last orc standing wins. And guess wich decks were the most effected? the ones with mana dorks or x-1 creatures in general, mostly green. Do you remember when combo elves was a viable archetype(no the nadu bullshit they call combo elves these days doesn`t count)? yeah, me neither.
What you say about Bowmaster is true, but I think the cards are so different that comparing it to Bauble doesn't make sense. Orcish Bowmaster is a card that indeed was played by blue decks and it also wrecked fair green decks. Meanwhile Bauble isn't being played by blue decks, and it also doesn't wreck fair green decks. I get that people like seeing blue players get defeated, but really if blue isn't strong, Legacy is people combo-killing each other on turn three. And in that world fair green decks are less viable than they are now. Fair green Legacy decks can defeat blue FoW decks, but not combo decks generally speaking.
The anger at 44:38 is definitely felt. As a Timmy I didn't think about how much those Blue players keep that Johnny in check. I take back everything I said to praise the bauble
In Legacy, combo isn't "Johnny trying cute things" but more "spike relentlessly grinding people by combo killing them on turn three, using a netdeck." In Legacy, free counter magic is the only thing that stops the format from being a sea of combo decks goldfishing each other.
This is like my favourite kind of nonsense in Magic: the transformational sideboard, except this time it's maindeck! Endlessly entertaining to me you can beat your opponent up with the reanimator package game 1 and then game 2 they have to deal with a surprise bird
Ah, so this is what John Darnielle of The Mountain Goats (who as it happens has played at WOTC HQ and curated an all-Mountains Secret Lair drop) meant when he sang in Amy, aka Spent Gladiator 1, "Do every stupid thing that makes you feel alive"
Expecting the rank and file Twitter mages to have an understanding of format ecosystems is a very tall order, Brian. You’re completely right about Bauble - and decks like Maverick and Cradle needing blue decks to beat up on - but you’ll never convince the hordes.
Man the vexing bauble is salty... But I understand it it's literally making you feel like there is no deck to fight them right now. I guess the only thing to do in this scenario is "if you can't beat them, join them" :C
It's a 17 land deck so you're probably only casting One Ring by like turn 4 or 5. And in Legacy context, turn 4 or 5 One Ring isn't actually more OP than let's say Nadu is.
I actually played against an opp on this deck in one of the side events at EW in Pittsburgh, definitely an interesting deck. Really cool league (minus the nonsense that bauble created vs forge, which would otherwise have been an interesting game)
@@rob3681 no kidding, that's awesome! I was playing tempo doomsday and ended up getting you in one of the post board games with those massive goyfs lol
The deck is too slow to create pressure after Thoughtseize, given there are only 2 of them. There should be 2 Veils in the 75 somewhere, fluster is just... meh. Commit to Nadu more.
Yeah. If you're going to play Mox Diamond and Force of Will, and accept that level of card disadvantage, you should probably have a reliable proactive plan to get a huge advantage in the early game. And I think you're right that this list is a bit short on that.
Another thing is that there has always been a pattern of combo disruption being used in tempo decks and vice versa. For instance, Pyroblast being used to push through combo (Painter) and disrupt blue control decks (Delver, etc.). Consign to Memory being used as disruption as well as to push through Dreadnought. Flusterstorm being used by combo decks and Delver decks. If a card is good in combo, it can be good in tempo. If a card is good in tempo, it can be good in combo. Both styles of decks are trying to carefully manage their resource and gas so they can just barely win. Vexing Bauble play patterns is thus not a surprise. And you keep winning anyway.
Problem is that without free counter magic, Legacy becomes a sea of uninteractive combo decks killing each other on turn three. If you like playing fair decks, well those typically just roll over and die if they're faced with a competitive Legacy combo deck. And the only reason there's not that much combo being played in Legacy is... free counter magic.
@@lightworker2956 I disagree. There are many cards that stop combo, such as stony silence, lavinia, containment priest, tormods crypt among many others. The reason free countermagic is bullshit IMO is that force of will (and to some extent force of negation) has almost zero downside as they can go in any blue deck with tons of cantrips. Brainstorm into force of will + blue card is the most idiotic thing i know in mtg. im not sure why you claim that combo is rare in legacy. oops all spells, painter, doomsday, tendrils, ad nauseum etc. are all extremely common. Playing lavinia etc. has an actual cost involved, as they represent cards that occupy a slot in your deck and might be useless against your opponent, so those cards are immediately fair to me. If force of will required you to exile 2 blue cards instead of 1, then i would think its fair. Also, consign to memory is a great counter to vexing bauble, but people whine because they would rather have free interaction instead of cards that actually have a cost to beat their opponent.
The problem is that's ultimately the exact same outcome as not forcing it unless you specifically have two Forces and two blue cards. Combo decks have happily played Veil of Summer because '1 mana - Force of Will doesn't work for just this turn" is often all they need. It's the most turbo-charged version of the already reasonable Defense Grid.
@drpibisback7680 In the matchups where storm is not a factor, it's correct to counter the baubles. That way when you draw your next force it will work.
"Oops all design mistakes" looks way too effective and ridiculously fun to play.
That's just what cedh midrange is, too.
Or najeela in tiny leaders
Tiny leaders mention! Ajani was worse but yeah Najeela can grab whatever MH cards she wants, and Derevi enables the deck to run Nadu.
@@midnalight6419 "oops all cards that trigger off of your opponents game actions that we refuse to ban"
All that’s missing is yuriko
I was going to call it "Oops all format staples" but your idea is way better.
Last round opponent just believed in Yugi and was rewarded that was hilarious.
Spoils into top deck at 1 is maybe the greatest play of all time
Half of this deck did not exist two years ago
Reserved list + fetch land mana base
Spells from when spells were allowed to be good
Threats from FIRE design
@rekenner the best that magic has to offer honestly
And will hopefully be banned
Does anything exist man
maybe half of this deck won't exist two years from now :shrug:
Do I miss something at 46:26? Why not tuck away the fanatic in hand and put both in play next turn for instant 2x4/4's instead of constructs? That also runs away from tendrils kill with lifeline.
It’s crazy how your statement of “nobody fair and honest is playing volcanic island” is the actually complete opposite of a year and a half ago. Before, if they played delta or sea, it was instant storm. Now it’s the other way around!
loved the video, thanks for playing my deck :D! definitely agree vexing bauble and probably at least 8 cards from my deck need to be banned.
Wow, that final round was absolutely wild.
The last opponent lives by “play to your outs”
22:04 My heart fell out of my butt after hearing that. One of the best things I've ever heard you say.
This is the deck, Officer.
I know my rights. I thought this was America!
17 Land mox diamond deck is certainly a choice
Its also a ponder and brainstorm deck soo… 🤷♂️
It also seemed to work.
Troll definitely counts so 21 lands
Plus Troll, plus cantrips, plus Life from the Loam.
It's certainly aggressive and I don't know if I like it, but the upside is that if it allows you to do a broken card-drawy thing a turn earlier, that may be worth a card. You could see it as a quasi Lotus Petal / Dark Ritual that also helps with color-fixing.
This deck is a riot to watch, but I'm starting to desire an eternal format where all supplemental sets are de facto banned
Old School, then?
Tune in for a few quick minutes before work and I’m rewarded with Thoughtseize your Lumbering Megasloth.
I absolutely love that Spoils of the Vault is on the “get Brian to sign this” list. If my tech is going to go sideways, I’m glad it became a thing.
Lets appreciate how each of these mechanics is arguably making legacy miserable right now. But all in one deck are damn funny. fanatic taking back fanatic takig back nadu, on a board with psychic frog and 2 active sagas, starting to equip your shuko. Cant help but laugh :D what a sick beast of a deck :D
This reminds me of those fake game ads that take elements from a dozen iconic games, except it’s legacy powerhouses
Last opponent just really wanted that win
I agree wholeheartedly on entomb vs reanimate. I run entomb in a couple of my casual EDH decks. Most of the time it’s just a tutor that makes you work for it in that context, and banning reanimate puts you in a similar context.
Bahahahahhhh game one thoughtseize into "WHAT THE FUCK" had me rolling
I like to think his opponent had the same reaction when he followed up the two frogs with a nadu
At 29:02 if you haven’t accidentally shuffled, you actually could have stacked fanatic furthest down, then troll, then shuko on top. Draw shuko off ponder. Turn 2 draw troll and play the delta. Turn 3 draw fanatic, respond to the miracle trigger by fetching and cycling troll, then hopefully resolve fanatic to have a 6/5 and 4/4 lifelink
I was gonna say this too. Seems like a solid line if they don't get the mana for kozi command in time.
At 46:00, what was the thought process behind not topping the Metamorphosis Fanatic that was in your hand with the brainstorm? You had access to 1B mana and could have cast it for the Miracle cost, and gotten the other Fanatic that was in your graveyard back.
The rage over vexxing bauble is just correct. You are right and just to be upset that the broken decks got more tools to beat fair decks.
Let's look at a list of cards that are used by insert best deck to beat down lower tiers
Bowmasters
Bauble
Psychic frog
Nadu
The one ring
Have we noticed a trend yet?
In cedh, people complained that their crypts were banned. "But helps lesser decks compete" but the abusers of this mana were blue decks casting rhystic and turbo decks casting naus.
The fast mana had to go for the same reasons bauble has to go. Broken tools will always be used to broken ends, not gallantly employed against a different no longer played threat
Wholly agreed. The Crypt ban needed a more deft handling, to be honest. If they had asked me for notes, I probably would have told them to hit a piece of the Oracle kill, along with Nadu and Dockside, and make it abundantly clear punches will not be pulled, we are awake and coming for your fast mana. The fact they had tacitly endorsed that format being such a mess for so long made people too comfortable paywall stomping their locals
Really don’t agree about bauble lol however its hilarious watching blue players whine nonstop that they aren’t the only permission players
@@rathashira Pro tip for you bud, pretending not to care doesn’t get you nearly as far in real life as it does on Chan boards
isn't it so sad that nonblue decks get tools to fight back sometimes? (btw you missed initiative/monarch) maybe we can go back to snowoko piles for the poor widdle blue players, or unban top/probe for miracles fun
@@alecwoodard9464 Soft anouncing bans before they actually happen is just a way for people who keep up with the news to trick unaware kids to buy their soon to be banned cards.
Round four was something special. Pure, distilled salt in my BoshNRoll videos? Oh my!
14:10 could not stop laughing at this sequence of events… deck is gorgeous
Game design and theory is honestly just a fun mental puzzle. League of legends has been suffering the "we designed this item to be perfect for bruisers but ADCs took it and we're better with it than bruisers ever will." It's why cards should be designed without a specific deck or deck type in mind, but rather to be generically good and allow the hive mind to find where they best fit in.
3:52 - hardest I've laughed during a Bosh video yet.
Oh my gosh the last round 😭
This deck makes me think of that commercial where there's a little pig hanging out the back window in a car, holding two pinwheels and going WEEEEEEE!
Truly this is what midrange hopes it could ever be but in Legacy this level of awesomeness can be achieved.
Daaang Cool Rob strikes again. Still the coolest of us.
Honestly it feels like Vexing Bauble is better for Vintage than Legacy, in Vintage it actually did enable non-blue decks to exist and it was getting cut from the combo decks before the restriction hit.
But Vintage it felt like it was way overemphasizing coin flip, which is a different shitty problem
@@rekenner I mean, if you Vexing Bauble pass, you aren't doing anything to advance your own boardstate, mono white initiative was starting to trim bauble because bauble pass wasn't a good enough opening hand
Wow, first time seeing Brian playing the og art of dual lands and FOW instead of the mtgo version
I treated myself to some upgrades
Imagine if this was a yorion pile and you get to flicker your fanatic OwO
I think that round four was the meanest I've ever heard you be to an opponent. Which is deserved because they tanked for seven minutes on Infernal Tutor-LED despite the fact it's _their_ deck that they should be expected to know how to play, but damn.
I agree on the vexing bauble vent, but it was the same argument i heard a lot use for orcish bowmaster: "it`s to punish blue decks!" yeah guess wich decks play it? The blue ones, and the one who manages to have the last orc standing wins. And guess wich decks were the most effected? the ones with mana dorks or x-1 creatures in general, mostly green. Do you remember when combo elves was a viable archetype(no the nadu bullshit they call combo elves these days doesn`t count)? yeah, me neither.
What you say about Bowmaster is true, but I think the cards are so different that comparing it to Bauble doesn't make sense.
Orcish Bowmaster is a card that indeed was played by blue decks and it also wrecked fair green decks.
Meanwhile Bauble isn't being played by blue decks, and it also doesn't wreck fair green decks.
I get that people like seeing blue players get defeated, but really if blue isn't strong, Legacy is people combo-killing each other on turn three. And in that world fair green decks are less viable than they are now. Fair green Legacy decks can defeat blue FoW decks, but not combo decks generally speaking.
Love your salty rants, always good for a laugh
The anger at 44:38 is definitely felt. As a Timmy I didn't think about how much those Blue players keep that Johnny in check. I take back everything I said to praise the bauble
In Legacy, combo isn't "Johnny trying cute things" but more "spike relentlessly grinding people by combo killing them on turn three, using a netdeck."
In Legacy, free counter magic is the only thing that stops the format from being a sea of combo decks goldfishing each other.
At 59:16, Consign does not counter the copy of Chain of Smog as it’s not a trigger but part of the spells resolution.
Damn, glad it didn’t come up!
This is like my favourite kind of nonsense in Magic: the transformational sideboard, except this time it's maindeck! Endlessly entertaining to me you can beat your opponent up with the reanimator package game 1 and then game 2 they have to deal with a surprise bird
Really gave them the bird
Not a legacy we asked for, but a legacy we deserved
Ah, so this is what John Darnielle of The Mountain Goats (who as it happens has played at WOTC HQ and curated an all-Mountains Secret Lair drop) meant when he sang in Amy, aka Spent Gladiator 1, "Do every stupid thing that makes you feel alive"
12:05 --> Nadu on the stack. Opponent is just like "Nah, dude".
It's Commander Masters V: The Universes Beyond Strike First
@26:12 is me when i open a new bosh video every morning
I was just constantly smiling this entire vid.
Round 5 opponent goes to the casino:
Opp: hit me
Dealer: sir, you are at 20
Opp: hit me
Dealer: 21……..FLOOR!
“I like to live dangerously”
44:54 The exact reason Bauble got limited in Vintage, lol
Edit: the whole explanation is perfect Bosh, thanks for that
3:53 "What the fuck" LMAO
Expecting the rank and file Twitter mages to have an understanding of format ecosystems is a very tall order, Brian. You’re completely right about Bauble - and decks like Maverick and Cradle needing blue decks to beat up on - but you’ll never convince the hordes.
It is clear to me from responses who plays legacy and who shuffles up legacy legal cards to get out of the house once in a while.
OMG that spoils...
I don’t normally enjoy watching nadu decks but this sort fun to watch because actually can win without needing nadu to do something
This is probably the worst Nadu deck at Naduing that there’s ever been.
@ that true but enjoying watched with other means
@@BoshNRollso this deck is... Nadudu?
Nadon’t
New banlist idea:
All of the cards in this deck printed since 2022 😅
This is nuts
bosh n roll
This deck looks insane against anyone playing fair. The midrange meta is real.
Who gave you my secret decklist!
Man the vexing bauble is salty... But I understand it it's literally making you feel like there is no deck to fight them right now. I guess the only thing to do in this scenario is "if you can't beat them, join them" :C
I’m terrible at card evaluation.
Is Mox Diamond considered more broken than Chrome Mox because you get to keep your spells?
Diamond puts the card into the graveyard, which is pretty easy to access.
Mox Diamond + Life from the Loam is a really good combo, and those two are often played together. Other than that, Mox Diamond isn't played much.
Any reason to not include a The One Ring in that decklist? ^^'
You need Yorion for that. Go nuts.
It's a 17 land deck so you're probably only casting One Ring by like turn 4 or 5. And in Legacy context, turn 4 or 5 One Ring isn't actually more OP than let's say Nadu is.
Joyfully absurd deck
I actually played against an opp on this deck in one of the side events at EW in Pittsburgh, definitely an interesting deck. Really cool league (minus the nonsense that bauble created vs forge, which would otherwise have been an interesting game)
hey that was definitely me, what were you playing :D? i had some fun games in the side events.
@@rob3681 no kidding, that's awesome! I was playing tempo doomsday and ended up getting you in one of the post board games with those massive goyfs lol
@@TheGingervit1s sweet i remember, that was the first round on thursday i believe! dark ritual into barrowgoyf is definitely a scary move.
@rob3681 yeah that was definitely me then, ggs and it was nice to meet you!
Man, I haven't even watched the matches yet, but if this deck performs well I'm just gonna go play pioneer or premodern or sumthin for awhile...
Ain’t vexing bauble just the best card in legacy rn?
It's missing an Uro but otherwise looks good
We're missing artifact spam and glaring flesh rake :(
what the heck was the last round opponent. stop playing magic, go play the lottery god damn
No wasteland???
not the SAWSS D:
Imagine vexing bauble costing G instead of 1…
Go ahead and talk for 11 minutes Brian. See if we care
day 1 of asking bosh for a pack tierlist smoke em if you got em
Vexing Bauble, Kozileks Command, The One Ring, and Nadu are way more offensive than Psychic Frog to me, but agree they probably all have to go
No entomb ? Entomb for loam seems great
this is the perfect type of nonsense
Day 14: Commenting until we get island and ponder tier lists!
Most of these videos are from Patreon users. If I were Bosh, I'd make that video when I got paid to do it
The deck is too slow to create pressure after Thoughtseize, given there are only 2 of them. There should be 2 Veils in the 75 somewhere, fluster is just... meh. Commit to Nadu more.
Yeah. If you're going to play Mox Diamond and Force of Will, and accept that level of card disadvantage, you should probably have a reliable proactive plan to get a huge advantage in the early game. And I think you're right that this list is a bit short on that.
You keep spouting off about Vexing Bauble and winning anyway. It is clearly a skill gap card.
Another thing is that there has always been a pattern of combo disruption being used in tempo decks and vice versa. For instance, Pyroblast being used to push through combo (Painter) and disrupt blue control decks (Delver, etc.). Consign to Memory being used as disruption as well as to push through Dreadnought. Flusterstorm being used by combo decks and Delver decks. If a card is good in combo, it can be good in tempo. If a card is good in tempo, it can be good in combo. Both styles of decks are trying to carefully manage their resource and gas so they can just barely win. Vexing Bauble play patterns is thus not a surprise. And you keep winning anyway.
I like Vexing Bauble. Free counter magic is equally bullshit. Play actual factual Counterspell and stop whining.
Problem is that without free counter magic, Legacy becomes a sea of uninteractive combo decks killing each other on turn three.
If you like playing fair decks, well those typically just roll over and die if they're faced with a competitive Legacy combo deck. And the only reason there's not that much combo being played in Legacy is... free counter magic.
@@lightworker2956 I disagree. There are many cards that stop combo, such as stony silence, lavinia, containment priest, tormods crypt among many others.
The reason free countermagic is bullshit IMO is that force of will (and to some extent force of negation) has almost zero downside as they can go in any blue deck with tons of cantrips. Brainstorm into force of will + blue card is the most idiotic thing i know in mtg.
im not sure why you claim that combo is rare in legacy. oops all spells, painter, doomsday, tendrils, ad nauseum etc. are all extremely common.
Playing lavinia etc. has an actual cost involved, as they represent cards that occupy a slot in your deck and might be useless against your opponent, so those cards are immediately fair to me. If force of will required you to exile 2 blue cards instead of 1, then i would think its fair.
Also, consign to memory is a great counter to vexing bauble, but people whine because they would rather have free interaction instead of cards that actually have a cost to beat their opponent.
Fun fact that not many know: You can cast Force of Will while Vexing Bauble is on the stack 🫠
The problem is that's ultimately the exact same outcome as not forcing it unless you specifically have two Forces and two blue cards. Combo decks have happily played Veil of Summer because '1 mana - Force of Will doesn't work for just this turn" is often all they need. It's the most turbo-charged version of the already reasonable Defense Grid.
@drpibisback7680 In the matchups where storm is not a factor, it's correct to counter the baubles. That way when you draw your next force it will work.