Peter from carbon speed Xiamen will sell you 34mm wide rims, 58mm deep, with dt swiss clone hubs, with pillar wing 20 spokes (insiders have tested them to be slightly better than CX ray, and about 20 bucks cheaper per set), for 500 USD. I've bought 5 sets and put over 8k km on them in all imaginable conditions, and I'm heavy, and they've gone over 80kmh. Ah, and they're full T800 and therefore light. Run 30mm like champs, and 32C measures 33.5mm. plush AF. That's my benchmark for value :)
That's because those wheels are actual value. These Princeton wheels, just like most ENVE's and the Zipps are wildly overpriced dentists trinkets. Selling carbon bicycle wheels for thousands of dollars and pretending there is some magical type of NASA level space tech in them. New suckers are born every minute. 🙂
I've got a set of 50mm carbon wheels I bought on Taobao (Chinese domestic version of AliExpress) that I paid 3000RMB for (~300 pounds), and they've got kind of no-name brand rims but Sapim spokes and DT Swiss 350 hubs. Over just over 8000km of riding in the last 16 months, they've been absolutely perfect - no issues whatsoever. Especially given the price, they've been downright excellent. I just couldn't imagine paying 10x that amount for a set of wheels, or even 5 times that amount - given how good my experience with my wheels has been, I just don't see the point of spending an enormous amount on a set of wheels.
I have been running a set of Light Bicycle wheels built on Chris King hubs and c-xray spokes. I run tpu tubes and was therefore looking for hooked rims. The Light Bicycle wheels have performed flawlessly since August of 2023. I am really satisfied with the wheels.
At this point you are paying either because you 1) are obsessed with fancy bike parts 2) want to show it off at your coffee ride 3) money is not an issue 4) are above 6w/kg and improving yourself as a cyclist is not an option.
@@CG-99 at least with BMW you can feel the difference when you step on the throttle. The same thing probably cannot be said about these high end bike parts
@@CG-99 Nah, it is not about priorities, it is about good old fashioned ego, plain and simple. If you are an amateur cyclist that is not riding at a seriously high level putting these wheels on your bike is ALL about show. They are absolutely NOT going to make any material difference in your riding whatsoever. It is no different from a person, who is a legitimate 25-30 handicap in golf that goes out and buys a $500 Scotty Cameron putter and a $5,000 set of golf clubs. Those clubs are absolutely NOT going to "magically" make any meaningful difference in your game. You can pretend they will, and if that satisfies your ego there is nothing unlawful with that, but actually believing they are going to somehow by magic transform your mediocre game into something else is simply a bunch of marketing drivel and nonsense! 🙂
For around £1700 you could get a amazing set of hoops from your local bike shop made to your own specification. This is alot of the time overlooked. We need to go into store sit down and do this more often.
Ive been using white industries T11 hubs for over 10 years now and have performed well, 100kg rider too. The wide bearing can be easily replaced with 2 smaller width bearings too and thats in the instructions, im presuming these hubs are the same design. Another great video 👍
The whole industry is insane, nobody needs a £3600 wheelset. If you're at the level where it makes sense to entertain the purported gains over a wheels that are quarter of the price you should be already professionally sponsored and riding what your sponsor wants you to instead. Who is this product for? Rich people with too much money to burn?
If they want performance, they need to lose that fat gat, go to the gym and they will go faster. Its that simple. But most punters are delusional. Just ask any sports scientist testing these people at the lab. You don’t even need testing to go faster 😂
In Belgium you can get custom built 45mm carbon rim wheels with DT Swiss 240 hubs, Sapim CX ray spokes, and brass nipples weighing around 1350 grams for under €1200
The Unior spoke tension gage comes with a calibration pin. Best would be to calibrate and compare against a spoke tension load cell, in which a known spoke is loaded to a known tension, but there doesn't seem to any off-the-shelf "cyclin" jigs for that.
Someone made a jig once, and you can make one easily enough. Tensionmenters are cheap and recyclable though. We have 3 in the shop and replace as one goes off.
Pricing up just the parts for a set of carbon wheels of similar spec is going to be expensive, DT Swiss 240 hubs are insanely expensive for a start. I feel having a chat with your trusted wheel builder about whats really suited to your riding is a way better option than buying off the shelf. You may get most of the performance without the extreme expense and the cachet of having something bespoke (touches nose knowingly). Your wheel builder knows where the sweet spot is and once you get a well made hand built set of wheels there's no going back. 👌👍
Finally a really good analysis of a wheel!!! really well done! Vittoria Corsa Pro 26 30ml latex sealant....one of the best. ;) Personally as a French rider I would have them built up with DT's and switch out the bearing to Sinc Bearings.... ( Or run 180's )
White has steel axles, I’ve got almost 50k miles on mine, they are reliable. Titanium driver has minimal wear. Bearings are easy to find, stack two if you can’t find the dual row one. No special tools required. Zero rust on the pawls. And if you need parts, call them. Nicely made and nicely finished.
On my bikes, I have Corima tubulars (Shimano road bike), Zipp 404 tubulars (Campy CX bike), Roval CLX50 clinchers (Shimano road bike for long rides where I'm scared to flat on tubulars), and a set of alloy Fulcrum rims (Campy) for muddy, winter riding that might prematurely wear out any of the carbon sets. ALL of the carbon wheel sets were acquired as lightly used second hand purchases at a cost of around 3000 pounds for all three sets together. That's more value for my garage than a single set of Princeton Carbonworks.
Great video! Don't know if you take video ideas but I'd love to know your cleaning process (building on the short you put out), especially for gravel & MTB in the UK with the conditions we have. So much online discussion & content is dry American condition focused, whilst in the UK we have maybe a month or so that we ride in truly dry trail conditions and could think about not having to clean after every ride! Cheers for the great content 👍
My mindset over the years: my cheap bikes work just fine->I really want those fancy parts->my cheap bikes works just fine. I would buy more bikes than expensive bikes. Maybe ones with engine. Or travel. Or whatever. There are so many things in life for me to experience than giving away my hard earned money to marketing
Having ridden Shimano Dura Ace, Vision, Fulcrum, DT Swiss, Bontrager, Mavic and FFWD for me there's one very easy choice: FFWD with DT hubs just doesn't go wrong. Shimano is great but when you're a bit late with servicing you will damage the cups and I've encountered too many no-name freehubs on Bontrager. The other wheels aren't bad but the hubs do require more maintenance than the DT-swiss ones I'm using, those just keep going. I have multiple sets of FFWD wheels and I rarely have a problem with them. Once a spoke broke and the LBS had it fixed in 10 minutes because, indeed, it's all standard stuff shops have in stock.
Pretty entertained by the comments. We weekend cyclists don't need something so extravagant, but I won't bat an eye if I have disposable income to spend. As for those who question the reason why someone would need such a wheel, you're better off riding a penny farthing :)
Any amateur cyclist that thinks they are getting any meaningful increase in performance from these nosebleed priced dentists wheels is a delusional clown and a gullible easily marketed to fool. And yes, there is a healthy dose of such clowns out there. Reality! LOL
I've built a wheelset using pro-lock+pro-head nipples on a rim without drillings. I had to use a fishing line with a knot attached to a magnetic nipple, and use that as a guide to thread both the nipple and the nipple washer internally. Yeah, never doing that again.
I bought some FFWD Ryot 240’s (I am a light rider) on your recommendation and they are awesome, especially when spun up to 40km and maintained (downhill/tailwind), which is hardly ever 😂. Also got the same set up on DT Swiss 421DB rims. Equally as fun and a joy to ride, hand built in the UK and about £600 cheaper. What’s best? I feel the 421 are more compliant but the FFWD are faster (in my head at least). Great feature BTW, really good to see what’s inside a rim and point out the differences between each price point which buyers would not see. I’ve learnt loads from this channel and made buying decisions with your advice.
Great video, but nobody needs a wheelset costing 3600 if you're not sponsored. I'm looking for a carbon wheel upgrade and I'm curious what your opinion is about Scope R4's?
Hi, sunday morning here, scrolling through TH-cam, car auctions, bike stuff. Merc sl estimate £2500 to £3500. Princeton wheelset £3500. 😂 what the actual !!!
A very interesting video and particularly the bit about the sweet spot in relation to getting value for your money. I think most will agree that wheels and tyres are where we can really make a difference to our overall ride, but the sweet spot obviously applies here too and £3.600 wheels are definitely to the far right of the sweet spot in my book.
I've just bought a set of ffwd Ryot44 wheels on your recommendation and I couldn't be happier with them. I agree that luxury purchases are emotional and exist in every product category. My opinion is that out and out performance on a bicycle is largely due to the ability of the rider so I prefer to look at efficiency. My idea of efficiency is how I can get the performance I'm capable of while putting less power into the system so that as I improve, I can actually see the benefit in my performance numbers rather than improving my ability slowly, but losing the gains to my equipment. That said, 3600 quid for the marginal gains I would get isn't worth it for me personally. There are so many other improvements to my bike I could make for the 2000 extra over the Ryot44 wheels that could meaningfully improve things like the comfort on my bike. That alone means the ability to put more miles in and improve my own ability by perhaps more than the efficiency gained by using luxury wheels. Repairability is my last point (long post alert!) if I can get what I require to fix what's broken immediately and locally, then that's more time on my bike anyway. More training = improvement to the most important part of the ecosystem..... Me!
yes for the 30c's.....have been on wtb exposures on the road for 18 months and far less issues than other high end tyres. Also still happy on the £1500 Lun Hyper disc wheelset after 3 years, no issues, bar some bearing wear
Mr china cycling has an upcoming video with a complete road bike with dura ace di2 for about the same price. It's crazy that wheels can be this expensive. But there always is a market for expensive stuff. I'm happy with my Noname china wheels for the few km I ride a year.
Would love to watch a review of these wheels with the Tactic Hubs! I heard some people had issues with them but it's hard to find a decent review on yt
Great video. Few go this deep and remain unbiased -- love your videos because of that. This is definitely an opinion, but I hate how Zipp and ENVE are pushing us into this Hookless rim direction. I had the Foundation 65s for my Madone, I was in the sweep spot of $1200 - $1700 but I found them to be incredibly slow to spin up, heavy, and limiting because I couldn't fit a 25c tire, and neither could the bike shop. Hookless also meant they dictated which pressure I could run, and which tires I could buy. I don't know about spending $3000 on a set of wheels like the Princeton's but for $2000 I bought the Campagnolo Bora WTO Ultra 60s, the older ones with a 19mm internal width, and they're fantastic. First off, they're perfect because I wanna stick with 25c tires and zag while everyone is jumping up to 28c and wider. They're significantly lighter than the Foundations, get up to speed quick, they hold the speed really well. They're stiff, they haven't given me issues catching the wind and making me feel unstable the way the Foundations did, granted they are slightly shallower, and they're hooked, so going tubeless is optional, the way it should be. I know prices vary between markets, but look at everything available, every price point, every brand, and ask yourself what you want out of your wheels.
@@Mapdec Their new WTO Ultra's pushed the internal width to 23mm, and recommend 28c as the aero match. Not even sure you can fit a 25c tire on that width, but yeah, I went with the older but safer bet, and these will hopefully be my wheels...for the rest of my life, lol 🤞
I have a set of EliteWheels SLT's (£320 at the time) and have no major issue with them after 2 years. I'm not in a position to spend over £1000 on a pair of Zipp "wheels for life", and they would not be for life as my bike is rim brake. Spending more money for wheels where the rims wear out is nonsensical. However I know the bearing sizes so if any do wear out I can get some Enduro bearing replacements. As a shoestring budget performance option, as long as the brand is well established (EliteWheels have made OEM special gear for other brands for well over a decade), the cheaper Chinese direct to consumer option shouldn't be dismissed. It would be nice to have more expensive wheels that will last, but I am hoping that by the time the wheels wear out I will be in a position for a new bike.
Nice review! You mentioned the Corimas 47s in side winds feeling like a 55 in how they can catch crosswinds. Having done a couple of hundred miles on the Corimas 47s fitted with a Continental AERO 111 Tire 29mm from Swisside, on the front, my feeling is that this wheel combination feels fine in 'normal' crosswinds. We have had some really strong windy days and yes it can twitch in those, but interestingly, the faster you go, the more stable it seems to feel! I think a the 26mm version would be best for full aero though.
I have two sets of Farsports Revo rims on DT Swiss 240 hubs with Sapim CX-Ray spokes and brass nipples. Farsport's custom shop Wheelsfar built them to spec, you can select from a bewildering number of options from them. They were about $1,350 shipped. Both have at least 7K miles on them without issue. They're very light, they look cool, they have solid rim beds so no tubeless tape is needed (I run both tubeless) and they are hooked. The wheels are very well built and haven't gone out of true at all. They are 50mm deep and do not blow me around in cross winds. As far as I can tell, there is zero reason to spend more than that on a pair of wheels.
Cool, this kind of proves the benchmark. you save £300 and sacrifice the convenience of a dealer network. If that's not important to you, you're quids in.
Your thinking about convenience of dealer network only applies to specific countries even in the EU. I.e. in Hungary (where I happen to live) something like FFWD falls in the same basket as any brand Chinese wheel. As in there is zero dealer network.
I think if you are trying to go fast for cheap, the sweetspot is $500-$1000. You can get good wheels from china or used Enve Foundation wheels, you will be within 5W of the best of an equal depth wheel. If you don’t want to buy used and like warranties, $1000-$2000 gets you great options from every brand. Beyond that it becomes obvious you don’t care about money and want the best
I would like to see your review and comparison of enve ses 4.5 rims maybe build with ck hubs and sapim spokes - which also are around 3-3,5keur and see how they compare to 1500eur wheelset from premium brand made in China.
@@MapdecI use nextie premium but don’t order them directly - I do it with local shop so still have 3 years of warranty. I use them since 4 years now (road rims) on gravel and so far so good no complains 😊 they are however around this price 1300-1500€
Yeah, only problem with that claim is that there is virtually zero performance difference between carbon fiber aero wheels of 10 years ago versus those of today. Most of the so called "recent advancements" are little more than ways for the industry to cut their costs, increase their ROI and sell stuff like "hookless" rims as some amazing advancement or make BS claims that a wavy rim somehow dramatically improves aero performance when real world empirical data tends to suggest such claims are BS!
I paid $800 USD for my ican wheels and that gets me around at about 45kph on the flat. For 4800 USD these prinstons would have to go 270kph on the flat to provide equivalent speed per dollar value.
Or you can just set up gym for that 4800 usd and you will go faster and also be stronger later on. All that Princeton will do is muscle wastage as you age 😂
hahaha, good one and true indeed. Amazes me how gullible any amateur cyclist would have to be to pay $4-5K or even anything near $2K for bicycle wheels. New fools born every minute. 🙂
@@Robert-vl3ur you could argue that if you have the disposable income to spend big on your hobby just for fun, you are probably smart in subjects that matter more than bicycles.
I just picked up a set of Ryot 55s and everything your mentioned is CORRET! The Fast Forward wheel bag is the newest I ever seen! I picked mine up on sale with FFWD in-house hub. Knowing what I know now I should have upgraded to the DT Swiss, ☹ but bang for buck Ryot 55s are a excellent wheel choice. #RobbArmstrong
I’m actually quite tempted to give the cheap Ali Express wheels a go, out of interest more than anything. They do an 82mm version that I might pick up as an occasional use wheelset for road bike time trials. My expectation is that they will ride and perform reasonably, but may not last long term. But when you are paying so little money less longevity seems a fair return. It’s not a wheelset I would buy expecting to do thousands of miles a year for years on.
Youd be surprised chinese quality have came a long way. Sometimes id say it's even superior than western brands. The only ever draw back is crash replacements.
@@bingbing3464 that’s a very blanket statement though, there is a lot of production there, ranging from excellent to terrible. I do agree the general standard of Chinese brands has risen a lot in recent years, but you still don’t know what you are going to get till you try it
It seems like much of the cost could be in the quality of the carbon build? I think that is understandable, if true- if I were looking to splurge on lifetime/forever wheels, that could be a good, at least reassuring feature. Your scope footage shows that the rims have a good layup process, which is worth something.
FarSports Gravel wheels, 24mm internal, 30mm external, DT240 hub, $1k. I love mine, absolutely ZERO problems. Less than 1300g with steel sapim cx-ray spokes. I can't find a better wheelset.
I think the Princeton’s as you say are the item you buy if money doesn’t really matter. But the good value were your getting 98% of the benefit is about 1k-1.5k - the ffwd wheels with dt240 are as good as anyone who doesn’t get their bike bought for them needs. I’d like to try the scribe core sl wheels cx-ray spokes and 50mm deep and pretty light and 1k
I recommend you try a set of Enve 4.5 with Inner-drive hubs. Since the fastest rider in the world rides them I think they are worth trying them. Good review. Cheers
thanks. We do have an account with Enve. Very hard to recommend to people, but for those willing to deal with fitting tyres, pressures etc they are an excellent wheel.
@@Mapdec That’s awesome. The reason I am recommending them to you is because they just upgraded their hub. (made it a little more light, a bit stronger and finally spokes don’t cross, which can be a good think and bad thing this time I think it’s great.) I think you would appreciate what they done to the new hub. Still new but I think for the first time it rivals dtswiss 240. I know it’s inspired by mavic and dtswiss but they have done something interesting to it. In my opinion it’s as simple as 350dts and as light as 240dts. And most importantly as all hubs should be: strong, simple and practical. The Princeton’s you riding I had the same experience as you, the deeper version I build them with the first sl8 sold in the US for a my best friend and I wasn’t impressed( they had tactical hubs). But here in US they are by far the most desirable wheels by far. Personally my favorite wheels are Enve 4.5, Roval Alpinist disc, not rapids. I have tried Elite wheels the 50’ and Drive 50 and I must say Elite 50 felt better than drive 50 but speaking to one of their engineers at Sea otter he said my weight might have an impact on how I fell riding them, he is not wrong.😑 I am 98kg. 🤦♂️ Wheels made in china are coming, and that is a good thing I just hope they find a way to make reasonable quality wheels under 1k.
I thought about Chinese wheels but instead just got new Swiss Side Hadron2 All-road (DT240 hubs) for 1200€. They are the same as DT Swiss ERC 1400 45mm, built in the same factory from the same parts. Spending over triple that feels a bit insane.
I've got a 2022 Ribble Endurance AL, an absolutely fantastic bike, it has a set of very heavy, Aluminium, 32 spoke, Level wheels. I've put 12,000 miles into those wheels. I'm a big guy, for a hobby rider I ride a lot of miles and do a lot climbing, in and around the Peak District. The wheels still run perfectly round and the bearings still run smoothly. I don't ride that bike through winter but for a "budget" wheel set they're bomb proof and easily better than a set of £1000 Flexi carbon hoops that would need a new free hub and bearings every 6000 miles (if you're lucky) I don't get why everyone is so hooked on carbon fibre.
@@MapdecI'm really sorry but I thought you guys were professionals? That statement is incredibly ignorant (in the manner of lack of knowledge!) and suggests whoever wrote it is someone who doesn't know what they're talking about. May I suggest you go and speak to one of the guys in the workshop and talk to them about Carbon fibre, carbon fiber lay ups, flex and compliance. Then you might want to have a think about that statement.
I have one set of FFWD F4 tubulars. Nothing special, works ok, but they delaminate if your glue is to strong. Then I have one pair of Winspace Hyper X, they are much faster than my FFWD wheels and more stable in crosswinds.
My wake 6560 evos are the best wheels I have ever ridden and feel like their only 50 deep and weight 1383 grams for the matte black finish and tactic hubs
Nice video, as always, full of exciting details. On a different note, what would be your ultimate choice between Hope Pro 4 or 5 and DT 340 regarding durability and maintenance for bike-packing/ gravel rides? Thank you!
Both are easy to maintain. The Hope are not as well sealed and suffer from depending on slithers of steal springs. The advantage of the hope is points of engagement.
Just a hyped up marketing company. I tend to steer clear of. If you are into hookless rims and poor hubs the Zipp is right there, but with better after sales and cheaper.
Hi. I bought a demo Pinarello F bike here in the states. My first disc brake road bike. The bike had the same Princeton wheels but with Tune hubs. Any comments about these hubs or any caveats? They sound great but that is nothing if they aren’t reliable. They are a little skittish in the crosswinds but great in a bad headwind.
I built wheelsets with Sapim CX Rays, Pillar Wing 20s and CN 494 spokes. Both of the latter are basically copies of CX-Rays. Granted, they're not being ridden by 6W/kg pro cyclists but they've been holding up fine for years and years. And IMO you can replace one with the other, no problems. But I'd DEFINITELY stay away from cheap chinese aluminium nipples. If you do have to use alloy nipples and still ride in the rain and/or winter, use SAPIM. Their surface finish is just superior to anybody else and those nipples will not seize.
The sweet spot is Fatsports rim, dt240, cx rays. End of story! Direct from them, 900 quid. And they probably make some other rims shown in this video 😅
@@Mapdecwhat do you mean forego your consumer rights? They’ve a very solid customer service and warranty record. Where do you think Venn rims are made? Just down the road from Xiamen FS megabase 😂
@@PeakTorque the correct statement would be: Farsports offer the same performance and quality as a FFWD for a lower price, but your warranty depends on trust rather than law, and you further sacrifice any point of accountability in the event of injury resulting from a manufacturing faults. That’s the point of a benchmark. The standard to judge everything else against.
Hey Paul. You seem to give very high marks for the FFWD road wheels (with DT hubs). Does the same go for their gravel wheels that are called Drift, do you have experience of them?
Interesting review- especially of the White Ind hubs. Here in America, there are quite a few White Ind fan boys, but it does seem they are dwindling. Its not to say they don't make good stuff, but there are so many others making as good or better stuff. As a Chris King fan boy, I agree 100% with your assessment to go CK if you are wanting a 100% American made wheel. But don't just do the hub on these wheels, get the CK ARD44s.
I have both hubs, and I’ve been happy with my White Industry hubs. They engage quickly and roll well, and have held up well, even with use on my gravel bike. They’re on one of my better rolling gravel wheelsets. They’re more affordable than Chris King hubs, and you get comparable machining quality and custom options. The other(main) big plus for me, they have the option to run Campy 10 speed cassettes. They do require more maintenance than Chris King hubs, but that can be said of any non-Chris King hub. The o-ring weather seal has worked well for me, but it needs regular inspection. My lbs wheel builder has a preference for DTSwiss hubs, and I can understand why. But the wheelset he built for me with White Ind. hubs just rides better than the DTSwiss wheelsets he has built for me.🤷🏻♂️
What do you think about dt Swiss wheels if you are getting dt Swiss hubs? I feel it makes sense to have the wheel set match to the hub choice if the opportunity is there
Haha the photo of the Enve wheel that exploded was mine. Enve’s pathetic idea is that the relief is on the valve and not on the rim… but that doesn’t always work.
@@Mapdec I couldn't hear from one ear for 15 minutes. Took something like 6 weeks to get a replacement, wasn't quick. That detail aside, I think my WR50 from Lightbicycle roll better than my SES 4.5, mostly because of the DT180 hubs. Those Enve's are a purchase I really regret.
I was very intrigued by your thoughts on the White Industries hubs. They’ve always presented themselves as a premium option on par with Chris King. I never really understood the people that swear by them. They’re not great on paper (or in the looks department), and apparently they’ve not wowed you in the flesh either. I’m your stereotypical patriotic American, but “Made in America” still only goes so far especially with CK as an option. Appreciate these videos as always!
White Industries hubs are more affordable than Chris King, and have comparable machining quality and custom options. They also continue to provide the option to use Campagnolo cassettes. My lbs prefers DTSwiss hubs, but I’ve had fewer issues with my White Industries hubs, and the maintenance intervals seem to be the same. I would love to have a wheelset built with Chris King hubs for my Campy 10 speed, but alas, it hasn’t been an option for what seems forever.
Any chance of doing an Alu wheelset review please? Interested in the Hunt race aero, 1496gms at £399 in sale. Thoughts? Rim brake as own a giant tcr rim bike.
I have alloy nipples on my Giant CRX carbon rim wheelset. Under average use, how long does it take for the galvanic corrosion you showed to happen and is there any lubricant or other protection I can apply to the nipples to keep it from happening? Thanks as always for all your highly informative videos.
If you ride on salted roads aluminium nipples can start to corrode really quickly. I put a drop of light oil on each nipple each wash and it seems to hold it off.
@@Mapdec I was just comparing them to Winspace Hyper as I am in the market for a set of 50 ish wheels for my Time ADH. Forget the Princetons- I am not spending 4000 euros for a pair of hoops but these are 200 grams heavier and 400 euros more than the Hypers. And Winspace are bloody good so I was wondering….
@@tonyg3091 you buy the highest quality frame imaginable, made in Europe, full of exotic materials and a little overweight , but fit overly stiff Chinese wheels. I’m so confused.
@@Mapdec I am 90 kilos, no wheelset is overly stiff 😂😂😂 Honestly, I m considering them for the looks only and because I am super happy with the Hypers I have ridden so far. But I am open to suggestions so go ahead. BTW I am presently riding the ADH with a first gen Hypers and the frame is so good that you don’t feel how stiff the wheels are. The bloody thing goes like an express train on the flats.
I bought a set of FFWD Ryot 44's with the standard hubs. You say to ignore those. But given the high quality of the FFWD wheels..why wouldn't these be any good? Yes, I know DT Swiss makes the best in the business but why would FFWD use the standard hubs then?
If i bought a wheelset costing that much, I would want to get 10 years from it. Looking back 8 years plus at the top end wheelsets, the performance are probably only as good as modern wheel sets costing £800 to £1200.
Besides my bike, I'm into audio gear. The comments hear are very similar when it comes to prices and bang for your buck. Also with prices like these wheels, I'd bet that like audio gear, when you finally have the $$ for such products, it's too late to get some of the benefits. With bikes it would be age slowing you down some and audio your hearing starting to get worse. I'd bet there's some placebo effect with both going on too.
@@Mapdec thanks. Which grease for the ratchet surfaces? I use Mobil HP or XHP 22 or 222 for most things. Sorry can’t remember exact number and am not in the garage at the moment.
there are fools in every amateur sport that believe they can buy performance with their credit card. The owner of these nosebleed priced Princeton wheels is a shining laughable example of that. LOL
Peter from carbon speed Xiamen will sell you 34mm wide rims, 58mm deep, with dt swiss clone hubs, with pillar wing 20 spokes (insiders have tested them to be slightly better than CX ray, and about 20 bucks cheaper per set), for 500 USD. I've bought 5 sets and put over 8k km on them in all imaginable conditions, and I'm heavy, and they've gone over 80kmh. Ah, and they're full T800 and therefore light. Run 30mm like champs, and 32C measures 33.5mm. plush AF. That's my benchmark for value :)
That's because those wheels are actual value. These Princeton wheels, just like most ENVE's and the Zipps are wildly overpriced dentists trinkets. Selling carbon bicycle wheels for thousands of dollars and pretending there is some magical type of NASA level space tech in them. New suckers are born every minute. 🙂
@@Robert-vl3ur dentist trinket. Perfectly put. Miami value would be another one, but I do love dentist trinket.
Does your price also include shipping costs?
I've got a set of 50mm carbon wheels I bought on Taobao (Chinese domestic version of AliExpress) that I paid 3000RMB for (~300 pounds), and they've got kind of no-name brand rims but Sapim spokes and DT Swiss 350 hubs. Over just over 8000km of riding in the last 16 months, they've been absolutely perfect - no issues whatsoever. Especially given the price, they've been downright excellent. I just couldn't imagine paying 10x that amount for a set of wheels, or even 5 times that amount - given how good my experience with my wheels has been, I just don't see the point of spending an enormous amount on a set of wheels.
I’m in China and use Tabao, what did you get?
I have been running a set of Light Bicycle wheels built on Chris King hubs and c-xray spokes. I run tpu tubes and was therefore looking for hooked rims. The Light Bicycle wheels have performed flawlessly since August of 2023. I am really satisfied with the wheels.
At this point you are paying either because you 1) are obsessed with fancy bike parts 2) want to show it off at your coffee ride 3) money is not an issue 4) are above 6w/kg and improving yourself as a cyclist is not an option.
I konw a lot of people for whom 1,2 and 3 wouldn't be the slightest problem. 4 on the other hand 😂
on 4) you dont have to buy theese, they will be delivered to you including your own mechanic and a very beautiful contract
@@CG-99 at least with BMW you can feel the difference when you step on the throttle. The same thing probably cannot be said about these high end bike parts
@@CG-99 you make it seem like iPhone is the luxury, when they have worse specs and tech than android.
@@CG-99 Nah, it is not about priorities, it is about good old fashioned ego, plain and simple. If you are an amateur cyclist that is not riding at a seriously high level putting these wheels on your bike is ALL about show. They are absolutely NOT going to make any material difference in your riding whatsoever. It is no different from a person, who is a legitimate 25-30 handicap in golf that goes out and buys a $500 Scotty Cameron putter and a $5,000 set of golf clubs. Those clubs are absolutely NOT going to "magically" make any meaningful difference in your game. You can pretend they will, and if that satisfies your ego there is nothing unlawful with that, but actually believing they are going to somehow by magic transform your mediocre game into something else is simply a bunch of marketing drivel and nonsense! 🙂
For around £1700 you could get a amazing set of hoops from your local bike shop made to your own specification. This is alot of the time overlooked. We need to go into store sit down and do this more often.
Yes, although it is difficult for local shops to get good carbon rims these days, hence those VENN and Light bicycle rims you see in the vid.
Looking forward to the light bicycle video. I've pondered buying from them for years.
@@MapdecI got Venns built onto Bitex hubs. Perfectly adequate for my limited needs.
Ive been using white industries T11 hubs for over 10 years now and have performed well, 100kg rider too. The wide bearing can be easily replaced with 2 smaller width bearings too and thats in the instructions, im presuming these hubs are the same design. Another great video 👍
The whole industry is insane, nobody needs a £3600 wheelset. If you're at the level where it makes sense to entertain the purported gains over a wheels that are quarter of the price you should be already professionally sponsored and riding what your sponsor wants you to instead. Who is this product for? Rich people with too much money to burn?
If they won't sell, they won't exist
Well… yes. It’s obviously a non essential luxury.
And yet they seem to have cheaped out on the bearings..
"Trickle down" economy
If they want performance, they need to lose that fat gat, go to the gym and they will go faster. Its that simple. But most punters are delusional. Just ask any sports scientist testing these people at the lab. You don’t even need testing to go faster 😂
In Belgium you can get custom built 45mm carbon rim wheels with DT Swiss 240 hubs, Sapim CX ray spokes, and brass nipples weighing around 1350 grams for under €1200
The Unior spoke tension gage comes with a calibration pin. Best would be to calibrate and compare against a spoke tension load cell, in which a known spoke is loaded to a known tension, but there doesn't seem to any off-the-shelf "cyclin" jigs for that.
Someone made a jig once, and you can make one easily enough. Tensionmenters are cheap and recyclable though. We have 3 in the shop and replace as one goes off.
Pricing up just the parts for a set of carbon wheels of similar spec is going to be expensive, DT Swiss 240 hubs are insanely expensive for a start. I feel having a chat with your trusted wheel builder about whats really suited to your riding is a way better option than buying off the shelf. You may get most of the performance without the extreme expense and the cachet of having something bespoke (touches nose knowingly). Your wheel builder knows where the sweet spot is and once you get a well made hand built set of wheels there's no going back. 👌👍
Finally a really good analysis of a wheel!!! really well done! Vittoria Corsa Pro 26 30ml latex sealant....one of the best. ;) Personally as a French rider I would have them built up with DT's and switch out the bearing to Sinc Bearings.... ( Or run 180's )
White has steel axles, I’ve got almost 50k miles on mine, they are reliable. Titanium driver has minimal wear. Bearings are easy to find, stack two if you can’t find the dual row one. No special tools required. Zero rust on the pawls. And if you need parts, call them. Nicely made and nicely finished.
@26:44 Besides cycling, you've just named all my other web searches 😊
Learnt a fair bit again. Great in depth vid.
Cool, thanks!
On my bikes, I have Corima tubulars (Shimano road bike), Zipp 404 tubulars (Campy CX bike), Roval CLX50 clinchers (Shimano road bike for long rides where I'm scared to flat on tubulars), and a set of alloy Fulcrum rims (Campy) for muddy, winter riding that might prematurely wear out any of the carbon sets. ALL of the carbon wheel sets were acquired as lightly used second hand purchases at a cost of around 3000 pounds for all three sets together. That's more value for my garage than a single set of Princeton Carbonworks.
Love your channel and your honesty man. Cheers from Michigan, USA.
I appreciate that!
Great video! Don't know if you take video ideas but I'd love to know your cleaning process (building on the short you put out), especially for gravel & MTB in the UK with the conditions we have. So much online discussion & content is dry American condition focused, whilst in the UK we have maybe a month or so that we ride in truly dry trail conditions and could think about not having to clean after every ride! Cheers for the great content 👍
It’s not so much the cleaning, but the drying and storage that matters in the UK.
My mindset over the years: my cheap bikes work just fine->I really want those fancy parts->my cheap bikes works just fine. I would buy more bikes than expensive bikes. Maybe ones with engine. Or travel. Or whatever. There are so many things in life for me to experience than giving away my hard earned money to marketing
Having ridden Shimano Dura Ace, Vision, Fulcrum, DT Swiss, Bontrager, Mavic and FFWD for me there's one very easy choice: FFWD with DT hubs just doesn't go wrong. Shimano is great but when you're a bit late with servicing you will damage the cups and I've encountered too many no-name freehubs on Bontrager. The other wheels aren't bad but the hubs do require more maintenance than the DT-swiss ones I'm using, those just keep going. I have multiple sets of FFWD wheels and I rarely have a problem with them. Once a spoke broke and the LBS had it fixed in 10 minutes because, indeed, it's all standard stuff shops have in stock.
Pretty entertained by the comments. We weekend cyclists don't need something so extravagant, but I won't bat an eye if I have disposable income to spend. As for those who question the reason why someone would need such a wheel, you're better off riding a penny farthing :)
Any amateur cyclist that thinks they are getting any meaningful increase in performance from these nosebleed priced dentists wheels is a delusional clown and a gullible easily marketed to fool. And yes, there is a healthy dose of such clowns out there. Reality! LOL
I've built a wheelset using pro-lock+pro-head nipples on a rim without drillings. I had to use a fishing line with a knot attached to a magnetic nipple, and use that as a guide to thread both the nipple and the nipple washer internally.
Yeah, never doing that again.
You used washers 🫡
Wow, that's a great video; It must have taken ages to make. Thank you for all the information.
I bought some FFWD Ryot 240’s (I am a light rider) on your recommendation and they are awesome, especially when spun up to 40km and maintained (downhill/tailwind), which is hardly ever 😂. Also got the same set up on DT Swiss 421DB rims. Equally as fun and a joy to ride, hand built in the UK and about £600 cheaper. What’s best? I feel the 421 are more compliant but the FFWD are faster (in my head at least). Great feature BTW, really good to see what’s inside a rim and point out the differences between each price point which buyers would not see. I’ve learnt loads from this channel and made buying decisions with your advice.
Glad you like them!
Great video, but nobody needs a wheelset costing 3600 if you're not sponsored. I'm looking for a carbon wheel upgrade and I'm curious what your opinion is about Scope R4's?
Hi, sunday morning here, scrolling through TH-cam, car auctions, bike stuff. Merc sl estimate £2500 to £3500. Princeton wheelset £3500. 😂 what the actual !!!
I bet the merc is faster.
@@Mapdec 😃 but probably needs 5k spent to get it running well 🫣
My set of 6560 evos were 4,100 out the door and are the best wheels I have ever ridden
A very interesting video and particularly the bit about the sweet spot in relation to getting value for your money. I think most will agree that wheels and tyres are where we can really make a difference to our overall ride, but the sweet spot obviously applies here too and £3.600 wheels are definitely to the far right of the sweet spot in my book.
I've just bought a set of ffwd Ryot44 wheels on your recommendation and I couldn't be happier with them. I agree that luxury purchases are emotional and exist in every product category. My opinion is that out and out performance on a bicycle is largely due to the ability of the rider so I prefer to look at efficiency. My idea of efficiency is how I can get the performance I'm capable of while putting less power into the system so that as I improve, I can actually see the benefit in my performance numbers rather than improving my ability slowly, but losing the gains to my equipment. That said, 3600 quid for the marginal gains I would get isn't worth it for me personally. There are so many other improvements to my bike I could make for the 2000 extra over the Ryot44 wheels that could meaningfully improve things like the comfort on my bike. That alone means the ability to put more miles in and improve my own ability by perhaps more than the efficiency gained by using luxury wheels. Repairability is my last point (long post alert!) if I can get what I require to fix what's broken immediately and locally, then that's more time on my bike anyway. More training = improvement to the most important part of the ecosystem..... Me!
Congrats on the new wheels, and good luck with the training . Invest in your own body
yes for the 30c's.....have been on wtb exposures on the road for 18 months and far less issues than other high end tyres. Also still happy on the £1500 Lun Hyper disc wheelset after 3 years, no issues, bar some bearing wear
I’d absolutely love to get my hands on the Princeton TT wheels, rear disc and Tri-spoke but price and UK roads!!
The Fast Forward Ryot 44 costs now €1800 on DT Swiss hubs! The increase is not justified, therefore they can keep them! Welcome good quality Chinese!
Um, have you noticed all the revamps? You are entitled to your own opinion but you should probably want to base them on current facts, not old ones.
I own a pir of FFWD 44/55 wheels with DT 240 hubs. Absolutely love these wheels. They want to go fast!
Mr china cycling has an upcoming video with a complete road bike with dura ace di2 for about the same price.
It's crazy that wheels can be this expensive. But there always is a market for expensive stuff. I'm happy with my Noname china wheels for the few km I ride a year.
Would love to watch a review of these wheels with the Tactic Hubs! I heard some people had issues with them but it's hard to find a decent review on yt
Great video. Few go this deep and remain unbiased -- love your videos because of that.
This is definitely an opinion, but I hate how Zipp and ENVE are pushing us into this Hookless rim direction. I had the Foundation 65s for my Madone, I was in the sweep spot of $1200 - $1700 but I found them to be incredibly slow to spin up, heavy, and limiting because I couldn't fit a 25c tire, and neither could the bike shop. Hookless also meant they dictated which pressure I could run, and which tires I could buy. I don't know about spending $3000 on a set of wheels like the Princeton's but for $2000 I bought the Campagnolo Bora WTO Ultra 60s, the older ones with a 19mm internal width, and they're fantastic. First off, they're perfect because I wanna stick with 25c tires and zag while everyone is jumping up to 28c and wider. They're significantly lighter than the Foundations, get up to speed quick, they hold the speed really well. They're stiff, they haven't given me issues catching the wind and making me feel unstable the way the Foundations did, granted they are slightly shallower, and they're hooked, so going tubeless is optional, the way it should be. I know prices vary between markets, but look at everything available, every price point, every brand, and ask yourself what you want out of your wheels.
Yes, Campg really is the choice for skinny tyres these days.
@@Mapdec Their new WTO Ultra's pushed the internal width to 23mm, and recommend 28c as the aero match. Not even sure you can fit a 25c tire on that width, but yeah, I went with the older but safer bet, and these will hopefully be my wheels...for the rest of my life, lol 🤞
I'm pretty happy with my 50mm EliteWheels Edge from Ali, ± 600 eu with ceramic hubs :)
Editor, please please please stop using this transition between cuts. It's really annoying. Regular cuts are good. Thanks.
feedback received.
@@Mapdec thank you! Love y'all!
I have a set of EliteWheels SLT's (£320 at the time) and have no major issue with them after 2 years. I'm not in a position to spend over £1000 on a pair of Zipp "wheels for life", and they would not be for life as my bike is rim brake. Spending more money for wheels where the rims wear out is nonsensical. However I know the bearing sizes so if any do wear out I can get some Enduro bearing replacements. As a shoestring budget performance option, as long as the brand is well established (EliteWheels have made OEM special gear for other brands for well over a decade), the cheaper Chinese direct to consumer option shouldn't be dismissed. It would be nice to have more expensive wheels that will last, but I am hoping that by the time the wheels wear out I will be in a position for a new bike.
Nice review! You mentioned the Corimas 47s in side winds feeling like a 55 in how they can catch crosswinds. Having done a couple of hundred miles on the Corimas 47s fitted with a Continental AERO 111 Tire 29mm from Swisside, on the front, my feeling is that this wheel combination feels fine in 'normal' crosswinds. We have had some really strong windy days and yes it can twitch in those, but interestingly, the faster you go, the more stable it seems to feel! I think a the 26mm version would be best for full aero though.
That sounds about right. They can twitch a bit more than they should for the depth.
I would love to see a Brisk Wheels review. Also Polymer Workshop...
What about the Fuldurm Sharg and get Campag quality ceramic cup and cones bearings. The proper way to do wheel bearings.
I have two sets of Farsports Revo rims on DT Swiss 240 hubs with Sapim CX-Ray spokes and brass nipples. Farsport's custom shop Wheelsfar built them to spec, you can select from a bewildering number of options from them. They were about $1,350 shipped. Both have at least 7K miles on them without issue. They're very light, they look cool, they have solid rim beds so no tubeless tape is needed (I run both tubeless) and they are hooked. The wheels are very well built and haven't gone out of true at all. They are 50mm deep and do not blow me around in cross winds. As far as I can tell, there is zero reason to spend more than that on a pair of wheels.
Cool, this kind of proves the benchmark. you save £300 and sacrifice the convenience of a dealer network. If that's not important to you, you're quids in.
Your thinking about convenience of dealer network only applies to specific countries even in the EU. I.e. in Hungary (where I happen to live) something like FFWD falls in the same basket as any brand Chinese wheel. As in there is zero dealer network.
Enjoyed the discussion, definitely couldn't justify spending that amount on a pair of wheels.
I use 32mm and love them. Even with tubes only running 45psi.
Awesome video. Thanks for the useful information. 👍
I have Venn rims, think it was your channel that recommended them. Built up by Ryan Builds Wheels.
Would love to have a video about different spokes from Sapim.
It’s info we would mostly drop into something more interesting. We have covered some of it before.
I think if you are trying to go fast for cheap, the sweetspot is $500-$1000. You can get good wheels from china or used Enve Foundation wheels, you will be within 5W of the best of an equal depth wheel. If you don’t want to buy used and like warranties, $1000-$2000 gets you great options from every brand. Beyond that it becomes obvious you don’t care about money and want the best
I would like to see your review and comparison of enve ses 4.5 rims maybe build with ck hubs and sapim spokes - which also are around 3-3,5keur and see how they compare to 1500eur wheelset from premium brand made in China.
The issue with Premium Chinese is that you still sacrifice your consumer rights, so why would you do that?
@@MapdecI use nextie premium but don’t order them directly - I do it with local shop so still have 3 years of warranty. I use them since 4 years now (road rims) on gravel and so far so good no complains 😊 they are however around this price 1300-1500€
Can you do the same for aluminum-rimmed wheels?
Extreme priced wheels are fantastic for the industry! Encourages development and we all benefit from the trickledown effect 👍
Yeah, only problem with that claim is that there is virtually zero performance difference between carbon fiber aero wheels of 10 years ago versus those of today. Most of the so called "recent advancements" are little more than ways for the industry to cut their costs, increase their ROI and sell stuff like "hookless" rims as some amazing advancement or make BS claims that a wavy rim somehow dramatically improves aero performance when real world empirical data tends to suggest such claims are BS!
Have you reviewed the Enve Innerdrive hub gen 2 that is out. Please review those wheelset
At 10:28, where you're looking at the internals of the rim, my 2017 Mavic Cosmic SL snapped and it was an absolute mess inside.
Ouch. It’s a common thing. Such a bad design.
I paid $800 USD for my ican wheels and that gets me around at about 45kph on the flat. For 4800 USD these prinstons would have to go 270kph on the flat to provide equivalent speed per dollar value.
You could put that marginal gain into a formula
Or you can just set up gym for that 4800 usd and you will go faster and also be stronger later on. All that Princeton will do is muscle wastage as you age 😂
hahaha, good one and true indeed. Amazes me how gullible any amateur cyclist would have to be to pay $4-5K or even anything near $2K for bicycle wheels. New fools born every minute. 🙂
@@Robert-vl3ur you could argue that if you have the disposable income to spend big on your hobby just for fun, you are probably smart in subjects that matter more than bicycles.
Would love to see a review of the new Light Bicycle Falcon Pro Turbo wheels. Any chance this is on the cards?
Yep
Thanks for the video, had not come across the FFW ones you recommend. have you any view on Bora Ultra WTO45?
Like the Boras.
“My 47mm deep rim responded like a 55 mm deep rim…”
Jebus, I hope nobody goes around the hotel bedrooms with a box of dried peas…
ah man, this joke is totally lost on me.
@@Mapdec I think he maybe on about the story of the The Princess and the Pea. I could see you sporting a lovely carbon fibre tiara to be honest.
I just picked up a set of Ryot 55s and everything your mentioned is CORRET! The Fast Forward wheel bag is the newest I ever seen! I picked mine up on sale with FFWD in-house hub. Knowing what I know now I should have upgraded to the DT Swiss, ☹ but bang for buck Ryot 55s are a excellent wheel choice.
#RobbArmstrong
I’m actually quite tempted to give the cheap Ali Express wheels a go, out of interest more than anything. They do an 82mm version that I might pick up as an occasional use wheelset for road bike time trials.
My expectation is that they will ride and perform reasonably, but may not last long term. But when you are paying so little money less longevity seems a fair return. It’s not a wheelset I would buy expecting to do thousands of miles a year for years on.
Youd be surprised chinese quality have came a long way. Sometimes id say it's even superior than western brands. The only ever draw back is crash replacements.
@@bingbing3464 that’s a very blanket statement though, there is a lot of production there, ranging from excellent to terrible. I do agree the general standard of Chinese brands has risen a lot in recent years, but you still don’t know what you are going to get till you try it
@@huntos83 obviously im talking about established chinese brands with years of manufacturing history like yuanan, lightcarbon, far, winspace etc
It seems like much of the cost could be in the quality of the carbon build? I think that is understandable, if true- if I were looking to splurge on lifetime/forever wheels, that could be a good, at least reassuring feature. Your scope footage shows that the rims have a good layup process, which is worth something.
4:12 How or rather what do you lubricate spokes/spoke nipples with?
I just use chain oil. Some will swear by boiled linseed oil.
@@Mapdec Is this something you do with all non carbon spoke wheels? I have never heard or read about this before, so I´m a bit baffled tbh.
FarSports Gravel wheels, 24mm internal, 30mm external, DT240 hub, $1k. I love mine, absolutely ZERO problems. Less than 1300g with steel sapim cx-ray spokes. I can't find a better wheelset.
Ever wonder what they removed to make them that light?
@@Mapdec I weigh 200lbs and haven't had an issue at all, so I think I'm a pretty good tester!
I think the Princeton’s as you say are the item you buy if money doesn’t really matter. But the good value were your getting 98% of the benefit is about 1k-1.5k - the ffwd wheels with dt240 are as good as anyone who doesn’t get their bike bought for them needs. I’d like to try the scribe core sl wheels cx-ray spokes and 50mm deep and pretty light and 1k
Is it me or is the sound slightly offset from the video?
Just in a small segment near the start. It was too hard to fix.
They charge 5500dollars for the 4550 here in S.Korea😂
I recommend you try a set of Enve 4.5 with Inner-drive hubs.
Since the fastest rider in the world rides them I think they are worth trying them. Good review. Cheers
thanks. We do have an account with Enve. Very hard to recommend to people, but for those willing to deal with fitting tyres, pressures etc they are an excellent wheel.
@@Mapdec That’s awesome.
The reason I am recommending them to you is because they just upgraded their hub. (made it a little more light, a bit stronger and finally spokes don’t cross, which can be a good think and bad thing this time I think it’s great.) I think you would appreciate what they done to the new hub. Still new but I think for the first time it rivals dtswiss 240. I know it’s inspired by mavic and dtswiss but they have done something interesting to it. In my opinion it’s as simple as 350dts and as light as 240dts. And most importantly as all hubs should be: strong, simple and practical.
The Princeton’s you riding I had the same experience as you, the deeper version I build them with the first sl8 sold in the US for a my best friend and I wasn’t impressed( they had tactical hubs). But here in US they are by far the most desirable wheels by far. Personally my favorite wheels are Enve 4.5, Roval Alpinist disc, not rapids. I have tried Elite wheels the 50’ and Drive 50 and I must say Elite 50 felt better than drive 50 but speaking to one of their engineers at Sea otter he said my weight might have an impact on how I fell riding them, he is not wrong.😑 I am 98kg. 🤦♂️
Wheels made in china are coming, and that is a good thing I just hope they find a way to make reasonable quality wheels under 1k.
I thought about Chinese wheels but instead just got new Swiss Side Hadron2 All-road (DT240 hubs) for 1200€. They are the same as DT Swiss ERC 1400 45mm, built in the same factory from the same parts. Spending over triple that feels a bit insane.
I've got a 2022 Ribble Endurance AL, an absolutely fantastic bike, it has a set of very heavy, Aluminium, 32 spoke, Level wheels. I've put 12,000 miles into those wheels. I'm a big guy, for a hobby rider I ride a lot of miles and do a lot climbing, in and around the Peak District. The wheels still run perfectly round and the bearings still run smoothly. I don't ride that bike through winter but for a "budget" wheel set they're bomb proof and easily better than a set of £1000 Flexi carbon hoops that would need a new free hub and bearings every 6000 miles (if you're lucky) I don't get why everyone is so hooked on carbon fibre.
Carbon Fibre is anything but flexible. It’s more often described as too stiff.
@@MapdecI'm really sorry but I thought you guys were professionals? That statement is incredibly ignorant (in the manner of lack of knowledge!) and suggests whoever wrote it is someone who doesn't know what they're talking about. May I suggest you go and speak to one of the guys in the workshop and talk to them about Carbon fibre, carbon fiber lay ups, flex and compliance. Then you might want to have a think about that statement.
@@iansingleton oh bless. 😘
@@Mapdec and that's a great way to lose subscribers and get a reputation as a channel full of wankers! Good bye!
@@Mapdec and that's a great way of losing subscribers and gaining a reputation as a channel full of elitist wankers! Good bye!
I have one set of FFWD F4 tubulars. Nothing special, works ok, but they delaminate if your glue is to strong. Then I have one pair of Winspace Hyper X, they are much faster than my FFWD wheels and more stable in crosswinds.
About a decade in technology advancement there too.
My wake 6560 evos are the best wheels I have ever ridden and feel like their only 50 deep and weight 1383 grams for the matte black finish and tactic hubs
Yes. I feel this is the set to get from Princeton. I should have a set to test long term soon.
Nice video, as always, full of exciting details.
On a different note, what would be your ultimate choice between Hope Pro 4 or 5 and DT 340 regarding durability and maintenance for bike-packing/ gravel rides?
Thank you!
Both are easy to maintain. The Hope are not as well sealed and suffer from depending on slithers of steal springs. The advantage of the hope is points of engagement.
Hi you don’t mention Enve in the comparison, any reason why? Thank you
Just a hyped up marketing company. I tend to steer clear of. If you are into hookless rims and poor hubs the Zipp is right there, but with better after sales and cheaper.
Hi. I bought a demo Pinarello F bike here in the states. My first disc brake road bike. The bike had the same Princeton wheels but with Tune hubs. Any comments about these hubs or any caveats? They sound great but that is nothing if they aren’t reliable. They are a little skittish in the crosswinds but great in a bad headwind.
Must be insane to spend 3 grand on a wheel set and gain nothing because the engine can’t push the bike to its potential, nice wheels though.
Gullibility to marketing and ego are powerful drugs.
Quick question. For 30mm tyres, do you need a 30mm external rim width for aerodynamics, or is that an over-simplification?
In theory, yes.
I built wheelsets with Sapim CX Rays, Pillar Wing 20s and CN 494 spokes. Both of the latter are basically copies of CX-Rays. Granted, they're not being ridden by 6W/kg pro cyclists but they've been holding up fine for years and years. And IMO you can replace one with the other, no problems. But I'd DEFINITELY stay away from cheap chinese aluminium nipples. If you do have to use alloy nipples and still ride in the rain and/or winter, use SAPIM. Their surface finish is just superior to anybody else and those nipples will not seize.
These wheels should be no more than 1500 dollars.
Easily one of the most silly priced bike components on the market.
The sweet spot is Fatsports rim, dt240, cx rays. End of story! Direct from them, 900 quid. And they probably make some other rims shown in this video 😅
Is £900 enough of a saving to forgo your consumer rights? You can add your affiliate code if you like. 👍
@@Mapdecwhat do you mean forego your consumer rights? They’ve a very solid customer service and warranty record. Where do you think Venn rims are made? Just down the road from Xiamen FS megabase 😂
@@PeakTorque yes. But the contract is between buyer and retailer.
@@PeakTorque the correct statement would be: Farsports offer the same performance and quality as a FFWD for a lower price, but your warranty depends on trust rather than law, and you further sacrifice any point of accountability in the event of injury resulting from a manufacturing faults. That’s the point of a benchmark. The standard to judge everything else against.
Great watch as ever Paul, For some reason the option of a thumbs up or even down wasn't available odd or is it just me?
Thank you.
Just you I think.
Hey Paul. You seem to give very high marks for the FFWD road wheels (with DT hubs). Does the same go for their gravel wheels that are called Drift, do you have experience of them?
I haven’t seen a set in the flesh to comment on yet. Sorry.
Interesting review- especially of the White Ind hubs. Here in America, there are quite a few White Ind fan boys, but it does seem they are dwindling. Its not to say they don't make good stuff, but there are so many others making as good or better stuff.
As a Chris King fan boy, I agree 100% with your assessment to go CK if you are wanting a 100% American made wheel. But don't just do the hub on these wheels, get the CK ARD44s.
I have both hubs, and I’ve been happy with my White Industry hubs. They engage quickly and roll well, and have held up well, even with use on my gravel bike. They’re on one of my better rolling gravel wheelsets. They’re more affordable than Chris King hubs, and you get comparable machining quality and custom options. The other(main) big plus for me, they have the option to run Campy 10 speed cassettes. They do require more maintenance than Chris King hubs, but that can be said of any non-Chris King hub. The o-ring weather seal has worked well for me, but it needs regular inspection. My lbs wheel builder has a preference for DTSwiss hubs, and I can understand why. But the wheelset he built for me with White Ind. hubs just rides better than the DTSwiss wheelsets he has built for me.🤷🏻♂️
What do you think about dt Swiss wheels if you are getting dt Swiss hubs? I feel it makes sense to have the wheel set match to the hub choice if the opportunity is there
They feature internal alu nipples. Apparently more aero, pita to fix.
Haha the photo of the Enve wheel that exploded was mine. Enve’s pathetic idea is that the relief is on the valve and not on the rim… but that doesn’t always work.
glad you are ok, I bet that went off with a bang!
@@Mapdec I couldn't hear from one ear for 15 minutes. Took something like 6 weeks to get a replacement, wasn't quick.
That detail aside, I think my WR50 from Lightbicycle roll better than my SES 4.5, mostly because of the DT180 hubs. Those Enve's are a purchase I really regret.
Normal seals, pawl instead of ratchet for that money.... 😅
£3600 I expect Chris King to be the hub.
Or Tune, etc.
I don't get zipp because of their hubs. They are not reliable. Can you make a video on zipp hubs?
Oh we have! Several in fact.
White industry hubs is there cheapest configuration, tactic racing 01 hubs is there highest which saves like 200g and has ceramic bearings in it
Yes. 👍
I was very intrigued by your thoughts on the White Industries hubs. They’ve always presented themselves as a premium option on par with Chris King. I never really understood the people that swear by them. They’re not great on paper (or in the looks department), and apparently they’ve not wowed you in the flesh either. I’m your stereotypical patriotic American, but “Made in America” still only goes so far especially with CK as an option. Appreciate these videos as always!
Thanks. The WI hubs really do need an update.
White Industries hubs are more affordable than Chris King, and have comparable machining quality and custom options. They also continue to provide the option to use Campagnolo cassettes. My lbs prefers DTSwiss hubs, but I’ve had fewer issues with my White Industries hubs, and the maintenance intervals seem to be the same. I would love to have a wheelset built with Chris King hubs for my Campy 10 speed, but alas, it hasn’t been an option for what seems forever.
@@petesjk Interesting. It’s really a shame that Campy has died off for the most part in the States. I’m sure CK has seen much less of a call for it.
Any chance of doing an Alu wheelset review please? Interested in the Hunt race aero, 1496gms at £399 in sale. Thoughts? Rim brake as own a giant tcr rim bike.
We did the DT Swiss gravel wheel set. Alu. It’s very rare anyone asks for this.
@@Mapdec fair one. Appreciate the reply.. on a BH weekend.
Alu rim brake wheels, yeah nobody rides those any more. Well, except me and most of my friends.
I have alloy nipples on my Giant CRX carbon rim wheelset. Under average use, how long does it take for the galvanic corrosion you showed to happen and is there any lubricant or other protection I can apply to the nipples to keep it from happening?
Thanks as always for all your highly informative videos.
If you ride on salted roads aluminium nipples can start to corrode really quickly. I put a drop of light oil on each nipple each wash and it seems to hold it off.
In a wet country. 2 years is common point of failure. Keep them dry. Use gt85 water displacement to draw out moisture
Hold on…Ryot 55 with DT Swiss weighs 1620 grams and costs 1800 eur…how is that a good offer? What am I missing?
Dependability. Also, thats a 55mm rim. The Princetons here are 45/50. You are considering a dozen or so grams of rim material here.
@@Mapdec I was just comparing them to Winspace Hyper as I am in the market for a set of 50 ish wheels for my Time ADH. Forget the Princetons- I am not spending 4000 euros for a pair of hoops but these are 200 grams heavier and 400 euros more than the Hypers. And Winspace are bloody good so I was wondering….
@@tonyg3091 you buy the highest quality frame imaginable, made in Europe, full of exotic materials and a little overweight , but fit overly stiff Chinese wheels. I’m so confused.
@@Mapdec I am 90 kilos, no wheelset is overly stiff 😂😂😂
Honestly, I m considering them for the looks only and because I am super happy with the Hypers I have ridden so far.
But I am open to suggestions so go ahead.
BTW I am presently riding the ADH with a first gen Hypers and the frame is so good that you don’t feel how stiff the wheels are. The bloody thing goes like an express train on the flats.
@@tonyg3091 "I m considering them for the looks only" Are you a dentist by trade?
£729 for my Shimano WH-R8170 which I considered a good price point for a decent Wheelset. If I won the lottery I’d probably by these on 240s 😆
Seriously over priced are they that fast no wonder the cycle industry is I trouble charging sky high price's
Are there any non handmade (i.e. fully automated) carbon wheels?
Shimano would be the obvious candidate here, and many more.
I bought a set of FFWD Ryot 44's with the standard hubs. You say to ignore those. But given the high quality of the FFWD wheels..why wouldn't these be any good? Yes, I know DT Swiss makes the best in the business but why would FFWD use the standard hubs then?
I love Campy wheels light high quality
If i bought a wheelset costing that much, I would want to get 10 years from it. Looking back 8 years plus at the top end wheelsets, the performance are probably only as good as modern wheel sets costing £800 to £1200.
Besides my bike, I'm into audio gear. The comments hear are very similar when it comes to prices and bang for your buck. Also with prices like these wheels, I'd bet that like audio gear, when you finally have the $$ for such products, it's too late to get some of the benefits. With bikes it would be age slowing you down some and audio your hearing starting to get worse. I'd bet there's some placebo effect with both going on too.
Google "the law of diminishing returns" 👍
I'll stick to my Lun Hyper wheels, 2nd or 3rd gen 👍🏽
More expensive than my whole bike and needs special tools to service? This is a no-brainer
Ryot 44s seem ok except for the noise of the freehub….
just add a little more grease.
@@Mapdec thanks. Which grease for the ratchet surfaces? I use Mobil HP or XHP 22 or 222 for most things. Sorry can’t remember exact number and am not in the garage at the moment.
@@enigma1000 you need to use the DT Swlss Special Grease (actual name). The pink stuff. Anything else just gets too sticky.
@@Mapdec Thanks, I thought it needed a ‘special’ grease. No doubt at a ‘special’ price!
@@enigma1000 I don’t know. It usually come with the replacement ratchet kits in a tube to last a life time.
So, £3600 for a rather average wheelset. What a load of old ball bearings. Total loss of perspective. Typical American.
I blame the dentists that spend more on a fucking wheel than I have ever paid for a car in my life.
there are fools in every amateur sport that believe they can buy performance with their credit card. The owner of these nosebleed priced Princeton wheels is a shining laughable example of that. LOL