Keep in mind the underperformance of many German clubs in large stadiums has brought the Bundesliga average down. When Heidenheim in their 15k stadium is in the top flight instead of Schalke in their 62k stadium it causes a natural drop
Was going to say the same thing. 5 of the top 10 biggest stadiums aren't in the Bundesliga. In addition the Bundesliga has Keil and Union as well which have smaller stadiums
@@GodfatherBoxSet yes, they nearly rebuilt the stadium to nearly double the capacity to 37700, with most of them being standing. Probably the best new stadium being planned right now.
Big six or sky six please. The top six is a league position earned on the pitch but the big/sky six refers more clearly to the media and arguably refereeing favouritism
@@Kanbei11bro literally nobody is using that term, I think everyone knows what you mean when you say “big 6” anyway. Obviously it’s not all about on-pitch success, it’s about revenue and popularity as well.
What ive noticed working at a non league club is more and more youbg people (15-25) have been attending games lower down in non league. I feel the growing age of efl and epl attendances is affecting this as kids cant afford to go to those league sides so they spend 5-10 quid for a ticket at a non league club and its improving the atmosphere loads at lower levels
@MrRafting tbf in the national league it can still be extortionate, Aldershot town whos one of my locals charge 20 quid for an adult ticket which imo is stupud amounts for the level
I agree with you and in the 80s and early 90s most working class people couldn't afford luxuries like match day tickets due to still being in recovery from the thatcher destruction .
Best time I’ve had at football have been at Solihull Moors where the ticket cost £10 and the game finished 7-2 to Moors. Corby Town’s away support were on a stag do and it was great. Fuck the EPL.
The funny thing about the "you're going home in an f-ing ambulance" chant has always been that ambulances don't actually take you home, they take you to a hospital.
@apropercuppa8612 I have been taken home in an ambulance. If you disagree that I have, or disagree that it was an ambulance, that will not change the fact.
That sounds like the most expensive Über ever (speaking as an American). We have people who rather ride scooters while bleeding out than take an ambulance because of the insane costs...what is that like in the UK? Is it cheaper for your medical insurance?
Looking at Bundesliga attendances you have to consider that big Clubs with huge Stadiums Like Schalke and Hamburg are now in the 2nd Division and small Clubs with small Stadiums are now in the Bundesliga
Working class fans have been priced out in favour of tourists who can pay for the "premium" experience and have no real attachment to the clubs. I go to Scottish lowland league games with an average attendance of 1-200 and theres a better atmosphere there for £10
I have been to premier league matches, as well as have season tickets to Vfb Stuttgart. I was shocked at how much more reserved/mellow the premier league is compared to Bundesliga. Bundesliga, Serie A, La Liga, even Ekstraklasa are all more lively and entertaining.
@@juanjoseph- That's because they are massive problems with racism in both those leagues. Small, vocal minority of idiots, so I don't think it's everyone, but you can see it all the way from here (US). Ok, as a life long fan of the sport, I am admittedly just getting interested in Bundesliga. I love LaLiga and Prem, and am also getting into Italian matches...but why do German Clubs have extra initials that aren't part of the name of the club or city? Seriously interested in that. My kids and I were trying to understand what that all means. Example: BVB Dortman, RB Leipzig, or VfB Stuttgart?
@@lostsoldier212 The initials are the short form of the officially registered name. F.e. VfB Stuttgart in full form stands for Verein(Club) für (for) Bewegungsspiele (movement sports) Stuttgart 1893 e.V.(registered club).
Bay fow bay = bvb = ball game club Rb = Rasenballsport = lawn ball games (Red Bull sponsored, changed to get around calling them Red Bull Leipzig) Vfb = Verein für Bewegungsspiele = Association for active games Same as a club being "united" or "athletic club", just German
Best German players in the premier league of all time. (Day 694) Alternativly you could do "Best German players who played outside the Bundesliga" or something like that if you prefer. I will not give up until the video is made or Alfie himself tells me to stop. Everyone else telling me that will be ignored. If you don't believe my number, just go back to the previous videos. I'm at the bottom most of the time, but I'm there.
Who do you see in the list? Most top German players I can think of either never played in the Prem or went on to do bigger and better things elsewhere.
Great video, so much to think about. I'd echo the whole age profile thing. When I first went to watch Liverpool regularly at the turn of the century - yes, I am old - I joined in every chant and jumped around like a mad thing at every opportunity. Nowadays I like to pick my moments, and they're gradually getting further apart. And here's the kicker: I'm a season ticket holder. I applied in 2001 and finally got one on the summer of...wait for it....2023! The waiting list closed years ago so everyone currently on it must be at least in their mid-20's, and even then only if someone put them on it when they were born. More likely there is no one under the age of 30 on the list, and there's no way I'm dropping off it. I'd literally never get one again. So I'm the equivalent of a bed blocker, preventing the next generation of supporter coming through who would join in every chant and jump around like a mad thing at every opportunity. I don't know what the solution is. The first step to one is, as always, to admit there's a problem.
A ticket to watch my local Ligue 1 side costs around 50-75~€ and you get a good spot. I paid 100€ for a good Champions League seat. I remember my brother having to pay 200£ to watch West Ham - Southampton to fulfill his dream of watching a Hammers match live and being floored by that price
That's still a pretty high price when compared to other leagues, I pay around 25€ for a seated ticket in Mönchengladbach and 16€ for a standing ticket.
Our prices for single games are ridiculous, tho €200 is higher than I even knew we charged. We have the cheapest season tickets in the league, mine cost me £630 or around that n in like the 5th row behind the goal, but single match tickets start at like £60 which is ludicrous to me Also, I’m so sorry your brothers dream was to watch us play, if it’s the Southampton match I’m thinking of on Boxing Day a few years back, we lost it as well… atleast he got the full West Ham experience ⚒️
I think the answer is simple: All the overseas clubs have Ultras. Clubs in England don't really have ultras. There isn't a segment of fans who just chant and bang drums all game long. It's not just that though. They are organized, they are the ones who come up with chants and they are the ones who lead protests if need be. England needs that too. The only club that I can think of who have anything approximating ultras is Crystal Palace.
It's highly unlikely for it to exist on a wider scale in English football simple because most supporters of English football clubs ridicule the elements like drums or whistling as being annoying, and therefore, "un-English".
Down at exeter despite only having a smaller ground compared go most the 'big bank' terrace behind the goal is consistently loud (drum included) and regularly out sing home fans when playing away. Granted I'm biased but like you I can't think of another club like it
@@theheadbangguy5985 The example you gave is very apt for me, to be honest. Us Turks tend to get more passionate about football in general. On a side note, I don't support Galatasaray, but rather, Göztepe (who coincidentally are majority-owned by the same people who own Southampton). Then again, attendance-wise, only a number of clubs in the Süper Lig surpass the 14K threshold, those at the moment being the so-called 3 İstanbul giants, the Black Sea rivals Trabzonspor and Samsunspor, as well as the sole representant from the third-largest city in Turkey in the SL, ourselves.
The City Ground has a capacity just shy of 30,000. There are 23,000 season card holders, and the away allocation is usually around 2,500, which leaves very few tickets for "tourists" and leads to a better atmosphere. Not that there are many tickets available for tourists as club members get first dibs and there are only about 1,000 available for general sale (which is done via a raffle). Basically you have to be a Forest fan to get a Forest ticket.
Please do a vid on the 7 biggest teams that flopped. Teams that were expected to dominate and yet completely and utterly failed. I think of the galacticos and psg when I imagine this.
I’m certainly not one to defend either of those sides, but Real Madrid did win a champions league and 2 la Liga titles during that the first galaticos era, and in the second galaticos era they literally dominated Europe more than any other team in football. PSG is a weird one because you’d be hard pressed to argue they haven’t dominated domestically but it’s that champions league trophy that they desperately want that’s evaded them. They’ve only really come close once. There is another video on the channel that goes into much more detail on PSG.
Not rocket science Alfie, it’s the cost. It costs £55 to watch Everton at home, my son and daughter can’t afford to go. Also the strict limit on away fans kills the atmosphere
Evening Alfie - a little bit of gentle youtube stalking here... but please do a video on of Truro City for the reasons previously expressed, we got our record crowd last night and incidentally the atmosphere was rocking... the game was honking, but the atmosphere was great. Theres a pasty in it for you if you do... and we can probably arrange behind the scenes access to our senior team... and maybe a second pasty.
I went regularly late 90s and early 2000s. There was definitely a shift in atmosphere developing and it's worsened since. There's some exceptions, like when a team returns to a top league after many years. But generally it's a sign of how capitalism has killed the game. There's the lack of hope of actually winning anything. There's the assumption you have to play negative football to survive. Assumption for 99% of clubs your best players and youth products will leave. There's the bleak sponsors and ownership, the clear prioritisation of money over the sport and the community. And then there's the players. The wages that have become incomprehensible, even for very poor and average players. While crowds see their living standards drop and ticket prices rise.
Why would you get enthused over a league that’s become a one horse race for the better part of 7 years? There’s more money than ever in the PL but that’s ironically made it more stale and it’s resonating in the stands. The entertainment is just gone and it’s therefore become a passionless affair. Passionate working class fans are being priced out of attending the games and most teams in the division are being priced out of a shot of actually winning the thing.
You bring up a good point. I remember not too long ago when St. James' Park and Selhurst Park were madhouses while Anfield, Old Trafford and Goodison Park could get pretty loud. Now, they're generally pretty silent, save for the ultras group at Selhurst.
Excellent video Alfie, as always. Best narrator ever, and excellent point on the issue. Me as an Argentinian, a lot of times asked my self the question of "why english atmospheres are so boring and cold chested?" (pecho frío in spanish, wich is an "insult" referring to the lack of passion), you gave me the most complete answer.
They can afford it more than the 80s and early 90s while we were still recovering from thatcher . Nowadays even people on benefits have enough extra cash for a season ticket
@JPayne95 what lie ? In the late 80s and 90s working class people had little expendable income and getting things on credit and finance was a lot harder than nowadays . Back then most households I knew had 1 TV for example and if you knew someone with sky or cable it was amazing . Nowadays people on benefits can get finance for a new car or fairly new car pretty easily and everyone has multiple tvs and multiple tv subscriptions and broadband . Everyone has a phone nowadays we even give them free to immigrants we take in legally back then maybe 2 or 3 people in the street had a home phone everyone would ask to use in emergencies etc . There's lots of examples I could give but I'll leave it at that for now
HITC...we need a video on what makes a league a Farmer's League. My son tried to argue that Germany is a Farmer's League because he says the top 4 dont face any real challenges, I said France is the same...where we parted ways was when he said England is like that...the top 4 will always be the top 4...that was until Nottingham Forest jumped in there...then we asked "What is a polar bear doing in Arlington Texas?" I think your style of video would be great to tackle that question.
People are too busy bickering about which side has the worse fans or X stadium is a library, that they don't see the woods for the trees. The premier league sold all integrity and enthusiasm for the game for huge riches. For me at least, supporting a PL club (especially the top six) is akin to supporting a corporation that will gouge you for every penny you have while you cheer them on doing so.
The cost makes a massive difference and has been brewing for 20+ years When my club Pompey got promoted from Div 1 my student/YP season ticket was £110. After promotion the student/YP rates were scraped and my ticket went up to over 600 so I didn’t renew. I missed most of our premier league years as I couldn’t afford to go. I started going on the regular again after we were relegated to league 2
Well said Alfie 👍 I’m one of the older fans you talk about but I still shout and cheer on my team (The Baggies) as I have done since the seventies when tickets were less than £1. I went home and away through the bad days of hooligans that nearly killed the game and the atmosphere at Anfield, Highbury, Old Trafford etc was so much better and louder then. Money is destroying the game with young fans now having to choose between spending a fortune to go or staying home and watching games on tv. Football is no longer a working class game unless you go to non league games.
It's still capable of going up to 11, so I don't think day trippers (a different thing to tourists) are the problem. They'll join in when the critical mass is reached. It's not reached as often as it used to be though. Even the post kick-off rendition of Scouser Tommy seems to have withered on the vine...
The ticket problem has been a problem almost everywhere unfortunately. In portugal a good seat season ticket is 300 to 400 and a premium to champions/europa league ticket for a team to play against lower quality teams even in lower tiers in cup competions you have to toss up 20-40 euros. I remember going to even better seats in 2016 for 10 or 20. And worse a lot of people who pay for the best seats near the pitch don't come unless we play a big game.
Having just got back from Istanbul, I’m not sure alcohol isn’t playing a part in Turkish football atmospheres 😂 but broader point still stands for sure
@@RenegadeMaster137 I mean, alcohol isn't really consumed within the stadia in Turkey, but in daily life, especially in the western parts of the country, people feel freer with drinking without any sense of guilt. It also correlates, for the most part, with one's politics here. The further west you go, the more people consuming alcohol - especially in the Aegean and Thracian parts.
1:30 the thing with the Bundesliga attendances is that big clubs with large stadiums and supporter bases (i.e. Hamburg, Kaiserslautern, Berlin, Schalke) were replaced by corporate clubs with few fans (i.e. Leverkusen. Wolfsburg, Hoffenheim) and small clubs from the rich south with lots of sponsorship money but small stadiums (i.e. Freiburg, Augsburg, Heidenheim, Mainz (also Kiel this season, but their from the north)). i think in total attendances in germany have developed like in England, much of it has simply happened in the 2. Bundesliga.
Not really. Leverkusen have been Bundesliga side for decades and Wolfsburg and Hoffenheim still have average sized stadiums(about 30k). Its because clubs like Union, Heidenheim, Kiel are now in Bundesliga with stadiums that have under 20k capacity. Prem has just Bournemouth with stadium that had under 10k capacity. However your point about big clubs you mentioned alingside Köln, Hannover and Nuremberg are in Bundesliga 2
Just a quick note. Those young folk from the 70s are now the old folk of today. And they were the 40 year olds of the early 2000s. Besides the youth being priced out today, one must note that these old people have been religiously attending matches for decades, and make financial sacrifices in other parts of their lives to do so
At Oxford United we’ve always had a great atmosphere over the past decade I’ve gone to games. The premier league teams who’ve come to our ground in cup games in the past few years, I was totally surprised on how quiet they were. Arsenal, City, West Ham. Best fans all been from way up North in Newcastle & just recently in the championship Burnley.
Alfie, when this topic comes up I am always reminded of Fever Pitch by Nick Hornby (the book). Maybe it would be worthwhile to review with the hindsight of now having had over 30 years gone since its publication and how much it has kind of predicted the future that you have described in this video actually.
As a Barnsley fan, I remember the 4-2 home win against Sheffield Wednesday and the fallout after stewards were heavy handedly trying to calm the atmosphere and force fans to sit down pretty much the whole game. In the playoff semi against Bolton, there were several tannoy announcements about persistent standing leading to closure of the Ponte end. The following night Wednesday had that comeback against Peterborough, at least in some part assisted by the atmosphere in Hillsbrough that night. Recently I’ve seen better atmospheres with 800-1000 people in non league football than the noise coming from the once bouncing ponte end. I feel safe standing areas and cheaper tickets are the only thing going to save the sport in the long term.
3reasons 1- increase in ticket prices which has lead to younger people not going to games and they are the ones who bring the atmosphere 2- the mass popularity in other countries has made it more of a tourist destination then a football match for example when I went to Old Trafford to watch United vs Chelsea I meet people from Finland, Holland and Italy. 3- a lot of modern stadiums are built to be multipurpose, not just for football
Non league is the way forward for me. Prices are far more palatable to a working class family and also you get closer to the players post game. Which the premier league clubs are charging for! The only issue I have with non league is that the atmosphere during the game can be muted crowds are lower and also more casual fans (me included in this)
Great video Alfie! I've given up the Premier League this year and follow German football as someone who loves live football. The Premier League is the best in the world if you're an "arm chair fan" and only watch football on TV - but in person it is HORRENDOUS in comparison to Germany for example. That Utd v Chelsea game was an embarrassment - Redknapp was right 😬 Btw thanks to your Hoffenheim video, I'm off to the World's Best Village Club next month to see how their atmosphere compares to the "traditional" clubs... I'll give you a mention in the video 😅👍🏽 KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK!
Depends the football standard was poorer of course but the availability for working class was much better as it was cheaper and represented the area more. Now city and united fans for example are all over the country
Yeah you're pretty unfortunate to hear that most spanish clubs are also jot exactly revered for the every-week atmosphere. Spains football is VERY event-dependent when it comes to atmosphere.
Your points about reactive vs. active fan culture, especially if we look at Germany, make me think about those compilation videos of American chants vs. British chants. There is always that one clip, where the American capo (or at least dude with the megaphone) is ridiculed for his "fight and win" chant, being called cringy and all that. But then if you actually listen to a lot of what German ultras are chanting and singing, it's precisely that type of thing - "fight and win - we ant to see you fight and win - come on guys score a goal". One of my personal favourite chants for my club, Sturm Graz, reads totally cringy if you translate it and write it down, but if ou hear the whole stand chant it, you can'T help but join in: "We want to see you fight, we want to see you win, because Sturm is our life".
I was very fortunate to have been a season ticket holder at Manchester United from 2011-2017, and fair to say I experienced all sorts of atmospheres at OT in that period. Generally, the atmospheres at most PL games were flat, excluding the big fixtures, or when United were chasing the game. I anticipated European matches so much, knowing that the atmosphere would always be great. There's a video titled 'Man United vs Real Madrid best atmosphere ever' by Jon Huggans from 2013, a match I was lucky enough to attend, and it is only a snapshot of what the atmosphere was like from an hour before KO and throughout the entirety of the match. I have attended several matches since 2017, with difficulties in securing tickets ever an issue with United, and the atmospheres have not once been impressive. I am sure United's own downfall on the pitch has contributed to worsening match day atmospheres, but the wider socio-economic factors are overwhelmingly damaging.
Clubs can make so much more money off of international fans than local ones, a Man U fan going to Old Trafford from Wigan once a season isn't gonna be shelling out for a shirt and scarf and 'fan experience' the way someone from China or Australia would, and the fact that fans from overseas can make it to games at all, especially in an English speaking country in a safe environment is a major draw for the EPL over Serie A or La Liga
As a season ticket holder and a person who goes to away games. The first few games of the season are loud at home! However after a few games you just want to watch the match resulting in a dead atmosphere! The away supporters are the most dedicated so they tend to be the loudest!
Because it's been sanitised beyond belief. Different tiers of hospitality, chasing the tourism club shopping money and alienating their traditional supporters with the cost of going to watch.
I saw a video of a fan asking random fans outside of anfield who a picture of luis garcia was. They literally didnt have a clue, that is an indicator of the types of fans that are able to pay for the tickets nowadays. Tourists, old timers who have had their season tickets for years but cant attend anymore and those business execs who dont care about the clubs. This is why newcastle have a better atmostphere than all of the big 6 clubs because the majority of their stadium is filled by locals and life long supporters
Also due to there being no ultras or pyrotechnics/flags allowed. Scottish teams have started having their own ultras and safe standing areas such as at Celtic or Rangers and the atmosphere being increased
It's astonishing that my local club - South Shields - sells terraced tickets for £16 now. They're in the 6th tier of English football. And the atmosphere is bloody great! Plenty of young supporters there as well. Go support your grassroots local teams instead of watching the big teams!
I think atmosphere is also about showmanship, banners and flags and organized choreos and chants. Purely whistling loudly to create noise (as is practiced a lot in Turkey) doesn't constitute for Atmosphere
Gonna bet that the average age of fans in the PL is much higher than most other leagues, and this keeps things quiet. Older fans hang on for dear life to their season tickets for one thing, while STs are too expensive for most young fans to buy without making some big sacrifices. Personally, I like the organic atmosphere you get in the Premier League when the fans are really up for it-the chants can be hilarious and I like the way the noise rises and falls with what's happening on the pitch. Sadly that kind of atmosphere doesn't come along too often.
I hate booing SO MUCH ! I don't know why but it stresses me out and pisses me off, which is why I don't watch a lot of spanish and italian football, as they're constantly booing the opponent all the time they have the ball for no reason. I much prefer it when a crowd sings, hails performances, and the occasional whistling when there's a reason, like in Germany and England. I don't remember Anfield booing its players, like ever. It must have happened but even during very poor performances, the fans don't leave and don't boo, which is great. I watch football exclusively in TV (a crowd is not ideal when you have social anxiety), so it's hard to know how the atmosphere really is, but german stadium do seem louder (although the TV director can skew things a bit)
You don’t know zero atmosphere until you’ve been to an American sports event. Every nfl stadium packs in 65-70k fans, but you wouldn’t know it from how dead some of the stadiums are. Tickets are so expensive, these games are now such an exclusive event. I went to a Green Bay Packers game earlier this year (we have extremely loyal fans, over 120k on a WAITING LIST for season tickets) and so many fans are selling their tickets to away fans, it felt like an away game at times. 75 thousand fans in the stadium should be absolutely bouncing, but the nfl has totally drained the energy and vitality from the atmosphere at their games
Also the fact that in most other leagues the stadiums often have raucous announcers that are constantly inciting the audience, I don't think that happens in the Premier League.
Not sure about other grounds but Newcastle season ticket holders (95% of the stadium since 1993 btw) never give the tickets up so its natural for the same people to age and have the same people going for 30 years in the same seats. Atmosphere is great still at St James most matches.
Because more middle class fans going to games at Manure Utd, Arsenal , Liverpool can seem to you are in a library. Plus many young people have been rpoces out of most football in England. I live in Bangkok ,my local team Port FC in Thai Tier 1 , my season ticket cost £45 quid. The atmosphere is fantastic as its around £2 .50 for admission . So lots of young people in the crowd. Add on the sterlile atmosphere created by corporate clients. I used to go to World Cup and Euro games but Fifa, Uefa have sanitised football crowds with so many corporate types. I went to a Boca Juniors game in 2018 amazing unique atmosphere. Look what Aston Villa did to their fans , get rid of around 2000 seats yo give to corporate types . English tootball sold its soul a long time ago.
The General Style of Modern Football is Dull, nearly all teams playing a sub standard version of Man City / Pep ball that can be very tedious and lacking in excitement. Also VAR and over technical things have slowed yhat excitement down... When your team scores, you now wait to make sure its a goal. The Crowd Need Something to cheer.
There are a number of factors. 1) All seater and all ticket stadiums don't help. I used to be able to turn up and stand with my friends, or go to the noisy part of the ground. 2) Age is relevant, as is price. 3) Fans are more nervous, the cost of failure/success are not significantly more. Winning the league was all that matters. relegation didn't financially ruin a club, with 2nd tier clubs able to win the FA Cup, and their players play for England. Not its Champions League, and relegation means selling every good player 4) Less English players, means harder for players to be heroes, and the names are potentially harder to fit into a song.
Prophetic words from Roy Keane concerning prawn sandwiches, then? Was a life ambition being from Downunder to experience a PL match at Old Trafford. But Alfie, you've turned me off the idea, no regrets. Better atmosphere at an Ashes test.
The reason the premier league has attendances that are increasing and not elsewhere is down to a simple fact, football is getting more expensive. Only difference is that in England the game is now for the middle class and those empty seats are filled, elsewhere? just not the same. The passion is alive even if the stands are empty.
So I guess that video is the answer why we are fighting so hard to keep 50+1. So as a german we are simularly divided with progressive fews, but the Hamburg chant toward Bremen Fans is still class and everyone is doing it. "Alle Bremer stinken, alle Bremer stinken, weil sie aus der Weser trinken" (just a quote) So basicly: All Bremer are sinking (2x), because they drink from the Weser (a river that gave it's name to the Bremer stadium).
I had thought German football fans were a bit behind the times, however in recent years I can see they were right all along. What good are a few extra dollars if you rip the soul out of the club and competition getting them?
@somethinglikethat2176 That is the eye cancer of english football. I'm genuently curious how someone can overlook the german fan culture after Frankfurt conquered the Camp Nou and turnd it white. La bestia blanca was born. Or as we stopped the corruption of our football League. Do yourself a favore and watch the you tube channel "Fans aus aller Welt" you will learn something what english football lacks cince the 80s.
On the topic of entertainment: In the Bundesliga, coaches that let their team play unattractivly are getting criticized as easily as mangers that lose. Unless it's Augsburg or Union, they, for whatever reason, like to sit in their half of the field winning by waiting for opponents mistakes.
Crowds are getting older. Part of it is the expense. Then you have people who have held season tickets for the entirety of the Premier League. The wait time for a Liverpool season ticket is 30 years.
I imagine that atmosphere problems in the Premier League have a lot of similar roots to the quite, corporate atmospheres in the American Big 4 men's sports leagues (NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL). Those leagues have priced out a lot of average fans and a lot of people who are there are older, quieter, wealthier and mainly there to be seen, not to root for the team. MLS atmospheres still aren't nearly as good as soccer/football leagues in other parts of the world, but since most teams have encouraged supporters clubs and built terraced sections the atmospheres in MLS are generally better than the other American pro sports. College sports in America, particularly Division 1 (American) football, men's basketball and men's hockey usually have much better atmospheres than their pro counterparts due to many of the factors you attributed to louder fans. Tickets are cheaper and there are more young, drunk fans and a Student Section standing all together that approximate supporters sections in football leagues across the world. EDIT: I will note that I do think that one of the good things about American sports, even though it sacrifices atmosphere to a great degree, is that opposing fans are generally friendly with each other, are mixed throughout seats and concourses, there is very little police presence compared to other countries and you almost never feel like you need to fear for your safety to attend any game in any city (except perhaps Philadelphia Eaglse playoff games).
@@F1KrazyThat's exactly what popped into my mind when I read that. Didn't he score an own goal, give away a penalty and get sent off after like 23 minutes? 😂
@@roryslaine7896 Something like that! I'm sure there have been bad debuts that were more consequential in the long term, but you'd be hard pressed to find one that was worse than that in the short term!
I've had a West Ham season ticket (cheapest in the league) since they moved to the Olympic Stadium. Despite the size and capacity of the venue it is never consistently loud. It picks up when they play well (rarely) or if the ref / opposition do something shady (often). Sadly West Ham never play consistently well through an entire match. So it makes sense. The loudest it has been since I've been there was last year's Europa match Vs Bayer Leverkusen. Most atmospheric football match I have ever been to was Barcelona Vs Seville at Camp Nou when Messi and Suarez were destroying them. Will always remember it.
The issue is fans are now middle aged people in comfy chairs spending the whole game eating and taking selfies. The same issue leads to huge rushes for the concourses at around 43 minutes and 89 minutes. People get on the ticket list and stay on them meaning younger fans can't get on
In Australia the Melbourne Cricket Ground has a waiting list for their members and to get a seat for their kids people sign them up when they're born. That's not an exaggeration. One mate had his dad sign him up when he was about a month old.
Which current teams do premier League general sale tickets?😮 From my knowledge, Wolverhampton, West Ham, Fulham, Southampton, Aston Villa and sometimes Crystal Palace in South East London.😅
#thepeopleschannel a video on the Bangladesh premier league and the rise of Bashundhara kings would be good A team who went into the top flight after promotion and won the last Six league titles now! Are they the next Newcastle? Are they a team to keep a eye on next few years? Thanks Alfie 😊
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Keep in mind the underperformance of many German clubs in large stadiums has brought the Bundesliga average down. When Heidenheim in their 15k stadium is in the top flight instead of Schalke in their 62k stadium it causes a natural drop
Was going to say the same thing. 5 of the top 10 biggest stadiums aren't in the Bundesliga. In addition the Bundesliga has Keil and Union as well which have smaller stadiums
@@GodfatherBoxSet Next season will be fun with Union playing at the Olympiastadion.
@MrMakabar are they playing games there becuase of stadium renovations. They will easily get 90k+ per match if they are good
@@GodfatherBoxSet yes, they nearly rebuilt the stadium to nearly double the capacity to 37700, with most of them being standing. Probably the best new stadium being planned right now.
People are too focused taking a gazillion pics than actually enjoying the match. Especially the top 6 sides
Big six or sky six please. The top six is a league position earned on the pitch but the big/sky six refers more clearly to the media and arguably refereeing favouritism
@@Kanbei11bro literally nobody is using that term, I think everyone knows what you mean when you say “big 6” anyway. Obviously it’s not all about on-pitch success, it’s about revenue and popularity as well.
This unfortunately happens to any event nowadays people are more focused to record or take pictures than actually experience it .
Premier League fans = tourists
@@Kanbei11 you're not a trend setter.
What ive noticed working at a non league club is more and more youbg people (15-25) have been attending games lower down in non league.
I feel the growing age of efl and epl attendances is affecting this as kids cant afford to go to those league sides so they spend 5-10 quid for a ticket at a non league club and its improving the atmosphere loads at lower levels
EFL prices are still relatively normal - unless you support Birmingham or Wrexham and get charged over £30 for an away ticket to Leyton fucking Orient
Agree mate
@MrRafting tbf in the national league it can still be extortionate, Aldershot town whos one of my locals charge 20 quid for an adult ticket which imo is stupud amounts for the level
I agree with you and in the 80s and early 90s most working class people couldn't afford luxuries like match day tickets due to still being in recovery from the thatcher destruction .
Best time I’ve had at football have been at Solihull Moors where the ticket cost £10 and the game finished 7-2 to Moors. Corby Town’s away support were on a stag do and it was great. Fuck the EPL.
The funny thing about the "you're going home in an f-ing ambulance" chant has always been that ambulances don't actually take you home, they take you to a hospital.
They take you home after that if you need it.
@@VelvetMetrolink They're hospital/patient transport not an ambulance.
@apropercuppa8612 I have been taken home in an ambulance. If you disagree that I have, or disagree that it was an ambulance, that will not change the fact.
That sounds like the most expensive Über ever (speaking as an American). We have people who rather ride scooters while bleeding out than take an ambulance because of the insane costs...what is that like in the UK? Is it cheaper for your medical insurance?
@@lostsoldier212 Ambulances are free in UK. And they would have been free in USA if you had voted Kamala. Doh!
Looking at Bundesliga attendances you have to consider that big Clubs with huge Stadiums Like Schalke and Hamburg are now in the 2nd Division and small Clubs with small Stadiums are now in the Bundesliga
German second tier attendance is nuts. There's probably nothing like it in the world.
Working class fans have been priced out in favour of tourists who can pay for the "premium" experience and have no real attachment to the clubs.
I go to Scottish lowland league games with an average attendance of 1-200 and theres a better atmosphere there for £10
Don't say that, the channel will call u racist 😂
All those Irish, Norwegian and Indian bin dipper "fans"
@JPayne95 He talked about tourists attending games in the vid you bellend
I have been to premier league matches, as well as have season tickets to Vfb Stuttgart. I was shocked at how much more reserved/mellow the premier league is compared to Bundesliga. Bundesliga, Serie A, La Liga, even Ekstraklasa are all more lively and entertaining.
By a metric ton more entertaining
You seldom see woke shite in La Liga or Serie A stadiums
@@juanjoseph- That's because they are massive problems with racism in both those leagues. Small, vocal minority of idiots, so I don't think it's everyone, but you can see it all the way from here (US).
Ok, as a life long fan of the sport, I am admittedly just getting interested in Bundesliga. I love LaLiga and Prem, and am also getting into Italian matches...but why do German Clubs have extra initials that aren't part of the name of the club or city? Seriously interested in that. My kids and I were trying to understand what that all means. Example: BVB Dortman, RB Leipzig, or VfB Stuttgart?
@@lostsoldier212
The initials are the short form of the officially registered name. F.e. VfB Stuttgart in full form stands for Verein(Club) für (for) Bewegungsspiele (movement sports) Stuttgart 1893 e.V.(registered club).
Bay fow bay = bvb = ball game club
Rb = Rasenballsport = lawn ball games (Red Bull sponsored, changed to get around calling them Red Bull Leipzig)
Vfb = Verein für Bewegungsspiele = Association for active games
Same as a club being "united" or "athletic club", just German
Best German players in the premier league of all time. (Day 694)
Alternativly you could do "Best German players who played outside the Bundesliga" or something like that if you prefer.
I will not give up until the video is made or Alfie himself tells me to stop. Everyone else telling me that will be ignored.
If you don't believe my number, just go back to the previous videos. I'm at the bottom most of the time, but I'm there.
Who do you see in the list? Most top German players I can think of either never played in the Prem or went on to do bigger and better things elsewhere.
@@scotttaber7008Der Hammer, Not that I'm biased lol
1. Ballack
2. Özil
3. Gündogan
4. Havertz
5. Poldi
6. Mertesacker
7. Sané
8. Huth
9. Groß
10. Lehmann
Just as an inspiration, Alfie.
@@philippjansen7199damn, you do Lehmann dirty. He was insane good, well and simply insane, at Arsenal. Would Put him in the top three.
I'm just up voting this because I admire your effort.
Great video, so much to think about. I'd echo the whole age profile thing. When I first went to watch Liverpool regularly at the turn of the century - yes, I am old - I joined in every chant and jumped around like a mad thing at every opportunity. Nowadays I like to pick my moments, and they're gradually getting further apart. And here's the kicker: I'm a season ticket holder. I applied in 2001 and finally got one on the summer of...wait for it....2023! The waiting list closed years ago so everyone currently on it must be at least in their mid-20's, and even then only if someone put them on it when they were born. More likely there is no one under the age of 30 on the list, and there's no way I'm dropping off it. I'd literally never get one again. So I'm the equivalent of a bed blocker, preventing the next generation of supporter coming through who would join in every chant and jump around like a mad thing at every opportunity. I don't know what the solution is. The first step to one is, as always, to admit there's a problem.
Watching the England national team playing at Wembley..it's such a painful experience
Feels like they'd get a better audience if they took their games across the country again
Blame that fucking band!
A ticket to watch my local Ligue 1 side costs around 50-75~€ and you get a good spot. I paid 100€ for a good Champions League seat.
I remember my brother having to pay 200£ to watch West Ham - Southampton to fulfill his dream of watching a Hammers match live and being floored by that price
What ligue 1 team?
@anonymousa591 Stade Brestois
That's still a pretty high price when compared to other leagues, I pay around 25€ for a seated ticket in Mönchengladbach and 16€ for a standing ticket.
@fischlimonade That is true. I still feel at times it's too high. But the Premier League reminds me of how much worse it could get
Our prices for single games are ridiculous, tho €200 is higher than I even knew we charged. We have the cheapest season tickets in the league, mine cost me £630 or around that n in like the 5th row behind the goal, but single match tickets start at like £60 which is ludicrous to me
Also, I’m so sorry your brothers dream was to watch us play, if it’s the Southampton match I’m thinking of on Boxing Day a few years back, we lost it as well… atleast he got the full West Ham experience ⚒️
I think the answer is simple:
All the overseas clubs have Ultras. Clubs in England don't really have ultras. There isn't a segment of fans who just chant and bang drums all game long. It's not just that though. They are organized, they are the ones who come up with chants and they are the ones who lead protests if need be.
England needs that too. The only club that I can think of who have anything approximating ultras is Crystal Palace.
The ultras disrupt the rich folk who are there to enjoy the game in quite /s
It's highly unlikely for it to exist on a wider scale in English football simple because most supporters of English football clubs ridicule the elements like drums or whistling as being annoying, and therefore, "un-English".
@@abnormalanorak that is ultra dumb to be honest. That's why playing away at Galatasaray is far more challenging than playing away at Southampton.
Down at exeter despite only having a smaller ground compared go most the 'big bank' terrace behind the goal is consistently loud (drum included) and regularly out sing home fans when playing away. Granted I'm biased but like you I can't think of another club like it
@@theheadbangguy5985 The example you gave is very apt for me, to be honest. Us Turks tend to get more passionate about football in general.
On a side note, I don't support Galatasaray, but rather, Göztepe (who coincidentally are majority-owned by the same people who own Southampton). Then again, attendance-wise, only a number of clubs in the Süper Lig surpass the 14K threshold, those at the moment being the so-called 3 İstanbul giants, the Black Sea rivals Trabzonspor and Samsunspor, as well as the sole representant from the third-largest city in Turkey in the SL, ourselves.
The City Ground has a capacity just shy of 30,000. There are 23,000 season card holders, and the away allocation is usually around 2,500, which leaves very few tickets for "tourists" and leads to a better atmosphere. Not that there are many tickets available for tourists as club members get first dibs and there are only about 1,000 available for general sale (which is done via a raffle).
Basically you have to be a Forest fan to get a Forest ticket.
I still remember the Adebayor chant we had and the one about Van Persie when he went to United. Times sure have changed
A great man once said something about a prawn sandwich
Please do a vid on the 7 biggest teams that flopped. Teams that were expected to dominate and yet completely and utterly failed. I think of the galacticos and psg when I imagine this.
I’m certainly not one to defend either of those sides, but Real Madrid did win a champions league and 2 la Liga titles during that the first galaticos era, and in the second galaticos era they literally dominated Europe more than any other team in football.
PSG is a weird one because you’d be hard pressed to argue they haven’t dominated domestically but it’s that champions league trophy that they desperately want that’s evaded them. They’ve only really come close once. There is another video on the channel that goes into much more detail on PSG.
He pretty much did recently, about the worst pound-for-pound teams of all time
Your channel is like an oasis in the world of content. Keep on making us happy with your work!💡😉🍮
The catchup to Bundesliga its also because Koln Hamburg and Schalke are in the 2nd division .
You can add Hertha and Dusseldorf and even Hannover
Nearly spat my lunch out at work when Alfie went off about the man United vip experience 😂😂
Havent even watched the video yet but i am scared of the comments this video will get
Doesn't seem bad so far... surprisingly.
20:25 Fell like this is one of the first times we've heard Alfie swear
Well, he did swear at Jim Ratcliffe (rightly so) a few weeks back.
Not rocket science Alfie, it’s the cost. It costs £55 to watch Everton at home, my son and daughter can’t afford to go. Also the strict limit on away fans kills the atmosphere
Evening Alfie - a little bit of gentle youtube stalking here... but please do a video on of Truro City for the reasons previously expressed, we got our record crowd last night and incidentally the atmosphere was rocking... the game was honking, but the atmosphere was great. Theres a pasty in it for you if you do... and we can probably arrange behind the scenes access to our senior team... and maybe a second pasty.
At this point I just want to go to a match and sing with Alfie until we are both hoarse
🐴 🐴
I went regularly late 90s and early 2000s. There was definitely a shift in atmosphere developing and it's worsened since. There's some exceptions, like when a team returns to a top league after many years. But generally it's a sign of how capitalism has killed the game. There's the lack of hope of actually winning anything. There's the assumption you have to play negative football to survive. Assumption for 99% of clubs your best players and youth products will leave. There's the bleak sponsors and ownership, the clear prioritisation of money over the sport and the community. And then there's the players. The wages that have become incomprehensible, even for very poor and average players. While crowds see their living standards drop and ticket prices rise.
And the worst part of all of this isthat the capitalism, within the confines of football, will never die unless a miracle happens.
Why would you get enthused over a league that’s become a one horse race for the better part of 7 years? There’s more money than ever in the PL but that’s ironically made it more stale and it’s resonating in the stands. The entertainment is just gone and it’s therefore become a passionless affair. Passionate working class fans are being priced out of attending the games and most teams in the division are being priced out of a shot of actually winning the thing.
You bring up a good point. I remember not too long ago when St. James' Park and Selhurst Park were madhouses while Anfield, Old Trafford and Goodison Park could get pretty loud. Now, they're generally pretty silent, save for the ultras group at Selhurst.
Excellent video Alfie, as always. Best narrator ever, and excellent point on the issue. Me as an Argentinian, a lot of times asked my self the question of "why english atmospheres are so boring and cold chested?" (pecho frío in spanish, wich is an "insult" referring to the lack of passion), you gave me the most complete answer.
Normal working class people can hardly afford tickets for the big clubs anymore, and they're the ones who really bring/brought the atmosphere. Imo.
They can afford it more than the 80s and early 90s while we were still recovering from thatcher . Nowadays even people on benefits have enough extra cash for a season ticket
@christophergallagher3845 that is bollox mate, £70 a week for tickets is impossible for anyone on benefits.
@@christophergallagher3845honestly that is the biggest lie iv seen since we were told covid wasn't from China
@JPayne95 what lie ? In the late 80s and 90s working class people had little expendable income and getting things on credit and finance was a lot harder than nowadays . Back then most households I knew had 1 TV for example and if you knew someone with sky or cable it was amazing . Nowadays people on benefits can get finance for a new car or fairly new car pretty easily and everyone has multiple tvs and multiple tv subscriptions and broadband . Everyone has a phone nowadays we even give them free to immigrants we take in legally back then maybe 2 or 3 people in the street had a home phone everyone would ask to use in emergencies etc . There's lots of examples I could give but I'll leave it at that for now
@@christophergallagher3845People on Universal Credit can afford a season ticket at the Emirates?! What are you on?!
It's gone the way of the cinema. Double the price, halved attendances = same revenue
HITC...we need a video on what makes a league a Farmer's League. My son tried to argue that Germany is a Farmer's League because he says the top 4 dont face any real challenges, I said France is the same...where we parted ways was when he said England is like that...the top 4 will always be the top 4...that was until Nottingham Forest jumped in there...then we asked "What is a polar bear doing in Arlington Texas?" I think your style of video would be great to tackle that question.
People are too busy bickering about which side has the worse fans or X stadium is a library, that they don't see the woods for the trees. The premier league sold all integrity and enthusiasm for the game for huge riches. For me at least, supporting a PL club (especially the top six) is akin to supporting a corporation that will gouge you for every penny you have while you cheer them on doing so.
@@humphrey10-88 If that's not football's equivalent of Stockholm Syndrome, I don't know what is.
The cost makes a massive difference and has been brewing for 20+ years
When my club Pompey got promoted from Div 1 my student/YP season ticket was £110. After promotion the student/YP rates were scraped and my ticket went up to over 600 so I didn’t renew. I missed most of our premier league years as I couldn’t afford to go. I started going on the regular again after we were relegated to league 2
Well said Alfie 👍
I’m one of the older fans you talk about but I still shout and cheer on my team (The Baggies) as I have done since the seventies when tickets were less than £1.
I went home and away through the bad days of hooligans that nearly killed the game and the atmosphere at Anfield, Highbury, Old Trafford etc was so much better and louder then.
Money is destroying the game with young fans now having to choose between spending a fortune to go or staying home and watching games on tv.
Football is no longer a working class game unless you go to non league games.
Anfield was rocking last night & league game vs Brighton.. its few & far between these days admittedly
It's still capable of going up to 11, so I don't think day trippers (a different thing to tourists) are the problem. They'll join in when the critical mass is reached. It's not reached as often as it used to be though. Even the post kick-off rendition of Scouser Tommy seems to have withered on the vine...
My favorite guy again!!!!
Always a great listen ALFIE!
Hello from Las Vegas😅
20:22 I have to agree with Alfie there 😂😂 why tf would you go to a football stadium if you want to avoid the crowds?
I don't come here for football, I come for long intros and moments like 22:22
The ticket problem has been a problem almost everywhere unfortunately. In portugal a good seat season ticket is 300 to 400 and a premium to champions/europa league ticket for a team to play against lower quality teams even in lower tiers in cup competions you have to toss up 20-40 euros. I remember going to even better seats in 2016 for 10 or 20. And worse a lot of people who pay for the best seats near the pitch don't come unless we play a big game.
Having just got back from Istanbul, I’m not sure alcohol isn’t playing a part in Turkish football atmospheres 😂 but broader point still stands for sure
@@RenegadeMaster137 I mean, alcohol isn't really consumed within the stadia in Turkey, but in daily life, especially in the western parts of the country, people feel freer with drinking without any sense of guilt. It also correlates, for the most part, with one's politics here. The further west you go, the more people consuming alcohol - especially in the Aegean and Thracian parts.
Check Celtic park last night home to RB Leipzig,England can never replicate such an atmosphere
1:30 the thing with the Bundesliga attendances is that big clubs with large stadiums and supporter bases (i.e. Hamburg, Kaiserslautern, Berlin, Schalke) were replaced by corporate clubs with few fans (i.e. Leverkusen. Wolfsburg, Hoffenheim) and small clubs from the rich south with lots of sponsorship money but small stadiums (i.e. Freiburg, Augsburg, Heidenheim, Mainz (also Kiel this season, but their from the north)). i think in total attendances in germany have developed like in England, much of it has simply happened in the 2. Bundesliga.
Not really. Leverkusen have been Bundesliga side for decades and Wolfsburg and Hoffenheim still have average sized stadiums(about 30k). Its because clubs like Union, Heidenheim, Kiel are now in Bundesliga with stadiums that have under 20k capacity. Prem has just Bournemouth with stadium that had under 10k capacity. However your point about big clubs you mentioned alingside Köln, Hannover and Nuremberg are in Bundesliga 2
Just a quick note. Those young folk from the 70s are now the old folk of today. And they were the 40 year olds of the early 2000s.
Besides the youth being priced out today, one must note that these old people have been religiously attending matches for decades, and make financial sacrifices in other parts of their lives to do so
At Oxford United we’ve always had a great atmosphere over the past decade I’ve gone to games. The premier league teams who’ve come to our ground in cup games in the past few years, I was totally surprised on how quiet they were. Arsenal, City, West Ham. Best fans all been from way up North in Newcastle & just recently in the championship Burnley.
Alfie, when this topic comes up I am always reminded of Fever Pitch by Nick Hornby (the book). Maybe it would be worthwhile to review with the hindsight of now having had over 30 years gone since its publication and how much it has kind of predicted the future that you have described in this video actually.
As a Barnsley fan, I remember the 4-2 home win against Sheffield Wednesday and the fallout after stewards were heavy handedly trying to calm the atmosphere and force fans to sit down pretty much the whole game. In the playoff semi against Bolton, there were several tannoy announcements about persistent standing leading to closure of the Ponte end. The following night Wednesday had that comeback against Peterborough, at least in some part assisted by the atmosphere in Hillsbrough that night. Recently I’ve seen better atmospheres with 800-1000 people in non league football than the noise coming from the once bouncing ponte end. I feel safe standing areas and cheaper tickets are the only thing going to save the sport in the long term.
3reasons
1- increase in ticket prices which has lead to younger people not going to games and they are the ones who bring the atmosphere
2- the mass popularity in other countries has made it more of a tourist destination then a football match for example when I went to Old Trafford to watch United vs Chelsea I meet people from Finland, Holland and Italy.
3- a lot of modern stadiums are built to be multipurpose, not just for football
Non league is the way forward for me. Prices are far more palatable to a working class family and also you get closer to the players post game. Which the premier league clubs are charging for! The only issue I have with non league is that the atmosphere during the game can be muted crowds are lower and also more casual fans (me included in this)
Alfie, if you are ever in Frankfurt, I'll invite you to a Frankfurt game since you forget to mention us. But great episode, as ever.
The serie a attendance drop is due to the rules brung in to combat the hooligan problem if i remember right
yep a lot of ultra groups "boycotting"
I need an Alfie video to distract from the dumpster fire of the US election.
Ngl I've been ignoring both that and the war in the ME pretty hard.
Great video Alfie! I've given up the Premier League this year and follow German football as someone who loves live football. The Premier League is the best in the world if you're an "arm chair fan" and only watch football on TV - but in person it is HORRENDOUS in comparison to Germany for example. That Utd v Chelsea game was an embarrassment - Redknapp was right 😬 Btw thanks to your Hoffenheim video, I'm off to the World's Best Village Club next month to see how their atmosphere compares to the "traditional" clubs... I'll give you a mention in the video 😅👍🏽 KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK!
Unpopular opinion.
Domestic football was better before the Premier League. Take us back to pre 1992.
...Maybe without the collapsing stadiums.
Yer the "everything was better back the day" argument is really unpopular...
@@LiamHaHaX😅. The 1940´s were peak humanity
Depends the football standard was poorer of course but the availability for working class was much better as it was cheaper and represented the area more. Now city and united fans for example are all over the country
"Unpopular opinion: popular opinion"
The Amex would be sounding like the Nou Camp but the kick off times are ridiculous 😡
Unfortunately the Camp nou is not known for its atmosphere
@ I had one job 😞
Yeah you're pretty unfortunate to hear that most spanish clubs are also jot exactly revered for the every-week atmosphere. Spains football is VERY event-dependent when it comes to atmosphere.
@@ilzuab8467 it really is a shame, i wander if one day it will be completely Americanised and devoid of any character.
Younger fans who will create more atmosphere are priced out and have been replaced by the middle class and tourists.
Yes!..finally somebody made this video!..I might be diametrically opposed to u on some things Alfie but when u hit..u hit good. Fair play
Your points about reactive vs. active fan culture, especially if we look at Germany, make me think about those compilation videos of American chants vs. British chants. There is always that one clip, where the American capo (or at least dude with the megaphone) is ridiculed for his "fight and win" chant, being called cringy and all that. But then if you actually listen to a lot of what German ultras are chanting and singing, it's precisely that type of thing - "fight and win - we ant to see you fight and win - come on guys score a goal". One of my personal favourite chants for my club, Sturm Graz, reads totally cringy if you translate it and write it down, but if ou hear the whole stand chant it, you can'T help but join in: "We want to see you fight, we want to see you win, because Sturm is our life".
Its not just the premier league, you can go to any match on a Saturday now no matter the level and it'll be quiet as sin.
I was very fortunate to have been a season ticket holder at Manchester United from 2011-2017, and fair to say I experienced all sorts of atmospheres at OT in that period. Generally, the atmospheres at most PL games were flat, excluding the big fixtures, or when United were chasing the game. I anticipated European matches so much, knowing that the atmosphere would always be great. There's a video titled 'Man United vs Real Madrid best atmosphere ever' by Jon Huggans from 2013, a match I was lucky enough to attend, and it is only a snapshot of what the atmosphere was like from an hour before KO and throughout the entirety of the match. I have attended several matches since 2017, with difficulties in securing tickets ever an issue with United, and the atmospheres have not once been impressive. I am sure United's own downfall on the pitch has contributed to worsening match day atmospheres, but the wider socio-economic factors are overwhelmingly damaging.
Clubs can make so much more money off of international fans than local ones, a Man U fan going to Old Trafford from Wigan once a season isn't gonna be shelling out for a shirt and scarf and 'fan experience' the way someone from China or Australia would, and the fact that fans from overseas can make it to games at all, especially in an English speaking country in a safe environment is a major draw for the EPL over Serie A or La Liga
As a season ticket holder and a person who goes to away games. The first few games of the season are loud at home! However after a few games you just want to watch the match resulting in a dead atmosphere! The away supporters are the most dedicated so they tend to be the loudest!
Tottenham Hotspur stadium was absolutely rocking at the weekend against villa COYS
Because it's been sanitised beyond belief. Different tiers of hospitality, chasing the tourism club shopping money and alienating their traditional supporters with the cost of going to watch.
I saw a video of a fan asking random fans outside of anfield who a picture of luis garcia was. They literally didnt have a clue, that is an indicator of the types of fans that are able to pay for the tickets nowadays. Tourists, old timers who have had their season tickets for years but cant attend anymore and those business execs who dont care about the clubs.
This is why newcastle have a better atmostphere than all of the big 6 clubs because the majority of their stadium is filled by locals and life long supporters
Also due to there being no ultras or pyrotechnics/flags allowed. Scottish teams have started having their own ultras and safe standing areas such as at Celtic or Rangers and the atmosphere being increased
It's astonishing that my local club - South Shields - sells terraced tickets for £16 now.
They're in the 6th tier of English football. And the atmosphere is bloody great! Plenty of young supporters there as well.
Go support your grassroots local teams instead of watching the big teams!
Babe wake up new HITC Sevens video up
CRINGE.
You're only saying that because you cant relate@daryld4457
Because you gotta wait 8 minutes for VAR to make a decision for every single thing that happens. Gone is the spontaneous celebration.
VAR is a thing in every top league
@@chickenindabox3169It's worse in our league because it's the most watched so they take extra care and !onger to make decisions.
@@EdwardHinton-qs4ryand still get the decisions wrong 🥲🤣
@@maxchan9537 Yeah. Ppl are scared to celebrate a goal now.
@@EdwardHinton-qs4ry wht is your evidence that the Premier League takes longer time than in other 4 leagues?
I'll wait.
I think atmosphere is also about showmanship, banners and flags and organized choreos and chants. Purely whistling loudly to create noise (as is practiced a lot in Turkey) doesn't constitute for Atmosphere
TH-cam has a sense of running MonopolyGo adverts in the middle of the Manchester United hospitality suite segment 😂
Gonna bet that the average age of fans in the PL is much higher than most other leagues, and this keeps things quiet. Older fans hang on for dear life to their season tickets for one thing, while STs are too expensive for most young fans to buy without making some big sacrifices. Personally, I like the organic atmosphere you get in the Premier League when the fans are really up for it-the chants can be hilarious and I like the way the noise rises and falls with what's happening on the pitch. Sadly that kind of atmosphere doesn't come along too often.
I hate booing SO MUCH ! I don't know why but it stresses me out and pisses me off, which is why I don't watch a lot of spanish and italian football, as they're constantly booing the opponent all the time they have the ball for no reason. I much prefer it when a crowd sings, hails performances, and the occasional whistling when there's a reason, like in Germany and England. I don't remember Anfield booing its players, like ever. It must have happened but even during very poor performances, the fans don't leave and don't boo, which is great.
I watch football exclusively in TV (a crowd is not ideal when you have social anxiety), so it's hard to know how the atmosphere really is, but german stadium do seem louder (although the TV director can skew things a bit)
You don’t know zero atmosphere until you’ve been to an American sports event. Every nfl stadium packs in 65-70k fans, but you wouldn’t know it from how dead some of the stadiums are. Tickets are so expensive, these games are now such an exclusive event. I went to a Green Bay Packers game earlier this year (we have extremely loyal fans, over 120k on a WAITING LIST for season tickets) and so many fans are selling their tickets to away fans, it felt like an away game at times. 75 thousand fans in the stadium should be absolutely bouncing, but the nfl has totally drained the energy and vitality from the atmosphere at their games
This intro was peak!
Also the fact that in most other leagues the stadiums often have raucous announcers that are constantly inciting the audience, I don't think that happens in the Premier League.
Not sure about other grounds but Newcastle season ticket holders (95% of the stadium since 1993 btw) never give the tickets up so its natural for the same people to age and have the same people going for 30 years in the same seats. Atmosphere is great still at St James most matches.
Because more middle class fans going to games at Manure Utd, Arsenal , Liverpool can seem to you are in a library. Plus many young people have been rpoces out of most football in England. I live in Bangkok ,my local team Port FC in Thai Tier 1 , my season ticket cost £45 quid. The atmosphere is fantastic as its around £2 .50 for admission . So lots of young people in the crowd. Add on the sterlile atmosphere created by corporate clients. I used to go to World Cup and Euro games but Fifa, Uefa have sanitised football crowds with so many corporate types. I went to a Boca Juniors game in 2018 amazing unique atmosphere. Look what Aston Villa did to their fans , get rid of around 2000 seats yo give to corporate types . English tootball sold its soul a long time ago.
The General Style of Modern Football is Dull, nearly all teams playing a sub standard version of Man City / Pep ball that can be very tedious and lacking in excitement.
Also VAR and over technical things have slowed yhat excitement down... When your team scores, you now wait to make sure its a goal.
The Crowd Need Something to cheer.
Stadium design, sanitised experience, tourist fans and price of the overall package.
Give me non league football any day of the week! Up the Linnets 🌽
There are a number of factors.
1) All seater and all ticket stadiums don't help. I used to be able to turn up and stand with my friends, or go to the noisy part of the ground.
2) Age is relevant, as is price.
3) Fans are more nervous, the cost of failure/success are not significantly more. Winning the league was all that matters. relegation didn't financially ruin a club, with 2nd tier clubs able to win the FA Cup, and their players play for England. Not its Champions League, and relegation means selling every good player
4) Less English players, means harder for players to be heroes, and the names are potentially harder to fit into a song.
Prophetic words from Roy Keane concerning prawn sandwiches, then? Was a life ambition being from Downunder to experience a PL match at Old Trafford. But Alfie, you've turned me off the idea, no regrets. Better atmosphere at an Ashes test.
The reason the premier league has attendances that are increasing and not elsewhere is down to a simple fact, football is getting more expensive. Only difference is that in England the game is now for the middle class and those empty seats are filled, elsewhere? just not the same. The passion is alive even if the stands are empty.
So I guess that video is the answer why we are fighting so hard to keep 50+1.
So as a german we are simularly divided with progressive fews, but the Hamburg chant toward Bremen Fans is still class and everyone is doing it.
"Alle Bremer stinken, alle Bremer stinken, weil sie aus der Weser trinken" (just a quote)
So basicly: All Bremer are sinking (2x), because they drink from the Weser (a river that gave it's name to the Bremer stadium).
I had thought German football fans were a bit behind the times, however in recent years I can see they were right all along.
What good are a few extra dollars if you rip the soul out of the club and competition getting them?
@somethinglikethat2176 That is the eye cancer of english football. I'm genuently curious how someone can overlook the german fan culture after Frankfurt conquered the Camp Nou and turnd it white. La bestia blanca was born. Or as we stopped the corruption of our football League. Do yourself a favore and watch the you tube channel "Fans aus aller Welt" you will learn something what english football lacks cince the 80s.
Fulham best described as a bus stop charging 3000 for a season ticket is wild. Do you also get year long bus pass with it too?
On the topic of entertainment: In the Bundesliga, coaches that let their team play unattractivly are getting criticized as easily as mangers that lose. Unless it's Augsburg or Union, they, for whatever reason, like to sit in their half of the field winning by waiting for opponents mistakes.
Young people are either banned from the stadium or to busy on their phones betting & watching illegal streams
Bonbonera is on my bucketlist!
Crowds are getting older. Part of it is the expense. Then you have people who have held season tickets for the entirety of the Premier League. The wait time for a Liverpool season ticket is 30 years.
I imagine that atmosphere problems in the Premier League have a lot of similar roots to the quite, corporate atmospheres in the American Big 4 men's sports leagues (NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL). Those leagues have priced out a lot of average fans and a lot of people who are there are older, quieter, wealthier and mainly there to be seen, not to root for the team. MLS atmospheres still aren't nearly as good as soccer/football leagues in other parts of the world, but since most teams have encouraged supporters clubs and built terraced sections the atmospheres in MLS are generally better than the other American pro sports. College sports in America, particularly Division 1 (American) football, men's basketball and men's hockey usually have much better atmospheres than their pro counterparts due to many of the factors you attributed to louder fans. Tickets are cheaper and there are more young, drunk fans and a Student Section standing all together that approximate supporters sections in football leagues across the world.
EDIT: I will note that I do think that one of the good things about American sports, even though it sacrifices atmosphere to a great degree, is that opposing fans are generally friendly with each other, are mixed throughout seats and concourses, there is very little police presence compared to other countries and you almost never feel like you need to fear for your safety to attend any game in any city (except perhaps Philadelphia Eaglse playoff games).
7 worst debut games (for a player) of all time. The more consequential, the better.
Jonathan Woodgate at Real Madrid springs to mind
@@F1KrazyThat's exactly what popped into my mind when I read that. Didn't he score an own goal, give away a penalty and get sent off after like 23 minutes? 😂
@@roryslaine7896 Something like that! I'm sure there have been bad debuts that were more consequential in the long term, but you'd be hard pressed to find one that was worse than that in the short term!
Video idea: 7 best individual seasons who somehow didn't got a Ballon d'or nominations
Diego Milito 2010 comes to mind 😂
Grafite 09
I've had a West Ham season ticket (cheapest in the league) since they moved to the Olympic Stadium. Despite the size and capacity of the venue it is never consistently loud. It picks up when they play well (rarely) or if the ref / opposition do something shady (often). Sadly West Ham never play consistently well through an entire match. So it makes sense. The loudest it has been since I've been there was last year's Europa match Vs Bayer Leverkusen.
Most atmospheric football match I have ever been to was Barcelona Vs Seville at Camp Nou when Messi and Suarez were destroying them. Will always remember it.
Big clubs in Germany are now in the 2. Bundesliga while smaller clubs with small stadions stay in the Bundesliga.
The issue is fans are now middle aged people in comfy chairs spending the whole game eating and taking selfies. The same issue leads to huge rushes for the concourses at around 43 minutes and 89 minutes. People get on the ticket list and stay on them meaning younger fans can't get on
In Australia the Melbourne Cricket Ground has a waiting list for their members and to get a seat for their kids people sign them up when they're born. That's not an exaggeration. One mate had his dad sign him up when he was about a month old.
Which current teams do premier League general sale tickets?😮
From my knowledge, Wolverhampton, West Ham, Fulham, Southampton, Aston Villa and sometimes Crystal Palace in South East London.😅
I have not been able to buy a ticket to a home game since covid, even though I pay for the membership and apply for the ballot every game.
Test cricket in England has more noise😮 and that game can be played at walking pace.
#thepeopleschannel a video on the Bangladesh premier league and the rise of Bashundhara kings would be good
A team who went into the top flight after promotion and won the last Six league titles now!
Are they the next Newcastle? Are they a team to keep a eye on next few years? Thanks Alfie 😊
Cost of tickets , a lot of fans who used to go to games and create atmosphere are now priced out
Tottenham atmosphere is so loud on tv you can hear it non stop home or away