@@endermanwithalowercasee it was sadly very amateurish, felt phoned in and rushed and the plot paper thin. Its the kind of movie you watch on a Saturday afternoon at home not on the big screen.
Bro, the real story is about Helm, and in this they subvert him for the made up Hera. Fundamentally the lore is already broken, what do you mean its 95% accurate to the lore?!?!?!
@@SullyRose15 Helm does indeed have a daughter, yes not named. Only thing changed is that she kills Wulf. This is the most lore accurate of any adaptation. Helps the lore is like 2 pages. Nobody's story was subverted. Nothing about helm was suppressed to make way for Hera. There simply doesn't exist a lot of lore about any of the characters in the first place.
I wouldn't mind an anthology type series set in the Peter Jackson universe and not the Amazon one. Hopefully this is the first of many animated projects telling stories in this world.
I think it's important to remember that the story is being told by Eowyn, and that oral traditions of history (As well as our own written history) are not always accurate. Eowyn is herself a shield maiden and she is telling a mythologized tale of her people as it was experienced by a shield maiden she admires. It is one of the stories that inspires Eowyn's courage to be the warrior that can defeat the Nazgul Witch King
Not really, cause it did not happen. You can't change what was already written, you can add to it but Hera was not named, she had no role in this war and Eowyn's was inspired by other things that did happen.
I really do not understand why people are claiming the entire war was Héra's fault when it was Helm who officially refused Fréca's marriage offer. The most we get out of Héra on the subject is her private conversation with Wulf where she says it is not that she doesn't want to marry *him*, but that she doesn't want to marry *anyone* (and said very demurely, I might add, with no rant about men or patriarchy anywhere in this film). It was very clear by her reaction that Helm had not even told her about the Gondorian offer yet. She never had a chance to refuse. And Helm refused for solid reasons- Fréca wanted the throne. Marrying Héra off to Wulf would not have actually satisfied him. And when Wulf offers marriage again, at Isengard, SHE IS WILLING TO DO IT provided he agrees to call off the attack. That is a 100% reasonable requirement tactically, culturally, and real-world historically. Noble women in Anglo Saxon society were referred to as "peaceweavers" for this exact reason- they would be wed to an enemy lord or his son to end the conflict, and then sons would be fostered at each court to further continue the bond and act as insurance. Héra in that scene IS performing her culturally correct, gendered duty against her own desires. Again, it is the man who refuses - Wulf gets pissy because she isn't marrying him for him and would instead be marrying him as a bargain. Wulf made it very clear he had no intention of respecting tradition and would be a terrible king, and that Héra wedding him would achieve nothing. So of course she didn't do it. Fucking hell, people. And at the end of it all, she is no longer the king's daughter but the king's cousin. Her value has dropped, and there wouldn't be much point pursuing that angle when Rohan has a young, unwed king. I could also see Frealaf granting her wish to never marry as a boon for her service in the war. I kind of wish that had been shown.
You’re absolutely correct. Her refusal of marriage was entirely moot as the decision and the killing blow that started the war were made by her father. I think her fate becomes that of a messanger for Gandalf in the long term. Were this fate not offered in the film she would likely become a lady in Frealaf’s court, but her lineage would have been a possible cause for strife with suitor lords trying to win her hand as a means to the thrown which is what we had in the beginning. Becoming a messenger is not the out I wanted to see for her in dealing with this potential problem but it’s the one we have.
I'd also like to point out that Fréca, despite his arrogance, actually did have a solid point with his marriage offer beyond just wanting the throne. At this time, a number of his subjects (officially or not) are Dunlendings, and Dunlendings have a history with both Gondor and Rohan that isn't pretty. I also would find it easy to say they were wronged more often than not, and a marriage between his son and Héra could have been used diplomatically on that front. His death at Helm's hands torpedoed any chance at a lasting peace between Rohan and the Dunlendings, so not only did Helm spark a war, but he also created conflict for hundreds of years after the fact.
I’m going to cry now every time in Two Towers when the boy says his name is “Haleth, son of Hama.” 😭😭😭 The movie did a GREAT job with the emotional beats
My girlfriend pointed it out to me but the flashback was so important because it shows wulf lose his temper and stop sparing and actually try and hurt hera, and hera was able to still beat him without trying to hurt him I think that added context to wulf. He didn't lose to the son of helm but the daughter adding to the scorn he got for being a dunlending
3:24 It's four Mumakil. The one chasing Héra into the woods, who's getting eaten by the "Watcher in The Water" One is batteled (and defeated) by Helm and his army. There is an overhead shot where you can see two more going towards Edoras. One of them is shot by Héra. One gets it's brain Hit to pieces by Halef.
I'm a long time Tolkien nerd, and a long time wargamer. For me, part of what makes an adaptation worthwhile is if it "feels" like Middle Earth as I understand it, and if it makes me want to paint miniatures and play games in that setting. War of the Rohirrim did both of those things for me. It "feels" right, and inspired me to paint hundreds of tiny Rohirrim and Dunlendings to play games with. I'd love to see more films done this way!
Maybe Hera is wild because her father is Helm, It's like having superman for a dad. you'd want to live up to the legend, step out of his shadow and prove yourself sort of thing.
I know the scene of Hera saying she is the bride of death was kind of cheesy, but my teen daughter was smiling just as big as I was during Helms last stand. The movie was good and was enjoyable.
About the Mumakil - they are actually possible according to the book (although not directly mentioned there). Wulf had allied with the enemies of Gondor who landed in the mouths of Isen and Lefnui (that's said in the House of Eorl chapter), and those enemies were fleets of corsairs from Umbar and Harad (that's said in the chapter about Stewards). So if we assume that Haradrim were able to transport their Mumakil by ship (as Ancient Greeks and Carthaginians definitely were), then Mumakil in Wulf's army are justified. The problem in the movie were not Mumakil themselves, but that they appeared out of nowhere, without any story of Wulf creating an alliance with the Corsairs and gathering his forces (and that would be an interesting story by itself). And the overall composition of Wulf's army that consists only of Dunlendings and Mumakil is very strange - it should consist at least from Wulf's own men (Rohirrim from the West Marches), Dunlendings, Corsairs, Haradrim and cavalry and some Mumakil.
I agree. It was jarring to see the mumakill at first, but after thinking about it for a while I concluded it could possibly make sense, especially after it was stated Wulf was working with mercenaries.
@abrahamwest2005 Yeah, I don't think they came by ship either, I thought it was ridiculous when he said that lol. The movie doesn't say how they got there, I would think it'd be by long-distance travel. Personally, I would have used a different beast instead of using the mumakil to try to score member berry points. I could see why Wulf would want mumakil though, there's not much out there that could hope to stand against an army of rohirim.
@@abrahamwest2005 Why? The great fleets from Harad aiding Wulf were directly mentioned by Tolkien himself. The transportation of war elephants by sea was definitely possible in Antiquity. Carthaginians transported their war elephants to Spain by ship, for example, and Romans used war elephants in Britain according to some sources. There even was a specific type of ships used to transport elephants.
Found myself rooting for Helm's family throughout the movie. Each member of the family brings a cool unique thing to the film. I couldn't agree more on your take with the girl boss thing. I did not really see it in this film either. I think some reviewers were expecting this to be far worse than it was.
I think there was nothing added or changed in this movie that was any more egregious than the Jackson trilogy. If you can reconcile that an Uruk Hai with 0 lines in the book can kill a member of the fellowship singlehandedly but can't reconcile a character with 1 line in a 3 page story can kill a character with 3 lines, why? If you can accept Aragon taking Theoden's lines or Eomer taking all of Erkenbrand's moments, but you can't handle a woman taking one moment from a character who comes off as heroic, why? Is it really that you're defending the lore?
@@S4ltyTar0 exactly this, shame to see so many supposed "honest" critics calling this film an abomination of Tolkien, yet it's the most lore accurate adaptation of Tolkien we've ever had.
Really? Come up with a better defense then the fan base is sexist argument, just proves you can't defend the film on its own merit. Changes work, when the story is written well, that's why I don't hear much complaints about PJ films or even about the Shadow of Mordor games that follow the lore even less then this movie did unless its some absolute purist. face it, defending a poorly written movie says a lot about you and your understanding of the Lore. At least I can accept that it wasn't a bad movie but it wasn't a good one......and they didn't actually tell Helm's story here, but Haleth's from the Silmarrion. It was surprisingly, an okay movie. It does have a lot of flaws with the overall story and drags on too long but wasn't hard to watch. Just accept that most people(which is clear considering how much this movie is bombing) don't care that much about bland one dimensional character who never once screws up or turned out to ever be wrong. Even the LOR characters were shown to all have some sort of growth from the beginning of the movies and books to the end, even if they were small growths Helm actually had depth showing him as both a king and a loving father, her brothers had very distinct personalities.....the only change the no name daughter made was going from someone doing all she could to serve her country and then quickly decided to abandoning her country, but at least she wasn't a mary sue, that was more of the old shield maiden who for no reason was issuing commands when there was two Lords there, but they had to show all the remaining men as wishy washy so the women would be propped up(bad writing) A major problem with changing the Lore of having her kill Wulf and then saying that there isn't any songs with her....is saying that Rohan is so sexist they would erase her accomplishments and give them to some one else, that is inexcusable attack on the Lore and doesn't even work when there's not a nation or culture on this earth that has done something like that to one their heroes. What next, that Rohan's songs books say Eomer kill the Nazgul instead of Eowyn.
I agree, there could have been more context for Hera, especially her past friendship with Wulf. Just when I was thinking that we should get a flashback or something to show us their friendship, we got one, but it didn't really reveal much. But that's about all the criticism I have, the movie was quite good. I hope we see more films like this (fingers crossed for an eventual FA series!).
Speaking as someone who is not an anime fan and went in with low expectations, I liked it a lot. I didn’t care about Helm’s daughter being the protagonist as long as the main story from the appendices remaining intact and it certainly was. Every member of the House of Eorl got moments to shine, Helm, Haleth, Hama, Hera, and Frealaf. I didn’t know what to expect from Hera as a protagonist but I enjoyed her overall. Most of her victories were won by using her wit and cleverness as opposed to being an overpowered character The whole Suthburg/Hornburg thing not being present was annoying but not a deal breaker. I would like it if we got future third age events like the Angmar War or Gondorian Kinstrife were brought to life in animation like this
It by definition did NOT keep the story intact if it focused on Helm’s daughter (who appears in a single paragraph) rather than Helm and his sons (who are the protagonists of the story). Having certain events happen doesn’t keep a story intact. It matters who does them, and Hera was given some big moments that belonged to other characters.
I think she's wild because her mother died the day she was born, and she's raised by Helm and her two big brothers. Not too many ladies wandering around. I was prepared to dislike her if she was the best at everything, but she sure gets beaten up and rescued a lot 😅😅
Exactly! She's not "girlboss" at all. If anything I'd say her shield maiden assistant was actually the girl boss lol, she never lost a fight even when it didn't make sense. I actually liked Hera.
About she being a girl boss all powerful, I did like the fact that they show how she wasn't that good when she faced an actual lord of Rohan, veteran and traitor and he owned her easily. She won her final battle cus they also showed that Wulf wasn't a strong warrior and implied she had always been better than him.
She also won in the end by A) having Wulf's sword get stuck in her shield, which actually is something that happened a fair bit in real life, and B) with an assist afterwards. The claim she's a Mary Sue makes no sense.
I find this refreshing since there are so many videos shit talking the movie. I man, sure it's not perfect, but it's fine. I totally do not understand the "girlboss" talk around Héra though. I went into the movie with a woman friend and prepared a discussion with her about the girlboss-thing in movies only to find out that there is no basis to it (also, I find the whole girlboss-accusation of female characters completely stupid, but that's another debate). p.s.: Why does Héra need a reason to be wild? Some kids are wild, some are quiet, and none needs a reason to be one or the other.
I try not to get blinded by nostalgia. But I hate how much lack of war there was in a movie called war of the rohirrim. I was expecting a bigger battle scene.
That's a weird complaint to me. Wars do not consist of major battles only. Skirmishes, sieges and so on are also parts of wars and there were a lot of those in the movie.
I wasn't expecting more battle scenes, but I do think the Rohirrim army looked a little bit sloppy. I found myself wondering "where the heck is the rest of the army?! why is no one protecting the king?! where is the rest of the council?!" several times 😅 Perhaps the direction could have been better in that regard.
@@FelarofTheMearh That's true. It is also a bit weird that they added so few named characters. I think that for example the lord of Westfold (and thus the ruler of Hornburg) deserves to be mentioned by name.
For sure, and being that it is anime and they could draw in as many characters as they wanted to, the battle scenes seemed very sparsely populated, like a few hundred people
Well said and I agree totally with you on your points! I went to go see this with a friend of mine and he enjoyed it, and I'm going with my brother to see it again tonight!
Frealaf is done dirty. He was never banished. He killed Wulf. He was savior of Rohan. He was most worthy to establish the new line of Kings. Most of his feats were given to Hera, who could do no wrong in this movie. She has no arc. She starts as a free willed woman who don’t need no man and ends as a free willed woman who don’t need no man. Her and Olwyn are the epitome of idealized post modern feminist. Phoebe Gittens and Phillepa Boyens self inserts into a Tolkien adaptation IMO. At least the rumor of Amazonian tribe of women did not occur.
Yeah because of this, I won't be spending my money watching this movie. Sorry, if you want a strong female character, write your own story and stop hijacking someone else's story arc to do so.
Personally, I had no issue with the "I don't want to marry" bit. Considering that the line of Helm does end, it is clear that even in the Tolkien timeline that she remained unmarried (assuming she even survived the events)
I respectfully disagree. Freáláf is a wise and loyal character in the film, worthy of being king. He even has quite a bit of involvement in the first part of the film, advising his uncle and helping to rescue Héra from Isengard. He is then temporarily removed from the plot and, like the lore, remains isolated in Dunharrow during the Long Winter (so it was difficult to make him the main protagonist). And despite not being the one to kill Wulf, they win the final battle thanks to him. You can argue and disagree with the details and dramatic licenses that the film takes but in general it is quite faithful to what was written, it changes almost nothing
@@lnwolf7563yes, perhaps he should had be the one who killed Wulf, but the final battle is still won thanks to him. All the events remain almost in the same way as in the book
Idk I had fun with the movie why can’t people just have fun and it was beautifully animated I know most people I work with will just regurgitate the negative talking points and then when u say just have fun they get offended it’s just a shame
I might have to watch it then. The reviews I saw said it sucked and so did my friends. Came off as a massive waste of time. Maybe I’ll see it, but I’m probably far more critical than the lot of you that liked it, but if it’s good and the watcher/mumakil are the only weird parts then I think it can be a good movie
@@roguewasbanned4746 There's a reason the Mumakil are there (they say Wulf traveled and hired mercenaries in the years leading up to the events) and while the Watcher is certainly an odd choice, it's implied this is not the same creature as the one over at Moria.
It honestly gave me hope we might see other side stories like Hurin's or more obscure lore being developed like the history of Dol Amroth or the Numenorian civil wars etc. Through these animated adaptations. Whoever says this is worse than ROP is blind, it's far more Tolkien coded than that dumpster fire and at least its watchable. I agree Hera was underdeveloped compared to how developed the movie pretends she is, I wish Frealaf and her brothers got more development too although as you said they are already more fleshed out than they were in the books. I found the whole shield maidens part out of place, like the way it was used felt like the opposite extreme to the whole rohhirim amazons idea. Also Hera's caretaker was the most obnoxious character for me and the actual girlboss/mary sue (almost) character of the film, she also avoided certain death ridiculously too many times for an old woman, be it ex warrior or not. She really should have been cut back a bit or act as a death that inspires Hera, or the whole shield maidens idea used in a moderate way, like a host of tribeswomen living on the mountains of Hornburg coming to assit like the Elves did in the movie version of the battle, to give the legend a bigger point other than "oh look, Hera picked up a shield and the badass granny is badass". Also...did you notice how stupid the rohhirim were? XD like seriously, I counted over 5 losses that could have being averted if at least a few rohirrim remembered what their job is. Anyway, its a nice step forward and gives hope for Gollum. I won't mind a future where we get ,maybe less high budget but still with a Tolkien soul, one animated and one live action middle earth film covering and developing more obscured parts of the lore throughout the years. And I can see the whole inspiration part you mentioned, I saw a few girls around me at the cinema going googly eyed and cheering with some of Hera's scenes, of course what we all wowed on was the Lee cameo, and I really appreciate they just edited archived recordings of his voice instead of using an AI bot to mimic him.
My oldest daughter turned 14yo this weekend, and we went on a daddy/daughter date to see this. We were both very pleased! She knows the Legendarium as “dad’s storybooks” and she’s a fan of anime. We were entering the theater and she saw a monitor “hey there’s an anime - oh it’s lord of the rings - ‘December 13th’ hey that’s today - OHHH!” XD
The poor/weak story telling points were my complaint. Like the younger brother dying because he insisted on an old horse was so weird. They are the horse lords. If he loved it he wouldn’t have put it in danger like that. But nothing really lore breaking.
Thought it was fantastic, huge fan of Tolkiens work and the Peter Jackson films aswell. I thought this was a beautiful adaptation. Don’t know what the internet’s on about. I’m about as right wing conservative as it gets… still thought it was wonderful. People need to chill and relax… least we get more rings of woke power…
"...these tales are being adapted, and done well." What...? What tales are being adapted? They made up a story about a nameless daughter of Helm Hammerhand, and then made Helm apologize to her. This is not an adaptation. This is self-insert fan fiction written by women who want their fathers to like them.
The movie was pretty good all in all. Your rating seems way to generous though. Also seems strange to say adding isn’t changing something. If you add a variable to a math equation it’s fundamentally changed, or if you add ingredients to a recipe it’s clearly changed. Simply changing something isn’t inherently bad though, which is why I would somewhat agree the movie was decent. Just think saying it’s better than the Hobbit films is off the plot.
I chalk up his initial review being so generous because he has an inherent interest to like Lord of the Rings adaptations unless they do absolutely god awful. Not to mention, he probably wants to like it. Especially if it's a near and dear IP to him, he probably genuinely wants to see the good in the film. Maybe after some time after he reflects and the honeymoon buzz wears off he may change his stance. I wouldn't expect a hard change but probably slightly.
@@mustafakantar3846 I'm really irritated by the "girl boss" label being applied to Hera. She's a badass shield maiden. Why wouldn't you want to watch that?
It's too far from a good adaption. I can see they wanna put every element in LOTR into this new movie but ended up ruin the whole story (what the hell are the orcs doing there? They could have removed them without changing the story)
Me and my friends really liked it. The Watcher is on one hand memberberries, on the other it's very anime and fitting this movie. I would have made Hera and Wolf kill each other for more dramatic/Shakespearian effect, but other than that it's fine. Edit: we just saw it today xd
I just watched the movie, after collecting my thoughts, and looking at other people's thoughts on it here is my opinion on War of the RohirRim I liked it, it is definitely not as good as Jackson Lord of the Rings. However I don't think it is anywhere near as bad as what most of the comment section says it is either. I personally will be recommending it to my friends and family. Look all I'm saying is they did Helm himself infinity better than whoever that Nazgul pretender was supposed to be in Shadow of War. Of course if you disagree with me that's completely fine, it's always healthy to form your own opinion.
The film was just OK. The first half was decent, but I think it really fell apart at Helms Deep. Wasn't horrible like a lot of people on TH-cam say, but it wasn't great either. Enjoyable but just average.
That's exactly my opinion too. It wasn't great, but it wasn't trash like a lot of internet people are saying. I give it a 5/10 - average. Many people are just parroting ragebait youtuber opinions without taking the time to watch the movie themselves.
Helm dying for no reason killed it for me... just open the door instead of giving the speech. Or have Hera rush to get soldier/archers and then fight them off... They could've made him actually sacrifice himself out in the snow as opposed to dying in front of his own fortress... fakk me
@@wolfsbane9985unfortunately I think you're right in that people are too easily swayed by those condemning this film because of their socio-political views, and thus deny themselves the chance to make up their own minds. And miss out on a fairly entertaining time at the cinema.
Here's a write-up of some of my thoughts, I left this in response to another commenter on your Facebook page. It sums up my general feelings on the film: [ I thought it was okay. Not bad, pretty good even. It didn't make me mad like Rings of Power and The Hobbit trilogy did. They didn't try to shoehorn a bunch of unnecessary BS into it that shat on existing lore or anything like that, which was good. I think they tread carefully lorewise and did a pretty good job adding detail to that story without fundamentally changing it. I thought it was a bit cheesy at times. I didn't always love the dialogue. For example, Helm Hammerfist said "that's none of your business!" or something like that, some kinda current figures of speech in there that are very non-Tolkien, non fantasy / old English in there. And recycling some famous quotes or scenes from the LOTR series in the film, felt kind of cheap like "hey remember this line/scene you loved from the trilogy?" instead of having it's own really memorable lines or speeches or something. If that makes sense. Art style was interesting. Different of course. I'm not an anime fan, but that's not because of the art style specifically. Looked pretty good. Had some fun fight scenes, and I think the anime art style gave it some license to have those fight scenes be unrealistic and "cartoonish" , like some of Legolas's fight scenes in the LOTR trilogy. If you know what I mean. Some fun, cartoonish fight scenes like you'd see in an anime, and it doesn't have to be realistic because it's animated anyways. Overall though I thought it did a pretty good job of telling it's own story, using the little detailed existing lore we have (Helm Hammerfist killed someone with one punch and got that name, and Helms Deep was named after him after a last stand there, etc), without treading on other parts of the legendarium in an poorly done / disrespectful way like other LOTR spinoffs have. It's worth a watch. Though I don't think it's some amazing classic that I'll be rewatching regularly or anything. Maybe a 6.5 or 7 out of 10 or something? That's just my opinion anyways. Interested to hear what Yoysten thought!]. That was my comment. Now let the records show I am a bigger Tolkien nerd than most casual fans, and have read the main LOTR trilogy, the Hobbit and the Silmarillion multiple times each, as well as Children of Hurin, Fall of Gondolin, and the Unfinished Tales. HOWEVER, I am NOT a loremaster with an encyclopedic knowledge of every sidestory / supplemental lore, so someone like you Yoysten and probably some of the other commenters might have noticed more lore discrepancies than I did. But overall I was happy with how they handled it from a lore PoV, there were just other parts of it that make me say the movie was pretty good, but not great.
14:49 I agree, seeing Helms actions, desperation from 3rd person works really well, especially because he's such a legendary character, larger than life. And experiencing him stalking outside the wall from a 2nd person also ties brilliantly in.
I am so glad that you took the time to judge the film based on its own merit and how it pertains to the material presented to it. So many of the reviews/critiques are from a certain "anti" group of drama-mongers that probably don't even care about the movies beyond what they can use to incite their viewerbase. It's so terrible that a "good" or "adequately entertaining" film isn't enough these days, and that media outlets are driven by click-bait, contrary titles to earn ad revenue. I honestly have lost all hope and respect for the reviewers that I used to follow, choosing instead to go in blindly from now on. I enjoy movies, and I am tired to being made to feel like less than intelligent for it. Is this a perfect film? Of course not. And that's okay. At the end of the day, the essence of what made The Lord of the Rings and Middle-Earth so great is preserved, and respected, and that's all that I could ask for. I fully intent to support this film in every way possible, from the merch, to the soundtrack and even the map of Rohan... because I know that the click-bait critics will be the reason that this film fails at the box office. But I won't have it said, I didn't do my part to try and continue seeing good adaptations of Tolkien's world brought to the big screen.
I definitely disagree, it simply isn’t upto the standards that an adaptation of Tolkien’s work should be. If you want “good enough” then don’t use the IP of a series which is of much higher quality than you can achieve.
This is my biggest concern with the “anti-woke” channels. In the past they have done a good job calling out the corruption in the entertainment industry. But now Hollywood is backing away from their arrogant mindset a little bit but these anti woke channels are trying to nitpick for quick clicks.
@@conormurphy4328 If you're interested in gatekeeping that hard, you're going to have to deal with the people who think Jackson's films never should have come out.
Not sure which "anti group" reviewers you were referring to but the ones I listen to give props to modern projects that have good writing as opposed to what I would call bad writing in War of the Rohirrim. It's fun to just call them anti woke but I think we should all have higher standards and not pay to see mediocre movies or stream a sub-par series. It's true that we all have a different taste and standards but this movie flopped not because of reviewers, but because the fan base largely has higher standards for Tolkien content
Watched it last Saturday. My husband and I enjoyed it a lot. I really loved how the story of Helm Hammerhand told. I don't know why but hearing the LOTR theme was nostalgic. The posthumous voicing of Saruman, that touched me for some reasons. Totally an enjoying movie.
Rings of power is pure trash. This i actually liked ..Even if she is the main character its not even close to the level of rings of power girl power trash.
This perfectly encapsulates how I feel, having just walked out of the movie theater. I don't know as much more as others, but it's comforting to see how closely it followed! All of the flaws you mentioned I noticed too, but I also enjoyed the movie as a whole. And yes, Helm Hammerhand was AWESOME!!
I absolutely agree with your review, love the movie, went in there with little trepidation but enjoyed it from beginning to the end. Going tomorrow to watch it again
I am afraid that your review brushes through the main betrayal of Tolkien lore. Frealaf gets completely screwed, with all his heroic moments taken by Hera.. A pity, as Heras character could have been well developed without taking over his part.
Going to see this tomorrow~ i am excited for it, and i am glad that everything I've said about Hera sounds accurate, i like that she's a protagonist.. I am glad that it's an anime honestly, i love anime (fate/stay night and the like) i prefer it a lot of the time.. because with animation the people making things pour their creativity into everything in a way that i rarely see in live action.. I'm looking forward to the future again as far as Tolkien content, and that hasn't been the case for a very long time Thank you for giving a constructive review
The animation was a bit clunky when they walked. I'm not sure if that was the computer coding or what. It didn't take anything away from the story but I know I'm an odd duck and other people may be bothered by it.
Regarding Helm’s “arrogance”. Freca is a lord of Rohan claiming descent from Frèawine, with “much dunlendish blood”, who only came to council when it suits him. Helm has mistrusted him for a while. His first action at this council was to ask for Helms daughters had in marriage. Helm’s response is to call him fat. He then rages and reviles the KING! Did anyone really think he would escape punishment? He’s lucky he wasn’t branded a traitor right then and there, hauled out and executed.
While I agree that Fréca was absolutely asking for it, he actually did make two good points. The first was that it is in his people's interest who Helm's daughter marries, since a number of Fréca's subjects were Dunlendings at this point (officially or not), and Dunlendings have a bad history with Gondor. The second point is that a marriage between their kids actually could be used to strengthen Rohan, since politically it could be used to quell tensions with the tribes of Dunland. With Fréca's death, those subjects lost a Lord who they had a blood tie with, and by banishing his son, Helm ensured they would be given a Lord that they almost certainly would have no relation to, which is almost guaranteed to worsen relations in an already bad history between Rohan and the Dunlendings. This is before we look at the war and centuries of conflict afterwards. Obviously Fréca shouldn't have gotten what he wanted, he's not the king, he shouldn't be able to choose who Héra marries, and he could do far, far better in terms of delivering his people's concerns, I'm just pointing out that Helm made his own disastrous decisions as well.
I did really enjoy it, and I absolutely think it was worth seeing. Going to the issue of the "girl-boss" especially in comparison with Helm, we expect Helm to be amazing because he is an older and hardened warrior with *years* of experience. You mention a few times, wishing we could have seen more background for why she is the way she is, I would have also liked a couple scenes establishing *how*. I also am a bit upset that you don't reference the change to the lore with Hama's death... which functionally was so useless in the structure of the story and undercut how absolutely devastating the Long Winter was for both sides of the war. It was frustrating to have a character whose death embodied the threat of starvation and the peril of winter changed to such an easily preventable and futile ending.
This makes me want an Eldacar/Kinstrife adaptation all the more. Although maybe without Mumakil, Watchers, Eagles, and whatnot lol. Something like a tale from the Silmarillion would definitely fit the artform more.
I wish they incorporated the real actress for Éowyn, Miranda Otto and then open a book that has a similar art style using the alchemical medieval methods, zoom into it eventually to where the book art comes alive and then we enter into the movie... then we coild get more Faramir too who unified and revived Ithilien and which allowed a host of elves to migrate there and live there for a long time. ❤
The movie is terribly done, a lot of non sense, bad decisions and reall bad execution of ideas Worst movie I saw this year on cinema this movie was REALLY BAD but had potential
16:57 If she were actually FOR Rohan then she would have been raised to know that her duty is to marry for the betterment of the realm. The reason she does not say she is the bride of Rohan is because she rejected her duty.
She didn't, though. Not actually. It was pretty clear Helm had not discussed the Gondorian offer with her at all yet, so she couldn't have rejected it. It was Helm who rejected Fréca's offer, and rightly so- his desire to usurp the throne was obvious. Héra tells Wulf that she doesn't want to marry anyone because she's reassuring him that her objection isn't to him personally and isn't because of his Dunlanding blood. Their dads are already outside throwing down at that point, and no one else was there. That was a personal conversation, not an official, political one. If Helm hadn't one-punch killed Fréca and banished Wulf, perhaps a more official conversation would have been had. But Helm's actions made the war, not Héra's private conversation with an old friend. She is even willing to accept Wulf's offer at Isengard in order to save Rohan. It is Wulf who rejects that option because of his personal feelings. And once he's made it clear her wedding him would not prevent the attack, there is no point to her doing so. A bride as an assurance of peace doesn't work when the husband has no intention of honoring that bargain.
Hey Men of the West, longtime fan, but I think this is my first comment; I really loved my birthday present from Warner, despite having my own criticisms about it, such as the Watcher's appearance, or even the portrayal of Wulf (specifically the fact that we don't get to see him actually win a single fight?), but overall I feel like they truly did the story justice, and even adequately put it into the form of a modern story. Truly a spectacular film, and I feel like your review actually touches on stuff that I didn't even notice myself, such as her donning the dress (specifically what it would have entailed past the aesthetic value).
i am glad to see that there are still people out there who see this movie for how good it really is. It's been very discouraging seeing this movie with literally 1 star on amazon prime.
@liamwilson7549 my area was extremely weird with the movie. One theater sold out the opening day as soon as the tickets became available, but the theater I'd gone to was empty aside from a couple on the far side of the room. It felt like we were allowed to watch it exclusively but it still felt wrong
@@AttilaGaming it was the same for me. I honestly think the movie theater industry is dying. Deadpool was also the same when i went to see it and that had way more attendance globally
No this movie made Helm seem weak. So so very weak. His orginally story was so badass dying like an ice statue. Now he passes his mentle to some non-named character Tolkien would never have accepted. Made her brothers pathetic. And no way in hell could she kill a mumakill, just plain no way. Not even the eagles would respond to a numenorian high man, let alone a nobody no named middlemen women, thats a joke. Making Wolf a simp for this nobody also was just disgusting. Rem Eoewyn was a sheild maiden in disguse, not on merit, there were no sheild maidens before her, so that is just a lie.😅 😅😂 Had so much respect for your channel until this review. 😢
I think the Shield maiden were honnord by what they did.. it was mentioned in the movie.. they where the only left to fight White the man where killed.. so not a faction but a courage acceptation what they did..
Why do people not want to give this movie a chance. Likely for one simple reason. They have given out so many chances before with project, such as rings of power, and got burned. They are simply done with the girlboss can do everything. And Hera seems to be just a continuing of this example. In any other time, she might have been overlooked, but right now she is under extra examination with people not willing to give her a chance. Gone are the days of a easier crowd liking your character, Hollywood has lost the good will of the public, and needs to earn it back. That is why people are not willing to give her a chance. Because there are to many attempts already out there, that people are unwilling to give anymore freedom.
"Girlboss can do everything" ??? She certainly isn't a warrior princess, like some claim she is, she never leads Rohans army into battle, she even got bested in combat by the traitor and is saved by a horse. She was forced to stay behind whilst her brothers got to March off to battle. (Even Eowyn, is more of a girlboss in this regard, she sneaks into her father's army and kills the witchking) She needs Frealaf and his army to come to Helms Deep to save them. The idea that she's bailed out at the end by a man completely contradicts the argument that she can do everything. And then because of feudalism she loses her position in Rohan, as expected. There are plenty of L's for Hera in the film.
You’re right about that. No more benefit of the doubt. There were four named male heroes in her family alone who were stepped over to get to a female, and we have her slaying supposedly powerful men and disparaging marriage and her arc is learning to trust in herself, which is all the red flags I can stand.
@@TealWolf26 I can agree, at any other time, she would be fine. Similar issue actually if you were to look at Ahsoka from starwars. If she came into being now, she would be a hard sell. But back when she came into being, it worked, because they also had time to work with her.
@@knightoffailure1869 Similar. I wanted to like this story, but the moment we switched form Helm in the trailer to hera, it gave me pause it showed so much of what other shows and movies have done, and failed to do well.
Just saw the film today and ill say this...I HATE "Woke" films and this was NOT one of them. Hera was actually surprisingly better than I thought she would be and I would not call her a "girl boss" lol. She is not OP and gets roughed up quite a lot. She also does not overstep her father or brothers. Helm is a major character of the film and arguably the best character. His story is told and it was great. It's okay to not like the film. Everyone has different tastes but I liked it. It has issues for sure and Men of the West touches on a lot of those that I agree with. I'm glad I saw the film and would see it again for sure.
It’s become a 20-year long tradition for myself and my father to go to the movies, particularly for the Tolkien adaptations, and he absolutely loved this film. I also really enjoyed it in the same way I enjoy canonically dubious games like Shadow of Mordor. Hera is a non-canon character, but she could potentially fit into the unspoken part of the Appendices. After all, the story of the War of the Rohirrim is basically just a summary that only lasts about 4 pages? My only real harsh criticism against the film is that the animation framerate is inconsistent (going from the standard 24fps to the typical 8-12fps framerate you would see in an anime episode) and that the pacing could drone on in certain moments. As far as the “woke” stuff is concerned, I would urge anyone to avoid any clickbait reviews about that. It is not imo. Hera never came across as the stereotypical “girlboss” tropey protagonist and Helm absolutely stole the show when it came down to it.* Ultimately, I hope this is the beginning of more standalone animated films taking place in the legendarium. If we could get a darker and more polished anime adaptation of Tolkien stories such as The Children of Hurin or The Silmarillion as a whole, that would make me so happy! *[Edit] I honestly have no issues with badass female characters in stories, I’m mainly talking about the disingenuous ways in which Hollywood implements those characters.
Thanks for not being an NPC and having your own opinions instead of parroting the opinions of youtubers. I will say I didn't think the movie was amazing, but not for reasons of wokeness or girl bossing. I still enjoyed it though. I give it a 5 or 6/10 - pretty average, but definitely not trash. It could be better, but i appreciate that it was actually very lore accurate, with the exception of giving Hera a name and giving her the Wulf kill.
With all due respect, if you thought the lore of this film was accurate, I question your knowledge of the lore. There was a battle at the Fords of Isen between the Rohirrim and the Dunlendings which caused Helm's forces to retreat Súthburg. Wulf's forces ally with Easterling forces to ambush the Rohirrim force during that battle. Wulf then divides his forces to besiege Súthburg and attack Edoras. Haleth fell at Edoras defending it against Wulf's forces. Hama wasn't killed by Wulf, he was lost when he went out during the Long Winter to find supplies. Helm didn't die from one excursion. He made multiple excursions into the winter. Fréaláf didn't just kill Wulf, he actually led an attack to retake Edoras. The movie literally contradicts what was written by Tolkien. The hero of the War of Rohirrim is Fréaláf Hildeson, not some unnamed daughter.
Yeah but YOU know the lore, right? He already mentioned this is a raw review. He is excited for the movie. You regurgitating the story we have already read (because if we are watching these videos, we’ve almost all certainly read it as well) doesn’t make you a Tolkien scholar, it just makes you a gatekeeper. We also know that Christopher Tolkien didn’t like PJs adaptations, so he wouldn’t like any adaptation. That said, this feels like it belongs in PJs LOTR universe, warts and all.
@@MrPiestro If you're not going to follow the basic story, then why call it an adaptation? I didn't regurgitate the basic story, I just laid out the facts that contradict the movie. I never made claim of being a Tolkien scholar. But, I can read his works and make a basic assessment. And this film gives barely lip service to the what was actually written in the books.
@ Barely giving lip service is a wild inaccuracy. The same could be said for PJs adaptations (which I love, yet know they deviate wildly in parts). No Glorfindel, elves at Helms Deep, the list goes on. Yet PJs adaptations do what they intended to do, stick with the spirit and heart of what Tolkien wrote, unlike Rings of Power.
The time change is probably due to the changes in the timeline for the movies, since rather than the 17 years in the books, Gandalf is only gone for a few months in The Fellowship of the Ring
Definitely should have been the Bride of Rohan over Death. Her whole ploy was to give her people time to escape, LIFE. Also, the wedding dress wasn't as visually striking as it could have been when she's already been wearing white the whole movie. Just my take.
Saw it today and really enjoyed it! I'm not necessarily a huge anime fan, but I thought it was the perfect vehicle for this story. They captured the lore, while the additions were plausible and enjoyable. Yes, I vote for more!
@knarftahw and, this, people, is what we call...indoctrination. Anything even remotely different is seen as an attack on his soul, and must be seen as the black hand of the demon itself.
@@dendrien Talking about being fed trash, how about all the anti woke movie/games you've obviously been consuming? These big ragebait channels wouldn't recognise art if it smacked them in the face
I don't understand how you can be about the Lore and love this. That's a fairly big change to have her girl boss and kill the villain. The new king should be the one who does that. Enough of this crap
PJ enhances Arwens role and has her outrun the Nazgûl and save Frodo when in the books it was Glorfindel, and nobody bats an eye. But because we have the internet and a culture war I guess right now, it matters. I can tell you about at least a hundred other things PJ changed about the Tolkien lore that nobody cares about except only the deep deep lore nerds.
Thank you for calling out the insincerity of the girl boss claims. Helm was super human... There are so many male characters in Tolkien's books and everywhere in culture. My little girl is constantly asking for movies with girls, she wants to see herself in these stories. As a female fan of Tolkien I am so excited and glad for this story to share with my daughter.
The issue you're experiencing is real but the solution is not to CHANGE established stories but to write new ones. Creativity is lacking in today's writing staffs, they can't seem to come up with anything original so they manipulate years old stories to fit whatever role their brain wasn't able to come up with. This doesn't work and it's why Amazon's ROP, female ghost busters or Ocean's eight are all unsuccessful, as well as War of the rohirrim that was dropped from theaters after just 2 weeks. Weak writing.
@floppypancakes9509 perhaps how I worded my post was confusing to you, but I am afraid I don't understand what you mean by your comment. I meant I was excited to have a strong female character's story to share with my daughter.
Reviewing this while everything is fresh in my mind: I factually loved this movie so much, i just got home from seeing it (my sister went with me to see it as a Christmas present to me, she got us tickets T^T i feel spoiled lol) I want to go see this again, its so good. I loved the way they depicted Helm Hammerhand, he feels like the main character in every scene he's in, he dominates every scene he's in, he does everything that he does in his story, the only real change being that you are seeing him from Hera's perspective.. So, Hera... I love her, so much She's everything that Eowyn wanted to model herself after in my view, she's fierce and strong and loving and devoted to her family, protective of her home and her people, but she does show vulnerability and emotional depth, she loves her family so much and i love that what she really consistently wants is to protect them. She is so thankfully /not/ a "girlboss" character, that being in my view.. a female (in name only) who comes in and overpowers and proves to be smarter than all of the men in her life, men who are frequently depicted as being unintelligent to the point of self-destructive while essentially dismissing her for her gender only to be proven wrong, that doesn't happen here, the only thing in the movie that comes anywhere close is Helm refusing to let her fight /because he wants to protect her/ which is proven to be justified considering the direction that the movie takes.. Hera is not overpowered, in actuality most every fight she gets into she wins because she isn't alone, her family protects her quite a great deal which I love Mild spoler with this part: Even her "fighting in a dress" has an explanation that i kind of loved.. which is... she was deliberately doing something that she knew would anger Wulf so that he would fixate on her while her people escaped the siege they are under, she was acting as a diversion hoping to keep him distracted until help arrived.. XD i love that she literally did it to tick him off... Which does not at all go well for her, because she is badly outmatched in this exchange, she isn't an invincible heroine by any stretch of the imagination, she's a smart one, who does something to enable victory ahead of time and has a lot of outside help during Unlike her father who is a wrecking ball who terrorizes /armies/ unarmed, by himself, without a weapon. He's /so cool/ ❤❤ ❤ T^T i loved him so much. His sons as well, so naturally this movie made me hurt, but Hama especially is so sweet with his music playing.. End spoilers I will say, the animation is a little rough near the beginning, it sort of seemed like the characters were sort of "floating" through their environment, and sometimes the animation felt a little.. odd.. But that was mostly near the beginning during the setup of the story, it smooths out as the plot gets to the more action heavy scenes, or i just got used to it? Either way, it was a little odd, I got over it but i think it could have been done better if the characters had been more.. grounded (is that the word?) In their environment, like a lot of the other anime I've watched.. For the music... The music was /so good/ As soon as that Rohan theme played i felt like i was watching the lord of the rings films again, i loved that so much. And the end credits theme, The Rider, will never not make me feel /happy/ inside, i love that song so much, its so good, especially because they had it accompany the artwork like they did with lotr and the hobbit. Overall.. this film was amazing to me, i want to see it again, it deserves so much better snd so much more praise than it has gotten, best Christmas gift ever was seeing this with my sister, who doesn't like anime, but still liked this movie~
I don't think I liked it as much as you did, there were quirks like turning shieldmaidens into some kind of a faction rather than a cultural practice that Rohirrim embrace in general in moments of crisis (or some more priviledged Rohirrim woman can do), which you mentioned, that made my eyebrow rise, but I found the technical aspects of the animation the most underdeveloped. I wonder if at some point this might have been considered for streaming release instead of a cinematic one and hence why WB didn't really put as much resources as was needed into it. However I did enjoy it overall, probably more than Hobbit movies and definitely more than that RoP travesty of a pseudoadaptation. Not sure if it's a movie I will be particularly into rewatching, but I might go back to some scenes from time to time and I would like to take a closer look into some background details they came up with such as heraldry of different regions and subfactions.
I didn't see the shieldmaidens being a faction, there's only one of them in the movie because they have no sort of order, they're just a group of people who did the same thing, and that shieldmaiden is a handmaid of the princess, which makes sense, that a warrior king would have a fighter also be his daughter's handmaid.
I found the movie very beautiful. It undoubtedly conveys the Tolkienesque and fantasy atmosphere, unlike Rings of Power, where the dialogues seem taken from ordinary conversations of our times. In The War of the Rohirrim, everything is faithful to the fantasy atmosphere. I see nothing wrong with the fact that Hera is an invented character.
In Tolkien's writings, Helm Hammerhand does have a daughter which is unnamed. The only mention of her is when Freca requests that she be married to his son Wulf as a marriage alliance. Helm of course rejects it and have a fist fight with Freca outside the hall of Meduseld where Freca got killed as a result. After that, she is never mentioned again, making her fate unknown. She is not an invented character, but her name and accomplishments are created for the movie. This animated movie tells the story and accomplishments of Helm's daughter who is given the name of Hera. She is portrayed as an independent minded young woman with the desires to create her own path in life rather than following the traditional path for women as dictated by the patriarchal society of Rohan. The story of her accomplishments has inspired Eowyn to carve out her own path in life.
I would give it a 6/10. Was it bad? No. Great? No (but easily could have been). I think a simple fix would make it great. Save Helm’s death for the end. While Wulf, Hera, and Frealaf are fighting, at the same time Helm is defending the Hornburg as shown. Once *Frealaf* makes the killing blow (he needs a win and Hera already won a duel disarming Wulf) they go to the gate to find Helm frozen in place. This would allow the audience to soak in Helm’s death more and authenticating Frealaf as king rather than Hera just giving up the title cuz she doesn’t want it and be lore accurate.
I do agree that overall it’s solid. I’d probably give it a 7/10. After just having my first view tonight, I don’t like the member berries much. Rings of power has kind of ruined them. The music coming back was a beautiful touch. I would’ve been fine with a line here or there but especially early on I feel like there was several that was a bit much. I felt also at first that if you changed the title and it almost could’ve been any anime ever. I wasn’t over fond of freca. But I do think the movie was quite solid and there’s a LOT of overreaction to this movie. I’m not an anime watcher AT ALL. And I’d still rate it quite highly. I wish they would have done a few less member berries and done a bit more visual showing of connections to the trilogy as opposed to having people repeat or almost act out mannerisms from the trilogy. And then I agree. Wish they would’ve shown and not told us when Hera was getting so good at riding or fighting or anything like that.
I really enjoyed the movie. I think we could nitpick for hours but let’s be realistic, we aren’t going to get a word to screen movie. Peter Jackson made major changes and yet we love the movies. This movie felt like LORT not just an anime that says it’s LORT. I understand some of the frustration, I love Tolkien more than any other author, and LOTR is my favorite series. However; if we have the most unrealistic expectations for every project we can miss good things. I think this movie is good, as a Tolkien purest, I enjoyed it. Is it perfect? Of course not. However, it is good.
Hey Yoystan I have to hard disagree with this idea that because the story focused on Hera that she must be the one to kill Wulf. How would you feel if at the end of ROP Galadirel defeats Sauron instead of Gil Galad and Elendil. Would that not make sense given her placement in the story? Or what if a made up character was a focus on a lake town film and he were the one to kill Smaug and not Bard. I agree people have thrown too much hate to this film and to Hera, but come on man.
Point taken, but did Frealaf killing Wulf impact the world in a larger way like Elendil and Gil-galad or Bard and Smaug compared to Hera killing Wulf? I just don’t believe it would cause much of a difference there.
@@MenoftheWest it is important for the story of the character, despite the fact that there was less written about that character compared to the others listed before. Take for example Beleg. Have him killed by someone else and the history of middle earth does not necessarily change drastically but it does for the character of Turin. And of course Turin is as deep a character as any but the principle still stands. It is not about the impact in history but about the actual character interactions and what they mean for history. If Frealaf were not to have killed Wulf then let’s say that he maintains control over Rohan. That does impact the story long term. But even if that were not the case I would say that an important moment (whether it was more or less important in the annals of history) for a character which is what is what makes them known should be persevered. I’m not even saying that this ruins the film. It’s something I personally don’t like and they should not have done. Just pointing out that to say that it is not a big deal is kind of contradictory with desiring to preserve the lore. Love your content man and glad to see you on fire about Middle Earth after this viewing!
They minimized Frealaf simply to uplift Hera. It's an insult to Tolkien's lore. Frealaf should've had a much larger role but they couldn't have that. They show absolute contempt for Tolkien's actual story. Frealaf deserved better.
While not perfect, this is an AMAZING adaptation. I hope for more like it! Well done to all who worked on it.
very excited to see you enjoyed it, animated Middle Earth is something I want more of and have wanted more of for over 20 years
@@endermanwithalowercasee it was sadly very amateurish, felt phoned in and rushed and the plot paper thin. Its the kind of movie you watch on a Saturday afternoon at home not on the big screen.
Shills of the West, I bid you STAND DOWN. Quit tacking on an extra 50% to anything with LOTR in the title.
Bro, the real story is about Helm, and in this they subvert him for the made up Hera. Fundamentally the lore is already broken, what do you mean its 95% accurate to the lore?!?!?!
@@SullyRose15 Helm does indeed have a daughter, yes not named. Only thing changed is that she kills Wulf. This is the most lore accurate of any adaptation. Helps the lore is like 2 pages. Nobody's story was subverted. Nothing about helm was suppressed to make way for Hera. There simply doesn't exist a lot of lore about any of the characters in the first place.
I wouldn't mind an anthology type series set in the Peter Jackson universe and not the Amazon one. Hopefully this is the first of many animated projects telling stories in this world.
Same here! A few stories about what a younger Galadriel was actually like or what Numenor was actually like would be nice.
Absolutely yes to this!!!!!!!
Read the book of Unfinished Tales. It has stories of exactly this
From the way it ended if it is successful I could definitely see more movies coming they left it open to make more.
Better yet, how about an anthology type series set in the J.R.R. Tolkien universe? Crazy suggestion, I know.
I think it's important to remember that the story is being told by Eowyn, and that oral traditions of history (As well as our own written history) are not always accurate.
Eowyn is herself a shield maiden and she is telling a mythologized tale of her people as it was experienced by a shield maiden she admires.
It is one of the stories that inspires Eowyn's courage to be the warrior that can defeat the Nazgul Witch King
Fantastic point! 👍
Not really, cause it did not happen. You can't change what was already written, you can add to it but Hera was not named, she had no role in this war and Eowyn's was inspired by other things that did happen.
I was emotionally engaged by this film, something that ROP has never done. I’d like to see a series of Middle Earth Adventures by this team.
I really do not understand why people are claiming the entire war was Héra's fault when it was Helm who officially refused Fréca's marriage offer. The most we get out of Héra on the subject is her private conversation with Wulf where she says it is not that she doesn't want to marry *him*, but that she doesn't want to marry *anyone* (and said very demurely, I might add, with no rant about men or patriarchy anywhere in this film). It was very clear by her reaction that Helm had not even told her about the Gondorian offer yet. She never had a chance to refuse. And Helm refused for solid reasons- Fréca wanted the throne. Marrying Héra off to Wulf would not have actually satisfied him.
And when Wulf offers marriage again, at Isengard, SHE IS WILLING TO DO IT provided he agrees to call off the attack. That is a 100% reasonable requirement tactically, culturally, and real-world historically. Noble women in Anglo Saxon society were referred to as "peaceweavers" for this exact reason- they would be wed to an enemy lord or his son to end the conflict, and then sons would be fostered at each court to further continue the bond and act as insurance. Héra in that scene IS performing her culturally correct, gendered duty against her own desires. Again, it is the man who refuses - Wulf gets pissy because she isn't marrying him for him and would instead be marrying him as a bargain. Wulf made it very clear he had no intention of respecting tradition and would be a terrible king, and that Héra wedding him would achieve nothing. So of course she didn't do it. Fucking hell, people.
And at the end of it all, she is no longer the king's daughter but the king's cousin. Her value has dropped, and there wouldn't be much point pursuing that angle when Rohan has a young, unwed king. I could also see Frealaf granting her wish to never marry as a boon for her service in the war. I kind of wish that had been shown.
You’re absolutely correct. Her refusal of marriage was entirely moot as the decision and the killing blow that started the war were made by her father.
I think her fate becomes that of a messanger for Gandalf in the long term. Were this fate not offered in the film she would likely become a lady in Frealaf’s court, but her lineage would have been a possible cause for strife with suitor lords trying to win her hand as a means to the thrown which is what we had in the beginning. Becoming a messenger is not the out I wanted to see for her in dealing with this potential problem but it’s the one we have.
I'd also like to point out that Fréca, despite his arrogance, actually did have a solid point with his marriage offer beyond just wanting the throne. At this time, a number of his subjects (officially or not) are Dunlendings, and Dunlendings have a history with both Gondor and Rohan that isn't pretty. I also would find it easy to say they were wronged more often than not, and a marriage between his son and Héra could have been used diplomatically on that front.
His death at Helm's hands torpedoed any chance at a lasting peace between Rohan and the Dunlendings, so not only did Helm spark a war, but he also created conflict for hundreds of years after the fact.
I’m going to cry now every time in Two Towers when the boy says his name is “Haleth, son of Hama.” 😭😭😭 The movie did a GREAT job with the emotional beats
Good comparison, because that Haleth, like this Hera, is completely made up.
My girlfriend pointed it out to me but the flashback was so important because it shows wulf lose his temper and stop sparing and actually try and hurt hera, and hera was able to still beat him without trying to hurt him
I think that added context to wulf.
He didn't lose to the son of helm but the daughter adding to the scorn he got for being a dunlending
3:24 It's four Mumakil. The one chasing Héra into the woods, who's getting eaten by the "Watcher in The Water"
One is batteled (and defeated) by Helm and his army.
There is an overhead shot where you can see two more going towards Edoras.
One of them is shot by Héra.
One gets it's brain Hit to pieces by Halef.
I'm a long time Tolkien nerd, and a long time wargamer. For me, part of what makes an adaptation worthwhile is if it "feels" like Middle Earth as I understand it, and if it makes me want to paint miniatures and play games in that setting.
War of the Rohirrim did both of those things for me. It "feels" right, and inspired me to paint hundreds of tiny Rohirrim and Dunlendings to play games with. I'd love to see more films done this way!
Maybe Hera is wild because her father is Helm, It's like having superman for a dad. you'd want to live up to the legend, step out of his shadow and prove yourself sort of thing.
It's probably because she was raised by a family of warrior men, no mom, and a warrior shieldmaid as a substitute.
@Van-xk7gn very good point, you're probably right about that. Recipe for a tom boy
I know the scene of Hera saying she is the bride of death was kind of cheesy, but my teen daughter was smiling just as big as I was during Helms last stand. The movie was good and was enjoyable.
About the Mumakil - they are actually possible according to the book (although not directly mentioned there).
Wulf had allied with the enemies of Gondor who landed in the mouths of Isen and Lefnui (that's said in the House of Eorl chapter), and those enemies were fleets of corsairs from Umbar and Harad (that's said in the chapter about Stewards). So if we assume that Haradrim were able to transport their Mumakil by ship (as Ancient Greeks and Carthaginians definitely were), then Mumakil in Wulf's army are justified.
The problem in the movie were not Mumakil themselves, but that they appeared out of nowhere, without any story of Wulf creating an alliance with the Corsairs and gathering his forces (and that would be an interesting story by itself). And the overall composition of Wulf's army that consists only of Dunlendings and Mumakil is very strange - it should consist at least from Wulf's own men (Rohirrim from the West Marches), Dunlendings, Corsairs, Haradrim and cavalry and some Mumakil.
I agree. It was jarring to see the mumakill at first, but after thinking about it for a while I concluded it could possibly make sense, especially after it was stated Wulf was working with mercenaries.
There is no way they got there by ship. It was lazy writing
@abrahamwest2005 Yeah, I don't think they came by ship either, I thought it was ridiculous when he said that lol. The movie doesn't say how they got there, I would think it'd be by long-distance travel. Personally, I would have used a different beast instead of using the mumakil to try to score member berry points. I could see why Wulf would want mumakil though, there's not much out there that could hope to stand against an army of rohirim.
@@abrahamwest2005 Why? The great fleets from Harad aiding Wulf were directly mentioned by Tolkien himself. The transportation of war elephants by sea was definitely possible in Antiquity. Carthaginians transported their war elephants to Spain by ship, for example, and Romans used war elephants in Britain according to some sources. There even was a specific type of ships used to transport elephants.
@@АнтонОрлов-я1ъI suppose the question is how heavy are mumakil compared to elephants? Genuine question.
Found myself rooting for Helm's family throughout the movie. Each member of the family brings a cool unique thing to the film. I couldn't agree more on your take with the girl boss thing. I did not really see it in this film either. I think some reviewers were expecting this to be far worse than it was.
Really pleased that you enjoyed the film. I did too. To be able to experience LOTR on the big screens again was amazing
I think there was nothing added or changed in this movie that was any more egregious than the Jackson trilogy. If you can reconcile that an Uruk Hai with 0 lines in the book can kill a member of the fellowship singlehandedly but can't reconcile a character with 1 line in a 3 page story can kill a character with 3 lines, why? If you can accept Aragon taking Theoden's lines or Eomer taking all of Erkenbrand's moments, but you can't handle a woman taking one moment from a character who comes off as heroic, why? Is it really that you're defending the lore?
@@S4ltyTar0 exactly this, shame to see so many supposed "honest" critics calling this film an abomination of Tolkien, yet it's the most lore accurate adaptation of Tolkien we've ever had.
Careful, you have reasonable takes and you’ll get crucified
Really? Come up with a better defense then the fan base is sexist argument, just proves you can't defend the film on its own merit.
Changes work, when the story is written well, that's why I don't hear much complaints about PJ films or even about the Shadow of Mordor games that follow the lore even less then this movie did unless its some absolute purist.
face it, defending a poorly written movie says a lot about you and your understanding of the Lore. At least I can accept that it wasn't a bad movie but it wasn't a good one......and they didn't actually tell Helm's story here, but Haleth's from the Silmarrion.
It was surprisingly, an okay movie. It does have a lot of flaws with the overall story and drags on too long but wasn't hard to watch. Just accept that most people(which is clear considering how much this movie is bombing) don't care that much about bland one dimensional character who never once screws up or turned out to ever be wrong. Even the LOR characters were shown to all have some sort of growth from the beginning of the movies and books to the end, even if they were small growths
Helm actually had depth showing him as both a king and a loving father, her brothers had very distinct personalities.....the only change the no name daughter made was going from someone doing all she could to serve her country and then quickly decided to abandoning her country, but at least she wasn't a mary sue, that was more of the old shield maiden who for no reason was issuing commands when there was two Lords there, but they had to show all the remaining men as wishy washy so the women would be propped up(bad writing)
A major problem with changing the Lore of having her kill Wulf and then saying that there isn't any songs with her....is saying that Rohan is so sexist they would erase her accomplishments and give them to some one else, that is inexcusable attack on the Lore and doesn't even work when there's not a nation or culture on this earth that has done something like that to one their heroes. What next, that Rohan's songs books say Eomer kill the Nazgul instead of Eowyn.
@@mr.s2005 But they didn't claim the fanbase is sexist, you just invented that.
I agree, there could have been more context for Hera, especially her past friendship with Wulf. Just when I was thinking that we should get a flashback or something to show us their friendship, we got one, but it didn't really reveal much. But that's about all the criticism I have, the movie was quite good. I hope we see more films like this (fingers crossed for an eventual FA series!).
I wish general thargg would have gotten a bit more background and his reasons for staying with wulf.
Speaking as someone who is not an anime fan and went in with low expectations, I liked it a lot.
I didn’t care about Helm’s daughter being the protagonist as long as the main story from the appendices remaining intact and it certainly was.
Every member of the House of Eorl got moments to shine, Helm, Haleth, Hama, Hera, and Frealaf.
I didn’t know what to expect from Hera as a protagonist but I enjoyed her overall. Most of her victories were won by using her wit and cleverness as opposed to being an overpowered character
The whole Suthburg/Hornburg thing not being present was annoying but not a deal breaker.
I would like it if we got future third age events like the Angmar War or Gondorian Kinstrife were brought to life in animation like this
It by definition did NOT keep the story intact if it focused on Helm’s daughter (who appears in a single paragraph) rather than Helm and his sons (who are the protagonists of the story). Having certain events happen doesn’t keep a story intact. It matters who does them, and Hera was given some big moments that belonged to other characters.
I think she's wild because her mother died the day she was born, and she's raised by Helm and her two big brothers. Not too many ladies wandering around. I was prepared to dislike her if she was the best at everything, but she sure gets beaten up and rescued a lot 😅😅
Exactly! She's not "girlboss" at all. If anything I'd say her shield maiden assistant was actually the girl boss lol, she never lost a fight even when it didn't make sense. I actually liked Hera.
About she being a girl boss all powerful, I did like the fact that they show how she wasn't that good when she faced an actual lord of Rohan, veteran and traitor and he owned her easily. She won her final battle cus they also showed that Wulf wasn't a strong warrior and implied she had always been better than him.
She also won in the end by A) having Wulf's sword get stuck in her shield, which actually is something that happened a fair bit in real life, and B) with an assist afterwards. The claim she's a Mary Sue makes no sense.
The "bride of death" concept is a reference to the film's anime-esque style. I thought it was a cool touch.
Honestly, its funny that there was less wacky action in a lotr anime than the hobbit trilogy 💀
I find this refreshing since there are so many videos shit talking the movie. I man, sure it's not perfect, but it's fine. I totally do not understand the "girlboss" talk around Héra though. I went into the movie with a woman friend and prepared a discussion with her about the girlboss-thing in movies only to find out that there is no basis to it (also, I find the whole girlboss-accusation of female characters completely stupid, but that's another debate).
p.s.: Why does Héra need a reason to be wild? Some kids are wild, some are quiet, and none needs a reason to be one or the other.
When me and my roomate went... we were the only 2 people in the entire theater....
I try not to get blinded by nostalgia. But I hate how much lack of war there was in a movie called war of the rohirrim. I was expecting a bigger battle scene.
Right! But I guess the siege of the rohirrum isn't as good a title 😅
That's a weird complaint to me. Wars do not consist of major battles only. Skirmishes, sieges and so on are also parts of wars and there were a lot of those in the movie.
I wasn't expecting more battle scenes, but I do think the Rohirrim army looked a little bit sloppy. I found myself wondering "where the heck is the rest of the army?! why is no one protecting the king?! where is the rest of the council?!" several times 😅 Perhaps the direction could have been better in that regard.
@@FelarofTheMearh That's true. It is also a bit weird that they added so few named characters. I think that for example the lord of Westfold (and thus the ruler of Hornburg) deserves to be mentioned by name.
For sure, and being that it is anime and they could draw in as many characters as they wanted to, the battle scenes seemed very sparsely populated, like a few hundred people
I loved this movie
Well said and I agree totally with you on your points! I went to go see this with a friend of mine and he enjoyed it, and I'm going with my brother to see it again tonight!
Frealaf is done dirty. He was never banished. He killed Wulf. He was savior of Rohan. He was most worthy to establish the new line of Kings. Most of his feats were given to Hera, who could do no wrong in this movie. She has no arc. She starts as a free willed woman who don’t need no man and ends as a free willed woman who don’t need no man. Her and Olwyn are the epitome of idealized post modern feminist. Phoebe Gittens and Phillepa Boyens self inserts into a Tolkien adaptation IMO. At least the rumor of Amazonian tribe of women did not occur.
Yeah because of this, I won't be spending my money watching this movie. Sorry, if you want a strong female character, write your own story and stop hijacking someone else's story arc to do so.
Personally, I had no issue with the "I don't want to marry" bit. Considering that the line of Helm does end, it is clear that even in the Tolkien timeline that she remained unmarried (assuming she even survived the events)
I respectfully disagree. Freáláf is a wise and loyal character in the film, worthy of being king. He even has quite a bit of involvement in the first part of the film, advising his uncle and helping to rescue Héra from Isengard. He is then temporarily removed from the plot and, like the lore, remains isolated in Dunharrow during the Long Winter (so it was difficult to make him the main protagonist). And despite not being the one to kill Wulf, they win the final battle thanks to him. You can argue and disagree with the details and dramatic licenses that the film takes but in general it is quite faithful to what was written, it changes almost nothing
@@ivacho9428 He killed Wulf, that is a HUGE change. Giving that action to Hera is not a small detail.
@@lnwolf7563yes, perhaps he should had be the one who killed Wulf, but the final battle is still won thanks to him. All the events remain almost in the same way as in the book
Liked hearing the Howard Shore themes, seeing the orcs looking for rings (voiced by Billy Boyd and Dominic Monaghan). Saruman at the end.
Idk I had fun with the movie why can’t people just have fun and it was beautifully animated I know most people I work with will just regurgitate the negative talking points and then when u say just have fun they get offended it’s just a shame
I might have to watch it then. The reviews I saw said it sucked and so did my friends. Came off as a massive waste of time. Maybe I’ll see it, but I’m probably far more critical than the lot of you that liked it, but if it’s good and the watcher/mumakil are the only weird parts then I think it can be a good movie
@@roguewasbanned4746 There's a reason the Mumakil are there (they say Wulf traveled and hired mercenaries in the years leading up to the events) and while the Watcher is certainly an odd choice, it's implied this is not the same creature as the one over at Moria.
It honestly gave me hope we might see other side stories like Hurin's or more obscure lore being developed like the history of Dol Amroth or the Numenorian civil wars etc. Through these animated adaptations. Whoever says this is worse than ROP is blind, it's far more Tolkien coded than that dumpster fire and at least its watchable.
I agree Hera was underdeveloped compared to how developed the movie pretends she is, I wish Frealaf and her brothers got more development too although as you said they are already more fleshed out than they were in the books. I found the whole shield maidens part out of place, like the way it was used felt like the opposite extreme to the whole rohhirim amazons idea. Also Hera's caretaker was the most obnoxious character for me and the actual girlboss/mary sue (almost) character of the film, she also avoided certain death ridiculously too many times for an old woman, be it ex warrior or not. She really should have been cut back a bit or act as a death that inspires Hera, or the whole shield maidens idea used in a moderate way, like a host of tribeswomen living on the mountains of Hornburg coming to assit like the Elves did in the movie version of the battle, to give the legend a bigger point other than "oh look, Hera picked up a shield and the badass granny is badass". Also...did you notice how stupid the rohhirim were? XD like seriously, I counted over 5 losses that could have being averted if at least a few rohirrim remembered what their job is.
Anyway, its a nice step forward and gives hope for Gollum. I won't mind a future where we get ,maybe less high budget but still with a Tolkien soul, one animated and one live action middle earth film covering and developing more obscured parts of the lore throughout the years. And I can see the whole inspiration part you mentioned, I saw a few girls around me at the cinema going googly eyed and cheering with some of Hera's scenes, of course what we all wowed on was the Lee cameo, and I really appreciate they just edited archived recordings of his voice instead of using an AI bot to mimic him.
My oldest daughter turned 14yo this weekend, and we went on a daddy/daughter date to see this. We were both very pleased! She knows the Legendarium as “dad’s storybooks” and she’s a fan of anime. We were entering the theater and she saw a monitor “hey there’s an anime - oh it’s lord of the rings - ‘December 13th’ hey that’s today - OHHH!” XD
I'm about to re-research the ending credits to this movie, but I just went to go see it, now I want to see it again.
The poor/weak story telling points were my complaint. Like the younger brother dying because he insisted on an old horse was so weird. They are the horse lords. If he loved it he wouldn’t have put it in danger like that. But nothing really lore breaking.
Thought it was fantastic, huge fan of Tolkiens work and the Peter Jackson films aswell. I thought this was a beautiful adaptation. Don’t know what the internet’s on about. I’m about as right wing conservative as it gets… still thought it was wonderful. People need to chill and relax… least we get more rings of woke power…
If the animation was smoother, I'd give it a 9/10. No real complaints otherwise.
Man punches horns off a demonic beast much larger than him: OK.
Womam beats man in a sword fight: no, that's too unrealistic.
"...these tales are being adapted, and done well." What...? What tales are being adapted? They made up a story about a nameless daughter of Helm Hammerhand, and then made Helm apologize to her. This is not an adaptation. This is self-insert fan fiction written by women who want their fathers to like them.
The movie was pretty good all in all. Your rating seems way to generous though. Also seems strange to say adding isn’t changing something. If you add a variable to a math equation it’s fundamentally changed, or if you add ingredients to a recipe it’s clearly changed. Simply changing something isn’t inherently bad though, which is why I would somewhat agree the movie was decent. Just think saying it’s better than the Hobbit films is off the plot.
omg i didnt watch the video - does he really say "adding isnt changing"? Good LORD lol
I chalk up his initial review being so generous because he has an inherent interest to like Lord of the Rings adaptations unless they do absolutely god awful. Not to mention, he probably wants to like it. Especially if it's a near and dear IP to him, he probably genuinely wants to see the good in the film. Maybe after some time after he reflects and the honeymoon buzz wears off he may change his stance. I wouldn't expect a hard change but probably slightly.
This is the only review that felt right. The girl boss narrative some people are pushing makes no sense. I agree with your take 100%
@@mustafakantar3846 I'm really irritated by the "girl boss" label being applied to Hera. She's a badass shield maiden. Why wouldn't you want to watch that?
I got some girl boss vibes from the trailer but I was relieved to see she was not that at all. Actually well written!
It's too far from a good adaption. I can see they wanna put every element in LOTR into this new movie but ended up ruin the whole story (what the hell are the orcs doing there? They could have removed them without changing the story)
Me and my friends really liked it. The Watcher is on one hand memberberries, on the other it's very anime and fitting this movie.
I would have made Hera and Wolf kill each other for more dramatic/Shakespearian effect, but other than that it's fine.
Edit: we just saw it today xd
Same. I was kinda disappointed when she didn't die.
I just watched the movie, after collecting my thoughts, and looking at other people's thoughts on it here is my opinion on War of the RohirRim
I liked it, it is definitely not as good as Jackson Lord of the Rings. However I don't think it is anywhere near as bad as what most of the comment section says it is either. I personally will be recommending it to my friends and family.
Look all I'm saying is they did Helm himself infinity better than whoever that Nazgul pretender was supposed to be in Shadow of War.
Of course if you disagree with me that's completely fine, it's always healthy to form your own opinion.
The film was just OK. The first half was decent, but I think it really fell apart at Helms Deep. Wasn't horrible like a lot of people on TH-cam say, but it wasn't great either. Enjoyable but just average.
That's exactly my opinion too. It wasn't great, but it wasn't trash like a lot of internet people are saying. I give it a 5/10 - average. Many people are just parroting ragebait youtuber opinions without taking the time to watch the movie themselves.
Helm dying for no reason killed it for me... just open the door instead of giving the speech. Or have Hera rush to get soldier/archers and then fight them off... They could've made him actually sacrifice himself out in the snow as opposed to dying in front of his own fortress... fakk me
@@wolfsbane9985unfortunately I think you're right in that people are too easily swayed by those condemning this film because of their socio-political views, and thus deny themselves the chance to make up their own minds. And miss out on a fairly entertaining time at the cinema.
Thank you for this 😊
Thank you for giving your honest thoughts. I liked the film over all. There were some issues I had with the film, but it didn't bother me too much.
Here's a write-up of some of my thoughts, I left this in response to another commenter on your Facebook page. It sums up my general feelings on the film:
[ I thought it was okay. Not bad, pretty good even.
It didn't make me mad like Rings of Power and The Hobbit trilogy did. They didn't try to shoehorn a bunch of unnecessary BS into it that shat on existing lore or anything like that, which was good. I think they tread carefully lorewise and did a pretty good job adding detail to that story without fundamentally changing it.
I thought it was a bit cheesy at times. I didn't always love the dialogue. For example, Helm Hammerfist said "that's none of your business!" or something like that, some kinda current figures of speech in there that are very non-Tolkien, non fantasy / old English in there. And recycling some famous quotes or scenes from the LOTR series in the film, felt kind of cheap like "hey remember this line/scene you loved from the trilogy?" instead of having it's own really memorable lines or speeches or something. If that makes sense.
Art style was interesting. Different of course. I'm not an anime fan, but that's not because of the art style specifically. Looked pretty good. Had some fun fight scenes, and I think the anime art style gave it some license to have those fight scenes be unrealistic and "cartoonish" , like some of Legolas's fight scenes in the LOTR trilogy. If you know what I mean. Some fun, cartoonish fight scenes like you'd see in an anime, and it doesn't have to be realistic because it's animated anyways.
Overall though I thought it did a pretty good job of telling it's own story, using the little detailed existing lore we have (Helm Hammerfist killed someone with one punch and got that name, and Helms Deep was named after him after a last stand there, etc), without treading on other parts of the legendarium in an poorly done / disrespectful way like other LOTR spinoffs have. It's worth a watch. Though I don't think it's some amazing classic that I'll be rewatching regularly or anything. Maybe a 6.5 or 7 out of 10 or something?
That's just my opinion anyways. Interested to hear what Yoysten thought!]. That was my comment.
Now let the records show I am a bigger Tolkien nerd than most casual fans, and have read the main LOTR trilogy, the Hobbit and the Silmarillion multiple times each, as well as Children of Hurin, Fall of Gondolin, and the Unfinished Tales. HOWEVER, I am NOT a loremaster with an encyclopedic knowledge of every sidestory / supplemental lore, so someone like you Yoysten and probably some of the other commenters might have noticed more lore discrepancies than I did. But overall I was happy with how they handled it from a lore PoV, there were just other parts of it that make me say the movie was pretty good, but not great.
I think her saying she was married to death was a call back to when eowyn yells death as they charge into battle
Helm is basically Hrothgar from Beowulf. And Héra is strongly based on Lady Æthelflæd of Merica from English history
14:49 I agree, seeing Helms actions, desperation from 3rd person works really well, especially because he's such a legendary character, larger than life. And experiencing him stalking outside the wall from a 2nd person also ties brilliantly in.
I am so glad that you took the time to judge the film based on its own merit and how it pertains to the material presented to it. So many of the reviews/critiques are from a certain "anti" group of drama-mongers that probably don't even care about the movies beyond what they can use to incite their viewerbase. It's so terrible that a "good" or "adequately entertaining" film isn't enough these days, and that media outlets are driven by click-bait, contrary titles to earn ad revenue. I honestly have lost all hope and respect for the reviewers that I used to follow, choosing instead to go in blindly from now on. I enjoy movies, and I am tired to being made to feel like less than intelligent for it.
Is this a perfect film? Of course not. And that's okay. At the end of the day, the essence of what made The Lord of the Rings and Middle-Earth so great is preserved, and respected, and that's all that I could ask for. I fully intent to support this film in every way possible, from the merch, to the soundtrack and even the map of Rohan... because I know that the click-bait critics will be the reason that this film fails at the box office. But I won't have it said, I didn't do my part to try and continue seeing good adaptations of Tolkien's world brought to the big screen.
I definitely disagree, it simply isn’t upto the standards that an adaptation of Tolkien’s work should be. If you want “good enough” then don’t use the IP of a series which is of much higher quality than you can achieve.
This is my biggest concern with the “anti-woke” channels. In the past they have done a good job calling out the corruption in the entertainment industry. But now Hollywood is backing away from their arrogant mindset a little bit but these anti woke channels are trying to nitpick for quick clicks.
@@conormurphy4328 If you're interested in gatekeeping that hard, you're going to have to deal with the people who think Jackson's films never should have come out.
Not sure which "anti group" reviewers you were referring to but the ones I listen to give props to modern projects that have good writing as opposed to what I would call bad writing in War of the Rohirrim. It's fun to just call them anti woke but I think we should all have higher standards and not pay to see mediocre movies or stream a sub-par series. It's true that we all have a different taste and standards but this movie flopped not because of reviewers, but because the fan base largely has higher standards for Tolkien content
From the art to the story to the music, average across the board
Watched it last Saturday. My husband and I enjoyed it a lot. I really loved how the story of Helm Hammerhand told. I don't know why but hearing the LOTR theme was nostalgic. The posthumous voicing of Saruman, that touched me for some reasons. Totally an enjoying movie.
Rings of power is pure trash. This i actually liked ..Even if she is the main character its not even close to the level of rings of power girl power trash.
This perfectly encapsulates how I feel, having just walked out of the movie theater. I don't know as much more as others, but it's comforting to see how closely it followed! All of the flaws you mentioned I noticed too, but I also enjoyed the movie as a whole. And yes, Helm Hammerhand was AWESOME!!
I absolutely agree with your review, love the movie, went in there with little trepidation but enjoyed it from beginning to the end. Going tomorrow to watch it again
I am afraid that your review brushes through the main betrayal of Tolkien lore. Frealaf gets completely screwed, with all his heroic moments taken by Hera.. A pity, as Heras character could have been well developed without taking over his part.
Going to see this tomorrow~ i am excited for it, and i am glad that everything I've said about Hera sounds accurate, i like that she's a protagonist.. I am glad that it's an anime honestly, i love anime (fate/stay night and the like) i prefer it a lot of the time.. because with animation the people making things pour their creativity into everything in a way that i rarely see in live action..
I'm looking forward to the future again as far as Tolkien content, and that hasn't been the case for a very long time
Thank you for giving a constructive review
I loved how they drew the scenic vistas, but the actual animation when people were talking just seemed off.
The animation was a bit clunky when they walked. I'm not sure if that was the computer coding or what. It didn't take anything away from the story but I know I'm an odd duck and other people may be bothered by it.
That was weird to me too. They had beautiful backgrounds and bizarre motions for the people.
The next adaptation I'd like to see from the Third Age is the Kin Strife.
So glad to hear someone else enjoyed it! :) really happy about that!
Regarding Helm’s “arrogance”. Freca is a lord of Rohan claiming descent from Frèawine, with “much dunlendish blood”, who only came to council when it suits him. Helm has mistrusted him for a while. His first action at this council was to ask for Helms daughters had in marriage. Helm’s response is to call him fat. He then rages and reviles the KING! Did anyone really think he would escape punishment? He’s lucky he wasn’t branded a traitor right then and there, hauled out and executed.
While I agree that Fréca was absolutely asking for it, he actually did make two good points. The first was that it is in his people's interest who Helm's daughter marries, since a number of Fréca's subjects were Dunlendings at this point (officially or not), and Dunlendings have a bad history with Gondor. The second point is that a marriage between their kids actually could be used to strengthen Rohan, since politically it could be used to quell tensions with the tribes of Dunland.
With Fréca's death, those subjects lost a Lord who they had a blood tie with, and by banishing his son, Helm ensured they would be given a Lord that they almost certainly would have no relation to, which is almost guaranteed to worsen relations in an already bad history between Rohan and the Dunlendings. This is before we look at the war and centuries of conflict afterwards.
Obviously Fréca shouldn't have gotten what he wanted, he's not the king, he shouldn't be able to choose who Héra marries, and he could do far, far better in terms of delivering his people's concerns, I'm just pointing out that Helm made his own disastrous decisions as well.
So, your informed intro is all I needed to go watch it. Will watch the rest of your video afterwards ;-)
I did really enjoy it, and I absolutely think it was worth seeing. Going to the issue of the "girl-boss" especially in comparison with Helm, we expect Helm to be amazing because he is an older and hardened warrior with *years* of experience. You mention a few times, wishing we could have seen more background for why she is the way she is, I would have also liked a couple scenes establishing *how*.
I also am a bit upset that you don't reference the change to the lore with Hama's death... which functionally was so useless in the structure of the story and undercut how absolutely devastating the Long Winter was for both sides of the war. It was frustrating to have a character whose death embodied the threat of starvation and the peril of winter changed to such an easily preventable and futile ending.
My immediate reaction to Hama getting murdered like this was 'oh no, just like Fili in 'The Hobbit' which I really hate, too.
This makes me want an Eldacar/Kinstrife adaptation all the more. Although maybe without Mumakil, Watchers, Eagles, and whatnot lol. Something like a tale from the Silmarillion would definitely fit the artform more.
I left my expectations at home. I could have brought them with me. I loved it!!!
Also, the shield is because she’s a Shield maiden…
I actually really loved this movie. I feel that the girl boss take is hyper exaggerated. The lore felt mostly right. I really enjoyed the movie.
I wish they incorporated the real actress for Éowyn, Miranda Otto and then open a book that has a similar art style using the alchemical medieval methods, zoom into it eventually to where the book art comes alive and then we enter into the movie... then we coild get more Faramir too who unified and revived Ithilien and which allowed a host of elves to migrate there and live there for a long time. ❤
The movie is terribly done, a lot of non sense, bad decisions and reall bad execution of ideas
Worst movie I saw this year on cinema this movie was REALLY BAD but had potential
16:57 If she were actually FOR Rohan then she would have been raised to know that her duty is to marry for the betterment of the realm. The reason she does not say she is the bride of Rohan is because she rejected her duty.
She didn't, though. Not actually. It was pretty clear Helm had not discussed the Gondorian offer with her at all yet, so she couldn't have rejected it. It was Helm who rejected Fréca's offer, and rightly so- his desire to usurp the throne was obvious. Héra tells Wulf that she doesn't want to marry anyone because she's reassuring him that her objection isn't to him personally and isn't because of his Dunlanding blood. Their dads are already outside throwing down at that point, and no one else was there. That was a personal conversation, not an official, political one. If Helm hadn't one-punch killed Fréca and banished Wulf, perhaps a more official conversation would have been had. But Helm's actions made the war, not Héra's private conversation with an old friend.
She is even willing to accept Wulf's offer at Isengard in order to save Rohan. It is Wulf who rejects that option because of his personal feelings. And once he's made it clear her wedding him would not prevent the attack, there is no point to her doing so. A bride as an assurance of peace doesn't work when the husband has no intention of honoring that bargain.
Hey Men of the West, longtime fan, but I think this is my first comment; I really loved my birthday present from Warner, despite having my own criticisms about it, such as the Watcher's appearance, or even the portrayal of Wulf (specifically the fact that we don't get to see him actually win a single fight?), but overall I feel like they truly did the story justice, and even adequately put it into the form of a modern story. Truly a spectacular film, and I feel like your review actually touches on stuff that I didn't even notice myself, such as her donning the dress (specifically what it would have entailed past the aesthetic value).
i am glad to see that there are still people out there who see this movie for how good it really is. It's been very discouraging seeing this movie with literally 1 star on amazon prime.
@liamwilson7549 my area was extremely weird with the movie. One theater sold out the opening day as soon as the tickets became available, but the theater I'd gone to was empty aside from a couple on the far side of the room. It felt like we were allowed to watch it exclusively but it still felt wrong
@@AttilaGaming it was the same for me. I honestly think the movie theater industry is dying. Deadpool was also the same when i went to see it and that had way more attendance globally
@@liamwilson7549 Hollywood is dead. Political activists killed it.
No this movie made Helm seem weak. So so very weak. His orginally story was so badass dying like an ice statue. Now he passes his mentle to some non-named character Tolkien would never have accepted. Made her brothers pathetic. And no way in hell could she kill a mumakill, just plain no way. Not even the eagles would respond to a numenorian high man, let alone a nobody no named middlemen women, thats a joke.
Making Wolf a simp for this nobody also was just disgusting.
Rem Eoewyn was a sheild maiden in disguse, not on merit, there were no sheild maidens before her, so that is just a lie.😅
😅😂
Had so much respect for your channel until this review. 😢
YES! Loved the film! Went twice! Its even better on the rewatch!
I think the Shield maiden were honnord by what they did.. it was mentioned in the movie.. they where the only left to fight White the man where killed.. so not a faction but a courage acceptation what they did..
Why do people not want to give this movie a chance.
Likely for one simple reason. They have given out so many chances before with project, such as rings of power, and got burned.
They are simply done with the girlboss can do everything. And Hera seems to be just a continuing of this example. In any other time, she might have been overlooked, but right now she is under extra examination with people not willing to give her a chance.
Gone are the days of a easier crowd liking your character, Hollywood has lost the good will of the public, and needs to earn it back.
That is why people are not willing to give her a chance. Because there are to many attempts already out there, that people are unwilling to give anymore freedom.
I think she's fine, not perfect, but serviceable in the role. Needed better writing but I don't mind the overall story.
"Girlboss can do everything" ???
She certainly isn't a warrior princess, like some claim she is, she never leads Rohans army into battle, she even got bested in combat by the traitor and is saved by a horse.
She was forced to stay behind whilst her brothers got to March off to battle. (Even Eowyn, is more of a girlboss in this regard, she sneaks into her father's army and kills the witchking)
She needs Frealaf and his army to come to Helms Deep to save them. The idea that she's bailed out at the end by a man completely contradicts the argument that she can do everything.
And then because of feudalism she loses her position in Rohan, as expected.
There are plenty of L's for Hera in the film.
You’re right about that. No more benefit of the doubt. There were four named male heroes in her family alone who were stepped over to get to a female, and we have her slaying supposedly powerful men and disparaging marriage and her arc is learning to trust in herself, which is all the red flags I can stand.
@@TealWolf26 I can agree, at any other time, she would be fine. Similar issue actually if you were to look at Ahsoka from starwars. If she came into being now, she would be a hard sell. But back when she came into being, it worked, because they also had time to work with her.
@@knightoffailure1869 Similar. I wanted to like this story, but the moment we switched form Helm in the trailer to hera, it gave me pause it showed so much of what other shows and movies have done, and failed to do well.
Im glad someone else thinks this was done well, i loved it personally
There were flaws, but I really enjoyed it, and would happily go back and see it again. Don't understand the huge hate its getting
Just saw the film today and ill say this...I HATE "Woke" films and this was NOT one of them. Hera was actually surprisingly better than I thought she would be and I would not call her a "girl boss" lol. She is not OP and gets roughed up quite a lot. She also does not overstep her father or brothers. Helm is a major character of the film and arguably the best character. His story is told and it was great. It's okay to not like the film. Everyone has different tastes but I liked it. It has issues for sure and Men of the West touches on a lot of those that I agree with. I'm glad I saw the film and would see it again for sure.
It’s become a 20-year long tradition for myself and my father to go to the movies, particularly for the Tolkien adaptations, and he absolutely loved this film. I also really enjoyed it in the same way I enjoy canonically dubious games like Shadow of Mordor. Hera is a non-canon character, but she could potentially fit into the unspoken part of the Appendices. After all, the story of the War of the Rohirrim is basically just a summary that only lasts about 4 pages?
My only real harsh criticism against the film is that the animation framerate is inconsistent (going from the standard 24fps to the typical 8-12fps framerate you would see in an anime episode) and that the pacing could drone on in certain moments. As far as the “woke” stuff is concerned, I would urge anyone to avoid any clickbait reviews about that. It is not imo. Hera never came across as the stereotypical “girlboss” tropey protagonist and Helm absolutely stole the show when it came down to it.*
Ultimately, I hope this is the beginning of more standalone animated films taking place in the legendarium. If we could get a darker and more polished anime adaptation of Tolkien stories such as The Children of Hurin or The Silmarillion as a whole, that would make me so happy!
*[Edit] I honestly have no issues with badass female characters in stories, I’m mainly talking about the disingenuous ways in which Hollywood implements those characters.
Thanks for not being an NPC and having your own opinions instead of parroting the opinions of youtubers. I will say I didn't think the movie was amazing, but not for reasons of wokeness or girl bossing. I still enjoyed it though. I give it a 5 or 6/10 - pretty average, but definitely not trash. It could be better, but i appreciate that it was actually very lore accurate, with the exception of giving Hera a name and giving her the Wulf kill.
I also ADORED this movie!!!
With all due respect, if you thought the lore of this film was accurate, I question your knowledge of the lore. There was a battle at the Fords of Isen between the Rohirrim and the Dunlendings which caused Helm's forces to retreat Súthburg. Wulf's forces ally with Easterling forces to ambush the Rohirrim force during that battle. Wulf then divides his forces to besiege Súthburg and attack Edoras. Haleth fell at Edoras defending it against Wulf's forces. Hama wasn't killed by Wulf, he was lost when he went out during the Long Winter to find supplies. Helm didn't die from one excursion. He made multiple excursions into the winter. Fréaláf didn't just kill Wulf, he actually led an attack to retake Edoras.
The movie literally contradicts what was written by Tolkien.
The hero of the War of Rohirrim is Fréaláf Hildeson, not some unnamed daughter.
Yeah but YOU know the lore, right?
He already mentioned this is a raw review. He is excited for the movie.
You regurgitating the story we have already read (because if we are watching these videos, we’ve almost all certainly read it as well) doesn’t make you a Tolkien scholar, it just makes you a gatekeeper.
We also know that Christopher Tolkien didn’t like PJs adaptations, so he wouldn’t like any adaptation.
That said, this feels like it belongs in PJs LOTR universe, warts and all.
Helm did many incursions in the movie...
@@MrPiestro If you're not going to follow the basic story, then why call it an adaptation? I didn't regurgitate the basic story, I just laid out the facts that contradict the movie.
I never made claim of being a Tolkien scholar. But, I can read his works and make a basic assessment.
And this film gives barely lip service to the what was actually written in the books.
@ Barely giving lip service is a wild inaccuracy.
The same could be said for PJs adaptations (which I love, yet know they deviate wildly in parts).
No Glorfindel, elves at Helms Deep, the list goes on.
Yet PJs adaptations do what they intended to do, stick with the spirit and heart of what Tolkien wrote, unlike Rings of Power.
Exactly, this is just some woke girlboss crap, I am disappointed by this movie
I was thinking "Bride of Rohan" too, but that might be a little much like Elizabeth I.
The time change is probably due to the changes in the timeline for the movies, since rather than the 17 years in the books, Gandalf is only gone for a few months in The Fellowship of the Ring
Definitely should have been the Bride of Rohan over Death. Her whole ploy was to give her people time to escape, LIFE.
Also, the wedding dress wasn't as visually striking as it could have been when she's already been wearing white the whole movie. Just my take.
Very much a meh movie, not good not bad just meh felt like a rinse and repeat of something Netflix would produce
Saw it today and really enjoyed it! I'm not necessarily a huge anime fan, but I thought it was the perfect vehicle for this story. They captured the lore, while the additions were plausible and enjoyable. Yes, I vote for more!
i watched it today with my brother and a friend. It was quite enjoyable, even bought the limited edition popcorn bucket.
I loved it ;-)
Thx for this review
"It's better than Rings of Power and the best we've gotten since the trilogy"
This ladies and Gentlemen is what we refer to as cope.
@knarftahw and, this, people, is what we call...indoctrination. Anything even remotely different is seen as an attack on his soul, and must be seen as the black hand of the demon itself.
i suppose when youve bin fed to much trash eventually even trash starts to taste a little better every time you taste it.
@@dendrien Talking about being fed trash, how about all the anti woke movie/games you've obviously been consuming? These big ragebait channels wouldn't recognise art if it smacked them in the face
@@dendrien Fair point.
Depressing, but fair.
It is better than the PJ's "Hobbit" as well, IMHO. I do not think that it is cope - you just can't have only masterpieces.
I don't understand how you can be about the Lore and love this.
That's a fairly big change to have her girl boss and kill the villain. The new king should be the one who does that. Enough of this crap
PJ enhances Arwens role and has her outrun the Nazgûl and save Frodo when in the books it was Glorfindel, and nobody bats an eye.
But because we have the internet and a culture war I guess right now, it matters. I can tell you about at least a hundred other things PJ changed about the Tolkien lore that nobody cares about except only the deep deep lore nerds.
Thank you for calling out the insincerity of the girl boss claims. Helm was super human... There are so many male characters in Tolkien's books and everywhere in culture. My little girl is constantly asking for movies with girls, she wants to see herself in these stories. As a female fan of Tolkien I am so excited and glad for this story to share with my daughter.
The issue you're experiencing is real but the solution is not to CHANGE established stories but to write new ones. Creativity is lacking in today's writing staffs, they can't seem to come up with anything original so they manipulate years old stories to fit whatever role their brain wasn't able to come up with.
This doesn't work and it's why Amazon's ROP, female ghost busters or Ocean's eight are all unsuccessful, as well as War of the rohirrim that was dropped from theaters after just 2 weeks. Weak writing.
And theres the problem. You want your daughter to have masculine role models and not feminine role models. What could possibly go wrong?
@floppypancakes9509 perhaps how I worded my post was confusing to you, but I am afraid I don't understand what you mean by your comment. I meant I was excited to have a strong female character's story to share with my daughter.
Reviewing this while everything is fresh in my mind:
I factually loved this movie so much, i just got home from seeing it (my sister went with me to see it as a Christmas present to me, she got us tickets T^T i feel spoiled lol)
I want to go see this again, its so good.
I loved the way they depicted Helm Hammerhand, he feels like the main character in every scene he's in, he dominates every scene he's in, he does everything that he does in his story, the only real change being that you are seeing him from Hera's perspective..
So, Hera...
I love her, so much
She's everything that Eowyn wanted to model herself after in my view, she's fierce and strong and loving and devoted to her family, protective of her home and her people, but she does show vulnerability and emotional depth, she loves her family so much and i love that what she really consistently wants is to protect them.
She is so thankfully /not/ a "girlboss" character, that being in my view.. a female (in name only) who comes in and overpowers and proves to be smarter than all of the men in her life, men who are frequently depicted as being unintelligent to the point of self-destructive while essentially dismissing her for her gender only to be proven wrong, that doesn't happen here, the only thing in the movie that comes anywhere close is Helm refusing to let her fight /because he wants to protect her/ which is proven to be justified considering the direction that the movie takes..
Hera is not overpowered, in actuality most every fight she gets into she wins because she isn't alone, her family protects her quite a great deal which I love
Mild spoler with this part:
Even her "fighting in a dress" has an explanation that i kind of loved.. which is... she was deliberately doing something that she knew would anger Wulf so that he would fixate on her while her people escaped the siege they are under, she was acting as a diversion hoping to keep him distracted until help arrived.. XD i love that she literally did it to tick him off...
Which does not at all go well for her, because she is badly outmatched in this exchange, she isn't an invincible heroine by any stretch of the imagination, she's a smart one, who does something to enable victory ahead of time and has a lot of outside help during
Unlike her father who is a wrecking ball who terrorizes /armies/ unarmed, by himself, without a weapon. He's /so cool/ ❤❤ ❤ T^T i loved him so much.
His sons as well, so naturally this movie made me hurt, but Hama especially is so sweet with his music playing..
End spoilers
I will say, the animation is a little rough near the beginning, it sort of seemed like the characters were sort of "floating" through their environment, and sometimes the animation felt a little.. odd..
But that was mostly near the beginning during the setup of the story, it smooths out as the plot gets to the more action heavy scenes, or i just got used to it?
Either way, it was a little odd, I got over it but i think it could have been done better if the characters had been more.. grounded (is that the word?) In their environment, like a lot of the other anime I've watched..
For the music...
The music was /so good/
As soon as that Rohan theme played i felt like i was watching the lord of the rings films again, i loved that so much.
And the end credits theme, The Rider, will never not make me feel /happy/ inside, i love that song so much, its so good, especially because they had it accompany the artwork like they did with lotr and the hobbit.
Overall.. this film was amazing to me, i want to see it again, it deserves so much better snd so much more praise than it has gotten, best Christmas gift ever was seeing this with my sister, who doesn't like anime, but still liked this movie~
I don't think I liked it as much as you did, there were quirks like turning shieldmaidens into some kind of a faction rather than a cultural practice that Rohirrim embrace in general in moments of crisis (or some more priviledged Rohirrim woman can do), which you mentioned, that made my eyebrow rise, but I found the technical aspects of the animation the most underdeveloped. I wonder if at some point this might have been considered for streaming release instead of a cinematic one and hence why WB didn't really put as much resources as was needed into it. However I did enjoy it overall, probably more than Hobbit movies and definitely more than that RoP travesty of a pseudoadaptation. Not sure if it's a movie I will be particularly into rewatching, but I might go back to some scenes from time to time and I would like to take a closer look into some background details they came up with such as heraldry of different regions and subfactions.
I didn't see the shieldmaidens being a faction, there's only one of them in the movie because they have no sort of order, they're just a group of people who did the same thing, and that shieldmaiden is a handmaid of the princess, which makes sense, that a warrior king would have a fighter also be his daughter's handmaid.
I found the movie very beautiful. It undoubtedly conveys the Tolkienesque and fantasy atmosphere, unlike Rings of Power, where the dialogues seem taken from ordinary conversations of our times. In The War of the Rohirrim, everything is faithful to the fantasy atmosphere. I see nothing wrong with the fact that Hera is an invented character.
In Tolkien's writings, Helm Hammerhand does have a daughter which is unnamed. The only mention of her is when Freca requests that she be married to his son Wulf as a marriage alliance. Helm of course rejects it and have a fist fight with Freca outside the hall of Meduseld where Freca got killed as a result. After that, she is never mentioned again, making her fate unknown. She is not an invented character, but her name and accomplishments are created for the movie. This animated movie tells the story and accomplishments of Helm's daughter who is given the name of Hera. She is portrayed as an independent minded young woman with the desires to create her own path in life rather than following the traditional path for women as dictated by the patriarchal society of Rohan. The story of her accomplishments has inspired Eowyn to carve out her own path in life.
I would give it a 6/10. Was it bad? No. Great? No (but easily could have been). I think a simple fix would make it great. Save Helm’s death for the end. While Wulf, Hera, and Frealaf are fighting, at the same time Helm is defending the Hornburg as shown. Once *Frealaf* makes the killing blow (he needs a win and Hera already won a duel disarming Wulf) they go to the gate to find Helm frozen in place. This would allow the audience to soak in Helm’s death more and authenticating Frealaf as king rather than Hera just giving up the title cuz she doesn’t want it and be lore accurate.
I do agree that overall it’s solid. I’d probably give it a 7/10. After just having my first view tonight, I don’t like the member berries much. Rings of power has kind of ruined them. The music coming back was a beautiful touch. I would’ve been fine with a line here or there but especially early on I feel like there was several that was a bit much. I felt also at first that if you changed the title and it almost could’ve been any anime ever. I wasn’t over fond of freca. But I do think the movie was quite solid and there’s a LOT of overreaction to this movie. I’m not an anime watcher AT ALL. And I’d still rate it quite highly. I wish they would have done a few less member berries and done a bit more visual showing of connections to the trilogy as opposed to having people repeat or almost act out mannerisms from the trilogy. And then I agree. Wish they would’ve shown and not told us when Hera was getting so good at riding or fighting or anything like that.
I really enjoyed the movie. I think we could nitpick for hours but let’s be realistic, we aren’t going to get a word to screen movie. Peter Jackson made major changes and yet we love the movies. This movie felt like LORT not just an anime that says it’s LORT. I understand some of the frustration, I love Tolkien more than any other author, and LOTR is my favorite series. However; if we have the most unrealistic expectations for every project we can miss good things. I think this movie is good, as a Tolkien purest, I enjoyed it. Is it perfect? Of course not. However, it is good.
Hey Yoystan I have to hard disagree with this idea that because the story focused on Hera that she must be the one to kill Wulf. How would you feel if at the end of ROP Galadirel defeats Sauron instead of Gil Galad and Elendil. Would that not make sense given her placement in the story? Or what if a made up character was a focus on a lake town film and he were the one to kill Smaug and not Bard. I agree people have thrown too much hate to this film and to Hera, but come on man.
Point taken, but did Frealaf killing Wulf impact the world in a larger way like Elendil and Gil-galad or Bard and Smaug compared to Hera killing Wulf? I just don’t believe it would cause much of a difference there.
@@MenoftheWest it is important for the story of the character, despite the fact that there was less written about that character compared to the others listed before. Take for example Beleg. Have him killed by someone else and the history of middle earth does not necessarily change drastically but it does for the character of Turin. And of course Turin is as deep a character as any but the principle still stands. It is not about the impact in history but about the actual character interactions and what they mean for history.
If Frealaf were not to have killed Wulf then let’s say that he maintains control over Rohan. That does impact the story long term. But even if that were not the case I would say that an important moment (whether it was more or less important in the annals of history) for a character which is what is what makes them known should be persevered.
I’m not even saying that this ruins the film. It’s something I personally don’t like and they should not have done. Just pointing out that to say that it is not a big deal is kind of contradictory with desiring to preserve the lore.
Love your content man and glad to see you on fire about Middle Earth after this viewing!
@@TheJmlew11hell him killing wulf probably helped him in establishing his reputation as king and made the transition smoother
They minimized Frealaf simply to uplift Hera. It's an insult to Tolkien's lore. Frealaf should've had a much larger role but they couldn't have that. They show absolute contempt for Tolkien's actual story. Frealaf deserved better.
@@calus7958who cares?
Your stamp of approval means a lot to me. I'll be looking forward to my chance to see it either tomorrow or later this week.