John, not only your video is excellent but also your replies are highly informative and a must for everybody intending to accomplish this type of mod. Thanks a lot for sharing your knowledge!
Thank you! Great tutorial. I've upgraded two guitars so far. To save your iron, use a piece of parchment paper to cover the surface before melting the wax on the pickup. The plastic varnish is genius!
The method works well. Two things: I agree that using the iron will deteriorate the bar magnet, so keep that in mind if you intend to use it again. Additionally, be aware that some strat-style coils are wound directly around the pole pieces, so remove them at your own risk!
Pretty cool. Alternatively, you could drill 6 magnet-sized holes in a popsicle stick that match the pole piece spacing, and glue the ends on the pickup. Cover the magnets with some strong tape. It would make disassembly a lot easier if you decided to re-use the magnets.
Wow ! I am totally amazed . I have had a few guitars with ceramic bar pickups , I always bought new alnico pickups and gave away the old pickups . I guess I never considered exactly how pickups are put together ! Thanks for opening up my eyes ! I wish I would have seen this video 30 years ago ! It would have saved me a ton of money ! I would love to hear before and after sound sound tests . Thank You so so much ! After watching this , the possibilites are endless for custom pickups and magnet combinations . You can't screw anything up because the stock bar magnets sound so bad I usually just discard them !
I came here for ideas and left with knowledge and a good laugh after reading a few idiotic comments with absolute god level responses. Definitely got a sub as well. Thank you sir, I recently (in the last week) started messing with guitars again. I can’t play for the life of me but I plan on learning, it started with me buying a guitar for my 11yo daughter and now I’m the owner of 4 partially clapped out old guitars that I plan on giving a new life. Her tele is staying untouched other than her playing it but mine I plan on making into better instruments with complete disregard of originality. I love the hack and I’ll definitely be trying it once I get a new set of pickups just in case I screw something up.
Did I miss the part where you made sure the magnets were reverse polarity on the middle pickup or did the simple act of holding them in place on the clean side do that for you?
Great! Watch my other video on magnet simulation th-cam.com/video/qmNLeBWowp8/w-d-xo.html and read the description to know what to expect. Try the other configurations and go for the sound that you like. Good luck!
The channel heavymetalATC already did this comparison, he does a few different magnet setups, pretty much it ends up sounding like an AlNiCo with more bass response
I tried this with some spare pickups I had. I had to be very careful with the string height as I was getting some very pronounced wolf tones. The plain G was worst, particularly if using a 'vintage stagger' pole height pattern. 5 level and a very slightly low G worked well. I had better results with some alnico rod (4.95mm x 17mm) that I had lying around. it's available on ebay but a little pricier compared to neodymium.
I enjoyed watching this most interesting video, and I have to say, with all respect to other videos, I appreciated your LACK of narrative, relying only on the subtitles to describe your actions. So many others get very redundant trying to make their points; one's tempted to fast forward and say, "I GET it! I GET it!" There was something relaxing about having the open sound, complete with roosters and other great critters, but minus the talking-it-out, that makes it more like looking over your shoulder without being "talked AT." KUDOS! And a great procedure seemingly made fairly simple. My only question: You're clearly very detail-oriented and precise. I appreciated the Popsickle stick precaution in removing the magnets, for example. And cleaning the iron later... great! Having done this procedure as many times as you have, when tapping out the pole pieces, I'm surprised you haven't made some sort of a simple jig to support the underside edges of a pickup (of course allowing space for the poles to come through) in a vise (or something), to hold the pickup MUCH more securely at that point, rather than merely using the loosely-open jaws of some channel locks. That was pretty wobbly for what I'd think is a relatively delicate operation. Just sayin'. At the same time, as you said, your whole concept is to keep it simple, and that you did beautifully. Lastly, I was sorry to see the pissing contest in the comments section, but what it did do was bring out the high technical knowledge that you and others have of magnetism, inductance, pickup construction and many other physics concepts of which most guitarists have only limited, if any knowledge. That was very interesting - even seeing the differing sides of it all. I must say, again, your argument ("legalese," not anger) seems to make the most sense, very well thought out and described. Your knowledge, and that of others, is most impressive. I learned more than just how to beef up a Strat pickup! Thank you! Cheers!
Thank you very much for such kind words. I'm really glad you like my video presentation. Cheap pickups are quite sturdy. The only thing that is delicate in a pickup is the magnet wire of the coil. But most of the time, the mounting wires are soldered inside the coil, which is covered by at least 2 layers of tape, so there are no exposed thin wires. In some pickups where lead magnet wires are exposed, they are usually routed in a groove on the bobbin and covered in wax, just like expensive alnico pickups. The thinnest part of the bobbin is around 0.8mm thick and the top is thinner than the bottom. You can tap the pole pieces from the top but if you miss, you can chip or crack the bobbin. Tapping from the bottom is safer. There is no need to provide support to the bobbin because much of the the force is directed on the pole piece and very little is distributed to the bobbin, unless it is stuck with rust or you miss hitting the pole piece. The bobbin is usually made from acrylic or HDPE (I think). You can toss the pickups around, just don't abuse them. After the magnet is removed from the pickup, the pole pieces are being held only by residual glue from the magnet and paraffin wax, aside from their snug fit in the bobbin holes. While the glue and wax are still warm, the pole pieces will slide out with little effort. In the video, I was just overly cautious because sometimes the pole pieces can still be uncomfortable to touch. It's better to err on the side of safety. Using a hammer was overkill but that was the first thing I saw on my table to use to tap the pole pieces but you can just push the pole pieces with a rod by hand. But I think tapping a rod gives better control. I do have a table vise in my other work table and I use it in a lot of things including pickup modification. But in laying out the procedure for this video, I had to consider that not everybody has a table vise. Besides, I have also used this method many times before and working light has its advantages. Pickups are very simple devices but the underlying principles behind them are quite complex. However, it's easy to understand the basic things about them and you can get by with little knowledge. There's no need to make it appear complicated, mystical and expensive.
... Which is very appreciated! Thanks for your reply, John. I just figured it'd be easier, if not safer for the pickup, to hold the thing still somehow. But your point's well-taken. I do guitar & pedal mods myself (have some good ones for Gretsch models with the Standby Switches... Gretsch actually mis-engineered them!), and knowing the benefits of moving from the living room floor to a decent work table with the clamping devices I might need, I guess I appreciate them more than some! By the way (a little off-topic, but...), from using the Gretsches I mentioned (I have 2) I've come to rely on having standby/mute switches in most of my guitars & basses! (It's SO simple - just a switch to short hot to ground at the output. I did more than that with the Gretsch Country Gentleman & its 3-way on/off/on switch. It's now off/on/on w add'l filter cap & well worth the effort!) The mute's especially useful when playing more than one instrument in live performance; you needn't change volumes when changing guitars, just turn it off. It's become vital in a Strat I use also with a Roland guitar synth. On more than one song, I'm switching between guitar & synth, & it's vital to be able to quickly turn the guitar off & on, so it's not playing when I use the synth. The "mix" selector on the synth pickup output is far too clumsy to make that switch quickly enough. Don't know why more guitars don't have 'em! Anyway, another topic for another time. Thanks again for your MOST informative video, and all the following writing. Great stuff!
... Which is very appreciated! Thanks for your reply, John. I just figured it'd be easier, if not safer for the pickup, to hold the thing still somehow. But your point's well-taken. I do guitar & pedal mods myself (have some good ones for Gretsch models with the Standby Switches... Gretsch actually mis-engineered them!), and knowing the benefits of moving from the living room floor to a decent work table with the clamping devices I might need, I guess I appreciate them more than some! By the way (a little off-topic, but...), from using the Gretsches I mentioned (I have 2) I've come to rely on having standby/mute switches in most of my guitars & basses! (It's SO simple - just a switch to short hot to ground at the output. I did more than that with the Gretsch Country Gentleman & its 3-way on/off/on switch. It's now off/on/on w add'l filter cap & well worth the effort!) The mute's especially useful when playing more than one instrument in live performance; you needn't change volumes when changing guitars, just turn it off. It's become vital in a Strat I use also with a Roland guitar synth. On more than one song, I'm switching between guitar & synth, & it's vital to be able to quickly turn the guitar off & on, so it's not playing when I use the synth. The "mix" selector on the synth pickup output is far too clumsy to make that switch quickly enough. Don't know why more guitars don't have 'em! Anyway, another topic for another time. Thanks again for your MOST informative video, and all the following writing. Great stuff!
I get your point. I am a little apprehensive about using big metal tools on plastic devices. The possibility that the plastic will slip and break is too great. It is very difficult to estimate how much clamping force is enough before it begins to break. What I do is just to hold the rod with my thumb and index finger and the other three fingers secure the pickup against my palm and gently put pressure down on it towards the pliers acting as a wedge. If you find holding the pickup with 3 fingers against your palm a little difficult, place a piece of thick rag over the pickup. I used to have a Chet Atkins Country Gentleman. It's a beautiful piece of art. I miss that guitar. I think it would be better to have a kill switch pedal, which is very easy to make. Place that between your effects pedal board and the amplifier or mixer so that any noise coming from your pedal board will also be muted.
Good stuff, John. "In the hand" makes sense, too... there's a lot of control and "feel" there. Yes, the Gent IS a piece of art, indeed. It's THE guitar that got me interested in guitars in the first place, when George played his on Ed Sullivan Show. Fascinating to me then, still is now! The kill switch on the floor is good - I use the volume pedal for that kind of "Master." But often when I play live, I have 3 guitars (the Gent, Ric 360-12, & Strat) all plugged in to a mixer, then to pedals, then to the amp. (AC30) So I have to be able to mute 2 guitars while I play the 3rd or I'm almost sure to get one on a stand feeding back. Keeping them all plugged in & ready is a major time saver when switching instruments. And as I said with the Strat, switching to the guitar between phrases on the Roland synth, sometimes very fast for just a phrase or 2, having that small switch on the lower horn is right where I need it. On the particular song I'm thinking of that's most "pedal intensive", "Hello Goodbye" with my Beatles tribute band (NO wigs or costumes, just The Music), I'm doing such a pedal dance on that, to add another would drive me to my grave! Between violins on the synth, then "clean" guitar for the legato slide, then the fuzz guitar line for the choruses, back & forth... it's a fun challenge, but that little switch literally makes it possible! There's no guitar through much of the song, only the violins, so for those all-important phrases, I can just turn it on when I need it, then off again. Pretty cool. Thanks for your thoughts, John! Cheers!
The magnets will clear up the sound some, but it will also lose a little output strength, and cut the highs just a bit. for just a little more cash (and a lot of time to do it by hand), you can strip the wire from your spool, and rewind with more coils, just keep an eye on the resistance, usually 1 or 2 k ohms more is enough, and do not keep a parallel wind (that increases capacitance, and creates a filtering effect). overwinding will increase the output as well, and give you crisper highs. if you are skilled, and have a vice, you can even use a variable speed drill (slower is easier to get a consistent wind). though this option is not for everyone. If you don't want to spend the big bucks, there are also some pickups on the net that sell for less than the big names, but will still net you a better sound (unless you are starting with a five or six hundred dollar guitar to begin with.
John Doesn't , Why would adding Neodymium disc magnets make your ceramic pickups or alnico pickups sound more twangy?Any other modification you can do to pickups to make them sound more twangy, jangly, chimey like Rickenbacker pickups jangly tones?
thanks John , Good Work ,, I read most of this & your long reply .. I didn't see any reference to how they change the sound ,, the increase output = volume ,,frequency harmonic content of the string & resistance in Ohms.. ( which is fairly indicative of how it might sound.. low = sounds vintage & clear ,,, high Ohm resistance = sounds brighter ,, etc. as a locked in gtr tweeker , I guess a sound comparison would help ,, Ohm readings ,, that' where I think there could be more info,, thanks again., Nigel Tufnels hot rodded gtr would be a challenge.. he he he.
Hi there amigo. Thanks for the great video, well presented, easy to follow good instructions, no BS narrative. I would've loved to hear the finished result. Please do a follow up sound demo of the upgrade.
Thanks for sharing john. this is a great project. I have tried it but the output of the neodymium was much weaker than the ceramic, even when stacked. maybe I got a low quality neodymium.
Yes, the output of the modified pickup has a much lower output than when it had ceramic magnets. It's output volume should be like an old Alnico 2. But compared with its ceramic tone, it should now have a more "defined" middle range. It would also help if you clean the point of contact between the neodymium magnet and the pole pieces. As much as possible, there should be as much bare metal to metal contact. It is also possible that one or two magnets have their polarities reversed If you really want a high volume output, try putting the neodymiums on top but that would change its "tone" as well. When placed on top, secure the magnets to the pole pieces with a stronger adhesive. If you strike it strong enough with a pick, it might fly off. If you get weird tones, lower the pickup height. Hope this helps.
thanks for the reply john. the problem could be the reversed polarity.I had problem to tell the polarity because the neodymium magnets would stick to the ceramic magnet either side.
Old-school ingenuity! What makes me grin, though: Use a "crude" electric iron, but place extremely advanced smartphone with 4 gigs of RAM pretty darn close to the iron, just to keep time! :)
Interesting modification bui what exactly does this do ? ..(.cleaner , louder ) Also I bought a trashed pawn shop Squire strat cheap just to learn and play with , and I found someone reworked the wiring for the pickups ..not sure why but oh well , they also .placed a extra bar magnet underneath the pickup mags maybe to get more power ..... the soldering looked like it was don by a first grader , I replaced it with a stratosphere loaded pickguard and it seems to be ok now . I think your Modification would be desirable for chickin pickin .lol
You ("us") have asked that question, in one form or another, several times already and I have answered all of them. One of you ("us") have even graciously provided a link.
Danang Sugeng Nugroho, I've been planning to make test audio recordings of the different magnet and -pole piece configurations. I have to ensure that the test conditions are identical for each test sample and only the magnet and pole piece configuration will need to be changed. I would need a dedicated guitar and pickup to work on this and other ideas I am planning to do but I don't have a spare guitar to use right now. I will post my work as soon as I have finished doing it. But instead of waiting for me to do it, why not do your own experiment and maybe share your experience. Doing the modification is not difficult and you can always easily revert back to the original magnet configuration of your pickup if you're not happy with the result. But I seriously doubt if you will use the original ceramic magnet again once you make the modification. Read the recommendations I made in the description in my other video (th-cam.com/video/s0OZy8w8Pr8/w-d-xo.html) to get an idea on what to expect. Good luck with your project!
Fantasic, you answered my only process related question in the description. Great vid. Only one other question sorry if its overly noobish but will this be the same for humbuckers? Never seen inside one before.
Is this method the same for precision pickups in a bass? Mine have a ceramic bar magnet in the bottom so it theoretically would be the same in approach though I am wondering if the location of the pickups relative to each other might impact the tone due to them being very close. Either way thank you John for this very helpful video.
This modification should work with the pickups of a Precision Bass. I haven't tried it but I suggest that you put magnets on the top and bottom of the pole pieces instead of putting them on the bottom only. That should give the sound more "definition" and still maintain a clear "bottom" or bass sound. But you should secure the magnet on top with a stronger adhesive.
Humbuckers’ two coils have reverse polarity from each other. If you match the polarity of the coils it should theoretically work. It would be fun to see your video on it. Cheers.
I tried something quite similar, but not as complicated. I've stuck the little neodymiums under the ceramic bar, i get the impression it changed the tone, for the better...i think.
I have not tried it the way you did. I suppose that the neodymiums increased the strength of the ceramic bar magnet and somewhat increased the output of your pickups. You can try putting the neodymiums on top of the pickups and you will get and an even more "punchier" sound but you would have to lower your pickups from the strings to avoid magnet-induced harmonics. But removing the ceramic bar magnet altogether and replacing it with neodymium disc magnets will give your pickups a different tone character, which, in my opinion, is much better. Watch my other video on magnet simulations and read the description to get an idea on the different magnet-pole piece configurations. Good luck on your project!
In this video, I used one 5mm diameter with 1mm thickness N52 neodymium disc magnet per pole piece. It's in the description. I suggest you read it and the comments. I would also suggest that you watch my other videos: Cheap Pickups with Amazing Tone and Great Looks - Customizing Neodymium Modified Pickups (th-cam.com/video/Zy_DmaYppns/w-d-xo.html) Magnetic Field Simulation of Different Pole Piece Configurations with Neodymium Disc Magnets (th-cam.com/video/s0OZy8w8Pr8/w-d-xo.html) After doing your modification, I would appreciate a feedback, good or bad. A short description of the effect of your modification would be nice. Thank you.
john doesn't,,, Out here in the Southern Hemisphere of Auckland New Zealand,,, I believe you mate, I read your statement and his, & have to say, yours is pretty plausible
You are right about the DC resistance of the pickup. It did not change after the modification. The magnet strength or "N" rating of the disc magnets used in the video is N35. But you can use a N52. Soundwise, an N52 will sound a little brighter than a N35. But an N35 will sound more "vintage-ish". In both cases, the magnet pull on the strings is negligible. With an N35 at the bottom of the pole piece, the Gauss level at the string is even less than an Alnico 3. With respect to the physical properties, a N52 magnet is more brittle than a N35. N52 magnet will usually crack, or even shatter into pieces, if they pull on each other and slam strong enough. Tiny splinters may fly on to your eyes, so wear protective gear. N52 magnets are usually nickel coated.
Hey John, thanks for making the video and sharing it with the interweb. What tone differences have you noticed from this mod?I would like to DIY my pickups, just to hear if there's an interesting difference. Also I'm to poor to buy pickups. If I were to perform this mod on my Ibanez RG with V1, V7, V8 pickups what could I expect? More brightness, mid range boost...? Could this mod be performed on Humbuckers as well, if so, how does one do so. Looking forward to your answers. Cheers Eric.
Based on how I hear it, unlike ceramic pickups, which usually have very pronounced upper midrange frequencies (2-4 KHz) and strong midrange (500Hz - 2KHz), the neodymium modification as demonstrated in this video, with only one disc magnet at the bottom of the stock pole pieces, low midrange frequencies (250-500 Hz) are more pronounced and the midrange frequencies are stronger. Changing the material of the pole pieces (magnetic permeability) and/or their length will have an effect on the "tone" of the pickup. Also, magnet strength (number of magnets) as well as its location in the pole piece will also have an effect on the "tone" and the output power of the pickup. Watch my other video on magnet simulation (th-cam.com/video/s0OZy8w8Pr8/w-d-xo.html) and read its description to get an idea of the other possibilities. Also, watch my new tutorial on using hardened steel as pole pieces (th-cam.com/video/Zy_DmaYppns/w-d-xo.html). The magnet modification in my videos are very easy to do and if you are not satisfied with the result, you can try the other options for modification or revert back to the original ceramic magnet. Humbuckers have different structures, and they usually have one set of adjustable screws that are mounted on a metal bar. Also, their pickup covers will prevent adding disc magnets directly under the pole pieces, unless you cut them. I haven't tried modifying humbuckers but I suppose the easiest way to modify them is to replace their ceramic magnets with a similar sized neodymium or alnico magnets. Either way, it will not be a cheap modification. There are several tutorials out there on how to go about magnet swap on humbuckers. You may want to view or read about them.
Short answer: No. Coils of ceramic pickups are wound in plastic bobbins, unlike alnico pickups, which are wound directly over the pole pieces that are held by phenolic boards called "flatwork". Not to be flippant, but, bobbins are bobbins. The confusion is caused by guitar parts suppliers who refer to alnico pickup phenolic boards as "bobbin flatwork". In coil construction, a bobbin is a material that secures the coil and separates it from the core. It is sometimes called a "coil former" or "coil mount". So, a "flatwork" is not a bobbin because it is just a board that functions as a flange to keep the coil from slipping beyond the core, which is the pole pieces, and it also keeps the pole pieces in place. So, why are parts sellers creating this confusion? Probably to make cheap boards appear unique, more functional and make it sound expensive.
really interesting mod.. I love tweeking guitars... I just bought a really cheap strat copy .. with one pice neck & 3 piece body .. the woods are great , but the PUs are brittle & toppy .. searching around for mods.. why can't you just put Neo Dymium disc magnets straight on top of the pole pieces... ?... & lower the entire PU to compensate height... or will the strings stick to them ?..
Of course, you can place neodymium disc magnets on top of the pole pieces without removing the ceramic bar magnet but you will not get the same "tone" if you follow the modification procedure in this video. The strings will not stick to the magnets. it's more likely that they will dislodge with strong picking.
A skillful use of common tools to achieve an uncommon upgrade: this is genius. Thank you for including several "why" explanations. These prevent me from having to learn from mistakes. Yeah, I would have used hot melt glue. Dr. G
Einstein is a genius. I am not. I merely picked up on the ideas of other people from the Music Electronics Forum, I researched and experimented, and came up with this simple procedure. It's not my original idea. Anyway, thank you for the compliment. I'm glad that you liked my tutorial.
Yeah, I probably use genius a bit too much, but I am impressed when someone learns to do something so well that they can explain it simply. Einstein might have said: I merely picked up Newton's ideas from the Principia Mathemateca forum, I researched the Michaelson-Morley experiment, and made some simple mathematical adjustments. It's not really an original idea. The same process you used. Anyway, I just bought 200 of these (cheap) magnets to experiment with some of my ceramic magnet guitars. Thanks, brother, Dr. G
I appreciate what you're getting at but you're stretching the argument too far and it really doesn't fit. As far as this tutorial is concerned, it all comes down to the fact that I just chose to use common sense. Most people choose to ignore it. I can see that you grasped the concept of this tutorial very well, that this is only the bare basic idea of the pickup modification. That explains why you bought a lot of magnets. It can get quite interesting and complicated (not really complicated although sounds intellectually challenging) when you place the magnet in between the ends of the pole pieces and/or use other magnetically permeable material or mix different kinds of ferro magnetic material and/or magnet configuration to contour the magnet field propagation. Good luck on your quest for a better "tone" on the practical and cheap side of the equation.
Yes sir, you can put the neodymium magnets at the bottom of the pole pieces right after removing the ceramic bar magnet. Before applying glue I suggest that you try putting one neodymium at the bottom first, then two neodymiums at the bottom, then one neodymium at the top. Go for the configuration that sounds best for you. Spread a light glue over the bobbin and neodymiums. Avoid putting glue in between the neodymiums and the pole pieces so that it will be easier to separate them if and when you decide to modify your pickups again. If you decide to put one neodymium on top, push the pole pieces in the bobbin just a little bit, so that the neodymium, or part of it is in the pickup cover, then apply a thin glue on the side between the pole pieces and the neodymiums. This will prevent the neodymiums from separating from the pole pieces in the event that you hit it with a pick while playing.
Hi, I have a question. I noticed that you mixed all the poles pieces together and started placing them on the pickups. Do they need to be placed in an specific way? Will it cause issues if you flip some of the pole pieces by mistake? I plan to do this to my guitar and would like to know if I need to keep an eye on this. Thanks! Great video btw!!!! 🎉
The pole pieces of ceramic pickups are not magnetized. In the video, the pole pieces are identical. They can be placed in any hole in any position. If you have staggered pole pieces, follow the staggered pattern when re-inserting the pole pieces. If you are going to use the same stock pole pieces, there is no need to remove them. Just remove any gum/adhesive/wax residue on the pole pieces after removing the ceramic bar magnet. The critical part is how to attach the neodymium disc magnets and ensure that their polarities are oriented properly. Thank you for your comment. Good luck!
When you have removed the magnets from the bobbin, wouldn't that be a good time to pour hot wax or nail polish or something into the holes so as to fixate the innards of the pickup so that they do not vibrate, thereby making unwanted cacaphony and distorted ambient sounds?
Most of the time, the pole pieces are already "waxed in" the bobbin holes so you do not have to put wax in the stock pole pieces. But if you are going to replace the stock pole pieces, putting wax is an option to keep them from vibrating but do not apply wax on the neodymium magnets. Wax is applied hot and it might degrade the neodymium magnets. If you want to wax pot the coil, do it before placing the neodymium magnets but you have to scrape off all the wax at the bottom of the pole pieces to have a good coupling between the magnet and the pole pieces.
Hi. I really liked your video, thank you for sharing it. I'm considering on doing this to my pickups. But I have some questions for you, if you don't mind: Have you heard that you can remagnetize "old" rods and by that "revive" their tone? If you have, which method would you prefer for that purpose? And the last question: Which neodymium magnets did you use in your video, some N35s or N52s? I have this question because I can only find 5mm x 1mm N35, but no N52; but there are 5mm x 2mm N52 (so I think I'll use theese), would you say there is a "considerable" difference between some N35s and N52s magnets placed at the bottom of the pick up?
Albert Van Krieg, Regarding your first question, I'm sorry if I misunderstood you, but are you asking which is better between remagnetizing an old alnico magnet and putting a neodymium magnet on an alnico magnet? I haven't tried attaching neodymium magnets to alnico magnets because I'm still happy with the alnico pickups that I have, as they are. But comparing the sound of an alnico pickup to a neodymium modified ceramic pickup, the alnico sounded "fuller". However, this might not be a fair comparison. The alnico had a thicker coil, the wires are probably #42, while neodymium modified ceramic had a slimmer coil, with wires probably #43, or maybe thinner. Regarding your second question on using 5mm diameter with 1mm thickness neodymium magnets, N52 will produce a stronger output that is somewhat "brighter" than a N35, which sounds warm and mellow. But a 2mm thickness N52 will have a noticeably boosted output than a 1mm thickness N52. As an alternative, you may opt to stack two 1mm thickness N35 if you think that a single 1mm thickness N35 too soft for your taste. Stacked two 1mm thickness N35 is not as "aggressive" as one 2mm N52. In the video, I used N52 5mm x 1mm magnets on stock pole pieces. I hope I answered your questions. I'm glad you liked my video. Good luck with your modification!
Oh man, I don't know why but I wasn't notified when you answered. And yes, now that I've read my comment again I noticed that my questions are some confusing, haha, but you understood well. Thank you very much for taking your time answering to every one of my questions! And regarding the first two of them I was thinking more like "remagnetized/new alnico pickups vs neodymium modified ceramic pickups (with old rods)".
The objective is to change the "tone" of the pickup by changing: (1) the magnet; and (2) the pole pieces (although the video merely demonstrated the changing of the magnet, this was suggested in the options for the pole pieces). Technically, this is really changing the frequency response of the pickup as an inductor by the changing the core of the coil. Differences in the in the characteristics of the magnet (mass, shape, energy, etc.) and the pole pieces (mass, shape, permeability, etc.) will give rise to a different frequency response curve. In my point of view, replacing the ceramic bar magnet with neodymium disc magnets will give the pickup a better "tone". The change in "tone" also depends, among other things, on where you place the magnet (bottom, middle or top) and how many you will use.
2 magnets per peg wont fit in my guitar, so before you go through the extra trouble of trying to put two on without them all coming together make sure it will still fit, or router the hole deeper.
Nice video; however, I think it might lead some people down a wrong path into thinking ceramic = bad. Some of the best Tele pickups I've ever used or heard were Fender Mexican made ceramics. Search for videos of Guthrie Trapp playing his famous green Tele copy. It also has stock Mexican made fender pickups, and he gets the best Tele sound I've ever heard.
I'm glad you like my work. It is a common perception that any procedure that shows how to replace something implies that the replacement is better. But that conclusion is generally borne out of the reader or viewer's knowledge, experiences, and prejudices. That is why the very first statement I made in this video is a statement of its basic premises, and that is you don't like the sound of your stock pickups AND you don't want to spend a lot of money; nothing about ceramic pickups being bad. I also recommended not to use epoxy or super glue to secure the magnets and use plastic varnish instead, with the idea that it would make it easy to revert back to the pickup's original setup and sound, suggesting that changing the ceramic magnet may not turn out to be better. So I don't think I made any allusion that ceramic pickups are bad, per se. A well designed and made pickup has, almost always, good sound quality, whether it uses alnico, ceramic or neodymium magnets. The bad reputation of ceramic pickups is due to some manufacturers skimping on quality materials and employing shabby mass production processes to lower costs. Because of this, quite a number, if not a majority, of ceramic pickups are below par, to say the least. For people falling within the group of people described in the beginning of this video, the solution offered here may be an option.
It's the title that bothers me. It implies that ceramic pickups are cheap (some are quite expensive--Barden for instance) and that this will make them sound great--as if they didn't sound great before, which may or may not be the case. I'm also not sure about the quality of the manufacturing process. For example, Duncan consistently makes some of the worst sounding pickups I've ever heard, yet they use good materials, while Dimarzio makes great sounding pickups using the least expensive materials they can to keep the cost down (very thin lead wire, not cloth covered etc.) You can carry 5-volts on a strand of hair, so wire size really doesn't matter, and electrical tape works better than cloth anyway. I've never played any neodymium pickups. I really don't care what they're made of or how they're made. I either like the sound or I don't. Cheers.
I thought you were concerned about a supposed allusion from the video that ceramic pickups are bad. Anyway, regarding your new concern about an allusion from the title that ceramic pickups are cheap, I think you're forcing a conclusion that is not warranted by the statement. What is conveyed by the title is to change cheap pickups. The subtitle in parenthesis states that the change will be from ceramic to neodymium. What can be reasonably inferred here is that the cheap pickups are ceramic pickups BUT not the other way around because there is nothing there to suggest that ceramic pickups are always cheap. But even if it can be inferred that ceramic pickups are cheap, it would not matter much because it is not being recommended to modify expensive ceramic pickups, as the title clearly suggests. Perhaps, it would be better to sell it. Your concern that this video is suggesting to modify pickups that are already sounding great is unfounded. The first statement in the video, "if you don't like the sound of your pickup," already eliminates them as a possible candidates for modification. If the pickup already sounds great, whether it's expensive or cheap, why modify it? Also, I'm not advocating a particular brand as good or not good. It's the owner or user who determines whether a ceramic pickup sounds great or not. What may be good sounding to me may not be good sounding to others, and vice versa. In other words, what sounds great is subjective.
Hi John, do you have any idea if for the cheap pickups with whole ceramic piece magnet on the bottom if I split it in 2 from the middle and position it on the sides of the coil instead of the botton could it improve the sound too ? I see that some good fender pickups have 2 lines of ceramic magnets on the sides of the coil instead of just 1 whole piece on the bottom, any idea ?
"Improve" is a relative term and is very subjective. A more appropriate word is "change". When I started experimenting with pickup modifications, I also tried making a P-90-ish modifications on cheap single coil pickups. I replaced the pole pieces with 1008 round steel bar cut to length to make contact with the magnets. The challenge was how to cut the magnet lengthwise in two equal parts, without losing mass and without breaking it into smaller pieces. I decided to buy neodymium bar magnets instead but they broke before I could test the setup extensively. The sound was powerful because of the neodymiums and had characteristics somewhere between a humbucker and a traditional single coil. I am currently experimenting on this P-90-type of modification. I might make a video after I have finished trying the different configurations. But this is a weekends-only project and I have several different projects ongoing simultaneously. So it may take a while. The P-90-type modification entails more work and costs more than the modification in this video. But if you have a chop saw or an angle grinder with a cutting wheel, it will be a lot easier. A drill press will also be useful. Experiment on what works best for you.
The height and/or length of the pole pieces are some of the variables enumerated in the video that can affect the output sound of a pickup and it is better left to the preferences of the viewer. This video shows the procedure to make the basic modification only since there are many variations in doing it.
It was never suggested that you should not install alnico rod magnets. It is very clear that the topic, as suggested by the title, is limited to modifying a pickup's magnet from "ceramic to neodymium".
This pickup modification also works for bass pickups. Although I haven't tried it, I imagine that placing thin disc neodymium magnets on both ends of the pole pieces will sound better in basses.
If you have an Alnico pickup that does not sound good, maybe it only needs to be re-magnetized. But if you decide to change your Alnico pole pieces to Ferro magnetic pole pieces with neodymium disc magnets, make sure that your pickup has a plastic bobbin. Changing Alnico pole pieces to Ferro magnetic pole pieces with neodymium disc magnets will change the sound or "tone" of the pickup. Whether the change in sound will be better is a matter of personal appreciation. The change will depend on the number (or size) of the magnets, the position of the magnets, the length of the pole pieces, and the permeability of the pole pieces. The size and form of the coil, as well as the size of the wire and the type of insulation used, also have an effect on how the change in sound will be. A tall and narrow coil will tend to be much "brighter" than a short and fat coil if you add more disc magnets at the bottom.
It's not safe to cut or machine neodymium magnets. You buy neodymium magnets according to the specifications you need. Fortunately, the 5mm diameter magnets used in this modification are common.
just wondering, if you're punching out the pole pieces why not use Alnico 5 rods for a vintage style pickup? do you just really like the tone of neodymium?
5150stephen, A similar observation was raised by CNCTEMATIC last month. Although not directly stated, my concept of the modification was to keep it within the ambit of "cheap" and elevate the pickup to a state of "sounding great". To summarize: (1) thin disc neodymium magnets are a lot cheaper than alnico rods; (2) neodymium magnets generally do not demagnetize on their own, while alnico will degauss over time even when left alone; and (3) neodymium magnets come fully magnetized and you can use them immediately, while alnico magnets are usually shipped un-magnetized. In addition, using thin disc magnets will give you the option to experiment with different configurations of magnets and pole pieces to get the "tone" and "look" that you want. Watch my other video on magnet simulations and read the description to get some ideas (th-cam.com/video/s0OZy8w8Pr8/w-d-xo.html). If you're still not satisfied, use alnico magnet rods instead of using thin disc neodymium magnets on ferro magnetic rods. Alnico pickups have a different character than neodymium-modified pickups. I don't have a real bias or preference for using one over the other but I do have some guitars that have their alnico pickups replaced with neodymium-modified pickups. The alnico pickups were really old from the 60's and 70's and the magnets have become very weak. Instead of re-magnetizing them, I just replaced them (not just the pole pieces but the whole pickup) with neodymium-modified pickups that were just lying around. That was 5 or 6 years ago and I'm still using the neodymium-modified pickups and the Alnico pickups are still in storage.
I want to do this on my humbucker, is it better to put 1 piece of neodymium magnet on each pole piece (12 magnets), 1 neodymium on each pair touching both north and south (6 magnets), or 1 big bar of neodymium on all pole pieces?
I have tried replacing the ceramic bar magnet of a cheap humbucker (pole pieces in both coils are fixed) with disc magnets for each pole piece. I can't remember which one was better but I replaced the bar magnet back. If I remember correctly, I could only fit 3 disc magnets on the pole pieces before the backplate became unstable and difficult to mount (the magnets kept moving out of place but I did not want to use strong adhesive on the magnets). On hindsight, I think I should have also put some non-magnetic material to fill the space occupied by the bar magnet to keep the backplate stable. If you are going to replace the ceramic bar magnet with neodymium bar magnet, make sure that the polarities of the magnet are on the long edges and get the exact width that will snuggly fit inside the cavity. Handle the neodymium bar magnet carefully because it is very brittle. It will break if you drop it or if it slams hard to a magnetic material it is attracted to. The neodymium bar magnet I had was 3mm thick and the ceramic bar magnet I was supposed to replace was 5mm thick. The neodymium bar magnet broke to pieces before I could use it.
I would expect that the best simple way to make a humbucker would be to connect up north-south pairs on the underside with bars of pieces of soft steel the same size as the pole pieces so as to effectively create six horseshoe magnets (better yet might be to have U-shaped pole pieces, but those would have to be custom manufactured). I've not tried modifying my humbucker with magnets in that fashion, but having watched your video my plan is to use six separate steel bridges to carry the flux.
Forget about using custom made magnets unless you have lots of money to squander. When designing or experimenting, you will be better off if you use magnet sizes that are readily available in relatively small quantities. If you are going to "pair up" individual pole pieces of the two coils in a humbucker, either by using 6 pieces of small bars of neodymium magnets or 6 pieces of small bars of mild steel on alnico or neodymium-magnetized pole piece, you have to consider that the metal backplate, which also functions as a mounting bracket, is actually a "magnet shield" that forces the magnetic field to be narrow which makes the pickup more sensitive to string movement, which generally boosts the output. It also functions as a shield from stray fields from interfering with the field in the coils. Changing the material of the backplate has an effect on the output of the pickup. As I already mentioned, I have tried using disc magnets in a humbucker pickup with the baseplate acting as the "bridge" for the magnetic field to travel into. The sound did not appeal to me and I replaced the original ceramic magnet back but sound preferences are very subjective.
I bought some neodymium discs (5x3mm) that have the same diameter as my pole pieces, it just arrived today,they are too strong, the back plate is a little rised, maybe I will reduce the pole pieces or make a protector to cover the space. If it doesnt work I will buy a normal humbucker from a national brand, which make some clones from Duncan's. Btw this brand makes a neodymium model, but its more expensive than their alnico models, it uses 2 neo bars for each coil placed on the north and south tips, not on the middle of pick-up, but it use blades instead individual pole pieces and plastic cover to reduce the magnetic field
man, those magnets are so strong that they ignore the ceramic magnet north, I have to make sure which side is the correct, because they mix themselves easily (they connect independently of which pole, they atract to the metal pole even if its on the wrong polarity) I mean, I have to separate 6/6 and mark them.
Someone just don't like stock squire bullet pickups. I don't blame you, I would have done the same only I have a good set of stock USA fender pickups from upgrading to vintage noiseless, so I have the option to just use those. I still might modify the stock pickups just for fun.
Yes sir. I have tried every possible combination I can think of, up to 4 disc magnets in different locations. To get an idea on the effect of the changes in configuration, watch my other video on magnet simulations (th-cam.com/video/s0OZy8w8Pr8/w-d-xo.html). Read the description. I have used a spectrum analyzer but the data seems inconclusive. The best judge of sound is still your ears (not mine).
Oh, thank you so much. I think I'm going to try first with two magnets in the bottom of the polepieces. Thanks for your answer and for your videos. Good job!!!
Hi, John. Finally, I did it. The result is really awesome, I can't believe it!!! I put two magnets (5mm x 1mm) per pole. Then I tried the same with an old humbucker, this time using only one magnet per pole. The sound is not as good as I expected (too much output for my taste) but it sounds good and clear. I have greatly improved my pickups for under 3€. Thanks again for your videos and your help.
CNCTEMATIC, Alnico magnets in guitars have gained notoriety as the be-all and end-all standard of good guitar tone. That is partly due to the media hype created by pickup manufacturers and partly due to the nostalgia with the age when electric guitars were still in its infancy. On the other hand, neodymium magnets are the most powerful magnets ever invented and they are relatively new. They are so powerful that you cannot use same-sized neodymium magnet pole pieces for pickups. Per unit volume or weight, neodymium magnets are more expensive than alnico magnets. But per unit Gauss or magnet strength, neodymium magnets are cheaper than alnico magnets. You can use alnico magnets as pole pieces but its a lot more expensive than using thin disc neodymium magnets. Alnico magnets are also shipped unmagnetized, while neodymium magnets are fully magnetized and ready to use out of the box. Neodymium magnets generally do not demagnetize. Alnico magnets tend to demagnetize over time but, sometimes, that is also one of its attractions.
Thanks very much for your response! That makes sense. Especially re having to magnetise yourself. Since you seem to know quite a bit about pickups, I'll try another question: I just bought a cheapish PAF; I got it mainly for the reliced metal cover it came with, but I'm thinking of giving the pickup itself a try. It uses an Alnico II magnet, but is wound with enamel, rather than copper, pickup wire. Have you ever seen that and/or do you have an opinion about the quality of pickups wound with enamel? Cheers
I think you're confusing the insulation as being the wire itself. All magnetic guitar pickups are wound with thin copper wire, which is sometimes referred to as magnet wire. Magnet wire has thin insulation, which may be one or multiple layers of one or several types of polymers. In the early days of the electric guitar, magnet wires used for pickups were commonly coated with either enamel, lacquer or varnish. Today, various synthetic resins are used as insulation depending on the application of the wire. The type of insulation of the magnet wire affects the tone character of the pickup because different insulators have different dielectric properties and are applied in varying thickness, which affects the electrical properties coil, acting as a resistor-inductor-capacitor (RLC) circuit. The insulator, acting as a dielectric, constitutes the capacitor in the RLC circuit. Generally, pickup coils with enamel coated wires tend to have the lower frequencies emphasized, or to be more precise, its high frequencies are rolled off. This is often described as having a "dark" or "warm" sound, which is typical of vintage pickups. When alnico 2 magnets are used, which has low gauss or magnetic level, the output of the pickup is low or soft. This makes it sound "mellow". I hope this explanation wasn't too technical.
Hey, thanks again! That is very useful. I hope you're right. I haven't actually seen the wire, I'm just going by the sales description, which says "Specs: - Aged PAF Humbucker, Bridge Position.-DC - 8.5k Bridge (52mm polepiece spacing) - Alnico II Magnets - *Enamel Pickup Wire* (etc)" What you're saying makes sense, and I'm guessing is right. If so that would make the product more attractive to me. It's odd that they don't say "enamel *coated* pickup wire". Anyway, many thanks for taking the time to explain, cheers.
"Aged" is sometimes a euphemism for "weak" or "dull". Combined with the 8.5k and alnico 2 specs, it looks like a recipe for a muddy pickup but I hope I'm wrong. Let me know how it turns out.
I got my magnets from online sellers in China. You can get them from eBay or Amazon. I was informed that they are also available at Walmart but they are more expensive there and they use imperial measurements instead of metric.
Neodymium magnets are very powerful but considering that the ones used in this modification are tiny 5mm diameter x 1mm thickness disc magnets that are positioned at least 20mm away from the string, there is negligible effect on string vibration. With the setup used in the video, the Gauss level at the string is about the same as an Alnico 2 pole piece magnet. Even if you stack 2 disc magnets, its strength at the string is not enough to cause serious aberration.
Ok, after I see some of you trying to make such thing like NEO single coil pickups I am need to say couple of thinking after my experiences. First, what is finally the mystery of branded - especially Fender single coil pickups? Answer is - simplicity of construction, but in comparison with cheap single coil ones, please, finally pay attention to the following. If you saw disassembled original Fender pickups without windings, you can see naked magnetic rods placed trough holes of the top and bottom fiber plates. But, if you look at cheap ones, magnetic rods are placed inside of holes of casted plastic bobbin which surrounding magnetic rods with thickness of about (whole) 1mm. So, on Fender pickups wire is wound directly on the rods, but on cheaps is wound 1mm away from rods all around. That space nearest to the rods, is the most precious place for the windings, because for the pickup coil there is most homogeneous magnetic field - just imagine how many windings of 0,06mm wire can be placed in that space. There pickup windings take clearest and strongest sound, so pickup has recognizable balanced sounding, and this is for sure main consideration about branded single coil pickups. The same story is about ceramic pickup, but for the general consideration is good to mention difference of shapes of magnetic fields between ceramic and alnico magnetic constructions of single coil pickups, which also has influence on sound. If you replace ceramic magnet with small NEO disc ones on cheap Chinese single coil pickups so, you will get sound something closer to Fender alnico pickups because magnetic field shape will be something closer also. Better change you will get if you cut off existing rods on half and place the same NEO magnet on the middle. But, significant change you will get if you consider what I said above ...
There are several ways Fender manufactures its pickups. As you described, the Alnico-flatwork pickup is the defining standard of a Fender single coil. But there are also Fender pickups that are made with ceramic bar and slugs, similar to the "cheap" third party pickups. There are also P90-style pickups made by Fender. Presently, there are a slew of "noiseless" pickups from Fender. The part of the magnetic field that greatly influences the sound of the pickup is the external part of the field that passes through the strings. Defining or predicting how that external field propagates will greatly influence the "tone" of the pickup. In the description in my other video (th-cam.com/video/s0OZy8w8Pr8/w-d-xo.html), I briefly discussed the effect of magnet placement in the pole pieces. Defining the ideal tone is very subjective and I would refrain from making a recommendation on what is the best configuration but I have my preferences. Pickup construction involving magnet-coil-string coupling affects the output "tone" of the pickup. But another reason why Alnico pickups have their distinctive sound is also due to the magnetic permeability of the pole piece material, the Alnico rod itself. In modifying a cheap pickup, changing the stock pole pieces made from mild steel to high permeability hardened steel will further change or "improve" the tone of the pickup. Watch my other video (th-cam.com/video/Zy_DmaYppns/w-d-xo.html) and read the description and comments.
Disregard on certain importance of my consideration, still I did not expected answers much, especially that fast, so thank you! Anyhow, I addressed it to all interested for the "mystery" of simplest, but branded single coil pickups. The main first part of my comment was not only about Alnico, than of course Ceramic single coil pickups also, and I am was not about considering finesses in any of pickup materials, magnetic constructions ... which of course affect the sound, but not so significantly, like o. e. guitar wood do not affect much. I am not sure what was intention of many branded manufacturers of single coil pickups they considering what I am talking about, or not. But, we can see that practically none of them wound magnetic wire over plastic bobbin, than directly over the rods. From whatever reason, they just following basic original Fender construction. For about electromagnetic pickups, Fender together with Gibson provided long ago almost nonchangeable standards, considering electronic path of amplifiers, ... but also many other nonchangeable things are there, like o. e. - the top of magnetic construction nearest to the guitar wires must not be too strong, otherwise would affect the guitar intonation. Or, adding more pickup windings will affect the intensity of pickup signal and tone most significantly, but on the other hand there is limit because tone will became more and more muddy - what is contrary of this initial intention to get stronger pickup output, but with clear tone like basic construction has. Exactly this addressing my point I am repeating, that main part of pickup windings is just nearest to the magnetic rods, where is achieved most clear and intensive sounding.
It is actually a terrible idea to wind directly on the metal pole pieces. That is why old-style Fender pickups are so inconsistent -- it's better to have a thin layer of electrical insulation like paper tape between the wire and the poles or, better yet, to put thin-walled plastic bushings on the two outer poles. Either way, you prevent shorts between the inner windings and the poles (the insulation of magnet wire is very thin and not reliable when in contact with a big metal object under winding tension) and also limit capacitance between those windings the pole piece surfaces.
Of course it is not so good to wind literally directly on the metal rods, and exactly - that IS the reason why many of Fender vintage pickups become inconsistent. It is because of influence of time with moisture, oil, any dirts, that corrosion appear exactly where wire touch the metal rods and broke it. I heard Fender applied thin layer of lacquer on the rods before windings to isolate them, but it did not much solved the problem. if you put THIN paper or any thin isolation there it would not change original sounding in general, but if there is thick material like mostly in cheap Chinese pickups it will be exactly like I described. Capacitance between wires and rods is not much considerable also, especially because rods are not grounded. To say, roughly and simplest made pickup would be the best sounding one, most solved pickup would not so. But, believe me people do so many things like o.e. even make pickups "without" feedback that is not poured in wax. You can always make some enough good compromise in design between sound quality or durability, or to go in any of extremes, but it is just on you which kind of result you want. Cheers
I couldn't find the right size on Amazon but I looked on ebay for 5mm by 1mm sized magnets and here's what I found, if you want them now, here's a US listing for 50 for $7: www.ebay.com/itm/192270112346
I am happy for you that you can buy a new set of pickups whenever you want to. But not everybody is as fortunate as you are. For those who don't have much to spend, or just don't want to spend much, on a new set of cheap alnico pickups, not even on a second hand set, they might consider the procedure in my video as an option, or a solution. It's still a lot cheaper and the result is quite noticeable, to say the least. You might also want to consider sending me your old ceramic pickups if your are just going to throw them away. I can use them for other ideas I have for pickup modification.
Actually John, I'm usually flat broke, but I find plenty of less-expensive pickups that may not be Seymour Duncan or Lindy Fralin, but seem perfectly adequate. In fairness, I'm not playing lots of gigs any more, just jammin' for my own amusement; and I don't change pickups every week. But again, thanks for a most interesting video, I learned a lot!
An extremely powerful magnetic field can interfere with string vibration when the energy of the vibration is dissipating. It can cause unnatural harmonics. But the magnets used in this modification are tiny 5mm diameter discs with 1mm thickness placed at the bottom of the pickup. With this setup, the strength of the magnetic field at the strings is almost the same as an Alnico 2 pole piece. Needless to say, the effect is negligible. You can use Alnico pole pieces, instead of using neodymium disc magnets on stock pole pieces, but Alnicos are much more expensive and they have to be magnetized first before you install the pickup in a guitar. Also bear in mind that Alnico pole pieces would sound different from neodymiums on pole pieces because they propagate magnetic field differently. Experiment on which setup is better for you. With neodymium disc magnets, you have a lot of options for modification to suit your tastes, like using a different material or size for pole pieces (watch my other video th-cam.com/video/Zy_DmaYppns/w-d-xo.html). You can also experiment on the number and placement of the disc magnets, at the bottom, on top, or any place in between (watch my video th-cam.com/video/s0OZy8w8Pr8/w-d-xo.html). Pickup windings have a very significant influence in the sound of a pickup. But modifying the windings is tedious and entails a bigger expense than modifying the magnets. The modification presented in the video is a cheap and simple alternative to effectively "improve" or change the sound of an otherwise bland cheap ceramic pickup. But don't attempt this modification on an expensive name-brand hyped-up ceramic pickup because you will be better off if you sell it unmodified.
There is one thing you didn't take into account, that stronger magnets also mean a greater force of attraction of the strings. Thus, the string resonates for a shorter time and the sustain is weak. In these pickups, everything must be properly selected so that the result meets expectations. A long time ago I also thought that if I wound 20 thousand turns, the voltage would be very high. And I was disappointed because these coils were not suitable for anything, least of all for mounting in a guitar.
there are a couple things you failed to consider. first, the magnets used in the mod are very small and, therefore, they are not as powerful as you might have imagined. second, the magnets are placed with a considerable distance from the strings. thus, the gauss level at the strings would be a little less than an Alnico 3 pole piece. it is not enough to cause unwanted harmonics or "wolf tones". it might also interest you that i have done this modification several times and the results of my modifications have been very satisfactory. this matter has already been discussed several times in the comments and are kept there for reference.
TheRedhawke, You can use any brand of cheap (cheapest) plastic varnish. Don't use expensive super durable varieties like those made from polyurethane. Its purpose is merely to keep the disc magnets from sliding. The force of the magnet is strong enough to make it stick firmly to the pole pieces, as long as there is good magnetic coupling between them, that is, the point of contact is the maximum surface area possible. As an alternative, you can use water based enamel paint or white school/craft glue. Apply them as coating over the magnets and not as adhesive between the magnets and the pole pieces. They stick quite well to metals and plastic and they peel off when you scrape them. But I prefer using plastic varnish because it sets quickly so it doesn't flow in to areas that I don't want it to go and, when I want to further modify the pickup, it melts in denatured alcohol so it doesn't harm the plastic bobbin or the magnet wire insulation, if it ever gets in the coil. Essentially, you can use anything that sticks well to metals and plastic, but is easy to remove, except snot, boogers, and everything in between. Good luck on your project!
I love your video...not just informative but also entertaining. And because of the natural element of the countryside (I live in NYC) it was to me even more enjoyable. By the way I am Italian.
A strong magnetic field will cause unnatural harmonic overtones, aside from affecting the sound envelope and sustain (decay). But because of the distance of the small disc neodymium magnets from the strings, the field strength at the strings is not enough to cause serious sound aberrations. With the setup described in this video, the magnetic strength at the strings is almost the same as an Alnico 2 magnet pole piece. Placing the disc magnet in the middle of the pole piece will increase the magnetic field at the strings and will also change how the field propagates through the strings.
I was reading the claim of plagiarism. Perhaps the way that both parties demonstrated was the best and only way to achieve the intended outcome of boosting pickup output in the cheapest method possible. I’m sure many ideas and resulting processes are created independently of each other.
Wire size and the number of winding does affect the output of the pickup. Simply put, the coil is responsible for "translating" the magnetic field variations into an electrical signal. This modification changes the magnetic field propagation of the pole pieces which changes how the strings affect the field variations in the coil. But it's much more complicated than that.
superglue dissolves with acetone... use superglue. acetone is found in nail polish remover, because nail polish chemically similar to super glue. in fact, even the non acetone type will work, but it takes forever. (just buying acetone from lowes is better though)
My main objection in using superglue is that it hinders you from safely further modifying the pickup. It needs a very strong solvent to undo it. Acetone is a solvent that can dissolve superglue but it can also dissolve almost any type of plastic, such as the plastic bobbin and the coating on the magnet wire. Just one drop of acetone on the plastic bobbin is sufficient to soften it and will most likely deform it. Less than a drop of acetone seeping into the coil is enough to cause a short circuit between the wires. If you are absolutely certain on your abilities that when you apply acetone it will only flow on the superglue, then by all means use superglue and apply acetone if you desire to do further modification. I have a method of applying acetone on superglue which will probably not affect the bobbin or the coil but it is tedious, time consuming and not 100% accurate. Unlike you, I would rather err on the side of caution. It's also a good idea to match the type of your adhesive to the work it is expected to do. In this project, the magnetic strength of the neodymium is sufficient to make it stick to the pole pieces. However, lateral force applied to the junction can cause the magnet to move out of place. Thus, the need for a process or substance to keep it in place. I suggested using plastic varnish mainly for two reasons: (1) it sets and cures very fast, and (2) it is strong enough for the purpose it will serve. There are other alternatives to varnish. It will do you a lot of good to think and analyze what to use rather than go ahead with the first thing that comes to your mind. Superglue is an excellent adhesive but it is not advisable for this project. Strongest is not always the best. Superglue is not chemically similar to nail polish. Superglue (cyanoacrylate) is more similar to acrylic plastic. Nail polish is more similar to lacquer. Good luck on using superglue.
... you got upset when i said that? cmon man, don't be so salty. i didn't think about the possiblility of super glue affecting the plastic, although i doubt it would anyway. plastic varnish is not as readily available as super glue, and in order to use superglue without risking any mess, you can just pop out the pole pieces and glue the circle magnets to them while they are still seperated from the rest of the components. after rereading the original comment i put, i realize that i could have said it better, but i am kinda a douche when i don't let myself sleep. lol
You directly contradicted what I have suggested in my video and I merely explained my position. I did not even disagree with you that you can use superglue. Just because I did not totally conform with your suggestion does not mean that I am upset. You have to understand that this is my tutorial video and I feel compelled to make an explanation on what I have mentioned in the video that you feel is not correct. Don't you think that I am well within my prerogative to defend my idea? Actually, I have previously addressed similar concerns like yours. It would have been easier for me to refer you to what I have already explained before but I extended you the courtesy of a direct reply. I endeavored to explain with sufficient detail and you're faulting me for that? Anyway, if you don't appreciate my explanation or method, shouldn't it be more appropriate for you to make a separate independent tutorial using your method? Otherwise, you should be more open to comment and discussion when you propose a different view. If you read my reply, I said that you can use superglue but be careful when you decide to undo it. By itself, superglue will have very little or no effect on the plastic bobbin or the wire. If you're not going to further modify the pickup, then using superglue is fine. It's when you decide to undo it that it poses a problem. Applying acetone, as you suggested, is extremely risky and you have to be very careful. But, as I have said, if you can be precise in how you can apply acetone, you can go ahead and use acetone. But as for me, I would rather not risk it and, therefore, I do not recommend it. I have used superglue and acetone before and I know what I am talking about through experience. Regarding your new suggestion to take the pole pieces out of the bobbin and apply superglue, keep in mind that neodymium magnets are very powerful and can be unwieldy even though the ones used in this project are tiny. Quite often, they will literally jump and snap to any material they are attracted to. If you can control the amount of glue you apply and prevent it from splattering when the magnet snaps to it, I suppose that what you are suggesting may be fine. But you have to work very fast centering the magnet on the pole pieces without getting it on your hands because superglue sets very fast. I have to admit that I have not tried this method simply because it is so much easier to brush varnish over the magnets after aligning them in place, just like what I did in the video. But there is still the problem of separating a superglued magnet when you decide to modify the pickup again. Even if you soak the pole piece with the neodymium superglued to it in acetone, it is still extremely difficult to separate them. You can try applying strong lateral force on the joint after applying acetone but this method sometimes chips the magnet or it may even break it. Neodymium magnets are very brittle and the ones used here are quite thin. You can use a blade or a knife to pry them apart but that is too risky and may also chip or break the magnet. Young kids are also watching this video and I do not want to expose them to unnecessary danger. Finally, the purpose of using adhesive to the magnet is not to make it stick to the pole pieces. The strength of the magnet is sufficient for that purpose. You only need the adhesive to ensure that the magnet stays in place. A light adhesive that can stick to metals and plastic will be good enough for this. In the video, I also placed tape over the magnets for an added measure to keep the magnets in place. As an alternative to plastic varnish, I have suggested elsewhere in the comments that you can use white glue (craft glue) or enamel paint (preferably water based). However, using white glue or water based paint needs more time to set. If you just exerted some effort to read the comments you would know. Expressing yourself without the benefit of your full faculties, especially when you are opposing a well researched procedure, is foolishness. The better part of wisdom is to keep quiet when you are not sure of what you are asserting and verify your thoughts before saying something not clear to you.
yeah... i just recommend superglue because it is something that can be found abundantly, and it is reletively cheap and very versitile for many applications. however, you are right that plastic varnish works better. i apoligize for being a douche, but the reason why i oppose using plastic varnish is because it is harder to find; i couldn't find it at my hardware stores. superglue on the other hand can be found at gas stations. i didn't take into account the safety concerns with superglue, but compared to what i normally handle, superglue is friendly... i suppose that sometimes friction caused between two opposing ideas can help polish one's own ideas... you are smart, but the way you typed this was kind of condensending, which kind of suggests that i wouldn't have recieved the same depth in the reply as i would have had i been nicer...
I've been reading my replies and I did not find anything condescending in what I have said. You may have considered some of my statements as inappropriate by themselves but if you read them in context, I believe they are fair. In any event, I did not intend to offend you.
Great video, but I get tired of other peoples rebuttals trying to show off their knowledge of electronics. I know you have good working intelligence of electronics when you mentioned the reference to an RLC circuit. Good thinking. Now as far as maybe weakening the magnets slightly, to me it doesn't matter, I don't particularly like an over-wound or hot pickup, what matters to me is the tone, and that is the scope of this video. If I loose some magnetism but improve my tone for me, thats fine and I see an overall improvement in the whole pup circuit. Thanks.
Nail polish is usually made from lacquer and it gives a strong coat to hold the neodymium magnets in place. The problem with nail polish, and lacquer in general, is that it requires a strong solvent, lacquer thinner or acetone. to remove it, in the event that you may want to further modify your pickup. There is a danger that the acetone or lacquer thinner will melt the plastic bobbin or, worse, dissolve the insulating coat of the magnet wire of the pickups if it seeps in the coil. You can try water based enamel paint or wood glue (elmer's glue), although I haven't used these for pickups. These will provide a strong thin coat and will peel when you scrape them off. The idea is to apply them as coating over the magnets and the bobbin, and not as an adhesive between the neodymium and the pole pieces. I guess, anything that sticks well to metals and plastic but is quite easy to remove will do... except boogers. Good luck with your project. Merry Christmas!
Thanks! I still don't have a spare guitar to make recordings of a before and after the modification. See my other video on magnet simulations th-cam.com/video/s0OZy8w8Pr8/w-d-xo.html and read the description to get an idea on what to expect.
wouldn't the bar style neodymium magnets work as well with less fiddling for orientation and placement? Great video, BTW. I loved the rooster's solo at the end!
I did not have an opportunity to experiment at length with bar magnets because early on, my neodymium bar magnets (60mm x 10mm x 2mm) broke. The concept I had in mind for attaining substantial improvement is to alter the propagation of the magnetic field. There is a very discernible distinction between pickups with a single bar magnet and individual magnet pole pieces. But to answer your question, using a single neodymium bar magnet will increase the volume output but will not substantially change the frequency response or "tone" of the pickup. Keep in mind that an increase in volume output is usually perceived as an improvement in "tone".
In the post script of the video, I mentioned that I don't have a before and after sound clips of the modification. I have been asked several times for audio samples of this neodymium magnet modification and I have been planning to make audio samples but I don't have a spare guitar and ceramic pickups to work on right now. I have also been having problems recording audio in my PCs. In the description of my other video on magnet simulation, which is a sequel to this video, I described the effect of the different configurations of the modification. If you're not prepared to believe that the modification will work out well for you and you're not willing to take the risk, I guess you will have to wait until I am able to make sample recordings. But consider this: the modification is easy, cheap and reversible, unless you follow somebody else's advice and use super glue.
If you ever do make the video of the sound, do a "before and after" where all three pickups have been given added magnets. I would love to hear if sustain is still there...
"Improve" is a relative term. The change will be noticeable but whether you will like it or not is another matter. If this is any indication of the quality of the change, it has been over a year since this video was posted and, as far as I can recall, nobody has commented that the modification was not good and only one has confirmed to have made the modification and had a good experience. I have not allowed or have deleted a few comments that contained too much profanity and as far as I can remember, they were really not relevant. In any event, it's up to you to evaluate the risk and decide whether this is worth your time, effort and cheap pickups.
There will be no appreciable change in "tone" if the ceramic magnet is not removed. The essence of the modification is to change the shape of the magnetic field propagation, which will change the "tone" of the pickup.
Even a 1x5mm neodymium disc has a fuktonne of magnetic pull compared to a typical ferrite (ceramic) bar magnet -- but if you don't find that excessive and hear a significant improvement, by all means go for it. I wouldn't bother myself -- a lot depends the coil being properly wound and no magnet change is going to fix a poorly wound coil.
The gauss level of the stock pole pieces (mild steel) opposite the location of an N52 neodymium disc magnet is roughly the same as the strength of Alnico 2 pole pieces, or maybe a little less. Perhaps you could share the conditions of your setup since your results are in great disparity with mine. I am intrigued at how a small disc 5mm x 1mm neodymium magnet at the bottom of a pickup can have greater strength than a ceramic magnet, measured at the top of the pickup, near the strings. A pickup is an inductor, which is essentially a coil and a core. The characteristics of the core will determine the behavior of the magnetic field. It is the magnetic field that is in direct "contact" with the vibrating strings. The interaction between the string and the magnetic field is what is ultimately detected by the coil. The characteristics of the coil will determine how it will discriminate the changes in the field. The characteristics of both the coil and the core affects the the output of the pickup. In fact, the equation for the inductance of a coil includes the physical characteristics of the core, its size and material, as well as the physical characteristics of the coil. A change in the size of the pole pieces, physical size or field strength, will change the characteristics of the pickup in the same manner if the wire size or number of turns in the coil is changed.
You have one very typical misunderstanding of how pickups work. There are in fact only two basic kinds of electromagnetic transducers, moving coil transducers and moving magnet transducers. Guitar pickups are the latter type, and the moving magnets are the strings. The function of the permanent magnets in guitar pickups is to magnetize the strings so they in turn can function as moving magnets, thus inducing electrical currents in the coil that correspond to the motion of those strings. Your definition of an inductor is also incorrect -- an inductor doesn't need a core to have inductance, the presence of a core (which can actually be either inside or outside the coil) is simply a way to increase inductance without adding more turns of wire to the coil. The composition of the core material determines the linearity of the pickup's frequency response -- an unhardened "mild" steel core results in a pickup with some high frequency fall-off vs. hardened alloys like silicon steel that allow more high end response. The alnico variants used in Fender-style slug core pickups have far less permeability than ferrous poles and are quite non-linear in their contribution to inductance, which results in the rather uneven frequency response that contributes to the "Fendery" sound. The total energy product of a magnet has two components, much like electricity has voltage and current. The string damping effect comes from one of those components, magnetic attaction measured in gauss, the other is demagnetization force, measured in oersted. It is the latter that contributes to the electrical output of the pickup, with the former essentially being an unavoidable nuisance. The balance between the two components in rare earth magnets is favorable to that respect, but the total energy product is very high, so it makes sense to limit that either by controlling the size of magnets like you did by using very small discs or by other engineering measures that accomplish a reduction in the total amount of energy magnetizing the strings. The late Bill Lawrence's "Microcoil" design is a great example of a guitar pickup skillfully engineered to make optimum use of neodymium without resorting to tiny individual magnets like you've used, an approach that would be too delicate and time consuming for efficient production. www.wildepickups.com/images/ddce0d3d0b169381f97ece44a4c11a84.jpg
The function of the magnet is not to magnetize the strings but to envelope the coil in a magnetic field. While it is true that the strings become magnetized when the magnetic field from the magnet passes through it, it is merely derived from the field of the magnet and it is temporary. What is inevitably detected by the coil is the motion of the field, its compression and expansion, that is within the coil from the magnetic pole pieces and not from the magnetized strings. The magnetic field propagates in bands or lines and they follow the path of least resistance or the path that is most magnetically permeable. One peculiar feature of the magnetic field lines is that they propagate in quantized levels, meaning that they do not intersect and they do not leap from one level to another. The field lines that reach the strings will flow through the length of the string until they loop back. The magnetic field lines will pass through it until it is saturated. When the string moves, the field lines that are flowing in it will also move. Since the field lines do not intersect, movement of the field lines in the string will cause all the field lines to move simultaneously in a sort of a quantum entanglement. This will cause movement of the electrons in the coil in relation to the movement of the magnetic field. The fluctuating movement of flow of electrons creates a fluctuating voltage level which appears as AC after passing through a DC blocking capacitor in the amplifier, guitar or measuring equipment such as a voltmeter or oscilloscope. Without the DC blocking capacitor, the output of the pickup is a fluctuating DC signal. Your explanation of the function of the magnet in a pickup will not be able to explain the following situations. Put a magnet close to the pole pieces such that they repel each other. The pole pieces cannot be said that it is magnetizing the other magnet and the field of the said magnet cannot reach the coil of the pickup because it is being repelled by the magnetic field of the pole pieces. But when you move that magnet, it will create a signal output from the coil. The reason is that the compression and expansion of the magnetic field of the pole pieces caused by the movement of the other magnet is creating a signal from the coil. Now, let's change the setup. Remove the pole pieces and place small disc magnets or a ceramic bar magnet on top of the pickup such that it is between the coil and the strings. It cannot be said that the magnetized string is creating or inducing a field in the coil since the magnet is between the coil and the string and its magnetic field is stronger and closer to the coil. But when the string vibrates, it will create a signal from the coil. Again, this can be explained by the movement of the field of the magnet that is within the coil caused by the moving field in the string at the opposite side. Since the magnetic field is propagating in all directions from its poles looping from one end to the other, it is susceptible to be "disturbed" by stray fields from all directions. One solution to this problem is to place a "magnet shield" to redirect and control the magnetic field, to a certain degree, around the pickup. A permeable metal plate that is a little larger than the coil placed at the bottom of the pickup will change the shape of the magnetic field and reduce noise but it will also change the frequency response of the coil. The base plate in a tele pickup functions as a magnet shield. The very nature of how inductors work and how they are constructed shows that they have cores. All inductors have cores. The absence of a tangible object does not mean that it does not have a core, it only means that it has an "air core" which is a core with mu0. A plastic or ceramic core is considered an air core. You also have misconceptions about the function of the core. The presence of a magnetically permeable material as a core is not merely to increase the inductance of the coil, which will change the frequency response of the coil. Its shape and material will determine its efficiency in transferring or converting energy and also its susceptibility to stray fields and noise. Higher permeability pole pieces appear to have a "clearer definition". I have tried using hardened steel as pole pieces and they have more pronounced high midrange frequencies. With high permeability pole pieces, it is advisable to keep them short. The only problem with hardened steel is that it is almost impossible to cut and form them with ordinary tools. One solution I found is to use hardened steel set screws which you can buy according to the diameter and length that you need, or at least close to what you need. Dimension measurements are available in imperial and metric units. I have another video on this type of modification (th-cam.com/video/Zy_DmaYppns/w-d-xo.html). In my other video on magnetic field simulation (th-cam.com/video/s0OZy8w8Pr8/w-d-xo.html), it shows how the location of the disc magnet can have an effect on the "tone" of the pickup. Knowing how the field propagates in free air or space and through the string, showing which portions of it may have a greater effect on the field, in conjunction with the properties of the coil, can tell you what the characteristics of the pickup will have. In the description, I described how this relates to the output, as I perceived it. I even suggested that placing the magnet in the middle of the pole piece might be the ideal location for a disc magnet. I have tried this and I find it very appealing.
My understanding of how a pickup functions as a transducer comes from a world-famous expert -- one of only two people to have designed pickups for both Gibson and Fender -- with whom I studied for over a decade on and off. A good deal of your verbose explanation(s) apparently comes from trial and error experimentation with a rather incomplete theoretical background in the pertinent electrodynamics. As a result, there is a combination of accurate information -- e.g. different core materials result in different frequency response curves in otherwise identical coils -- and misconceptions/generalizations in what you write. E.g., it is conventional to call a coil without a ferromagnetic core an "air coil," but this is misleading because such a coil would function exactly the same in a vacuum -- IOW, it actually doesn't have a core that functions as such. FYI, you can buy silicon steel, suitable stainless steels, and even very highly permeable permalloy in shapes suitable for pole pieces right off the shelf, so there's no need to cut or machine anything in order to use such materials in a pickup. I will not bother correcting you anymore -- being nearly 70 years old I have neither the time nor the ambition to be seen as a pickup guru to the U-Toob masses. Moreover, one doesn't have to possess a thorough understanding of this stuff to make a good pickup -- guys like Seymour Duncan, not to mention old-timers like Leo Fender and Seth Lover, knew a good deal less than you do and have succeeded in making world famous pickups anyway. Good luck -- IMO you stand a better chance than most. :-)
Sir, your reply was sent to my spam folder by TH-cam and I only discovered it just now and approved it. I really do not relish in describing myself but your reply leaves me no choice. I would like to apologize now as I foresee this as another "verbose explanation." How I wish it was true that what I know comes from trial and error experimentation because that would mean that I have access to sophisticated equipment to test what I have described, such as manifestations of quantized levels and quantum entanglement. These are concepts in theoretical physics and quantum mechanics which an average learner like me can only read from textbooks. I am not tutored by only one mentor so I do not carry intellectual prejudices. I have read many journals, articles and publications and papers from university libraries or their department resources that are available online from Princeton, Cambridge, Harvard, MIT, etc. You can Google these papers. I have also read a lot of books. It is rather interesting that you find that I have an "incomplete theoretical background in the pertinent electrodynamics" but what is it in electricity and electronics, analog or digital, as a field of study, that you find related to pickups, aside from the study of inductors and electromagnetism, which I have not already discussed? What aspect of inductors and electromagnetism, and magnetism in general, that you are expecting to be discussed which I have not touched upon? With all due respect, sir, I have not found any article, publication or paper, even those that have been archived, that supports your description of the operation of a pickup. Perhaps, you misinterpreted or misunderstood what has been conveyed to you. Or you may have drawn strained conclusions from illustrations depicting a magnetized string over a coil. You are correct in so far as the string is magnetized but you are totally wrong to say that it is the magnetic field of the string that is inducing EMF in the coil. There is nothing to support such a conclusion. In the first place, it is the magnetic flux of the pole pieces that is causing the string to be magnetized. And, second, the coil is surrounded by the magnetic flux of the pole pieces. It stands to reason, therefore, any induced EMF in the coil would be coming from the magnetic flux of the pole pieces. For example, sir, this paper from the Physics Department of Princeton (www.physics.princeton.edu/~mcdonald/examples/guitar.pdf) (link was provided by GCKelloch in our discussion below), in presenting a very intriguing and interesting pickup phenomenon, follows the model I described. I did not make up my description of how the pickup works but merely simplified it, omitting to mention that the string is magnetized preferring, instead, to dwell on the fact that magnetic flux is flowing through it, which is the same thing but avoiding the misconception that the string is an independent magnet. Assuming without conceding that your model is correct, in the two case studies I described in my previous comment, you failed to explain those phenomena using the model you are espousing. The world-famous expert on pickups you relied upon cannot argue here to support his thesis but you are not also supporting him by failing to properly describe the properties of his model to explain the case studies. Perhaps you can present a paper that he wrote related to this matter, or link to it, or a discussion involving it, so that I can better appreciate where you are coming from. I would also like to point out, up to this time, you have not yet explained how a tiny neodymium disc magnet on an iron rod (pole piece) can have a magnetic strength greater than a ceramic bar magnet on a pickup. I respectfully submit that you have now even contradicted your earlier statement that, "no magnet change is going to fix a poorly wound coil". Sir, you mentioned that I have misconceptions and I stated mere generalizations but its unfortunate that you failed to mention which ones are these from my "verbose explanation(s)", leaving me no opportunity to explain and expound on those supposed generalizations or misconceptions. However, you mentioned that the "air core" that I referred to in my reply is a misconception because it is the same as vacuum, and therefore, according to you, it is the same as no core. I agree that air core is the same as vacuum and its permeability actually presumes a state of vacuum. However, that state of permeability (vacuum) is still a physical state that describes such core. It is still a core but its value is mu0. Textbook authors refer to it as an "air core" and not as a "vacuum core". In fact, plastic and ceramic cores are considered air cores but they are not actually vacuum. As I have already said, coils have cores by the very nature of how they function. An air core or vacuum core has mu0 permeability but it is still a core. All books treat air cores as real cores, integral to the function of the inductor. I am not trying to project myself as a "guru" of any sort. I am not even an expert by any stretch. I am continuously learning as I try to understand so many things by reading and listening to lectures. Although I still have a few more ideas on pickups, I have no plans to go into serious pickup research and/or production. I am only trying to find a way to improve crap and/or scrap pickups. I am merely explaining aspects of the video I presented. But suffice it to say that technical matters can be simplified. As Einstein said, if you cannot explain it to a bar maid, you do not understand it, or something to that effect. Both of us agree that one doesn't have to posses great wealth of information and knowledge to make or modify a pickup. That much is our common ground. I think my video presentation has sufficiently demonstrated that.
where are the 'before' and 'after' clips (recordings) of your guitar to compare the change in sound? ... otherwise how do we know its worth doing this??
Doing his modification may not be worth your while. I am not advising nor suggesting that everybody should do the pickup modification shown in this video. I am merely describing a procedure on how to make a cheap pickup sound great, that is according to my perception. Sound preferences are very subjective. It is intended for those who do not like the sound of their pickup but do not want to spend a lot of money. There is no guarantee that you will like the result of the modification. Even if there is a comparative data of the modification, there is no guarantee that the result will be the same. Do not do the modification if you are uncomfortable with modifying your pickup. Do the modification at your own risk.
Is there a video where we can hear and watch the result.... ? 😊
John, not only your video is excellent but also your replies are highly informative and a must for everybody intending to accomplish this type of mod. Thanks a lot for sharing your knowledge!
Thank you! Great tutorial. I've upgraded two guitars so far. To save your iron, use a piece of parchment paper to cover the surface before melting the wax on the pickup. The plastic varnish is genius!
The method works well. Two things: I agree that using the iron will deteriorate the bar magnet, so keep that in mind if you intend to use it again. Additionally, be aware that some strat-style coils are wound directly around the pole pieces, so remove them at your own risk!
Pretty cool. Alternatively, you could drill 6 magnet-sized holes in a popsicle stick that match the pole piece spacing, and glue the ends on the pickup. Cover the magnets with some strong tape. It would make disassembly a lot easier if you decided to re-use the magnets.
Wow ! I am totally amazed . I have had a few guitars with ceramic bar pickups , I always bought new alnico pickups and gave away the old pickups . I guess I never considered exactly how pickups are put together ! Thanks for opening up my eyes ! I wish I would have seen this video 30 years ago ! It would have saved me a ton of money ! I would love to hear before and after sound sound tests . Thank You so so much ! After watching this , the possibilites are endless for custom pickups and magnet combinations . You can't screw anything up because the stock bar magnets sound so bad I usually just discard them !
I came here for ideas and left with knowledge and a good laugh after reading a few idiotic comments with absolute god level responses. Definitely got a sub as well. Thank you sir, I recently (in the last week) started messing with guitars again. I can’t play for the life of me but I plan on learning, it started with me buying a guitar for my 11yo daughter and now I’m the owner of 4 partially clapped out old guitars that I plan on giving a new life. Her tele is staying untouched other than her playing it but mine I plan on making into better instruments with complete disregard of originality. I love the hack and I’ll definitely be trying it once I get a new set of pickups just in case I screw something up.
Did I miss the part where you made sure the magnets were reverse polarity on the middle pickup or did the simple act of holding them in place on the clean side do that for you?
Excellent instructional! Thanks because I have a parts box full off old strat pups and was about to order a set of neo's. Awesome!
Great! Watch my other video on magnet simulation th-cam.com/video/qmNLeBWowp8/w-d-xo.html and read the description to know what to expect. Try the other configurations and go for the sound that you like. Good luck!
great...but a sound test would have been nice
yes, before and after, we can not be sure if he bettered then or not
he didn't test the bars for N/S configuration before installing. Likely to sound STRANGE
@@dehved hope it gets fixed...would love to hear it
The channel heavymetalATC already did this comparison, he does a few different magnet setups, pretty much it ends up sounding like an AlNiCo with more bass response
I tried this with some spare pickups I had. I had to be very careful with the string height as I was getting some very pronounced wolf tones. The plain G was worst, particularly if using a 'vintage stagger' pole height pattern. 5 level and a very slightly low G worked well.
I had better results with some alnico rod (4.95mm x 17mm) that I had lying around. it's available on ebay but a little pricier compared to neodymium.
I enjoyed watching this most interesting video, and I have to say, with all respect to other videos, I appreciated your LACK of narrative, relying only on the subtitles to describe your actions. So many others get very redundant trying to make their points; one's tempted to fast forward and say, "I GET it! I GET it!" There was something relaxing about having the open sound, complete with roosters and other great critters, but minus the talking-it-out, that makes it more like looking over your shoulder without being "talked AT." KUDOS! And a great procedure seemingly made fairly simple.
My only question: You're clearly very detail-oriented and precise. I appreciated the Popsickle stick precaution in removing the magnets, for example. And cleaning the iron later... great! Having done this procedure as many times as you have, when tapping out the pole pieces, I'm surprised you haven't made some sort of a simple jig to support the underside edges of a pickup (of course allowing space for the poles to come through) in a vise (or something), to hold the pickup MUCH more securely at that point, rather than merely using the loosely-open jaws of some channel locks. That was pretty wobbly for what I'd think is a relatively delicate operation. Just sayin'. At the same time, as you said, your whole concept is to keep it simple, and that you did beautifully.
Lastly, I was sorry to see the pissing contest in the comments section, but what it did do was bring out the high technical knowledge that you and others have of magnetism, inductance, pickup construction and many other physics concepts of which most guitarists have only limited, if any knowledge. That was very interesting - even seeing the differing sides of it all. I must say, again, your argument ("legalese," not anger) seems to make the most sense, very well thought out and described. Your knowledge, and that of others, is most impressive. I learned more than just how to beef up a Strat pickup! Thank you! Cheers!
Thank you very much for such kind words. I'm really glad you like my video presentation.
Cheap pickups are quite sturdy. The only thing that is delicate in a pickup is the magnet wire of the coil. But most of the time, the mounting wires are soldered inside the coil, which is covered by at least 2 layers of tape, so there are no exposed thin wires. In some pickups where lead magnet wires are exposed, they are usually routed in a groove on the bobbin and covered in wax, just like expensive alnico pickups. The thinnest part of the bobbin is around 0.8mm thick and the top is thinner than the bottom. You can tap the pole pieces from the top but if you miss, you can chip or crack the bobbin. Tapping from the bottom is safer. There is no need to provide support to the bobbin because much of the the force is directed on the pole piece and very little is distributed to the bobbin, unless it is stuck with rust or you miss hitting the pole piece. The bobbin is usually made from acrylic or HDPE (I think). You can toss the pickups around, just don't abuse them.
After the magnet is removed from the pickup, the pole pieces are being held only by residual glue from the magnet and paraffin wax, aside from their snug fit in the bobbin holes. While the glue and wax are still warm, the pole pieces will slide out with little effort. In the video, I was just overly cautious because sometimes the pole pieces can still be uncomfortable to touch. It's better to err on the side of safety. Using a hammer was overkill but that was the first thing I saw on my table to use to tap the pole pieces but you can just push the pole pieces with a rod by hand. But I think tapping a rod gives better control. I do have a table vise in my other work table and I use it in a lot of things including pickup modification. But in laying out the procedure for this video, I had to consider that not everybody has a table vise. Besides, I have also used this method many times before and working light has its advantages.
Pickups are very simple devices but the underlying principles behind them are quite complex. However, it's easy to understand the basic things about them and you can get by with little knowledge. There's no need to make it appear complicated, mystical and expensive.
... Which is very appreciated! Thanks for your reply, John. I just figured it'd be easier, if not safer for the pickup, to hold the thing still somehow. But your point's well-taken. I do guitar & pedal mods myself (have some good ones for Gretsch models with the Standby Switches... Gretsch actually mis-engineered them!), and knowing the benefits of moving from the living room floor to a decent work table with the clamping devices I might need, I guess I appreciate them more than some!
By the way (a little off-topic, but...), from using the Gretsches I mentioned (I have 2) I've come to rely on having standby/mute switches in most of my guitars & basses! (It's SO simple - just a switch to short hot to ground at the output. I did more than that with the Gretsch Country Gentleman & its 3-way on/off/on switch. It's now off/on/on w add'l filter cap & well worth the effort!) The mute's especially useful when playing more than one instrument in live performance; you needn't change volumes when changing guitars, just turn it off. It's become vital in a Strat I use also with a Roland guitar synth. On more than one song, I'm switching between guitar & synth, & it's vital to be able to quickly turn the guitar off & on, so it's not playing when I use the synth. The "mix" selector on the synth pickup output is far too clumsy to make that switch quickly enough. Don't know why more guitars don't have 'em!
Anyway, another topic for another time. Thanks again for your MOST informative video, and all the following writing. Great stuff!
... Which is very appreciated! Thanks for your reply, John. I just figured it'd be easier, if not safer for the pickup, to hold the thing still somehow. But your point's well-taken. I do guitar & pedal mods myself (have some good ones for Gretsch models with the Standby Switches... Gretsch actually mis-engineered them!), and knowing the benefits of moving from the living room floor to a decent work table with the clamping devices I might need, I guess I appreciate them more than some!
By the way (a little off-topic, but...), from using the Gretsches I mentioned (I have 2) I've come to rely on having standby/mute switches in most of my guitars & basses! (It's SO simple - just a switch to short hot to ground at the output. I did more than that with the Gretsch Country Gentleman & its 3-way on/off/on switch. It's now off/on/on w add'l filter cap & well worth the effort!) The mute's especially useful when playing more than one instrument in live performance; you needn't change volumes when changing guitars, just turn it off. It's become vital in a Strat I use also with a Roland guitar synth. On more than one song, I'm switching between guitar & synth, & it's vital to be able to quickly turn the guitar off & on, so it's not playing when I use the synth. The "mix" selector on the synth pickup output is far too clumsy to make that switch quickly enough. Don't know why more guitars don't have 'em!
Anyway, another topic for another time. Thanks again for your MOST informative video, and all the following writing. Great stuff!
I get your point. I am a little apprehensive about using big metal tools on plastic devices. The possibility that the plastic will slip and break is too great. It is very difficult to estimate how much clamping force is enough before it begins to break. What I do is just to hold the rod with my thumb and index finger and the other three fingers secure the pickup against my palm and gently put pressure down on it towards the pliers acting as a wedge. If you find holding the pickup with 3 fingers against your palm a little difficult, place a piece of thick rag over the pickup.
I used to have a Chet Atkins Country Gentleman. It's a beautiful piece of art. I miss that guitar.
I think it would be better to have a kill switch pedal, which is very easy to make. Place that between your effects pedal board and the amplifier or mixer so that any noise coming from your pedal board will also be muted.
Good stuff, John. "In the hand" makes sense, too... there's a lot of control and "feel" there.
Yes, the Gent IS a piece of art, indeed. It's THE guitar that got me interested in guitars in the first place, when George played his on Ed Sullivan Show. Fascinating to me then, still is now!
The kill switch on the floor is good - I use the volume pedal for that kind of "Master." But often when I play live, I have 3 guitars (the Gent, Ric 360-12, & Strat) all plugged in to a mixer, then to pedals, then to the amp. (AC30) So I have to be able to mute 2 guitars while I play the 3rd or I'm almost sure to get one on a stand feeding back. Keeping them all plugged in & ready is a major time saver when switching instruments.
And as I said with the Strat, switching to the guitar between phrases on the Roland synth, sometimes very fast for just a phrase or 2, having that small switch on the lower horn is right where I need it. On the particular song I'm thinking of that's most "pedal intensive", "Hello Goodbye" with my Beatles tribute band (NO wigs or costumes, just The Music), I'm doing such a pedal dance on that, to add another would drive me to my grave! Between violins on the synth, then "clean" guitar for the legato slide, then the fuzz guitar line for the choruses, back & forth... it's a fun challenge, but that little switch literally makes it possible! There's no guitar through much of the song, only the violins, so for those all-important phrases, I can just turn it on when I need it, then off again. Pretty cool.
Thanks for your thoughts, John! Cheers!
Does neodymium magnet bar works too or it absolutely needs to be disc magnets?
The magnets will clear up the sound some, but it will also lose a little output strength, and cut the highs just a bit. for just a little more cash (and a lot of time to do it by hand), you can strip the wire from your spool, and rewind with more coils, just keep an eye on the resistance, usually 1 or 2 k ohms more is enough, and do not keep a parallel wind (that increases capacitance, and creates a filtering effect). overwinding will increase the output as well, and give you crisper highs. if you are skilled, and have a vice, you can even use a variable speed drill (slower is easier to get a consistent wind). though this option is not for everyone. If you don't want to spend the big bucks, there are also some pickups on the net that sell for less than the big names, but will still net you a better sound (unless you are starting with a five or six hundred dollar guitar to begin with.
To increase the volume output, try using 2 or 3 disc magnets on each pole piece.
John Doesn't , Why would adding Neodymium disc magnets make your ceramic pickups or alnico pickups sound more twangy?Any other modification you can do to pickups to make them sound more twangy, jangly, chimey like Rickenbacker pickups jangly tones?
If I was to replace the 6 whole pickup slug rods would I still llneed little magnets behind them? Also what is the size of them rods?
thanks John , Good Work ,, I read most of this & your long reply .. I didn't see any reference to how they change the sound ,, the increase output = volume ,,frequency harmonic content of the string & resistance in Ohms.. ( which is fairly indicative of how it might sound.. low = sounds vintage & clear ,,, high Ohm resistance = sounds brighter ,, etc. as a locked in gtr tweeker , I guess a sound comparison would help ,, Ohm readings ,, that' where I think there could be more info,, thanks again., Nigel Tufnels hot rodded gtr would be a challenge.. he he he.
i didn't see the disc mags that you put in.can you add another vid with this in it?
Could it be replaced w an alnico set of magnets?
Thanks
2:30pm Phil.
Yes, indeed.
What size are the magnets?
Hi there amigo. Thanks for the great video, well presented, easy to follow good instructions, no BS narrative. I would've loved to hear the finished result. Please do a follow up sound demo of the upgrade.
Your place sounds relaxing
Thanks for sharing john. this is a great project. I have tried it but the output of the neodymium was much weaker than the ceramic, even when stacked. maybe I got a low quality neodymium.
Yes, the output of the modified pickup has a much lower output than when it had ceramic magnets. It's output volume should be like an old Alnico 2. But compared with its ceramic tone, it should now have a more "defined" middle range. It would also help if you clean the point of contact between the neodymium magnet and the pole pieces. As much as possible, there should be as much bare metal to metal contact. It is also possible that one or two magnets have their polarities reversed
If you really want a high volume output, try putting the neodymiums on top but that would change its "tone" as well. When placed on top, secure the magnets to the pole pieces with a stronger adhesive. If you strike it strong enough with a pick, it might fly off. If you get weird tones, lower the pickup height.
Hope this helps.
thanks for the reply john. the problem could be the reversed polarity.I had problem to tell the polarity because the neodymium magnets would stick to the ceramic magnet either side.
Did you had try using neodymium magnet block rather than using disc type?
Old-school ingenuity! What makes me grin, though:
Use a "crude" electric iron, but place extremely advanced smartphone with 4 gigs of RAM pretty darn close
to the iron, just to keep time! :)
Interesting modification bui what exactly does this do ? ..(.cleaner , louder ) Also I bought a trashed pawn shop Squire strat cheap just to learn and play with , and I found someone reworked the wiring for the pickups ..not sure why but oh well , they also .placed a extra bar magnet underneath the pickup mags maybe to get more power ..... the soldering looked like it was don by a first grader , I replaced it with a stratosphere loaded pickguard and it seems to be ok now . I think your Modification would be desirable for chickin pickin .lol
I thought this was a great video. Straight to the point! I tried it, and your technique works as you said! Perfect! . Thanks John!
Thank you. I'm glad to hear the modification turned out well for you.
It would be great if you would tell us where to get the Magnets ..please ?
You ("us") have asked that question, in one form or another, several times already and I have answered all of them. One of you ("us") have even graciously provided a link.
Nice job......
Would you add the video/audio comparison between the original magnet and neodymium magnet? Thx
Danang Sugeng Nugroho, I've been planning to make test audio recordings of the different magnet and -pole piece configurations. I have to ensure that the test conditions are identical for each test sample and only the magnet and pole piece configuration will need to be changed. I would need a dedicated guitar and pickup to work on this and other ideas I am planning to do but I don't have a spare guitar to use right now. I will post my work as soon as I have finished doing it.
But instead of waiting for me to do it, why not do your own experiment and maybe share your experience. Doing the modification is not difficult and you can always easily revert back to the original magnet configuration of your pickup if you're not happy with the result. But I seriously doubt if you will use the original ceramic magnet again once you make the modification. Read the recommendations I made in the description in my other video (th-cam.com/video/s0OZy8w8Pr8/w-d-xo.html) to get an idea on what to expect.
Good luck with your project!
just thought the same
how to wire a guitar
Fantasic, you answered my only process related question in the description. Great vid. Only one other question sorry if its overly noobish but will this be the same for humbuckers? Never seen inside one before.
Good job John... Thank you very much for excellent demo.. Hmmm I wonder what magnet is on my Indonesian Squier ? I must try this one day..
Thank you. I am almost absolutely certain that a Squier has ceramic pickups.
Thanks.. Damn... I spelt Squier wrong !
Is this method the same for precision pickups in a bass? Mine have a ceramic bar magnet in the bottom so it theoretically would be the same in approach though I am wondering if the location of the pickups relative to each other might impact the tone due to them being very close. Either way thank you John for this very helpful video.
This modification should work with the pickups of a Precision Bass. I haven't tried it but I suggest that you put magnets on the top and bottom of the pole pieces instead of putting them on the bottom only. That should give the sound more "definition" and still maintain a clear "bottom" or bass sound. But you should secure the magnet on top with a stronger adhesive.
Hi man, awesome video, i just have a question. Will this work on humbuckers? The ones where you can adjust the poles height with an allen key
Humbuckers’ two coils have reverse polarity from each other. If you match the polarity of the coils it should theoretically work. It would be fun to see your video on it. Cheers.
I tried something quite similar, but not as complicated. I've stuck the little neodymiums under the ceramic bar, i get the impression it changed the tone, for the better...i think.
I have not tried it the way you did. I suppose that the neodymiums increased the strength of the ceramic bar magnet and somewhat increased the output of your pickups. You can try putting the neodymiums on top of the pickups and you will get and an even more "punchier" sound but you would have to lower your pickups from the strings to avoid magnet-induced harmonics. But removing the ceramic bar magnet altogether and replacing it with neodymium disc magnets will give your pickups a different tone character, which, in my opinion, is much better. Watch my other video on magnet simulations and read the description to get an idea on the different magnet-pole piece configurations. Good luck on your project!
Going to give this a go. What size disks did you use?
Thanks in advance.
In this video, I used one 5mm diameter with 1mm thickness N52 neodymium disc magnet per pole piece. It's in the description. I suggest you read it and the comments. I would also suggest that you watch my other videos:
Cheap Pickups with Amazing Tone and Great Looks - Customizing Neodymium Modified Pickups (th-cam.com/video/Zy_DmaYppns/w-d-xo.html)
Magnetic Field Simulation of Different Pole Piece Configurations with Neodymium Disc Magnets (th-cam.com/video/s0OZy8w8Pr8/w-d-xo.html)
After doing your modification, I would appreciate a feedback, good or bad. A short description of the effect of your modification would be nice.
Thank you.
I sure will. Maybe some before and after audio.
GREAT VID & VERY TECHNICLY SOUND WITH SMART TIPS .....THANKS
Thank you sir for your kind words.
john doesn't,,, Out here in the Southern Hemisphere of Auckland New Zealand,,, I believe you mate, I read your statement and his, & have to say, yours is pretty plausible
Are these 3x3 neodymium magnets? They are available in different sizes though
The magnets used in this video are N52 5mm diameter x 1mm thickness.
I wonder what the resistance readings were before and after. What N rating were the magnets?
Or is resistance solely a function of the winding? (Which didn’t change)
You are right about the DC resistance of the pickup. It did not change after the modification.
The magnet strength or "N" rating of the disc magnets used in the video is N35. But you can use a N52. Soundwise, an N52 will sound a little brighter than a N35. But an N35 will sound more "vintage-ish". In both cases, the magnet pull on the strings is negligible. With an N35 at the bottom of the pole piece, the Gauss level at the string is even less than an Alnico 3.
With respect to the physical properties, a N52 magnet is more brittle than a N35. N52 magnet will usually crack, or even shatter into pieces, if they pull on each other and slam strong enough. Tiny splinters may fly on to your eyes, so wear protective gear. N52 magnets are usually nickel coated.
Hey John, thanks for making the video and sharing it with the interweb. What tone differences have you noticed from this mod?I would like to DIY my pickups, just to hear if there's an interesting difference. Also I'm to poor to buy pickups. If I were to perform this mod on my Ibanez RG with V1, V7, V8 pickups what could I expect? More brightness, mid range boost...? Could this mod be performed on Humbuckers as well, if so, how does one do so. Looking forward to your answers. Cheers Eric.
Based on how I hear it, unlike ceramic pickups, which usually have very pronounced upper midrange frequencies (2-4 KHz) and strong midrange (500Hz - 2KHz), the neodymium modification as demonstrated in this video, with only one disc magnet at the bottom of the stock pole pieces, low midrange frequencies (250-500 Hz) are more pronounced and the midrange frequencies are stronger. Changing the material of the pole pieces (magnetic permeability) and/or their length will have an effect on the "tone" of the pickup. Also, magnet strength (number of magnets) as well as its location in the pole piece will also have an effect on the "tone" and the output power of the pickup. Watch my other video on magnet simulation (th-cam.com/video/s0OZy8w8Pr8/w-d-xo.html) and read its description to get an idea of the other possibilities. Also, watch my new tutorial on using hardened steel as pole pieces (th-cam.com/video/Zy_DmaYppns/w-d-xo.html). The magnet modification in my videos are very easy to do and if you are not satisfied with the result, you can try the other options for modification or revert back to the original ceramic magnet.
Humbuckers have different structures, and they usually have one set of adjustable screws that are mounted on a metal bar. Also, their pickup covers will prevent adding disc magnets directly under the pole pieces, unless you cut them. I haven't tried modifying humbuckers but I suppose the easiest way to modify them is to replace their ceramic magnets with a similar sized neodymium or alnico magnets. Either way, it will not be a cheap modification. There are several tutorials out there on how to go about magnet swap on humbuckers. You may want to view or read about them.
I am wondering if by taking the pole pieces out if you don't scrape the wire insulation off and get shorts.
Short answer: No. Coils of ceramic pickups are wound in plastic bobbins, unlike alnico pickups, which are wound directly over the pole pieces that are held by phenolic boards called "flatwork". Not to be flippant, but, bobbins are bobbins. The confusion is caused by guitar parts suppliers who refer to alnico pickup phenolic boards as "bobbin flatwork". In coil construction, a bobbin is a material that secures the coil and separates it from the core. It is sometimes called a "coil former" or "coil mount". So, a "flatwork" is not a bobbin because it is just a board that functions as a flange to keep the coil from slipping beyond the core, which is the pole pieces, and it also keeps the pole pieces in place. So, why are parts sellers creating this confusion? Probably to make cheap boards appear unique, more functional and make it sound expensive.
I saw that, Labyrinth on youtube!! Awesome soundtrack! That has stuck in my head since i was maybe 5 years old....... Oh and thanks for this video!!
really interesting mod.. I love tweeking guitars... I just bought a really cheap strat copy .. with one pice neck & 3 piece body .. the woods are great , but the PUs are brittle & toppy .. searching around for mods..
why can't you just put Neo Dymium disc magnets straight on top of the pole pieces... ?... & lower the entire PU to compensate height... or will the strings stick to them ?..
Of course, you can place neodymium disc magnets on top of the pole pieces without removing the ceramic bar magnet but you will not get the same "tone" if you follow the modification procedure in this video. The strings will not stick to the magnets. it's more likely that they will dislodge with strong picking.
Cool idea! I would really like to hear what is sounds like.
yes a before / after would have been good
A skillful use of common tools to achieve an uncommon upgrade: this is genius. Thank you for including several "why" explanations. These prevent me from having to learn from mistakes. Yeah, I would have used hot melt glue.
Dr. G
Einstein is a genius. I am not. I merely picked up on the ideas of other people from the Music Electronics Forum, I researched and experimented, and came up with this simple procedure. It's not my original idea. Anyway, thank you for the compliment. I'm glad that you liked my tutorial.
Yeah, I probably use genius a bit too much, but I am impressed when someone learns to do something so well that they can explain it simply. Einstein might have said: I merely picked up Newton's ideas from the Principia Mathemateca forum, I researched the Michaelson-Morley experiment, and made some simple mathematical adjustments. It's not really an original idea. The same process you used.
Anyway, I just bought 200 of these (cheap) magnets to experiment with some of my ceramic magnet guitars.
Thanks, brother,
Dr. G
I appreciate what you're getting at but you're stretching the argument too far and it really doesn't fit. As far as this tutorial is concerned, it all comes down to the fact that I just chose to use common sense. Most people choose to ignore it.
I can see that you grasped the concept of this tutorial very well, that this is only the bare basic idea of the pickup modification. That explains why you bought a lot of magnets. It can get quite interesting and complicated (not really complicated although sounds intellectually challenging) when you place the magnet in between the ends of the pole pieces and/or use other magnetically permeable material or mix different kinds of ferro magnetic material and/or magnet configuration to contour the magnet field propagation.
Good luck on your quest for a better "tone" on the practical and cheap side of the equation.
can i just put the neo magz beneath the poles and glue them?
instead of removing the pols etc....
Yes sir, you can put the neodymium magnets at the bottom of the pole pieces right after removing the ceramic bar magnet. Before applying glue I suggest that you try putting one neodymium at the bottom first, then two neodymiums at the bottom, then one neodymium at the top. Go for the configuration that sounds best for you. Spread a light glue over the bobbin and neodymiums. Avoid putting glue in between the neodymiums and the pole pieces so that it will be easier to separate them if and when you decide to modify your pickups again. If you decide to put one neodymium on top, push the pole pieces in the bobbin just a little bit, so that the neodymium, or part of it is in the pickup cover, then apply a thin glue on the side between the pole pieces and the neodymiums. This will prevent the neodymiums from separating from the pole pieces in the event that you hit it with a pick while playing.
@@john.doesnt tell me, why did you even remove the magnet at all? simply sticking a neo magnet under it WOULD increase the pull just the same.
Hi, I have a question. I noticed that you mixed all the poles pieces together and started placing them on the pickups. Do they need to be placed in an specific way? Will it cause issues if you flip some of the pole pieces by mistake? I plan to do this to my guitar and would like to know if I need to keep an eye on this. Thanks!
Great video btw!!!! 🎉
The pole pieces of ceramic pickups are not magnetized. In the video, the pole pieces are identical. They can be placed in any hole in any position. If you have staggered pole pieces, follow the staggered pattern when re-inserting the pole pieces. If you are going to use the same stock pole pieces, there is no need to remove them. Just remove any gum/adhesive/wax residue on the pole pieces after removing the ceramic bar magnet. The critical part is how to attach the neodymium disc magnets and ensure that their polarities are oriented properly.
Thank you for your comment. Good luck!
@@john.doesnt Thank you for the quick response! Got it! That was my only question, everything else was perfectly explained. Thank you again! Cheers!
When you have removed the magnets from the bobbin, wouldn't that be a good time to pour hot wax or nail polish or something into the holes so as to fixate the innards of the pickup so that they do not vibrate, thereby making unwanted cacaphony and distorted ambient sounds?
Most of the time, the pole pieces are already "waxed in" the bobbin holes so you do not have to put wax in the stock pole pieces. But if you are going to replace the stock pole pieces, putting wax is an option to keep them from vibrating but do not apply wax on the neodymium magnets. Wax is applied hot and it might degrade the neodymium magnets. If you want to wax pot the coil, do it before placing the neodymium magnets but you have to scrape off all the wax at the bottom of the pole pieces to have a good coupling between the magnet and the pole pieces.
Brother hey - your video really helped me so thanks very much
I'm glad to hear that. Thank you.
Hi. I really liked your video, thank you for sharing it. I'm considering on doing this to my pickups. But I have some questions for you, if you don't mind: Have you heard that you can remagnetize "old" rods and by that "revive" their tone? If you have, which method would you prefer for that purpose? And the last question: Which neodymium magnets did you use in your video, some N35s or N52s? I have this question because I can only find 5mm x 1mm N35, but no N52; but there are 5mm x 2mm N52 (so I think I'll use theese), would you say there is a "considerable" difference between some N35s and N52s magnets placed at the bottom of the pick up?
Albert Van Krieg, Regarding your first question, I'm sorry if I misunderstood you, but are you asking which is better between remagnetizing an old alnico magnet and putting a neodymium magnet on an alnico magnet? I haven't tried attaching neodymium magnets to alnico magnets because I'm still happy with the alnico pickups that I have, as they are. But comparing the sound of an alnico pickup to a neodymium modified ceramic pickup, the alnico sounded "fuller". However, this might not be a fair comparison. The alnico had a thicker coil, the wires are probably #42, while neodymium modified ceramic had a slimmer coil, with wires probably #43, or maybe thinner.
Regarding your second question on using 5mm diameter with 1mm thickness neodymium magnets, N52 will produce a stronger output that is somewhat "brighter" than a N35, which sounds warm and mellow. But a 2mm thickness N52 will have a noticeably boosted output than a 1mm thickness N52. As an alternative, you may opt to stack two 1mm thickness N35 if you think that a single 1mm thickness N35 too soft for your taste. Stacked two 1mm thickness N35 is not as "aggressive" as one 2mm N52. In the video, I used N52 5mm x 1mm magnets on stock pole pieces.
I hope I answered your questions. I'm glad you liked my video. Good luck with your modification!
Oh man, I don't know why but I wasn't notified when you answered. And yes, now that I've read my comment again I noticed that my questions are some confusing, haha, but you understood well. Thank you very much for taking your time answering to every one of my questions! And regarding the first two of them I was thinking more like "remagnetized/new alnico pickups vs neodymium modified ceramic pickups (with old rods)".
I'm just wondering ... What did you do exactly but set off and set up the pickups ? What change did you do ?
The objective is to change the "tone" of the pickup by changing: (1) the magnet; and (2) the pole pieces (although the video merely demonstrated the changing of the magnet, this was suggested in the options for the pole pieces). Technically, this is really changing the frequency response of the pickup as an inductor by the changing the core of the coil. Differences in the in the characteristics of the magnet (mass, shape, energy, etc.) and the pole pieces (mass, shape, permeability, etc.) will give rise to a different frequency response curve. In my point of view, replacing the ceramic bar magnet with neodymium disc magnets will give the pickup a better "tone". The change in "tone" also depends, among other things, on where you place the magnet (bottom, middle or top) and how many you will use.
Anyone made sound comparisons?
I think I will do this with some cheap ass pickups I got just lying around.(I wondered what I was gonna do with them.)
2 magnets per peg wont fit in my guitar, so before you go through the extra trouble of trying to put two on without them all coming together make sure it will still fit, or router the hole deeper.
Won't that iron melt the enamel coating of the copper?
Nice video; however, I think it might lead some people down a wrong path into thinking ceramic = bad. Some of the best Tele pickups I've ever used or heard were Fender Mexican made ceramics. Search for videos of Guthrie Trapp playing his famous green Tele copy. It also has stock Mexican made fender pickups, and he gets the best Tele sound I've ever heard.
I'm glad you like my work. It is a common perception that any procedure that shows how to replace something implies that the replacement is better. But that conclusion is generally borne out of the reader or viewer's knowledge, experiences, and prejudices. That is why the very first statement I made in this video is a statement of its basic premises, and that is you don't like the sound of your stock pickups AND you don't want to spend a lot of money; nothing about ceramic pickups being bad. I also recommended not to use epoxy or super glue to secure the magnets and use plastic varnish instead, with the idea that it would make it easy to revert back to the pickup's original setup and sound, suggesting that changing the ceramic magnet may not turn out to be better. So I don't think I made any allusion that ceramic pickups are bad, per se.
A well designed and made pickup has, almost always, good sound quality, whether it uses alnico, ceramic or neodymium magnets. The bad reputation of ceramic pickups is due to some manufacturers skimping on quality materials and employing shabby mass production processes to lower costs. Because of this, quite a number, if not a majority, of ceramic pickups are below par, to say the least. For people falling within the group of people described in the beginning of this video, the solution offered here may be an option.
It's the title that bothers me. It implies that ceramic pickups are cheap (some are quite expensive--Barden for instance) and that this will make them sound great--as if they didn't sound great before, which may or may not be the case. I'm also not sure about the quality of the manufacturing process. For example, Duncan consistently makes some of the worst sounding pickups I've ever heard, yet they use good materials, while Dimarzio makes great sounding pickups using the least expensive materials they can to keep the cost down (very thin lead wire, not cloth covered etc.) You can carry 5-volts on a strand of hair, so wire size really doesn't matter, and electrical tape works better than cloth anyway. I've never played any neodymium pickups. I really don't care what they're made of or how they're made. I either like the sound or I don't. Cheers.
I thought you were concerned about a supposed allusion from the video that ceramic pickups are bad. Anyway, regarding your new concern about an allusion from the title that ceramic pickups are cheap, I think you're forcing a conclusion that is not warranted by the statement. What is conveyed by the title is to change cheap pickups. The subtitle in parenthesis states that the change will be from ceramic to neodymium. What can be reasonably inferred here is that the cheap pickups are ceramic pickups BUT not the other way around because there is nothing there to suggest that ceramic pickups are always cheap. But even if it can be inferred that ceramic pickups are cheap, it would not matter much because it is not being recommended to modify expensive ceramic pickups, as the title clearly suggests. Perhaps, it would be better to sell it.
Your concern that this video is suggesting to modify pickups that are already sounding great is unfounded. The first statement in the video, "if you don't like the sound of your pickup," already eliminates them as a possible candidates for modification. If the pickup already sounds great, whether it's expensive or cheap, why modify it? Also, I'm not advocating a particular brand as good or not good. It's the owner or user who determines whether a ceramic pickup sounds great or not. What may be good sounding to me may not be good sounding to others, and vice versa. In other words, what sounds great is subjective.
Loving your patience John
Got an MIM Tele bridge pup just like that!!!
Hi John, do you have any idea if for the cheap pickups with whole ceramic piece magnet on the bottom if I split it in 2 from the middle and position it on the sides of the coil instead of the botton could it improve the sound too ? I see that some good fender pickups have 2 lines of ceramic magnets on the sides of the coil instead of just 1 whole piece on the bottom, any idea ?
"Improve" is a relative term and is very subjective. A more appropriate word is "change". When I started experimenting with pickup modifications, I also tried making a P-90-ish modifications on cheap single coil pickups. I replaced the pole pieces with 1008 round steel bar cut to length to make contact with the magnets. The challenge was how to cut the magnet lengthwise in two equal parts, without losing mass and without breaking it into smaller pieces. I decided to buy neodymium bar magnets instead but they broke before I could test the setup extensively. The sound was powerful because of the neodymiums and had characteristics somewhere between a humbucker and a traditional single coil. I am currently experimenting on this P-90-type of modification. I might make a video after I have finished trying the different configurations. But this is a weekends-only project and I have several different projects ongoing simultaneously. So it may take a while.
The P-90-type modification entails more work and costs more than the modification in this video. But if you have a chop saw or an angle grinder with a cutting wheel, it will be a lot easier. A drill press will also be useful. Experiment on what works best for you.
Thanks for your kind answer John, good ideas, I will study this and try myself, thanks again
I noticed you didn't do a radius alignment of the magnets/pole pieces with a neck radius guage. Why is that?
The height and/or length of the pole pieces are some of the variables enumerated in the video that can affect the output sound of a pickup and it is better left to the preferences of the viewer. This video shows the procedure to make the basic modification only since there are many variations in doing it.
Why wouldn't you install alnico rod magnet slugs?
It was never suggested that you should not install alnico rod magnets. It is very clear that the topic, as suggested by the title, is limited to modifying a pickup's magnet from "ceramic to neodymium".
I don't know if I missed it in this thread.. but any insight for bass guitar pickups?
This pickup modification also works for bass pickups. Although I haven't tried it, I imagine that placing thin disc neodymium magnets on both ends of the pole pieces will sound better in basses.
Could you replace the alnico magnets from a cheap pickup with the neodymium and get a better sounding sound.
If you have an Alnico pickup that does not sound good, maybe it only needs to be re-magnetized. But if you decide to change your Alnico pole pieces to Ferro magnetic pole pieces with neodymium disc magnets, make sure that your pickup has a plastic bobbin.
Changing Alnico pole pieces to Ferro magnetic pole pieces with neodymium disc magnets will change the sound or "tone" of the pickup. Whether the change in sound will be better is a matter of personal appreciation. The change will depend on the number (or size) of the magnets, the position of the magnets, the length of the pole pieces, and the permeability of the pole pieces. The size and form of the coil, as well as the size of the wire and the type of insulation used, also have an effect on how the change in sound will be. A tall and narrow coil will tend to be much "brighter" than a short and fat coil if you add more disc magnets at the bottom.
john doesnt... well thank you very much for such a very informative clip and quick response.
what is the sound difference?
how do you cut the neodymium magnets to match the pole diameter?
It's not safe to cut or machine neodymium magnets. You buy neodymium magnets according to the specifications you need. Fortunately, the 5mm diameter magnets used in this modification are common.
just wondering, if you're punching out the pole pieces why not use Alnico 5 rods for a vintage style pickup? do you just really like the tone of neodymium?
5150stephen, A similar observation was raised by CNCTEMATIC last month. Although not directly stated, my concept of the modification was to keep it within the ambit of "cheap" and elevate the pickup to a state of "sounding great". To summarize: (1) thin disc neodymium magnets are a lot cheaper than alnico rods; (2) neodymium magnets generally do not demagnetize on their own, while alnico will degauss over time even when left alone; and (3) neodymium magnets come fully magnetized and you can use them immediately, while alnico magnets are usually shipped un-magnetized. In addition, using thin disc magnets will give you the option to experiment with different configurations of magnets and pole pieces to get the "tone" and "look" that you want. Watch my other video on magnet simulations and read the description to get some ideas (th-cam.com/video/s0OZy8w8Pr8/w-d-xo.html). If you're still not satisfied, use alnico magnet rods instead of using thin disc neodymium magnets on ferro magnetic rods.
Alnico pickups have a different character than neodymium-modified pickups. I don't have a real bias or preference for using one over the other but I do have some guitars that have their alnico pickups replaced with neodymium-modified pickups. The alnico pickups were really old from the 60's and 70's and the magnets have become very weak. Instead of re-magnetizing them, I just replaced them (not just the pole pieces but the whole pickup) with neodymium-modified pickups that were just lying around. That was 5 or 6 years ago and I'm still using the neodymium-modified pickups and the Alnico pickups are still in storage.
makes sense, didnt realise how cheap the neo's are
I want to do this on my humbucker, is it better to put 1 piece of neodymium magnet on each pole piece (12 magnets), 1 neodymium on each pair touching both north and south (6 magnets), or 1 big bar of neodymium on all pole pieces?
I have tried replacing the ceramic bar magnet of a cheap humbucker (pole pieces in both coils are fixed) with disc magnets for each pole piece. I can't remember which one was better but I replaced the bar magnet back. If I remember correctly, I could only fit 3 disc magnets on the pole pieces before the backplate became unstable and difficult to mount (the magnets kept moving out of place but I did not want to use strong adhesive on the magnets). On hindsight, I think I should have also put some non-magnetic material to fill the space occupied by the bar magnet to keep the backplate stable.
If you are going to replace the ceramic bar magnet with neodymium bar magnet, make sure that the polarities of the magnet are on the long edges and get the exact width that will snuggly fit inside the cavity. Handle the neodymium bar magnet carefully because it is very brittle. It will break if you drop it or if it slams hard to a magnetic material it is attracted to. The neodymium bar magnet I had was 3mm thick and the ceramic bar magnet I was supposed to replace was 5mm thick. The neodymium bar magnet broke to pieces before I could use it.
I would expect that the best simple way to make a humbucker would be to connect up north-south pairs on the underside with bars of pieces of soft steel the same size as the pole pieces so as to effectively create six horseshoe magnets (better yet might be to have U-shaped pole pieces, but those would have to be custom manufactured). I've not tried modifying my humbucker with magnets in that fashion, but having watched your video my plan is to use six separate steel bridges to carry the flux.
Forget about using custom made magnets unless you have lots of money to squander. When designing or experimenting, you will be better off if you use magnet sizes that are readily available in relatively small quantities.
If you are going to "pair up" individual pole pieces of the two coils in a humbucker, either by using 6 pieces of small bars of neodymium magnets or 6 pieces of small bars of mild steel on alnico or neodymium-magnetized pole piece, you have to consider that the metal backplate, which also functions as a mounting bracket, is actually a "magnet shield" that forces the magnetic field to be narrow which makes the pickup more sensitive to string movement, which generally boosts the output. It also functions as a shield from stray fields from interfering with the field in the coils. Changing the material of the backplate has an effect on the output of the pickup.
As I already mentioned, I have tried using disc magnets in a humbucker pickup with the baseplate acting as the "bridge" for the magnetic field to travel into. The sound did not appeal to me and I replaced the original ceramic magnet back but sound preferences are very subjective.
I bought some neodymium discs (5x3mm) that have the same diameter as my pole pieces, it just arrived today,they are too strong, the back plate is a little rised, maybe I will reduce the pole pieces or make a protector to cover the space. If it doesnt work I will buy a normal humbucker from a national brand, which make some clones from Duncan's. Btw this brand makes a neodymium model, but its more expensive than their alnico models, it uses 2 neo bars for each coil placed on the north and south tips, not on the middle of pick-up, but it use blades instead individual pole pieces and plastic cover to reduce the magnetic field
man, those magnets are so strong that they ignore the ceramic magnet north, I have to make sure which side is the correct, because they mix themselves easily (they connect independently of which pole, they atract to the metal pole even if its on the wrong polarity) I mean, I have to separate 6/6 and mark them.
Someone just don't like stock squire bullet pickups. I don't blame you, I would have done the same only I have a good set of stock USA fender pickups from upgrading to vintage noiseless, so I have the option to just use those. I still might modify the stock pickups just for fun.
Hi, have you tried them putting two magnets (5mm x 1mm)? Thanks
Yes sir. I have tried every possible combination I can think of, up to 4 disc magnets in different locations. To get an idea on the effect of the changes in configuration, watch my other video on magnet simulations (th-cam.com/video/s0OZy8w8Pr8/w-d-xo.html). Read the description. I have used a spectrum analyzer but the data seems inconclusive. The best judge of sound is still your ears (not mine).
Oh, thank you so much. I think I'm going to try first with two magnets in the bottom of the polepieces. Thanks for your answer and for your videos. Good job!!!
Thank you! Good luck on your quest for a good tone.
I'm still waiting for the magnets I ordered. When I'm done I'll tell you about the results. Thanks again.
Hi, John. Finally, I did it. The result is really awesome, I can't believe it!!! I put two magnets (5mm x 1mm) per pole. Then I tried the same with an old humbucker, this time using only one magnet per pole. The sound is not as good as I expected (too much output for my taste) but it sounds good and clear. I have greatly improved my pickups for under 3€. Thanks again for your videos and your help.
You are awesome man. Great vid
Hey, thanks for this. A question: why neodymium? Why not Alnico? Its what all the "boutique" and vintage pups have. Is it expensive? cheers
CNCTEMATIC, Alnico magnets in guitars have gained notoriety as the be-all and end-all standard of good guitar tone. That is partly due to the media hype created by pickup manufacturers and partly due to the nostalgia with the age when electric guitars were still in its infancy. On the other hand, neodymium magnets are the most powerful magnets ever invented and they are relatively new. They are so powerful that you cannot use same-sized neodymium magnet pole pieces for pickups. Per unit volume or weight, neodymium magnets are more expensive than alnico magnets. But per unit Gauss or magnet strength, neodymium magnets are cheaper than alnico magnets. You can use alnico magnets as pole pieces but its a lot more expensive than using thin disc neodymium magnets. Alnico magnets are also shipped unmagnetized, while neodymium magnets are fully magnetized and ready to use out of the box. Neodymium magnets generally do not demagnetize. Alnico magnets tend to demagnetize over time but, sometimes, that is also one of its attractions.
Thanks very much for your response! That makes sense. Especially re having to magnetise yourself.
Since you seem to know quite a bit about pickups, I'll try another question: I just bought a cheapish PAF; I got it mainly for the reliced metal cover it came with, but I'm thinking of giving the pickup itself a try. It uses an Alnico II magnet, but is wound with enamel, rather than copper, pickup wire. Have you ever seen that and/or do you have an opinion about the quality of pickups wound with enamel? Cheers
I think you're confusing the insulation as being the wire itself. All magnetic guitar pickups are wound with thin copper wire, which is sometimes referred to as magnet wire. Magnet wire has thin insulation, which may be one or multiple layers of one or several types of polymers. In the early days of the electric guitar, magnet wires used for pickups were commonly coated with either enamel, lacquer or varnish. Today, various synthetic resins are used as insulation depending on the application of the wire. The type of insulation of the magnet wire affects the tone character of the pickup because different insulators have different dielectric properties and are applied in varying thickness, which affects the electrical properties coil, acting as a resistor-inductor-capacitor (RLC) circuit. The insulator, acting as a dielectric, constitutes the capacitor in the RLC circuit. Generally, pickup coils with enamel coated wires tend to have the lower frequencies emphasized, or to be more precise, its high frequencies are rolled off. This is often described as having a "dark" or "warm" sound, which is typical of vintage pickups. When alnico 2 magnets are used, which has low gauss or magnetic level, the output of the pickup is low or soft. This makes it sound "mellow". I hope this explanation wasn't too technical.
Hey, thanks again! That is very useful. I hope you're right. I haven't actually seen the wire, I'm just going by the sales description, which says "Specs:
- Aged PAF Humbucker, Bridge Position.-DC - 8.5k Bridge (52mm polepiece spacing)
- Alnico II Magnets
- *Enamel Pickup Wire* (etc)"
What you're saying makes sense, and I'm guessing is right. If so that would make the product more attractive to me. It's odd that they don't say "enamel *coated* pickup wire".
Anyway, many thanks for taking the time to explain, cheers.
"Aged" is sometimes a euphemism for "weak" or "dull". Combined with the 8.5k and alnico 2 specs, it looks like a recipe for a muddy pickup but I hope I'm wrong. Let me know how it turns out.
Can you tell me where can I buy these neodymium magnets from?
I got my magnets from online sellers in China. You can get them from eBay or Amazon. I was informed that they are also available at Walmart but they are more expensive there and they use imperial measurements instead of metric.
Thank you John.
I would think neo magnets would greatly reduce sustain and mess with intonation quite a bit. Do they?
Neodymium magnets are very powerful but considering that the ones used in this modification are tiny 5mm diameter x 1mm thickness disc magnets that are positioned at least 20mm away from the string, there is negligible effect on string vibration. With the setup used in the video, the Gauss level at the string is about the same as an Alnico 2 pole piece magnet. Even if you stack 2 disc magnets, its strength at the string is not enough to cause serious aberration.
Ok, after I see some of you trying to make such thing like NEO single coil pickups I am need to say couple of thinking after my experiences. First, what is finally the mystery of branded - especially Fender single coil pickups? Answer is - simplicity of construction, but in comparison with cheap single coil ones, please, finally pay attention to the following. If you saw disassembled original Fender pickups without windings, you can see naked magnetic rods placed trough holes of the top and bottom fiber plates. But, if you look at cheap ones, magnetic rods are placed inside of holes of casted plastic bobbin which surrounding magnetic rods with thickness of about (whole) 1mm. So, on Fender pickups wire is wound directly on the rods, but on cheaps is wound 1mm away from rods all around. That space nearest to the rods, is the most precious place for the windings, because for the pickup coil there is most homogeneous magnetic field - just imagine how many windings of 0,06mm wire can be placed in that space. There pickup windings take clearest and strongest sound, so pickup has recognizable balanced sounding, and this is for sure main consideration about branded single coil pickups. The same story is about ceramic pickup, but for the general consideration is good to mention difference of shapes of magnetic fields between ceramic and alnico magnetic constructions of single coil pickups, which also has influence on sound.
If you replace ceramic magnet with small NEO disc ones on cheap Chinese single coil pickups so, you will get sound something closer to Fender alnico pickups because magnetic field shape will be something closer also. Better change you will get if you cut off existing rods on half and place the same NEO magnet on the middle. But, significant change you will get if you consider what I said above ...
There are several ways Fender manufactures its pickups. As you described, the Alnico-flatwork pickup is the defining standard of a Fender single coil. But there are also Fender pickups that are made with ceramic bar and slugs, similar to the "cheap" third party pickups. There are also P90-style pickups made by Fender. Presently, there are a slew of "noiseless" pickups from Fender.
The part of the magnetic field that greatly influences the sound of the pickup is the external part of the field that passes through the strings. Defining or predicting how that external field propagates will greatly influence the "tone" of the pickup. In the description in my other video (th-cam.com/video/s0OZy8w8Pr8/w-d-xo.html), I briefly discussed the effect of magnet placement in the pole pieces. Defining the ideal tone is very subjective and I would refrain from making a recommendation on what is the best configuration but I have my preferences.
Pickup construction involving magnet-coil-string coupling affects the output "tone" of the pickup. But another reason why Alnico pickups have their distinctive sound is also due to the magnetic permeability of the pole piece material, the Alnico rod itself. In modifying a cheap pickup, changing the stock pole pieces made from mild steel to high permeability hardened steel will further change or "improve" the tone of the pickup. Watch my other video (th-cam.com/video/Zy_DmaYppns/w-d-xo.html) and read the description and comments.
Disregard on certain importance of my consideration, still I did not expected answers much, especially that fast, so thank you! Anyhow, I addressed it to all interested for the "mystery" of simplest, but branded single coil pickups. The main first part of my comment was not only about Alnico, than of course Ceramic single coil pickups also, and I am was not about considering finesses in any of pickup materials, magnetic constructions ... which of course affect the sound, but not so significantly, like o. e. guitar wood do not affect much. I am not sure what was intention of many branded manufacturers of single coil pickups they considering what I am talking about, or not. But, we can see that practically none of them wound magnetic wire over plastic bobbin, than directly over the rods. From whatever reason, they just following basic original Fender construction. For about electromagnetic pickups, Fender together with Gibson provided long ago almost nonchangeable standards, considering electronic path of amplifiers, ... but also many other nonchangeable things are there, like o. e. - the top of magnetic construction nearest to the guitar wires must not be too strong, otherwise would affect the guitar intonation. Or, adding more pickup windings will affect the intensity of pickup signal and tone most significantly, but on the other hand there is limit because tone will became more and more muddy - what is contrary of this initial intention to get stronger pickup output, but with clear tone like basic construction has. Exactly this addressing my point I am repeating, that main part of pickup windings is just nearest to the magnetic rods, where is achieved most clear and intensive sounding.
It is actually a terrible idea to wind directly on the metal pole pieces. That is why old-style Fender pickups are so inconsistent -- it's better to have a thin layer of electrical insulation like paper tape between the wire and the poles or, better yet, to put thin-walled plastic bushings on the two outer poles. Either way, you prevent shorts between the inner windings and the poles (the insulation of magnet wire is very thin and not reliable when in contact with a big metal object under winding tension) and also limit capacitance between those windings the pole piece surfaces.
Of course it is not so good to wind literally directly on the metal rods, and exactly - that IS the reason why many of Fender vintage pickups become inconsistent. It is because of influence of time with moisture, oil, any dirts, that corrosion appear exactly where wire touch the metal rods and broke it. I heard Fender applied thin layer of lacquer on the rods before windings to isolate them, but it did not much solved the problem. if you put THIN paper or any thin isolation there it would not change original sounding in general, but if there is thick material like mostly in cheap Chinese pickups it will be exactly like I described. Capacitance between wires and rods is not much considerable also, especially because rods are not grounded. To say, roughly and simplest made pickup would be the best sounding one, most solved pickup would not so. But, believe me people do so many things like o.e. even make pickups "without" feedback that is not poured in wax. You can always make some enough good compromise in design between sound quality or durability, or to go in any of extremes, but it is just on you which kind of result you want. Cheers
saan mo nabili mga magnets?
I am gonna try this soon and see how bad I can mangle it - thanks for the clear steps and explanations, I'll need 'em
Have you tried this yet Rex ?
Very good....(video much better than pics).
Thank you!
Where can I get the neodymium magnets?
Try eBay or Amazon. They are usually sold by the hundreds. I got mine from online sellers from China.
I couldn't find the right size on Amazon but I looked on ebay for 5mm by 1mm sized magnets and here's what I found, if you want them now, here's a US listing for 50 for $7: www.ebay.com/itm/192270112346
and if you can wait a few months for delivery from China, here's a listing for 50 for $1.50: www.ebay.com/itm/191836909219
A cool and educational tutorial to be sure; but with so many inexpensive pickups out there using Alnico magnets, I have to wonder, why?
I am happy for you that you can buy a new set of pickups whenever you want to. But not everybody is as fortunate as you are. For those who don't have much to spend, or just don't want to spend much, on a new set of cheap alnico pickups, not even on a second hand set, they might consider the procedure in my video as an option, or a solution. It's still a lot cheaper and the result is quite noticeable, to say the least.
You might also want to consider sending me your old ceramic pickups if your are just going to throw them away. I can use them for other ideas I have for pickup modification.
Actually John, I'm usually flat broke, but I find plenty of less-expensive pickups that may not be Seymour Duncan or Lindy Fralin, but seem perfectly adequate. In fairness, I'm not playing lots of gigs any more, just jammin' for my own amusement; and I don't change pickups every week. But again, thanks for a most interesting video, I learned a lot!
Won't the extra powerful magnet field cause string pull problems??
I'd rather have more windings I think
But it's a cracking idea if you wind your own
An extremely powerful magnetic field can interfere with string vibration when the energy of the vibration is dissipating. It can cause unnatural harmonics. But the magnets used in this modification are tiny 5mm diameter discs with 1mm thickness placed at the bottom of the pickup. With this setup, the strength of the magnetic field at the strings is almost the same as an Alnico 2 pole piece. Needless to say, the effect is negligible. You can use Alnico pole pieces, instead of using neodymium disc magnets on stock pole pieces, but Alnicos are much more expensive and they have to be magnetized first before you install the pickup in a guitar. Also bear in mind that Alnico pole pieces would sound different from neodymiums on pole pieces because they propagate magnetic field differently. Experiment on which setup is better for you. With neodymium disc magnets, you have a lot of options for modification to suit your tastes, like using a different material or size for pole pieces (watch my other video th-cam.com/video/Zy_DmaYppns/w-d-xo.html). You can also experiment on the number and placement of the disc magnets, at the bottom, on top, or any place in between (watch my video th-cam.com/video/s0OZy8w8Pr8/w-d-xo.html).
Pickup windings have a very significant influence in the sound of a pickup. But modifying the windings is tedious and entails a bigger expense than modifying the magnets. The modification presented in the video is a cheap and simple alternative to effectively "improve" or change the sound of an otherwise bland cheap ceramic pickup. But don't attempt this modification on an expensive name-brand hyped-up ceramic pickup because you will be better off if you sell it unmodified.
john doesnt very interesting indeed!! I've got lots of bits laying about I may have a go!!
There is one thing you didn't take into account, that stronger magnets also mean a greater force of attraction of the strings. Thus, the string resonates for a shorter time and the sustain is weak. In these pickups, everything must be properly selected so that the result meets expectations. A long time ago I also thought that if I wound 20 thousand turns, the voltage would be very high. And I was disappointed because these coils were not suitable for anything, least of all for mounting in a guitar.
there are a couple things you failed to consider. first, the magnets used in the mod are very small and, therefore, they are not as powerful as you might have imagined. second, the magnets are placed with a considerable distance from the strings. thus, the gauss level at the strings would be a little less than an Alnico 3 pole piece. it is not enough to cause unwanted harmonics or "wolf tones". it might also interest you that i have done this modification several times and the results of my modifications have been very satisfactory. this matter has already been discussed several times in the comments and are kept there for reference.
Is there a source for the Centro Plastic Varnish in the USA ?
TheRedhawke, You can use any brand of cheap (cheapest) plastic varnish. Don't use expensive super durable varieties like those made from polyurethane. Its purpose is merely to keep the disc magnets from sliding. The force of the magnet is strong enough to make it stick firmly to the pole pieces, as long as there is good magnetic coupling between them, that is, the point of contact is the maximum surface area possible. As an alternative, you can use water based enamel paint or white school/craft glue. Apply them as coating over the magnets and not as adhesive between the magnets and the pole pieces. They stick quite well to metals and plastic and they peel off when you scrape them. But I prefer using plastic varnish because it sets quickly so it doesn't flow in to areas that I don't want it to go and, when I want to further modify the pickup, it melts in denatured alcohol so it doesn't harm the plastic bobbin or the magnet wire insulation, if it ever gets in the coil. Essentially, you can use anything that sticks well to metals and plastic, but is easy to remove, except snot, boogers, and everything in between. Good luck on your project!
OK and thanks so much. I loved the video.
Puertorico made videos are always the best!
I suppose that's one way of saying that you don't like my video. But your sense of nationalism is admirable, unless you're not Puerto Rican.
I love your video...not just informative but also entertaining. And because of the natural element of the countryside (I live in NYC) it was to me even more enjoyable. By the way I am Italian.
Grazie Signore.
Doesn't the stronger magnetic field dampen sustain?
A strong magnetic field will cause unnatural harmonic overtones, aside from affecting the sound envelope and sustain (decay). But because of the distance of the small disc neodymium magnets from the strings, the field strength at the strings is not enough to cause serious sound aberrations. With the setup described in this video, the magnetic strength at the strings is almost the same as an Alnico 2 magnet pole piece. Placing the disc magnet in the middle of the pole piece will increase the magnetic field at the strings and will also change how the field propagates through the strings.
i think he said yes...
I was reading the claim of plagiarism. Perhaps the way that both parties demonstrated was the best and only way to achieve the intended outcome of boosting pickup output in the cheapest method possible. I’m sure many ideas and resulting processes are created independently of each other.
As an analogy and not as an example or for comparison: Newton and Leibnitz
Wow I always thought that was the quality of the copper wire to make the different, and of course the rounds around the poles.
Wire size and the number of winding does affect the output of the pickup. Simply put, the coil is responsible for "translating" the magnetic field variations into an electrical signal. This modification changes the magnetic field propagation of the pole pieces which changes how the strings affect the field variations in the coil. But it's much more complicated than that.
@@john.doesnt Thank you, I guess there is a lot of physics stuff one should know to understand it properly, that's why I'm so confused XD
Without a sound test I will have to listen the rooster again and again
superglue dissolves with acetone... use superglue.
acetone is found in nail polish remover, because nail polish chemically similar to super glue. in fact, even the non acetone type will work, but it takes forever. (just buying acetone from lowes is better though)
My main objection in using superglue is that it hinders you from safely further modifying the pickup. It needs a very strong solvent to undo it. Acetone is a solvent that can dissolve superglue but it can also dissolve almost any type of plastic, such as the plastic bobbin and the coating on the magnet wire. Just one drop of acetone on the plastic bobbin is sufficient to soften it and will most likely deform it. Less than a drop of acetone seeping into the coil is enough to cause a short circuit between the wires. If you are absolutely certain on your abilities that when you apply acetone it will only flow on the superglue, then by all means use superglue and apply acetone if you desire to do further modification. I have a method of applying acetone on superglue which will probably not affect the bobbin or the coil but it is tedious, time consuming and not 100% accurate. Unlike you, I would rather err on the side of caution.
It's also a good idea to match the type of your adhesive to the work it is expected to do. In this project, the magnetic strength of the neodymium is sufficient to make it stick to the pole pieces. However, lateral force applied to the junction can cause the magnet to move out of place. Thus, the need for a process or substance to keep it in place. I suggested using plastic varnish mainly for two reasons: (1) it sets and cures very fast, and (2) it is strong enough for the purpose it will serve. There are other alternatives to varnish. It will do you a lot of good to think and analyze what to use rather than go ahead with the first thing that comes to your mind. Superglue is an excellent adhesive but it is not advisable for this project. Strongest is not always the best.
Superglue is not chemically similar to nail polish. Superglue (cyanoacrylate) is more similar to acrylic plastic. Nail polish is more similar to lacquer.
Good luck on using superglue.
... you got upset when i said that? cmon man, don't be so salty. i didn't think about the possiblility of super glue affecting the plastic, although i doubt it would anyway. plastic varnish is not as readily available as super glue, and in order to use superglue without risking any mess, you can just pop out the pole pieces and glue the circle magnets to them while they are still seperated from the rest of the components.
after rereading the original comment i put, i realize that i could have said it better, but i am kinda a douche when i don't let myself sleep. lol
You directly contradicted what I have suggested in my video and I merely explained my position. I did not even disagree with you that you can use superglue. Just because I did not totally conform with your suggestion does not mean that I am upset. You have to understand that this is my tutorial video and I feel compelled to make an explanation on what I have mentioned in the video that you feel is not correct. Don't you think that I am well within my prerogative to defend my idea? Actually, I have previously addressed similar concerns like yours. It would have been easier for me to refer you to what I have already explained before but I extended you the courtesy of a direct reply. I endeavored to explain with sufficient detail and you're faulting me for that? Anyway, if you don't appreciate my explanation or method, shouldn't it be more appropriate for you to make a separate independent tutorial using your method? Otherwise, you should be more open to comment and discussion when you propose a different view.
If you read my reply, I said that you can use superglue but be careful when you decide to undo it. By itself, superglue will have very little or no effect on the plastic bobbin or the wire. If you're not going to further modify the pickup, then using superglue is fine. It's when you decide to undo it that it poses a problem. Applying acetone, as you suggested, is extremely risky and you have to be very careful. But, as I have said, if you can be precise in how you can apply acetone, you can go ahead and use acetone. But as for me, I would rather not risk it and, therefore, I do not recommend it. I have used superglue and acetone before and I know what I am talking about through experience.
Regarding your new suggestion to take the pole pieces out of the bobbin and apply superglue, keep in mind that neodymium magnets are very powerful and can be unwieldy even though the ones used in this project are tiny. Quite often, they will literally jump and snap to any material they are attracted to. If you can control the amount of glue you apply and prevent it from splattering when the magnet snaps to it, I suppose that what you are suggesting may be fine. But you have to work very fast centering the magnet on the pole pieces without getting it on your hands because superglue sets very fast. I have to admit that I have not tried this method simply because it is so much easier to brush varnish over the magnets after aligning them in place, just like what I did in the video. But there is still the problem of separating a superglued magnet when you decide to modify the pickup again. Even if you soak the pole piece with the neodymium superglued to it in acetone, it is still extremely difficult to separate them. You can try applying strong lateral force on the joint after applying acetone but this method sometimes chips the magnet or it may even break it. Neodymium magnets are very brittle and the ones used here are quite thin. You can use a blade or a knife to pry them apart but that is too risky and may also chip or break the magnet. Young kids are also watching this video and I do not want to expose them to unnecessary danger. Finally, the purpose of using adhesive to the magnet is not to make it stick to the pole pieces. The strength of the magnet is sufficient for that purpose. You only need the adhesive to ensure that the magnet stays in place. A light adhesive that can stick to metals and plastic will be good enough for this. In the video, I also placed tape over the magnets for an added measure to keep the magnets in place.
As an alternative to plastic varnish, I have suggested elsewhere in the comments that you can use white glue (craft glue) or enamel paint (preferably water based). However, using white glue or water based paint needs more time to set. If you just exerted some effort to read the comments you would know.
Expressing yourself without the benefit of your full faculties, especially when you are opposing a well researched procedure, is foolishness. The better part of wisdom is to keep quiet when you are not sure of what you are asserting and verify your thoughts before saying something not clear to you.
yeah... i just recommend superglue because it is something that can be found abundantly, and it is reletively cheap and very versitile for many applications. however, you are right that plastic varnish works better. i apoligize for being a douche, but the reason why i oppose using plastic varnish is because it is harder to find; i couldn't find it at my hardware stores. superglue on the other hand can be found at gas stations.
i didn't take into account the safety concerns with superglue, but compared to what i normally handle, superglue is friendly... i suppose that sometimes friction caused between two opposing ideas can help polish one's own ideas... you are smart, but the way you typed this was kind of condensending, which kind of suggests that i wouldn't have recieved the same depth in the reply as i would have had i been nicer...
I've been reading my replies and I did not find anything condescending in what I have said. You may have considered some of my statements as inappropriate by themselves but if you read them in context, I believe they are fair. In any event, I did not intend to offend you.
Great video, but I get tired of other peoples rebuttals trying to show off their knowledge of electronics. I know you have good working intelligence of electronics when you mentioned the reference to an RLC circuit. Good thinking. Now as far as maybe weakening the magnets slightly, to me it doesn't matter, I don't particularly like an over-wound or hot pickup, what matters to me is the tone, and that is the scope of this video. If I loose some magnetism but improve my tone for me, thats fine and I see an overall improvement in the whole pup circuit. Thanks.
How about nail polish to secure the magnets ???
Nail polish is usually made from lacquer and it gives a strong coat to hold the neodymium magnets in place. The problem with nail polish, and lacquer in general, is that it requires a strong solvent, lacquer thinner or acetone. to remove it, in the event that you may want to further modify your pickup. There is a danger that the acetone or lacquer thinner will melt the plastic bobbin or, worse, dissolve the insulating coat of the magnet wire of the pickups if it seeps in the coil.
You can try water based enamel paint or wood glue (elmer's glue), although I haven't used these for pickups. These will provide a strong thin coat and will peel when you scrape them off. The idea is to apply them as coating over the magnets and the bobbin, and not as an adhesive between the neodymium and the pole pieces. I guess, anything that sticks well to metals and plastic but is quite easy to remove will do... except boogers.
Good luck with your project. Merry Christmas!
Good One! It would be nice to have heard a comparison:)
Thanks! I still don't have a spare guitar to make recordings of a before and after the modification. See my other video on magnet simulations th-cam.com/video/s0OZy8w8Pr8/w-d-xo.html and read the description to get an idea on what to expect.
Are these pickups for Chicken Picken.
Yeah, I heard the chickens (rooster), and it sounded like he was getting very excited at the completion of the pickup mod.
wouldn't the bar style neodymium magnets work as well with less fiddling for orientation and placement? Great video, BTW. I loved the rooster's solo at the end!
I did not have an opportunity to experiment at length with bar magnets because early on, my neodymium bar magnets (60mm x 10mm x 2mm) broke. The concept I had in mind for attaining substantial improvement is to alter the propagation of the magnetic field. There is a very discernible distinction between pickups with a single bar magnet and individual magnet pole pieces. But to answer your question, using a single neodymium bar magnet will increase the volume output but will not substantially change the frequency response or "tone" of the pickup. Keep in mind that an increase in volume output is usually perceived as an improvement in "tone".
I'd like to hear how they sound
In the post script of the video, I mentioned that I don't have a before and after sound clips of the modification. I have been asked several times for audio samples of this neodymium magnet modification and I have been planning to make audio samples but I don't have a spare guitar and ceramic pickups to work on right now. I have also been having problems recording audio in my PCs. In the description of my other video on magnet simulation, which is a sequel to this video, I described the effect of the different configurations of the modification. If you're not prepared to believe that the modification will work out well for you and you're not willing to take the risk, I guess you will have to wait until I am able to make sample recordings. But consider this: the modification is easy, cheap and reversible, unless you follow somebody else's advice and use super glue.
If you ever do make the video of the sound, do a "before and after" where all three pickups have been given added magnets. I would love to hear if sustain is still there...
watching at 3x actually worked out perfectly
Do you think it's definitely worth doing and also can this vastly improve the sound of cheap pickups. Thanks for any feedback!☺
"Improve" is a relative term. The change will be noticeable but whether you will like it or not is another matter. If this is any indication of the quality of the change, it has been over a year since this video was posted and, as far as I can recall, nobody has commented that the modification was not good and only one has confirmed to have made the modification and had a good experience. I have not allowed or have deleted a few comments that contained too much profanity and as far as I can remember, they were really not relevant.
In any event, it's up to you to evaluate the risk and decide whether this is worth your time, effort and cheap pickups.
john doesnt ok....thanks!
WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU ADD THE NEODYMIUM MAGNET TO THE CERAMIC MAGNET IN THE BACK WITHOUT REMOVING THE CERAMIC?
There will be no appreciable change in "tone" if the ceramic magnet is not removed. The essence of the modification is to change the shape of the magnetic field propagation, which will change the "tone" of the pickup.
Even a 1x5mm neodymium disc has a fuktonne of magnetic pull compared to a typical ferrite (ceramic) bar magnet -- but if you don't find that excessive and hear a significant improvement, by all means go for it. I wouldn't bother myself -- a lot depends the coil being properly wound and no magnet change is going to fix a poorly wound coil.
The gauss level of the stock pole pieces (mild steel) opposite the location of an N52 neodymium disc magnet is roughly the same as the strength of Alnico 2 pole pieces, or maybe a little less. Perhaps you could share the conditions of your setup since your results are in great disparity with mine. I am intrigued at how a small disc 5mm x 1mm neodymium magnet at the bottom of a pickup can have greater strength than a ceramic magnet, measured at the top of the pickup, near the strings.
A pickup is an inductor, which is essentially a coil and a core. The characteristics of the core will determine the behavior of the magnetic field. It is the magnetic field that is in direct "contact" with the vibrating strings. The interaction between the string and the magnetic field is what is ultimately detected by the coil. The characteristics of the coil will determine how it will discriminate the changes in the field. The characteristics of both the coil and the core affects the the output of the pickup. In fact, the equation for the inductance of a coil includes the physical characteristics of the core, its size and material, as well as the physical characteristics of the coil. A change in the size of the pole pieces, physical size or field strength, will change the characteristics of the pickup in the same manner if the wire size or number of turns in the coil is changed.
You have one very typical misunderstanding of how pickups work. There are in fact only two basic kinds of electromagnetic transducers, moving coil transducers and moving magnet transducers. Guitar pickups are the latter type, and the moving magnets are the strings. The function of the permanent magnets in guitar pickups is to magnetize the strings so they in turn can function as moving magnets, thus inducing electrical currents in the coil that correspond to the motion of those strings. Your definition of an inductor is also incorrect -- an inductor doesn't need a core to have inductance, the presence of a core (which can actually be either inside or outside the coil) is simply a way to increase inductance without adding more turns of wire to the coil. The composition of the core material determines the linearity of the pickup's frequency response -- an unhardened "mild" steel core results in a pickup with some high frequency fall-off vs. hardened alloys like silicon steel that allow more high end response. The alnico variants used in Fender-style slug core pickups have far less permeability than ferrous poles and are quite non-linear in their contribution to inductance, which results in the rather uneven frequency response that contributes to the "Fendery" sound.
The total energy product of a magnet has two components, much like electricity has voltage and current. The string damping effect comes from one of those components, magnetic attaction measured in gauss, the other is demagnetization force, measured in oersted. It is the latter that contributes to the electrical output of the pickup, with the former essentially being an unavoidable nuisance. The balance between the two components in rare earth magnets is favorable to that respect, but the total energy product is very high, so it makes sense to limit that either by controlling the size of magnets like you did by using very small discs or by other engineering measures that accomplish a reduction in the total amount of energy magnetizing the strings. The late Bill Lawrence's "Microcoil" design is a great example of a guitar pickup skillfully engineered to make optimum use of neodymium without resorting to tiny individual magnets like you've used, an approach that would be too delicate and time consuming for efficient production. www.wildepickups.com/images/ddce0d3d0b169381f97ece44a4c11a84.jpg
The function of the magnet is not to magnetize the strings but to envelope the coil in a magnetic field. While it is true that the strings become magnetized when the magnetic field from the magnet passes through it, it is merely derived from the field of the magnet and it is temporary. What is inevitably detected by the coil is the motion of the field, its compression and expansion, that is within the coil from the magnetic pole pieces and not from the magnetized strings. The magnetic field propagates in bands or lines and they follow the path of least resistance or the path that is most magnetically permeable. One peculiar feature of the magnetic field lines is that they propagate in quantized levels, meaning that they do not intersect and they do not leap from one level to another. The field lines that reach the strings will flow through the length of the string until they loop back. The magnetic field lines will pass through it until it is saturated. When the string moves, the field lines that are flowing in it will also move. Since the field lines do not intersect, movement of the field lines in the string will cause all the field lines to move simultaneously in a sort of a quantum entanglement. This will cause movement of the electrons in the coil in relation to the movement of the magnetic field. The fluctuating movement of flow of electrons creates a fluctuating voltage level which appears as AC after passing through a DC blocking capacitor in the amplifier, guitar or measuring equipment such as a voltmeter or oscilloscope. Without the DC blocking capacitor, the output of the pickup is a fluctuating DC signal.
Your explanation of the function of the magnet in a pickup will not be able to explain the following situations. Put a magnet close to the pole pieces such that they repel each other. The pole pieces cannot be said that it is magnetizing the other magnet and the field of the said magnet cannot reach the coil of the pickup because it is being repelled by the magnetic field of the pole pieces. But when you move that magnet, it will create a signal output from the coil. The reason is that the compression and expansion of the magnetic field of the pole pieces caused by the movement of the other magnet is creating a signal from the coil. Now, let's change the setup. Remove the pole pieces and place small disc magnets or a ceramic bar magnet on top of the pickup such that it is between the coil and the strings. It cannot be said that the magnetized string is creating or inducing a field in the coil since the magnet is between the coil and the string and its magnetic field is stronger and closer to the coil. But when the string vibrates, it will create a signal from the coil. Again, this can be explained by the movement of the field of the magnet that is within the coil caused by the moving field in the string at the opposite side.
Since the magnetic field is propagating in all directions from its poles looping from one end to the other, it is susceptible to be "disturbed" by stray fields from all directions. One solution to this problem is to place a "magnet shield" to redirect and control the magnetic field, to a certain degree, around the pickup. A permeable metal plate that is a little larger than the coil placed at the bottom of the pickup will change the shape of the magnetic field and reduce noise but it will also change the frequency response of the coil. The base plate in a tele pickup functions as a magnet shield.
The very nature of how inductors work and how they are constructed shows that they have cores. All inductors have cores. The absence of a tangible object does not mean that it does not have a core, it only means that it has an "air core" which is a core with mu0. A plastic or ceramic core is considered an air core. You also have misconceptions about the function of the core. The presence of a magnetically permeable material as a core is not merely to increase the inductance of the coil, which will change the frequency response of the coil. Its shape and material will determine its efficiency in transferring or converting energy and also its susceptibility to stray fields and noise. Higher permeability pole pieces appear to have a "clearer definition". I have tried using hardened steel as pole pieces and they have more pronounced high midrange frequencies. With high permeability pole pieces, it is advisable to keep them short. The only problem with hardened steel is that it is almost impossible to cut and form them with ordinary tools. One solution I found is to use hardened steel set screws which you can buy according to the diameter and length that you need, or at least close to what you need. Dimension measurements are available in imperial and metric units. I have another video on this type of modification (th-cam.com/video/Zy_DmaYppns/w-d-xo.html).
In my other video on magnetic field simulation (th-cam.com/video/s0OZy8w8Pr8/w-d-xo.html), it shows how the location of the disc magnet can have an effect on the "tone" of the pickup. Knowing how the field propagates in free air or space and through the string, showing which portions of it may have a greater effect on the field, in conjunction with the properties of the coil, can tell you what the characteristics of the pickup will have. In the description, I described how this relates to the output, as I perceived it. I even suggested that placing the magnet in the middle of the pole piece might be the ideal location for a disc magnet. I have tried this and I find it very appealing.
My understanding of how a pickup functions as a transducer comes from a world-famous expert -- one of only two people to have designed pickups for both Gibson and Fender -- with whom I studied for over a decade on and off. A good deal of your verbose explanation(s) apparently comes from trial and error experimentation with a rather incomplete theoretical background in the pertinent electrodynamics. As a result, there is a combination of accurate information -- e.g. different core materials result in different frequency response curves in otherwise identical coils -- and misconceptions/generalizations in what you write. E.g., it is conventional to call a coil without a ferromagnetic core an "air coil," but this is misleading because such a coil would function exactly the same in a vacuum -- IOW, it actually doesn't have a core that functions as such. FYI, you can buy silicon steel, suitable stainless steels, and even very highly permeable permalloy in shapes suitable for pole pieces right off the shelf, so there's no need to cut or machine anything in order to use such materials in a pickup.
I will not bother correcting you anymore -- being nearly 70 years old I have neither the time nor the ambition to be seen as a pickup guru to the U-Toob masses. Moreover, one doesn't have to possess a thorough understanding of this stuff to make a good pickup -- guys like Seymour Duncan, not to mention old-timers like Leo Fender and Seth Lover, knew a good deal less than you do and have succeeded in making world famous pickups anyway. Good luck -- IMO you stand a better chance than most. :-)
Sir, your reply was sent to my spam folder by TH-cam and I only discovered it just now and approved it. I really do not relish in describing myself but your reply leaves me no choice. I would like to apologize now as I foresee this as another "verbose explanation."
How I wish it was true that what I know comes from trial and error experimentation because that would mean that I have access to sophisticated equipment to test what I have described, such as manifestations of quantized levels and quantum entanglement. These are concepts in theoretical physics and quantum mechanics which an average learner like me can only read from textbooks. I am not tutored by only one mentor so I do not carry intellectual prejudices. I have read many journals, articles and publications and papers from university libraries or their department resources that are available online from Princeton, Cambridge, Harvard, MIT, etc. You can Google these papers. I have also read a lot of books. It is rather interesting that you find that I have an "incomplete theoretical background in the pertinent electrodynamics" but what is it in electricity and electronics, analog or digital, as a field of study, that you find related to pickups, aside from the study of inductors and electromagnetism, which I have not already discussed? What aspect of inductors and electromagnetism, and magnetism in general, that you are expecting to be discussed which I have not touched upon?
With all due respect, sir, I have not found any article, publication or paper, even those that have been archived, that supports your description of the operation of a pickup. Perhaps, you misinterpreted or misunderstood what has been conveyed to you. Or you may have drawn strained conclusions from illustrations depicting a magnetized string over a coil. You are correct in so far as the string is magnetized but you are totally wrong to say that it is the magnetic field of the string that is inducing EMF in the coil. There is nothing to support such a conclusion. In the first place, it is the magnetic flux of the pole pieces that is causing the string to be magnetized. And, second, the coil is surrounded by the magnetic flux of the pole pieces. It stands to reason, therefore, any induced EMF in the coil would be coming from the magnetic flux of the pole pieces.
For example, sir, this paper from the Physics Department of Princeton (www.physics.princeton.edu/~mcdonald/examples/guitar.pdf) (link was provided by GCKelloch in our discussion below), in presenting a very intriguing and interesting pickup phenomenon, follows the model I described. I did not make up my description of how the pickup works but merely simplified it, omitting to mention that the string is magnetized preferring, instead, to dwell on the fact that magnetic flux is flowing through it, which is the same thing but avoiding the misconception that the string is an independent magnet.
Assuming without conceding that your model is correct, in the two case studies I described in my previous comment, you failed to explain those phenomena using the model you are espousing. The world-famous expert on pickups you relied upon cannot argue here to support his thesis but you are not also supporting him by failing to properly describe the properties of his model to explain the case studies. Perhaps you can present a paper that he wrote related to this matter, or link to it, or a discussion involving it, so that I can better appreciate where you are coming from. I would also like to point out, up to this time, you have not yet explained how a tiny neodymium disc magnet on an iron rod (pole piece) can have a magnetic strength greater than a ceramic bar magnet on a pickup. I respectfully submit that you have now even contradicted your earlier statement that, "no magnet change is going to fix a poorly wound coil".
Sir, you mentioned that I have misconceptions and I stated mere generalizations but its unfortunate that you failed to mention which ones are these from my "verbose explanation(s)", leaving me no opportunity to explain and expound on those supposed generalizations or misconceptions. However, you mentioned that the "air core" that I referred to in my reply is a misconception because it is the same as vacuum, and therefore, according to you, it is the same as no core. I agree that air core is the same as vacuum and its permeability actually presumes a state of vacuum. However, that state of permeability (vacuum) is still a physical state that describes such core. It is still a core but its value is mu0. Textbook authors refer to it as an "air core" and not as a "vacuum core". In fact, plastic and ceramic cores are considered air cores but they are not actually vacuum. As I have already said, coils have cores by the very nature of how they function. An air core or vacuum core has mu0 permeability but it is still a core. All books treat air cores as real cores, integral to the function of the inductor.
I am not trying to project myself as a "guru" of any sort. I am not even an expert by any stretch. I am continuously learning as I try to understand so many things by reading and listening to lectures. Although I still have a few more ideas on pickups, I have no plans to go into serious pickup research and/or production. I am only trying to find a way to improve crap and/or scrap pickups. I am merely explaining aspects of the video I presented. But suffice it to say that technical matters can be simplified. As Einstein said, if you cannot explain it to a bar maid, you do not understand it, or something to that effect.
Both of us agree that one doesn't have to posses great wealth of information and knowledge to make or modify a pickup. That much is our common ground. I think my video presentation has sufficiently demonstrated that.
What is the final result?
The immediate direct proximate penultimate result is that I am happy.
where are the 'before' and 'after' clips (recordings) of your guitar to compare the change in sound? ... otherwise how do we know its worth doing this??
Doing his modification may not be worth your while. I am not advising nor suggesting that everybody should do the pickup modification shown in this video. I am merely describing a procedure on how to make a cheap pickup sound great, that is according to my perception. Sound preferences are very subjective. It is intended for those who do not like the sound of their pickup but do not want to spend a lot of money. There is no guarantee that you will like the result of the modification. Even if there is a comparative data of the modification, there is no guarantee that the result will be the same. Do not do the modification if you are uncomfortable with modifying your pickup. Do the modification at your own risk.
Glad I know how to read!