As a conservator for a local coin shop, I've done a lot of dipping. I would never dip a coin as heavily tarnished as your test coin because black tarnish heavily etches into the coin and leaves unpleasant white haze after dipping. To keep the exposure to the dipping solution to a minimum, I used a Q-tip to speed up the removal of the more tarnished areas. The hazing is most noticeable on proof mirror surfaces, which should only be dipped under the lightest tarnishing conditions. The best dipping results come from BU coins that have heavy frosting and which have unsightly light tarnish. In that case a blast white finish can be achieved. I've had spectacular results from refreshing original rolls of Benjamin half dollars. Not all tarnishes are the same, however. Some come off very easily, others are more stubborn and may give disappointing results, even when not that dark. Tarnish is good for covering up light hairlines from earlier cleaning. Some "MS" coins, turn out to be AU Details after dipping.
When I first saw his 1884 Morgan I thought there was no need to dip it. It wasn't a MS coin. The lower the grade the worse a coin looks white. Black silver coins should never be dipped.
I love your idea of trying these experiments. I hope you keep going on this idea, and add additional cleaning tests such as using acetone on copper pennies and removing haze on 70s proof Ike dollars, etc..
I've had some success in diluted dipping solution to remove milk spots with gettimg grades in 63 and 64. Also in removing haze from older proof coins. Here again I think diluted Ezest works well in moderation. Thanks Ben.
What a great experiment. I agree with what you said about trying this demonstration on an unc with flashier luster. Thanks Ben. I really thought this was a great way to show what "DIPPING" can do to luster.
I'm kind of in the middle on this. The coin was definitely brighter after dips and you could see the lustre but it also made marks more visible. The toning hides the lustre sometimes but it also hides marks to the naked eye which I think improves "eye appeal". I think this particular coin looked better before dipping mainly because the dark toning around the letters didn't come off.
Nice! Love the experiment. It seemed to still look great with some luster. I think the section that was only dipped once, although not blast white, looked the best for the age and condition of the coin. It clearly had not altered the original surface as there was still a light layer of toning.
I’m definitely dipping averse, whether it’s skinny dipping when strangers are around, double dipping a tortilla chip in salsa or guacamole at a party, or triple dipping a coin with a nice patina !!! 🤔 😲😳😬 🤣😂🤣 ⚾️⚾️⚾️
I think it depends on the toning of the coin. I personally think the toning on this coin was ugly. A quick dip improved the appearance and luster of the coin, particularly in the fields. On the other hand, if you have a beautifully toned coin, especially rainbow toning, then I would never dip it.
At 6:30, you got the dip lines reversed. The tail feathers were part of the first dip while the “TRUST” was part of the second dip. This is because you flip the coin vertically to see the reverse orientation.
I believe it's a personal thing. I enjoy a gunkie coin. While dipping does make it prettier and more presentable. To me, used is just fine. It being dirty just gives it a better story to tell if it could
It actually looks like the worse the toning, the worse the coin will come up regardless. An ugly toned coin without black areas is the best candidate. It also shows that it doesn't destroy luster until you do it too long or too often. Bad results are often when a coin was dipped earlier and then retoned badly and then it is dipped again and ouch.
Lovely coin to start. I haven't dipped many coins at all, but have used acetone to remove harmful residues. Toning like that should not be removed imo. It was interesting to see the difference on a single coin, though. Thanks for the demonstration!
I've never dipped a coin personally, though now I'm sure I have many that have been after watching your experiment here. I assumed it was quite noticeable if one had been, now I'm not sure of that opinion. But it did look that leaving the morgan in longer does affect the natural appearance in a negative view. Thanks for doing this for us ! Russ
I bought an 84-S from an online auction a few months ago. It was listed as uncirculated but I knew It was not. Maybe the workers accidentally mislabeled it. I thought it was a high VF or low AU. Such a beautiful coin for not being BU. The strike is great and there is a lot of luster still shining through in the fields but no luster on the cheek The luster looks like the coin may have been proof like before being circulated. There is enough luster left that the coin has a cameo appearance at certain angles and is a bit blinding if the light is reflected directly in your eyes. The wear is very even with only tiny hits here and there. I sent the coin to PCGS along with 7 other coins. One of the other coins I sent was an 1893-CC. The 93-CC is very circulated with only the tiniest hints of luster here and there. It has that dull grey look of a very circulated coin. Surprisingly PCGS graded the 93-CC VF40 and the beautiful 84-S only VF45. Just a 5 point spread between those two coins. Of course the VF-40 on the 93 was a big win for me but I was just surprised that the two coins were graded so close to each other. If anybody would like to compare the two coins, The 84-S is 47285217 and the 93-CC is 47285218. If anybody has any comments that would help me learn I would appreciate it. Thanks, Wayne.
I don't think I could tell a well dipped coin. This certainly did not give me a visual cue that I can spot easily. Your lessons allow me to spot a cleaned coin a mile away. But this is going to take more than this one example to pick up on for me.
Thanks so much for doing this... I have been contemplating having a few coins sent in for restoration but my fear has been, what if I don't like it 😖 and seeing how much the first dip changed the appearance (i do think it was an improvement in this case) I'm worried how my coins might turn out... so I'll just use my vouchers and keep them original! Thanks again Ben! Your knowledge and wisdom are very much appreciated!
Be careful sending coins in for conservation. You really need to know if a coin is a candidate. I have heard so many stories of coins be conserved only to come back as "Details Cleaned". Kind of ironic but true.
Coin dipping chemical solutions such as e-Zest are corrosive, because they contain 5% sulfuric acid + 7% thiourea which are toxic ingredients and are to be avoided from skin contact. The method to remove particularly stubborn tarnish areas is to use a Q-Tip cotton swab dipped in the coin cleaning solution. Apply it specifically onto the tarnish areas and allow it sufficient time to dissolve the darkened areas. When the tarnish areas have been dissolved, then the entire coin can be dipped to get an overall bright finish. This localized technique is to avoid over-dipping of a coin. Each time the silver coin is dipped into the coin cleaning solution, then a very thin outer surface layer of the silver becomes minutely etched away with acid. When dipping a coin, it is best to decant some of the chemical solution from the original jar into a smaller container for the actual dipping. Decanting into a smaller is to avoid dipping the coin into original jar which contaminates the entire solution. When the original jar becomes contaminated, then is no longer as potent as it was before and repeated dipping into the original jar further reduces its effectiveness.
I've heard coin dealers refer to over dipped coins as being BURNT. It's another way of saying the luster is gone and the coin looks dull. I've accidentally bought one or two of them at auction. The only thing I could do re-auction them at either Heritage or StacksBowers for a loss. Both PCGS and NGC will grade burnt coins but most collectors don't like them.
Which specific product did you use for this test-EZest, MS70, Acetone, other? Using this test as an example, one coin can be used rather than dipping several coins to better understand the final result. Thanks Ben
Great experiment. So would you rather own this original coin or with a single dip? Agree with the commenter that said it was too heavily tarnished to be a good candidate for dipping. I think I would now have extreme caution when considering a coin with crusty tarnish in the stars or design details, but bright fields.
Another excellent educational video. Though it pains me to see an otherwise original coin sacrificed, it's for a good cause to explain the pitfalls of cleaning coins. I learned to spot that telltale sign of cleaning where bright fields are accompanied by tarnish stuck in the corners of the devices. Your video shows that well. I can never unsee that on coins now that I am sensitized to it. And so many coins from the 1800s and more so 1700s bear those scars. Thanks Ben.
Sure - I'm speaking generally about the genre of "improving" a coin's appearance. Chemical and mechanical techniques often, though not always, travel together. I see and have owned coins where light cloth marks indicate likely attempts to further the dipping process.
Dipping for 1-2 seconds, an unc Morgan with uniform dull toning is ok. Dipping a vf finely toned Morgan not ok. I agree, dip the experimental coin all the way to see if it looks brilliant or dull.
I'm not usually very concerned with grade on a coin. Some coins look better at XF than they do at AU to me. Morgan's look great to me when they're in that XF area, but the uncirculated ones often look worse to me. The older the coin, the more likely I don't want it perfect. It's about the story, too. I coin that had been in 1000's of pockets over centuries is cooler than one that set in a box the whole time. Although, some Roman coins look great to me in UN lC condition, too. Someone tucking a coin away 2000 years ago and never being touched csn be cool too
Since it's already cooked by the dipping, I wonder how far you can go. Completely submerge the coin for 2 minutes, and show the difference, that might be even more striking. "How many licks to the center of a Tootsie Pop". How many dips to the death of luster?
An AI poem on this subject: In numismatic halls with whispers keen, Debates arise o'er tarnish clean. To dip or not, collectors fret, A question posed with much regret. On one hand, shine brings youthful glow, As if time's touch did never show. But others claim the tarnish speaks, Of years and age in subtle streaks. For some, a coin that's bright and clear, In auction halls may fetch more dear. Yet purists say, "Let aging grace, Bestow its tint upon the face." In essence, choice lies in your hand, To dip or not, where do you stand? Each method has its pros and flaws, A subject bound by personal laws. So ponder well before you act, Consider history, that's a fact. For in each coin, both old and new, Lies untold stories, ever true.
You left it in the solution for 20 seconds...that's all? I recall someone on a message board wondering why their dip turned out so bad when they "only" left the coin in the solution for 5 minutes and not overnight. Go for the completely dull or even a shipwreck-effect. Nasty toning.... 😛
Hello all , I have a : 1922-S Peace Dollar 90% Silver , I can tell right off the bat that it has been cleaned before , It has really nice detail but it is really dull with no luster or shine , ( Just white Looking ) Is there anything I can do to bring back the luster / shine ? I have a small Wizz wheel with low speed but don't want to polish the coin & Don't even know what type of Matel polish to use , But like I said would not want to polish.
I’ve heard stories where people send in coins for grading and the grading company contacts the collector to recommend “conservation,” only to then have the coin graded as cleaned.
As a conservator for a local coin shop, I've done a lot of dipping. I would never dip a coin as heavily tarnished as your test coin because black tarnish heavily etches into the coin and leaves unpleasant white haze after dipping. To keep the exposure to the dipping solution to a minimum, I used a Q-tip to speed up the removal of the more tarnished areas. The hazing is most noticeable on proof mirror surfaces, which should only be dipped under the lightest tarnishing conditions. The best dipping results come from BU coins that have heavy frosting and which have unsightly light tarnish. In that case a blast white finish can be achieved. I've had spectacular results from refreshing original rolls of Benjamin half dollars. Not all tarnishes are the same, however. Some come off very easily, others are more stubborn and may give disappointing results, even when not that dark. Tarnish is good for covering up light hairlines from earlier cleaning. Some "MS" coins, turn out to be AU Details after dipping.
When I first saw his 1884 Morgan I thought there was no need to dip it. It wasn't a MS coin. The lower the grade the worse a coin looks white. Black silver coins should never be dipped.
@ginaparker-langley What? Never. LOL.
Baking soda and aluminum is a fun experiment, too.
Back in the 80s & 90s, this was done quite a bit; thanks for the educational.
Great Presentation Ben!! Thank you!!
dippity do da was the best line of the day Ben and love how you help all the coin geeks out their😀😁😁😁keep it up👍👍👍👍👍👍
I have it on good source that Ben, “The Coin Geek”🤓 uses Dippity Do Da to style his hair. 😉
As long as the coin isn't scratched up, I'll buy a dipped coin over a toned coin when possible. Dark black toning is a nonstarter for me.
amen to that
I love your idea of trying these experiments. I hope you keep going on this idea, and add additional cleaning tests such as using acetone on copper pennies and removing haze on 70s proof Ike dollars, etc..
I've had some success in diluted dipping solution to remove milk spots with gettimg grades in 63 and 64. Also in removing haze from older proof coins. Here again I think diluted Ezest works well in moderation.
Thanks Ben.
like on the early brown box proof Ikes!
What a great experiment. I agree with what you said about trying this demonstration on an unc with flashier luster. Thanks Ben. I really thought this was a great way to show what "DIPPING" can do to luster.
I'm kind of in the middle on this. The coin was definitely brighter after dips and you could see the lustre but it also made marks more visible. The toning hides the lustre sometimes but it also hides marks to the naked eye which I think improves "eye appeal".
I think this particular coin looked better before dipping mainly because the dark toning around the letters didn't come off.
Nice! Love the experiment. It seemed to still look great with some luster. I think the section that was only dipped once, although not blast white, looked the best for the age and condition of the coin. It clearly had not altered the original surface as there was still a light layer of toning.
I’m definitely dipping averse, whether it’s skinny dipping when strangers are around, double dipping a tortilla chip in salsa or guacamole at a party, or triple dipping a coin with a nice patina !!! 🤔 😲😳😬 🤣😂🤣 ⚾️⚾️⚾️
Love the video. I think cleaning done properly enhances the beauty of the coin, but too chicken to do it myself
I think it depends on the toning of the coin. I personally think the toning on this coin was ugly. A quick dip improved the appearance and luster of the coin, particularly in the fields. On the other hand, if you have a beautifully toned coin, especially rainbow toning, then I would never dip it.
It also makes a difference to move the coin back-and-forth in the solution, of course without Sloshing… lol
Very educational! Thanks for sacrificing a coin so we could all learn. I've always been afraid to "dip" my toe into the waters in this area.
At 6:30, you got the dip lines reversed. The tail feathers were part of the first dip while the “TRUST” was part of the second dip. This is because you flip the coin vertically to see the reverse orientation.
Thanks- I am not a scientist . Next time I need adult supervision
Fantastic video love it
Thank you for doing it
I believe it's a personal thing. I enjoy a gunkie coin. While dipping does make it prettier and more presentable. To me, used is just fine. It being dirty just gives it a better story to tell if it could
Very informative video. Thanks
Cool video thanks!
😊
It actually looks like the worse the toning, the worse the coin will come up regardless. An ugly toned coin without black areas is the best candidate. It also shows that it doesn't destroy luster until you do it too long or too often. Bad results are often when a coin was dipped earlier and then retoned badly and then it is dipped again and ouch.
What a cool concept for a video!
Awesome video! Thank you. I have a trade dollar that obviously lost luster from dipping. Still a nice coin but it is more grey than silver.
The only kind of dipping I do is dipping in acetone to get crud like glue off 😆
Great vid esp the end through the M.
Lovely coin to start. I haven't dipped many coins at all, but have used acetone to remove harmful residues. Toning like that should not be removed imo. It was interesting to see the difference on a single coin, though. Thanks for the demonstration!
Very educational. THank you sir
Once, twice, three times a dip!
Thanks for the video!
I've never dipped a coin personally, though now I'm sure I have many that have been after watching your experiment here. I assumed it was quite noticeable if one had been, now I'm not sure of that opinion. But it did look that leaving the morgan in longer does affect the natural appearance in a negative view.
Thanks for doing this for us !
Russ
that coin looks just fine as it is. would like to have an 84-S in that grade.
I bought an 84-S from an online auction a few months ago. It was listed as uncirculated but I knew It was not. Maybe the workers accidentally mislabeled it. I thought it was a high VF or low AU. Such a beautiful coin for not being BU. The strike is great and there is a lot of luster still shining through in the fields but no luster on the cheek The luster looks like the coin may have been proof like before being circulated. There is enough luster left that the coin has a cameo appearance at certain angles and is a bit blinding if the light is reflected directly in your eyes. The wear is very even with only tiny hits here and there. I sent the coin to PCGS along with 7 other coins. One of the other coins I sent was an 1893-CC. The 93-CC is very circulated with only the tiniest hints of luster here and there. It has that dull grey look of a very circulated coin. Surprisingly PCGS graded the 93-CC VF40 and the beautiful 84-S only VF45. Just a 5 point spread between those two coins. Of course the VF-40 on the 93 was a big win for me but I was just surprised that the two coins were graded so close to each other. If anybody would like to compare the two coins, The 84-S is 47285217 and the 93-CC is 47285218. If anybody has any comments that would help me learn I would appreciate it. Thanks, Wayne.
I don't think I could tell a well dipped coin. This certainly did not give me a visual cue that I can spot easily. Your lessons allow me to spot a cleaned coin a mile away. But this is going to take more than this one example to pick up on for me.
I remember back in the day, you can easily tell if a coin store was dipping coins by wether or not the owner had blue finger tips!
Thanks so much for doing this... I have been contemplating having a few coins sent in for restoration but my fear has been, what if I don't like it 😖 and seeing how much the first dip changed the appearance (i do think it was an improvement in this case) I'm worried how my coins might turn out... so I'll just use my vouchers and keep them original!
Thanks again Ben! Your knowledge and wisdom are very much appreciated!
Be careful sending coins in for conservation. You really need to know if a coin is a candidate. I have heard so many stories of coins be conserved only to come back as "Details Cleaned". Kind of ironic but true.
Coin dipping chemical solutions such as e-Zest are corrosive, because they contain 5% sulfuric acid + 7% thiourea which are toxic ingredients and are to be avoided from skin contact. The method to remove particularly stubborn tarnish areas is to use a Q-Tip cotton swab dipped in the coin cleaning solution. Apply it specifically onto the tarnish areas and allow it sufficient time to dissolve the darkened areas. When the tarnish areas have been dissolved, then the entire coin can be dipped to get an overall bright finish. This localized technique is to avoid over-dipping of a coin. Each time the silver coin is dipped into the coin cleaning solution, then a very thin outer surface layer of the silver becomes minutely etched away with acid. When dipping a coin, it is best to decant some of the chemical solution from the original jar into a smaller container for the actual dipping. Decanting into a smaller is to avoid dipping the coin into original jar which contaminates the entire solution. When the original jar becomes contaminated, then is no longer as potent as it was before and repeated dipping into the original jar further reduces its effectiveness.
I've heard coin dealers refer to over dipped coins as being BURNT. It's another way of saying the luster is gone and the coin looks dull. I've accidentally bought one or two of them at auction. The only thing I could do re-auction them at either Heritage or StacksBowers for a loss. Both PCGS and NGC will grade burnt coins but most collectors don't like them.
Coin content of the year ❤
Which specific product did you use for this test-EZest, MS70, Acetone, other?
Using this test as an example, one coin can be used rather than dipping several coins to better understand the final result.
Thanks Ben
Great experiment. So would you rather own this original coin or with a single dip? Agree with the commenter that said it was too heavily tarnished to be a good candidate for dipping. I think I would now have extreme caution when considering a coin with crusty tarnish in the stars or design details, but bright fields.
Another excellent educational video. Though it pains me to see an otherwise original coin sacrificed, it's for a good cause to explain the pitfalls of cleaning coins. I learned to spot that telltale sign of cleaning where bright fields are accompanied by tarnish stuck in the corners of the devices. Your video shows that well. I can never unsee that on coins now that I am sensitized to it. And so many coins from the 1800s and more so 1700s bear those scars. Thanks Ben.
He didn't "clean" the coin, he merely dipped it. There's a big difference, both in practice and in terminology.
Sure - I'm speaking generally about the genre of "improving" a coin's appearance. Chemical and mechanical techniques often, though not always, travel together. I see and have owned coins where light cloth marks indicate likely attempts to further the dipping process.
Dipping for 1-2 seconds, an unc Morgan with uniform dull toning is ok. Dipping a vf finely toned Morgan not ok. I agree, dip the experimental coin all the way to see if it looks brilliant or dull.
Brilliant
With a soda blaster, some wax, and a bit of practice you can get all that luster back. Gotta up your coin doctor game 🤣
You wipe it with the soda, and peel off the wax?
@@X9523-z3v wax to cover the fields then soda blast the devices with a .5 micron or finer material. It works really well on Benjis
For science!!
I'm not usually very concerned with grade on a coin. Some coins look better at XF than they do at AU to me. Morgan's look great to me when they're in that XF area, but the uncirculated ones often look worse to me.
The older the coin, the more likely I don't want it perfect.
It's about the story, too. I coin that had been in 1000's of pockets over centuries is cooler than one that set in a box the whole time.
Although, some Roman coins look great to me in UN lC condition, too. Someone tucking a coin away 2000 years ago and never being touched csn be cool too
Since it's already cooked by the dipping, I wonder how far you can go. Completely submerge the coin for 2 minutes, and show the difference, that might be even more striking.
"How many licks to the center of a Tootsie Pop". How many dips to the death of luster?
An AI poem on this subject: In numismatic halls with whispers keen,
Debates arise o'er tarnish clean.
To dip or not, collectors fret,
A question posed with much regret.
On one hand, shine brings youthful glow,
As if time's touch did never show.
But others claim the tarnish speaks,
Of years and age in subtle streaks.
For some, a coin that's bright and clear,
In auction halls may fetch more dear.
Yet purists say, "Let aging grace,
Bestow its tint upon the face."
In essence, choice lies in your hand,
To dip or not, where do you stand?
Each method has its pros and flaws,
A subject bound by personal laws.
So ponder well before you act,
Consider history, that's a fact.
For in each coin, both old and new,
Lies untold stories, ever true.
The solution will also work a little differently, sometimes quicker on the heavier stuff if it is warmed up
First Donald 😊
Dipping, btw, made the coin look like some of the Chinese fakes.
Hi DP. Someone beat us both!
You left it in the solution for 20 seconds...that's all? I recall someone on a message board wondering why their dip turned out so bad when they "only" left the coin in the solution for 5 minutes and not overnight. Go for the completely dull or even a shipwreck-effect. Nasty toning.... 😛
Hello all , I have a : 1922-S Peace Dollar 90% Silver , I can tell right off the bat that it has been cleaned before , It has really nice detail but it is really dull with no luster or shine , ( Just white Looking ) Is there anything I can do to bring back the luster / shine ? I have a small Wizz wheel with low speed but don't want to polish the coin & Don't even know what type of Matel polish to use , But like I said would not want to polish.
Great vid Ben…
Is dipping using that solution a no-no for copper or bronze coins?
In this case yes because copper cleaner is a different chemical.
@@flippensweet3 thanks. Can you recommend a cleaner for copper and brass coins?
Acetone is safe on copper and brass. It’s often used to remove PVC damage.
@@PoorRichardsAlmanac MSR bronze and copper cleaner
@@flippensweet3 thank you
Comments down below.
What happens if you spray the dip on the coin and use air to remove the gunk?
Time dipped can be your friend or your enemy,
Better using 2 things. Multiple coins and using Chinese reps
Just curious what % of raw coins that come to you today do you question have been treated in some way Ben
E zest w q tip for spots little tooth paste to restore dullness on spots if you q tipped that look like unc 25$ coins don't matter nobody gonna grade
Nice video always fun to see what happens to coins when you experiment bill Nye
e-Z-est as 1,2,3
*SACRILEGE!*
I LOVE DIPPING!
I say dip away
No one will care in 100 years
Have you ever tried 40% hydrogen peroxide.
Dip a coin perfectly yourself it is graded as cleaned. Get the grading company to do it and it is not graded as cleaned.
Just a scam.
I’ve heard stories where people send in coins for grading and the grading company contacts the collector to recommend “conservation,” only to then have the coin graded as cleaned.
Do u wanna sell that coin
Me, first
*FIRST*
NOT!
Dipping geek, stop