Orange Amplifiers - Dark Series Shootout
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Orange Amplifiers - Dark Series Shootout
Hey guys,
I decided to compare 2 of the Dark series amplifiers by Orange, as i know the B channel on the Dual Dark 100 is basically the dark terror.....
SO! which is the better amp for the money you'll spend?
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/ rabeaafro
/ rabeaafro
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I’m a proud owner of the dual dark 100. It is one of the most greatest sounding amps ever created and, to me, was worth every penny.
I've noticed one or two people saying "why do you use a 100W Marshall?"
Because I use it for its functionality, and the Marshall sound. I rely on its functionality and foot awry hung for live applications. Couldn't care less what wattage it is.
15 is easily enough for live. I have heard it first hand, and gigged with rob using one. Trust me....
Not saying it'll handle anything other than rock/metal, but seriously...
It's mainly due to the footswitchable features. Thing is I haven't changed amps since I bought it when I had no idea about Amps, in hindsight I wouldn't have bought smaller wattage. But yeah it's fair play to call me out. My point still stands and I think 100 watts is too much
***** Yes I agree that 100W might be too much since I can't get my 50W marshall's master volume past 3 without the sound tech killing me. However I still think that most of these small amps won't cut the mustard live. Reason being that most of them have EL84 in the power section combined with a high gain preamp section, and when you crank that they sound mushy, overly spiky and just plain nasty. Some might like this sound and of course not all the small amps sound the same, but the many I tried so far sounded the same. Good up until 6-7 on the master volume (which is just not loud enough unless you want to get the majority of your guitar tone through the monitors...) and after that they become a mess. Most people think that amps sound the best when everything is cranked, but most people never crank their amps to 11 to actually hear how shitty some amps sound when cranked. So I would rather play with master on 3 on a 50W (and have lots and lots of headroom) then cranking a 15wat and have nowhere to go while still being too quiet. Cheers!
p1nzor I agree, I had the Dark Terror and I really don't understand the people who can gig with it, let alone rehearse... With the volume and gain all cranked you almost are at good levels but the sound is so compressed and harsh. If you get your sound only from monitors yeah maybe it's giggable, but who would want an amp that's giggable but not loud enough for rehearsals??? Imo these 15 watt lunchbox style amps can sound amazing but are only good for studio work. Also people say 100 watt is just too much, wel imo I like the bass response of a 100 watt at volume 4 more than a 50 watt at volume 5 or 6.... a 100 watt head is not that much louder than a 50 watt, it just has more headroom !
I use the dark terror live also, I place the sm57 on the cab into a JBL pa speaker. That's the only way I use it live
Were you playing with a really loud drummer or on bigger stages or something? I would have thought the same thing, but I've used this bad boy with two different drummers, both who know when they need to play a little louder and a little quieter - the Dark Terror can keep up, even with my buddy's 40w Fender tubed amp. I put the volume on half with a G12H30 and cut through pretty well. You're right, cranked up it doesn't sound good, but mine holds together really well until about 2 or 3 o'clock on the volume. The DT is great for small gigs and house shows, but I wouldn't want it unmic'd for medium-large shows.
I still like the thicker sound of the 100 watt, but only Ch. A. Guess I am in the minority. I thought Ch. A sounded more open as well. B sounded too trebly and muffled at the same time. Love Ch. A, had that thick chewy elastic sound. That would be a great amp for Sabbath type tunes. Probably not going to get a refined sound, more of a doom metal/classic rock amp imho. Not a knock on the amp, just has it's own thing that it does well.
The dark terror probably sounds less fizzy in full power mode. I know my dual terror sounds a lot more fizzy and not as open in half power. There really is a difference in tone just between the full and half power settings.
This is the BEST video I've seen not caring about the people watching it rather than making a sales pitch for a company damn most brutal video ever that is what's up thank you FRO!
Volume up + treble down = no fizz
I agree with you. Would sound better cranked to 11 but a lot of people can't crank there amps. Most people play bedroom level maybe a bit louder so you ned a amp which sounds great at any level. The Dark Terror wins but both fantastic amps. I'm also in love with the micro terror, that amp blows my mind every time I hear it.
I own and love the Dark Terror. The 15 watts is definitely enough for some gigs, but not for cleans. I use more of a medium gain these days, and it sounds fantastic with plenty of chord definition. It won't keep up with the loudest of drummers, it won't do well with bigger stages and crowds. For band practice in a smaller room, house shows, and gigs at the bar or anyplace with a good PA, this guy will be fine. It's a bit limited as far as the one channel, one EQ knob goes, but it sounds surprisingly good. Depending on the rest of my setup, this amp can pull off Neil Young or At the Gates.
I totally understand what you mean about more "boxy" sound! I own both a TubeScreamer and a CryBaby Slash Wah with built in distortion. The TubeScreamer sounds open and it has that Marshall kind of bite to it while the Wah distortion sounds muddy and like it's in a box. I really hate the boxed sound!
Yeah man, thanks for watching, I get that these amplifiers should be cranked, but the 7 Watt setting slows you to achieve the same tones at lower volumes
I think rather than buying the dual dark, buying a tiny terror and a dark terror and gaffa-taping them together would be pretty awesome. Then you can just use an aby- box and you'd have instant win. Another great demo Bea, please continue these when your friends get home cuz i really enjoy them ;) cheers ;)
Imagine how sick the dark terror would look with orange wooden wrap instead of the blue alligator print
I like the dual dark, sounds more open and clear, bites and growls but without too much compression. Maybe it sounds different live, but on the vid it sounds very good.
Just putting this out there, but with the Dual Dark being three times the price of the Dark Terror why wouldn't you just get two Dark Terrors and an A/B box if you wanted two channels? Or just get a second amp that does the clean stuff better? Seems mentally overpriced to me.
You'll also need 2 cabs
not if you wire it correctly; a 4x12 with two speakers for one amp and two speakers for the other amp would work fine
Agree with you bea, the dark terror sounds lot better. When i saw rob's review i thought the dual dark sounds fizzy now i know for sure. Great shootout.
Great to have an honest review from someone that's not trying to sell stuff !
While you're talking about power...it's probably worth bearing in mind that with very efficient speakers like the V30 (100dB), 15W may be loud enough. With less efficient speakers like Greenbacks or G12Ts, you'd want at least twice as much power just to get the same headroom. Trying to get a 15W amp to play clean when you're not running through the PA is a challenge even with V30s, though.
If you want a Dual Dark for half the price, you could use a Jim Root Terror + Dark Terror and some sort of ABY stompbox. Sure, you're carrying another amplifier, but the weight of both amplifiers is still lighter than the dual dark. Both heads would weight 25 lbs, while the Dual Dark weights like 46 lbs or something. Only downside is basically no clean headroom. So maybe a TH30 would suffice? What do you guys think?
BTW, I think both amps sound great but for slightly different things. If you want like 80s metal/heavy rock, the Dark Terror is better as it's more open. I have the dark terror, and I can get some great Megadeth, Slayer, and Guns N' Roses tones. But the Dual Dark sounds a lot more modern, with that tight bass response. But I think that the tight bass is what makes it sound "boxy". So for even more modern sounds, get the Dual Dark for it's extra dose of headroom and tight bass response. Get the Dark Terror for a mixture of classic and modern tones due to its more open tone. This also has to do with the fact that the Dual Dark is Class A/B and the Dark Terror is Class A. Class A/B has more tighter response and more headroom, while Class A has less headroom, a much more smoother compression and more sensitive to the touch.
Have you heard/played the Jim Root? How would you compare that to the Dark Terror?
I wonder how many people bought the DT on the strength of this video, Bea you made it sound immense..way better than dual dark.
Dude THANK YOU for saying what you said about the wattage. Any sound guy will tell you to turn down if you're using something higher than 50 watts and 15 really is enough to get threw a gig, and you'll be able to push it hard and get the tones you want
Bravo my English digital friend
IMHO if you need sound you go for the DD. If you want to save some money and need a compact solution you go for the DT.
Otherwise the difference in sound quality is way too big . Compared face to face and instantly wanted to sell my DT lol!
Firstly, I must say that I agree wholeheartedly on the wattage issue. Secondly, Orange's US pricing for the Dual Dark is ridiculous: the 100W EVH head is $700 less, and the JVM410HJS is only $100 more. That means you can get the EVH with a Rivera RockCrusher attenuator *and* pocket $200.
To me, the dual dark had the same great "British" sound as the dark terror but u think the dual dark had a bit more definition
Thanks for a great video
Just bought a dark terror and matching orange ppc212 open back speaker cab from Andertons.
Going to use the boss gt100 for effects (4 cable method) and use the amps distortion as gt100 amp sims are ..... Well amp sims!!
This is my first head and cab valve amp set up (I have been playing / fighting with a Marshall valvestate 8080w for 20years!)
It arrives tomorrow - can't wait - may very well post a demo myself
My issue is the dual dark is way more than 2 dark terrors a dual in Canada is 2700.00 I know they have a few more features and it's 100 watter but come on unfortunately I find them over priced there are other amps I would consider at that price range
I'm digging the frequent uploads man, hope you keep it up when the guys return from holiday!
Little one sounded best!
Gainwise, very cool. But yeah, compared to your JVM, the Dual Dark is not quite there to my ears. I don't think it's a bad amp, but not quite to my liking, at least from this video.
I hear you saying, 100 watts is too much, even 50 is too much. I understand your point, but what about the JVM410 head. I ask this because I was thinking of buying a 410 or a 205, but this video got me thinking about watts... (thanks for these video's, these are really interesting and just relaxing to watch).
The jvm has two master volumes, and separate volumes so you can attenuate the jvm and not kill everybody with volume and have a great tube soaked tone
Great review. Love the tone on the dark terror. Would love to have a lighter head. How are the cleans? I assume no reverb on this either?
Well Bea, lad, my ears are too tuned to Marshall's to hear this quite right. Still I may have to buy one since the sounds are crazy good.
I play using a lot of saturation and gain & volume, I love Orange amps and I use nothing other than Orange's cabinets, different amps now and then, yes, different cabs, nope - they're the best in my opinion, especially the PPC4x12HP. But, I've struggled to want or indeed use a Dual Dark. It's voiced a bit too much towards that "modern high gain" for my use, & while I like that sound I don't like it enough to want to play it myself, it just doesn't give me that kind of gain/saturation I get out of my old Sunn Model-T with a RAT pedal or a matchless Hot Box III going into the front. I much prefer the analogue CR120C 2x12 combo (analogue amp, and one of my all time favourites) and the new Rockerverb MKIII over the Dual Dark, and it [MKIII] has the attenuator feature as the Dual Dark does so it's capable of being played at socialising/TV volumes at home.
Jackal Fox Honestly the Jim Root terror is better than the dual dark especially for the price
I think that in general, bigger Orange amps sound more "boxy" and less accurate, maybe because, as you said, they need to be cranked... But today who needs more than 50W valves, even on biggest stages ? In my opinion it would only be used for a true wall of cabinets #backinthe90's, why not, but few peolple do/need/want this. ^^
I'm sorry but 15w is not nearly enough for live, unless you want play with so much gain that all of your chords sound mushy, also you can forget about clean headroom (even with the volume rolled off). The problem with all these little amps is, they provide really really good tones at reasonable volumes, but tend to sound shit when you trully crank them (which you will when playing with a loud drummer). Cool video though, it's nice to see more content from you! :D
Exactly well said! Having said that though 50 watt's is loud enough, gives you enough clean headroom and your able to crank it to at least half way! Which is always gonna sound better than 100 watt with volume at 9 o'clock or lower!!!
Peter Cross
I agree about 50w!
Well rob has gigged with is tiny terror for years. Stands up to me.
I use the Marshall for its foot switchable functionality. It seems you're assuming I'm being fake or chatting shit. I'm not, it's my opinion and I have answered you're queries on the JVM. I don't care how loud it is. My main concern is functionality and that's why I use it.
*****
If your doing Hi gain 15 watts is enough within reason, but if you want a decent clean or just on break up crunch you'll never get it loud enough before tone is compromised! I am talking mainly about your stage sound! Just my opinion cheers
You and Rob both have the same jaw wiggle thing going on while playing. I find that very amusing. Great shootout.
so glad i found this video! been debating between getting one of these two amps for a while, haven't had a chance to play on a dual dark myself in a shop, but this video helps heaps, thanks :)
and the big 1 is the best orange ive heard. i like fizzy bark. but just give me a marshall any day. or a big bass breaker
Bea could you do some vids on mixing and recording thing into a daw and all that shenanigans would be awesome. Also don't no wether you do this but programming drums, I'm not a drummer but i really want to program drum when it come to recording but i suck at it big time
mate... if i had a gold star to give, you'd get it!
cheers for being HONEST! you can tell when people are trying to actually sell you something or trying to tell you what they THINK you want to hear, where as you did this solely because you wanted to and told people what you thought. legend.
personally, i quite liked channel A on the dual dark, however, none of them are for me. i do love my Micro Terror though, try one out if you havent and you'll be pleasantly surprised!
i recently bought a Hiwatt, get in touch with them and see if they'll lend you something to demo, they kick ass and i think they'd really benefit from someone who plays like you showing people what they can do!
So I went back and listened to the Mono Dark again just to see, because ... yea ... I've been drinking per usual but to my credit I agree with my original opinion. So I got that going for me .... which is nice!
13:51 - so who else has done that then? First time I was experimenting with my 60W Blackstar I had a noise gate on. Switched in the amp, not realising the volume and gain were up full. Accidentally clipped a guitar string as I was settling my strap, while standing about a foot from the amp. Damn thing went off like a bomb and I nearly had a heart attack! lol:
I'm actually the other way to you I think the Dual Dark sounds miles better to be honest, but as you say it's personal preference. Though I do agree with you on the value for money. It is what you want it for but while I prefer the Dual Dark it does seem far too much more expensive for the money you could have the Dark Terror and some other cleaner amp and an A/B and still spend less.
Exactly what I thought. It's just something that I thought would be a good topic for a video. As they're both great amps that do similar things. I just can't get my head around that price difference
It may please you to know that my speakers were jumping all over the place and I could feel my innards being pummled about. Sounded good!
Maybe do a video with rob's rockerverb? Pretty sure those are less fizzy. great playing as always man.
Rabea, thanks for the video. It was very helpful. I just bought the Orange Micro Terror so knowing more about the Orange line is perfect for me. Nice to hear your opinions and to get a little more of you riffing out!!! \m/
I love the gritty dark terror sound.
I have the Jim root terror and at it opens up at half volume. Doesn't do low volume well at all....
love the vid and honest opinion on that! Bea, could you do a shootout between Dark Terror and Tiny Terror?
+bushibayushi Please please!
Love your playing bea
Im still waiting on an orange other than the or100 that personally sounds good to my ears. Great videos though. Love em
Great vid Bea!
What amp would you go for at a similar price and power to the Dark Terror? What cab would you pair it with?
How about the dark terror vs your JVM? I take it you prefer the marshall tone. But in another vid you did use an OR100 instead of the jvm for recording, so I suppose you do like Orange tones who certain applications.
Hey Bea, you should do a review on the Orange CR120 solid state head. I'd really like to hear you play and get your thoughts on it.
I've played one, it's the worst Orange I've ever heard and it doesn't take drive pedals well at all. Way too expensive for what it is as well, you may as well get a Dark Terror and a cab for a little more... Although funnily enough, a Vox AC30 Greenback and a Blackstar HT-Metal pedal makes for a KILLER tone. (Both amps were there to use)
Orange amps are love, Orange amps are life
I do appreciate you pointing out there being a different from a British and American guitar tones. Being american I'm more accustomed to hearing what the dark terror sounded like with the shape on the right (about 1 or 2 o clock would be about as far as I would go with the shape and gain) where as to the left on the shape knob that sounded a bit off to me but I appreciate the different sound. Came to learn about an amp and walked away with a lesson in tone. Thanks!
I know this is way off topic but, do you have a a video about how to setup and make presets with that MIDI controller thing on your pedalboard, and if not will you?
I find all Orange amps too fizzy, but I'm old ;)
I guess it's those hairs I want to keep in check ;)
Could you describe the difference in the dark series compared to other amps in general. I m old but in another comparison of a OR80 against a marshal lead head. They both sounded very good and there was a slight difference but not enough to make it hands down either way. But, I thought you could explain what you hear difference.
I do like your honest review though. 2 thumbs up
Nice video but for what would you need a footswitch on a one channel amp?
A superb honest review, awesome entertainment.
If you had to pick one would you go for your washburn or chap?
Hey Bea, awesome vid, i love your playing style! Anyway, i was looking around and after a whole summer or browsing the web in search of the perfect tube amp for me i came to the conclusion that a 410h is what i really want! It will be first ever high end tube amp, i currently have an all tube fame head which is terrible so im saving my money now and hope to get a 410h around christmas time. The question i wana ask is: Is it worth paying €700 which is roughly 560 pounds for a second hand head in very clean condtion with the pedal and a flight case? I dont know the going rate for them so i just wanted a second opinion, theres not many for sale here in ireland but the ones that are for sale are all asking around 500-600 pounds for them. Thanks :)
It is realy easy to down-pick fast: just take metronome and down-pick 3min every day. The point of this excersize is to down pick for 3 min. If you cant in given speed, lower speed. Few weaks and 200bpm is easy :) Downpicking that fast and singing is hard :D
Please do a tutorial on white dove!
for metal riffing, always go 100 or 150 watts.
For metal riffing, it's about the low end of the riffs staying tight and huge sounding. That is best 100 watts. EL84s do not sound huge.
With a hilariously large amount of watts like that, you'll barely even be able to push it at a gig to get "tight and huge" tones!
@@wolfman6489 1.21 Gigawatts!!
Great vid by the way! Nice job!
Nice work.........ROCK ON
Hey Rabea, what is your take on the Orange OR15 and the Diamond Assassin Vanguard? I'd eventually like to run these in one rig, with a third head I can't decide on into 3 separate cabs. Or if it's a small stage, just the Diamond and Orange or some combination of the 3.
beazle can't do metallica? say it ain't so lol! very cool video! i always wondered about the dual etc. and how the tiny compared to their bigger amps. (or why rob has so many lol) what's/ who's in your more progy band and what's it called? i'd be in heaven with all that gear but only can play 1 at a time! ;( ya really should do more vids like this. btw, how's the baritone comin? any cool new head stock shapes or designs an so on? i didn't know the old ml1 didn't have recessed back plate covers! you'd think they'd be recessed from the get go but guess not. do the ml2's have the same non recessed back plates or not? just curious. thanks bea!
Hey man, yeah I used to be a much more competent thrash metal player when I learned all the Metallica. But my picking technique won't allow for such intense down picking hahah.
The side project is very early doors. No names yet.
Bea, "There is a point where you are downpicking so fast that you need to switch to alternate picking, unless you're James Hetfield"
-Dimebag Darrell
haha ;)
Teodor Molander i was joking when i said that but i never had any problems with that stuff nor needed changing my picking technique. depends how good you are and the sound you want to get. dime used lots of up picking for riffs like cfh to get more bite/ scratch. lots of bands use down picking and you can hear the difference. for me, muscle memory never went away and could do all m lead sweeps, alt, skipping and all that w/out much difficulty. idk, maybe i played everything faster lke scales etc. (once i knew em by heart). can't play anything now so oh well.
***** what picking technique do you employ and how has it changed over the years? you have a very cool funk groove but i mean do you use small picks, do you choke down on the pick tip or w/ever? do you use right hand bracing on the bridge or pup etc. etc.?
love your 'stream of consciousness' vids Bea-top bombing and keep 'em up! Quick question, something I've always wondered since the gang's relocation to Brighton. How the %$@ do you guys get away with running this channel in a flat?! I live in a semi and its like walking on eggshells anytime i turn on me rig. Even my (shiny new) V30 countess on 2 watts mode is as loud as pigs! Lovingly yours, jealous from Belfast ;)
What pickups are in the ML-1?
I want to get a dark terror but I'm afraid It will be too quiet on the cleans would I be better getting a tiny terror and boosting it?
Both are great amps. I rather prefer the dark terror because it comes with an fx loop which the tity terror does not. This lets you use modulation pedals after the preamp distortion. I think the dark terror is more veratile than the tiny terror. With the dark terror you can reach tiny terror tones but not the other way around and the fx loop is a HUGE plus.
yeh thats what ive been thinking i think i will go with a dark terror
can the A channel do cleans?
Is a 30 watt head into a 4x12 loud enough for live performances?
Depends on the amp and application, but I would say typically yes.
10 minutes and it'll be full HD
Great comparison! Having also tried both, the terror won my vote too. I'm surprised Ch A on the DD didn't do anything for you...I find it very comparable to what you'd hear from a JVM
can the A channel do cleans?
like, crystal clear?
it seems kind of dumb to have two high gain channels on one amp
Informative video, cheers!
Dark Terror for me! :)
Enjoyed the vid. Thnx mate
Enjoyed that thanks
***** Which differences do you find between the dual dark and the rockeverb MKII?
not as good as the JVM but a decent little amp
Rabea, have you tried using your signature guitar? The pickups in this guitar are very different than yours, I'm no expert, but I think it might sound less fizzy. I think it would have made a difference. I love how meaty the Duncan SH-5 is so I want to know how it sounds!
Great comparison though! Like that small dark better!
I have to say that i still am in love with the Dark Terror. Orange, is really one of the best company out there. By all means, love your videos, bro! Keep it up! ^^
I love you thank you!
Somebody will eventually ask:
YES(as he said), the terror is a solid gigging amp! YES, you will drown your band with a 4x12 cab. I've played bar and theater gigs with the original tiny terror, and never needed the levels past high noon! cheers
plz make shirts with your squiggly head portrait thing. i want 2
great amp dark terror........was my everyday amp......then got a blackstar id 260 .......what a fantastic amp this is ......will do anyting well ......and its not value.......you valve people really need to check it out......
How much more playing time has the dark terror had?
Has the dual dark had much playing time to flourish?
Steve
I love you bea!!:)
Rabea..... 360p, really????
This is what happens as soon as it uploads, give it 10 minutes and it'll be 1080p
***** Alright....sorry about that!!! :) Rock on !!!
What lava lamp is that?
All you saying you need 100 or more obviously don't know anything about watts!!! you can play stadium with 7 watts its all about the speaker set up through out the place. run i mean 100 watts won't even do a stadium you have to mike.
The dual dark is just a horribly underwhelming amp IMO. It does not cut at all in a mix and just gets destroyed by a rockerverb. I live in Austin and two bands use these…one is a single guitar band and his tone was quite underwhelming and he agreed…just upgraded to a rockerverb and he sounds way better now. The other band is a two guitar with a rockerverb MKI and a dual dark on the other side…I’ve seen them several times and the dual dark might as well not even be there…gets completely buried by the rockerverb and bass player. The dual dark has his mids run high too, and it doesn’t even matter. Save yourself A LOT of money, and get something else.
awesome
Yaaaay
for how it sounds and the options it gives you, the dual dark is INSANELY overpriced. I can get a TH30 and a 5150iii 50W for the same money and will have classic Orange rock tones as well as nice, tight metalcore from the EVH...plus the dual dark doesn't even "open up" properly. sorry but that amp is a major fail in my opinion
I was just about to diss your master of puppets interpretation then you spoke ha
just buy a few different mid priced heads and a foot switch to change between sound settings, or just have one sound, cranked, balls to the wall man!!!
I get that this is a comparison video, but people should be aware that it does a terrible job at showcasing the Dual Dark. Too bad the reviewer didn’t also upload a video that fairly reviews the DD independently. Here the reviewer assumes the amps should sound the same when compared at the same settings and proceeds to compare them with very little effort to adjust the amp settings. By the time he gets to the DD you get a few seconds of playing interrupted by complaints, even though only one or two sounds are played on each channel of the DD with very little attempt to go through dialing in different sounds to fully show what it is capable of. The reality is that you really can’t expect a 100W amp to sound exactly the same as a 15W amp (set to 7W) when set to the same settings. It’s a shame because with the amount of views this video had, it probably really hurt sales on the DD.
Um, you’re using a panama cab instead of a orange cab. Response is going to be completely different. Panama makes some great stuff for the money.
Master of puppets alternate picking fail! ;-)
100 watts or GTFO... if you play hard rock or metal --->> 100 watts is required for best sound with drummer.
LOL