I interviewed Scott Kurtz of tabletitans.com/ as a part of an episode I want to make on Acquisitions incorporated at some point. We fell down a bunch of rabbit holes and at the end it was clear, scott had given me an hour of pure gold and to keep it to myself would be ridiculous. I know the audio isn't the best but hopefully you all like it! Finally: I know I said yeah or yes nearly 100 times. now you know that, enjoy hearing it over and over until it stops sounding like a word!
Zee Bashew was acquisitions incorporated before JP mcdaniels “Rollplay”? The rollplay series was what got me reinterested in dnd so I’m curious which was first.
The hilarity of the Jim and Binwin combo was the reason I watched AcqInc. It just wasn't the same without, and has continued crumbling from that point. Thanks for sharing the interview.
I think D&D's growing popularity is in part to boredom with video game RPGs and MMOs. Being able to truly have your own avatar and not forced into cookie cutter, min/max specs is really cool. Also the real life social aspects that "social media" and even MMOs do not give you is a real boon to it too. I know those are my reasons for starting playing recently. Of course, what ever your reason for playing, I hope you have fun.
I played D&D in the 90s. I got back into when I heard that Wil Wheaton was part of Acquisition Incorporated. Then Critical Role happened and I have been back full tilt ever since. How you find D&D isn't important. What is important is that you like the game. Watching D&D on Twitch and TH-cam is a great way to learn it. A million ways to play.
I don't know how to say this without it sounding like an insult, I don't mean it to. Because I don't think he is necessarily a "control freak", but I don't know what else to call it. But I think what he really wants is a cinematic experience that gets to the "juice" without the boring bits that surround it. Honestly the best way to get to those bits is to watch a movie, or write your own story, like in a comic, or create your own character (which he admits is his favorite part of the game). Unfortunately D&D is a collaborative game and part of the gold is waiting through the moments that aren't about you, or aren't as interesting to you, so that when you get to the juice, it's that much sweeter. Because you got there organically and with a group of friends you really value. Just my two cents.
I think that does not really come across as an insult, maybe slapping the categorization at the beginning was xD But that is actually a pretty valid point you make there, truth is sometimes bitter but needed. A point, that is probably getting lost nowadays, as people get too used to playing fast paced games, watch action movie that are crammed full and have to be railroaded through many things.
@@celesdiamon8421 I think what you are referring to is more about attention span, while I think maybe for Kurtz its like he wants to control the story, but I don't know, maybe the two go hand in hand.
@@RonPower My main point was to assure you, that you were constructive and not insulting with the point you made. As for attention span or controlling the story.... eh, semantics xD
I feel bad for Kurtz. It must really suck to be successful in a medium that you either dislike an inordinate amount or just have little to no respect for. For me D&D is a gaming experience like no other that I don't think I could ever be jaded about, but I know everyone has different experiences.
he's not jaded because he "dislikes or has no respect" for dnd, he's jaded because to him acq inc was something the 3 of them - as friends for over a decade - started together. mike and jerry didn't want to give him an equal share of ownership/seat at the table. Makes sense, Jerry always gives me strong libertarian vibes so I can see him kicking a friend under the table to not give up those sweet, sweet property rights
No. Stranger Things inspired some 80s retro culture, including an increase in interest in D&D. Some of the people who wrote comments under this video even said it had this effect on them or people they know said this.
Not true. I know a couple younger folks who gained an interest in DND because of the show. I do agree that the overall trend of DND wasn’t hugely impacted long term, but it definitely brought some people in.
Zee, this is an interview that Acq Inc fans and PVP fans AND PA fans have wanted for years. And Scott, thank you for giving your side of this story. it's rare that we get to see the personal element of these decisions.
If I tell people that I play D&D, they ask if I've seen Stranger Things. It doesn't make lay people want to play the game, but it did put it in their subconscious pretty well.
"Someone can get hit in the face with a sword three times..." HP is an abstraction. You're not getting stabbed in the kidney every time you get hit in DnD. It's nicks, bruises, and glancing blows until that last one that takes you to 0.
I didn't know you would get simply nicked and bruised from a greatsword or a longbow. If someone was stabbed, they would realistically either die or bleed out or at least double over in pain.
The part about the quiet, meaningful moments really got to me. I absolutely agree. Those are always the best parts of DnD. Its why I keep coming back to it time and time again.
Super tragic how the subtext to this episode is how Scott doesn't see when he has everything he wants until it's too late. The theater, the friendships, the creative control and contribution... he had it all and yet somehow tells this story as if it were denied to him. But he was the one who walked away. And he doesn't seem to see it that way. Hooooof.
I don't think many people watched stranger things and were inspired to play D&D. It is just the most recent and popular example of D&D in pop culture. On the other hand, Critical Roll has inspired many of its viewers to start their own games.
anyone who's played a public game or two at a shop can easily notice an influx of new players from CR's audience over the last few yrs. far mor important to the growth of the game then being reference in a tv show.
I really can appreciate Scott's opinion on details, tying up knots and open ends of stories. Nothing makes the end of a story better than seeing what the results and consequences of the characters choices and actions are. If you play a character and make those choices to either befriend or antagonize an NPC, seeing how they give nuances to your game and little tidbits to context is just satisfying. If this stuff is missing, ending a campaign of D&D or finish reading a book just feels hollow and you can't enjoy it to the fullest extent. Comic Strips are stories! They are basically a short story put into a more tangible form by adding illustration to the words and replacing the "filling" of a book with pencil lines. I can write that my character punches an orc, but actually drawing it in a way that the punch seems delivered properly, that is hard to do. I am so happy this was given to us, thank a LOT!
An example of what Scott was talking about with ownership of characters: the voice actress for Sayla Mass, Inoue Yō, form the original Gundam cartoon was unavailable to reprise her role for the sequel, Zeta Gundam, so the writers removed her character from the show.* The idea is both a respect for the voice actress' performance, but also respect for true fans, who would recognize a voice other than Inoue's as belonging to a different character.** *I think there might be a brief cameo **Inoue passed away in 2003, and since then they've had to rely upon other voice actresses.
This is interesting but man Scott Kurtz sounds so damn jaded. I understand he was one of the original members of Acq. Inc but he's really not part of it anymore. I don't think he's at all kept up with live play shows nowadays, which is fine but he just feels so removed from what it is now.
If you watched the evolution of PvP and his old posts as he came up into his popularity, he's been pretty jaded since the beginning :\ I don't think it makes him a bad person though, he tries to be kind, but it's part of who he is.
I think D&D 5e blew up because of it's (in my opinion) the most starter friendly version yet. I think everyone knows of D&D in some way and as "nerd" culture has become more mainstream (especially complex board games) D&D is a natural progression for both people new to the hobby gaming market and veterans of other games like tcg, board games and other table top games like games workshop etc. as veterans dial down their gaming to play with players that are new to the experience, D&D just seems the best game to jump into. Yes stranger things, critical role, AI create interest, but I think the biggest factor is, "hey have you heard of a game called D&D?" "Yeah sure, it's easy"
TH-cam eventually lead me to DND, by virtue of videos saying "Skyrim is not a role playing game, you want an RPG, play DND." Shrek: table top games are lame! Various others: agreed! Then I started watching channels like yours and Puffin Forest. Of course I didn't realize it was blowing up the algorithm, until Dingo Doodles said "so I did a video, and now I'm famous?"
I knew about DnD ten years ago and I was nerdy but I didn't really have that much of an interest in playing. When the Penny Arcade podcast with Scott Kurtz playing the game came out, I got myself into a game immediately. For me it is thanks to Scott, Perkins, Mike, and Jerry that I play DnD.
@@PSPHunter96 No, definitely the third Golden Age. Popular in the 80's and early 90's. Game died. Huge resurgence in 3.x. Lul in 4E. Slowly becomes a behemoth with 5E.
11:15 Wow, that sort of really explains why he doesn't engage with Critical Role; he shuts down during some of the most intense moments because he assumes he knows what is going to happen (which couldn't be further from the truth). There have been _many_ times, that Critical Role has shown that combat really isn't a given, and "winning" a fight can actually lead to really terrible consequences. Hell, if 'being taken out of the game because you're rolling dice' is the issue how do you account for the hilarity that ensues on even the most mundane actions because of failed ability checks which is entirely outside of combat? It's his preconceptions as to what actions but most especially combat will entail (eg. that every fight is winnable, or that the outcome is straight forward) that's the issue, not the dice itself. Hopefully he finds (or makes) a system better suited for breaking his preconceptions, cause _that_ is what will suck the fun out of his games real fast unless he specifically seeks out GMs that don't make fair/straight forward fights on purpose.
I think it's also important to remember as a D&D 5e Dungeon Master, is that, by definition, dice are used to determine an uncertain outcome. If there are actions a character takes, of which the outcome is uncertain (such as swinging and hitting a monster in the midst of battle, leaping over a treacherous ravine, or resisting the effects of a poisoned drink), you should roll a dice. But like the example he described about the sleeping guard, a DM should reasonably say (assuming they are invested in the reality of the world) that the character sinks his dagger in his chest and he dies. That is not an uncertain outcome, it is realistically impossible to mess this up unless the creatures heart is deep behind muscles, which in the case of the guard, is not true.
@@neiman7617 honestly, I would say make an attack roll*, but if it hits they're dead regardless of hp (unless we're talking a beast of a creature like you described). Mostly because Nat 1s are a thing and tripping over yourself trying to silently kill someone is a hilarious outcome that _could_ happen (Mr.Magoo style). Edit: *with a modified AC to accommodate how easy it "should" be to hit them
He comes back and explains this at about the 45 minute mark: most combats in D&D are like the fight scenes in the second matrix or the second Star Wars prequel: these aren't characters, you have no relation to them, they're just guys and you're fighting them because that's what you do in D&D. And that sense of the combat being narratively vapid is what takes him out of the game bc no matter how the fight ends, unless his character dies the encounter just doesn't matter. I've often been a player and said "guys, we aren't here to kill orcs, we're looking for a magic mirror. If they don't have it lets just give them 10 gp and a sandwich and fuck off and keep moving." But we're here to play D&D, so of course we have to waste 45 minutes butchering these total strangers who don't matter to the plot at all.
@@nicholascarter9158 Yeah, as a GM I'm struggling trying to get my players to engage with things that matter. There is a lot of meta knowledge that assumes outcomes and they can be hard to avoid since we've all been taught what to expect. You build to your players expectations and they play to your building. It's hard to break the cycle.
@Ian Ridgwell As a player, I was in that same boat of not being with other players that all they do is shoot first then ask questions later. I used to do that early on, and, going on two years, I've been trying to find alternative ways based on what I've built to play. And, now, I finally found 2 groups that actually give me that. Sure, there's still some "kill first, THEN figure it out moments," but there's still times where the weapons are sheathed and we legitimately try to figure things out/learn about the world. I think it's just about finding the right folks that are interested in jiving with that idea and what not. And, I super lucked out.
Acquisitions Incorporated got me into D&D via the 4ed podcasts so I would credit them for at least a part of the D&D resurgence. Thanks for the interview!
D&D was going through a resurgence long before Acq Inc. The next generation had grown up and become interested in roleplaying. And suddenly there were two generations coming to every gameCon. It was this resurgence that made it possible for Acq Inc and the Waffle crew to become this new, amazing DnD force in media. I love it!
The Grey Havens are just the place the elves get on the boats. It’s the westernmost point on the continent. The place they sail to is the island that the Valar made for them. There’s kind of overtones of the afterlife, but it’s not. It’s just the place where the elves can bask in the light of the Two Trees and remember the days when the Valar walked among them. Also, Sam DID carry the ring, not just by carrying Frodo. When Shelob stung Frodo and Sam thought he was dead, Sam took the ring because he was going to try to carry on with the mission. He willingly gave it back to Frodo, but Sam did bear the ring so he had the option to sail into the West and end his days among the elves.
@@iconocast Yes and no. Dead elves end up in the Halls of Mandos, which are situated in Valinor. But Valinor has a huge amount of elves who were born there and never left. Some who were born in Middle-Earth and who's stayed there since close to the first time elves entered the world. And all of them, including those who at the end of the 3rd age/start of the 4th, are very much still alive. However non-elves who go there aren't going to become immortal, or somehow get to stay there after dying.
So this is very interesting, as hearing "creating a character is my favorite part" followed by "I played the same character 10 years" is perplexing. I have not listened to any of his work, and he sounds bored a lot, apathetic even. But when he does get that energy, Like explaining LOTR ringbearers, he's fun to listen to.
When 4e came out and Pennyarcade/Scott/Perkins started their podcast, it is what got me into dnd. I learned how to play from listening to them and started a group, but yeah I think you describe it well. They were the spark. It caught the attention of some and certainly drew in a fanbase, but calling them a spark and Crit Role a powder keg is accurate, Critical Roles current kickstarter is evidence of that.
I feel like Scott doesn't like DnD but instead enjoys interactive story telling. He seems to blame that on the game as opposed to acknowledging the fact that he would enjoy an interactive storytelling session more.
Yeah I got that feeling when he was talking about how they "stop playing d&d" whenever there's combat. Combat shouldn't be as cut and dry as "you win, they lose", it should have lots of opportunities for roleplay, fun circumstances, and character building. A wizard's fireball can collapse part of the tunnel you're going down, or a goblin snatches an important trinket from a player. Maybe your character almost dies to a troll, and they're very cautious when dealing with them from now on. Definitely more than "roll dice until they die".
@@shrubninja6444 agreed, yet he does mention that he gets bored easy. In some instances there is nothing there except rolling out the combat system. A open field without any interactive components,a cave with nothing to note in the empty chamber just as examples.
@@TruthOracle Oh definitely. It's not always going to be some super important narrative fight, but acting like it's always just "Roll dice, kill monster." is a really bad way to look at it.
I don't think this is true though. Critical Role is very much the 'story telling' style of dnd. He calls it performative and says that's not dnd but that's in essense what storytelling in dnd is. Matt paints these vivid pictures of places and people and let's the others play in that sandbox. If Scott enjoys interactive storytelling, he only enjoys it when it's all about himself.
Oh my God! The Doc Holiday scene! It's the ONE THING I remember from that movie. Literally just THAT exchange of dialogue. And I doubt I'll ever forget it. I don't know who you are, Scott Kurtz, but you're a good dude.
Still listening as I post, and so far combat talk is still going. I might be in the minority but I like combat in D&D. Lucked out with a great DM. Combat was real, you knew your character was very likely to die. He encouraged roleplay and character devolpment, but he didn't pull punches. So back up characters were handy or like the time I lost a character I wound up playing a NPC. Like they said it all depends on your DM.
I have one word for Scott: "Mediation" This a great concept from White Wolf games where if the Storyteller and the Players are pretty sure where the events of an interaction are going to go, they can mediate the results. I use it in my D&D all the time. It is a great time saver. You can reduce an encounter to negotiation and few dice rolls.
It’s a shame because as Binwin, playing off of Jim darkmagic.. that was some of the best and most hilarious dnd I’ve ever watched. If it hadn’t been for that, I’d have never gotten in to dnd and critical role. Scott just seems like he can’t get past “himself”. If he would not have left acq inc, they may have been able to rival critical role some day. Probably not though. Scott doesn’t “get” critical role though. He says “la voice actors” like it’s a bad thing. Like because they are voice actors in Hollywood, they aren’t “real” dnd players. I can say with 100% certainty that he never gave critical role a chance. They are dnd players that are also voice actors, not the other way around. They have quite possibly the greatest dungeon master ever, and each player is dedicated to their character, and progressing the storyline in an honest and compelling way.. because they aren’t “putting on a show”, they are playing a game For fun and we get to watch. Meh. Scott got a double portion of artistic talent and humor, and a half measure of personality and likability.
CorbieKitaal it was hard to listen to how jaded he was about critical role, I started on other shows but only fell in love with it when CR Pushed it to its performative limits
I think you misinterpreted him, it's not that they *are* voice actors, it's that it sort of makes people think that all D&D is going to be *that* well done. I think? I could also be wrong.
There's different types of D&D players. And Critical Role just doesn't appeal to his tastes. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just his personal taste. And he even admitted that Critical Role is largely responsible for the D&D resurgence. But, there's a lot of new players that get into D&D wanting the "Mercer experience" and that's just too high of a bar for the average DM to compete with.
@@Rathkryn Acc inc. is what got me into dnd at the beginning of 4e. I still read penny arcade back at that time so I was interested in what the hubbub was about with this dnd podcast and gave it a listen, then started my own campaign by learning how to play through them. I feel like anyone who blames critical role for putting unrealistic expectations on the game needs to get their head out of their ass. My group loves critical role and their style suits us, we play very similarly. Our DM does voices and paints beautiful word pictures, and we all roleplay heavily much like crit role. Are we professional voice actors? No, infact i hate my voice and I don't really do one, but it doesn't stop us from enjoying the experience. Do you have to play this way? No, but anyone who says crit role hurts dnd by somehow glamourizing this style of play, needs to take a step back and re-evaluate themselves. Scott seems to alienate everyone around him with his jaded and selfish world view. He shits on almost every style of play. The only thing he seems to like about dnd is when its about himself.
Sucks to say, but Scott is just playing the wrong system. D&D is fundamentally a combat system. Everything else was tacked on later. He needs a system like Call of Cthulhu that started as a story telling game.
But Call of Cthulhu is actually great at combat too. I ran a one-shot CoC game the other night with some people whose only experience of TTRPG was a bit of 5E D&D, and they were on the edge of their seats all night. They were used to wading into brawls with multiple enemies and tanking dozens of hits with healers on standby; in my game, one character was nearly killed outright in one hit by a rifle shot and another was badly wounded by being stabbed by an undead servant of Gla'aki. They all survived sane and alive, but it was a gentle introduction by CoC standards. I think too many aspiring DMs bubble-wrap their players. They get scared about killing player characters because they worry about being branded as adversarial DMs, so they end up encouraging this kind of beer and pretzels, "Whose game is it anyway?" comedy improv style of game with maybe one or two fights a session.
Acq Inc is what basically what kept my imagination fresh in D&D while going through that time of my life in my early 20s when people are leaving for college or working. Now that we are more stable, we regularly play. Stranger things brought the resurgence from those who wont search out crit role or don't have too many nerdy friends. With more media being seen by more, it's become quite easy to explain how dnd would work if, say, GoT was a D&D game. I now have people who said they never would begging to play longer. Crit Role did the thing g everyone wanted a d was that they found a great middle ground. With voice actors, people can see the show as if it were TV and they can sort of get past the nerdiness when they are seeing the characters and not the Players. Each thing has had it's own personal role in the resurgence... I got Waaaay too much to say on this whole interview... God I wish I could be there...
7:00 ish Mathew Mercer apologize for creating the Mathew Mercer Effect. Which is the effect of getting rid of DnD players for not roleplaying well enough and expecting the game to be perfect and the DM to never have to touch the rule book & more. (The assumption that all DMs and parties should be Mathew and CR Cast and people getting upset if its not). His apology was basically "ive done this for 12(insert #) years and we did it to practice our voice acting when we were just friends" Disclaimer: This is how I remember it and IK this is a super late reply
Maybe an unpopular opinion: I actually think it's a really terrible idea to recommend to a new player to watch Critical Role as a first impressions to D&D. It's something I see people do time and time again, they tell them "Critical Role is truly D&D at its finest, you must watch it", but then these prospective players go watch it and then they go into their first actual game with some friends expecting the stars... and then they get a telescope instead. Critical Role's problem is that it spoils people, it's too good to be true.
that's why you remind them theyre fucking voice actors and youre not and to restrain their expectations, don't blame it on the show lol. my group and I play DnD in the same style as critical role and we have a blast, no it's not the same caliber but so what.
It's a sensible opinion, but I do think Critical Role is DnD at it's finest. You have people engaged in both Role Play and combat and rolling with the punches. Molly dying is a good example of that. Molly's death shaped the M9 and still does. That being said, I think reminding new players that the majority of folks aren't voice actors , or have complex backstories is sensible. However, I think that Critical Role encourages players to be better. New and old.
You have to be be delusional if you think that your first session will be just like something like critical role with professional voice actors and such.
It's also a very narrative game. Which isn't a problem if you're running a narrative game but it's a *big* problem if you're a filthy gamist like myself. 😂
Acq Inc sparked mine and my friends interest in D&D. When I was young it was just one of those things that passed me by and wish I knew about it sooner.
It is weird. I joined a D&D club recently and we had this conversation. The club president actually said the recent resurgence (and growth) of the D&D club was mainly due to Stranger Things. I mean, they hardly play it, it's barely a plot device, but apparently it had a huge impact on many people, so who knows.
Stranger Things is an American show set in the 80s where a D&D group has their lives turned upside down when their Wizard finds a real life Narnia portal to what appears to be hell, they meet a girl who is, basically, a warlock, and they fight a monster called the Demogorgin who wants to eat the wizard.
The problem with just glossing over combats like "Ok, they're just goblins, you win" is that the game is designed to take into account lots of LITTLE fights. Sure, you can handle 1 or 2 small bands of goblins, but the tenth such band in a day as you're travelling through their territory starts to become a bit "iffy" if you're keeping track of spells used and such. Maybe if you made a system where you could trade off an "automatic win" for a small number of hit points and/or spell slots from each character. Then at least they can't just breeze past 100 Goblins or something just because the party encounters them in groups of 2-10 over the course of the day. DM: OK, you can steamroll these 10 Kobolds at the cost of 5 HP from each meele character and 2 level 1 spell slots or one level 2 spell slot from each caster, or we can play the fight out if you think you can win taking less damage and using less spells.
In response to the Taking Your Character with You thing, I feel like Wrestling is the closest that comes to that kind of ... Meta? thing. Like how Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson owns the character name so he can use it in opposing shows, are even use "The Rock" as his public face.
I began playing D&D in 1983 and I've also had a hard time wrapping my head around this weird popular narrative that the most social game in human history was only played by reclusive loners that never leave their parent's basement. I learned to play while pledging a fraternity in college and this lead to playing a ton of D&D while I was in the Army. Tabletop RPGs are something that everyone should try to play, some should play and that many should not be allowed to play without the supervision of a qualified mental health provider.
I can't speak for the larger culture, but those Acq Inc live games had a tremendous impact on me. I would absolutely give them credit for the new D&D Renaissance. I was also really sad to hear about Scott's regrets with the Waffle Crew. I totally felt he asked Chris to kill Binwin off and just picked the wrong group to do it with. I wish he could have had one last game with the crew he started with, but there must be actual business considerations there. Was terribly sad to see Scott leave that group, and I would love to see those bridges repaired.
Acq Inc started it but listening back to those first episodes they’re pretty rough (some of the early PA misogyny doesn’t sit well with me as I’ve gotten older). I think the Drunks and Dragons podcast got me addicted to real play podcasts. it has so much to do with chemistry between the players. Currently the C-Team stuff is just fantastic.. (better than the current Adventure Zone.. maybe on par with the balance arc at its peak) , but it took a bit to come back around to it. I miss Kurtz’s earnestness when he was really dialed in but you could tell he had lost interest in his last appearances and just wasn’t enjoying it anymore. It hurt the chemistry.
@@SethThornberry I honestly don't remember the misogyny but it was so long ago, our standards have changed a bit. These days I feel like Anna, Kate, and Holly are the best parts of the show. They even get the best lines when they guest.
I agree that Critical Role is the main reason for the resurgence of D&D - it's what got me into it - but I wouldn't write Stranger Things' impact completely. Everyone I've talked to about playing in person (who have expressed interest in playing) want to because they saw it on the show, and this includes most of my group. There's no doubt it's barely in the show, but it's clearly peaked people's interest- or at least that's what I've experienced as someone who doesn't no anyone who's played before irl until they played with me.
It's evidently different for a lot of others, so maybe my experience is weird, but I do think the fact that you two (and other commenters) are more rooted in the 'd&d community' means you don't see how many people's interest is captured because of the show.
I would like more of this content, please. You could do it while drawing or animating live, or not... But this content is golden! I don't follow acq Inc but I've read table titans and I love your shorts, so it's all great stuff!
I like Kurtz's webcomics, and he still holds the crown of "best joke of any pax live DnD show ever" (the one about redshirts)... but god.. this interview is kinda depressing.
As someone who enjoys both I don't feel like Critical Role is a performance. As someone who started with Pathfinder which led me to seek out for other people's campaigns I feel like the fact they are voice actors is just a bonus. Hell who doesn't try to add some flavor to their character? It makes stuff more fun when the environment feels like it is full of life.
True but if you have watched there have been times that people straight up should not be alive but fudged numbers/had something else happen as they can not kill a character. Not saying it is a bad thing but the fan base is brutal, but it is about leveraging their own fan bases on Twitter etc.
@@wobblysauce Matthew has said has never and will never fudge dice. Ironically. Even let's say he did. I know a lot of dms that do and only very few that don't. The point of the game is to have fun.
@@TheLockville Yes, He won't... and does not run it as a TPK game, but there are others and choices made where different options were available. Indeed, as a Dm you are a participant in the adventure/world building etc... some others you are that evil entity, you vs them.
@@wobblysauce Don't see why a game has to risk a TPK all the time to be fun. Survival is not the only challenge in D&D. Also as the DM you *are* the world, and it is your job to have fun, and make sure everyone is having fun. I dislike the concept of abusing the concept of TPK, because it can go overboard very quickly and lose its value if it happens every combat.
Kurtz has always been a very negative person. Look at what happened between him and WW or Kris Straub. Not surprised he feels this way about CR because they eclipsed him.
Yeah, he comes off as SUPER butthurt about CR being popular. "Oh, it's not DnD, it's a product" - and then he talks about things like narrating the fights improving the game experience - which is stuff Matt does constantly.
I've played with a few people that describe their relationship with the game like that - where they like "creating interesting characters" but not much else. It's VERY hard to play with people like that, because they really aren't very interested in playing the game - they just like making characters.
@@dustinb4286 people like that tend to want the game to be all about them. They hoard the limelight when they can but then whine when it's focused on someone else. I feel like his story and Orion Acaba's are similar in that they both seme like seflishly entitled people who alienated everyone around them with their behavior.
Scott Kurtz + Dungeon World. I love the plug for the game. I often feel like it is overlooked for other PbtA games because it sticks to D&D tropes so hard, but for a D&D player who wants a narrative game without being bogged down by drawn out fights, checking rules, and contested dice rolls it’s really a brilliant role playing system for sticking to the fiction and not the mechanics.
acquisitions is what got me and my gf into dnd and then I brought it to a few of my friends. To me that a long with critical role and other streamers is what helped demystify dnd for us and make us interested.
Whenever I do travel I use a mechanic called travelers fatigue that basically makes long rests into short rests unless the players bunk down in one spot for like a week or fortify a place so that they feel safe or stay at an inn. Then those short inconsequential combats string together on the road to become kind of like a dungeon. And dungeons & dragons in my opinion only ever works as a dungeon simulator. So anything that doesn't directly relate to being a dungeon simulator needs to be converted into a dungeon simulator on some level or just doesn't function in D&D
its not for everyone or even all encounters. this all depends on what your group is wanting. alot of people enjoy dnd combat for what it is, its mainly just internet contrarians who complain about it and makes it seem like its somehow bad.
Loved the interview I'm sorry to hear about your falling out with Acq. Inc. Scott. And the world building aspects of stories was something I liked from Bram Stoker's Dracula which made the character fell more real and the world a bit more lived in.
I had an online conversation with a grumpy old man on a 1e /2e site and they were taking credit for 5e success, because dnd started for most of us with Greyhawk. As an old and slightly less senile player I think 5e succeeded because of the play testing and online games that showed in a favorable light the play of dnd. Wil Wheaton had tabletop games and did the dame thing for table top games. Criticism toward acq inc or Critical role is lame, they did promote dnd and people have come in part to 5e because of them.
Scott is right, live D&D for the consumption of viewers started with Acquisitions Incorporated. Even if there were others before, they drew the first a huge audience. I absolutely love Critical Role, but nothing would be cooler than if Scott returned to Acq. Inc. Jeremy Crawford is killing it as a DM, but its too intermittent now. I would love to see Scott, Jerry, Mike, and Chris come together again. As much as I've tried, I just can't seem to get into C-Team
I personally prefer Critical Role to Acq. Inc., but I would never have found Critical Role if it weren't for Wil Wheaton burning to death in an acid pit. After all of this, I am now part of 3 DnD campaigns, (1 where I DM) and a handful of other RPG one shots. This new age of RPG is something to behold, and I don't think it would be the same without Scott, Jerry, Mike, and Chris.
Too intermittent? They have more pax shows than they ever did a few years ago, aside from the single stint where they all got together for a weekly game for a series this is the most Acq-Inc we have had.
Let's go deeper! She reaches the Forever Stone in game, which is now reality again due to the unweaving of the spell, but like the original story, her friends have perished. She knows what she must do. She wishes is was just a story. And then, she becomes a web comic.
I came to D&D because of Stranger Things... My daughter saw the show and we all watched it together, then she wanted to play D&D badly enough to ask for it for christmas. I had no D&D experience, but jumped in with both feet to DM a game for her and her cousins (as you do for your kids) . Her interest dropped off due to too much reading and math that she gets her fill of in school (6th grade) but my wife and I found it interesting and have been playing for a year and a half now. Critical role didn't come to our attention until after we had been playing around with D&D for about a month. I think the path to D&D for us was... Lord of the rings->All fantasy content->Renaissance Festivals->Larping->world of warcraft->other fantasy computer games->Game of Thrones->other fantasy tv shows->Stranger Things->D&D->you tube D&D content
Stranger Things may not be the reason D&D has resurgence it's definitely put it out there to communities outside of the internet, the 'in' crowd. Recently at work I've been talking with colleagues after rumour got out that I played DnD, most of the people I spoke to about it had an idea of DnD because it was "That game they played in stranger things," while it may not have played a huge part in the story of the show was still present and brought attention to those who might not even be reasonably interested in tabletop games. Critical role is something I love dearly and have been watching since late 2015, and while it is incredibly popular I think outside of internet circles it isn't known while 'that show on Netflix' is.
A large part of the D&D resurgence was an evacuation of other forms of entertainment coupled with D&D being everything they left was not personal,interactive,social and not stifling imagination.The good build your own story kit.
This is unexpected, I was prepared for a story telling animation on D&D. I instead got an interesting look into the renascence of D&D. Love this surpise interview, great stuff! Side note, shows and animations characture of D&D that conserned me the most as an recent player in D&D, had to be the rules lawering. Every time you see these things on television break down into a fight. 5E has been a blast and ive yet to see a single fight about rules between a GM and player! As for my arival I more took interest in D&D because of the jocks coming into our thieftem and saying nerdy shits cool. So I wanted to pay respects to the Originatal Video game, the tabletop pen and paper RPG, responsible for video games and story telling there in.
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I interviewed Scott Kurtz of tabletitans.com/ as a part of an episode I want to make on Acquisitions incorporated at some point. We fell down a bunch of rabbit holes and at the end it was clear, scott had given me an hour of pure gold and to keep it to myself would be ridiculous.
I know the audio isn't the best but hopefully you all like it!
Finally: I know I said yeah or yes nearly 100 times. now you know that, enjoy hearing it over and over until it stops sounding like a word!
Zee Bashew was acquisitions incorporated before JP mcdaniels “Rollplay”? The rollplay series was what got me reinterested in dnd so I’m curious which was first.
@@lordcanti4199 Probably, the first acq inc podcast I think was in 2008-9ish? The first live show was 2010
I call Vin Desiel commenting on his involvement in D&D and the creation of 5e.
Thank you so much for sharing this with all of us!
This is great. I hope this becomes more then a one time thing.
The hilarity of the Jim and Binwin combo was the reason I watched AcqInc. It just wasn't the same without, and has continued crumbling from that point. Thanks for sharing the interview.
I think D&D's growing popularity is in part to boredom with video game RPGs and MMOs. Being able to truly have your own avatar and not forced into cookie cutter, min/max specs is really cool. Also the real life social aspects that "social media" and even MMOs do not give you is a real boon to it too. I know those are my reasons for starting playing recently. Of course, what ever your reason for playing, I hope you have fun.
I played D&D in the 90s. I got back into when I heard that Wil Wheaton was part of Acquisition Incorporated. Then Critical Role happened and I have been back full tilt ever since. How you find D&D isn't important. What is important is that you like the game. Watching D&D on Twitch and TH-cam is a great way to learn it. A million ways to play.
whilweatonne isgheyhay
I don't know how to say this without it sounding like an insult, I don't mean it to. Because I don't think he is necessarily a "control freak", but I don't know what else to call it. But I think what he really wants is a cinematic experience that gets to the "juice" without the boring bits that surround it. Honestly the best way to get to those bits is to watch a movie, or write your own story, like in a comic, or create your own character (which he admits is his favorite part of the game). Unfortunately D&D is a collaborative game and part of the gold is waiting through the moments that aren't about you, or aren't as interesting to you, so that when you get to the juice, it's that much sweeter. Because you got there organically and with a group of friends you really value. Just my two cents.
I think that does not really come across as an insult, maybe slapping the categorization at the beginning was xD
But that is actually a pretty valid point you make there, truth is sometimes bitter but needed.
A point, that is probably getting lost nowadays, as people get too used to playing fast paced games, watch action movie that are crammed full and have to be railroaded through many things.
@@celesdiamon8421 I think what you are referring to is more about attention span, while I think maybe for Kurtz its like he wants to control the story, but I don't know, maybe the two go hand in hand.
@@RonPower My main point was to assure you, that you were constructive and not insulting with the point you made.
As for attention span or controlling the story.... eh, semantics xD
I feel bad for Kurtz. It must really suck to be successful in a medium that you either dislike an inordinate amount or just have little to no respect for. For me D&D is a gaming experience like no other that I don't think I could ever be jaded about, but I know everyone has different experiences.
he's not jaded because he "dislikes or has no respect" for dnd, he's jaded because to him acq inc was something the 3 of them - as friends for over a decade - started together. mike and jerry didn't want to give him an equal share of ownership/seat at the table.
Makes sense, Jerry always gives me strong libertarian vibes so I can see him kicking a friend under the table to not give up those sweet, sweet property rights
Acquisitions Incoporated was directly responsible for my return to D&D.
The only thing Stranger Things did for D&D was make Demogorgon a recognizable name.
No. Stranger Things inspired some 80s retro culture, including an increase in interest in D&D. Some of the people who wrote comments under this video even said it had this effect on them or people they know said this.
Everytime I think about that funky little 2 headed monkey man I think about that show
Not true. I know a couple younger folks who gained an interest in DND because of the show. I do agree that the overall trend of DND wasn’t hugely impacted long term, but it definitely brought some people in.
Acq Inc is what helped me get into d&d.
Zee, this is an interview that Acq Inc fans and PVP fans AND PA fans have wanted for years.
And Scott, thank you for giving your side of this story. it's rare that we get to see the personal element of these decisions.
If I tell people that I play D&D, they ask if I've seen Stranger Things. It doesn't make lay people want to play the game, but it did put it in their subconscious pretty well.
Humblewood: day 1 2,000$ raised of 20,000 goal
Sponsors Zee Bashew
Day 4 130,000$ of 20,00 goal.
"I can't get into critical role" THANK YOU! I come from the same aspect, everything you said, I agree!
Critical Role is dull as an actual play goes, and quite overrated. There are many better ones out there.
Good to know that I'm not alone in that!
Really depends on where you jump into it, and how much patience you have for melodramatic PCs.
It would be cool to see a version of CR, heavily edited for pacing. But I guess that's what the animated series is for.
"Someone can get hit in the face with a sword three times..." HP is an abstraction. You're not getting stabbed in the kidney every time you get hit in DnD. It's nicks, bruises, and glancing blows until that last one that takes you to 0.
I didn't know you would get simply nicked and bruised from a greatsword or a longbow. If someone was stabbed, they would realistically either die or bleed out or at least double over in pain.
@@arealmuffin7399 Have you watched an action movie? Staahhhhp.
The part about the quiet, meaningful moments really got to me. I absolutely agree. Those are always the best parts of DnD. Its why I keep coming back to it time and time again.
Super tragic how the subtext to this episode is how Scott doesn't see when he has everything he wants until it's too late. The theater, the friendships, the creative control and contribution... he had it all and yet somehow tells this story as if it were denied to him. But he was the one who walked away. And he doesn't seem to see it that way.
Hooooof.
Scott never saw his opportunities. He only saw his trials. And then treated everything in a resentful way.
Could you give more context abot that? I am serious.
totally disagree. scott in my opinion had concrete reasons for leaving which he still believes is true
Damn
@@thomaslambert6007 Do you still feel that way? After the k0ickstarter and everything else?
I don't think many people watched stranger things and were inspired to play D&D. It is just the most recent and popular example of D&D in pop culture.
On the other hand, Critical Roll has inspired many of its viewers to start their own games.
anyone who's played a public game or two at a shop can easily notice an influx of new players from CR's audience over the last few yrs. far mor important to the growth of the game then being reference in a tv show.
You are incorrect my friend.
Stranger Thing was a powerful motivator for people to check out D&D.
I really can appreciate Scott's opinion on details, tying up knots and open ends of stories.
Nothing makes the end of a story better than seeing what the results and consequences of the characters choices and actions are. If you play a character and make those choices to either befriend or antagonize an NPC, seeing how they give nuances to your game and little tidbits to context is just satisfying. If this stuff is missing, ending a campaign of D&D or finish reading a book just feels hollow and you can't enjoy it to the fullest extent.
Comic Strips are stories! They are basically a short story put into a more tangible form by adding illustration to the words and replacing the "filling" of a book with pencil lines. I can write that my character punches an orc, but actually drawing it in a way that the punch seems delivered properly, that is hard to do.
I am so happy this was given to us, thank a LOT!
An example of what Scott was talking about with ownership of characters: the voice actress for Sayla Mass, Inoue Yō, form the original Gundam cartoon was unavailable to reprise her role for the sequel, Zeta Gundam, so the writers removed her character from the show.* The idea is both a respect for the voice actress' performance, but also respect for true fans, who would recognize a voice other than Inoue's as belonging to a different character.**
*I think there might be a brief cameo
**Inoue passed away in 2003, and since then they've had to rely upon other voice actresses.
This is interesting but man Scott Kurtz sounds so damn jaded. I understand he was one of the original members of Acq. Inc but he's really not part of it anymore. I don't think he's at all kept up with live play shows nowadays, which is fine but he just feels so removed from what it is now.
If you watched the evolution of PvP and his old posts as he came up into his popularity, he's been pretty jaded since the beginning :\ I don't think it makes him a bad person though, he tries to be kind, but it's part of who he is.
Aq inc is the way I first started getting into D&D. Glad to see this
I think D&D 5e blew up because of it's (in my opinion) the most starter friendly version yet. I think everyone knows of D&D in some way and as "nerd" culture has become more mainstream (especially complex board games) D&D is a natural progression for both people new to the hobby gaming market and veterans of other games like tcg, board games and other table top games like games workshop etc. as veterans dial down their gaming to play with players that are new to the experience, D&D just seems the best game to jump into. Yes stranger things, critical role, AI create interest, but I think the biggest factor is, "hey have you heard of a game called D&D?" "Yeah sure, it's easy"
Anyone catch Critical Role last night? I actually got scared but it was a brilliant Episode.
Acq. Inc. Was how I got into D&D personally.
TH-cam eventually lead me to DND, by virtue of videos saying "Skyrim is not a role playing game, you want an RPG, play DND."
Shrek: table top games are lame!
Various others: agreed!
Then I started watching channels like yours and Puffin Forest. Of course I didn't realize it was blowing up the algorithm, until Dingo Doodles said "so I did a video, and now I'm famous?"
I knew about DnD ten years ago and I was nerdy but I didn't really have that much of an interest in playing. When the Penny Arcade podcast with Scott Kurtz playing the game came out, I got myself into a game immediately. For me it is thanks to Scott, Perkins, Mike, and Jerry that I play DnD.
we are in the third golden age of D&D.
Nice Icon
Probably more of a renaissance
@@PSPHunter96 No, definitely the third Golden Age.
Popular in the 80's and early 90's.
Game died.
Huge resurgence in 3.x.
Lul in 4E.
Slowly becomes a behemoth with 5E.
Miss Binwin and Jims back and forth :(
11:15 Wow, that sort of really explains why he doesn't engage with Critical Role; he shuts down during some of the most intense moments because he assumes he knows what is going to happen (which couldn't be further from the truth). There have been _many_ times, that Critical Role has shown that combat really isn't a given, and "winning" a fight can actually lead to really terrible consequences.
Hell, if 'being taken out of the game because you're rolling dice' is the issue how do you account for the hilarity that ensues on even the most mundane actions because of failed ability checks which is entirely outside of combat? It's his preconceptions as to what actions but most especially combat will entail (eg. that every fight is winnable, or that the outcome is straight forward) that's the issue, not the dice itself. Hopefully he finds (or makes) a system better suited for breaking his preconceptions, cause _that_ is what will suck the fun out of his games real fast unless he specifically seeks out GMs that don't make fair/straight forward fights on purpose.
I think it's also important to remember as a D&D 5e Dungeon Master, is that, by definition, dice are used to determine an uncertain outcome. If there are actions a character takes, of which the outcome is uncertain (such as swinging and hitting a monster in the midst of battle, leaping over a treacherous ravine, or resisting the effects of a poisoned drink), you should roll a dice. But like the example he described about the sleeping guard, a DM should reasonably say (assuming they are invested in the reality of the world) that the character sinks his dagger in his chest and he dies. That is not an uncertain outcome, it is realistically impossible to mess this up unless the creatures heart is deep behind muscles, which in the case of the guard, is not true.
@@neiman7617 honestly, I would say make an attack roll*, but if it hits they're dead regardless of hp (unless we're talking a beast of a creature like you described). Mostly because Nat 1s are a thing and tripping over yourself trying to silently kill someone is a hilarious outcome that _could_ happen (Mr.Magoo style).
Edit: *with a modified AC to accommodate how easy it "should" be to hit them
He comes back and explains this at about the 45 minute mark: most combats in D&D are like the fight scenes in the second matrix or the second Star Wars prequel: these aren't characters, you have no relation to them, they're just guys and you're fighting them because that's what you do in D&D. And that sense of the combat being narratively vapid is what takes him out of the game bc no matter how the fight ends, unless his character dies the encounter just doesn't matter.
I've often been a player and said "guys, we aren't here to kill orcs, we're looking for a magic mirror. If they don't have it lets just give them 10 gp and a sandwich and fuck off and keep moving." But we're here to play D&D, so of course we have to waste 45 minutes butchering these total strangers who don't matter to the plot at all.
@@nicholascarter9158 Yeah, as a GM I'm struggling trying to get my players to engage with things that matter. There is a lot of meta knowledge that assumes outcomes and they can be hard to avoid since we've all been taught what to expect. You build to your players expectations and they play to your building. It's hard to break the cycle.
@Ian Ridgwell As a player, I was in that same boat of not being with other players that all they do is shoot first then ask questions later. I used to do that early on, and, going on two years, I've been trying to find alternative ways based on what I've built to play. And, now, I finally found 2 groups that actually give me that. Sure, there's still some "kill first, THEN figure it out moments," but there's still times where the weapons are sheathed and we legitimately try to figure things out/learn about the world. I think it's just about finding the right folks that are interested in jiving with that idea and what not. And, I super lucked out.
Sorry Zee, but it was alot of fun listening to you struggle with that epic spoiler at the end. Thanks so much for sharing such a rich conversation.
Acquisitions Incorporated got me into D&D via the 4ed podcasts so I would credit them for at least a part of the D&D resurgence. Thanks for the interview!
It was 100% Aquisitions Inc got me back into D&D just before 5e came out. I hadn't played since AD&D.
This was mind-blowing dude, thanks so much for sharing it, I'd love to hear the other two interviews you mentioned.
D&D was going through a resurgence long before Acq Inc. The next generation had grown up and become interested in roleplaying. And suddenly there were two generations coming to every gameCon. It was this resurgence that made it possible for Acq Inc and the Waffle crew to become this new, amazing DnD force in media. I love it!
The Grey Havens are just the place the elves get on the boats. It’s the westernmost point on the continent. The place they sail to is the island that the Valar made for them. There’s kind of overtones of the afterlife, but it’s not. It’s just the place where the elves can bask in the light of the Two Trees and remember the days when the Valar walked among them. Also, Sam DID carry the ring, not just by carrying Frodo. When Shelob stung Frodo and Sam thought he was dead, Sam took the ring because he was going to try to carry on with the mission. He willingly gave it back to Frodo, but Sam did bear the ring so he had the option to sail into the West and end his days among the elves.
Valar is definitely the after life for elves. if they die in middle earth they end up in valar
@@iconocast Valinor* the Valar are the lesser gods/Archangels, they are not a place.
@@iconocast Yes and no. Dead elves end up in the Halls of Mandos, which are situated in Valinor. But Valinor has a huge amount of elves who were born there and never left. Some who were born in Middle-Earth and who's stayed there since close to the first time elves entered the world. And all of them, including those who at the end of the 3rd age/start of the 4th, are very much still alive. However non-elves who go there aren't going to become immortal, or somehow get to stay there after dying.
So this is very interesting, as hearing "creating a character is my favorite part" followed by "I played the same character 10 years" is perplexing. I have not listened to any of his work, and he sounds bored a lot, apathetic even. But when he does get that energy, Like explaining LOTR ringbearers, he's fun to listen to.
When 4e came out and Pennyarcade/Scott/Perkins started their podcast, it is what got me into dnd. I learned how to play from listening to them and started a group, but yeah I think you describe it well. They were the spark. It caught the attention of some and certainly drew in a fanbase, but calling them a spark and Crit Role a powder keg is accurate, Critical Roles current kickstarter is evidence of that.
I feel like Scott doesn't like DnD but instead enjoys interactive story telling. He seems to blame that on the game as opposed to acknowledging the fact that he would enjoy an interactive storytelling session more.
Yeah I got that feeling when he was talking about how they "stop playing d&d" whenever there's combat. Combat shouldn't be as cut and dry as "you win, they lose", it should have lots of opportunities for roleplay, fun circumstances, and character building. A wizard's fireball can collapse part of the tunnel you're going down, or a goblin snatches an important trinket from a player. Maybe your character almost dies to a troll, and they're very cautious when dealing with them from now on. Definitely more than "roll dice until they die".
@@shrubninja6444 agreed, yet he does mention that he gets bored easy. In some instances there is nothing there except rolling out the combat system. A open field without any interactive components,a cave with nothing to note in the empty chamber just as examples.
@@TruthOracle Oh definitely. It's not always going to be some super important narrative fight, but acting like it's always just "Roll dice, kill monster." is a really bad way to look at it.
I don't think this is true though. Critical Role is very much the 'story telling' style of dnd. He calls it performative and says that's not dnd but that's in essense what storytelling in dnd is. Matt paints these vivid pictures of places and people and let's the others play in that sandbox. If Scott enjoys interactive storytelling, he only enjoys it when it's all about himself.
Oh my God! The Doc Holiday scene! It's the ONE THING I remember from that movie. Literally just THAT exchange of dialogue. And I doubt I'll ever forget it. I don't know who you are, Scott Kurtz, but you're a good dude.
Still listening as I post, and so far combat talk is still going. I might be in the minority but I like combat in D&D. Lucked out with a great DM. Combat was real, you knew your character was very likely to die. He encouraged roleplay and character devolpment, but he didn't pull punches. So back up characters were handy or like the time I lost a character I wound up playing a NPC.
Like they said it all depends on your DM.
I have one word for Scott: "Mediation"
This a great concept from White Wolf games where if the Storyteller and the Players are pretty sure where the events of an interaction are going to go, they can mediate the results. I use it in my D&D all the time. It is a great time saver. You can reduce an encounter to negotiation and few dice rolls.
It’s a shame because as Binwin, playing off of Jim darkmagic.. that was some of the best and most hilarious dnd I’ve ever watched. If it hadn’t been for that, I’d have never gotten in to dnd and critical role. Scott just seems like he can’t get past “himself”. If he would not have left acq inc, they may have been able to rival critical role some day. Probably not though.
Scott doesn’t “get” critical role though. He says “la voice actors” like it’s a bad thing. Like because they are voice actors in Hollywood, they aren’t “real” dnd players. I can say with 100% certainty that he never gave critical role a chance. They are dnd players that are also voice actors, not the other way around. They have quite possibly the greatest dungeon master ever, and each player is dedicated to their character, and progressing the storyline in an honest and compelling way.. because they aren’t “putting on a show”, they are playing a game
For fun and we get to watch.
Meh. Scott got a double portion of artistic talent and humor, and a half measure of personality and likability.
CorbieKitaal it was hard to listen to how jaded he was about critical role, I started on other shows but only fell in love with it when CR Pushed it to its performative limits
I think you misinterpreted him, it's not that they *are* voice actors, it's that it sort of makes people think that all D&D is going to be *that* well done. I think? I could also be wrong.
There's different types of D&D players. And Critical Role just doesn't appeal to his tastes. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just his personal taste. And he even admitted that Critical Role is largely responsible for the D&D resurgence. But, there's a lot of new players that get into D&D wanting the "Mercer experience" and that's just too high of a bar for the average DM to compete with.
@@Rathkryn Acc inc. is what got me into dnd at the beginning of 4e. I still read penny arcade back at that time so I was interested in what the hubbub was about with this dnd podcast and gave it a listen, then started my own campaign by learning how to play through them.
I feel like anyone who blames critical role for putting unrealistic expectations on the game needs to get their head out of their ass. My group loves critical role and their style suits us, we play very similarly. Our DM does voices and paints beautiful word pictures, and we all roleplay heavily much like crit role. Are we professional voice actors? No, infact i hate my voice and I don't really do one, but it doesn't stop us from enjoying the experience. Do you have to play this way? No, but anyone who says crit role hurts dnd by somehow glamourizing this style of play, needs to take a step back and re-evaluate themselves.
Scott seems to alienate everyone around him with his jaded and selfish world view. He shits on almost every style of play. The only thing he seems to like about dnd is when its about himself.
Sucks to say, but Scott is just playing the wrong system. D&D is fundamentally a combat system. Everything else was tacked on later. He needs a system like Call of Cthulhu that started as a story telling game.
But Call of Cthulhu is actually great at combat too. I ran a one-shot CoC game the other night with some people whose only experience of TTRPG was a bit of 5E D&D, and they were on the edge of their seats all night. They were used to wading into brawls with multiple enemies and tanking dozens of hits with healers on standby; in my game, one character was nearly killed outright in one hit by a rifle shot and another was badly wounded by being stabbed by an undead servant of Gla'aki. They all survived sane and alive, but it was a gentle introduction by CoC standards.
I think too many aspiring DMs bubble-wrap their players. They get scared about killing player characters because they worry about being branded as adversarial DMs, so they end up encouraging this kind of beer and pretzels, "Whose game is it anyway?" comedy improv style of game with maybe one or two fights a session.
I'd say DnD 5e is much less combat based than DnD 3.5 or Pathfinder.
I agree with the Bubble Wrap from DMs. I want a challenge, and I don't mind dying, because making new characters is fun! :D
Are you kidding? He-Man would smash anyone in GoT!
He does have the power. He's said so himself numerous times.
what a great interview. I miss Scott. I would love to meet him in real life. Keep up the great job, Zee.
Acq Inc is what basically what kept my imagination fresh in D&D while going through that time of my life in my early 20s when people are leaving for college or working. Now that we are more stable, we regularly play.
Stranger things brought the resurgence from those who wont search out crit role or don't have too many nerdy friends. With more media being seen by more, it's become quite easy to explain how dnd would work if, say, GoT was a D&D game. I now have people who said they never would begging to play longer.
Crit Role did the thing g everyone wanted a d was that they found a great middle ground. With voice actors, people can see the show as if it were TV and they can sort of get past the nerdiness when they are seeing the characters and not the Players. Each thing has had it's own personal role in the resurgence...
I got Waaaay too much to say on this whole interview... God I wish I could be there...
Love the content, keep it up! Don’t get discouraged with your low fan base because we love what your making!
7:00 ish Mathew Mercer apologize for creating the Mathew Mercer Effect. Which is the effect of getting rid of DnD players for not roleplaying well enough and expecting the game to be perfect and the DM to never have to touch the rule book & more. (The assumption that all DMs and parties should be Mathew and CR Cast and people getting upset if its not). His apology was basically "ive done this for 12(insert #) years and we did it to practice our voice acting when we were just friends"
Disclaimer: This is how I remember it and IK this is a super late reply
6:14
I too am a character creation addict. I like it more than playing sometimes.
Binwin is why I am playing again after 20 years....
What the actual hell.. I nearly burst out in tears when I heard scott explain the spoiler-y section. That is too good..
Damn, I'm geeking out HARD. Crazy to think I've been reading PvP for two decades now.
Zee you are an excellent host. Kept me engaged. I love Binwin but it's clear that Scott thinks differently than most D&D players.
He does. And yet he brings up some interesting topics.
Maybe an unpopular opinion: I actually think it's a really terrible idea to recommend to a new player to watch Critical Role as a first impressions to D&D. It's something I see people do time and time again, they tell them "Critical Role is truly D&D at its finest, you must watch it", but then these prospective players go watch it and then they go into their first actual game with some friends expecting the stars... and then they get a telescope instead. Critical Role's problem is that it spoils people, it's too good to be true.
that's why you remind them theyre fucking voice actors and youre not and to restrain their expectations, don't blame it on the show lol. my group and I play DnD in the same style as critical role and we have a blast, no it's not the same caliber but so what.
It's a sensible opinion, but I do think Critical Role is DnD at it's finest. You have people engaged in both Role Play and combat and rolling with the punches. Molly dying is a good example of that. Molly's death shaped the M9 and still does. That being said, I think reminding new players that the majority of folks aren't voice actors , or have complex backstories is sensible. However, I think that Critical Role encourages players to be better. New and old.
You have to be be delusional if you think that your first session will be just like something like critical role with professional voice actors and such.
It's also a very narrative game. Which isn't a problem if you're running a narrative game but it's a *big* problem if you're a filthy gamist like myself. 😂
I would recommend Adventure Zone over Critical Roll for new players. It's a much more realistic table
Acq Inc sparked mine and my friends interest in D&D. When I was young it was just one of those things that passed me by and wish I knew about it sooner.
I've not seen Stranger Things You, High Rollers and Puffin Forest got me into Dnd so I don't think it's just that
stranger things was an omen of the resurgence, not a cause
It is weird. I joined a D&D club recently and we had this conversation. The club president actually said the recent resurgence (and growth) of the D&D club was mainly due to Stranger Things. I mean, they hardly play it, it's barely a plot device, but apparently it had a huge impact on many people, so who knows.
Never seen it. No one I know has seen it.
No idea that these Ameritrash are talking about
Stranger Things is an American show set in the 80s where a D&D group has their lives turned upside down when their Wizard finds a real life Narnia portal to what appears to be hell, they meet a girl who is, basically, a warlock, and they fight a monster called the Demogorgin who wants to eat the wizard.
The problem with just glossing over combats like "Ok, they're just goblins, you win" is that the game is designed to take into account lots of LITTLE fights. Sure, you can handle 1 or 2 small bands of goblins, but the tenth such band in a day as you're travelling through their territory starts to become a bit "iffy" if you're keeping track of spells used and such.
Maybe if you made a system where you could trade off an "automatic win" for a small number of hit points and/or spell slots from each character. Then at least they can't just breeze past 100 Goblins or something just because the party encounters them in groups of 2-10 over the course of the day.
DM: OK, you can steamroll these 10 Kobolds at the cost of 5 HP from each meele character and 2 level 1 spell slots or one level 2 spell slot from each caster, or we can play the fight out if you think you can win taking less damage and using less spells.
In response to the Taking Your Character with You thing, I feel like Wrestling is the closest that comes to that kind of ... Meta? thing. Like how Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson owns the character name so he can use it in opposing shows, are even use "The Rock" as his public face.
I got into D&D because of the Capcom videogames "Tower of Doom" and "Shadow over Mystara".
I am serious.
TFS is another good reason why D&D got bigger as well
I began playing D&D in 1983 and I've also had a hard time wrapping my head around this weird popular narrative that the most social game in human history was only played by reclusive loners that never leave their parent's basement. I learned to play while pledging a fraternity in college and this lead to playing a ton of D&D while I was in the Army. Tabletop RPGs are something that everyone should try to play, some should play and that many should not be allowed to play without the supervision of a qualified mental health provider.
I can't speak for the larger culture, but those Acq Inc live games had a tremendous impact on me. I would absolutely give them credit for the new D&D Renaissance.
I was also really sad to hear about Scott's regrets with the Waffle Crew. I totally felt he asked Chris to kill Binwin off and just picked the wrong group to do it with. I wish he could have had one last game with the crew he started with, but there must be actual business considerations there.
Was terribly sad to see Scott leave that group, and I would love to see those bridges repaired.
At what point in the hour-long interview does he explain why he left Acq Inc? Minute please
Acq Inc started it but listening back to those first episodes they’re pretty rough (some of the early PA misogyny doesn’t sit well with me as I’ve gotten older).
I think the Drunks and Dragons podcast got me addicted to real play podcasts. it has so much to do with chemistry between the players. Currently the C-Team stuff is just fantastic.. (better than the current Adventure Zone.. maybe on par with the balance arc at its peak) , but it took a bit to come back around to it.
I miss Kurtz’s earnestness when he was really dialed in but you could tell he had lost interest in his last appearances and just wasn’t enjoying it anymore. It hurt the chemistry.
@@SethThornberry I honestly don't remember the misogyny but it was so long ago, our standards have changed a bit.
These days I feel like Anna, Kate, and Holly are the best parts of the show. They even get the best lines when they guest.
Michael Duff 100% agree with you, the interactions between Strix/Jim & Rosie/..everyone, really, are so much fun.
I agree that Critical Role is the main reason for the resurgence of D&D - it's what got me into it - but I wouldn't write Stranger Things' impact completely.
Everyone I've talked to about playing in person (who have expressed interest in playing) want to because they saw it on the show, and this includes most of my group. There's no doubt it's barely in the show, but it's clearly peaked people's interest- or at least that's what I've experienced as someone who doesn't no anyone who's played before irl until they played with me.
It's evidently different for a lot of others, so maybe my experience is weird, but I do think the fact that you two (and other commenters) are more rooted in the 'd&d community' means you don't see how many people's interest is captured because of the show.
One last ride for Wyatt Earp and his Immortals. Really surprised and pleased he talked about tombstone.
Stranger things got me curious about d&d. Then the vin diesel critical role was my gateway
I would like more of this content, please. You could do it while drawing or animating live, or not... But this content is golden! I don't follow acq Inc but I've read table titans and I love your shorts, so it's all great stuff!
This was a really cool podcast that turned really beautiful with Scott's explanation at the end. I'm so glad I found this. Thank you both.
I like Kurtz's webcomics, and he still holds the crown of "best joke of any pax live DnD show ever" (the one about redshirts)... but god.. this interview is kinda depressing.
I think I need to know more context about his bitterness.
As someone who enjoys both I don't feel like Critical Role is a performance. As someone who started with Pathfinder which led me to seek out for other people's campaigns I feel like the fact they are voice actors is just a bonus. Hell who doesn't try to add some flavor to their character? It makes stuff more fun when the environment feels like it is full of life.
It's absolutely a proformance, I think people here have confused "performance" with "fakeness"
True but if you have watched there have been times that people straight up should not be alive but fudged numbers/had something else happen as they can not kill a character.
Not saying it is a bad thing but the fan base is brutal, but it is about leveraging their own fan bases on Twitter etc.
@@wobblysauce Matthew has said has never and will never fudge dice. Ironically. Even let's say he did. I know a lot of dms that do and only very few that don't. The point of the game is to have fun.
@@TheLockville Yes, He won't... and does not run it as a TPK game, but there are others and choices made where different options were available.
Indeed, as a Dm you are a participant in the adventure/world building etc... some others you are that evil entity, you vs them.
@@wobblysauce Don't see why a game has to risk a TPK all the time to be fun. Survival is not the only challenge in D&D. Also as the DM you *are* the world, and it is your job to have fun, and make sure everyone is having fun. I dislike the concept of abusing the concept of TPK, because it can go overboard very quickly and lose its value if it happens every combat.
Man, I really miss those Binwin days of Acq Inc.
Kurtz has always been a very negative person. Look at what happened between him and WW or Kris Straub. Not surprised he feels this way about CR because they eclipsed him.
Yeah, he comes off as SUPER butthurt about CR being popular. "Oh, it's not DnD, it's a product" - and then he talks about things like narrating the fights improving the game experience - which is stuff Matt does constantly.
What happened between him and Kris?
I've played with a few people that describe their relationship with the game like that - where they like "creating interesting characters" but not much else. It's VERY hard to play with people like that, because they really aren't very interested in playing the game - they just like making characters.
@@dustinb4286 people like that tend to want the game to be all about them. They hoard the limelight when they can but then whine when it's focused on someone else. I feel like his story and Orion Acaba's are similar in that they both seme like seflishly entitled people who alienated everyone around them with their behavior.
Please do more podcasts. Its fun to listening to while working.
Scott Kurtz + Dungeon World. I love the plug for the game. I often feel like it is overlooked for other PbtA games because it sticks to D&D tropes so hard, but for a D&D player who wants a narrative game without being bogged down by drawn out fights, checking rules, and contested dice rolls it’s really a brilliant role playing system for sticking to the fiction and not the mechanics.
Also, “4E is a tactical miniatures game...” best endorsement for 4E ever. This is what the game is.
acquisitions is what got me and my gf into dnd and then I brought it to a few of my friends. To me that a long with critical role and other streamers is what helped demystify dnd for us and make us interested.
Whenever I do travel I use a mechanic called travelers fatigue that basically makes long rests into short rests unless the players bunk down in one spot for like a week or fortify a place so that they feel safe or stay at an inn. Then those short inconsequential combats string together on the road to become kind of like a dungeon. And dungeons & dragons in my opinion only ever works as a dungeon simulator. So anything that doesn't directly relate to being a dungeon simulator needs to be converted into a dungeon simulator on some level or just doesn't function in D&D
That is the best ending for a story I have ever heard.
agreed
I tried to do the thing where I tell the party "there are some goblins, how do you all deal with them?" and went in a circle, they get confused.
its not for everyone or even all encounters. this all depends on what your group is wanting. alot of people enjoy dnd combat for what it is, its mainly just internet contrarians who complain about it and makes it seem like its somehow bad.
That Tombstone piece was such a great discussion of modern storytelling!!
Loved the interview I'm sorry to hear about your falling out with Acq. Inc. Scott. And the world building aspects of stories was something I liked from Bram Stoker's Dracula which made the character fell more real and the world a bit more lived in.
that Binwin created reality could be a religion, and he is the founder/profet
I had an online conversation with a grumpy old man on a 1e /2e site and they were taking credit for 5e success, because dnd started for most of us with Greyhawk. As an old and slightly less senile player I think 5e succeeded because of the play testing and online games that showed in a favorable light the play of dnd. Wil Wheaton had tabletop games and did the dame thing for table top games. Criticism toward acq inc or Critical role is lame, they did promote dnd and people have come in part to 5e because of them.
This was an incredible and enlightening interview. You go Scott.
I got interested in D&D thanks to watching the cartoon from the 80s on VHS when I was in kindergarten back in 2007 while waiting on the bus.
Scott is right, live D&D for the consumption of viewers started with Acquisitions Incorporated. Even if there were others before, they drew the first a huge audience. I absolutely love Critical Role, but nothing would be cooler than if Scott returned to Acq. Inc. Jeremy Crawford is killing it as a DM, but its too intermittent now. I would love to see Scott, Jerry, Mike, and Chris come together again. As much as I've tried, I just can't seem to get into C-Team
I personally prefer Critical Role to Acq. Inc., but I would never have found Critical Role if it weren't for Wil Wheaton burning to death in an acid pit. After all of this, I am now part of 3 DnD campaigns, (1 where I DM) and a handful of other RPG one shots. This new age of RPG is something to behold, and I don't think it would be the same without Scott, Jerry, Mike, and Chris.
Too intermittent? They have more pax shows than they ever did a few years ago, aside from the single stint where they all got together for a weekly game for a series this is the most Acq-Inc we have had.
where are the other interviews! we want to hear them! :)
29:15 the dirt you`re looking for 👍
I did not expect to have the feels....
I wanna say what sparked interest for me was adventure zone, tho I started out listening to aqc. Inc first.
Thank you for this! Absolutely amazing. Love Scott and SO wonderful to hear his voice and laughter again!
Let's go deeper! She reaches the Forever Stone in game, which is now reality again due to the unweaving of the spell, but like the original story, her friends have perished. She knows what she must do. She wishes is was just a story.
And then, she becomes a web comic.
I came to D&D because of Stranger Things... My daughter saw the show and we all watched it together, then she wanted to play D&D badly enough to ask for it for christmas. I had no D&D experience, but jumped in with both feet to DM a game for her and her cousins (as you do for your kids) . Her interest dropped off due to too much reading and math that she gets her fill of in school (6th grade) but my wife and I found it interesting and have been playing for a year and a half now. Critical role didn't come to our attention until after we had been playing around with D&D for about a month.
I think the path to D&D for us was... Lord of the rings->All fantasy content->Renaissance Festivals->Larping->world of warcraft->other fantasy computer games->Game of Thrones->other fantasy tv shows->Stranger Things->D&D->you tube D&D content
Stranger Things may not be the reason D&D has resurgence it's definitely put it out there to communities outside of the internet, the 'in' crowd.
Recently at work I've been talking with colleagues after rumour got out that I played DnD, most of the people I spoke to about it had an idea of DnD because it was "That game they played in stranger things," while it may not have played a huge part in the story of the show was still present and brought attention to those who might not even be reasonably interested in tabletop games.
Critical role is something I love dearly and have been watching since late 2015, and while it is incredibly popular I think outside of internet circles it isn't known while 'that show on Netflix' is.
I think you nailed it 😁
Critical Role will become more meaningful to people outside the hobby once the Amazon show launches.
Hmm. This is an interesting conversation so far. I hope you do more of these.
I miss the Jim and Binwin banter. X
I mis Aeofel Elrohmane
I have to admit, I'm not always a fan of Kurtz's writing, but that Forever Stone plot idea is pretty great.
ummm...sam is a ringbearer because he ACTUALLY carried the ring, when he thought frodo was dead.
it's a metaphor thing
Honestly, the story about Scotts Dad and him explaining Sam being a ring bearer was tugging at the heartstrings.
A large part of the D&D resurgence was an evacuation of other forms of entertainment coupled with D&D being everything they left was not personal,interactive,social and not stifling imagination.The good build your own story kit.
This is unexpected, I was prepared for a story telling animation on D&D. I instead got an interesting look into the renascence of D&D. Love this surpise interview, great stuff!
Side note, shows and animations characture of D&D that conserned me the most as an recent player in D&D, had to be the rules lawering. Every time you see these things on television break down into a fight.
5E has been a blast and ive yet to see a single fight about rules between a GM and player!
As for my arival I more took interest in D&D because of the jocks coming into our thieftem and saying nerdy shits cool.
So I wanted to pay respects to the Originatal Video game, the tabletop pen and paper RPG, responsible for video games and story telling there in.